Author Topic: boring pizza  (Read 2494 times)

Offline kappa

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boring pizza
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2003, 01:19:16 AM »
Pizza a good map?? Sure it is.... A good map for my doggy to poop on!!
- TWBYDHAS

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2003, 04:32:05 AM »
Steve,

I don't know whether I should be talking to a probationer, but as Lazs hasn't replied, I'll talk to you. Please understand one thing. This is an interesting thread, and I don't want to see it locked because you've run your mouth. So be careful what you say.
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Well, you disagree w/ Rude's opinion on the pizza map... I disagree w/ you on the smaller maps. w/ fields closer together , the fights are easier to get to, ergo easier to find in early war planes.
Oh sure. So convincing, coming from someone whose ride of choice is the P51D.
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Why wouldn't you want enemies to find you sooner as opposed to later? If it only takes five minutes to find an enemy, one can only surmise that one can get in more fights. More fights means more furballs.
I think you know well enough the reason. When a battle is taking place between two fields, and someone is aggrieved at being shot down, he goes and gets an überplane from a field which, on the children's maps might be 5 minutes away from the action, but is not the field from which the battle is being fought. Then he'll come in with a 10K alt advantage, quite possibly in an LA7, and use the fact that the E state of the guy who shot him might be worn down after minutes in the combat area. The pizza map discourages that dweebery in two ways. First, the fields are more than 5 minutes apart which is as it should be. The kidz and the wanktardz don't have the attention span to fly more than 5 minutes to reach the "action".  And second, LA7's don't like the high alt conditions to be found on the pizza. Muhahaha! :D
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Beet1e, I have no doubt you can find films with good fights on the pizza map. Wuld you like me to start posting an equal number of films where I can't find a good fight?
I can't provide negative proof. But I can show that there's plenty of action on the pizza, if you know where to look and don't mind flying there to find it. I think your problem might be the children's map induced attention span deficit syndrome.

You're right about the k/d stuff. It does not belong in this thread. I had to include mine as a rebuttal to Lazs's horse crap.

As for my statement "You come out with statements that are patently false", that was addressed to Lazs, not Rude. But OK, if anyone has difficulty finding fights on the pizza map, he should say that. But instead, some folks state, quite categorically, that "there are no fights on the pizza map". And as my films amply demonstrate, that is patently false.
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This is an interesting quote Beet1e. A g10 is faster than a pony where most fights take place, climbs better, and had more lethal guns. Explain to me why you will fly a g10 but not a pony.
It's an individuality thing. The person who could explain that to you best can be seen driving the Lotus 7 in my avatar pic. The hordz fly the P51D. I won't insult you by saying what I think the D stands for as it's your favourite plane. But it's not much of a challenge IMO. I used to fly it in AH, but it made me feel like I was clubbing seals. The 109G10 is much more of a challenge - doesn't roll or turn as well as the pony, and has a sluggish elevator which stops responding altogether if you do much more than 400mph. It's much harder to get results in the G10, especially with the spud cannon. You have to close to less than 300 yards, and not spray from 800 yards. I don't want to turn this into a Lazs-style k/d-k/t pissing contest, but I notice you have an excellent k/d of better than 20/1 in the P51D. But in other planes you don't do nearly as well. Indeed, the only other plane in which you get better than 4/1 is the F6F at 7½/1. I think that proves my point. QED, I should say. :D But the G10 armament is only more lethal than the P51 if the spud cannon is used (very difficult weapon to master) or gondolas, which impair performance and might make the G10 perform less well than the P51.

The gun question was directed at Lazs, not Rude, and I think you know this. ;)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2003, 08:09:22 AM »
So you explain your obvious mistake with another  mistake?

And I see you don't make the first move.. in fact, you don't make the 607th either.

I have a solution however.  :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2003, 08:17:57 AM »
beetle... I don't know why you make patently false statements but i think that you might belive them and that is why you see the arena so much differently than most folks.   It is indeed harder to find a decent furball on the pizza map..  one only has to watch the text buffer to se how slowly kill messages appear on pizza compared to the other maps.  I find it hard to believe that yu don't notice that.

I never said you were a rank skilless dweeb... you are not being truthful again... I said that despite all your bragging and posting of only your very best sorties..... you are, like me.... mediocre... perhaps even a little more mediocre than me and much more timid.   Slapshot points out how clueless you are about furballs in the fact that you panicked when people were above yu.... you HAD to attack...   for me and other furballers.... haveing planes above us is no big deal... the hard part is getting em to come down so we can kill em.

you want to point out that you are doing better than your stats show.... you are... everyone is because everyone skews their K/D with deaths agains GV's, fluffs, ack etc.  You want to compare apples to oranges..  

you don't like furballs... it boils down to.... those who don't do furballs or like em think that there are plenty of furballs in pizza... those who like furballs and do em.... think that pizza is the worst.

