Time to give up on the norden.

[bongo]

Im with Pongo:D

[Pongo]

"Right on all 4 counts ALF. Although, there are things that must be taught before any amount of practice will help and you can't learn it by RTFM. The only way they'll get it is if they are taught by someone who has spent the last 6 months experimenting and reading these boards."

anoying implications that people just dont know how to bomb.
a little research would indicate other wise.

3 bomber score hit %s from the score page
456.41 %
183.761  %
96.875 %

Which one is pongo. Which one is alf. Which one is easyscor.
From the posts I have read here. I might belive that my bomber accuracy isnt over twice some of our experts and nearly 5 times other experts.  That in know way invalidates your opinion on the bombing game mechanic. But it will probably stop you braging about your skills and implying that I am talking about something that I have know idea about.

I have had a score at times near 800%. I know how to use the bomb sight. I could school both of you on it it seems.

So if we have dismissed your issue of training. Can we talk about how most people who want to play the game with bombers go about doing it. How use of bombers and interesting intercepts of bombers have diminished a great deal. How the guns on bomber formations are far weaker then the guns were on single bombers? How when an interceptor sees a formation of anything but B17s at combat alt they see 3 easy kill tickets that might as well be goons.

I hole hartedly aggree that I like the mechanics of the norden and I think it is very well implemented and meets its objectives. But as some others have pointed out. It has moved bombers out of sync with the "game".  For playing the "Game" bombers where far more usefull and therfor better used in the old system.
BUT
I think that the altitude constraints of the wind layer should be kept. That is a valuable game mechanic that keeps the strato buff in check. Although I think it was a very very rare bird where as our goon attack formation of buffs is a common sight.
So only have the norden for formations and make it manditory. And keep the wind layer but the other bombers dont have a sight that will compensate.

[Easyscor]

hehe, Yup, kinda hard to get hit% when your target of choice moves at 35 mph and has 5" guns  Or if you prefer to plink fuel with salvo 2 for 16K to 25K.  I don't worry about hit% or score anymore but I did check the hours spent in bombers last tour.

3.58 hr.
3.55 hr.
44.34 hr.

Seems to me the guy spending over half his time in bombers must be getting something out of it and might know something about it don't you think?  Check the total damage and hit% from last tour for all three peps in question  Then check the player kill stats for kills and deaths in bombers. I really need to improve my gunnery.

[Pongo]

Heres the deal. I said I dont like to fly bombers any more and why. You implied it was because I dont know how, I showed you I do indeed know how. Know your issue is how much I fly them.
That is my issue too. Its not fun, I cant effect the game with them so I dont fly them.

So maybe its not an issue of RTFM.  I have months of nearly 25 or 30 hours in bombers.
Now I spend about 25% of my time in bombers. Probably twice the game average.

As to your stats. There is no bomber that your 1 to 1 kills to deaths in. Doenst imply some great skill in defensive gunnery.

Most of us use bombers for a quick cake walk to get it out of the way. Those that dont use them as jabos.
Some very small % use them as big raid generators.
But the game doenst fit bombers anymore. Why would I take a bomber to kill a base or a fuel or a town. I can take down a town my self with a Typhoon more quilckly. I can take down fuel with the same plane more quickly.

anyway. the game has to be playable by people that dont want to spend 80 hours a month playing it.

[Boozer]

Originally posted by Pongo


As to your stats. There is no bomber that your 1 to 1 kills to deaths in. Doenst imply some great skill in defensive gunnery.

 

 Well someone fits & enjoys every category I guess, I use 17s to hit multiple back fields from alt, always get a little company and strive each month to get a 2:1 k/d with my B-17 formations, 1:1 is easy, sooner or later I'll get over 2:1

 I really like the way bombers are now, no change needed for my play style.

[Pongo]

Your play style would still be there.

[Rutilant]

You guys used up all my cheese!



Stop whining - you resemble that avatar of yours.

I ENJOY this current bombing method because not every dweeb and thier dog can do it well.

THIS part of the game takes some skill, (and i'm not saying you lack it, jeeze )
You say your good, yet you want it easier for you. Reminds me of the 'ace' 'vet' pilots that fly La7s and N1Ks.




If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it.

[BenDover]

I can sink a carrier with the bomb site if someone leaves me alone long enough.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by BenDover
I can sink a carrier with the bomb site if someone leaves me alone long enough.

I can sink a carrier by strafing it with the 110s dual 30mm...

