Author Topic: P-47  (Read 6018 times)

Offline Stegahorse

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P-47
« on: May 01, 2003, 07:32:46 PM »
This is Directly off the Thunderbolt Pilots assn message board:
 
A p-47 did a mock dog fight with a p-38 and won hands down. A p-47 could shoot down a p-51. And fighting the bf109 and the fw190 no problem. If an airplane is only as good as its stats well no more has to be said. It was an airplane that could to battle in any theater against anytang the enemy could put against it.
 
http://www.p47pilots.com/cfm_MessageBoards.cfm?pageMode=READMSG&messageboardid=2&messageboarddetail_id=336

I have always believed that the Jug is modeled incorrectly.
The P-47-M was the one that weighed in at 19,900 lbs and that N model was over 20,000 lb. The D's were maxed out at 16,500.
And, the F-u4 Corsair used the same engine, was about the same size and only 800 lbs lighter (empty) than the P-47. It was considered unsuitable for Euro Air combat, and yet it outperfoms everything , especially the T-bolt. The Corsair's and Evansville Built Thunderbolt's wing ends were built by the same company in Evansville. Their primary manufacturing was the Higgin's Boats.
It just ain't right!!!
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Offline ra

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P-47
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2003, 07:38:59 PM »
Learn to fly the P-47.

Offline Kweassa

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P-47
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2003, 09:06:21 PM »
Stegahorse, "It just ain't right!!!" seems a little bit vague.

 The P-47 we have is mostly and comfortably 'up to the stats' in my opinion - it's a fast plane when high, not so inspiring in maneuverability but dives and rolls great, great firepower, stable gun platform, awesome A2G ordnance...

 The only factor, but the largest factor that the P-47s have so limited success in AH is because basically the MA is a chaotic mid/late 1945 arena with monster planes flying around. Pulled out of historical context, a good plane might achieve so little.

 ...
 
 Maybe you should try some of the CT setups. Although there are limitations, the historical planesets result in some interesting observations.

 For instance, the ever-so-damned N1K2 is almost helpless, when they are solely alone to fight a band of organized 1944~45 USN planes, in PAC setups of the CT. The USN pilots usually fly by "Historical" agenda - come in high, don't lose speed, and run away like a greased pig when things get tough - and since there aren't any La-7s to catch running planes and force them to turn, even the N1K2s are usually in a diabolical situation where it is totally passive against incoming USN onslaught by those awesom F4U-1, F4U-4s and F6F-5s. A slow plane, which is incapable of forcing the fight to its terms - that's what the N1K2 is reduced to, in the CT.

 Another example is the Hurricane MkIIC, Spitfire MkV, Bf109F-4 and the Fw190A-5 - in North Africa setups. F-4s are like Tempests of this era, and since nothing can catch them in time, they almost totally dictate the fight. Organized bands of 190A-5s slaughter SpitMkVs in North Africa setups - something probably unseen in the MA.

 Also, in the 1944 Rhein setups, organized bands of P-47s are versatile, and very hard to fight against even for superior planes like the Bf109G-10 and the Fw190D-9.

 Since the CT has limited number of pilots, unlike the MA, a loss of even a single friendly plane has a powerful impact. In the MA, hundreds of planes get shotdown in a single area, as the pilots keep upping the planes and step into the ring. In the MA, when you win the engagement, about 2 minutes later more enemies head towards your way. Unless you are in a monster plane yourself, you will be caught low and slow. However, in the CT where the numbers are like 20 people for each sides, when a certain side loses local air superiority, it stays that way for long - no instant reinforcements, chaotic battles don't last long. Were it in the MA, even if organized P-47s pilots win the battle against a few superior enemies, they'd be caught low and slow against many more which have upped during the fight.  ......

 ......

 It's mostly about the skill level of the person piloting the P-47, and the historical context of the arena - as long as there are some sort of concessions which force the arena into something that reflects 'history', the P-47s are powerful planes. I love flying the Bf109G-10 - I usually laugh when I meet a La-7 at something like 23k.. however, when I see a P-47 at that altitude, I get nervous, becuase the chances are, judging by the altitude and merge style, it is highly probable that the P-47 pilot is someone who knows his plane very well.

 ...

