P 51 antidote

[Minotaur]

SrSanta;

Congrats Dude!

You finally beat Torque for the "Longest Post Ever" award.

WTG!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Ass, ass, ass. I said it and im glad."
Easymo

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by coyote:
Wow never knew you would resort to lies to try and make your case ? I rarely fly Chogs(not that there is anything wrong with that). I fly em on Jabo missions. I fly P51, 47 and 38 mostly... Say If I failed to "score", how did u know it was me??? Making things up are we? LMAO

Back in beta terrain I saw a 25-30k Hog (!). He dropped on a nearby Niki and shot it down. Watching the kill buffer, I knew it was you.

Then you turned for me. Once we were co-E, you simply dove for your field.

Remember this next time you mention LW pilots fly at 35k.

[Hristo]

As I said, the Dora is more than just a plane to most Luftwaffe types. Dedicated LW types do very well even with existing planes. It is not that they need the Dora performance to win (but it will make things easier).

Still, they would like to fly the plane they admire so much.

Surely more than C Hog types who probably never heard of the cannon Hog before they tried it in AH.

P.S.
Verm, try Fw 190A-8 vs P 51D. You might appreciate the kills you get a lot more.

[Vermillion]

Hristo, I gave up the P51 as my serious ride back 3 tours ago.

Now I fly the Yak-9U (sometimes 109G10 with gondolas) when I go looking for air to air engagements, and for ground attack/vulching I fly the F4U-1C or the Typhoon.

Yep the -1C is dweeby and it almost feels like cheating, no arguements, but I figure that its no more dweeby than someone spawning 37 times in a hour at the same base in a N1K2 or Spit IX.  When people give up respawn-dweebery, I will give up the cannon hog for those missions.

And I can even prove I knew about Corsairs with cannons long before they were introduced in AH. Hell, it was before they were introduced in WB's (F4U-4B) even, since I was trying to get Pyro to put the plane in there.

Have you flown the Yak? With its guns and ammo load, you appreciate each and every kill.  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Kieren]

Anyone that has to demean anyone else to elevate themself(ves) has an ego problem. What this has to do with the addition of the 262 or 190D9 is beyond me.

"We deserve the 262 and 190D9 because you Allied guys are just plane chicken and HT and Pyro have a plot against European players and nobody can kill me in my 109G10 and if you only flew it more you would appreciate how good I am and you allied guys were never any good anyway and everyone knows the Luftwaffe was the best in the world and everyone knows that makes my argument right"... sorry if I missed any other cogent point.  

Model every single plane possible. Some will get used, some won't. While I might agree we need to see some planes added other than the American iron, I don't see this as a vast consipiracy against the Axis (LW). The veiled accusation that the LW is being slighted to stroke the American egos is naive- you assume that all Americans fly the American planes, and that is not true.

[RAM]

Its much simpler than that, Kieren. Right now German planes are or maneouverable,but slow (109F4,G2,G6, 190A5) or fast but unmaneouverable (Me109G10). Fw190A8 falls in the middle, is maneouverable ,but unable to stay for long in close fights, but it isnt faster enough to cope with most planes on the planeset.

I, and by extension all dedicated LW pilots, am tired of outmanouvering and outperforming P51 pilots that bounce us from 30K ,to win them the E situation in the disadvantage,to turn tables on them effectively. only to see them 0Ging and running away like little screamin' girls.

 If a Fw190 pilot blews it he is likely to go down quite fast in flames. If a P51 pilot blews it, he only needs to point the nose down and say "bye bye,julai (  ). It's annoying to say the least.

The Fw190D9 was an historically important plane for LW, was in numbers and was the P51's direct competitor in WWII. I always loved that plane, its looks, and its historical use.

But I can't fly it. I can't fly my favorite plane because (with no serious justification so far), it isnt in the planeset.

I dont say that HTC has a plot against LW pilots...but I am sure that most people wont accept very well a HIGHLY (I repeat: HIGHLY, DEADLY) competitive german plane in the planeset. The cries there were in 1.03 about Fw190A5 and 109G10 shows it clearly, even wehn 109G10 was one the hardest planes in the planeset, only behind Typhoon, and the A5 was one of the slowest planes in Aces High.

Go figure if we have here a Fw190A8 with the climbrate of a Fw190A5, the high altitude performance of a G10, and the speed of a P51, not to talk about MW50 boost that will give it a very good acceleration under 20K...

IT won't turn for a $h1T (if fact it should turn a bit better than A8), but it will be able to run with mustangs and MAKE THEM FIGHT. Thing that 75% of them have no idea of how to do it. And the cries of "overmodelled", "mosnter", "Uber", "D9 FM porked", etc will be nonstop.

I dont want to be in Pyro's pants if that happens, that fer sure. I have read several times in many sites that Wb's D9 was seriously undermodelled in grounds of making it "playable". I dont know if it is true or not as I rarely have flown Wb. But I don't find it too hard to believe.

