BBS sampling/opinion re CT

[lazs2]

still.... wouldn't the FM2 be a great substitute for the f4f-3?   I mean..... they use the fm2 for a buffalo substitute fer chrisakes.
lazs

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Shane
if you're not a regular Combat Theatre player, why not? what keeps you out of CT or from coming back on a regular basis?

I like to fly a variety of planes.  Almost always, this includes rides like 190a5, p51d, typhoon.  It would be an unusual CT setup that permitted me to do that.

As an aside, I suspect AH TOD will go the same way as the CT:  Initial enthusiasm and then slackening participation.

I'll bet AHClassic will have 90% of the participants within 6 months.

Don't get me wrong - I really enjoy "squad ops" (used to be TOD), but more than once a week would grow stale in a big hurry.

curly

[Rude]

I asked for complete control of the CT once....Skuzzy had to hang up due to laughter.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by AKcurly
I like to fly a variety of planes.  Almost always, this includes rides like 190a5, p51d, typhoon.  It would be an unusual CT setup that permitted me to do that.

curly

Being able to fly a variety of planes is one of the best things about the CT.  At times, the 202, 110c, Hurri I, F4F, P-51D, or 109G-2 can be very competitive and fun to fly.  It's hard to get into a plane rut because the set changes every week.

In the CT, planes can be effectivly flown using the their historical tactics.  Sure, sometimes you'll still see P-47s furballing low and waves of KI-67s dive bombing CVs.  However, you at least get a better sense of how each plane stacked up against some of its historical opponents.  

eskimo

[F4UDOA]

Batz,

The F4F is an FM-2 just as a TBM and TBF are the same and F4U and FG-1 are the same. The FM-2 is a hell of alot closer to the F4F-4 than the KI-67 is to the Betty.

And yes the NIK2 is frequently matched against it.

And for the record.

You are saying that you have not excluded the F4U from the Solomon campains because it's not "fair"?

And in Okinawa you had it set so a F6F and F4U could only fly off of one carrier at a time. Not both, why? Not fair?

[Batz]

Fm2 is not the same as an f4f-4 and when the the fm2 is in the ct it doesnt face the niki alone. Post one ct set up where thats true.

I can post many of the pac setups where the a6m5 was it against the entire us plane set. Every other person in ah claims a Navy squad. There are few that fly japanese planes. Pac set ups that dont account for some level of parity are empty. Its no fun chasing runners about.

I am not on the ct staff and havent been for a year. Theres like 5 guys that are ct cms, sell your desired set up to them. I never would have bought it when I was on the ct staff and I am pretty sure brady and possibly fork wont buy it either. But try the other guys.

The only time the f4u-1 was in the slot map was when it faced the a6m2. Folks would fly it three sectors to club baby seals. It was only added to defend hq to begin with.

The tbf had different guns then the tbm-3. So did the sbd-3 have different guns then the sbd-5. Thats what widewing wont tell ya and thats whet you are denying here. The type 99 mk 1s in ah lose 40% of their lethality at 180 yrds.  An a6m2 fighting an f4u-1 is 0 fun. You have to close inside 200 yrds on a plane thats 50 mph faster and then you only get 120 rounds. Comparing the "peggy" to any of that is nonsense.

The complaint about the peggy is its guns, the betty would be armed similiarly so whats the problem? Certainly the peggy is closer to the betty then the ju-88. Its not like you ever have to attack the bombers anyway.

In okinawa the us carriers would be unsinkable but for how the "admirals" choose to use them. Its has nothing to do with fair. I always see plenty of f6fs and f4us of all types when I flew in the Okinawa map. The fleets even when sunk only start 2 and a half sector south of okinawa. A fleet travels 1/3 rd a sector in 12 min.  Its not like it remains out of action for the day. It sux for both sides when a cv sunk because it usually ends a good fight.

In the current Scenario "Operation Iceberg" theres every f4u in ah in the event. Same with the fm2. The difference is in how events are structured that make the plane match ups fun. In an open anything goes arena like the ct there is no "historical" gameplay. Folks arent in the ah military and they wont suffer through some un-fun set up even if the plane match ups are "historical". With out fun "historical" is meaningless to 90% of the players.

Ofcourse you can tout how fun it would be clubbing a6m2s out of the air in an f4u-1 but thats easy from the f4u-1s pit.

like I said maybe one of the ct cms will buy it.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Shane
if you're not a regular Combat Theatre player, why not? what keeps you out of CT or from coming back on a regular basis?

Honestly... I usually forget it's there.  Always have a good time in the CT, but not a "great" time.  I think I'd like the CT better if the whole planeset was available based on an Allied/Axis approach, or not.. .I dunno.

...hmmm, a really neato idea (considering the Hugenormous maps available) might be geographic areas for early/mid/late war stuff.... well, probably not big enough maps but it would be neat.

[F4UDOA]

Batz,

1. Substituting a FM-2 for a F4F is to great a leap but a Ki-67 for a Betty is not?

2. Who cares if the FM-2 vrs NIK2 match is alone or not. It happens all the time. And Since you refused to allow the F4U to be flown off ground bases but you would have the FM-2 fly from ground bases. Why? I don't think the FM-2 ever fought from a ground station and the F4U did. I guess it is more fun for you to vulch FM-2 Huh?

