Author Topic: Bombers in the CT (Read 1690 times)

LtMagee · « **on:** October 19, 2003, 12:07:42 PM »

You decide.

After last night, I am all for eliminating bomber formations. Their guns are leathel and with one pass the fighter hanger is dead. With no maned field guns etc etc etc etc....well you know the story.

While guys are out dogfighting, a bomber flight or two whipes out the FH. Guys dont like to attack bomber formations due to the fact that the odds of stopping them are slim.

Arlo, you guys know what I am talking about.

Remove the B26 with the tail gunner.
Activate maned field gunners.
Remove bomber formations.
Shorten FH down times.
Remove all bombers altogether.

Which do you guys want?

Arlo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2003, 02:00:50 PM »

Dunno .... even if we removed level bombers there'd be guys jaboing the FHs where the furball is just because they believe they're "helping the war effort." Even with a map chock fulla targets the bases feeding the fights seem mighty appealing to the dedicated porker. But I guess it doesn't help the matter any when those bombing bases away from the fight are labeled "milkers" and ridiculed by the furballers when, in reality, they should probably be treated as a non-entity unless they're bombing the HQ.

And with resets causing havoc on most CT maps (resulting in bizarre glitches) ... then landgrabbing should be made "pert near" impossible ... if not entirely so. Maybe 30 troops to capture and increasing the hardness as well as lowering the downtime of aaa and ack.

*ShruG*

I dunno .. I'm bout convinced that there's damn near nothin' that can't be fugged up by bored players bent on it.

Furball · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2003, 02:25:23 PM »

just disable ord all together and put Killshooter on enemy hangers. Lets watch the fireworks as strat ho's try to pork a base then.

Gypsy Baron · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2003, 04:23:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
-SNIP-
And with resets causing havoc on most CT maps (resulting in bizarre glitches) ... then landgrabbing should be made "pert near" impossible ... if not entirely so. Maybe 30 troops to capture and increasing the hardness as well as lowering the downtime of aaa and ack.

*ShruG*

I dunno .. I'm bout convinced that there's damn near nothin' that can't be fugged up by bored players bent on it.

Stopping the land grab with a 30 or 300 troops minimum
would sure help alot. Once that is accomplished then it
would remain up to those in each country to stop the
furball busters from whacking FH's and fuel...

Encourage them to concentrate on AMMO/RADAR/BARRACKS
as their targets...chastise them if they persist in PORKING
FH/fuel resources...( I often whack barracks and ammo
bunkers to stop/slow down land grabbers as a matter of
routine ) On that note, the 30 minute down time is too
short for ammo/barracks but too long for FH's...

Is the hardness and downtime settable for individual classes
of objects so a different setting could be applied to FH's vs BH's
or fuel vs ammo? If so, then adjusting these values
would help.

I'd also like to see SMALLER CT maps than even the current
10 x 10 or whatever it is. A 6 x 6 grid would be ideal considering
the numbers that us the CT, IMO.

That spacing between A2 & A3 was perfect for furballing
while it lasted yesterday...hogs and ponies meeting mid-channel,
all below 8K and engaging in 3 v 4 and 5 v 6 sized fights.
I also managed some excellent 1 v 1 engagements yesterday
near A11 but , being a low alt turn & burn type I prefer to
fight over the water where ground clutter doesn't interfere
with the fight.

Those are my $0.02 for the time being...

eskimo2 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 19, 2003, 05:14:26 PM »

I really like buff hunting.

I also think that "land grabber" keep the game going, from becoming too static.

eskimo

Easyscor · « **Reply #5 on:** October 19, 2003, 05:54:30 PM »

Actually I think it's that many new guys to the CT don't understand the CT. It's up to the regulars in the CT to explain the etiquette.

Upping a buff is fine just don't kill the frontline FHs or fuel as a solo player, it makes no sense in the CT and most CT regulars will admit the occasional Tuesday bombing runs with 60-80 people are fun for everybody.

Bomber pilots, plink the field ack or hit the strat but leave the frontline FHs and fuel alone.

