Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Look at the performance numbers and pilot reports from those who flew the P-38 and you may find it is not overmodeled, nor is it in the "easy mode".
EVERY plane in AH is "easy mode" compared to the real thing. If you don't understand that then you are beyond reason. NONE of the P-38's nasty compressibility problems are modelled, you don't really need the dive brake in AH since you can trim all planes out of compressed dives. In AH the only thing that happens is that the controls stiffen up. In real life it was a lot worse:
Compressibility occurs when the P-38 entered dives stated above 20,000 ft. The airflow would be "splashed" over the leading edge of the wing instead of the usual smooth airflow. The splashed air would approach the sound barrier (not the aircraft itself, but rather the speed of the air flowing over the wing), thus causing a shockwave effect on the trailing edge. This would render the controls inoperable, leaving the pilot without any control of the aircraft. Two possibilities would then ensue. Either the aircraft would slow as it descended into denser air closer to the ground and the pilot would regain control and pull out of the dive. Or in some cases, the P-38 would simply disintegrate. Many pilots would lose their lives when they inadvertently entered a steep dive, or when performing dive tests.
Tony Levier described compressibility as, "It resembled a giant phantom hand that seized the plane and sometimes shook it out of the pilot's control." George Gray wrote in a history of the NACA, "The behavior was new to pilots, terrifying, baffling. Several men, in putting this two-engine fighter through its diving maneuvers, underwent the experience: A sudden violent buffeting of the tail accompanied by a lunging and threshing about of the place, as though it were trying to free itself on invisible bonds, and then the maddening immobility of the controls, the refusal of the elevators to respond to the stick." Use of elevator trim would sometimes bring the P-38 out of a dive before destruction. Sometimes the P-38 would begin to tuck under and begin to come out of the dive upside-down. Levels of stress on the airframe were staggering.
Would you like this behaviour modelled if you forget to deploy your dive brakes? Didn't think so.
And the link you posted corroborates my point of view that the P-38 was unsuited for operation in the ETO and was unsuccessful in the fighter role:
With a large proportion of Pacific and Med P-38 operations flown at medium to low altitudes, Lockheed and Allison had little operational experience with the aircraft at high altitude and low ambients and this was quickly revealed. The Allisons misbehaved quite consistently, 'throwing rods, swallowing valves and fouling plugs' while the intercoolers often ruptured under sustained high boost, and turbocharger regulators froze at 10 in. or 80 in. of boost, the latter often resulting in catastrophic failures. Even with the arrival of the P-38J, engines and turbochargers continued to fail. The new intercooler/oil cooler design was actually too efficient and the enlarged radiators became a new problem. Fuel too, was a source of trouble, it is believed by many knowledgeable people that the majority of fuel used in Britain was improperly blended, the anti-knock lead compounds coming out of solution (separating) in the Allison's induction system at extreme low temperatures. This could lead to detonation and rapid engine failure, especially at the higher power settings demanded for combat.
To aggravate these problems, inadequate cockpit heating resulted in severe pilot frostbite, while the Luftwaffe quickly learned about the compressibility problems in dives, with German pilots evading the P-38s by executing a split-S at high speed. The initial roll rate was not spectacular and the easily recognized planform provided the Luftwaffe with yet another advantage to play.
Poor serviceability and engine problems meant that initially 50 or less aircraft were available for such missions, including the first escorts over Berlin, and therefore the 55th and later also 20th FG usually fought the JGs outnumbered between three to one and five to one, as noted previously. The large number of engine failures deep inside enemy airspace exacerbated the problem, and the aggregate exchange rate, accidents inclusive, dropped to about 1:1.5 in favour of the Lightning by 1944. Aircrew morale dropped, moreso due to the large number of single engine landing accidents, thus further damaging the aircraft's reputation. The technical problems were not resolved until the introduction of the P-38J-25-LO, by which time the 8th had decided that the new Merlin powered P-51B/C was a better choice for the mission.
The LW fighters could disengage at will, and a 1:1.5 loss ratio against the LW when they were concentrating on the bombers ... not very impressive compared to the P-47 and P-51.
Despite these difficulties the 55th did well on a number of sorties during this period. On the 3rd November, 1943, the 55th in concert with the experienced 4th, 56th and 78th FGs clashed with the elite JG 1. The 55th accounted for 7 Luftwaffe fighters of the 13 claimed. On the 25th November, 1943, 4 FW-190s were claimed for the loss of one P-38H, one of the Focke-Wulfs belonging to Major J. Seifert (an "expert" with 57 kills), Gruppenkommandeur of II/JG26. Other sorties were much less successful, and heavy losses were suffered on a number of occasions.
Of course there are pilot quotes like these:
"Nothing, to these pilots, after the hard winter of 1943-44 could be more beautiful than a P-38L outrolling and tailgating a German fighter straight down, following a spin or split-S or whatever gyration a startled, panicked and doomed German might attempt to initiate. You just couldn't get away from the P-38L. Whatever the German could do, the American in the P-38L could do better."
"The P-38J25-LO and P-38L's were terrific. Roll Rate? Ha! Nothing would roll faster. The dive recovery flaps ameliorated the "compressibility" (Mach limitation) of earlier Lightnings. An added benefit of the dive recovery flaps was their ability to pitch the nose 10-20 degrees "up" momentarily when trying to out turn the Luftwaffe's best, even when using the flap combat position on the selector. Of course the nose "pitch-up" resulted in increased aerodynamic drag, and must be used cautiously. High speed is generally preferred over low speed in combat situations. Properly flown, the Fowler flaps of the P-38 allowed very tight turning radius."
Rather nice quotes from pilots who obviously liked the P-38L, however the " You just couldn't get away from the P-38L. Whatever the German could do, the American in the P-38L could do better" and the "Roll Rate? Ha! Nothing would roll faster" should be taken as enthusiastic boasting common to all pilots.
This quote is far more telling of the P-38 experience in the ETO:
"The P-38 was a large fighter with much mass. 52' wingspan and long, wide-chord ailerons contributed to slow response along the longitudinal axis of the early airplanes. The higher the indicated airspeed, the slower the response. At very high IAS it took plenty of muscle to roll the airplane. I don't believe that a joystick would have improved matters over the wheel. The Luftwaffe soon recognized the slow roll rate of the "H" and early "J" model Lightnings and used it to their advantage. It also learned of the dive restrictions caused by "compressibility" and used that advantage also.
Sometime in the development of the P-38, the design engineers must have realized that P-38's didn't have great roll capability. When Tony Levier, Lockheed test pilot, visited the 55th FG, he heard a common thread of complaints from the pilots. Cold cockpit, poor "flick" roll rate, and inability to dive after the Bf-109's and FW-190's from high altitude.
The P-38L did not enter service until June 1944. At that time the LW had long since lost the air war and apart from a few Experten, fielded nothing but inexperienced pilots whom were facing daunting numerical odds. Any statistics from this period of the war is more or less useless. Anecdotal evidence from the few LW pilots that survived the war suggests that they had little problem with the P-38 and P-47 ... it was the P-51 they had trouble beating.
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This has begun to take far too much of my time. I've far better things to do. I'm wasting time here I could spend flying and improving my woefully inadequate skills and talents. You guys can have it. No amount of arguement will change anyone's position.
Doh! So I've written all this for nothing?
I'm sure your skills will improve to the point of loving the AH P-38 as much as you love the real (or perceived real
) one. Ask Ack-Ack to let you in on his secrets ... on second thought don't! Having one Ack-Ack in the MA is enough for me to get jumpy when I see a knit 38. Good luck in the MA.
