Author Topic: Help Me Love Bill Clinton...  (Read 1191 times)

Offline muckmaw

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2003, 05:14:21 PM »
George Bush on Marijuana-

"I tried it....I inhaled, I like it...I tried it some more..."

Don't care for the message here, but at least the guys honest.

Offline Fishu

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2003, 05:21:24 PM »
Well.. lying about foreign puss is bit different than lying about WMD and starting a war.... as well as publicly call french silly (yes, he called french silly before the war) etc.

I'd say thats far worse....

Offline GtoRA2

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Yeah it bush should have
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2003, 05:31:17 PM »
Made fun of the Finns, lol.

I mean who would care?

Offline MrLars

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2003, 05:44:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
About the WMD.

I look at it like this. You give me 12 years, and pretty much unlimmited funds, and I could hide several tractor trailers in California and it would be VERY hard for the government to find them. I think it is going to take time, if they are not found in like two years, I would like a public apologie or maybe something stronger. Iraq is a big place and hiding things is easy.


Why, if we had so much intelligence about the existance of WMD in Iraq and now find it missing, is the government not franticly looking for where they may have been moved to and not just within the borders of Iraq. If their claim of huge stockpiles of WMD came from good intel then I would think that that threat still exists.

This administration went to war in part because of the threat of WMD, I would suspect then that since they haven't found them the threat still exists but that hasn't been conveyed to the public too well.

Offline muckmaw

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2003, 07:26:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrLars
This administration went to war in part because of the threat of WMD, I would suspect then that since they haven't found them the threat still exists but that hasn't been conveyed to the public too well.


In PART due to WMD. Sure I'd love to find them, and shove it up the oppositions collective Arses, but they're not to be found yet, if ever. Was there a break down in intelligence. Probably. Did GWB believe the WMDs were there. I believe he did. Did he overhype this part of the reasoning to go to war to make his case. I think he did.

But let me ask you this. If GWB is not to be trusted, and is a liar, etc. Why does he not simply have the WMDs planted on Iraq ands scream smoking gun? Maybe he has a little more integrity than some former presidents?

AS for the threat to the civilized world...we rounded up 80 Al Quaida members last night. Think the world is just a tad safer today? I do.

I'd rather have them fight Soldiers in Iraq than Soccer Moms in Iowa.

Offline Seeker

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2003, 09:19:13 PM »
Europe (kinda) trusted Clinton.

Europe is repulsed by Bush.

Make of it what you may.

Offline 10Bears

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2003, 10:38:15 PM »
Just back from show in Kauai...

Anybody want me to go off?
:mad:

Offline Silat

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Clinton haters forget that he did good things too
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2003, 10:47:04 PM »
Clinton wants biggest boost in defense spending since Reagan
January 24, 2000
Web posted at: 10:18 p.m. EST (0318 GMT)

From Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A proposed hike in defense spending by President Bill
Clinton is not presidential politics but rather the first step in fulfilling
last year's pledge to add $112 billion to the defense budget over six years,
Pentagon officials tell CNN.

When Clinton unveils the federal budget next month, Pentagon sources tell
CNN, he will propose spending $291 billion on defense, a hike of more than
$18 billion and nearly double last year's increase.

The nearly 7 percent increase in defense spending next year that the Clinton
administration will propose is the biggest increase in the Pentagon's budget
since the Reagan-era military buildup of the 1980s.




In this election year, the proposal could draw charges of playing politics.
Republican presidential candidates have criticized the Clinton
administration for underfunding the military and causing what they called a
resulting decline in readiness.

One of Republican presidential hopeful John McCain's campaign themes is
restoring military spending. And George W. Bush, who advocates "clear-eyed
realism" in foreign policy, says he will set national defense as the "first
focus" of a Bush administration should he be elected.

Both hopefuls have come down hard on Clinton's dealings with the military
budgets during his administration.

"There is almost no relationship between our budget priorities and a
strategic vision," Bush says. "The last seven years have been wasted in
inertia and idle talk."

McCain backs increased defense spending, claiming that "not since Pearl
Harbor has our investment in national defense been so low as a percentage of
our gross national product."

