Author Topic: 190A vs SpitVB (Read 8048 times)

F4UDOA · « **Reply #150 on:** July 29, 2003, 06:23:30 PM »

Hazed,

When you check speeds are you using the game interface or the external AH Film viewer?

I ask because there is some built in slop in the intruments. If you look at the digital speed it is often quite a bit different. I have seen a difference of as much as 20MPH TAS.

BTW, Butch2k has as much real data on the FW190 as I have seen anywhere. Check with him for hard data. If it is out there he has it.

niklas · « **Reply #151 on:** July 29, 2003, 06:50:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
#4 How about we look at that 450mph 109G-10 again huh? seems ok when it does 20mph faster than any published source I can find on a 109G-10

The often quoted 685 km/h quote /425mph for the G-10 is without MW-50. Just check the corresponding altitude

niklas

funkedup · « **Reply #152 on:** July 29, 2003, 06:53:51 PM »

Nice find Butch!

Squire · « **Reply #153 on:** July 29, 2003, 11:45:10 PM »

"The often quoted 685 km/h quote /425mph for the G-10 is without MW-50. Just check the corresponding altitude."

Prove it.

Batz · « **Reply #154 on:** July 29, 2003, 11:54:19 PM »

corresponding altitude is 7,500m.

Theres your "proof".

You are basically saying the same thing Hazed is. That HT and crew are lying.

Who told you that FB was "Bible of the LW"?

You dont what the heck you are talking and are just here to join the pile on.

Squire · « **Reply #155 on:** July 30, 2003, 12:16:10 AM »

Show me any credible doc that has a 109G-10 capable of that speed. One 109 varient I can find a source that gives the famous "452 mph" is the 109K-14 with a DB601L engine using MW50.

I didnt say anybody was lying, those are your words not mine. Is AH capable of having errors in the flight model? yes. Does that mean that Hitech was the second shooter on the grassy knoll?, ugh, no.

Disagree with me if you want to, thats fine, but I am justified in making a comparison of an a/c in Aces High that has a higher speed than sources indicate, to make my point about why things are pointed out, and by who.

I will even concede right now that its possible the 109G-10 did go that fast, and if it did, HTC certainly is giving it the benefit of the doubt, despite being so anti-LW.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #156 on:** July 30, 2003, 12:23:53 AM »

So you have K14 data.... Thats nice seeing as most likely none were ever built or flight tested....

BTW projected speed for the K14 with new 605L engine, four blade prop, new aerodynamic refinements, was much higher than 452mph.

But you are ignorant and dont care, you are just whining for whinings sake. We have the best possible G10, high alt speed near identical to K4 - 450mph at around 22k.... HTC knows this!

Squire · « **Reply #157 on:** July 30, 2003, 12:38:54 AM »

Fine with me, just dont go on about how the poor LW is abused. Best posible 109G-10? would be nice if that got more press amongst some, yes?, instead of how the Spit is overmodelled?

As for the rest, sticks and stones. I could care less Grun. Its interesting how fast some of you throw insults as soon as a post with a different view comes up. "Liar" "Whiner", ya you been on the AH BB awhile now eh? hard to tell.

Karnak · « **Reply #158 on:** July 30, 2003, 12:51:06 AM »

Squire,

The Bf109G-10s were a hodge podge. It was a program to bring Bf109G-6s up to Bf109K-4 standards. Most of them received engines that took them up to about 425mph, but some, such as the one in AH, got the full blooded Bf109K-4 engine and could make 452mph.

That is how I understood it anyways.

I'm not a big afficiando of German engines so I'm afraid I can't rattle off the actuall engine designations.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #159 on:** July 30, 2003, 01:03:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
Fine with me, just dont go on about how the poor LW is abused. Best posible 109G-10? would be nice if that got more press amongst some, yes?, instead of how the Spit is overmodelled?

As for the rest, sticks and stones. I could care less Grun. Its interesting how fast some of you throw insults as soon as a post with a different view comes up. "Liar" "Whiner", ya you been on the AH BB awhile now eh? hard to tell.

Me going on about the LW being abused here, lets see both my posts basically said there is not much real difference between individual LW 13mm and the dreaded US 50cal? But you are really arguing with hazed and mandoble and trying to be a bit self righteus...

It is intersting how quickly people throw out the "whiner" tag isnt it? But that was intentional in my post, happy you noticed it...

Batz · « **Reply #160 on:** July 30, 2003, 02:53:09 AM »

erla produce 109 g10s with the db605AS eng. IIRC they produced under 100 and had to modify the eng cowl. As wastel pointed out a 109 with the db605ASM is almost exactly like the ah g10 (it may be).

Some g10 were refits some were new. I tested the ah g10 w/out wep at 24,280 ft and hit 426mph. It kinda falls inline with what niklas said. But either way no one has to prove anything to you.

By implying that the g10 "over performs" you are doing the exact samething that Hazed did.

wastel1 · « **Reply #161 on:** July 30, 2003, 03:06:59 AM »

well, as long as we/you don't know the engine type HTC modelled, you can't know what is right.
but for the G10 we have only SOME DB605ASM engines built in like batz say..the rest was the 605D....but which D?
but when saying the G10 is in AH fastest at 25k...it must be
the ASM...and even then the alt is little to high.

if you have the engine charts, don't think that the rated alt is the alt with the top speed. the rated alt is fon an NOT MOVING engine. but if the engine travels 600km/h+ the preassure in the air intake rises the rated alt. look athe the Db605A-1 of the G6,
the rated alt is 5.8km....but the historically G6 reaches its top speed of 650-660km/h (not the F**** 625km/h all sources tell..these are from an G6/Rvariant) at an alt of 6300-6400m.

i studied the 109G/K lots lately for the upcoming patch for il2-fb...and belive me...its horrible :-)

wastel

PS. i think AH and Wb both have the G6/R6 top speeds for the clean g6 :-(...only il2 is right there in the moment.

Batz · « **Reply #162 on:** July 30, 2003, 03:34:06 AM »

I think that the ah g10 hits max speed at a lower alt. I mentioned 25k because Squire was comparing the ah g10 with the data provided in FB. I believe thta the object viewer says the FB g10 hit 690kmh @7500m.

Heres a Java Chart with what I believe is taken from testing the ah g10

Heres the AH chart. They are slightly different.

Like you said I dont know what eng HT modelled.

Thanks for the input.....

niklas · « **Reply #163 on:** July 30, 2003, 03:42:57 AM »

Like wastel said, even the AS supercharger was not powerful enough to build up 1.8 or even 1.92 ata for MW-50 in 7.4km. This engine was probably the early D engine (1550PS) that had it´s rated altiutde in 6.5km, so with a little RAM effect you get up to over 7km.

In this old sheet that is filled out with the test data, they even mention the standard A engine, but i think it´s wrong (the D would have been correct). On the other hand it lists a drop tank, but once more i don´t think that with standard boost and a drop tank 550km/h was possible on ground. It just gives you the information that the speed was reached with a ETC501 rack.

The same data, or speed curve, is listed in the Tsagi Charts btw. . There you can see the altitude of 7.4km too. Definitly no usage of mw-50

Stefan

Neil Stirling1 · « **Reply #164 on:** July 30, 2003, 04:08:22 AM »

I think this may be of some help.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/JStirlingBomber/109+G.jpg

Neil.