rshubert, come on over, let's talk..

[Furious]

Originally posted by beet1e
...So what's the REAL reason you don't want to go to the DA? ...

Real reason.  Because in the MA you get to ruin a strat guys fun.  

Not all fun dogfights occur in furballs.  Last night, 201Solo and I foiled a MAW squad base grab by ourselves.  20 or so minutes of very intense fighting.  Lotta fun.

Only changes to the MA I have advocated are:

1.  Change the influence the HQ has over dar.
2.  Rework fuel availability.
3.  Penalize suididal tendency jabos.
4.  On larger maps provide a FT similar to the TT.

Nothing world shattering there.  I would think these things would work in everyones favour.  Except maybe #4, the napoleans would hate that one.

[nopoop]

Ahh the end of vacation, good boards, got some website work done, edited some photos. Back to cracking the nut..

Furious put it best.
1. Change the influence the HQ has over dar.
2. Rework fuel availability.
3. Penalize suididal tendency jabos.

Can't comment on #4 because I'm abreviation challenged. None of it is a big thing, wouldn't ruin anyones fun, would provide more fun in the long run. There's something about logging on finding the fuel porked with no radar that makes "Seinfeld" more paletable.

But that's just me.

My logic meter has run out..

I'm spent..

[Shane]

Originally posted by nopoop
Can't comment on #4 because I'm abreviation challenged.
 

Fighter Town similar to Tank Town.

i.e., Lazs holy grail of an arena within an arena, albeit maybe not as pure as lazs would it it (early war stuff only).

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Revvin
The thing is they just don't 'get it' when it comes to the arena choice open to them or is there another reason? all the grand comparisons to chess and the like and talk of ACM really is'nt what furballs in the MA are all about. It's gangbang the lowest guy, perhaps cherry pick or circle jerk till you die. If it was all about ACM they'd be in the DA but then that would take ACM to fight and perhaps they are too timid to fight without numbers around them so ACM does'nt matter.

[/B]

Again you confuse gangbanging with furballing.  A true furball doesn't involve everyone piling on the lowest guy, and any of the "vets" you belittle would hate to see such a scenario.  It sucks to outnumber someone 20 to 1 as much as being outnumbered by the same margin.  Maybe you don't die as much, but it's boring as hell.

Furballing requires many skills.  Skillful ACM certainly helps, as do situational awareness and effective wingman tactics.  That's not to say that jaboing or bombing or whatever floats your boat don't take skill and dedication; I'm sure they do.  However, you're creating this utterly false image of furballing and furballers that suits your own argument without regard to the truth.  Honestly, it's as if you've tried it a few times, got gangbanged, and now go all sourpuss about the whole thing.

Why don't furballers just go to the DA?  For the same reason that bombers and tankers don't go there -- people enjoy hanging out in the main arena, shooting the breeze with friends (many of whom might drive tanks, bombers, or whatever and wouldn't go to the DA), seeing their names in the lights, earning a reputation among the largest segment of the community, and going someplace where stats "matter."  Furballers going to the DA represents a classic collective action problem, not some sort of cowardice.  I'm amazed that you and beet1e perpetuate such a silly argument.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Revvin]

I play a little of every role in AH. Last night's squad night for instance my first sortie was in a bomber, then I jabo'd a field and then proceeded to dogfight once my ord was gone and all with a little field porkage and vulching mixed in! Furballs in the MA is just cherry picking or circle jerking apart from maybe the odd time you might come across a 2 vs 2 battle etc when ACM matters.

Why should the general census of players who don't complain about furballers and don't complain against strat move to the DA? it's you guys moaning myself and Beet1e merely pointed out the DA would be more to your liking or is it like to much hard work to click on another arena and not get the attention you crave? The MA will always be the halfway house of AH, stuck between the DA and CT and while the firballers remind those who want a little more realism in AH should go to the CT then so should those furballers take their own advice and go to an arena that suits their needs...the DA.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Furious
Real reason.  Because in the MA you get to ruin a strat guys fun.  