   ALSO
The Pentagon's spending authority for the last five years, and the proposed
hike for fiscal year 2001 (according to Pentagon sources):

YEAR  DoD SPENDING AUTHORITY  $ INCREASE  % INCREASE
FY1996  $254,417,000
FY1997  $257,974,000  $3,557,000  1.4%
FY1998  $258,527,000  $563,000  0.22%
FY1999  $262,564,000  $4,027,000  1.56%
FY2000  $272,400,000  $9,836,000  3.75%
FY2001  $291,000,000  $18,600,000  6.83%




"Since 1992, when President Clinton took office, our armed forces have
deployed an average of one deployment every nine weeks, yet defense budgets
have declined by nearly 40 percent during that same time, and procurement of
modern weapons systems has declined by 70 percent," McCain says.

Sources say that for the first time since Clinton took office, the Pentagon
will meet its stated goal of including $60 billion for modernization and
procurement of new weapons.

The conservative-leaning Heritage Foundation criticized both Congress and
the White House at budget time last year, saying neither had developed a
credible plan to meet the Pentagon's long-standing procurement goal of $60
billion annually.

"The declining readiness of U.S. military forces has become so acute that
even President Clinton has been forced to acknowledge it," a Heritage
Foundation background paper stated.

Last year, the administration proposal was $267 billion. Congress added
almost $5 billion to that to bring the total to $272.4 billion for fiscal
year 2000, for a total increase of $9.8 billion, or 3.75 percent. This did
not include supplemental appropriations to cover the cost of operations in
Bosnia and Kosovo.

This year's proposed $291 billion is an increase of 6.83 percent.

The last time the Pentagon received so large an increase in its budget was
in 1983, when the defense budget went up 7.4 percent to $239 billion. In
1999 inflation-adjusted dollars that would be equal to $383 billion.

--
              Lew/+Silat

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in a time of moral
crisis, maintain their neutrality.
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Silat

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more
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2003, 10:48:02 PM »
Clinton's Military Legacy
President Bush owes a major debt of gratitude to his predecessor.

by Steven J. Nider

The United States has had two big demonstrations of American military power
on George W. Bush's watch that have been spectacularly successful. The irony
here is that Bush fought these wars with the military Bill Clinton
bequeathed to him.

"A commander-in-chief leads the military built by those who came before
him," then-vice presidential candidate Dick Cheney said during the 2000
campaign. "There is little that he or his defense secretary can do to
improve the force they have to deploy. It is all the work of previous
administrations. Decisions made today shape the force of tomorrow."

On this point he was certainly correct. Despite frequent Republican
criticism during the 2000 presidential campaign of Clinton-era military
deterioration, the force that was so successful in Afghanistan and
Iraq—while continuing to perform a myriad of tasks around the world on a
daily basis—was clearly quite capable. Republican assertions that the
military was underfunded and overstretched and that readiness was poor were
contradicted by those performances in Afghanistan and Iraq. Moreover, by
Vice President Cheney's own standard, this force did not result from
anything done by the current administration. The first Bush defense budget
went into effect on Oct. 1, 2002, and none of the funds in that budget has
yet had an impact on the quality of the men and women in the armed services,
their readiness for combat, or the weapons they used to destroy Taliban or
Iraqi forces.

As a presidential candidate, then-Gov. George W. Bush routinely declared
that he wanted a new military shaped for a new world. In his frequently
cited speech at the Citadel military academy in September 1999, he said:

As president, I will begin an immediate, comprehensive review of our
military—the structure of its forces, the state of its strategy, the
priorities of its procurement—conducted by a leadership team under the
secretary of Defense. I will give the secretary a broad mandate—to challenge
the status quo and envision a new architecture of American defense for
decades to come. We will modernize some existing weapons and equipment,
necessary for current tasks. But our relative peace allows us to do this
selectively. The real goal is to move beyond marginal improvements—to
replace existing programs with new technologies and strategies. To use this
window of opportunity to skip a generation of technology. This will require
spending more—and spending more wisely.

This was a bold vision of the military that accurately expressed the need
for major, ongoing change. Unfortunately, it has not been matched with
sufficient vision and programmatic commitment by the Bush administration.
The 2001 Quadrennial Defense Review, the comprehensive review promised by
candidate Bush, fell substantially short of its stated objective. It did not
articulate a sweeping new strategy, it did not call for any change in
existing force structure, and it did not suggest any major redirection of
investment in future systems. Moreover, until the events of Sept. 11, 2001,
the Bush administration had not suggested any major increase in defense
spending. In most respects, the review looked very much like what one might
have expected from the Clinton administration. Essentially, the only major
change was the increased emphasis on missile defense.

