Author Topic: Brady, not to whine, dude.....  (Read 3486 times)

Offline Karnak

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Brady, not to whine, dude.....
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2003, 02:43:41 AM »
Jebo44,

That may be.  My only info about the P-38 and Okinawa was from another poster in this forum.  IIRC it came up last time Okinawa was run.
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Offline Jebo44

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« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2003, 02:50:49 AM »
I'll let you know what I find out. Emailed a fella that volunteers at an Army Air Corps museum. So maybe he can give us the details.

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2003, 04:41:24 AM »
So complaining about them is nothing but a whine.

 Wasnt a complaint.

And the CT maybe just about gameplay for you Slash but it isn't for me.  

I was being sarcastic. I fly here more for a historical matchup more than anything else.

Thanks for the link Reschke, will check it out.




You navy/marine types are a dime a dozen in Ah and will always complain about something. Why you think your whines will change bradys setup is beyond me. After years of whining why not go after the other ct cms for a "solution"?

   You start in with your "STFU whiner" crap no matter what is posted. Its no wonder these threads turn into a ***** fest. Why dont you try and relax a bit. Brady is a big boy:D

Offline Sakai

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« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2003, 07:42:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
eskimo,

How tremendously leathal the FM2 and F4U/F6F combo is to Japanese fighers doesn't seem to be fully realized by many of the Allied players.  I can attest from the Axis side, it sucks.

You can't turn (The normal way A6M5s and N1K2s survive against faster fighters) because the FM2's will kill you and you can't BnZ (the normal way for A6M5s, Ki-61s and N1K2s to kill FM2s) because the F4Us/F6Fs will kill you if you don't turn.

Nasty, nasty, nasty.


That's the point there.  I upped a jug and an FM2 both and had nary a problem.  Either ride gives you certain capabilities that you may exploit against the Rising Sun and in tandem with the Cat or Corsair, the FM2 is a sure killer.  

I understand that these guys want their rides, but no one gets everything they want in a CT setup and so far I'd say this one appears to have plenty of balance.  If any side has an advantage, I'd say it is the us what with their superior ordinance loadouts and the hardness of acks.  

Sakai
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2003, 07:47:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jebo44
There also needs to be a few P-38's...yeah I think I read somewhere that they saw service in the Pacific...at least a few of them.


It would be great to see the P-38 as a ride option in the Pacific from time to time wouldn't it? We have so many F4s, 109s, 190s and Spits, can't we have a couple 38s to use?  

One can dream.

Sakai
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2003, 08:24:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
Sakai,

Now I take offense that you want to generalize all of us "Big Blue babys" into one category.

Now on another note I can't wait to find you hanging out in a Niki or whatever you like. I will take my slow turning Corsair and do my best to wipe your shadow making tail out of the AH sky. As I would try to do with Batz/Wotan/what ever his nick was last time he left but I am not going to go down that road. ;) I don't "duel" any longer either so don't try that route with me either. Time just isn't a thing I have an abundance of any longer.


I did see you saying I was a Niki jockey, you clearly do not know me well.

I understand some simply "want" the C-Hog.  But insisting that if our "wants" are not met the world is somehow unfair and arbitrary is tyrant-child behavior.  

I have never dueled, except like this and you all have lost badly here so . . .

I suggest that if "your guys" don't want to be flamed they should not spend all their time in incessant whining about the same stupid subject.  Come on, lighten up and fly.

As noted, I'll fly Blue all week to see how put out they are.  So far I'd say I would rather be in Big Blue than White Chrysanthemum.  How many more advantages do we need?  

My real comments, that no one wants to discuss on seeing as they are so busy knee jerking into little screams and spasms (thanks for proving my point) is that:

1)  The materiel difference and the qualitative and quantitative differences in the airwar (numbers of available trained pilots and sheer numbers of aircraft) are not modeled into this game or these setups.  Thus, when the Japanese side is competitive against the F4 people worry about historical issues that cannot be built into a setup.  E.g., no newbs to fly in Niks of inferior build-out.    