And trust me LtMagee, there are guys out there who kill Buffs as casually as you'd swat a fly.

Sundiver · « **Reply #6 on:** October 19, 2003, 06:43:17 PM »

I for one enjoy the heck out of a good bombing run. Not using them like JABO's but a nice level run from 15-17k that wipes out a base.

Not many people are able to do that regularly so overall it should be a non-issue any rate.

The CT is becoming a Furball elitist playground. If you buff or enjoy GV's it's rapidly becoming so you're not welcome.

PS:

I enjoy a good furball as much as the next person but there ARE other aspects to the game.

Let the flames commence.

Arlo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2003, 08:00:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sundiver

The CT is becoming a Furball elitist playground. If you buff or enjoy GV's it's rapidly becoming so you're not welcome.

Oh contraire. I've been a supporter of "total warfare" in the CT ever since I signed on. The problem isn't really the toys ... it's the way they're used. I've laughed at furballers whining about bombs hitting their base in the past. But experiencing, first hand, a really fun fight getting stopped dead in it's tracks by first mutual FH porking then one side capturing one of the bases (of the two closest bases on the map) ... and seeing players who don't have the time to deal with it switch to the MA or log, I can relate and sympathize.

There were targets all over the bloody map but the landgrab took priority. And it took priority right where the fun was for the players who enjoy more of the AvA aspect and less (or none) of the bombing and landgrabbing aspect. So trying to make it a case of the furballers wanting it "all their way" comes off as a rather ignorant stance to me now.

Granted .... if you hit bases away from the fight you'll undoubtedly be labeled a "milkrunner" but I've come of the opinion that that's certainly the lesser of two evils and the verbal abuse some spit over channel one in regard to it deserves little or no concern.

It comes down to this:

Can the actions of one player be considered disruptive to the fun of the population in the arena as a whole? If the answer is yes, then there's really no amount of rationalization that can excuse the actions of that player.

Can the CT staff effectively neuter a player or (or players) dedicated to ruining everyone else's fun? Not by terrain or setup design from what I've seen to date. Perhaps not at all short of repeatedly booting him from the arena.

Should it have to come to that?

I would hope not.

Shane · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2003, 08:07:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Arlo
It comes down to this:

Can the actions of one player be considered disruptive to the fun of the population in the arena as a whole? If the answer is yes, then there's really no amount of rationalization that can excuse the actions of that player.

Can the CT staff effectively neuter a player or (or players) dedicated to ruining everyone else's fun? Not by terrain or setup design from what I've seen to date. Perhaps not at all short of repeatedly booting him from the arena.

sooooo, you're saying maybe killshooter should be on?

detch01 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2003, 08:55:55 PM »

Add wind into the setups to make the level of difficulty for bombers more "realistic". I'd love to see two wind layers - a light surface layer wind and a stronger wind layer starting at 10k or higher.

Cheers,

kesolei · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2003, 09:38:01 PM »

I don't think disabling bombers is the answer; because there are a lot of people who thoroughly enjoy a good bombing run.

There are a lot of twinks, too, who go to destroy FHs at the main fight. But, I have noticed that when they're about to do it, they announce it on channel.

Anyone else noticed that? The people who come in to just pork FHs are bases that are part of the main fight at the moment... are not CT regulars. And they say on country, "I'm gonna go take out the FH at __." That's more how it works in the MA, they announce it and 6 other people jump on the bandwagon.. they think its the same here. So maybe if you /see/ that on a channel you can pipe up and say, "Hit somewhere else, dweeb. Go back to the MA". They might listen if enough people say it.

If not, broadcast their name across channel one. Let the trash talkers work their magic.. and we'll be rid of el-dweebo. Hopefully.

Arlo · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2003, 11:36:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane
sooooo, you're saying maybe killshooter should be on?

Yeah, that too.

Heh ... but I'm tellin' yas ... I've never been more tempted.

Shane · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2003, 01:32:58 AM »

ks should be "off" is how it should have read, but... i know what you're saying. to assauge any potential pangs of conscious, angle for the "immersion" factor.

scJazz · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2003, 08:18:17 AM »

OK I've read that Bombers should be neutered, Bases made uncapturable, FH downtime should be shortened, maps should be made smaller, fields should be closer in this thread.

