german planes performances??!!

[ghi]

I have just found a List of the Flight Aces of WW2, and im wondering why most of the Allies have so few kills compared to the Axis??!!!

List: ( TOP FIVE OF EVERY COUNTRY )

AXIS: GERMANY:

352 - Erich Hartmann
301 - Gerhard Barkhorn
274 - Günther Rall
267 - Otto Kittel
258 - Walter Nowotny (2 ME-262)
+more than 100 pilots with more than 100 kills              
ITALY
26 - Andriano Visconti
22 - Teresio Martinoli
21 - Leonardo Ferulli
21 - Franco Lucchini
19 - Franco Bordoni Bisleri

JAPAN:
113 - Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
80 - Tetsuzo Iwamoto
70 - Shoichi Sugita
64 - Saburo Sakai
60 - Junichi Sasai

FINLAND
94 - Juutilainen, Eino Ilmari
75 - Wind, Hans Henrik
56 - Luukkanen, Eino Antero
44 - Lehtovaara, Urho Sakari
44 - Tuominen, Oiva Emil Kalervo

KROATIA:
40 - Mato Dubovak
38 - Cvitan Galic
18 - Mato Culinovic
18 - Ivan Jergovic
16 - Ljudevit Bencetic

BULGARIA:
14 - Stoyan Stoyanov
8 - Toplodowski

HUNGARY:
34 - Dezso Szentgyorgyi
26 - Gyorgy Debrody
26 - Lajos Tóth
25 - Laszlo Molnar
19 - Miklos Kenyeres

ROMANIA:
60 - Constantine Cantacuzine
53 - Alexandre Serbanescu
40 - Florian Budu
24 - Mucenica
20 - T. Greceanu

SLOWAKIA:
32 - Jan Reznak
28 - Izidor Kovarik
23 - Jan Gerthoffer
17 - Rudolf Bozk
16 - Frantisek Cyprich

NOW THE ALLIES:

USA:
40 - Richard I. Bong
38 - Thomas B. McGuire Jr.
34 - David McCampbell
28 - Francis S. Gabreski ( 6 Korea)
28 - Robert S. Johnson
27 - Charles H. MacDonald

GREAT BRITAIN:
37 - James E. Johnson
32 - Brendon E. Finucane (Irish)
29 - Robert Braham
29 - Robert Stanford Tuck
28 - F. R. Carey

SOWJET UNION:
62 - Ivan N. Kozuhedub
59 - Aleksandr I. Pokryshkin
58 - Grigori A. Rechkalov
57 - Nikolai Gulayev
52 - Arsenii V. Vorozheikin

FRANCE:
26 - Pierre H. Closterman
23 - Marcel Albert
21 - Jean Demozay
20 - Edmond Marin la Meslee
20 - Pierre LeGoan

POLAND:
22 - Stanislaw Skalski
18 - Witold Urbanowicz
16 - Eugeniusz Horbaczewski (+ 4 V1)
14 - Boleslaw "Mike" Gladych
12 - Jan Eugeniusz Zumbach

AUSTRALIA:
28 - Clive Caldwell
23 - C. C. Scherf
17 - Keith Truscott
15 - John Waddy
15 - Patrick C. Hughes

NEWZEALAND:
27 - Colin Falkland Gray
22 - Alan Christopher Deere
21 - William Vernon Crawford-Compton
21 - Raymond Brown Hessylyn
21 - Evan Dall Macjie

KANADA:
31 - George F. Beurling
21 - Vernon C. Woodward
21 - H. W. McLeod
17 - Robert W. McNair
17 - George Wittman

SOUTH AFRIKA:

35 - Adolf Gysbert Malan
34 - Marmaduke Pattle
23 - C. LeRoux
22 - P. H. Hugo
18 - A. G. Lewis

BELGIUM:
13 - Rodolphe de Hemicourt de Grunne
8 - Yvan Monceau de Bergendael
7 - Jean H. M. Offenberg
7 - Victor M. M. Ortmans
6 - Charles F. J. Detal

NORWAY:
15 - Sevin Heglund
11 - Werner Christie
10 - Helner G. E. Grundt-Spang
9 - Martin Y. Gran
9 - Marius Eriksen

Tschechien:
20 - Karel Miroslav Kuttelwascher
17 - Josef Frantisek
15 - Alois Vasatko
12 - Frantisek Perina
11 - Otto Smik


Now i wonder, how is this huge difference between the Axis and the Allies to explain ?
    Don't u think the german planes need a tune up in this game??!! ( FW190s, Ta152)

[whels]

most allied pilots rotated home after 25 30 missions i think,  the axis had to stay n fight the whole war.