2) Last time the big Blue tears were rolling down the cheeks and "your guys" were competing for "nancy boys of the Universe" titles, I suggested that we build an Island Hopping Map that emphasized taking Islands that are heavily fortified and put in lots of boats, all Allied Aircraft asked for (excepting the English planes) and let the Navy have it's day against shipping and Island targets and the sons of Nippon.

I still think that's a swell idea, but I don't see the Big Blue association of milquetoaster poopy pants boys jumping in with both feet and asking for/volunteering to help build same.  Perhaps it is being built in secret?

So, to prove once and for all that you plucky fellows are simply whiners and will never be happy, I am offering what little time I have--and I doubt you have less--to assist in the building of an Island Hopping map, a simple one that utilizes some terrains we have already, anything I can do to help build a map that allows all US Iron to be employed in the Pacific so the Navy boys can have their day in the sun, I will do whatever I can.  You can all sit back and whine while I try to do it, but I must say:  I have zero experience on this and will need tons of help.  In fact, I could never be the lead on this project but I will devote precious flying time to same if we want to do this, as a community.  Lots of Islands, lots of stuff to blast and bomb, maybe a few large Jap bases representing Rabaul, etc.  I would only ask that we build this out and have representative planes of their classes without having only one type predominate.  That is, limited availability of say Nikis and C-hogs to a few bases/ships.  I would even suggest we leave the Chog and Niki out till the last day or two, kind of a mini rolling planeset.  I don't find the P-38 to be too much plane for the Japanese--few in the game know how to fly one.  Those that do are scary . . . but when I see them in a Jap ride I reckon I kill as often or more as be killed by one.  Or heck, have it be Navy/Marines only with maybe a few 38-eligible bases.  

But really, you and your guys do whine too much, if they have been criticized for it in the past as you indicate, perhaps there is a reason for it? The thin skin you guys show off when any one says anything about a US plane shows your biases up quite plainly.  They are just planes, it is only a game.  Lighten up, the whole point of my posts on this subject is to get you fellows to examine your complaints a bit and lighten up just a tad OK? If I go over the top, well, that's the way you all come off.  

I appreciate your coming in to side with your mates, it's obvious your squad is tight and that is a good thing, but taking it to the point of detriment of the entire community because you all, like petulant, tyrant children, simply have to have your way is obscene.

Really, you fellows should know I go over the top simply because it is a reflection of your posts, I know you'll knee jerk back like y'all did, and y'alls whining is becoming quite inane.  Might just fly for a few weeks and screw the worrying about what the setup is, ehhh?  I find it to be far more enjoyable that way.  Or you guys could drop your membership until the game reflects what you want, or as noted, build your own flight sim.  But trying to constantly hijack every outing for the sake of a few guys who petulantly insist they can never be wrong . . . . it gets tiresome.

Oh, I fly for no side, usually the less numbered side, but as noted, I'll be in Blue all week, regardless of numbers, just because.

Yours,

Sakai (out)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 08:39:58 AM by Sakai »
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2003, 08:51:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, but the Panzers stand in for the tanks that were there.  (The Japanese shouldn't have any)

What would the P-38 be standing in for?

Yeah, that's right.  Nothing.


Panzers suck in this setup in my opinion only.  Here's a suggestion, drop the Ostwind and Panzer from the setup.  The M-8/M-16/M-3 are plenty, all the work here is done by Planes anyways.  Little ground is taken, drop the Panzers--armored cars can give teh GV junkies their fix when needed and an M-8 can track and kill an M-16 and is not too much for teh M-16 to handle (hint:  balance).  

We don't have the P-38 featured much do we?  

How about a Nice Italian/Med campaign featuring the P-38/P-47 D-11&D-25 against the Luftwaffe/Italian rides?  Say, SpitV for the US Units that had those as well?  P-40Es?  No MkIXs?  Tell eveyrone up front it is expressly to feature those rides so they won't whine about what's missing?