Furious - thank you. I appreciate your honesty. You're the only one who had the balls to admit it, and I will stop asking the question now. Nopoop, would you like to write down the answer given by furious, just in case someone else asks you why you don't want to go to the DA? Everyone: Do you now see why the furballers have been so reluctant to give an honest answer?

DMF -

It sucks to outnumber someone 20 to 1 as much as being outnumbered by the same margin. Maybe you don't die as much, but it's boring as hell.

I agree with that, and even posted a thread about it. I never join "missuns" because I don't like the steamroller element, and because they almost always involve TYPH or LA7. Other than that, I don't think furballing is the black art you furballers seem to think it is, and I agree with Revvin. The "furballing" films I have seen have been nothing more than numerical supremacy vulchfests in which the vulchers were in no danger at all.

I don't want to see Nopoop's "experimentation/nudges". All through these discussions, the fingerbobs like Lazs and Nopoop have been advocating subtle changes to make the life of the jabo and buffer more difficult, and the life of Mr. Furball more easy. The justification for increasing hangar "hardness" or bomb "softness" or for perking bombs weighing 100lb or more (ie most bombs) is that the effect of a suicide pork n auger dweeb can have is currently disproportionate to his level of skill, and that it's "ruining the fun" for a lot of other people. What the hell do you think happens when the furball crowd sit on top of an airfield so that the enemy cannot take off? And don't give me that gangbang v furball crap.

I could say that HTC should increase bullet "softness". After all, there are a lot of no-skill dweebs who do nothing more than vulch, vulch, vulch. Where's the skill in that? And they ruin a lot of guys' fun by preventing them from taking off in much the same way as a fuel porker ruins your fun by limiting you to 25% fuel. But oh! Imagine the outcry if bullet "hardness" were to be reduced for any round more lethal than a .303. No, we wouldn't want that kind of experimentation/nudge now, would we?

[lazs2]

Why should furballers go anywhere?  It appears that HTC is making a place for the building battlers to "go".   The best reason for not going to the DA is that there is no numbers there.  I like numbers... You don't get it because you play the ai portion of the game.  I am interested in the human factor.

As for an arena within an arena and how it is different from two seperate arenas... You that dense?   Try going back and forth between the CT and the MA if you want an easy lesson in what is "different"  try to communicate between the two and track what is happening in both arenas so that you can take off from the field (in either arena) that best suits what you want to do... try to communicate with people in both arenas at the same time.

And... how will we ever get early war planes to be useful without the "area arena" idea... you yourself have admitted (over and over) that your pet (and unimaginative) idea, RPS, won't work.

nope.. we need to get back to basics... maybe not everyone but.. enough want to have a good time.  My ideas all simply advocate a place to do it in the MA.  At the same time... I don't take any choice away from the attention starved building battlers.
lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
The best reason for not going to the DA is that there is no numbers there.  I like numbers... You don't get it because you play the ai portion of the game.  I am interested in the human factor.

Durrrrh... if the furballers migrated there, then there WOULD be numbers. You don't get it because you don't listen.

[Creamo]

Like all forms of game play, the current MA promotes more furballing than any “DA” could ever provide. It does it mostly by a strat model that has people bent on capturing the map, and like tonight they came in droves to try and close out the Rooks. I ran through more G10 ammo than the entire German front lines in late 1944, never getting past 10K. Pry got more kills in 1 night than in the last 2 months too.

Any argument to that fact is just a statement in how you like to play a stupid game, and why you think your gameplay is better or gasp “more manly” than the next guy that chooses one of the several MA gameplay roles.

If you want to do level bombing at ALT and learn the new bomber strat, that’s as cool as  taking a squad of P51’s to Alt and working in 3’s and 4’s. If you want to furball, low alt at a disadvantage, go for it.

That’s the way it is.

Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.

[lazs2]

and beetle and revvin... no matter what you say... you are battling buildings and you are having an effect on other peoples gameplay way out of proportion to the skill you need to do it.. sooooo....

You have to justify by talking about how much "thinking" it takes to suicide some buildings or appreciate the vast, complex AH "strat" system... all to negate the actual strat which is... the team with the most numbers "wins"...