I dont blame HTC for D9 not being in the planeset. I dont blame anyone. But I want it here. not because I can't fight in the current LW planes (I can, and I do decent work in Fw190s), but because is my most loved plane in history.

And I want it.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Kieren]

You see, you don't lose me with the "it was there in the same time period, therefore it should be modeled argument". Believe me when I say I agree with you. Where I do disagree is in this continuous thought that spews from the LW crowd;

"but I am sure that most people wont accept very well a HIGHLY (I repeat: HIGHLY, DEADLY) competitive german plane in the planeset."

How do you know what I will accept? As a matter of fact, I think most people will welcome more choices, whatever they are. What it comes to is this; if you choose to limit yourself to one country's aircraft, that is your choice. I don't. When aircraft are made available I fly the ones that I enjoy more than the ones I don't.

The trouble is you are not the only one that wants a plane that is representative of the time period. Remember Karnak? He'd like to see a Spit XIV. Why shouldn't he have one? Why can't Vermillion have his Ki-44, Mitsu his Ki-84, Leonid his La-7? Why can't Gatt have a G55?

You'll notice that when these guys ask for their rides, it is done so without the insuinuation of an American conspiracy. You'll also notice some of these guys are Americans asking for another country's aircraft. You're painting all Americans and HTC with a very wide brush.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:

"but I am sure that most people wont accept very well a HIGHLY (I repeat: HIGHLY, DEADLY) competitive german plane in the planeset."

How do you know what I will accept?

Not you, kieren. Most of the people.

Remember 1.03? all the whinin about Fw190A5?. All the whinin about G10? (not very clever whinin because in 1.03 I killed more G10s than ever, BTW). LW planes were giving Allied planes a hard time and the BBS was full of threads about it.

So it isnt so hard to figure that exactly the same thing is very probable that will happen if a properly modelled Fw190D9 is modelled in AH.
 
About the people and their wantings of planes, I agree with them. For a while I was VERY concerned about SpitXIV (is no secret). When I aknowledged that under 20K its speed was close to that of the P51, and that MW50 fitted in D9 made the Fw190D9 be as fast as both (I allways taught the 426mph 190D9 as the Mw50 one,but seems that it was the non MW50), I stopped the cry to perk the XIV.

And I stopped it knowing, still, that the XIV will be the best arena plane hands down. But at least we LW pilots will able to fly something that at least can compare with it.

Vermillion and Mitsu for now have the N1K2, the second best plane in AH for me, right now. Leonid has a Yak9U, one of the best planes,too, better than a G10 IMHO. Gatt has a C205, a plane that was there at the same time as the Centauro, and had similar performance.

190 nuts have an early war plane unable to dictate the terms of engagement, and unable to fight over 20K, and a latewar heavyweigh that only has firepower and deck speed as advantage over A5.

none of those can be quallified as very competitive in the current planeset...

D9 will be. ANd I love the plane.

[Vermillion]

 

Remember 1.03? all the whinin about Fw190A5?.

That wasn't the issue in the least. RAM, your seeing conspiracies were there aren't any.

People were complaining about the 190A5 because it was porked, not because it was competitive.

It had a bug in the FM as we all now know.   The complaint was that the A5 in 1.03, didn't compare in the manner it should to the rest of the planeset. And it appears that the "whiners" in this case were correct.

Complaints about the G10 in 1.03? I remember alot of people saying that the aircraft was very good, and that it had quietly become a very potent and lethal aircraft. But I don't remember any posts at all about its having a problem or error in the FM. Please point me to these threads where people are screaming "The 109G10 is Screwed UP!! Its just too Fast (or turns too well, or climbs too good, or anything like that).


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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Karnak]

RAM,
The problem I have with you and most of the rest of the Luftwaffe fans is that you continuously insult anybosy who doesn't see the German aircraft as the bestest thing ever.

You insist on believing that we don't want a "competative" German fighter (we already have two, but lets not go into that) because we're so scared of it.  That is complete and utter bullcrap, RAM!  Everytime you or somebody else posts it, it just riles all of us non-German aircraft buffs.  THAT is what is ticking us off, not the request for the Fw190D-9, we couldn't care less about that, one way or another.

You guys seem to revel in feeling persecuted, but you REALLY need to try to get a more balanced view of things.

Sisu
-Karnak

[RAM]

Verm, the initial whining about Fw190A5 was about its turning ability and acceleration.

Acceleration has been turned a bit down. Turning ability compares just the same to the rest of the planes as in 1.03.

When some people saw Fw190A5 turning as it did in 1.03 they went crazy.

About G10, in 1.03 I saw more G10s than ever. People thought it was the "magic carpet" of AH because what it was said here in this BBS. And so they died in tons, because those people didnt know how to ride it to the best of its possibilities.