Sakai
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Offline najdorf

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« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2003, 10:25:20 AM »
Sakai,

You just don't seem to get it.  Our squad flies F4u's.  The corsairs are relegated to 2 CV's, neither of which were close to the fight that was occuring around A24.  Also, in just comparing -1's and D's to the IJN aircraft, there is a firepower disparity that could easily be remedied by adding the Chog.  Now, nowhere is it stated by any allied flier that this setup without changing either one of these conditions makes it totally unfair.  And at no time do we state, "therefore we refuse to participate."

You seem to think that anytime someone says I would like to have such and such allied ride included in a setup, that the person is whining because they don't get an advantage.  Clearly, even as stated by Batz, the Chog does not give the allies any unbalancing advantage in a2a combat.  Neither would it give the allies an unfair advantage to have hogs available from ground bases.  We simply stated that, because those are our squadron rides and because they were historically present and would not be unbalancing in our opinion, we would like them included and more readily available.

I have never stated that this setup is unfair to the allies as it is.  These are merely personal preferences I and several others would like to see implemented.

So, to be clear, what we are asking for are two things.

1.  The first is that the hogs available in the game right now, be made available at land bases.  This is simply to keep us from having to fly through 3 empty sectors to get to some action.  I defy anyone to make a coherent and reasonable argument that this unbalances the arena.

2.  The other is that the Chog be made available to even the firepower edge of the N1K's specifically, and the Ki61's and Zekes have to a lesser extent over the 6 .50cals.  Again, the performance of the Chog is no better than that of the D and less than that of the -1.  It simply has cannons instead of .50 cals.  No one thinks this unbalances the a2a combat.  The argument, as I understand it from Batz, is that the ability to hit ground targets in the Chog would unbalance it by giving allies a big edge in destroying ack.  This may or may not be true.  However, I'm not interested in it for that purpose.

Now, if these changes are not made, which it seems quite likely they won't be, I'm not going to throw up my hands and say, "that's it, I quit because this is unfair."  So tell me how it is that we are crying "big blue tears" because we are not getting our way.

Offline Reschke

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« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2003, 11:30:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sakai
I did see you saying I was a Niki jockey, you clearly do not know me well.

I understand some simply "want" the C-Hog.  But insisting that if our "wants" are not met the world is somehow unfair and arbitrary is tyrant-child behavior.  

I have never dueled, except like this and you all have lost badly here so . . .

I suggest that if "your guys" don't want to be flamed they should not spend all their time in incessant whining about the same stupid subject.  Come on, lighten up and fly.


If you mean by me saying "Now on another note I can't wait to find you hanging out in a Niki or whatever you like." then that was all implied by your BB ID and nothing more.

Quote
Originally posted by Sakai


My real comments, that no one wants to discuss on seeing as they are so busy knee jerking into little screams and spasms (thanks for proving my point) is that:

1)  The materiel difference and the qualitative and quantitative differences in the airwar (numbers of available trained pilots and sheer numbers of aircraft) are not modeled into this game or these setups.  Thus, when the Japanese side is competitive against the F4 people worry about historical issues that cannot be built into a setup.  E.g., no newbs to fly in Niks of inferior build-out.    


I didn't think I had a knee jerk reaction to your comments. To put it simply I wanted you to let you know that some of us in USN based squadrons can see both sides of the issue at hand and respect both sides of the argument.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Sakai

2) Last time the big Blue tears were rolling down the cheeks and "your guys" were competing for "nancy boys of the Universe" titles, I suggested that we build an Island Hopping Map that emphasized taking Islands that are heavily fortified and put in lots of boats, all Allied Aircraft asked for (excepting the English planes) and let the Navy have it's day against shipping and Island targets and the sons of Nippon.

