Better Perk Points For bombers

[Innominate]

The best perks always come from defeating other players.  I see no reason to change that.

Bomber milkruns and re-supplies should continue to be the worst way to gain perks.

Want bomber perks?  Bomb a heavily defended field.  Want GV perks?  Grab a panzer and help fight off a GV rush.

[Tilt]

I am all foir rewarding successfull bombing missions with more perks............... I am also for making bombers  buy their heavier bomb loads with perks............. that they get back (plus their well earned buff perks) when they rtb.

That way we see less raids that have suicidal tendancies...............

[Tilt]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Well..perk points should be piled into one basket

Actually I would hold entirely the opposite view............

For me their would be

Fighter perks

Attack perks

Buff perks

Vehicle/gunner/boat perks.

Remove the fighter/attack button (if your fighter loads bombs or rockets or ammo over 30mm you are in attack mode)

Place all buffs without level bomb sights (or/and that cannot fly formation) in the attack category (inc C47)

Perk bomb loads beyond a certain weight of bomb..........

Amply reward attack & buff missions that RTB successfully..............


and while we are at it.......

Fix bomb release in "bombers" (and C47's)such that it can only be effected from F6 at a near level AOA.



This IMO

reduces suicidal tendancies  of some jabo / buff missions

rewards successfull missions with perks that can be used for bigger load outs as well as the few perk AC options that may be available...........

makes dive bombing big buffs impossible.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This would produce a couple of anomalies still......such as the fact that certain types of Ju88 were used as dive bombers.

However if we want a dive bombing (or even radar equiped night fighting) Ju88 then it should be added as a separate non formation attack AC on the list.

Much as should a Mossie XVI(XVIII ?) be added then it may be a formation based (perked) high speed buff with F6 sight.

[Easyscor]

Originally posted by Tilt
I am all foir rewarding successfull bombing missions with more perks............... I am also for making bombers  buy their heavier bomb loads with perks............. that they get back (plus their well earned buff perks) when they rtb.

That way we see less raids that have suicidal tendancies...............

Wait a minute, are you rewarding bombing skill or gunnery skill; IMO the amount of practice needed to stay proficient at level bombing is enough of a penalty and with the new maps in AH2, it's logical to expect camouflaged fuel bunkers to fix the communities loudest complaint.

I will always disagree with your rule on outside bomber views in scenarios but we can continue to campaign on everything in your second post.

[Dead Man Flying]

Let me get this straight... Warchief wants more perks for using a strategic bomber against tactical targets?

Perhaps the game is trying to tell him something.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Easyscor
Wait a minute, are you rewarding bombing skill or gunnery skill; IMO the amount of practice needed to stay proficient at level bombing is enough of a penalty and with the new maps in AH2, it's logical to expect camouflaged fuel bunkers to fix the communities loudest complaint.

I think to rank as a proficient buff pilot one should gain a level of both bombing and gunning skills............. the pilot at 10k will need to concentrate on his gunnery and the pilot at 25k will probably have to develop more aiming skills........... if you see my point.....


I think re fuel porking that that given fields will be standardised (such that even if you cant see it you know where it is) the terrain mod would be to spread fuel out and increase its quantity per field..................and hide it below those tree canopies HT has forcast.

re externals in scenarios............thats batz's idea......... I just liked it.

[Easyscor]

Originally posted by Tilt
.....and the pilot at 25k will probably have to develop more aiming skills.....

I think you have no idea how tough it is to be consistent above 16K

Originally posted by Tilt
Re: fuel.... that given fields will be standardised (such that even if you cant see it you know where it is)

That's not my impression; I believe the field setup can be customized for each field, limited only by the amount of work required of the map maker.  I hope and expect variations of the beautiful Okinawa fields to be put into play with any new maps and look forward to 10-12 different airfield setups.

Originally posted by Tilt
re externals in scenarios............thats batz's idea......... I just liked it.

Argh, Wotan!;) It's almost enough to make me start flying Allied again, almost but not quite.  If I could I'd make you both fly nothing but bombers for a tour.

[Soda]

I fly the Arado a lot, haven't been caught in months even when I hit targets that are pretty heavily defended.  I don't need to climb to 20K+, basically not much can catch you even at 10K.  400+mph cruise, 2,000ft/min climb, 3,300lb's of bombs (1500kgs)... once free of the bombs it cruises at more like 450mph.

Too many people think bombers all need to carry 10K+ of bombs, use lots of guns to defend themselves, and then must be able to carpet bomb a field into submission.  The Arado is a precision instrument that can be deadly effective if you know what you are doing... it's a great aircraft.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Easyscor
I think you have no idea how tough it is to be consistent above 16K

Oh I have ......... if you ever find me in a 4 engined heavy over target it will be at 20K...........and yes........... I miss alot........and still get shot  down alot.


There is this old pun recounted by ex RAF bomber types

Apparantly there was this large group of B17's from the glorious 8th? inbound to target over Belgium working its way to the Rhine at about 25K.



