Author Topic: Italian planes...  (Read 1807 times)

Offline brady

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Italian planes...
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2003, 02:44:11 AM »
The Bomb(s) would rock hard as well on a CR 42:


« Last Edit: June 08, 2003, 02:47:26 AM by brady »

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2003, 11:55:21 AM »
could the Cant Z 1007 torpedo bomb? I know ive read that the SM79 was a superb torpedo bomber.
As for better performance of some 10 - 30 mph it would obviously help a bit but in an arena where most aircraft would be some 100 mph quicker that small increase in speed wont help much.

personally i prefer the SM79 because ive read so many stories that involves it. If i was to start seeing lots of stories about the Cant Z 1007 I might change my mind ;)

Offline brady

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« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2003, 03:34:44 PM »
Yes it was torpedo capable. See above.

"Cant Z 1007 aprox. 4,410 pounds internaly, alternatively two 1,000 pound torpedos and 4 bombs up to 551lb on under wing racks."


  On 29th Augast 1940 the Z 1007 began it's operational carier, the first unit to go into action the 106th Gruppo (260th and 261st Squadrigli)  operating from Trapani-Milo aganst Malta.

 In October the 50th Groupo began operating from Brindisi over the Greek Albanian war theater. Later it was joined by the newly formed 51st Groupo.

 The CAI also operated some Cant Z 1007's over England during the Battle of Briton.

 Later in the Balken Campagine More and more Z 1007 units were formed as production proceded and new machines went into service, the 47 Stormo, 41st Groupo then the 95th all particapated in the Balkin camagine.

 At this time several S.79 units (late 41) begain to convert to the New Cant Z 1007 as more became available.

 Operations over Malta contunied all through this time...

 Cant Z 1007 also were operating in NA at this time with various units including the 176th Squadriglia, then in Augast 42 the largest presence in Libya came with the 35Stormo (86th and 95th Groupo), operating agnast Tobrook, and during the Remender of the campagine in NA all the way up till the withdrawl of forces in NA.

 A few Cant's also went to Russia.

 Cant Z 1007's operated from Libbya, sardinia, Sicily,Greece, and Rhodes, their targets included raids aganst the Middle east, Alexandria, and British shiping throught the med, and target's throught NA.

 They operated right up till the end , and after serving with the Allies and Axis forces after the surender, and the last was decomishioned in 1949.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2003, 03:36:57 PM by brady »

Offline brady

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« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2003, 03:40:54 PM »
The above info came from: Ali D'Italia 18 C.R.D.A. Cant Z 1007,
Some adational Quotes from this Volume:

p.9 "The cant Z 1007 apears to be the most advanced Italian landplane bomber wrote the Air Staff Office( on 3 Augast 1938)"

p.11 " Magor Giuseppe Colavolpe, commandor of the 1st Flying unit, described the handeling qualities as excellent and satisfactory under every aspect."

p.11 "On 12th Augast 1939, the Air Staff Office informed Gabaereo that the preformance recorded placed the type very clearly ahead of the SM 79."

p.11" Since the Cant Z 1007bis has been shown to have better preformance than all other Standard Bomber aircraft currently in service, and in the event that such results be sanctioned by practial experience with service units{they were}, it will presumably be necessary to orient future orders towards this aircraft type."

p.22 "upon entering service the Cant Z 1007bis immedately showed qualities that endeared it to it's crews- docile handeling, stable platform, good low speed characteristics."

p.22 " bombs were well placed, making for predictable trajectories that inproved accuracery."

P.22 "Defensive arament was also found adaquate to keep enemy fighters at bay."

p.22 " wooden structure extreamly strong"

p.26 " the gradual increase in of the Cant Z 1007bis production rate translated into greater availabaility, which in turn allowed sereral SM 79 units to convert onto the new bomber."

p.35 "1942..."by now the aircraft formed the backbone of the reconnaissance and bomber units."

p.37 " Lt Vittorio Sanseverino, a veteran of the 256th squadrigilia, testifies that the 1007 could take great punishment and was not easily set on fire."

Offline bigjava

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Italian planes...
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2003, 03:43:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LUPO
Belle foto Bigjava! gli screen sono CFS2, vero?

si lupo le ho beccate dallo stesso sito dove ho trovato le foto, e ce ne sono altre tutte molto belle sia per dimensioni-qalità che per tipo di scatto "artistico!  ti metto il link alla main page:
gli screenshoot li becchi sotto la szione wwII perchè il sito parla anche della wwI...

pic's home page

anzi no ti metto pure il link diretto...  ;)
CFS2 screenshot


Quote
Originaly posted by Brady
 WOW!, Nice Shot's the Cant pic on the bottom is now my wallpapper!


i'm backing home just now, i'm happy that u enjoy it....i'm sorry i forgot to post the links to the main gallery page!!!
 there u will find some other good pics
main page is this above.....
the site is in italian but is easy to surf ;) however i post the links of wwII's pics separately here:


Macchi 's figther

Reggiane figthers

fiat's figthers

bomber

other airplanes

italian plane with other flags and german plane with italian flag


Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Three important words you must not forget:
Spanish
Civil
War


hey Arlo i got only one link but all for u

:p

Spanish Civil War pics

and co complete the list for everyone that it could be interested....

the beginnings of italy war's plane

wwI italians planes pics

italian's planes beetwin the two wars


and i finish with a pic:   the real 4^stormo in fligth 1940 Cr42
« Last Edit: June 08, 2003, 03:51:20 PM by bigjava »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2003, 03:53:51 PM »
The reason to add the SM-79 over the Cant is the same reason the B-25 should have been in the planeset instead of the B-26.