I still think that's a swell idea, but I don't see the Big Blue association of milquetoaster poopy pants boys jumping in with both feet and asking for/volunteering to help build same.  Perhaps it is being built in secret?

So, to prove once and for all that you plucky fellows are simply whiners and will never be happy, I am offering what little time I have--and I doubt you have less--to assist in the building of an Island Hopping map, a simple one that utilizes some terrains we have already, anything I can do to help build a map that allows all US Iron to be employed in the Pacific so the Navy boys can have their day in the sun, I will do whatever I can.  You can all sit back and whine while I try to do it, but I must say:  I have zero experience on this and will need tons of help.  In fact, I could never be the lead on this project but I will devote precious flying time to same if we want to do this, as a community.  Lots of Islands, lots of stuff to blast and bomb, maybe a few large Jap bases representing Rabaul, etc.  I would only ask that we build this out and have representative planes of their classes without having only one type predominate.  That is, limited availability of say Nikis and C-hogs to a few bases/ships.  I would even suggest we leave the Chog and Niki out till the last day or two, kind of a mini rolling planeset.  I don't find the P-38 to be too much plane for the Japanese--few in the game know how to fly one.  Those that do are scary . . . but when I see them in a Jap ride I reckon I kill as often or more as be killed by one.  Or heck, have it be Navy/Marines only with maybe a few 38-eligible bases.  



I personally have never seen this proposed and would LOVE to see it happen. What sort of help would like to get from my 5-10 hours of free time in the week? :) Seriously if you need some help let me know because I would absolutely love to have a chance to recreate the island hopping and such in a series of maps if it was possible. I know its not possible to have over a 512x512 map right now but who knows what the future holds other than hitech. Personally I would like to have a setup with New Georgia and the surrounding area (Rabaul, etc...) represented in a map. Rolling planeset in the arena to represent different years and introduce them each day...sounds like a winner to me. Even if it does go back to the old AW and WB days of past glory.

Quote
Originally posted by Sakai


But really, you and your guys do whine too much, if they have been criticized for it in the past as you indicate, perhaps there is a reason for it? The thin skin you guys show off when any one says anything about a US plane shows your biases up quite plainly.  They are just planes, it is only a game.  Lighten up, the whole point of my posts on this subject is to get you fellows to examine your complaints a bit and lighten up just a tad OK? If I go over the top, well, that's the way you all come off.  

I appreciate your coming in to side with your mates, it's obvious your squad is tight and that is a good thing, but taking it to the point of detriment of the entire community because you all, like petulant, tyrant children, simply have to have your way is obscene.



Again I really do not get how you thought my post was me whining about a setup and that may be because I was looking at both sides of the issue and did read the entire thread before making my post. I do defend my guys but I will also defend the CT Staff since they do have the time to devote to making these setups happen. If they are skewed then its ok we are all human and mistakes happen.

Quote
Originally posted by Sakai


Really, you fellows should know I go over the top simply because it is a reflection of your posts, I know you'll knee jerk back like y'all did, and y'alls whining is becoming quite inane.  Might just fly for a few weeks and screw the worrying about what the setup is, ehhh?  I find it to be far more enjoyable that way.  Or you guys could drop your membership until the game reflects what you want, or as noted, build your own flight sim.  But trying to constantly hijack every outing for the sake of a few guys who petulantly insist they can never be wrong . . . . it gets tiresome.

Oh, I fly for no side, usually the less numbered side, but as noted, I'll be in Blue all week, regardless of numbers, just because.

Yours,

Sakai (out)


Dropping out of a game till the game reflects what we want does absolutely nothing for the game or someones desires. I wouldn't give it a first thought for that reason there. There is not a game out right now that remotely has what I am looking for in the game itself.

Lastly Sakai. I am looking forward to flying for a few hours this month. Hopefully I will be able to break the 10 hour mark for the tour this coming week. I don't remember how long its been since I flew more than 5 hours in a tour.
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2003, 11:39:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf
Sakai,

You just don't seem to get it.  