The Bush administration had barely started to make its mark on defense
policy before hostilities in Afghanistan began. In the spring of 2001, it
requested and received a $5 billion supplemental appropriation for the 2001
defense budget, but that constituted less than 2 percent of defense spending
for the year—mostly for pay raises—and went largely unnoticed before the war
began. The most recent defense budget submitted to Congress by the Bush
administration would increase defense spending significantly, but it fails
once again to make tough choices and provide a necessary vision of
leadership. While U.S. forces in Iraq were a model of what a transformed
U.S. military should be, the Pentagon continues to invest in Cold War
military hardware—fighter aircraft, destroyers, and other weapons designed
to fight advanced Soviet military capabilities.

In fact, the Clinton administration actually spent more money on defense
than the previous administration of President George H.W. Bush. The smaller
outlays during the first Bush administration were developed and approved by
then-Defense Secretary Cheney and then-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Colin Powell. The Clinton administration did not coast on Reagan-era
procurement funding. During the 1990s, the Pentagon invested more than $1
trillion in developing and procuring new weapons and information technology
that gave U.S. forces such an unprecedented advantage in the last two U.S.
military campaigns. But more significant than the budget increases was the
shift that occurred in the mid-1990s. That shift involved much greater
emphasis on precision weapons, sensors, robotics, advanced communications,
training, readiness, and orienting the intelligence community toward direct
support of military operations. It was that shift that produced the superb
military that not only swept through Iraq at a rate that defied historical
precedent, but used its awesome force with unprecedented precision and
effect, unprecedented low collateral damage, and unprecedented low casualty
rates. It was the American Revolution in Military Affairs begun in the
Clinton administration that was unveiled in Bush's Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The combination of Joint Defense Attack Munitions (JDAMs) and unmanned
aerial drones—both products of that shift—made it possible to find and
destroy targets, including mobile targets, more precisely and quickly during
Operation Enduring Freedom, the response to the Sept. 11 attacks, and in
Operation Iraqi Freedom than in any previous war. As many as 70 percent of
all munitions dropped on Iraq were the precision-guided munitions developed
and built during the Clinton administration. Funding for the JDAM program
began in 1993, Clinton's first year in office. The advanced, GPS-guided
Tomahawk cruise missile, which proved far more accurate and reliable than
the earlier cruise missiles used in Desert Storm under the first President
Bush, was funded in 1999. Unmanned aerial vehicles like the Predator and
Global Hawk, which enabled U.S. forces to use combat aircraft in close air
support in unprecedented ways, also originated in the Clinton years.

The Clinton administration also tried to maintain the quality of military
personnel by increasing their pay, and it improved retirement and health
benefits for military retirees. During his presidential campaign Bush
charged that the Clinton administration had overburdened the U.S. military
with too many deployments overseas, and he promised to pare those military
obligations. "Resources are overstretched," he said. "Frustration is up, as
families are separated and strained. Morale is down. Recruitment is more
difficult. And many of our best people in the military are headed for
civilian life."

Yet in the name of fighting terrorism, Bush is expanding the U.S. military
presence overseas faster than Clinton ever dreamed of doing. U.S. forces are
not only deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Bush administration has
sent advisers and support to the Philippines, Indonesia, Kuwait, Djibouti,
Qatar, Yemen, Georgia, and Uzbekistan. The extra $70 billion a year that the
administration has pumped into the Pentagon has bought more smart bombs and
bigger paychecks, but it has not brought about a significantly larger force.
Despite our expanded global war on terrorism, only about 27,000 troops have
been added to our 1.4 million active-duty force.

Even with these troop additions, the military is more overstretched now than
it was when Bush took office. During the first three months of 2003, the
United States had more than twice as many troops on overseas missions at any
given time as it did in 2000. This has made it harder to recruit and keep
the soldiers, sailors, and airmen we already have. Bush did not create
military overstretch, but he did campaign on fixing it. Instead, it has
gotten worse.

Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld deserve enormous credit for the
military victory over Iraq. Clinton deserves to share in that credit.
Despite Republican cries of a "hollow military," the Clinton administration
left behind a highly capable force that served the nation well when an
unpredicted threat emerged. How do we know? Cheney said so.


