SPYING...........stop doing it FFS.....

[hazed-]

OK heres the present problem.

Its hard enough getting people to all cooperate for anything in here and often to get a mission going takes a lot more effort than was intented i think by HTC.
I think the idea was that we could all set up and rol missions and for it to help us work together.Missions are a lot of fun and when someone does take the time to set one up its usually enjoyed by all in it.

Heres the problem lately, Someone sets up a mission and almost as soon as they have launched their target area fills with me262s or La7s usually looking for an easy kill of goons etc.
The reason can only be either incredible coincidence or some moron has used 2 accounts and uses the inside information to gain position on the incoming attack.
Worse still are an organised attack by a group of players wit some player on the other team telling them where to go.

What are these people on?  They are gaming the game so they can get easy kills for themselves but in the process usually ruining the other peoples fun, putting them off ever trying them again and usually making them want to do the same dirty trick to get back at the ones who spied.

what good is this doing us all? absolutely no good at all.

Theres the arguement 'in war there are spies' or other such lame excuses for their cheating but i the war they didnt have spies with access to full plans 10 minutes before a raid and perfect instant comunication with the other sidewho, in turn didnt have to rely on a single player in a c47 to capture bases, this game is nothing like the real process.

Its a game and as such playing by rules is what CREATES the game or makes it worth playing. To use illegal moves in a game like chess or backgammon might make you appear to win but in the end you have actually 'WON' nothing!.

I guess what im getting at is that cheating or gaming the game is a sad way to behave in here. For those that wish to play this game with an equal amount of information as any other player AH is becoming rather silly. I mean honestly, if you was sitting opersite a guy playing cards and he is consistantly trying new ways to cheat you would soon get bored out of your mind! He may be thinking 'hahah ive beaten him again with my clever trick' but you would be thinking 'what a tool, I know what hes doing and theres no way to win unless I cheat as well'.Well thank you very much but i dont want to cheat or game the game because then the whole thing is pointless.

I dont want to know where the enemy is by any other means than what the GAME displays. What im asking here is that those players who DO use spying or tricks to fool the game or players to just stop and think about how truelly pointless and sad it is in the end. You may get your cheap win but no one is fooled by it when everyone knows how its been done.
for instance when you fly an under radar mission several sectors only to find 2 or 3 La7s all waiting at 500 foot or so hunting for your C47s and usually finding them due to knowing their waypoints.

Its getting so no one uses the waypoints in missions to plan, they have even had to quickly change a launch base just before starting in order to throw off the people reading the map room info. This causes all flights to default to hanger take off too so again the organised players suffer for it.

Anyhow I guess im just asking for a bit of fair play from these people. Dont sneak about and trick your way into winning! Most people who like to join missions would be perfectly happy to organise battles or even 'meeting' of 2 missions, for instance one country launches bombers the other country makes an intercept mission. This sort of thing is FINE!! Its not like the missions are always trying to avoid a fight but when they are designed to avoid radar they are supposed to be SECRET to that particular country.If the planner already knows the other country can see all his plans they wouldnt bother trying to stay under radar detection would they? If you see what i mean i hope you will also understand why im just asking politely for a bit of a change in attitude. We cant in any way monitor behaviour, but we can ask for a bit of honesty while we do play. If you dont play honestly I really believe you are damaging the game and its future success.
The more players join and discover that most of the features are not worth using, like mission planning and joining the more will choose not to stay (if this is what attracted them to the game in the first place of course).

Ill just finish by saying that i for one will never use information given to me by a player on another country whos trying to spoil a mission he can see. I have no desire to win anything in this game by cheating or gaming the game. If you would like to set up some missions where the targets ARE KNOWN to all then I will willingly set them up as long as players in both countries missions are aware the other side knows it. These can be fun too, but when a player wants to use under radar methods or needs suprise in order for success then I dont want to see their missions ruined by someone who decides spying is part of the game.It isnt and its a bit rich trying to claim it is,

pointless asking? I guess so but you never know.......

[WestyAH]

While I agree with your frustrations and concerns nothing will change. There are next to no tools to fix it and gamers will be just that.   So you might want to try and ambush the dweeby busherwackers. Call out for as mission, set it up and have it run but have a 2nd team in thw wings on a "silent" mission to smack down the spies and those they called to "up" to intercept the bait.

[Mini D]

This big red bar next to an undefended base is usually the best indicator a retarded 40 against none mission is inbound.

MiniD

[Krusher]

Private briefing rooms would help.

Also give the owner of the mission the ability to boot people from the room.


BTW I know what you mean by the la7s waiting at 500 ft for C47's. Tuesday I spen 45 min flying the long way around to target only to be spotted by an La7 on the back side of a island that was still 2 sectors away from tgt. It was my fault for giving pos reps on country channel rather than squad.

[Tilt]

Not exactly an endemic problem as I see it....................


Some may consider "winning" by avoiding combat gaming too......... mileages vary (tm someone)

However its pretty easy to 2nd guess where the goons will be (either behind the mass of incomings or  taking some route that "might" be away from the action).

When you see an opposition group become mission biased you can see the group move from mission to mission............

They rarely make a mission into an area of the map which is already under conflict, and when all of a sudden the mission group does not make a big dar bar some where you can assume a likelyhood of  an NOE approach. In big isles this is easier because the bar dar  sometimes flickers (in a sector with no AC base) on and off as the odd mission member pops in and out of dar.

