September 11th came and went, but WTF is this about guns!

[Eagler]

I don't own a gun

after 9/11 I had an urge to buy a gun but did not ..instead i rediscovered our rosary

if we are hit as hard or harder economically, I will buy a gun for the reason Ra stated above ....

You do realize if the economy were to slip into the 5h1t3r & a great depression followed ( OBL's goal)... the riots wouldn't be far off - and they already have weapons

[beet1e]

Good morning, Gentlemen and Dago.

I already know why many of you choose to own guns because we've had gun debates on this board before. But I think most of you are focussing on the gun issue, and not what I went on to say about the threat from within. But first things first...

Seems quite a few people thought that the 911 attacks could have been an attack by the Russians or by China! Hardly likely, given the ending of the cold war. Hardly likely that either country would initiate an attack without there being some political tensions and build up to the event that would have been in the news on CNN. And hardly likely that any such airborne attack could be mounted, unnoticed by America's coastal defence system and CIA satellites. So I wonder why that's the first thought that enters the minds of some.

But my real point was that so many people worry about scary situations like the Russians invading (unlikely in the extreme) but overlook the very much more real factors that might lead to their demise. Even if there was a military coup in your own country, can you imagine it being fought off by a bunch of guys wearing jeans, T-shirts and reverse baseball caps, armed with semi auto handguns? lol.  

At the same time, if you would look around, you might see folks who are massively overweight, take no exercise, and perhaps smoke heavily. They probably also own guns. But which fate is more likely to befall them? An attack from Russia which can be fought off with a rifle, or a debilitating condition arising from their unhealthy lifestyle?

Cigarettes kill more than 400,000 people a year in the US. That's the same as about 140 911s. Chances are that a good many of those folks were gun owners, worried about being attacked by Russia or China, or men from Mars. But they completely overlook the REAL enemy, the enemy within their own environs.

People should stop being paranoid about Russia/China/Y2K etc., and focus on the REAL threats to their lives.

Cigarette mortality source: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm

Erlkonig - can you post the URLs to those paranoia links? I'd be interested to see...

[Fatty]

So if we can quit cigarettes we can keep our guns?

[Ripsnort]

I carry a gun in my car, have one by my bedstand, and 4 in the closet (safed). What was the point again Beet1e?

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Erlkonig
beetle, if you think that's weird, you should visit a gun enthusiast message board sometime.  A hot topic of discussion is SHTF (**** hits the fan) scenarios and TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) and exactly what weaponry is suitable for such situations.  And they're serious.

Ummm so basically if one has an arsenal in America it's protect you from the locals? ie other Americans?

It's starting to make sense by Gad!!

[Malleus]

I have guns.

They are very polished.

And I am always a quiet and considerate neighbor.

[ra]

Seems quite a few people thought that the 911 attacks could have been an attack by the Russians or by China!

Everyone I was with during 9-11 and its immediate aftermath knew it was an Islamic attack from the get-go.  I never heard anyone mention Russia or China, nor was there anyone doubting who did it.

At the same time, if you would look around, you might see folks who are massively overweight, take no exercise, and perhaps smoke heavily.

Your point is elusive.  People are people.

Cigarettes kill more than 400,000 people a year in the US.

Cigarettes shorten lifespans.  The average lifespan in the US is similar to most other industrialized nations, the CDC probably has a chart for you.

You are getting creepy Beetle.  Terrorism and lifestyles are completly unrelated issues.  You should start your own surrealist website.

ra

[DrDea]

Ive got a Mossburg aimed at the monitor as I type cause ya never know.One of dem dare commies might crawll right up outta dare and I wanna blast em.

[beet1e]

Rip!  LOL - at least I had a point. ;)

ra, either you don't understand, or you're losing your manipulative touch, or you're just plain thick - which I don't believe. What I'm saying is quite simple - as perhaps it needs to be. Some people, if other threads are to be believed, clearly thought that the US might have been in the process of being invaded by the Russians/Chinese on 911/2001. Many people who thought that and rushed out to oil their guns and buy thousands of rounds of ammo were probably smokers and/or overweight - as many folks are in America. (I'm going to say it, because you guys taunt us about our nation's dental health - fair's fair, eh?) Their fears for their personal safety (read long term prospects in this life) are clearly misplaced, if what scares them the most is Russians/Chinese/Men from Mars/US Govt military coup etc. A much greater threat to their lives can be found within their own environment - smoking, unhealthy diet. But whereas they hotfoot it down to the gun shop, driven by their paranoia about foreign invasion, they are totally complacent about the dangers of heart disease, lung cancer, diabetes, cirrhosis of the liver etc...

Terrorism and lifestyles are completly unrelated issues.

Terrorists kill. Unhealthy lifestyles kill more slowly. But more people die from the latter than the former. Current health warning on a packet of cigs here is "Smoking Kills". What is it in the US?

Of course, I might be biased. But hopefully unlike most here, I have attended the funeral of a fellow flightsimmer who died as a result of smoking. He was younger than I was.

America living in fear? Maybe Michael Moore had a point after all...

[ra]

Terrorists kill. Unhealthy lifestyles kill more slowly. But more people die from the latter than the former.

And they are unrelated.  

Your point seems to be that as long as people are dying from smoking and over-eating, terrorism should be seen as a relatively minor issue.  That is an off the wall idea to me.  You just seem to be using the 2nd anniversay of 9-11 as an excuse to poke fun of fat, smoking Americans.

These people who fear China/Russia/Martians do not exist in any significant numbers, so rest easy.  Michael Moore's only point is on the tip of his head.