Steven J. Nider is director of foreign and security studies at the
Progressive Policy Institute.
+Silat
"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them." — Maya Angelou
"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Eagler

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Re: Clinton haters forget that he did good things too
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2003, 11:24:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
Clinton wants biggest boost in defense spending since Reagan
January 24, 2000
Web posted at: 10:18 p.m. EST (0318 GMT)

From Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A proposed hike in defense spending by President Bill
Clinton is not presidential politics but rather the first step in fulfilling
last year's pledge to add $112 billion to the defense budget over six years,
Pentagon officials tell CNN.

When Clinton unveils the federal budget next month, Pentagon sources tell
CNN, he will propose spending $291 billion on defense, a hike of more than
$18 billion and nearly double last year's increase.

The nearly 7 percent increase in defense spending next year that the Clinton
administration will propose is the biggest increase in the Pentagon's budget
since the Reagan-era military buildup of the 1980s.




In this election year, the proposal could draw charges of playing politics.
Republican presidential candidates have criticized the Clinton
administration for underfunding the military and causing what they called a
resulting decline in readiness.

One of Republican presidential hopeful John McCain's campaign themes is
restoring military spending. And George W. Bush, who advocates "clear-eyed
realism" in foreign policy, says he will set national defense as the "first
focus" of a Bush administration should he be elected.

Both hopefuls have come down hard on Clinton's dealings with the military
budgets during his administration.

"There is almost no relationship between our budget priorities and a
strategic vision," Bush says. "The last seven years have been wasted in
inertia and idle talk."

McCain backs increased defense spending, claiming that "not since Pearl
Harbor has our investment in national defense been so low as a percentage of
our gross national product."

   ALSO
The Pentagon's spending authority for the last five years, and the proposed
hike for fiscal year 2001 (according to Pentagon sources):

YEAR  DoD SPENDING AUTHORITY  $ INCREASE  % INCREASE
FY1996  $254,417,000
FY1997  $257,974,000  $3,557,000  1.4%
FY1998  $258,527,000  $563,000  0.22%
FY1999  $262,564,000  $4,027,000  1.56%
FY2000  $272,400,000  $9,836,000  3.75%
FY2001  $291,000,000  $18,600,000  6.83%




"Since 1992, when President Clinton took office, our armed forces have
deployed an average of one deployment every nine weeks, yet defense budgets
have declined by nearly 40 percent during that same time, and procurement of
modern weapons systems has declined by 70 percent," McCain says.

Sources say that for the first time since Clinton took office, the Pentagon
will meet its stated goal of including $60 billion for modernization and
procurement of new weapons.

The conservative-leaning Heritage Foundation criticized both Congress and
the White House at budget time last year, saying neither had developed a
credible plan to meet the Pentagon's long-standing procurement goal of $60
billion annually.

"The declining readiness of U.S. military forces has become so acute that
even President Clinton has been forced to acknowledge it," a Heritage
Foundation background paper stated.

Last year, the administration proposal was $267 billion. Congress added
almost $5 billion to that to bring the total to $272.4 billion for fiscal
year 2000, for a total increase of $9.8 billion, or 3.75 percent. This did
not include supplemental appropriations to cover the cost of operations in
Bosnia and Kosovo.

This year's proposed $291 billion is an increase of 6.83 percent.

The last time the Pentagon received so large an increase in its budget was
in 1983, when the defense budget went up 7.4 percent to $239 billion. In
1999 inflation-adjusted dollars that would be equal to $383 billion.

--
              Lew/+Silat

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in a time of moral
crisis, maintain their neutrality.



huh?

what did he do good here?

wait until he leaves office before he sends any money to the DOD, sticking the new guy with the bill?
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline Eagler

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Re: more
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2003, 11:29:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
Clinton's Military Legacy
President Bush owes a major debt of gratitude to his predecessor.

by Steven J. Nider

The United States has had two big demonstrations of American military power
on George W. Bush's watch that have been spectacularly successful. The irony
here is that Bush fought these wars with the military Bill Clinton
bequeathed to him.
...


did you read this too? he slams slick more than it pumps him up..

yeah, thank God for slick - we'd never been able to do what we've done under Bush, had to do under Bush, without him :rolleyes:
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline lord dolf vader

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Help Me Love Bill Clinton...
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2003, 11:49:24 AM »
last time had 2 demo votes im up to 10 now.

neoconservative/fascists must go.