Originally posted by ghi
I have just found a List of the Flight Aces of WW2, and im wondering why most of the Allies have so few kills compared to the Axis??!!!

List: ( TOP FIVE OF EVERY COUNTRY )

AXIS: GERMANY:

352 - Erich Hartmann
301 - Gerhard Barkhorn
274 - Günther Rall
267 - Otto Kittel
258 - Walter Nowotny (2 ME-262)
+more than 100 pilots with more than 100 kills              
ITALY
26 - Andriano Visconti
22 - Teresio Martinoli
21 - Leonardo Ferulli
21 - Franco Lucchini
19 - Franco Bordoni Bisleri

JAPAN:
113 - Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
80 - Tetsuzo Iwamoto
70 - Shoichi Sugita
64 - Saburo Sakai
60 - Junichi Sasai

FINLAND
94 - Juutilainen, Eino Ilmari
75 - Wind, Hans Henrik
56 - Luukkanen, Eino Antero
44 - Lehtovaara, Urho Sakari
44 - Tuominen, Oiva Emil Kalervo

KROATIA:
40 - Mato Dubovak
38 - Cvitan Galic
18 - Mato Culinovic
18 - Ivan Jergovic
16 - Ljudevit Bencetic

BULGARIA:
14 - Stoyan Stoyanov
8 - Toplodowski

HUNGARY:
34 - Dezso Szentgyorgyi
26 - Gyorgy Debrody
26 - Lajos Tóth
25 - Laszlo Molnar
19 - Miklos Kenyeres

ROMANIA:
60 - Constantine Cantacuzine
53 - Alexandre Serbanescu
40 - Florian Budu
24 - Mucenica
20 - T. Greceanu

SLOWAKIA:
32 - Jan Reznak
28 - Izidor Kovarik
23 - Jan Gerthoffer
17 - Rudolf Bozk
16 - Frantisek Cyprich

NOW THE ALLIES:

USA:
40 - Richard I. Bong
38 - Thomas B. McGuire Jr.
34 - David McCampbell
28 - Francis S. Gabreski ( 6 Korea)
28 - Robert S. Johnson
27 - Charles H. MacDonald

GREAT BRITAIN:
37 - James E. Johnson
32 - Brendon E. Finucane (Irish)
29 - Robert Braham
29 - Robert Stanford Tuck
28 - F. R. Carey

SOWJET UNION:
62 - Ivan N. Kozuhedub
59 - Aleksandr I. Pokryshkin
58 - Grigori A. Rechkalov
57 - Nikolai Gulayev
52 - Arsenii V. Vorozheikin

FRANCE:
26 - Pierre H. Closterman
23 - Marcel Albert
21 - Jean Demozay
20 - Edmond Marin la Meslee
20 - Pierre LeGoan

POLAND:
22 - Stanislaw Skalski
18 - Witold Urbanowicz
16 - Eugeniusz Horbaczewski (+ 4 V1)
14 - Boleslaw "Mike" Gladych
12 - Jan Eugeniusz Zumbach

AUSTRALIA:
28 - Clive Caldwell
23 - C. C. Scherf
17 - Keith Truscott
15 - John Waddy
15 - Patrick C. Hughes

NEWZEALAND:
27 - Colin Falkland Gray
22 - Alan Christopher Deere
21 - William Vernon Crawford-Compton
21 - Raymond Brown Hessylyn
21 - Evan Dall Macjie

KANADA:
31 - George F. Beurling
21 - Vernon C. Woodward
21 - H. W. McLeod
17 - Robert W. McNair
17 - George Wittman

SOUTH AFRIKA:

35 - Adolf Gysbert Malan
34 - Marmaduke Pattle
23 - C. LeRoux
22 - P. H. Hugo
18 - A. G. Lewis

BELGIUM:
13 - Rodolphe de Hemicourt de Grunne
8 - Yvan Monceau de Bergendael
7 - Jean H. M. Offenberg
7 - Victor M. M. Ortmans
6 - Charles F. J. Detal

NORWAY:
15 - Sevin Heglund
11 - Werner Christie
10 - Helner G. E. Grundt-Spang
9 - Martin Y. Gran
9 - Marius Eriksen

Tschechien:
20 - Karel Miroslav Kuttelwascher
17 - Josef Frantisek
15 - Alois Vasatko
12 - Frantisek Perina
11 - Otto Smik


Now i wonder, how is this huge difference between the Axis and the Allies to explain ?
    Don't u think the german planes need a tune up in this game??!! ( FW190s, Ta152)

[Rude]

Axis flyers in this game just need to learn to fly.