3. The F4U vrs A6M2/5 is one of the most historic matches of WW2. Think anyone who read the Black Sheep Squadron or Jolly Rodgers would want to fly it? It's not up to you and your fairness meter. It's not fair that one ping from a 20mil in AH knocks your wing off. Maybe you should disable cannons in the CT? Turn the ack off of the fleet so you can bomb it easier.

4. No F4U-1C's were allowed? Why, not fair? Don't like cannons shells hitting your NIK2? And the C-hog was at Okinawa. What is your excuse for that?

With out fun "historical" is meaningless to 90% of the players.

No wonder you fly Axis. You think just like them. The fun police must follow the fun rules, screw history. 90% really? Why don't you let the players decide what they want instead of you telling us. You said the Okinawa campain was one of the most flown. Why? Because people are dying to fly NIK2's in the CT? Use your head.

[Rude]

You're not upset are ya?

[SunKing]

I join the CT only when BOB is up. The setup is challanging on both sides and seems fair to me. All the other maps/setting turn into a gangbang. Especially the Pac maps as Axis.

[JB73]

my experience in the CT is not alot, but....

[LIST=1]

• it sounds silly but i HATE yak's and they ALWAYS seem to be what i'm up against.
• i find some of the planesets limiting. meaning not always best suited for the role. (ie. 109g6 instead of a g2 vs spit V.. where the 109g2 would be a much better matchup)
• if its supposed to be "historic" whay are there gangbangs going on mostly (from my time in there) no orginization to the "war"

other than that i just dont wanna be told what i can and cant fly since i'm paying to have fun and escape from the real world.

[Batz]

Cry all ya want but you are wrong. I have nothing to do with the CT setups.

Whats the differences between the peggy and betty? You tell me whats so "unbalancing". Bombers for both sides for the most part have no impact in the slot setups. Do you even know how hard it is to capture a field? The boston iii used by the allies in that setup is much faster below 15k then the peggy. All Japanese planes carry a similiar load and the peggy and betty are similiarly gunned. Like widewing you ignore the benefits gained by the allies due to a mostly late war planeset and as soon as the axis get a similiar sub something must be done to change it.

"Too many nikis blah blah blah...."
"The peggy is to hard blah blah blah"...

In Operation Iceberg Scenario the chog and the f4u-4 are there even though their impact of the battle was minimal. Were the chog to be added in the open ct arena thats all you would see folks flying. The would have a greater impact on gameplay then the 200 or so had in rl. You keep ignoring "gameplay". Balancing the overwhelming jabo capability of the usn planeset is neccessary because of the limited number of airfield on Okinawa itself. If cant believe that unlimited navy planes from every base would unbalance the weeks fun you are havent been paying attention.

I can see how you would want a chog against a a6m5 or ki-61 etc. Like I said every 2nd guy in ah claims a usn squad. Theres a reason for that. The best of the usn planes are modelled.

Be pissed all you want it still wont make a6m2s vrs f4u-1s fun no matter how historical you claim it to be.

Sunking is right if the ct cm doesnt create  conditions tht allow the fight to develop then its nothing more then a pork/auger gangbang that is little fun for one side.

The fun police must follow the fun rules, screw history. 90% really?

I'll start a poll.....

How many folks fly ah/main/ct/events for fun?

How many dont care about fun as long as its historical?

Onething "historical" means nothing in terms of gameplay. Some "historical" plane matchups are fun, some arent. Which do you think will attract more players?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Batz
Fm2 is not the same as an f4f-4 and when the the fm2 is in the ct it doesnt face the niki alone. Post one ct set up where thats true.

The only time the f4u-1 was in the slot map was when it faced the a6m2. Folks would fly it three sectors to club baby seals. It was only added to defend hq to begin with.

The tbf had different guns then the tbm-3. So did the sbd-3 have different guns then the sbd-5. Thats what widewing wont tell ya and thats whet you are denying here. The type 99 mk 1s in ah lose 40% of their lethality at 180 yrds.  An a6m2 fighting an f4u-1 is 0 fun. You have to close inside 200 yrds on a plane thats 50 mph faster and then you only get 120 rounds. Comparing the "peggy" to any of that is nonsense.

Well, let's examine the facts, the real facts.

Early in the conflict and for as long as they were flyable, F4F-3s served with both the Marines and the Navy. Initially, it the primary model available. In terms of performance, the F3F-3 climbs to 15k in 5.3 minutes, the FM-2 in 6.1 minutes. Best speed goes to the F4F-3 which hits 335 mph vs 320 for the FM-2. Agility is about equal, with the F4F-4 notably behind. So, when someone suggests subbing the FM-2 for the F4F-3, they are actually asking for an aircraft that was somewhat inferior to that which was actually in service.

As to the SBD-3 having different guns than the SBD-5... Nonsense.

Deliveries of the SBD-3 began in March of 1941, and it was armed with twin fifties from day one. Sources are clear on this.

