Originally posted by hitech
And you are dead wrong about it madoble. Just as hazed is.
It comes down to "well HTCisn't doing what I want them to, therefore they are biased or don't care about my particular plane." And that consept is so far from how we operate, that it exasperates me when some people like you and hazed keep restating it in different forms.
2nd unlike f4udoa who now seems to understand the problem in doing plane research, but didn't orignaly ,there is lots of data out there, and most of it confilicts with eachother, some even with it's self.
Therefore just pulling one source dosn't invalidate our version of an aircraft.
You and hazed follow the clasic example of totaly biased when it comes to evaluating plane performance. You start with a conclusion and then just look everywhere for the 1 sample that proves your point, and ignor all other items that contridict it.
And Hazed we do hit our performance charts on all planes.We have stated that before. There are lots of people how have tested them, and we always hit the numbers when they run an accurate test and not looking to prove there point. Did you even try out F4UDOA's suggestion to get the speed with a film?
HiTech
Toad: And what is the glide ratio in AH.
do you know something HT. This is the longest reply ive ever seen you write and the first time you have gone some way to explain how you think and feel. I happen to think your conclusions on my bias is wrong but there may be some truth to it that i cant see.What id like you to understand is this, I have never ignored any information about any of the aircraft.
Just as an example I bought a book about the P40 and read about its flying characteristics. There wasnt much in favour of this plane apart from its adaptability for carrying ordinance and its rugged structure made it a fairly good ground attack plane. In one book i read that the P40 had good dive characteristics and then later in another source I read it wasnt so great. Now as i had conflicting material i asked a question about the P40 and asked if AH has it correct with its dive. Im not party to the same information you are Hitech and this is why im asking, it isnt because i want the model changed, its because id like to know which of MY sources is correct. The one that claims it had a good dive or the one that says it didnt.
When i ask about allied planes I get no name calling or anything like that but if I happen to mention a 190 or 109 the whole atmosphere of the thread changes.
You say i make conclusions and ignore all the facts and stick to my opinion? well id like to tell you you are wrong. If you read my 190a8 question about speed you would see that me and others in the thread discuss it clearly and each give info from various sources. In the end none of us had the answer but you did as you wrote the game. You never did answer. Like you said have i checked the speed on the film veiwer? no i hadnt because at that time i dont think we had it, If i had it and did the test and found the speed to be 355mph with wep i would have dropped it and probably appologised for making a mistake. I would have probably asked why our graphical dials read wrong but thats about it.
You are assuming im making conclusions when in fact im asking questions, nothing more. I dont consider myself knowledgeable enough in computer modeling to make conclusions.
If you take a look for instance at my 190D-9 dive question with concerns to a P51D outdiving me with a full compliment of rockets and bombs I ask if this is right, I do say 'surely this cant be right' but sheesh shoot me if it doesnt seem wrong and i was annoyed at the time of posting it too. From what i have seen most ordinance had limits in the speeds it could be dropped, Ju88s cant drop higher than 100ft or 200mph with their torpedoes, Japanese torpedoes have the same restriction?. Us torpedoes could be dropped at a higher speed and alt I was told on this BB and i took that as truth. Ive read accounts of the German rockets they used and these also had severe restrictions on the speed they could be fired and if you ever add them id expect them to have those restrictions. Now what im asking is did the P51D have limits? If it did then i think you should impose them in AH, if they didnt a quick pointer to where i could read about it would convince me and id accept it. I think you have the wrong idea about me and most likely mandoble too. You seem too ready to pigeon hole us all as the 'RAM' type when we are nothing like them , or at least i dont think i am.
If you had time to search through the posts id made id think you might understand this but you havent got the time or inclination it seems to listen. In all the time ive been here ive asked about the climb of the 190a8 above 20k which doesnt match my source OR charts posted by vermillion and others for me . Ive asked for the reasons behind the times for cooling being so different for various planes, RAF 15mins, USAAF 10 mins, and 109 10mins, 190 20mins, and although you replied not one person in the thread understood and again you accused me of seeking an advantage?? I didnt even ask for change just a reason behind the times you chose. In the end you said you chose them because you 'felt they were right'. and now most recently I asked about the dora's dive speed compared to a P51D fully loaded with ord.
These 3 questions are the only questions Ive really asked. The rest are usually discussions of OTHER PEOPLES questions and i dont make conclusions unless i find something in a book to help the discussion and throw it in. I just went back through 14 pages if my previous posts and in none of them have i come to a conclusion apart from the one about control rods which bohdi convinced me i got the wrong idea about.I accepted the answers, I didnt conclude and ignore anything. They are all questions as far as i can see, none are me stating im right and AH is wrong and be damned the evidence.
I actually feel quite agrieved by your veiw of me and i am confused as to when you made your mind up about me. I have hardly been a regular contributer to the aircraft and vehicles technical discussions but i do now and again post any intersting stuff i read, do you want this to stop?
Heres one i found once i started to look for info concerning the P51's and how they act or behave with ordinance, I struggled to find much but here is an interesting snippet strangley enough from the 190 in combat book by alfred price taken from trial reports of mock dogfights done by the allies with a captured 190A (ive only included the one with drop tanks because this may help with the debate over the diving P51D with bombs and rockets)
'Performance of the P51B carrying long range fuel tanks:
Speed:
There is a serious loss of speed of 40-50m.p.h. (65-80kmh) at all engine settings and heights.It is however, still fatser than the Fw190(BMW 801D) above 25,000 ft (7,620m)
Climb:
The rate of climb is greatly reduced. It is out-climbed by the Fw190.The mustang is still good in the zoom climb(attack), but is still outstripped(defence) if being followed all the way up by the fw190.
Dive:
So long as the tanks are fairly full, the mustang still beats the Fw190(BMW 801D)Turning circle:
The tanks do not make quite so much difference as one might expect.The mustang can at least turn as tightly as the fw190(BMW801D) without stalling out.
Rate of Roll:
Generally handling and rate of roll are very little affected.
Conclusions:
The performance of the mustang is greatly reduced when carrying drop-tanks, Half hearted attacks could still be evaded by a steep turn, but determined attacks would be difficult to avod without losing height.It is still a good attacking aircraft, especially if it has the advantage of height.'
Interesting i thought and something i didnt expect to be honest but im still open to info, I havent 'drawn conclusions' other than i think it sounds a bit strange that those rockets and bombs didnt cause the drag to increase to the point it slows the dive speeds.and of course this isnt vs. the 190D9 so it wuld be good to see the same test if there was one vs. the dora.
So ill ask you where do you get the idea im making my mind up and THEN asking questions? I always give my sources which after reading make me ask about them in order to see if they are correct. The real problem i have always found is that its rarely answered and i become frustrated by the long long waits and or people ideas of my reasons for asking or insults.I read others asking about 190s or 109s etc and I see their threads arent answered either. I really do think you have the wrong idea about me but you continue to assume im here wearing a german uniform and imagining the 190 was the best plane of the war
.I quite simply dont. It
IS my favourite but is this a crime?? Please rethink your veiw.