I bet if HTC posted stats for each map on kills per hour that pizza would be the worst by a large margin.  
lazs

Offline Rude

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« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2003, 09:31:59 AM »
It all boils down to this....

I don't have the level of respect for those who are cherry pickers...if you're having fun cherry picking then I'm happy for you, just don't expect some of us to respect what you do.

Ya see, furballers like myself or Lazs, Levi, Shane, WT and a host of others can kill and survive against lopside odds and other disadvantages and also can cherry pick, jabo, buffdrive, float in boats, etc.

The cherry pickers game is one dimensional....as long as you have the advantage, you can experience success....that is unless you fight one of the multi-skilled furballers, in which case your arse will be handed to you.

So, don't feel bad and please stop being so defensive...I too, could at one time only handle fights my way....now, being a superior pilot has brought a form of loneliness...you know...being at the top kinda thing.

:)

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2003, 10:03:00 AM »
"I think you know well enough the reason. When a battle is taking place between two fields, and someone is aggrieved at being shot down, he goes and gets an überplane from a field which, on the children's maps might be 5 minutes away from the action, but is not the field from which the battle is being fought. Then he'll come in with a 10K alt advantage, quite possibly in an LA7, and use the fact that the E state of the guy who shot him might be worn down after minutes in the combat area. The pizza map discourages that dweebery in two ways. First, the fields are more than 5 minutes apart which is as it should be. The kidz and the wanktardz don't have the attention span to fly more than 5 minutes to reach the "action". And second, LA7's don't like the high alt conditions to be found on the pizza. Muhahaha!"

Come on beet1e ... who are you trying to kid here.

If I shoot down someone in an F6F with my Spit V in a furball, he will be hard pressed to return to the furball and single me out in his now "late war" ride. Even if he did, he would never get a good angle on my unless he brings 3 or more of this "late war" buddies along with him.

When it comes to the La-7 ... I fart in its direction. La-7s only worry those who choose to run and not fight. The runners, timid flyers, and those who only BnZ are the ones that lament and lose hair over the La-7s existence. They can't hit-and-run with impunity when the La-7 is around and that pisses them off. On the other hand, La-7s run from the Spit V.

As for Steve, I have seen him lately strapping on the FM2 and doing a damn good job in it ... I <> him for that. Mr. BnZ himself, down in the weeds mixin it up and I'll bet he is having a blast. He is following the path of the 13th TAS who were utlimate BnZers and are now probably one of the best "weed wackin" squads out there.

Try the Spit V or the FM-2 for awhile (more than a week) Beet1e ... you will see this game from a completely different aspect.
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2003, 12:14:25 PM »
Three posts since my last one, all of which seem to be criticising the way I play this game. What happened to "freedom", and the "it's my $14.95" movement? Funny how certain people seize on those old mantra - when it suits... :D
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beetle... I don't know why you make patently false statements but i think that you might belive them and that is why you see the arena so much differently than most folks. It is indeed harder to find a decent furball on the pizza map.. one only has to watch the text buffer to se how slowly kill messages appear on pizza compared to the other maps. I find it hard to believe that yu don't notice that.
Well Lazs, it's easy. Unlike you, I don't make a direct correlation between "lotz of killz" and quality gameplay. As I said in another thread, the last time I was online for a map change, I saw some worthy battles going on (Trinity I think). As soon as the arena came back up with the children's maps, it was right back to the kiddie pie throwing contest, pork-n-auger, suicide fuel pork, suicide CV crap. I logged off immediately. I don't see that hordes of TYPHs augering into the ack and maybe taking a ping or two from the FG or waiting GVs makes for the kind of game I want, even though it floods the text buffer with "lotz of killz". By the way, I've only seen one field this week porked back to 25% fuel.

No I didn't panic when I saw the higher LA7, 190 and 205. I flew straight to them with a plan of attack which worked. I killed the LA7 and later killed the 190. Of course, were you to have viewed the film, you would know that. But no. It suits you far better to sit there in your silk blindfold, reiterating the old refrain: "Don't blind me with the facts. I know what I'm talking about." So you enjoy yourself. You have your makebelieve, I have my facts/films. We're both happy. It's a win-win. :D

Hello, Rude! :) I thought you'd complied with my earlier instruction to piss off!  LOL, ! Welcome back!
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Ya see, furballers like myself or Lazs, Levi, Shane, WT and a host of others can kill and survive against lopside odds and other disadvantages and also can cherry pick, jabo, buffdrive, float in boats, etc.
Oh the name dropping. Oh the hero worship... Yeah, right. Last time I saw you dive on two N1Ks, you didn't last long. But hey, this is off topic. This thread is about finding fights on the pizza map. I have done what I can to show that it's BS to say that there are "no fights" on the pizza. If you guys want to digress into topics like flying styles, stats/scores, cherrypicking etc., that's up to you. But I'm trying to stay on topic from now on, especially as this thread is almost done. And the fact is that there ARE fights to be found on the pizza map, much to the chagrin of the bananas who can't find them.