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
RAM,
The problem I have with you and most of the rest of the Luftwaffe fans is that you continuously insult anybosy who doesn't see the German aircraft as the bestest thing ever.

You insist on believing that we don't want a "competative" German fighter (we already have two, but lets not go into that) because we're so scared of it.

You contradict yourself. fist you say that I cant accept anyone saying that german planes weren't the best, when I have said tons of time that Spitfire XIV is better plane than MW50 fw190D9.

Then you say that I insist that we have no competitive planes in AH...how is that if I cant accept that allied planes are better?...

You are getting me completely wrong, Karnak. First of all, LW planes are now worse than most of the planeset. Fw190As are still competitive (A8 has received a new life with 1.04), but can't match, by far, P51s, P38s and barely P47s.

It isnt surprising, tho. A5 was an early 1943 design, slow by any standards in 1944. A8 was a heavyweight designed to hunt down bombers, not to be an air superiority plane.

The Air superiority Fw190 in 1944 was the D9. Able to match anything the allied had. Not to OUTPERFORM ANYTHING THE ALLIED HAD, but to MATCH it.

Me109G10 is now a plane for very patient and dedicated pilots. I still like it, but from being the second best plane in AH, IMHO, it has fallen back even behind 109g2!!!...It can be deadly, but requires very expert handling, and the FM changes have negated most of its previous strong points.

MW50 Fw190D9 is sorely missed for LW pilots, karnak. We fly outdated outperformed planes, or hardly maneouverable ones, and that is VERY annoying.

You should understand it. You in 1.03 were saying just the same about RAF planes, remember?  

[Karnak]

RAM,
I was never accusing everbody of being in a conspiracy.  I was never accusing people of being afraid of the Spit.  I was never insulting everbody who wasn't an RAFanatic.

Yes, I was asking for a 1944 aircraft.

Why don't you try just asking for the Fw190D-9.  I'm sure you'd be surprised at the support you'd get from all members of the AH community.  (Don't try this with the Me262, jets won't fly  )

The problem, you see, is that every time the Fw190D-9 is asked for, the request is coupled with baseless accusations of consiracy and fear.  THAT is what gets our blood up.

P.S.,
 

Originally posted by RAM:
You contradict yourself. fist you say that I cant accept anyone saying that german planes weren't the best, when I have said tons of time that Spitfire XIV is better plane than MW50 fw190D9

You misunderstood what I meant, I think.  I didn't mean best as in most capable, I meant best as in most interesting and likable.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Vermillion:
People were complaining about the 190A5 because it was porked, not because it was competitive.

LW Plane is instantly porked as it is too good obviously  

Nobody has had even a look at spit 5's speed until I did test it.

How about P-51 back then when it had glitch in the FM, only a handful of more LW innovated pilots complained of it. (and allies were whining against that arqument)

But when we have LW plane having something threatening in here, it is BIG story.

And there is still few examples that I could dig out.

What comes to 109G6 and G10, they accerlate SLOW.
I'd like to see speed beyond 300mph bit more often. (wah.. I see 300mph quicker in Spit V than in G6/G10)

[Hristo]

P 51D, P 47D (-30 something), P 38L and F4U-1c are the most modern planes in the planeset, all except C-Hog being 1944 birds.

What other countries need are planes from same time, not some early war substitutes we have.

We need :

Fw 190D-9 (more than just a plane to some of us)
Spitfire XIV
Tempest
Me 262
La 7
Yak 3
Ki 84

Now meet those next time you take off in P 51D  .

[Vermillion]

Not true Hristo. Not in the least.

If your saying that the US planes are late war (1944-1945) and everyone else is flying older planes, you need to get some books out and study up on your aircraft history.

N1K2: late 1944/early 1945
A6M5b: mid 1944 (?)
Yak-9U: late 1944
Fw190A8: mid 1944
Me109G10: late 1944

So I see Americans, Germans, Russians, Japanese, and Brazilians all have late war aircraft.

The people that can really complain are the Italians and the British, they both still flying midwar aircraft.

 

{Hristo wrote}We need :

Fw 190D-9 (more than just a plane to some of us)
Spitfire XIV
Tempest
Me 262
La 7
Yak 3
Ki 84

I agree totally, except for the Me262. And even though I am a Russian aircraft fan, I could even do without the Yak3 (Vk105 is the one we would probably get) since it would have very similar performance and handling to the Yak-9U we already have. Now if we get the Yak-3 (Vk107) I take my words back  

I would like to see the Me262 for Scenario use, but I figure it would ruin the atmosphere of the MA for the average pilot.

Now see.... all you had to do, was say "I think these aircraft would round out the planeset" and I would have been on your side (and many others).

But when you had to throw the "Its a US conspiracy and they got better planes than us..." gratituitous Luftwobble whine in, you just made half the people that read this board, instantly disagree with you, and the other half totally ignore you.


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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 09-26-2000).]