Beetle hates the suicide jabo guys and the "missuns" that are gamey and ruin gameplay but.... him, and all the building battlers are hiding a dirty little secret...

they NEED these idiots... they may say that they find em offensive but they need em... the "strat" pivots on such gameyness... while they are running around with some self impossed tittle of "chess master of the sky" and "thinking realist" they are really dependent on the worst players that AH has to offer... they love it when the war is "advanced" by the sacrafice of the worst players in the game... they then take credit for any gains they themselves make when...

It is in fact the dweebiest and lowest skilled in the game that are doing the heavy lifting so far as AH "strat" goes... so far as "winning" the war...

The team with the most gangbangers and suicide building battlers wins the "war".

lets work a little to make these guys have a little less effect on the gameplay of so many.

oh... and I would venture to say that in a good furball I am usually one of the lowest alt guys in the fight most of the time..  alt means nothing in a large fur.

as for all the furballers going to the da and then it would have numbers?  Ok... when they all go there and it has the numbers I will go... till then I am not into martydom... You should be using that line of thought on your fellow "strat" buddies... the suicide jabo guys.  They will eat a bug if it might get em some attention.

creamo... the best fights are between fields... closer fields that are captured easier (as oppossed to simply lying useless) are the best.   we have gotten away from that... I think we may be getting back to it tho with some of the changes in infinity.
lazs

[Creamo]

Laz, we know you only fight under 500 feet. And the eye patch must be a hindrance, but damn if it don't match the leather knee high boots.

Thing is, the harder they porked the rooks tonight, the more bases they captured, the more I furballed.

Even still, your not arguing gameplay, your stating what you like to do in the game. And if you can't find a furball, you need to switch teams, or tell HTC just exactly when you can't find a fight and why. The overall strat isn't the problem. I always find a fight.

[lazs2]

creamo... I am not saying that you can't find a fight anytime you want to... all I am saying is that your idea of "finding a fight" is different than mine.  Way different...

I don't consider less than 1 kill per sortie or a little more than 3 kills an hour "finding a fight anytime I like".  I wish I knew your secret for filling in the boring time in between...

I have tried doing the laundry and dishes between fights but that somehow doesn't seem good enough.
lazs

[Creamo]

I see, so assuming you are not pouring your free time on my stats, or less embarrassing, you just assume I fly a Dora to alt most of the time, which I do, HTC should consider your adamant stance on gameplay. Which is? Take off, turn, kill, kill, turn, kill?

That’s a hard sell for the AH community, (I assume) to change all what HTC has created, when I just stated the panacea you want, was nothing less than what I experienced all of last night. A direct result of the current MA strat.

Dude, god bless ya, I really don’t care, was intrigued by the argument to repond, and I know you have posted about this a thousand times. Go get em. I just don’t get it.

[beet1e]

hehe, Creamo! Last time I saw you, you were flying a N1K. But that's OK. Nice posts - I might have to add you to my buddy list!

Lazs - I don't suicide buildings. Be very careful what you say about buffs/fluffs, what with the Con coming up and all. Remember what happened last time. I'd hate to think of you sobbing your heart out in that hotel room, while Hooligan's trying to get some sleep.

[Revvin]

The more you guys post the more my point is proved, its the furballers who complain because they just don't 'get it' that the MA is the halfway house between the CT and DA. The only people trying to stop others having fun are the furballers by limiting the way the virtual war in the arena is waged. Strat did'nt just happen by accident in the MA HTC put it there by design that has to tell you something..but no you just don't 'get it' The reason they don't want to go to the DA is of course numbers because the number of furballers really is'nt that high at all. Of course you're going to get fights in the MA but most of those guys like me are just having fun doing a bit of bombing, a bit of jabo and then some fighting they don't all circle jerk and cherry pick all the time. The furballers don't want to go to the DA because you won't get the attention they so sorely crave. As for crying? geez I did'nt realise Lazs was so fragile, perhaps I need to take him off ignore and lavish some attention on him