Sure, if I have an energy advantage in a 109, I'm going to use it. What do you expect me to do? Kill a con, then throttle back and drop flaps at 1K while whistling a happy tune? Your techniques might work in the FM2, but I prefer to fly the energy fighters. Always have, right since 1998. Admittedly, there are times when I feel that I might be seal clubbing. That's why I never fly the P51 any more. And that's why I changed down a couple of gears to the 109G2 the other night. But flying planes like that in low turnfights would be plain daft, so don't pretend to suggest otherwise. At least I fly planes that are a challenge, and not the overused subset of P51/LA7/Spit9 etc. Now the 109F4 in a low turnfight - that I will consider... ;)

Slapshot - not sure if something got lost in the translation about how I handled that LA7, but to me it sounded like you thought I did the right thing. But you disagreed with what I said about the cherrypicker coming back from a different field in a better plane than he was in before. But it's no BS. There's even a thread on here in which a guy admits to doing exactly that - came at me in an LA7 from a different field after my F4U had shot down his 109.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2003, 12:36:55 PM »
Beetle....I told ya before re: the two Niki's....the phone rang.:)

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2003, 01:42:08 PM »
Beet1e ... your idea/definition of a "fight" is no where near what we call a "fight" and thats the real dividing point in this discussion/thread.

Rude and his doods were masters of E fighting. They know all too well what you are describing as a "fight", so when Rude disagrees that he can't find a "fight", its not the fight that you embrace.

High energy E fights are not what we are looking for. We don't want bases farther apart so that we can climb up on a high perch and pick off the unsuspecting or already engaged bogie.

If I get above 6000 ft AGL I start to freak out and my nose starts to bleed. Lazs, Rude, and the other pilots that we "worship" very rarely get above 5-6 K. Anything and everything we want to do is all done within that airspace, so there is no need for us to see bases 1 to 1.5 sectors apart.

The 13th TAS took the leap when the FM2 was released, they grabbed that 'ole weed wacker and haven't looked back since. Occasionally you will see those dweebs in a Pony, but for the most part they are flying early war planes that can't run and are forced to fight 1 vs 1 or 1 vs X.

Again, grab one of the early war weed wackers (FM2, P40, Spit V, C202, Hurri-C to name a few) and spend a week or two below 6K and then come back and tell us you are finding all sorts of fights (and film some of them 6 kill sorties too).
SlapShot - Blue Knights

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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2003, 02:36:21 PM »
beetle... no hero worship here at all...  what yu are seeing is people who understand your style from a lot of personal experiance and obsevation telling you that.... well.... you don't really know what yu are talking about...   As for me....

I claim no skill.. I have a blast... the guys like slap may talk about me because... they see me... they are doing the same as me.   they see me all the time and they see how I fly.   Sometmes I do fair.   I see a lot of the same guys... 13th guys, slap, mars, wadke BK's swagger etc etc....   they are all probly better at this than I am but I sure enjoy their company...   with the boring maps I don't get to fly with/against these guys...  We laugh and joke on 1 and kid each other and, actually do, steal kills from each other... we shoot cons off each other and all those guys get multiple kills when they are the lowest plane in the fur and have a 3/1 dissadvantage.    So yeah....

given all that....your bragging is kinda annoying .   It's like rut acting like he understands..... anything.

lazs
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2003, 03:44:47 PM »
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Beet1e ... your idea/definition of a "fight" is no where near what we call a "fight" and thats the real dividing point in this discussion/thread.
Slap - thank you for this explanation. Unfortunately, it has come too late in the thread to carry any significant weight, in light of what has gone before.

The "no fights on the pizza map" argument/whine has undergone a metamorphosis. It became "no fights on the pizza map that I can find", then "no fights on the pizza map that I can find and that I like", then "no fights on the pizza map that I can find and that I like and that involve early war planes" and then "no fights on the pizza map that I can find, that I like, that involve early war planes not exceeding 6K".
Just as I thought, there's an agenda at work here. Well that's hardly surprising, given the squad affiliation of the most vociferous posters...

What does kind of surprise me is that most of the BKs and TAS, with the important exception of Apache, are opposed to an RPS. And yet an RPS would give these guys just what they are looking for - an arena in which their T&B furballing skills could be deployed to the fullest extent.

