Author Topic: Evil Americans  (Read 1839 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2003, 04:17:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
No meat in that post.. it is the worst kind of propoganda. Use a logical mind to follow what is said. No connection is ever made between the countries listed and the 9 billion in foriegn aid. silly stuff really.

I guess Rip is pointing out how bad we are at buying votes in the UN?  

Guess we need to spend more.... logically speaking. Unless we don't care how these countries vote. Then pull the "money". But if we don't care then the post has no point...... hey!


The point is...why even give aid to countries whose population hate us? Why, they probably hate us because they think like our typical liberals do, they probably hate us because they *think* we're trying to buy em!  Cut em off..thats the meat of the post.  Keep the money for our own people that need it.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2003, 04:21:38 PM »
Here's where you all have missed the boat.....

The monies given have nothing to do with UN votes or politics. The money is given and in return information is transferred and a fragil control and balance is maintained. The US does not give monetary support for the reasons Americans might put forth....rather we give to stay engaged and that serves our interests.....not as warm and fuzzy as some might have thought, but still very necessary.

Has nothing to do with anything made for public consumption....that is simply the way it is and has been for decades.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 04:24:31 PM by Rude »

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2003, 07:08:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-
I was merely quoting the Fact sheet provided by the United States Mission to the United Nations verbatim. Got a problem with the wording, take it up with them (I think they're part of the State Department).


It dosnt matter if was googled off the white house web site, its still mostly hype.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 07:26:35 PM by Krusher »

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2003, 07:20:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Here's where you all have missed the boat.....

The monies given have nothing to do with UN votes or politics. The money is given and in return information is transferred and a fragil control and balance is maintained. The US does not give monetary support for the reasons Americans might put forth....rather we give to stay engaged and that serves our interests.....not as warm and fuzzy as some might have thought, but still very necessary.

Has nothing to do with anything made for public consumption....that is simply the way it is and has been for decades.


Thats pretty obvious for you and I Rude...we're not evil by any means..someone gets it finally.

Offline Frogm4n

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« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2003, 07:24:37 PM »
the fact remains that the saudis are still untouchable when it comes to their responsiblitys in 9/11 and funding terrorists worldwide.

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2003, 07:25:44 PM »
double post  sorry

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2003, 02:55:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
It dosnt matter if was googled off the white house web site, its still mostly hype.
So presumably you know the truth about the UN, whereas the US Mission to the UN is merely hyping the UN? - Your facts are not looking too good so far:

Quote
Fact  some countries routinely pay nothing.. that's right nothing in dues. Under UN rules a country that forfeits its dues is not supposed to be able to vote. Name one country other than the USA that has either had its vote cut off or has been threatened with it? For the last few years the UN has threatened (LOL) to cut off the US vote not because they didn't pay dues, but because they have not been paying the full amount for peace keeping missions.
Smells like conjecture to me. Let's see:
Here is article 19, the UN rules you refer to:
Quote
A Member of the United Nations which is in arrears in the payment of its financial contributions to the Organization shall have no vote in the General Assembly if the amount of its arrears equals or exceeds the amount of the contributions due from it for the preceding two full years. The General Assembly may, nevertheless, permit such a Member to vote if it is satisfied that the failure to pay is due to conditions beyond the control of the Member.
You'll note the last sentence means that the general assembly can exempt members from this, so it's looking good for you so far.

Hmmm. France and Russia have both been threatened when they refused to pay for certain peacekeeping missions in the mid 1960s, but a compromise was reached and the arrears were paid into special funds. After this and a similar case involving China, the US insisted that article 19 sanctions be automatically applied (although countries can appeal to the budget committee). Uh-oh not looking so good for you - but can we name names of countries banned from voting as your challenge requires?

Oh dear. Apparently, in May 1998 when the US was just approaching being two years in arrears, 26 countries did not have a vote in the UN General Assembly because they were two years behind in their assessments. Examples include Burundi, Niger, and Cambodia. Member states are usually informed of their position with respect to Article 19 in late October. Subsequently, many make just enough contributions to prevent the loss of their vote when the General Assembly session resumes to wrap-up business the following spring. A member state can have its voting rights reinstated whenever enough dues are paid to cross the two-year threshold. Ouch 26 countries, and three names! Source

So it's looking like your "fact" is actually "hype" - or at least a rather shaky supposition (it may perhaps even be outright nonsense) - perhaps you could help us out - and name a few of the countries that "routinely" (shall we say that means the past 10 years?) pay nothing and still have a vote in the general assembly. Because I'm sure all these confusing figures and names from the UN and the US are still all just hype, eh?