Lead Bomb aimer to lead pilot: "we are going to have to reduce altitude to 23 k, visibility is poor"

Lead pilot to  lead bomb aimer: "Ok but that will bring us in range of the long range ack"

They drop down and sure enough the long range ack starts to pick them up.

Lead Bomb aimer to lead pilot: "we are going to have to reduce altitude to 21 k, visibility is still poor"

Lead pilot to  lead bomb aimer: "Ok but that will bring us in range of the medium range ack"

They drop down and sure enough the medium range ack starts to pick them up as well as the long range ack. Its getting scary stuff is bursting every where.....

Lead Bomb aimer to lead pilot: "we are going to have to reduce altitude to 19 k, visibility is still poor"

Lead pilot to  lead bomb aimer: "Ok but that will bring us in range of the short range ack"


They drop down and sure enough the short range ack starts to pick them up as well as the medium and long range ack. The sky around them is full of shrapnel and the bombers are beginning to suffer damage.........

Lead Bomb aimer to lead pilot: "we are going to have to reduce altitude,  visibility is still poor"

Lead pilot to  lead bomb aimer: " Sorry bomb aimer I am not going any lower"

Lead Bomb aimer to lead pilot: "why not"

Lead pilot to  lead bomb aimer:"Because thats where the bloody RAF are"


............................. ..........

Last recounted by ex bomb aimer and navigator "Stamper" Metcalf 100 Squadron (Lancasters) during his talk to the AH UK Con 2002.

[Easyscor]

Muhahah
Nice story!

[Warchief]

No I dont think bombers should get more perk popiints for bombing tactical targets with stargetic bombers. To sum you you sould get more perk points for successful bombing regardless what mission you fly for hitting your targets. And re-supply missions might be milkruns to everyone. They allow shorter rebuilding times on everything and if gvs are launcinh a massive attakc they can be resupplied without have to RTB

[Easyscor]

Um, right, sorry Warchief, this was your buff perk point thread.

One thing we can't ignore is the use of perk point to encourage certain behavior; as in making those resupply runs, captures, or hitting strat targets instead of tactical targets with level bombers.  It's part of the reason you get so few perk points for bombing the hangers, fuel and other stuff at an airfield.

Some players are satisfied with trading perks for the Ar234 but if I'm going to spend more than half an hour in a bomber, I want at least a 6K bomb load to go with that exotic ride I'm buying.  

I just wish the Axis had as rich a selection of level bomber as the Allies (in AH of course.)

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Soda
I fly the Arado a lot, haven't been caught in months even when I hit targets that are pretty heavily defended.  I don't need to climb to 20K+, basically not much can catch you even at 10K.  400+mph cruise, 2,000ft/min climb, 3,300lb's of bombs (1500kgs)... once free of the bombs it cruises at more like 450mph.

Too many people think bombers all need to carry 10K+ of bombs, use lots of guns to defend themselves, and then must be able to carpet bomb a field into submission.  The Arado is a precision instrument that can be deadly effective if you know what you are doing... it's a great aircraft.

This is one of the problems with AH in my humble opinion.
 Really, what can you do with a flock of arado's that makes a strategic difference for your country?  Can that be done with a p51 suicide jabo?  Yes it can, in fact, in about 1/3rd the time or even less, since the arados need to rtb to avoid losing 100's of perks.

[Warchief]

The only real value to ar234 has is for tactical bombing. The fuel load is not exactly great for hitting stargetic targets in most areas. The only real value I have found for it for hitting cities. It is very hard to calibrate bomb sites in it. And yes there needs to be more axis bombers as well as some allied bombers left out. Let me put it this way. Regardless of what you are bombing you do so to help your side win. Whether you are bombing an airfield or city to make way for other people or hitting stragetic targets. Perk points should be the same no matter what target you hit. I have flown ultra long range missions hit my target and make it back to base only to get 1.94 perk points. I got that when I took out 2 ports in one flight and knocked out at least 9 targets. I landed all 3 bombers back at base. The perk points need to reflec that. I have seen people knock out tanks with Lancasters and lose 1 and get more perk points thatn I have bomboing stargetic targets with 4 engine long range bombers.  And in WW2 they did use stargetic bombers for tactical bombing.

[MRPLUTO]

One of my favorite Ar-234 missions is to take a single plane with 3 x 500kg bombs and fly on the deck to some strat target.  (This works best on maps like NDisles where you can fly over water and many strat targets are not far inland.)

As you get close to the target begin pulling up and drop your bombs when your nose is about 45 degrees above the horizon with a delay of 0.4 to 0.6 secs.  Then do a wingover, dive back for the deck and run like a bunny.

This method was practiced in both the Soviet and US airforces (and probably every other nuclear power) after WW2 to deliver small nukes with jet fighters.

With large strat targets (only attack ones that are at 100% or close to it) it's surprisingly easy to put all three bombs on target.

 MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33

Also, I like whels' and Karnak's ideas.

Karnak is right on about the Ki-67, too.  I fly missions like he describes, often returning with all 3 buffs and a kill or two.  Plus around 20 perks.