Author Topic: A few questions for Americans  (Read 4140 times)

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2003, 04:18:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz
Your avatar is great, can you send me a poster of it for my living room, please? :D


Regards Blitz







Sure, but I'm a greedy capitalist.  It's gonna cost you $25 plus shipping.

Offline Imp

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 269
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2003, 04:23:40 PM »
:eek:
« Last Edit: May 01, 2003, 07:35:04 AM by Imp »

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2003, 04:26:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Imp


I know its too much to ask people to act like respectable adults so Ill just stop posting about it.


Thank God.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2003, 04:53:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Imp
Tumor, when I say insult I mean the kind of crap that made HT post a sticky. HT knows that this game as an international player base.

This kind of horse **** as no place here or anywhere. Its racist crap. If I was French and saw these threads id be insulted.

I saw the same type of crap on Fighter Ace's newsgroup. Most boards seem to have this kind of stuff on it. Im really tired of it.

I believe people should be able to express themselves without being insulted. This is a discussion board not an insult board.

Im only asking peole to stop posting such crap.

I know its too much to ask people to act like respectable adults so Ill just stop posting about it.


What I find amusing about this is that people like you never post asking anyone to stop insulting the U.S. Never. Yet I constantly see the U.S. referred to as war mongers, oil barons, bullies, and a host of other insults. No matter what else happens, the minute I get into a discussion regarding Iraq, the UN, the French, or anything of that nature, I hear the same tired bulltoejam insults. Bush the cowboy, Bush the oil baron, Bush the monkey brained, ignorant ugly Americans, war monger Americans. I NEVER hear YOU, or anyone else complain about that!!


So let me tell you what I think about your incessant whimpering about Americans insulting everyone else: WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. You get the squauling caterwalling Yeropeons and the rest to stop hurling their toejam, then we'll talk. Otherwise STFU. Having been insulted for a couple of decades by a bunch of holier than thou hypocritical JACKprettythangES from "the continent", who've had more wars of aggression for the sake of empire building than the U.S. could in the next two hundred years, I've had enough of the bulltoejam. Now you know how the other side feels.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline OIO

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2003, 05:05:08 PM »
sry strafo, you can copy and paste the post on notepad, it should take the caps off it.

S oRrY  ;)

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #140 on: April 29, 2003, 08:07:16 PM »
Question #1:

Our Constitution does no apply to foreign nations. France, as it is prone to do, has a false sense of importance. Moreover, they seem to relish being the square peg. Fine, let them think of themselves as important and they can walk any path they as a nation desire. However, they need to understand that every action has consequences, sometimes positive, other times decidedly negative.

Clearly, the French government has been motivated by financial reasoning. Any concern for the Iraqi people or American cencerns was easily swept aside by the almighty Euro. Billions in oil deals was sufficient to throw old alliances onto the trash pile. Amazingly, many French citizens complained that the US was going into Iraq for the oil. Yet, that oil was the primary reason their own government worked so hard to sabotage America in the UN. Considering that we had 200,000 military personnel in Kuwait, isn't it probable that if oil was the motive, the US would simply occupy Kuwait and just take their oil?

In recent days, documents establishing that France supplied the Iraqis with sensitive intelligence provided by the USA have surfaced in Iraq. France not only leaked conversations between Blair and the Italian Prime Minister, they passed along much of the content of American diplomatic discussions. It also appears that France supplied Iraq with intelligence on US war plans. How many American soldiers died due to this? Was Saddam able to avoid US strikes because the French tipped them off in advance? We will soon know the depth of French duplicity. When we do, the consequences will be proportional to their deceit. Bush is not likely to forgive and forget when it comes to behavior this far outside the borders of a "friendly disagreement". See Question #3 for further elaboration.