Early TBF-1s were armed with a single cowling mounted forward firing .50, later bumped up to twin fifties in the TBF-1C (wing mounted). So, the single gun mounted near centerline was upgraded to a pair in the wings that had to be harmonized.

So, that's your whole argument, one additional gun added to the TBF, making it a super-deadly dogfighter and bad bellybutton strafing monster, right?

Furthermore, how does the type 99 lose effectiveness at 180 yards? Is there a secret AH sound barrier or something? Lethality is a function of energy and explosive power, and relatively little energy is lost at just 180 yards, and explosive power is unaffected by range. Had you stated that accuracy degrades beyond 180 yards, you may have a case.

So far, I haven't seen anything from you except inept arguments supported by defective "facts", stretched to the absolute limit of credibility. Please, tell us once again why the SBD-5 and TBM-3 are so detrimental to the scenario, but the Ki-67 is perfectly acceptable, I need a laugh.

My regards,

Widewing

[F4UDOA]

Batz,

First things first.

1. The NIK2 is a dweeb plane in the MA. It is twice that in the CT.

2. For someone who fly's the NIK2 to complain about the C-Hog is really well, in bad taste. Especially since like in every other senario some perk cost is assigned to fly a higher performance plane ie La-7 or 109G10. And how is the C-Hog imbalancing when flown against the NIK2?

And as a historic note do you know how many NIK2's were built? About as many as there were C-Hogs. And most of the C-Hogs built were at Okinawa.


Again when your wrong historically you call it fun. And when it's not fun you call it historic.

Well it's not fun fighting NIK2's in FM-2's.

And as you said.

If cant believe that unlimited navy planes from every base would unbalance the weeks fun you are havent been paying attention.

Well land bases fly Marine A/C (F4U) and the Navy fly's FM-2's. So I'm not asking for unlimited Navy planes, just the right Marines ones.

So that is not fun or historic is it?

[Batz]

TBF/TBM-1 had poor forward firepower. There was a single .30 caliber gun in the cowling. In 1943, this gun was eliminated and a .50 caliber gun was installed in each wing.

The slot map is august 42.

I thought the ah sbd-5 had rear firing 50s, just checked they are 30s.

But I never said I had a problem with them. What I said was you have np flying ac that are later models and up gunned but raise hell about the peggy. A plane that really has no impact except as a suicide fleet killer.

The fm2 has better performance at lo alt then the f4f-3 in terms of speed and climb where most fights take place in the ct. By august 42 most f4f-3s were re-placed with f4f-4. So an august 1942 slot map is quite "historical" with the f4f-4. Are you saying the a6m2 is to unbalancing facing the f4f-4?

F4u said that the niki has been set up to fight the f4f/fm2 in the ct. No it hasnt. Setups have included both the fm2 and niki but as parts of a larger planeset. In finrus you can fly a hurri 1 against an la5fn. That doesnt mean the cms forced a hurri 1 vrs la5fn match up.

The peggy is a closer sub for the betty then the ju88 anyway you look at it. In terms of defensive guns and bomb load.

G4M2 Model 22, which first flew in late 1942. It had 2 1,800 hp (1342 kW)  Mitsubishi MK4P Kasei 21 engines.  The initial version of the G4M2 had an additional 20mm cannon. Other variants included the G4M2 Model 22A with four 20mm cannon and two 7.7mm machine-guns, and the G4M2 Model 22B, which differed from the 22A only in the type of cannon installed.

Maximum speed 271 mph;  initial climb 1,380 feet per minute;
service ceiling approx 30,000 feet

The peggy is at max 40mph faster.  Below 15k its can be caught by the f4f but bombers only bug you if you bug them. Its not like a peggy could close a field especially the ones in the slot terrain. The peggy isnt "unbalancing".

A ju88 while easier to kill has far greater potential, with its 6k + bomb load, to impact the set up.

F4u

We dont have a real land war in ah. Ground targets of all types are easily spotted and hit and destroyed and their impact on gameplay is great. A single chog can shut down a whole base. What happens is with the limited bases all getting porked its no fun. I dunno what else to tell you.

Thats what would happen. To control the flow and incidences like this the cms who ran the Okinawa set up decided that by placing certain planes at certain cvs would make for more fun. As I said I always have seen f6fs, fm2s, and f4us of different types all over the okinawa map. The map scale is I think 1 to 1,5. The cv based planes are in reach of anything on okinawa so who cares if a plane is at 1cv or 6? Its not like the return trip takes hours.

Its not like cvs get sunk by aircraft left and right. I sank half a 4 cv fleet 1 time while in a 37mm gun. Convince the allied admirals not to put his cv in range of the land based guns and they will stay afloat.

In the AH scenario Operation Iceberg where the missions and "gameplay" are more historical the chog, the f4u-1, f4u-4 all have their place. In an open arena the chog like it did in the main would have a far greater impact then it did historically. While this is true of the niki there is only 4 japanese fighters. There were ki-84s at okinawa as well while the niki is a poor sub its better then nothing. Theres still 2 other version of the f4u to fly in that set up.