Yes, I do Najdorf and thank you for enunciating your position again, though I think you and I are at crossed positions and I am not really interested in the Corsair thing much if any at all.  

I don't have a problem with Corsairs, anywhere of any type, I have a problem with the incessant whining from certain groups that don't get their way.  I don't think Land Based Corsairs is too much to ask at all.  But the way you guys go off about it . . .

The C Hog as an overbalance issue I simply don't care one way or the other (I tend to think Brady has more reason on his side than you or Arlo do becaus he has for me backed it up with data), but there are certain groups of plane lovers that go absolutely berserk about their pet rides.  I am picking on you guys because you go so absolutely overboard that it is easy to do so.  Try making yourselves smaller targets if you don't wish for people to flame you.  

Brady has adequately addressed the firepower issue, I know you guys don't believe him, but then my whole point is you fellows do not come off as being reasonable.  My personal advice is do not get into close quarters low turning combats with Nikis, hit and run them.  Hey, flying FM2s against La5s and Hurri IICs can be disastrous too, but I do it and sometimes land many kills.  There is an enormous qualitative difference between Japanese and Russian or US/English cannon--enormous.  To my personal thinking, there is no place for the CHog outside the MA because the quintessential Marine CT ride for me will always be the 6 .50 loadout. Since I routinely bag jap planes with 4 .50s, 6 seems plenty to me.  If offered the 4C, I would only fly it in ground attack (and I think at Okinawa the 4C earned the praise of Marines it supported thus no?).  But that's just me.

What some of us seem to be trying to point out is that no matter how badly infatuated with one plane one group might be, they are still a subset of a larger community bound by some constraints.  Said constraints might not always work in favor of a persons pet ride.  

Now, as I noted, there are Spit IX whiners too--guys who whine for and against.  It's just that these single specialized requests are so narrow in their focus, that maybe they don't get a hearing because to an outside objective observer (I don't care what I fly and have no attachment to the CT staffers--ask Brady I am always ragging him about that stupid He177) it looks like whining.  After awhile you guys will be dismissed as being one-trick ponys.  If no one reads your stuff anymore, best to find a new way to make yourself heard, you see my point?

Hence my idea to build a Marines map, Island Hopping, one that features Corsairs.  Corsairs and SBDS/TBMs/A-20s/B-26s against Nippon.  I think that would be great fun.  Lots of small Islands for Marines to attack and land their amtraks on, capturing island after Island.  And it would be the perfect place to showcase the Corsair.  All the Corsairs.  All the pretty, pretty corsairs.  

But, when we have balanced, good sets running, why all the carping about "our squad has to have the specialized ride it demands"?  

Hey I support your requests too, but I am saying that when Arlo starts on a jag and Slash starts in and you guys all start jumpig up and down . . . .it looks like cryin' time to me.  That's just one man's opinion, you are free to piss on me.  

Hey, I love the P-40 and the Jug.  I am fond of the Zeke as well and I think the D3a gets screwed in its handling modeling.  But you know I always end up in a 109 or 190A5 someplace so guys like you can fly squad nights and whine that no one does anything for them.

You know what I mean?  

Sakai
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Offline Sakai

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« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2003, 11:47:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
I personally have never seen this proposed and would LOVE to see it happen. What sort of help would like to get from my 5-10 hours of free time in the week? :) Seriously if you need some help let me know because I would absolutely love to have a chance to recreate the island hopping and such in a series of maps if it was possible. I know its not possible to have over a 512x512 map right now but who knows what the future holds other than hitech. Personally I would like to have a setup with New Georgia and the surrounding area (Rabaul, etc...) represented in a map. Rolling planeset in the arena to represent different years and introduce them each day...sounds like a winner to me. Even if it does go back to the old AW and WB days of past glory.


Well, you got my point and obviously you see past my sarcasm and silliness, salue to you sir.