[Pongo]

No. Im saying good or not is irrelivant. The use of bombers in the "Game" as in captureing enought fields for a reset or defending your country from that outcome is crippled.
It is nice to have found the 3 guys in the game that still think they make use of the bombers in a productive way though.
And since your so skillled. What do you care if the game is changed back so that a relativly unskilled bomber pilot in relation to your self can take up a bomber and hit point targets from 15k with out a 10 mile run up?You will have 3 bombers and be doing it from orbit. How does it weeken the game for bomber aces like yourselves to make them somewhat more realisically available for tactical use in the game in a non suicide manner?

wooo hooo there are 4 of us in the game out of 3000 subscibers that make use of bombers in the way that Pyro intended with the norden! wooo hooo. The number is higher then that but it is pathetically low.
Why not roll them partialy back to where they were. Make under the wind layer precision from one bomber alot easier. Keep strat bombing from high alt with formations the same it is now.

I guess I want it all. I want the big buff formations flattening a whole base from orbit. and I want to be able to take up a lone B26 and support my squad in a base attack as well, duke it out with the interceptors at 15k and still have a chance to hit the base.

not that much to ask for.  When you take a single bomber you have the choice of norden or not. When you take a formation you have to take the norden.

[BGBMAW]

i can bom in here no  problem...the boming is excellent..Good job HTC..even after ALL the CRIES at first..

Pongo if u need some lessons...find the Marine Air Wing..we can help u..


Love
BiGB
xoixo

[BGBMAW]

Pongo..lmfa i just read anothere of ur posts...

You should defntly change ur avator to...ababy crying ur name out PONGO!!!!  waaaaaaaaa......lmfaaaaoooo

[Pongo]

Have you ever even flown a bomber in the game?
But we all see your hordes driving bombers to enemy bases cause they dont know how to fly them. Your opinion is noted.

[Rutilant]

"A reltively unskilled bomber pilot"

A first day 2 weeker can do it, provided they bother to climb to alt and have a gunner who's any good.

The 'Norden' is here because they fixed it from the picklebarrel 30k pinpoint bombing. HT knows what he wants. and this is how he wants it.

Plus it'd make it less fun (for me) knowing that anyone who bothered to try could do it too. We're good at this, so let's just do it. Don't like the Norden, don't use bombers then?
This is realistic anyways - i like realism. (drifting off topic) Bombers in RL didnt drop on specific targets, they pummeled the crap out of the area of thier target in massive numbers. I think that works better here than trying to hit specific 3 sq yard boxes of fuel and such. (and it's more fun plowin up gardens)


for remaining surprisingly civil throughout this thread!

[Pongo]

Originally posted by Rutilant
"A reltively unskilled bomber pilot"

A first day 2 weeker can do it, provided they bother to climb to alt and have a gunner who's any good.

The 'Norden' is here because they fixed it from the picklebarrel 30k pinpoint bombing. HT knows what he wants. and this is how he wants it.

Plus it'd make it less fun (for me) knowing that anyone who bothered to try could do it too. We're good at this, so let's just do it. Don't like the Norden, don't use bombers then?
This is realistic anyways - i like realism. (drifting off topic) Bombers in RL didnt drop on specific targets, they pummeled the crap out of the area of thier target in massive numbers. I think that works better here than trying to hit specific 3 sq yard boxes of fuel and such. (and it's more fun plowin up gardens)


for remaining surprisingly civil throughout this thread!

Your incorrect. Bombers in real life droped single bombs on single targets. from alt in level flight. It was a matter of normal usage in ww2. There are inumberable accounts of it. If you ignored a ww2 heavy bomber over your field and just let him drop he would mess your base up. Thats why they developed the things.Just because they were used in mass numbers area attacks doenst mean that that is the only way they were used. Now admittedly the Norden we have will allow that as well.

You can not speak for HT. Kind of silly for you to presume you can. The game evolves and changes and grows. I am saying there is room in the game for both versions of bombers. And if the old sight was only effective below the wind layer whats the harm?
We use one man to take the roles of 30 men and wonder why its quite ineffective.
Bombers just dont matter in the game. They are just fodder. Its a waste of the effort it took to develope them for the game.

Besides. This whole forum is for game play discussions. What are we supposed to do here but discuss them?
Yet the only real rebuttle of my point is that its a training issue. Some are rought and tough and like to buff and others cant hack it...lol I think that the bombers are over whelmingly used in dweebish ineffective ways in the game. Far more so than when the old system was available.

We are 6 days into the month. I think I am 22 to 1 against bombers in the MA. Most of that is the ways they have to fly.