Then it's time to launch the La7 / 262 to cherry pick the low incomings.

[aac]

What his real point is, I think, have some honor and pride in yourself.  Anyone with any personal honor would not tell whatever country he is flying for what the others in an opposing contry are doing,  even if he knew through the use of two accounts or having someone on another team tell him because they was mad at their countrymen.

I have personally seen messages on channel 1 telling people where porking missions was going.  Rather than use that information to defeat the mission I went to another base, several did not and defeated the mission after which there was considerable ranting on channel 1.

I have flown all three countries and have changed countries even while missions were in the planning stages or in the map room and you will never find anyone that will tell you that ab8aac gave them information about what was going on in the country he came from.

[lazs2]

once you leave the pure combat envelope and get into dweeby missun stuff you are bound to get things like spys and suicide porkers and such to go along with the whole timid (as deja so elequently puts it) 40 against none missunz to kill toolsheds.
lazs

[muckmaw]

hazed-

Your not going to find honor on the internet.

The best you can do is thwrt their efforts.

When we launch a mission, we never tell the pilots where it's lanuching from, and we never give out the target in advance.

Whenever possible, we take a route where one cannot determine where we are going from 2-3 bases that are possible targets.

The players in the mission get their target right before we make the last turn in.

Though not fool proof, the above does help. Also, many times, we will send 2-4 planes off toward a base we are not planning on hitting, just to set off the dar bar and draw the enemy resources away from the main strike.

Hope some of this helps. I've throughly enjoyed your missions in the past.

PS. Never use waypoints, or designate a target on the mission itself...but I think you know this already.

[john9001]

i was gona say what muck said, on some missions the target is changed 2-3 times in route.
spies are part of war.
trick the tricksters.

44MAG

[Grizzly]

I think Lazs and Tilt are right on this. As long as the prime objective is land capture, there will be those who will use any means available to grab bases and stop others from doing it. If the objective was to beat the enemy in a fight, all this nonesense we have to put up with will become pointless.

An enemy country might have 100 bases, with only ten of these in contention (hostilities in the area). So someone designs a mission to sneak into a unoccupied area to capture an unprotected base. But a spy rats on them and their attack is thwarted. This wouldn't matter if the countries were bent on winning a fight rather than grabbing real estate.

Underhanded tactics have always been a part of the game, and it's up to the community to deal with it. In the past we did this by taunting and humiliating these type of players on channel one. But in AH this can't happen because these tactics are considered appropriate to gain the prime objective. We have set the standards for game play and must now accept things like spies, porkers, auger dweebs, runners, alt monkeys, cherry pickers, milk runners, etc.

[Sandman]

So... somebody is using multiple accounts to watch the war and place enough resistance at a base to thwart a milkrun attack...


Not worth worrying about, IMHO.

[hazed-]

Originally posted by Tilt
Not exactly an endemic problem as I see it....................


Some may consider "winning" by avoiding combat gaming too......... mileages vary (tm someone)

However its pretty easy to 2nd guess where the goons will be (either behind the mass of incomings or  taking some route that "might" be away from the action).

When you see an opposition group become mission biased you can see the group move from mission to mission............

They rarely make a mission into an area of the map which is already under conflict, and when all of a sudden the mission group does not make a big dar bar some where you can assume a likelyhood of  an NOE approach. In big isles this is easier because the bar dar  sometimes flickers (in a sector with no AC base) on and off as the odd mission member pops in and out of dar.

Then it's time to launch the La7 / 262 to cherry pick the low incomings.

ahh i see its time to go cherry picking and NOT defend against the 40 people in the mission?

ahh i see thats how it works is it? so when people say they like to furball they really mean they like to go hunting goons ?
this is the exact behaviour that sucks. Rather than put something together to face those large missions head on people would rather seek to ruin them by nipping at the heels of a few goons.

yeah the missions are the real spoilers of fun aint they lol.

aac you hit the nail mate, i guess i am hoping for a bit of "honour amongst the theives", its pointless but i just want them to know it doesnt impress anyone.Just asking for overall 'fair play ' attitude.try not to game the game just because you can.

I posted this mainly because on private channel yesterday in the MA someone told me the launch base number and target of a mission in order to spoil it and I dont want to know info from what i consider cheating means.Not interested in winning by cheating because it then isnt a win at all.I may as well paint a wall to get that level of satisfaction.
Its not too common that it has ruined the game but someones doing it an awful lot more than most of us for it to have continued to be done so often.Maybe theres a few 2 accounters who might think 'you know what it is a sad thing to do' and stop doing it? who knows , we can only hope

[john9001]

<<>>

grizz , you forgot to mention "furball dweebs"

[Westy]

"<<>>    grizz , you forgot to mention "furball dweebs"


 Wah_luh!  Just add that last ingredient and now you got yourself  the recipe for "Main a Reena du Jour" as seen in AW, FA, WB's and AH.

[DmdNexus]

"but i the war they didnt have spies with access to full plans 10 minutes before a raid and perfect instant comunication with the other side"

Dude! Read a history book. Heck you might even learn something.

After the allies broke enigma, they knew every attack ordered by the German high command - instantly - before it was even launched!

The same was true when we broke the Japanese Purple code - we knew Midway was the target weeks before it happened.

At least whine with some intelligence - oh my a pun!
Or is that an oxymoron? An intelligent whine - yah oxymoron.

The more resistance the merrier - bring it on!