Let's do it, let's ask the CT to consider a nice Island hopping map that featureds the Corsair.  It was a highly useful plane that the Marines made famous, shouldn't we acknowledge that in a setup?  There are tons of guys who fly Big Blue in the MA who would check that out as well.  

Help?  Well, I am simply saying that rather than complain myself I propose we do something about the lack of Corsair Setups and make one.  So where do we start?  Begging for help most likely, let's start the pleas and see what comes of it.

We need some help, and perhaps you and I can assist in details to be included in a map?

If we need to learn the Terrain Editor, well then that's what we need to do.  Perhaps there are existing maps that could be used as fodder to make it go faster rather than recreating the wheel?  I envision many close together small islands.  A couple-few or single bases each.  Lots of ack to defeat and plenty shore batteries and a VH or two.  No panzers for the Japanese, only M8s.  

Oh yeah baby, Island Hopping!

Sakai
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Offline najdorf

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« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2003, 12:18:32 PM »
Sakai,

You're doing a little better but you are still reporting the facts inacurately.  I have never "carped"  'I demand this ride for my squad.'

Your statement to that effect tells me two things:

1st-  You completely trivialize our request and desire to have F4U's available to fly in their historical enviroment.  It may mean nothing to you but consider this:  Of the many CT setups currently in que, this is the only one that has the F4U available.  IJN are in the same bind.  This is the only setup that includes the N1K, but I digress.  The point being, we are limited to this one setup and we can't even get our rides with general availability.  We will have to wade through 15 more Euro based sets before we even rotate back to the F4f vs. A6M2 setup.  I understand that means little to you since the only thing you are concerned with is general balance in the setup.  But take a moment to try and understand our position and therefore our frustration.

Which takes me to point 2.  We are somewhat frustrated.  But, you inacurately portray that frustration as being caused by an unreasonable desire to have access to planes that will unbalance the arena.  Our frustration is due to the fact that our requests are not given due consideration.  Brady states unequivically that he's not going to change the setup no matter what.  Now that bothers me.  You would think that we could at least experiment for a few days with some changes and see how it goes.  We are simply told, I tried that years ago and thought it was a failure.  Well, we are asking for a recall on that decision.  We are not demanding it, we are not going to a corner to pout if we don't get it, we are trying to DISCUSS it.

So when you jump into the middle of this thread and right off the bat go into "Shut up ya whinning crybabies," without any consideration of the actual issues and competing interests in play.  I think you can see how we might be less than receptive to anything you might have to say about the issue.

What your posts in this thread have done would be similar if I took your request for P-38's and said, "ONce again we have to listen to that snivelling crybaby Sakai asking to have the P-38 added to an arena that would clearly unbalance it.  Why doesn't this guy just dry up with all his Lightning tears and shut up and fly what's available."

Now that statement would be an unfair response to your request and one that takes it out of context in that it completely changes the nature and tone of the request.  And that is exactly what you have done in response to our request for changes to this arena.

Offline Sakai

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« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2003, 12:23:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf
Sakai,

You're doing a little better but you are still reporting the facts inacurately.  I have never "carped"  'I demand this ride for my squad.'


Maybe I am not tallking to just you kind sir.  Tracking the several points you see, the response is somewhat broader than just ot you, sorry for any confusion.

Now get on the Island Hopping bus.

Sakai
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Offline Reschke

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« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2003, 12:26:00 PM »
Sakai,

You will find my reply in your other post. They may move us to the TE forum but that is alright with me as well. I have some unit information and approximate locations in a notebook I wrote alot of useless knowledge in once upon a time. Now it seems I have to locate that book.
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Offline Oldman731

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Brady, not to whine, dude.....
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2003, 12:26:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf
the plane I feared the least in this setup was a Corsair.

Agreed.

- oldman (who, because he generally ends up flying for the Emperor, would appreciate it if more Corsairs were enabled)