Question #2:

Think for a minute how the US reacted to the 9/11 attacks. The simple fact that the entire Arabian peninsula is not a giant glass factory indicates immense restraint. Anyone with even the slightest comprehension understands that Saudi Arabia directly bankrolls virtually all Islamic terrorism. The fact that the US has announced a complete pullout from Saudi Arabia should send shivers down the spine of the Saudi mafia. Count on unrestrained pumping of Iraqi oil, flooding the market with the intent of crashing crude oil prices. Count on the Saudis to squeal like pigs over the loss of revenue. Minor payback in my estimation. Someone once suggested targeting several MIRVs on Meca for the purpose of political blackmail. IE, the support of terror leading to additional attacks on the US, especially with WMD, will result in making Meca so hot that the desert will feel like the north pole in comparison. This may be an extreme measure, but does anyone doubt that it would be effective at causing the Islamic world to seriously try to control militant fundamentalists?

Before anyone whines, do they think for a second that Islamic terrorists would not target sacred Hebrew and Christian shrines in Israel with nuclear weapons if they had them? Rumor says that Israel had foiled an attempt to set off a radioactive "dirty" bomb at the Wailing Wall during the past 3 years. Then again, it is estimated that Israel has up to 200 nuclear weapons and a delivery system capable of ranges in excess of 10,000 miles. Had Iraq fired biological or chemical warheads into Israel during the Gulf War of 1991, there was no promise that Israel would not have responded with nuclear weapons. The US knew that, and so did Iraq. Ever wonder what really drove Egypt and Jordan to the peace table? There was far more than international political pressure in play. Even Syria has limited its behavior to support for Hamas and Hezbulah, with absolutely no obvious sabre rattling.

But, let's get back to the question.

Any nation connected to the 9/11 attacks has to realize that their necks are perilously close to the chopping block. All other American political considerations take a back seat to the security of the American people. Any nation worth a damn would adopt that same posture under similar circumstance. The big difference is that the US has the muscle to back up that posture. The right to self defense is not limited to the borders. Had France and Great Britain conducted a military intervention against Germany in 1938, it is entirely possible that the depth and scope of the Second World War would have been avoided.

Question #3:

Germany did not go out of its way to aid Iraq against a supposed ally. By and large, neither did Russia. I can respect a difference of opinion. I cannot tolerate treachery, and neither can most Americans.

France has always been right there when she needed us. Will the US be there the next time France calls? Time will tell. For the short term, American anger will be felt in the average citizen's refusal to purchase French products. Greater, more transcending consequences may come to pass in terms of a forever damaged friendship and the knowledge that trust has been erased from this relationship.

Known for its many contributions to art, bad form has been elevated by the French government to unique art form, not seen since the days of Napoleon III and France's meddling in Mexico during our Civil War.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #141 on: April 30, 2003, 01:41:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Question #1:

Our Constitution does no apply to foreign nations. France, as it is prone to do, has a false sense of importance. Moreover, they seem to relish being the square peg. Fine, let them think of themselves as important and they can walk any path they as a nation desire. However, they need to understand that every action has consequences, sometimes positive, other times decidedly negative.
 

Our Roquefort maker now that since years.
Quote

Clearly, the French government has been motivated by financial reasoning. Any concern for the Iraqi people or American cencerns was easily swept aside by the almighty Euro. Billions in oil deals was sufficient to throw old alliances onto the trash pile. Amazingly, many French citizens complained that the US was going into Iraq for the oil. Yet, that oil was the primary reason their own government worked so hard to sabotage America in the UN. Considering that we had 200,000 military personnel in Kuwait, isn't it probable that if oil was the motive, the US would simply occupy Kuwait and just take their oil?

If the only motivation is the money how can you explain    we were not backing the Us when we make at minima 40 times more money with the US ?
And koweit oil reserve are very low compared to the Iraqui reserves.

Quote
In recent days, documents establishing that France supplied the Iraqis with sensitive intelligence provided by the USA have surfaced in Iraq. France not only leaked conversations between Blair and the Italian Prime Minister, they passed along much of the content of American diplomatic discussions. It also appears that France supplied Iraq with intelligence on US war plans. How many American soldiers died due to this? Was Saddam able to avoid US strikes because the French tipped them off in advance? We will soon know the depth of French duplicity. When we do, the consequences will be proportional to their deceit. Bush is not likely to forgive and forget when it comes to behavior this far outside the borders of a "friendly disagreement". See Question #3 for further elaboration.

