Time to give up on the norden.

[XtrmeJ]

Originally posted by Pongo
Well after a nice 9 month experiment in "realistic" bombing the game play of bombing in AH has been destroyed. Most people dont really ever use the sight. Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck.  Any bombing other then a cake walk kind of mission where you have fields arround the enemy strat is a waste of time. You will be chased down like dog meat by suicide interceptors. Since field attack from alt is nearly imposible in a contested area. And strat targets are only really viable in milk run mode. Why bother with the bombers?
I propose that the formation bombers with thier wimpy guns and crazy bomb sight be deligated to formation use only. If you want to take off a single bomber and fly it in the old way with the pickle barrel sight then that should be in the game too. As it is bombers are useless to most people and in most circumstances.

I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena.  And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
I would say that the bomber rehash just didnt work.

Today GBaLL put up a bomber mission with escorts. We flew from a safe base 3-4 sectors away from the target. The P51's flew high and circled a few times till we were with the formation of B17's. We got to the target and all the bombers in the mission bombed and hit targets from 13-16k feet. We demolished the base hangars and were able to capture it. So the spirit of "true" bombing lives on, by the few who choose to do it right

[Boozer]

Pongo wants to dogfite his way into battle, pickle eggs and be sure of a hit when he gets 10 seconds free and then dogfite his way out with a 26.

   I for one am glad he can't, the arena is gamey enough, we don't need to add to that kind of play.
 
   Pongo, try a mosquito and dive bomb.

[Pongo]

One of the reasons that gballs mission to 38 was a success was that I had taken down much of the fuel at that base with repeated mossquito dive bomb sorties.

That a large well thought out mission with escorts was able to make it to a base and hit it reinforces my request. It doesnt negate it in any way. I want to be able to have those kinds of sortis as well.  That such an occasion stands out in the minds of the players as a rarity reinforces my point as well.

Boozer I just want to still be able to hit the target if I meet an interceptor within 10 miles of the target.

Your jibe about dive bombing is missdirected. But what ever. What you really mean is get a dozen of your friends and kamakazi the fuel at a base.


The horrible spectre of bombers in AH pre norden is very chilling to some apparently. I must have missed that. I think that even a gamy thing like making bombs totaly useless above the wind layer if you dont have a norden would be fine, so they couldnt be compensated for by a pilot with a good eye.

[CMC Airboss]

Originally posted by Pongo
Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck.

Is there a data source that supports this assertion?  A before and after comparison?   You must realize that deck flying bombers would get destroyed regardless of the bombsight or gunner accuracy.  Flying low is a high risk shortcut to get to a target quickly while hopefully being unseen.  Both in AH and RL, such attackers were and are attacked mercilessly.  Taking the time to get to altitude greatly reduces the risks.  And, if anything, AH bombers are virtually immune to the high altitude airburst ack which was definately not the historical case.

I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena.  And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.

The new sight is not a failure and goes a long way toward reducing the use of strategic bombers as tactical attack aircraft (some call it milkrunning).   The calibration routine yields the same accuracy as the old system.   If anyone is not getting the same accuracy, something is being missed during the calibration.  There are some great tutorials out there for the use of the Norden in AH.  You can also bring a gunner along if concerned with the potential of being attacked during the bomb run.

MiG

[Red Tail 444]

I have several standard packaged; Heavy bombers with clean escorts. It's hell to get people to join up because there arent an assortment of planes available.

I'm a fan of historical setups, and a 20+ bomber mission, with a variety of ordnance payloads, with 25-40 P51Ds is not a boring sortie.

too bad, most want the furball fast-food, screw-RTB variety mission. Count me out of that scenario!

Gainsie

[bj229r]

HMMmmm BGB...your buff score belies your claims; One would think with all the wingies yall have..ya could spend more time preppin for drop;

[bj229r]

also--Im with Easy about removing stukas, etc from 'bomber' category--its not an easy thing hittin hangars with buffs on norden--havin that score compared with a point potato who takes 4-5 stuka trips to a city and drops the 4 k egg...bogus--make em learn it

[BGBMAW]

iwill bom against any one..

You relying on my stats...as u should know... can be useless or at least skewed..

my hand right hand has been broken for almost 2 months now...eveen before tht... i routinely auger ..afk kills.disco's..etc etc.....

but trust me..i will bom from any alt and smash ur sht...good

there are many players who will say the same thing...

so whts ur point again?