[Ike 2K#]

pls note that the Eastern front was a turkey shoot for the Luftwaffe between 1941 and 42.

[Westy]

Essentially...

 Axis pilots flew in combat beginning from when they started the war back in 1939 (or even earlier in China or the Spanish revolution) and until they died or the war ended in '45.  And even when shot down most often they were over "friendly" territory and so they rejoined thier groups immediately.

 The Allied pilots (US and UK anywayw) on the other hand had to be in theatre for a shorter "tour of duty." One reason was that the Allies wanted to ensure that they retained thier combat pilot experiuence to train newr pilots.  However when Allied pilots were shot down, from anti-air flak, mechanical malfunction or by an enemy pilot, they were usually over "enemy" territoy and captured  if not killed. Taking them out of action for the rest of the war.

[Charon]

You also get the impression (at least I do) that a lot of pilots on the Eastern front had a lot of leeway in deciding when to engage or when to avoid engaging and how long to stay engaged in the fight. The top pilots seemd to be selective hunters, compared to the pilots on the Western front who had no choice in engaging bombers and encountering poor numerical odds directly defending the homeland. If you look at some of the top allied pilots and their kill per sortie ratios, then you can imagine a similar score to the LW pilots flying in the west were they kept in combat and as long as they were able to find LW planes to engage in any numbers.

Also, you can't discount the early war tactical advantages the LW and German forces in general enjoyed from their experience in Spain. Many of the early victories were achieved with lesser quality equipment but better tactics, experienced personnel, better doctrine and leadership.

Charon

[DmdNexus]

It's also a well known fact that kills during WWII were also grossly over stated - by all sides.

[Staga]

Not exactly:
Russians lost more aircrafts against FiAF than what our pilots "officially" shot down (awarded victories).
IIRC also at some point of the war Russian pilots got only victories ground troops could find so basically if the fight was fought over enemy ground they couldn't prove their victories.

[Furball]

German pilots flew until they died, or the war ended.

Allied pilots flew a tour, then rotated to train new pilots to give them their experience.

[acepilot2]

Not sure, but I think the germans also counted a couple of ground kills too...

[wetrat]

Originally posted by acepilot2
Not sure, but I think the germans also counted a couple of ground kills too...

Fighter pilots? I don't think so..

[Sancho]

If you look at total kills per missions flown you will see a much different picture.  Lot of US aces will compare very favorably with the German top aces.

[Kweassa]

Another interesting thought, is the 'aces' we know today, might not have survived through the end, if they had no choice but to fight the whole duration of the war like JP or German pilots.

 I'm very sure if that happened we'd also get to see 200 kill aces in the Allied side, but some of them could be the aces we know today, but a lot of others, may be not, with our currently 'familiar faces' being killed in action earlier than we may want to think.

 In the end, it seems to me the 'hot-shots' never can endure, and only those who can firmly take the years of stress under fire, and still maintain a sense of self-control, survive through the war and become a super-ace. Their flying skills may seem like nothing special, but they survived!

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Rude
Axis flyers in this game just need to learn to fly.

Well if you go over the last few tours you will see that the D9 has the highest K/D among any non perked fighter.  Maybe it is the allied pilots wearing the tutus who should be wondering.

[AHGOD]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Another interesting thought, is the 'aces' we know today, might not have survived through the end, if they had no choice but to fight the whole duration of the war like JP or German pilots.

 I'm very sure if that happened we'd also get to see 200 kill aces in the Allied side, but some of them could be the aces we know today, but a lot of others, may be not, with our currently 'familiar faces' being killed in action earlier than we may want to think.

 In the end, it seems to me the 'hot-shots' never can endure, and only those who can firmly take the years of stress under fire, and still maintain a sense of self-control, survive through the war and become a super-ace. Their flying skills may seem like nothing special, but they survived!

Adolph Glunz can attest to your statement, and so can Dortenmann.  Glunz especially he was a work of art in an airplane.  sad to say the last I had heard he had alzheimers and was not in good condition.  If you do not know anything about him you might want to read up on him.  He never broke 100 kills, but he was one of the pilots that went up alone, and was never shot down the entire war.  Simply amazing fellow.