And as much is made of the US contributing 22% of UN costs and whether or not this is really that unfair, given that the US is estimated at 25% of world income?
An interesting comparision is the EU: The 15 member states of the European Union account for 30.8% of world income, but are assessed 36.2% of UN costs (source as above).

And whilst the US is number one country in terms of actual cash:

Top 10 Member States in assessment for the UN regular budget, 2002

  Assessment rates Amount
Country (per cent) ($millions)
United States 22.000  283.1
Japan  19.669 218.4
Germany  9.845 109.3
France  6.516 72.4
United Kingdom  5.579 62.0
Italy  5.104 56.7
Canada  2.579 28.6
Spain  2.539 28.2
Brazil  2.093 23.2  
Republic of Korea  1.866  20.7

Per capita the US doesn't even make the top 10:

Top 10 per capita contributors to the UN regular budget, 2002

Country ($amount)
Luxembourg  2.15
Liechtenstein  2.13
Japan  1.74
Norway  1.65  
Denmark  1.60
Monaco  1.38
Iceland  1.35
Germany  1.34  
Austria  1.31
Sweden  1.30

BTW the UN regular budget is approximately $1.3 Billion

Looks to me like Japan should be the one whinging - all that cash spent and no representation - no permanent seat on the Security Council or a veto. But they aren't - probably because all in all, it's pretty much peanuts. The total annual spending for the whole of the UN system* (about $12 billion) is about the same as the annual budget of the New York City Board of Education ($12.4 billion FY 2001).
Source for tables and last para

*Including the United Nations, UN peacekeeping operations, the programmes and funds, and the specialized agencies, but excluding the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD).
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2003, 03:56:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz

..... can I call you an "Ameriwhiner"?



Nordork! :D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2003, 04:16:06 AM by Tumor »
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline SLO

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« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2003, 07:04:01 AM »
you think that just because you give money, you think you can buy some votes......that what your saying RIP:rolleyes:

you seem too forget the Democratic process....

free choice too make up your own mind.....

take the money away.....and you will see more much more terrorist.....

your not giving em money for votes my friend...your giving em money so they can keep there country stable and relatively free of extremism......

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2003, 07:07:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-
So presumably you know the truth about the UN, whereas the US Mission to the UN is merely hyping the UN? - Your facts are not looking too good so far:

 Smells like conjecture to me. Let's see:
Here is article 19, the UN rules you refer to:
 You'll note the last sentence means that the general assembly can exempt members from this, so it's looking good for you so far.

Source

Source for tables and last para

 [/SIZE]


As of the year 2000 1 out of 4 UN memebers paid no dues.
45 states that have temporarily lost their right to vote in the General Assembly because they owe more than 2 years' worth of dues. In 1999 the International court (rebuking the US BTW) called failure to pay dues a violation of international law. Even though the US had actually paid 1.6 billion with the majority of money they owed being for peackeeping duties. The US supplied most of the Equipment and transportation fees for UN peace keepers but refused to pay any more until the UN reformed its finances. Basicly the UN was told quit wasting our money. BTW the International court failed to mention the other 50+ UN members that paid NO dues.

In 2003 the UN started sesion with only  10 members paying full dues. Why should the US be any different. Better yet why should we continue to pay money to a useless orginaization.


google away...  I am out.

Offline milnko

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Re: Evil Americans
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2003, 11:00:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
From the Journal News, United States gives out $13.3 billion tax dollars in direct foreign aid annually. The United States is above and beyond the single most generous benefactor of the United Nations, donating $2.4 billion dollars of your money, to primarily third world dictators.
Notice it says "direct foreign aid" which implies that it is money that has no relationship to the UN.

That is what bothers me, not how much we spend on the UN, because as a citizen country of the world community it's appropriate that we be a memeber of the UN'

However, I do have a problem with "donating" money to countries that don't support free elections or whose creed dictates intolerance of differing religious beliefs. In other words "ANTI-US/AMERICAN" behavior.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2003, 11:11:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-
So presumably you know the truth about the UN, whereas the US Mission to the UN is merely hyping the UN? - Your facts are not looking too good so far:

 Smells like conjecture to me. Let's see:
Here is article 19, the UN rules you refer to:
 You'll note the last sentence means that the general assembly can exempt members from this, so it's looking good for you so far.