Gentlemen... why not just ask the CM team to stop working for hours and hours on maps and just have them put up the DA map? Disable all non-fighters and rename the Combat Theatre the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set.

Then I read comments about immersion. Some people in this thread wanted to increase the immersion factor.

Why does this all seem mutually exclusive? Oxymoronish in fact?

The CT is an attempt to simulate parts of the battles fought in WWII. As is the case with any simulation it is imperfect. However it gets reasonably close without being horribly tedious.

Bombers are not Ack Stars capable of dealing instant death to anyone who attempts to attack them. They are slow, unmanuverable target drones that fire back. Killing them is easy and should be painless for the Elite Fighter Pilot. Most notably if we have a LW planeset up and running. Refer to an earlier post on the simple rules for killing them.

As for hardening the FHs, making them unkillable etc... please! The whole point in a "war" is to make life irritating for the enemy. The whole point of a simulation is to mimic a real condition. Therefore bombers coming over to a field and rendering it unusable is a valid tactic. It is also deeply satisfying for the pilot who pulled it off. A lot of this thread contained comments to the effect that such persons are ruining their fun. Yet a whole lot of discussion went into ruining the bomber pilots fun without much thought. I come back to the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set comment.

As to the extraordinarily long flights back to the fight. The typical plane in AH can cover a 25 mile flight in 4.5 minutes. This 25 miles is the average additional distance that the removal of the furball base causes. Are you people actually trying to say that 4.5 minutes is an excessively long time that you can't deal with?

If the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set is really what the majority of the people flying in the CT want then let us truely put it to a vote. Let's get a list of regular CT pilots together. Have someone put up a voting page in their webspace. Crosscheck votes against the regular pilots. Finally see with empirical proof what the desire of this community is and perhaps save the CT staff hours and hours of time.

o0Stream140o · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2003, 11:33:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by scJazz
OK I've read that Bombers should be neutered, Bases made uncapturable, FH downtime should be shortened, maps should be made smaller, fields should be closer in this thread.

Gentlemen... why not just ask the CM team to stop working for hours and hours on maps and just have them put up the DA map? Disable all non-fighters and rename the Combat Theatre the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set.

Then I read comments about immersion. Some people in this thread wanted to increase the immersion factor.

Why does this all seem mutually exclusive? Oxymoronish in fact?

The CT is an attempt to simulate parts of the battles fought in WWII. As is the case with any simulation it is imperfect. However it gets reasonably close without being horribly tedious.

Bombers are not Ack Stars capable of dealing instant death to anyone who attempts to attack them. They are slow, unmanuverable target drones that fire back. Killing them is easy and should be painless for the Elite Fighter Pilot. Most notably if we have a LW planeset up and running. Refer to an earlier post on the simple rules for killing them.

As for hardening the FHs, making them unkillable etc... please! The whole point in a "war" is to make life irritating for the enemy. The whole point of a simulation is to mimic a real condition. Therefore bombers coming over to a field and rendering it unusable is a valid tactic. It is also deeply satisfying for the pilot who pulled it off. A lot of this thread contained comments to the effect that such persons are ruining their fun. Yet a whole lot of discussion went into ruining the bomber pilots fun without much thought. I come back to the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set comment.

As to the extraordinarily long flights back to the fight. The typical plane in AH can cover a 25 mile flight in 4.5 minutes. This 25 miles is the average additional distance that the removal of the furball base causes. Are you people actually trying to say that 4.5 minutes is an excessively long time that you can't deal with?

If the Elitist Furballing Arena with Rotating Plane Set is really what the majority of the people flying in the CT want then let us truely put it to a vote. Let's get a list of regular CT pilots together. Have someone put up a voting page in their webspace. Crosscheck votes against the regular pilots. Finally see with empirical proof what the desire of this community is and perhaps save the CT staff hours and hours of time.

Totally agree with you Jazz... ~~to you for actually bringing these points up..~~