Author Topic: spit14 vs. p38? (Read 6658 times)

B17Skull12 · « **on:** September 23, 2003, 05:54:28 PM »

who would win. waas aruging with akak last night. my guess is a spit14 flown in the right hand could guarntee a win over even a well flown p38. ive spent lots of time in TA with trainers working on it so i know what im doing. ive looked at htc charts. spit14 seems to be better in speed and climb. all alt. ill draw a chart of what i would do after im done with homework.

skulll12

ramzey · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:39:10 PM »

spit;)

if you not meet extreemly good p38 driver;-)

Kweassa · « **Reply #2 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:44:14 PM »

The overall performance edge is most decisively with the Spit14, that's undeniable.

But the problem is, while the P-38 can go vertical at will, the suspicious FM at going vertical(in case HT may read this, I'm only talking about the discussions on the tail-slide or the hammerhead!

), makes it incredibly difficult for a high torque plane to attempt to follow the P-38.

What makes it worse, a pilot is very much more reluctant to push the Spit14 to it's limits due to the humongous torque factor. So usually the Spit14 pilot is somewhat more passive, compared to the guy in the P-38. Often, this may result in a tactical disadvantage for the Spit14, unless the pilot is really experienced with the plane and is willing to push to the edge of the envelope.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2003, 10:27:31 PM »

Might as well post this-

Theres anecdotal evidence that the P38L could out-turn the Spit14.

Staga · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2003, 12:12:46 AM »

There's also anecdotal evidences that cyclops did exist and that woman was made from the man's rib.

mos · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2003, 12:24:26 AM »

Myths are not 'anecdotal.' That's why they're called myths.

Karnak · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2003, 01:00:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
Might as well post this-

Theres anecdotal evidence that the P38L could out-turn the Spit14.

This is the kind of data that gets people in a huff about modeling while it in fact tells us nothing. Without knowing the energy states of the two aircraft we can't base anything off of this.

To put it another way, if the P-38L could out turn the Spitfire Mk XIV then it could out turn the Spitfire Mk IX and AH has them all horribly modeled. This comment of mine is based on the non-anecdotal evidence that there was little to choose between the Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk XIV in regards to turning.

I would be interested in how an aircraft with a wing loading of ~60lbs/sq.ft. out turns a fighter with ~40lbs/sq.ft.

thrila · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2003, 01:49:08 AM »

I've not had any probs mixing it up with p38's when i fly a spit14.

Guppy · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2003, 03:42:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
This comment of mine is based on the non-anecdotal evidence that there was little to choose between the Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk XIV in regards to turning.

It's interesting to note that the AFDU drew a very similar conclusion when comparing the Spitfire V and the Spitfire IX; I wonder if they ever flew a V against an XIV?

The AFDU evaluation of the P-38F is quite definite that the Spitfire V could outturn it. Similarly, a 1st FG pilot (P-38s, MTO) is quoted in Pacifica's "Aces in Combat" series as saying that the P-38 could outturn anything in the theatre except the Spitfire.

The P-38 might be able to get inside the Spitfire briefly using some of its tricks (gentle no-torque stall, flaps, asymmetric thrust) but it had better capitalise quickly or the Spitfire dominates the sustained turning fight.

HoHun · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2003, 03:46:03 PM »

Hi Karnak,

>I would be interested in how an aircraft with a wing loading of ~60lbs/sq.ft. out turns a fighter with ~40lbs/sq.ft.

The 40 psf fighter could have a maximum lift coefficient of 1.2 and the 60 psf fighter one just above 1.8, for example.

I haven't checked if that's how Spitfire and P-38 compare, but if the P-38 drops its flaps, this example might not even be unrealistic.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

leitwolf · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2003, 04:28:04 PM »

The guy in the Spitfire14 clearly sucks if he's losing a 1on1 against a P-38L. One exception being pilots like Fester or Kappa in the Lightning, of course

The Spitfire can outrun, outdive, outclimb, outturn, outroll and outaccelerate the P38. It even looks better.

How can the 38 win?

flaps737 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2003, 05:19:55 PM »

I'm about 3 to 2 in p38 vs spit14. The 109 drivers in spit14 are tough opponents, have no problems out-turning them with the 38 though. The 38's fowler flaps make up for its higher wing loading.

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2003, 05:46:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by flaps737
I'm about 3 to 2 in p38 vs spit14. The 109 drivers in spit14 are tough opponents, have no problems out-turning them with the 38 though. The 38's fowler flaps make up for its higher wing loading.

im a 109 driver

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2003, 05:47:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by davidpt40
Might as well post this-

Theres anecdotal evidence that the P38L could out-turn the Spit14.

There's the famous duel between Lowell in a P-38H versus some RAF pilot in a Spitfire Mk XV, in which Lowell won the mock fight and a case of beer. Beat the Spitfire Mk XV in a turning stall fight.

ack-ack

thrila · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2003, 05:51:01 PM »

I haven't really played AH much in the past couple of months but in tour 42 i had 15 kills for 0 deaths against the p38 in the spit XIV- and i aint no stinkin 109 pilot.

i love spits.

I've not had any p38's out turn me.