Hmmm. France and Russia have both been threatened when they refused to pay for certain peacekeeping missions in the mid 1960s, but a compromise was reached and the arrears were paid into special funds. After this and a similar case involving China, the US insisted that article 19 sanctions be automatically applied (although countries can appeal to the budget committee). Uh-oh not looking so good for you - but can we name names of countries banned from voting as your challenge requires?

Oh dear. Apparently, in May 1998 when the US was just approaching being two years in arrears, 26 countries did not have a vote in the UN General Assembly because they were two years behind in their assessments. Examples include Burundi, Niger, and Cambodia. Member states are usually informed of their position with respect to Article 19 in late October. Subsequently, many make just enough contributions to prevent the loss of their vote when the General Assembly session resumes to wrap-up business the following spring. A member state can have its voting rights reinstated whenever enough dues are paid to cross the two-year threshold. Ouch 26 countries, and three names! Source

So it's looking like your "fact" is actually "hype" - or at least a rather shaky supposition (it may perhaps even be outright nonsense) - perhaps you could help us out - and name a few of the countries that "routinely" (shall we say that means the past 10 years?) pay nothing and still have a vote in the general assembly. Because I'm sure all these confusing figures and names from the UN and the US are still all just hype, eh?

And as much is made of the US contributing 22% of UN costs and whether or not this is really that unfair, given that the US is estimated at 25% of world income?
An interesting comparision is the EU: The 15 member states of the European Union account for 30.8% of world income, but are assessed 36.2% of UN costs (source as above).

And whilst the US is number one country in terms of actual cash:

Top 10 Member States in assessment for the UN regular budget, 2002

  Assessment rates Amount
Country (per cent) ($millions)
United States 22.000  283.1
Japan  19.669 218.4
Germany  9.845 109.3
France  6.516 72.4
United Kingdom  5.579 62.0
Italy  5.104 56.7
Canada  2.579 28.6
Spain  2.539 28.2
Brazil  2.093 23.2  
Republic of Korea  1.866  20.7

Per capita the US doesn't even make the top 10:

Top 10 per capita contributors to the UN regular budget, 2002

Country ($amount)
Luxembourg  2.15
Liechtenstein  2.13
Japan  1.74
Norway  1.65  
Denmark  1.60
Monaco  1.38
Iceland  1.35
Germany  1.34  
Austria  1.31
Sweden  1.30

BTW the UN regular budget is approximately $1.3 Billion

Looks to me like Japan should be the one whinging - all that cash spent and no representation - no permanent seat on the Security Council or a veto. But they aren't - probably because all in all, it's pretty much peanuts. The total annual spending for the whole of the UN system* (about $12 billion) is about the same as the annual budget of the New York City Board of Education ($12.4 billion FY 2001).
Source for tables and last para

*Including the United Nations, UN peacekeeping operations, the programmes and funds, and the specialized agencies, but excluding the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD).


Hey Mr. Dead.....many of us don't care what you think. It's not our responsibility to suck you hind tit or anyone elses....the measurement in only hard currency of our support over time is convenient to your cause, but lacks the telling of the whole story.

It's continued statements from folks like you that make some Americans wish our cash contribution could be offered in the form of our boot in your mouth.

I wish I had the big button....I'de clean this town up and send all of you whiney foreigners to some other bbs. I can respect the opinions of my fellow countrymen even if I don't agree with them...you however, haven't earned the right to stand in judgement over me and mine.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2003, 11:36:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats pretty obvious for you and I Rude...we're not evil by any means..someone gets it finally.


ROFL...

Rip you are a piece of work man.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2003, 11:54:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
ROFL...

Rip you are a piece of work man.


You don't think that I know what the UN is for? Christ MT, you amaze me! They *do* teach you what the function is of the UN in the midwest, you dufus. :)  I don't always agree with what the UN does, but the U.S. does pump money in for our best national interests...we learned long ago what happens when you become a isolationist country.  I'm actually pro-UN, but I'd definately cut back on the $$'s we spend on it.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2003, 11:55:34 AM »
Rude, SPOT ON on your posts!