Lazs,

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beetle... no hero worship here at all... what yu are seeing is people who understand your style from a lot of personal experiance and obsevation telling you that.... well.... you don't really know what yu are talking about... As for me....
Stop being a salamander. You don't know what I'm talking about because it doesn't fit in with your erroneous beliefs, and your limited vision as a result of the silk blindfold you wear.

Just to spell it out, I have done two things in this thread -
  • Totally refuted the mistaken belief that there are "no fights" on the pizza map.
  • Provided film evidence to substantiate my claims.
It really is that simple, so if you still don't understand it, maybe it's not Rutilant's powers of comprehension that are in question. Maybe it's yours.

Offline Steve

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« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2003, 04:00:16 PM »
Beet1e, thank you for that heartwarming opening in your response to me.

Beet1e:
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Oh sure. So convincing, coming from someone whose ride of choice is the P51D.


Actually, I have almost twice as many sorties this tour in the FM2 and spitV as I do in a pony.  Additionally, since I'm too lazy to climb past 10 or 12k AGL, I frequently engage higher fighters in my pony.  In fact, I was with you near the deck over an enemy base the other day, high bogies kept coming in.... even a 262. Don't know if you remember, but I stuck around and fought both the uppers and the high guys..in all likelihood these were guys that we had killed, and were returning high for a measure of revenge.

Beet1e:
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Then he'll come in with a 10K alt advantage, quite possibly in an LA7, and use the fact that the E state


While I agree this is a crappy thing to do, he may have been in an la7 in the first place.  I don't mind fighting guys w/ more E, I've learned that most people really don't know how to really make use of an advantageous E state.

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You're right about the k/d stuff. It does not belong in this thread.

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I notice you have an excellent k/d of better than 20/1 in the P51D. But in other planes you don't do nearly as well. Indeed, the only other plane in which you get better than 4/1 is the F6F at 7½/1


*sigh*
Well I will address my K/D since you brought it up. Except when I forgot to press the attack buttion,  my fighter stats are for the pony, and the attack stats are for the rest.  You once complained that others were misrepresenting your K/D.  well here you are doing the EXACT same thing to me. What you don't know about my stats other than the pony is that for the last couple tours in the spitV and FM2 I have been "fightin anywhere, any time".  This includes often upping at vulched fields,  fighting multiple high bad guys etc.  In fact, I'll look for a friendly base w/a large enemy darbar in the sector so I know I'll get instant action. Frequently this means I'm fighting from the time I press "go".   I'm doing this for fun and to learn these two planes.  so you're tright my K/d isn't that great., but I'm learning and having a ton of fun at the same time.
as for my pony stats I say this to you:  You claim that flying a pony is like:
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But it's not much of a challenge IMO. I used to fly it in AH, but it made me feel like I was clubbing seals


Tell you what., I'll lay down the gauntlet for you or anyone who cares to take it up: Fly a pony for a tour, maintain a k/d of as little as 10/1, say a K/S of 4 or better, and a K/T of 9 or better; then tell me it is like clubbing baby seals.  Save the excuses about how it's boring or you don't want to but until you've done it, you really cannot be critical of the plane or me. By the way, since you've chosen to bring up stats:  On your best tour in a pony, you almost reached a k/d of 4/1.  You almost reached a K/T of 5 once.  In  other words,  you definitely weren't getting the best of what a pony can offer as far as fighting goes. This is typical of people who bag on the pony. My K/T is typically double or triple what yours was in the pony, indicating I fly it much differently than you did.  Walk in my shoes, get my results, then talk about seals.

Edit:  Beet1e, considering the less than friendly tone of this thread I think I need to clarify:  My comparison of your stats and mine is not a comparsion of skills but rather of fighting style.  What I mean is, one can "club baby seals" in any plane. Do what it takes to get your K/T close to 10 in a pony and I think you'll see that it isn't quite the "gimme" as many folk make it out to be.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 05:07:52 PM by Steve »
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Offline AKcurly

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« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2003, 04:00:52 PM »
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So, if you want to carry on imaginary discussions with someone, press on. You might want to use "Harvey" though.


I want a show of hands!  Who understands Toad's "Harvey" reference?

Toad, have you ever noticed how Lazs' nose twitches like a bunny when he sees an opportunity to "Seagull?"  (flying over objects and crapping on them.)

curly

Offline Steve

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« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2003, 04:04:35 PM »
:::raises hand:::

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Offline AKcurly

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« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2003, 04:10:03 PM »
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Originally posted by Steve
:::raises hand:::

Invisible rabbit


Damn, Steve. :)  You're an old fart too. :)

curly