The document in question is hightly questionnable.
Especially when found by a Murdoch minion and when Murdoch has  conflict of interrest with the Lagardere group.
Previously each time their was such a conflict a french bashing campaign was started by the Sun for example ...
I don't believe in coincidences.


Quote
Question #2:

Think for a minute how the US reacted to the 9/11 attacks. The simple fact that the entire Arabian peninsula is not a giant glass factory indicates immense restraint. Anyone with even the slightest comprehension understands that Saudi Arabia directly bankrolls virtually all Islamic terrorism. The fact that the US has announced a complete pullout from Saudi Arabia should send shivers down the spine of the Saudi mafia. Count on unrestrained pumping of Iraqi oil, flooding the market with the intent of crashing crude oil prices. Count on the Saudis to squeal like pigs over the loss of revenue. Minor payback in my estimation. Someone once suggested targeting several MIRVs on Meca for the purpose of political blackmail. IE, the support of terror leading to additional attacks on the US, especially with WMD, will result in making Meca so hot that the desert will feel like the north pole in comparison. This may be an extreme measure, but does anyone doubt that it would be effective at causing the Islamic world to seriously try to control militant fundamentalists?

Nothing to add .
For me this is THE reason of Us intervention in Iraq.

Quote
Before anyone whines, do they think for a second that Islamic terrorists would not target sacred Hebrew and Christian shrines in Israel with nuclear weapons if they had them? Rumor says that Israel had foiled an attempt to set off a radioactive "dirty" bomb at the Wailing Wall during the past 3 years. Then again, it is estimated that Israel has up to 200 nuclear weapons and a delivery system capable of ranges in excess of 10,000 miles. Had Iraq fired biological or chemical warheads into Israel during the Gulf War of 1991, there was no promise that Israel would not have responded with nuclear weapons. The US knew that, and so did Iraq. Ever wonder what really drove Egypt and Jordan to the peace table? There was far more than international political pressure in play. Even Syria has limited its behavior to support for Hamas and Hezbulah, with absolutely no obvious sabre rattling.

But, let's get back to the question.

Again no more to add.

Quote
Any nation connected to the 9/11 attacks has to realize that their necks are perilously close to the chopping block. All other American political considerations take a back seat to the security of the American people. Any nation worth a damn would adopt that same posture under similar circumstance. The big difference is that the US has the muscle to back up that posture. The right to self defense is not limited to the borders.  

Agree
Quote
Had France and Great Britain conducted a military intervention against Germany in 1938, it is entirely possible that the depth and scope of the Second World War would have been avoided.

Short reasonning , and you forgive completly the reason why GB and France didn't do such an intervention : death toll of WWI was so hight that they were very reluctant to enter a war.
Quote
Question #3:

Germany did not go out of its way to aid Iraq against a supposed ally. By and large, neither did Russia. I can respect a difference of opinion. I cannot tolerate treachery, and neither can most Americans.

France has always been right there when she needed us.

Except 3 27 and 27 april 1954 for example or Suez ...
Quote

Will the US be there the next time France calls? Time will tell. For the short term, American anger will be felt in the average citizen's refusal to purchase French products. Greater, more transcending consequences may come to pass in terms of a forever damaged friendship and the knowledge that trust has been erased from this relationship.

To bad you chose to listen to only one voice.
Do you realy think we need to be erased from the map ?
Quote

Known for its many contributions to art, bad form has been elevated by the French government to unique art form, not seen since the days of Napoleon III and France's meddling in Mexico during our Civil War.

should I recall that "Badiguet"(*) was a dictator ?



(*) Napoleon III

Offline Imp

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 269
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #142 on: April 30, 2003, 07:10:42 AM »
:eek:
« Last Edit: May 01, 2003, 07:35:29 AM by Imp »

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2003, 08:13:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Imp
Where in my post did I say it was ok to bash americans?

Nowhere, so stop throwin accusations.

What I see the most is French bashing, thats why I use them as an exemple.


I agree with most of what straffo said.


As for Bush: If he had earned is position I would respect him alot more. Without is dad he would not be where he is right now.

I know it, you know it, he knows it,  everybody knows it.


At least straffo and friends have the balls to openly crap on the US.  You just pretend you aren't.  It isn't quite as effective.  Next time you troll, make it blatant.  Look how well Nuke does it.