[BGBMAW]

quote:

quote:
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Originally posted by Pongo
Most formations of bombers are destroyed on the deck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there a data source that supports this assertion? A before and after comparison? You must realize that deck flying bombers would get destroyed regardless of the bombsight or gunner accuracy. Flying low is a high risk shortcut to get to a target quickly while hopefully being unseen. Both in AH and RL, such attackers were and are attacked mercilessly. Taking the time to get to altitude greatly reduces the risks. And, if anything, AH bombers are virtually immune to the high altitude airburst ack which was definately not the historical case.


quote:
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I do enjoy the calibration..it just doenst work in the arena. And the formation guns are worse then the old single guns.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new sight is not a failure and goes a long way toward reducing the use of strategic bombers as tactical attack aircraft (some call it milkrunning). The calibration routine yields the same accuracy as the old system. If anyone is not getting the same accuracy, something is being missed during the calibration. There are some great tutorials out there for the use of the Norden in AH. You can also bring a gunner along if concerned with the potential of being attacked during the bomb run.

MiG



Dam mig..Exactly..well done

1 more thing...Defensive guns?????lmfao..hell i call them offensive..  must be me..but a B  17 is a flying Deathstar..I kill many..many ftrs....**im above average gunner..but a decent gunr can defend semi-well**There are a "few " pilots in this game that can attak and kill B17s ' with either no damage or usually DEATH...

and yes there is a horrrible BUG in hetre tht Still makes all explode so quickly...raree but still here

Love BiGB

[Leslie]

The only time I have gotten upset enough to quit my sub was when Whels shot down my Lanc using a Tempest at over 30k.

I immediately cancelled my subscription out of pure frustration.     Had nothing to do with Whels.  This was 2 years ago when we had the non calibrated sights.

Bombers have always been tough for me, even when they were easy to bomb with.

I enjoy Lanc bombing in this game.  For me it used to be fun, but I don't do it because I can't calibrate the bomb sights.  For some reason, I can't do it.  The last 5 times I tried, I couldn't get a "green light" text to show up.  When I dropped, my bombs were off about 6 town lengths from 10k alt.  The sights are not calibrated, and I have not seen green text, indicating that calibration is set.

This might be funny to you, but I'm not going to waste my time flying bombers, when I can't even calibrate the sights.

I have respect for the players who are able to bomb sucessfully.  When will I be able to?  It is truly the most challenging part of the game, for me at this time.

Wish I wasn't so stupid...dammit!!!



Les  

[bj229r]

Dang sorry to hear that BGB--perhaps we can have a bombing contest over a bish base in future--assuming I have a future here--my laptop cant launch  a plane in MA anymore, since the new isles map--must have been some sorta server change then as well---now i can only fly MA while at home..which is like 6-7 days a month at best (wife seems have problem with that)

[Pongo]

bgbmaws squads bomber hit % this tour.
1.3385%

talking out your bellybutton buddy.

[BGBMAW]

pongo...finger..my hand has been broke for 2 months ...but FU..i could care less...u cant calibrate,,i think its funnny...


look at 3 months and bak..but i still auger...blah blah blah...but funny..i still kuik bellybutton in buffs..owell tuff for u...maybe u need more TA time?

229.....good luk on comp...happy huntn..

Leslie..when do u play...?? I am %100 for sure my Squad mates ..or me can teach u no sweat...No green lights??/ omg..that is very simple..hopefully u can find us somtime

[Pongo]

I knew something must be wrong, but was leaning towards a mental handycap. Having your finger where it shouldnt be would do to to though.
Keep babbleing, Your squads tactics and stats make my case bettter then anything I might say.

To reiterate. the new norden works great for what it was implemented for. But that is not of enough value in the game to make it worth while to use. The old sight on single bombers restricted by the wind layer would be a great addition to the MA.

Do I have stats to prove this. No. But it would be common knowledge to most anyone that plays this game.
Love the norder, love the formations, Love to see a 60 buff formation comming in from the sea with escorts at 27k. But to play the game lets have the pickle barrel sight back,restricted as I described, single plane only of course and hindered by the wind layer.

[BGBMAW]

i wonrt defend sht..

again my boming kiks asss..hace no complaints..calibraTIOn is easy


PONG(O   again..what the hell is wrong with you..??

Can you not calibrate????

Why just under wind layer???

Dam seems u want the TA bomsight..maybe tht means you need more practice...

i dont know....but i really dont care...you know why?? I can sink CV;'s at will level boming...no cries here


So keep panting maybe HTC will perk the 'Kindergarden lazer boming" for you..little pongo...heheheh

Your squads tactics and stats make my case bettter then anything I might say ...pango

  lmfao...ya we all suk...give us easier game..all the MAW are here crying for it..


Again pongo should change his avatar  to "Pongo"  whaa:p


Love BiGB