Salute to the Bomber Dudes

[Tjay]

"Presenting ones point of view becomes a whining complaint if it continues against the tide for an extended period of time."

I raise my glass to any man intelligent enough to realise this and considerate enough not to do it.#

It should be carved in stone at the entrance to every AH arena.
 

[Degas]

It's Strat Players vs. Furballers, redux  

Without exception, every bomber pilot I know in AH is a Strat Player.  We're fortunate enough to have a number of Strat-minded fighter pilots in our group (<S>, guyz!).

Buffs and buff pilots are appreciated by Strat Players, and disliked by Furballers.

Aces High is a game, and games have Objectives, for any player that participates.  The foremost objective is to have fun.

Lazs and many others have fun by getting the most amount of kills in the shortest amount of time flying fighters in furballs.

Sunchasr and many others have fun by participating in well-planned and executed operations designed to take enemy bases and eventually win the reset.

There is room in Aces High for both of the above objectives.  Sometimes, when we see a large number of our countrymen fighting and dying around a particular base, we make the mistake of thinking that their objective is to TAKE that base.  So, we bend every effort to flatten it, in order to assist in that objective.

It is extremely frustrating for Strat Players to play in the same arena as Furballers.  The reverse is also true.  But Aces High gameplay allows for both.  As long as I am a paying subscriber, I will continue to be a Strat Player.  I will also refrain from knowingly interfering with the gameplay of Furballers.

To each his own.  

[lazs]

degas... I think there is room for both.  Under my retoric is the theme that rangerbob espouses but...   I want realistic damage, FM, and gunnery in a sim and don't give a whit about strat.   as u say, I want to fite and kill.  I get enough "strat" and boredom out of work.  

gunnery to me also means bomb dispertion and damage means.... damage including blast radius.   Realisticly.... damage wise... bombers didn't close fields.  They kept peoples heads down and kept everyone up nights...when they do close otherwise undamagged fields to fighters only in AH it is gamey and embarassing.  And, distinctly, unfun.   If, they had realistic targets like  huge cities and huge ports and they would have to allmost devestate the landscape at fields to close em... everyone would be part of the sim and not some be in a sim and some be in a game.

If you can tell who is "furballing" and who is strat then.... something is wrong with the setup.
lazs

[Niblitz]

Amen, Degas. Well said and to the point, as always

A big <S> to Sunchasr, Degas, Defiance, Kranan, et al who make AH a BLAST to play as a strat player. I consider it an honour to have flown with such great people. The fact that they are the grumpiest @#$^#$% curmudgeons(especially after they've been into the cider)only adds to the immersion factor for me  

Having only been here a month, I won't purport to know everything(yet), but i will say that every buff mission that i have been a part of has been at very reasonable (read: sporting) altitude; indeed, a mission without cons IMO is a bore (esp. for the escorts!)

And yes, i have also enjoyed the pure, immediate thrill of the furball, and will again(for about 30 seconds each @#$% time).
But to the Furballers I say: If you don't like us over your base, SHOOT US DOWN. If you don't your party WILL be moved. As long as the objective of this game is land aquisition, strat players will try for the reset, and the more mature players will try to do so in a fair manner. It is pretty funny to talk about realism in bombing strategy when your contribution is to circle an ememy airfield with no intention of taking it, and wait for fresh meat to spawn.
But, as Degas said, to each his own  

[Midnight]

Last Sunday (6th May) the 412th came across 2 seperate formations of bombers.

1st was a 4 ship B17 group flying a close box at 15k. Our 4 Mustangs were able to break up and shoot down 3 of the B17s with only 1 of out A/C lost.

2nd was a 4 ship LANC group flying a close box at 20k with 2 190 escorts. Our 4 Mustangs broke up the escorts and then assisted in downing all 4 LANCs with no losses to our A/C.

I think the bombers were the same group of guys each time. I have parts of both events on film and will check it ot.

Anyway, WTG bombers guys. It made for a fun time during our 3rd offical squad night. <SALUTE>


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Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!

Midnight CO


The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information         davidlj@charter.net

[kfsone]

I recently escorted a couple of buffs on quit a long trip, flying a Spit. There were no gunners available, so they had to make do with a solitary escort. We approached the target at 15k, just below a cloud layer. I made a quick circle as they went to bomb run, and came out just behind them.

While I was reporting in from my orbit I began tumbling into a dive, but not before I saw the b17 infront of me burst into flames and go down.

A single LA7 (or N1K - I remember not, never saw him) took down all 3 of us.

Fair enough, he caught me by surprise, but those two B17s never opened up a round because, sans gunners, and with the pilots being occupied with - well - flying, they never even saw him coming.

Needless to say we flew back at higher altitude.