1: More widely used.

2: Less uber. Yes, this is a valid reason. If it was just about uber and the MA then the only bomber that needs considering is the B-29. The B-25 would be less intimidating to any IJ medium bomber. The SM-79 would be less intimidating in a med setting but not so handicapped as not to be both interesting and useful in an historical setting.

3: Player familiarity/preference. More players know about the SM-79 and more players prefer to see it modeled. If put to a vote the SM-79 would win hands down ... even with a proactive Cant campaign. Same would have happened in favor of the B-25.

;)

Offline brady

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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2003, 07:39:59 PM »
"1: More widely used."

  Numbers used is not a relvent point for inclushion in AH, and The Cant Z.1007 was used every whear the SM 79 was so this is not again a realy valid argument for or aganst it.

"2: Less uber. Yes, this is a valid reason. If it was just about uber and the MA then the only bomber that needs considering is the B-29. The B-25 would be less intimidating to any IJ medium bomber. The SM-79 would be less intimidating in a med setting but not so handicapped as not to be both interesting and useful in an historical setting."


  Well this debate is just about the diferences between the Cant Z 1007 and the SM 79, clearly in regards to the MA both would see very little use and both fair just as porley in that enviourment, the adadtion of these or any early war plane is mostly for the SEA or CT or the new ToD areana and their preformances should be considered relative to the time frame and plane set they would lilely be set in. From the Historical prespective the SM 79 was on the way out and the Z 1007 represent's the best of what Itlay had to offer.

 

"3: Player familiarity/preference. More players know about the SM-79 and more players prefer to see it modeled. If put to a vote the SM-79 would win hands down ... even with a proactive Cant campaign. Same would have happened in favor of the B-25."


 This may well be true, the addage " Be carefull what you ask for, you may just get it" springs to mind:) These debates do howeaver serve to preputaute the Thread, which in turn has the added advantage or benifit of increasing awarness on this issue.

Offline brady

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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2003, 08:42:38 PM »
Great Link BigJava, I just went throught all the pick's great high quality pic's!

 Do you know anything about this?:

  http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/cr32_cd.htm

  Is it available anywhear?

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2003, 09:11:07 PM »
well brady you've convinced me its worth using the Cant Z over the SM79. :)

the fact it was flown over England and Russia are a huge plus point in its favour as more scenarios can use it and the ability to perform all the tasks the SM79 could only at a little better performance means it would be the better choice from a tactical point of veiw.As for arlo's point about it being more widely recognised(SM79) hes probably right but remember HTC seem to like the idea of modeling aircraft we dont see in other sims like the komet, ta152, arado, f4uc etc so maybe they would prefer to model the cant Z over the SM79. For a start we already see the SM79 in another game in these pic's so maybe HTC dont want to have the same aircraft that will be directly compared.

mind you im only guessing here :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2003, 09:17:42 PM by hazed- »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2003, 09:13:09 PM »
Damn! Lost one! :D

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2003, 09:18:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Damn! Lost one! :D


lol :) i folded like a broken deck chair didnt I?

Im weak !! I changed my mind too  easily!! Damn that brady!

Offline bigjava

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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2003, 09:49:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady
Great Link BigJava, I just went throught all the pick's great high quality pic's!

 Do you know anything about this?:

  http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/cr32_cd.htm

  Is it available anywhear?


of course mate.........
 i have ceck it just now: well
 yes is available!.
 it was a insert of the italian magazine"rivista aereonautica"  the official journal publishd by the italian defense department  and they still sell it separately from the magazine.
it's cost about 6$
 but as i have read on the main page of the "rivista aereonautica" seems there is no way to order it with a credit card.
if u are interested i can send them a mail to undestand what do u have to do to order it.
but i think the easyer way it would be that i'll buy it for u and then i'll find a mode to send it to u,
i think that i'm going to buy one for me
;)
so thank to asking me notice about it :D
in case u are interested mail me!

also the Cr's CDROM there is an other CD about the SM79

in conclusion all u are looking for is here already translate by google  

rivista aereonautica multimedia shop (look at the bottom of this page)


main page not translated

P.s. Damned google! the translation is bad but comprehensible
.....the cost is logicaly expressed in Euro:D
« Last Edit: June 08, 2003, 10:21:07 PM by bigjava »

Offline brady

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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2003, 02:44:57 AM »
I would love to get both of them, the CR 32 and the SM 79, are they doing more planes?, or are these two the only ones curently available? I could send you a check or mony order in Euro's for the amount and enough to cover shiping, That would be great if you could do that!:), or maybe I could just send them the Mony order and they could send it to me?

Offline LUPO

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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2003, 06:24:05 AM »
Grazie Java! Il link è molto interessante e non lo conoscevo! :)
Le foto "spagnole" sono molto belle!

Offline bigjava

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« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2003, 09:02:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by LUPO
Grazie Java! Il link è molto interessante e non lo conoscevo! :)
Le foto "spagnole" sono molto belle!

 ;) dovere!
anche io sono rimasto meravigliato dalla qualità delle immagini, credo che le ottimizzi con qualche softweare cancellando dalla foto originale i segni del tempo e ottimizzandola poi per un formato PC compatibile.
azzardo questa ipotesi perchè
 se noti chiede publicamente se qualcuno abbia notizie di una foto in particolare perchè teme sia un fotomontaggio.....
indi penso che oltre la passione per gli aerei abbia anche quella della fotografia :D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2003, 09:24:31 AM by bigjava »