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2003, 08:24:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
At least straffo and friends have the balls to openly crap on the US.  You just pretend you aren't.  It isn't quite as effective.  Next time you troll, make it blatant.  Look how well Nuke does it.


I know curiosity killed the cat .... but sometime I cannot resist.

Depending on the proper definition of "crap" (wich I'm not sure ton know)
I pretend having independant though and I'll recognize achievement made by the US and error/misjudgement.

In a word even if actually I'm in a very defensive position because of the actual situation I'm not ever going to spit on the grave of a US soldier(*) just because some  disagreement.

My "crap" as you say is the result of the action of some posters here (like you when you falsely pretended my country was actively supporting terrorism.) and result of my education.

I'm different,I don't have the same background nor language and I'll continue to voice my opinion even if it's not the current admitted (by the masses) opinion.



PS I dunno if this post as exactly the meaning my french brain tried to put inside but writing the same post in my native language won't have been read ever ...


(*) it's quite easy I've only 1 hour drive to do.

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2003, 08:47:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I know curiosity killed the cat .... but sometime I cannot resist.

Depending on the proper definition of "crap" (wich I'm not sure ton know)
I pretend having independant though and I'll recognize achievement made by the US and error/misjudgement.

In a word even if actually I'm in a very defensive position because of the actual situation I'm not ever going to spit on the grave of a US soldier(*) just because some  disagreement.

My "crap" as you say is the result of the action of some posters here (like you when you falsely pretended my country was actively supporting terrorism.) and result of my education.

I'm different,I don't have the same background nor language and I'll continue to voice my opinion even if it's not the current admitted (by the masses) opinion.



PS I dunno if this post as exactly the meaning my french brain tried to put inside but writing the same post in my native language won't have been read ever ...


(*) it's quite easy I've only 1 hour drive to do.


First, I never falsely pretended France was supporting terrorism.  I posted links showing where OTHER people showed France was supporting terrorism.  Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

Second, HA!  I knew you couldn't resist reading my posts.  Keep it up, and you'll lose your coveted "ignored by" status.

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2003, 08:54:47 AM »
Quote
A few questions for Americans
1. Why France is facing US sanction for not joining the coalition of the "Willing"?

If they take actions against France then they are coercing them to do what they want. Thats against youre country's constitution which gives every man the right to his opinions and to choose what he wants to do without anyone pressuring him.

Why arent the French given that right? (I know they arent american citizens.)


2. What gives President Bush the right to make other countries do what he wants them to do by force?


3. Why arent Germany, Russia and other countries who didnt join getting the same treatment.


You guys claim to be for freedom but you dont give the freedom to choose to your allies.

Thats sounds hypocritical from where I sit.

Just something to think about. You can disagree you you want just please dont post personnal attacks (they will be ignored or ridiculed).


First question: Exactly what "sanctions" are you referring to?
Second question: What "force" are you referring to?
Third question: What "treatment" are you referring to?
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #147 on: April 30, 2003, 08:56:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
First, I never falsely pretended France was supporting terrorism.  I posted links showing where OTHER people showed France was supporting terrorism.  Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

Second, HA!  I knew you couldn't resist reading my posts.  Keep it up, and you'll lose your coveted "ignored by" status.


Sometime is not always if I'm not mistaken ?

Offline Martlet

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4390
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #148 on: April 30, 2003, 09:04:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Sometime is not always if I'm not mistaken ?


Hah, I've been forced to update your status.

Offline SLO

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2548
A few questions for Americans
« Reply #149 on: April 30, 2003, 09:08:35 AM »
insults.....insults you say.

ok....


big fat bellybutton MacDonald eatin double cheese with freedom fries and DIET coke dweeb americans suck ass......


man I love insults......

straffo your french.....so you suck...cause your french:D

I suck cause I'm French too....but see..... I suck better then you...cause I'm French Canadian


but americans suck much better then we do....they suck bigger and better things.....

so all in all everyone sucks to a certain level...determining which level of suckiness we belong too is an endeavor you dweebs will have too agree upon.....

so in closing....

you suck dweeb.....French or American