Author Topic: Participation and DAR  (Read 703 times)

SeaWulfe

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2001, 01:53:00 PM »
Someone else said that furballing improves your skill, was not directed at you Leph.

Okay, so you have an FT setup in the MA. Fields open 24/7. Normal day, 80 people online (not prime time).

No one side is losing, but rather than just dogfight in the middle of a virtual war they want to go to some place just to fly circles and daisy chain one another. Lets say 30 people go there because it's just "easier" to find a fight.

When we had the map with the center islands, you'd regularly see 1/3 to 1/2 your country there when you are down to your mainland and a few bordering islands. That's far from losing and you can still up from behind the lines. Instead, HQ, cities and factories are now getting hit because rather than these guys fighting on the front line... they are LITERALLY fighting in another world (read: arena).

You are thereby dilluting the overall population of the main arena. Sure, it READS 80 people in there... but only 50 you can fight if you don't want to sit in fighter town.

I furball/dogfight/whatever all the time, but I like doing it over a target we plan on attacking or capturing. I'm not playing the strat game, I'm helping out the strat guys and having my fun doing it.

My point is: I see absolutely no reason to add a fighter town other than to make it easier for someone to just log on, take off and already be in the middle of a fight. You can do that as is already, find a field under attack or that you are attacking.

I have limited time to fly, if I don't see anything on the map that I can fly to in reasonable time I log off or go into H2H for a few quick fights.


Offline Nifty

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2001, 02:03:00 PM »
As always, I'll try to come up with a way to combine the best arguments/ideas from both sides of the coin and come up with a solution, so hwere goes!!!

Leph has very good arguments about the need for a "fighter town" and I think SW has good arguments that the "town" would be overused when it shouldn't be used.  So why not compromise?  Leph is saying that the fighter town would be used when you just couldn't up from anywhere else (at least from what I'm gathering.)  Well, why not allow the fighter town, but have it available ONLY when it's truly needed (e.g. all FH's are down at remaining fields.)  How could this be accomplished?  One way is to add a FH and runway strip at the HQ that's only uppable in certain situations (all FH down, 95% FH down, whatever.)  This FH would never be destroyable, but only be active if the appropriate condition would be met.  Since usually the last few fields left for your country are near your HQ, the HQ is a good choice for the "Fighter Town."

Of course, location of the "FT" could be somewhere other than the HQ, but I think the premise behind this caters to both arguments.  You'll always have a place to up from if things get bad, and on the other side of the coin, it doesn't create an arena inside the arena.

As for the persistant fighter town arena within the arena concept, the only way I see that working is to have each of the 3 countries have one invulnerable base each in the middle of our maps, e.g. move the little islands in the big Uterus lake closer together for this map.  Perfect arena inside the arena.  
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Lephturn

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2001, 07:01:00 AM »
I do see your point SeaWulfe, and I agree the danger of it becoming too popular is the only negative I see to doing it.

Nifty has the right idea.  The key is to limit Fighter Town in such a way that it's not too popular.  How could we do that?  I'll go with no drops, no ordinance, 25% - 50% gas max, maybe even no vehicles... but we might need to be able to launch them too.. dunno.  I think the number of people who would furball in that enviroment would be minimal.  I know I enjoy the same type of fighting you do SW... and I'd only use a "fighter town" if my other option was to log off.  I think if you limited it to say, maximum 25% gas and spaced the fields just right, it's use would be minimal most of the time.  I really don't think there are that many people that like to "play daisy chain" as you put it.  I think there are more like me that want a good A2A battle, but if they can't get that because of arena conditions, want an option other than logging off.

Lephturn

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-25-2001).]

Offline anRky

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2001, 08:06:00 AM »
Lephturn:
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I do see your point SeaWulfe, and I agree the danger of it becoming too popular is the only negative I see to doing it.
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On the contrary, if it has the potential of becoming 'too popular', then that's the perfect reason to do it.  Why not give customers what they want and increase arena population?  (Personally, I think the risk of it becoming excessively popular is quite low.)

anRky

SeaWulfe

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2001, 09:00:00 AM »
Leph, just to clarify.. (I think you may already understand what I mean, but I'm just going to reiterate what you may already know)

A daisy chain is a string of friendly and enemy aircraft all trying to shoot down the target in front of them. (Like, friendly being chased by 2 enemies being chased by 1 friendly being chased by 1 enemy being chased by 2 more friendlies etc..)

Those are pretty common in furball areas, I use to come across those in early WB.. I called it the "Skittles handsomehunk Line" You'd see frogs, perkles and urine stains chasing each other around... I'd dive in and clean up a few of 'em...

Anyways, I'm very wary of putting an arena inside of an arena (like Dejavu) because it might take away from the intended action of that arena.
-SW

lazs

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Participation and DAR
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2001, 09:16:00 AM »
lep.. in all the years of listening to you I have never agreed with you more on so many points.   U have nailed it IMO.

The only point i may not totally agree on is the figher town concept.  I have in the past and still do, think it is an "ok" comprimise.  I also like, for a longer term solution... the "area" arena with early, mid an late areas.  I believe that things would sort themselves out with choice.

sea... I believe you when you say that you can find the kind of fight you want.   why shouldn't I? but.. You spend a lot more time than most on line and...   You definitly have a different mindset on how the game should be played and what is action enough than I do.   I agree with lep that people are only going to do what is fun for them and when that is not an option or simply  WAY to much trouble... they log.  The very nature of the individulaist makes your assertion that we organize a furball... ludicrous and naive.   Your, or my, force of will is not enough and shouldn't be.   I would prove my assertion by asking you to personally... figure out that point that the game is getting not fun and then use your force of will to create a different situation that would make every single individual stay and participate in your idea.  I certainly do not find the least bit of fun in capping a field at 15K to get a shot at the ridiculous bombers so that they can't drop all the FH's.  Any time i fly more than a sector and find no action (watch the bar decrease to zip while I drone on over) then I am pissed.   If I burn 3/4 of a tank of fuel in a futile attempt to find a fite I am pissed.   If my only fites are fiting over scraps or being gangbanged or fighting buffs or vehicles... I log.
lazs