german planes performances??!!

[Angus]

Hmm...AHGOD, you sure you are not missing something here:
! Adolph Glunz is the only pilot to serve the entire war and never be shot down"


I think you must be!

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Angus
Hmm...AHGOD, you sure you are not missing something here:
! Adolph Glunz is the only pilot to serve the entire war and never be shot down"


I think you must be!

Read a few books there Junior.  You might come to the realization that yes he was never shot down and yes he fought the entire war.

[GRUNHERZ]

Addi Glunz may well have been one of the best fighter pilots in WW2, never shot down, never wounded, 71 kills total, 68 of them in the west all through the war!

[GRUNHERZ]

Well they lasted from 39 to 45 - a period of 6 years - so at least we can say they are 52 times better than the French.

[Grendel]

Among     Addi Glunz, also the Finnish pilot Ilmari Juutilainen of 94 kills also flew from 1939 to 1945 and was never shot down

But the very high scores of the Luftwaffe pilots are number of lots and lots of factors. Many pilots of course flew for many years, but not all flew until war ended or they died - many also served in non flying duties, in HQ, as trainers and so on.

On the other hand lots of Brit and US pilots served numerous tours. So it is incorrect to lump them all "they served 30 missions and went home".

Take notice that many German top pilots came into service in 1942 or 1943, already  when German forces were in retreat. So also claiming that German pilots flew over friendly lines isn't the whole picture - especially in the eastern front they flew a lot in the hostile side of the front lines as well.

But a lot of Luftwaffe's successes can be attiributed to the suberb tactics and training, especially in the first half of the war. The Luftwaffe was the most formidable and most expererienced air force in teh world after the Spanish Civil War until maybe the 1943. Or even later, if they could have concentrated their forces. Fighting in four fronts caused unlimited string of problems, yet the pilots fought bravely.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Grendel
Among     Addi Glunz, also the Finnish pilot Ilmari Juutilainen of 94 kills also flew from 1939 to 1945 and was never shot down

This was the pilot whose name escaped me, from what I read he also never had a bullet hole in his aircraft.  Had to have been a wonder woman thing.  Awesome pilot.

[Widewing]

A couple of points gents:

The vast majority of 100+ victory Luftwaffe aces gained the largest percentage of their kills against the Soviets. Considering the state of Soviet aviation in their first two years of the war with Germany, that should not be a surprise. Indeed, the Finns abused them too, and usually flying lesser aircraft than the Luftwaffe.

As for Japanese and Soviet individual scores, historians generally believe that if you take their kill totals and divide by 3, you come closer to the actual totals. Both the Japanese and Soviets handed out "confirmed" kills like candy on halloween. Japan was especially generous in this regard, honoring almost every claim. Typically they over-claimed by a factor of 4, the highest of any major combatant in the war.

As to the Soviets, if you factor all claims of Luftwaffe aircraft and compare that to the total number fielded by the Germans, the Soviets would have killed the entire Luftwaffe (beginning in September of 1939) twice over. This doesn't mean that the Germans, Brits and Americans didn't over-claim, they surely did. However, many claims were disallowed by far stricter rules of confirmation than were employed by the Japanese and Soviets.

Many of the British pilots shot down in 1940 were recovered and were back in the air almost immediately. Likewise for German pilots defending against Allied bombing attacks. I believe that Hartmann was forced down 14 times during the course of the war in the east. Unfortunately for the Luftwaffe, there was no other option but to keep pilots in combat until they were dead or injured too badly to fly. That certainly contributed to their high kill scores. But, it should be stated that their level of skill was extraordinary by any standard.

My regards,

Widewing

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Widewing
A couple of points gents:


As for Japanese and Soviet individual scores, historians generally believe that if you take their kill totals and divide by 3, you come closer to the actual totals.

And it was these same historians that were in combat right?  LOL, historians are like Lawyers accept they make less.

[Pooh21]

the soviets( and indeed most commies) idea of warfare is throw more men at the enemy then he has bullets. say the Jerrys shoot 100 russkis and the commies kncok down 10 germans but only 20 germans come from pilot training the next month while 200 commies?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by AHGOD
And it was these same historians that were in combat right?  LOL, historians are like Lawyers accept they make less.

There's no rocket science involved. One merely examines the Japanese kill claims and compares them to actual Allied losses. The net result is that the Japanese claimed 4 times as many as the Allies lost. If all Japanese claims against the AVG were accurate, they would have been wiped out within three weeks of the start of the war. Japanese pilots claimed 85 AVG fighters in air to air combat. They actually shot down 4. That's it, just 4 fighters were lost to Japanese aircraft. In exchange, the AVG was paid bounties for 296 kills (some believe they actually killed no more than 120). The vast majority of AVG aircraft losses resulted from enemy bombing, prangs and a lack of spare parts leading many aircraft down for mechanical failure to be abandoned when the AVG retreated with the Chinese Army.

All it takes is someone willing to expend the time to research the records. Luftwaffe, RAF and American records were carefully kept and carefully preserved.

My regards,

Widewing

[GRUNHERZ]

I am always willing to accept the fact that communsts are insatiable liers...

[Nilsen]

Again.,..

After not reading any posts at all im going to agree with Grun here...

Make me proud as to what im agreeing to Grun, i trust your judgement

On to another matter.... I like well shaped female bumps.

[JAWS2003]

Check this guy, he never saw the eastern front. He downed more then 60 Spitfires.

Priler

Check Helmut Lipfert's list. He only start fighting in 1943. By then the Russians where no noobs no more.
 
Helmut Lipfert

I still think that it got to be something about those FW's and 109's that made them so effective.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by JAWS2003
Check this guy, he never saw the eastern front. He downed more then 60 Spitfires.

Priler

Check Helmut Lipfert's list. He only start fighting in 1943. By then the Russians where no noobs no more.
 
Helmut Lipfert

I still think that it got to be something about those FW's and 109's that made them so effective.

I have listings of the aces on the Western Front and you will be surprised that a lot of them whacked quite a few Spits.  Personally I think it is just the pilot and the skill they developed.  Some were just plain old gifted, 1 pilot i have great respect and admiration for is Dortenmann,  WeiB is another that comes to mind.  Hackl is another, there are so many to name.  They were just incredible in the rides they wee given.  Pokryshkin (SP?) was a great russian pilot and he deserves to be mentioned as well.

[AHGOD]

Another pilot worht mentioning was Marseilles.  He was an incredible shot and if I do recall he had the most kills in a couple minute.  He is one of my other favorite pilots.