 Ofcourse.. there are other alternatives.. which I have often thought of, such as increasing perk limitations on late-'44/'45 planes, and forcing the MA into a '43 environment... :D but that, is another story.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2003, 09:13:19 PM by Kweassa »

Offline -ammo-

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P-47
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2003, 09:15:07 PM »
The P-47 in AH is a breath of fresh air in comparison to other games like WB's and IL FB.  It is very capable when flown correctly
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Offline AtmkRstr

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P-47
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2003, 09:32:21 PM »
it's one of the most dangerous planes when it's above you.  No matter how you evade its attacks, any vet pilot has a good chance to hit you with its 8 laser guns.  Also, it's very tough to outrun in that situation. Perhaps that's why it DOES do so well. Look at the kill ratio for the D-11. The D-25 and D-30's stats are lower because they're often used for jabo.

It's my favorite cherry picker.

Offline Steve

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P-47
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2003, 04:04:23 AM »
A well flown 47 is one of the toughest planes to shoot down, IMHO.  I'd love to learn the evasives those guys use...Fantastic flops and barrel rolls.  If I get someone to teach me, I'll  fly that thing full time!
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Offline frank3

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P-47
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2003, 04:36:27 AM »
yep, the trick is just to get at heigh alt (something like 20.000ft)
it'll be much faster and manoeuvrable.
also loading less guns/ammo is a good way to get some chance against a6m's or anything

I love the jug, been flying it for 3 years now ;)

Offline Oldman731

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P-47
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2003, 07:42:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
The P-47 in AH is a breath of fresh air in comparison to other games like WB's and IL FB.  It is very capable when flown correctly

Yup.

- oldman

Offline bozon

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P-47
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2003, 08:21:03 AM »
Jugs are formidable fighters in the MA, even at lower altitudes. The only suspicious thing in the preformance department is that it doesn't out dive anything (as opposed to common belife). Any 190, P-51, La5, will out dive it and spit9 are very hard to catch in a dive unless you go well over 400mph. Zoom climb is no better the "OK" too.
maybe pilot stories were exagereted, perhaps these are the right preformances.

Another thing to concider is that the common jugs, when they were top fighters, were razorbacks with paddle-blade props. Our D11 has't got it and adding one would add ~500fpm to cimb rate and a few much needed mph's, making it the best preforming P47 of the D series.

tried some 109 flying last 2 tours - it's nice but P-47 will not be replaced as my favorite ride.

BRING US D-23 JUGS! :)
Bozon
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Offline F4UDOA

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P-47
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2003, 09:34:18 AM »
I have the AFDU for the P-38F vrs P-47B. I would hardly call it one sided.

The F4U unsuitable for Europe? How so?

Is this a copy of someone elses post? Who are they?

Offline Sancho

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P-47
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2003, 12:39:31 PM »
what ammo said.  You wanna try punishment, try flying the Jug in Il-2 FB or WB.  AH has the most competitive jug I've seen.  It ain't uber or IMO overmodelled by any means.  In fact it can be downright frustrating to fly in the MA sometimes, but it has the means to be flown successfully as a fighter.

Offline Urchin

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P-47
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2003, 01:03:35 PM »
Whew, I thought it was just me that thought the P-47 in IL2:FB was modelled kinda like a flying brick.

Offline CMC Airboss

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P-47
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2003, 01:19:41 PM »
Steg,

Next time you're in the arena, seek out Ammo or Frenchy.  They are usually glad to demonstrate the capabilities of the AH P-47's.  

MiG

Offline Strange

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P-47
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2003, 01:51:06 PM »
I have to agree with Ammo and Sancho.. Really the best way to make a Jug work is to have a wingman.  Thats what I like best about being in this squad.  We 'try' to bring our Jug's home.  

The good thing about a Jug is you can pick your fights if you fly it right. You can decide to leave a fight.  You can out run most anything. Minus the run-90's and ponys.

Jugs rule and all else drools :D

Offline beet1e

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P-47
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2003, 10:05:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
The P-47 in AH is a breath of fresh air in comparison to other games like WB's and IL FB.  It is very capable when flown correctly
Absolutely. One of the reasons I like the Pizza map is because of the high alt conditions where the P47 excels. The only drawback is that because of its weight, its climb rate is somewhat lacklustre.

I enjoyed meeting Gabreski - got an autographed copy of his book.