Author Topic: Best Fighter of all Time (Read 2712 times)

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2003, 10:44:14 AM »

wilbuz funny avatar LOL

Shuckins · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2003, 10:53:53 AM »

Hellcat and Thunderbolt because of their impact on their respective theaters of operations. Their achievements did not come from missiles and advanced avionics against vastly inferior opponents.

Shuckins

AKIron · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2003, 01:27:40 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
I beg to differ.

Somehow I knew you would.

Like they say, the proof is in the pudding.

artik · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2003, 01:37:44 PM »

Absolutly consider with GScholz.

There are a lot of different parameters accept of kill/deth raito. Most important is expirience of the pilots.
For exemple in IAF kill/deth ratio of Mirage III vs MiG 21 was very big - something aroun 15 but when MiG-21 was tested by IAF pilots vs IAF pilots - they was very close planes with 1:1 kill deth raito. The same MiG 21 vs F-4E Phantom the kill deth raio in Yom Kipur (Syria, Egypt vs Israel) war was absolutly different then in Vietnam.....

The important is Speed, Acceleration, Climb Raito, Weapons and nowdays Avionic Systems, Radar... and comparison for same pilots

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2003, 01:43:37 PM »

There are lots of factors and most of them very difficult to quantify. At least so far as they apply to which is the "best". I guess we oughta define "best". Maybe we just need a good old fashion world war to prove which is the best.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2003, 01:44:40 PM »

If we are talking about comparison with contemporaries, this one deserves some consideration:

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An agile, highly maneuverable biplane, the Sopwith Camel accounted for more aerial victories than any other Allied aircraft during World War I. It is credited with destroying 1,294 enemy aircraft.

Furball · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2003, 01:49:06 PM »

Sopwith Camel (WWI -Credited with destroying 1,294 enemy aircraft which is more than any other wwi type)

and

Spitfire (Spitfire is only allied aircraft to be produced before, during and after the WWII)

Spitfire is also best looking fighter ever IMO

LOL holden, just noticed u said camel in post above mine, i was looking for details of the number of kills it had while you posted the message!

artik · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:02:34 PM »

You know try to figure out what is best plane from this planeset:

the best of nonperked AH planes:

P51D
190D-9
109G10
La7

What is best fighter plane?

Stop kidding yourself the good planes could be different but best - every one will have some weak sides and some strong sides as in this planeset I show:

P51D - very fast - slower then 190 at low alt but climbs better and turns much better then 190, fire power not the best, best views, good contolable plane

190D-9 fastest at atitudes below 10k - worster turner - worst climber, best roller

109g10 fastes above 10k best climber - worstes diver every one outdives it, hard to control for less expirienced pilots, very low roll ratio

La7 - best turn, climber, speed, accelertion - but below 8k after it very week

As you see every one could be bitten at some situations but... all quite close

So what is the best plane?

We can talk what are best planes but..... not the best one

artik · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:04:47 PM »

thanks - nice to know someone really understed what is really good air force

<------

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
Yes Artik, you have excellent pilots and excellent organisation and support. If you switched equipment with the Syrians you would still win any conflict decisively.

Furball · « **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:05:37 PM »

Spit 14, out turn all of those, outclimb em, and outrun em at most alts and in service before most of em!

artik · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:17:24 PM »

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Originally posted by Furball
Spit 14, out turn all of those, outclimb em, and outrun em at most alts and in service before most of em!

Depends - 109g10 withot gondolas and will 1 20mm gun?

after 5 min of Spit 14 wep over and 9 min of 109g10 continue.... At low alt La7 very close to Spit14 but has almost ulimited WEP when Spit 14 loose it after 5 min..... P51D in long dogfight just will force Spit to return without fuel..... Depends

Anyway we can talk this way about 262 (1944) too that not outturns/outruns but outclases them. In WW2 planeset changed very fast and some one could get better for some moment with some perfomances

The point all of them has their weak points and good too. Every one can be bitten someway

artik · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:42:31 PM »

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Seems to be a German aviation trait to start out with superior planes only to lose that superiority when it really counts

Not exectly.... LW planes were the best at the end of the war... but it is impossible to win World War (in our luck) when you do not have enoght resources..... like USSR and USA

Don't forget that USAF didn't find soulution to German Me262 even Meteor III was worster then Me262 and was not opertaional like 262,

German techology was (unfortunatly) best

First really operational Jet fighter Me262(that was also the reason thet at the end of the was prop planes was less developed because the best resources was given to Jets)

They used Me163 - and sucsefull - Allies had nothing close to it.

He162 - was build at the end of the war. But had no luck because of hadn't enoght resoures.

Ar234 - the only one operational Jet bomber... The only plane that could make recognize missions without being intersepted - allies had no such good planes

Jet technology was very sucessfully used in WW2 by Germans First. This technologies outclassed the Allies planes.

German just had no resoures to win..... and that is good

Godzilla · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:44:30 PM »

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Originally posted by Replicant
The JAS 39 Gripen is one hell of a nice aircraft! Got systems linking to the other a/c too so they know exactly what each others status is.

Eurofighter Typhoon will be in service next year and it will be interesting how it competes on the North Atlantic ACM ranges and Red/Green Flag exercises.

Of course it's often tactics that decide just how good an aircraft is. Take the Tornado F3 - it's a very poor dogfighter but during Red Flag a few years ago it beat F16s, F15s of the USAF. How? They used 'Link 16' so RAF AWACs could supply radar data directly to the Tornado so it didn't need to use its own radar. Therefore it sneaked up on all enemy aircraft undetected, got close enough before flicking radar on and getting missile lock - missile lock would be classed as a victory! There was one story of a Tornado taxi-ing out to the runway, it got the data from the AWAC and got missile lock whilst still on the ground because it knew exactly where to point its radar. Kinda cool!

USAF said the RAF cheated but they use Link 16 now! (US developed Link 16 but didn't utilize it like the RAF).

Thats awesome! So what if we said it was cheating, that's war and just awesome use of resources and creative thinking. It pays off for everyone in the end, as we can all learn from exercises like these.

Furball · « **Reply #28 on:** October 25, 2003, 02:52:50 PM »

I think the harrier needs a mention too

Able to operate from virtually anywhere, Proved its effectiveness with none lost to air to air combat in the falklands. Not best radar or systems but still pretty useful

designed by possibly the best aircraft designer ever - Sydney Camm.

Replicant · « **Reply #29 on:** October 25, 2003, 03:03:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
I think the harrier needs a mention too

Able to operate from virtually anywhere, Proved its effectiveness with none lost to air to air combat in the falklands. Not best radar or systems but still pretty useful

designed by possibly the best aircraft designer ever - Sydney Camm.

Ya, it was awesome during the Falklands War, the Sea Harrier FRS.1 surely proved itself (Sea Harrier had radar, Harrier GR.3 didn't).

But, having worked with them now, I'm sick to death of them!

Unfortunately the Harrier GR7 doesn't even have cannon, only AIM-9 sidewinders. In mock dogfights on the ACM ranges it still regularly beats F16s, Tornados, F18s, F15s, Mirages etc., but most of their victories are with the simulated 'cannon', which it can no longer carry! (they can't get cannon to work with system software and would cost too much to rectify).

The Sea Harrier can carry cannon still, along with ASRAAM and AMRAAM.