I'm sorry if you fighters find it hard to deal with the fact that bombers don't (and never did) fly along at your preferred cruising altitude of 6-8k. and that we expect to have guns other than at the front of our aircraft, but - we're not fighters.


K

[Revvin]

<S> to one of the best buff jocks I know kfs! Long time no see m8  

A week or so ago I made a light hearted challenge to Wilbuz to come and have a pop at my Lancaster knowing I really did'nt stand much chance. I took off in the training arena and to surprise him and give me a little edge dropped my ord then dropped to skip across the waves so he would'nt exploit my lack of a belly gunner. I dived to the deck and minus my payload and a minimal fuel load Wilbuz found it hard to catch me but when he did he sliced me in half in very short time making fast slashing attacks and I don't think I got one round on him! Kinda dispells this myth of uber buffs flying around with impunity while they spoil the fun for everyone else.

There are many things that can be done that would not only make bombing more realistic and make it fun for both fighters and bombers but while the players with the arcade mentality shout loud and long in these forums without listening to the viewpoints of the buff jocks here that want to fly properly then it will only lead to this sim turning into a game and there are three competing sims willing to take on subscribers who want more than just an arcade game.

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Revvin
No.9 Squadron RAF

[Degas]

Lazs:  I would really like to play the game you describe, with more targets for bombers, realistic bomb dispersion and blast radius, damage models, etc.  If you ever find that game, lemme know    B17 FFII was supposed to do this, but those lame-prettythanges shipped their game without multi-player.

As it is, the gameplay in Aces High revolves a great deal around the mechanics of online gaming.  In order for people to enjoy the experience of Aces High, bandwidth issues have to be addressed.

In any online game, the number of packets required to be passed between client and server is the bottleneck which prevents more "involved" gameplay.  Anything you do in Aces High requires your client to pass packets to the server, and the server to pass packets back.  Also, anything you SEE on your screen that is happening real-time in the game requires the same thing.

Therefore, I don't think we will see the changes you mentioned happening    Larger cities/targets means more objects in the game, and particularly when within view of players.  Bomb dispersion and realistic blast radius mean more calculations between client and server.  Crater/runway damage (aka terrain deformation) is another big bandwidth eater.

Unfortunately, I live in the country.  Which means I'm limited to dial-up at 31,200 bps.  I think many are in the same boat, vis-a-vis connection speed.  I am already killed quite regularly by fighters who are 3K + range from me, and suddenly warp out of my gunsight to the sound of furious pings and my plane disintegrating around me.

I just don't see how Hi tech and the rest can get around this.  I've been lag-killed in every online game there is.  You learn to live with it, or you don't play online, lol.

So, I'll continue to enjoy flying Aces High the way it is.

Niblitz:  Nice post, fellow mullet    We'll just keep flying at 10K so we can get to the target and get shot down faster!  ooo-rah!

[lazs]

degas.. perhaps, but... I don't see any problem with more dispertion and more blast radius for bombs and more realistic (harder) field closure of the fighter element.  More blast radius would also make for a tiny bit of realism where there is none now so far as bombing ground vehicles.

nimb.. shoot you down?  No thank you.   you may have noticed that a lot of guys lose all sense of immersion and interest when attacking single manned, 10 guns slaved to one, bombers.   It is like a shot of cold water in the face after a good fite with other fiters for some of us.   and you want us to climb up to those buffs and game an unrealistic attack at an unrealistic target so that.... they can't do unrealistic damage to, of all things, airfields?   It is so much less fun than fighting other fighters and so much less realistic that the only time I attack a bomber is if I am bored beyond all comprehension.  

One element is a combat flight sim and one element is a simplistic board game.  We need to make both more sim like.
lazs

[Steven]

I'll jump into this thread and provide an illustration that being able to die and jump back into an aircraft can make you stoopid.

The other day I saw an enemy B17 toddling along low so I thought I'd dive in at him in my P51 from my perch at 20K.  Woops, gained too much speed, gotta level out to slow down...now where'd he go?  There he is, now dive!  Ripping along I quickly close in on the B17 and in an exchange of gunfire, dissentegrate from his guns.  Oh well, I was low fuel and RTB'ing anyway.  I'll up in another aircraft...I hear the FW with gondola guns is good for anti-buffs, I'll fly my first Focke Wulfe mission.  Well, I find the B17 and "blam!"  He gets me again.  Okay, he has to be soft, I'll try this FW again.  I take off and search him out but these FW's with gondolas do not climb so well and the 17 is light and he's hard to catch.  I find him and every time I try to get into position for a safer shot he'll turn into me...a couple times, it almost looks like he's turning head on to me to chase me!  After about three passes, I bore in less carefully and "blam!"  The B17 gets me again!  Luckily no one else is around to see this, but man...three strikes and I'm out and it's time to power down the computer and take to heart the lesson I learned.  Let others take on Buffs.

-Puke