What kills people in the UK?  I'm too lazy to do a Google search.

ra

[Dune]

Beetle, I'm sorry about your friend who died.  However, nothing else you've mentioned goes together:

1. I don't remember anyone who thought the Rooskies were attacking us on 9/11.  

2. It was women who bought the most guns after 9/11.  Not the mythical "smoker/survivalist".

In fact, this delusion you have that people who own guns are smokers and are killing themselves is somewhat curious.  If not laughable.  In fact the 23% of Americans smoke while in the UK one number I saw was 27%.  I would be really interested in seeing the study that links gun ownership to tobacco use.

[Drunky]

You are a very, very strange man beet1e.

I don't understand you or your point and I suppose I never will.

You seem very, very fixated on guns.  Sounds like a fetish to me.

Please stop writing about guns.  Who cares how many American have guns, want guns or even dreams of guns.

Perhaps you should start writing about how many British men write about guns in America.

Thank you and goodnight.

Have a nice day.

[beet1e]

Oh well, at least the reactions I'm getting explain the complacency that some people have regarding the real threats to their lives.

And that's what this thread is about. It's not about guns. It's about real threats to people's lives versus perceived threats to people's lives. Drunky, please take note.

Dune - if you would look at banana's thread, you will see that some folks thought the US was under attack - one thought by the Russians, another the Chinese! Can you explain to me why so many women bought guns after 911/2001? Were they afraid that there might be a knock on the door from OBL, or was there another reason?

I would be really interested in seeing the study that links gun ownership to tobacco use.

You are deliberately avoiding my point. Folks buy guns to safeguard their lives from a perceived threat from outside.  I'm not saying that people in the US are wrong to do that, if that's what they choose, even though in the vast majority of cases that perceived threat (burglar, Russian, OBL etc.) will never materialise. But many, many more lives (400,000+ per annum, if the CDC is to be believed) are at risk from real threats, and will be ended prematurely - many abruptly - by heart attacks or by other diseases stemming from smoking. But, like you guys, so many think of the real dangers from cigs as someone else's problem - "it can't happen to me..." Anyway, thanks for your sympathy for my friend who died. He was a hell of a guy. He went out of his way to help me out flying 109s in Brand-W, and he came over as a guy who exuded life, and had everything to live for. He died a week later. At his funeral, as the family arrived all dressed in black, I sat there and thought "what a freaking waste of a life"...

ra - sorry, not wanting to make fun of people who are overweight. Just trying to face the issue. Let's not turn this into a US v UK pissing contest. I can't draw the same comparisons here - no guns - so when we experience a terrorist attack (IRA bomb goes off in central London, for example) people can't rush out to buy guns... We're more used to terrorism than you are - 30+ years of IRA bombing on mainland Britain.

I'm almost finished...

I used to be a "light" smoker. Until 22 years ago. I was working in Schaumburg,IL and there was a larger than life guy in my office - popular with everyone - and a heavy smoker. One morning, he collapsed. The ambulance came, and they got him down to it. The ambulance didn't pull away for about 10 minutes - I realised later they were trying to resuscitate him inside the ambulance. Later that day, we got the phone call - and there were tears all around the office. I remember walking past his office - his ashtray and mound of cig butts was still there. And I thought about the guy who smoked them and thought "that could be me in 30 years..." and I kicked the habit a few weeks later.

A question: Which of the following choices would have had the greatest effect to prolong my life: Is it a) buying a gun to protect myself and my property from an outside threat, or is it b) quitting smoking while there was still time ?

[lazs2]

the gun... well... better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it.   I allso like the deterent effect.   in the U.S. we have maybe more bad people than in limeyland but.... we have way less burglaries.... many less "hot" (where the homeowner is home) than england... burglars don't want to be shot.... the police laugh at em or kick the corpse.

plus... guns are fun to collect, work on and shoot.   Plus... we certainly don't want our government knowing that we are unarmed.  Not this adminestration or the last or the one that will follow... keep em a little honest.

lazs

[Scootter]

Beetle,

In a very simple statement I think I can answer your question,


People felt scared and not in control that day.


 I know for a short while before they got the lid on things I wondered where the next attack was coming from. We really felt scared that other attacks were immanent and would happen everywhere. Nightclub bombings attacks at schools and playgrounds, shopping malls etc. Americans wanted some semblance of safety and control in our lives to replace the fear and anger we felt. I have observed the flock rushing to the store for bottled water when a Hurricane warning is issued, and wondered why they don't already have it stocked for the season., Most folks just see others on TV and need to do something, need to feel in control, so out they go to be with others and take action to relieve fear and stress. As silly as it may seem to you, history reminds us of a gun shortage in your country in the 30's and American citizens sending you their own firearms to arm your citizens from the immanent invasion from Germany. Could this be part of the reason for your country’s seeming fascination in our firearms or is it from our western movies? I can see in my minds eye the fear and helplessness in your country man being relieved holding the means of there future in the form of a 12 ga. shotgun provided by there brothers from across the pond.  

I really think ist not much different then owning a generator, I own many firearms, I collect them as a hobby for the history they hold, I also own non-historic firearms that I consider tools and fit a purpose.  I neither sleep with them in my bed nor fondle them they, like my generator they are tools and are used as such.


Americans also bought a lot of booze and cigarettes that week due to the attacks to help feel better, also ice cream and junk food, just human nature.

Something else I noticed, folk’s talked to each other more, we came together in coffee shops and news stands to just be together and talk. We got closer that day, you see we were all Americans and we all had been attacked, I took comfort in this most of all.

Regards,