Author Topic: I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....  (Read 2877 times)

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2003, 01:44:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hooligan
Pongo:

You have fired thousands of rounds of .50 ammo????

Well bring your toys down to Vegas and lets party!

Hooligan


The canadian army made me leave all firearms and ammo used in thier possession when I left.
I have certainly fired 1000s of live fire 50 though.
10s of 1000s of 7.62
10s of 1000s of 5.56
1000s of 9mm

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2003, 01:49:50 PM »
Il2 is fun graphically, no doubt,  untill you get to the cartoon photon plasma cannon sci-fi muzzle flashes in daylight.

Offline Pepe

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1020
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2003, 01:53:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Then Oleg hasn't learned from HTC..



PERK LALA's!!!!  

...I had to ...   :D

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2003, 02:34:51 PM »
Don't most modern weapons have flash supressors?  Would not that affect your view of all those 10s of thousands of rounds you have fired?

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2003, 02:35:24 PM »
My take on the photo.

* This was not an accidental picture or snapshot, it was planned and executed VERY well.
* It was taken from a leading plane.
* The P-39 was lightly illuminated from the leading plane.
* It was taken with black and white 400 (or +) ASA film.
* The shutter speed was probably between 1/8 and ½ second.

* The exposure must have been long enough for all of the guns to cycle once and for all tracer rounds to exit the picture frame.
* The exposure also must have been long enough for the propeller to make at least one revolution. (There appears to be a shimmer at the bottom of the arc, probably where the light source was reflected off of the prop, but the prop does not look like it only traveled a few degrees in this shot.)
* The guns and prop suggest a shutter speed of no faster than 1/125, probably much slower.

* The star exposure does make this photo very challenging.  If they are indeed stars (and not dust as suggested) then they are very crisp.  
* Star picture shutter speeds need to be relatively long, usually several seconds or even minutes.  High number (400+) ASA B&W film however, could drop the shutter speed well under a second.  It would be very difficult to get a crisp shot of stars from a vibrating aircraft with a long shutter speed.

* The real problem in this kind of a shot would be getting ENOUGH exposure of the stars with out overexposing the P-39.  This suggest to me that the light source on the aircraft was VERY minimal, and not a giant floodlight.

* The other serious problem with this kind of a shot would be getting the P-39 and everything beyond (the stars) in focus with a wide aperture needed for such a low light photo.  They probably used a relatively wide-angle lens and put the P-39 beyond infinity focus to eliminate a limiting depth of field.

My conclusion,
Probably mostly a real photo, they may have added stars in the lab.

eskimo

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2003, 02:42:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
If that has not been touched up, you can make some logical deductions about the film.
 


It has been touched up.  I have a book on the Aircobra which explains that this was shot with an Aircobra on the ground doing firing tests.  They then airbrushed out the landing gear and rotated it to make it look like strafing.  I don't think they messed with the muzzle flashes though.

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2003, 02:42:38 PM »

Offline nuchpatrick

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1062
      • http://www.361stvfg.com
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2003, 02:44:47 PM »
Its a real photo I think I seen it as the Air & Space.... I'll see if I can dig up the story on it. I have it in one of my books somewhere! lol)

If I recall its a live nite fire test on a early model P-39 Q-1 with the wing mounted browning 7.62mg's and the cowl Browning 12.7 mg. and the BFG (T9) 37mm cannon


hehe..yep Funk found it..

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2003, 02:55:09 PM »

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2003, 02:56:47 PM »

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2003, 02:58:28 PM »

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2003, 03:03:50 PM »
« Last Edit: June 10, 2003, 03:07:42 PM by Gadfly »

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2003, 03:09:13 PM »
So what do those photos prove?

Don't use photos to support your idea of muzzle flash, because film doesn't represent what the eye sees very well in those conditions.

Offline Pongo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6701
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2003, 03:16:44 PM »
The M2 HB 50 cals I fired had no flash suppressor.
We never fitted the flash suppressors on our C5 (m1919) gmpgs
The Stirling SMGs I fired had no flash suppressors.
Yes the M16 and the M249 do have flash suppressors.

Post all the pictures you like. I have never lost sight picture firing a 50 cal due to the flash of firing it. Even looking through the sight or an AAMG sight that was mounted 6 inches above the reciever much less 10 feet away.
The only weapons that I have fired that obscured your view to that extent were rockets like the 66mm M72 law or the Tow.

They simply do not obscure your view like they do in IL2. Would the soviets have mounted 3 B20s on the cowl of the La7 if they would totaly obscure your sight picture for a second at least every time you fired?

We have all seen lots of recent live fire footage from the gulf. Did anyone see anything like that? You will not.
Its a photographic trick or something that they have rendered in thier game. The weapons do not flash any where near that badly. Certainly western ones do not.

Offline Hooligan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
I guess the IL2 developers never saw this....
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2003, 03:18:57 PM »
Quote

The canadian army made me leave all firearms and ammo used in thier possession when I left.


First they conscripted you, and then they hogged all the goodies?  No wonder you Canadians are so grouchy.  When you inevitably fell the need to start a revolution, you will have my full sympathy.

Hooligan