Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Scotch on February 16, 2009, 03:00:30 PM
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Anyone who flies 30mm birds often has probably run into this before. There's been numerous threads started about this issue, but very few films. You earn that sweet tater shot on a Spitfire only to have him shrug off the hit with minimal to no damage and fly off as if nothing happened.
In this case the lucky Spit14 takes a fuel leak after being hit by a 30mm round from within d200... :cry
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf
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Pretty nice moves on your part regardless of your crappy German ammo :lol
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DOH!! :rofl
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It just should not happen, a 30mm should knock the wing right off.
Why is it x2 20mm can do it, but a nice solid 30mm is like a kiss to your enemy's plane?
Was it not rare to make it home in ww2 in a fighter aircraft after being hit by a 30mm? (i have seen one picture of i think a hurr with its tail section split, dunno if that should count, no fuel.)
I would think a 30mm to a wing filled with fuel & ammo, also (a high probability of being under + or negative G load!) would snap most fighters wings clean off.
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It just should not happen, a 30mm should knock the wing right off.
Why is it x2 20mm can do it, but a nice solid 30mm is like a kiss to your enemy's plane?[/font]
Was it not rare to make it home in ww2 in a fighter aircraft after being hit by a 30mm? (i have seen one picture of i think a hurr with its tail section split, dunno if that should count, no fuel.)
I would think a 30mm to a wing filled with fuel & ammo, also (a high probability of being under + or negative G load!) would snap most fighters wings clean off.
the extra 10mm??........maybe....... :noid
NOT
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Perhaps NOT, but the point i was trying to get out.
I would think a 30mm to a wing filled with fuel (kaboom) & ammo (kaboom), also (a high probability of being under + or negative G load! Due to combat) would snap most fighters wings clean off.
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Couldn't see the video, but an example of some damage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI
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Yup, we've posted films and pics of this many times. It seems to be unique to Spitfires (of all planes, of course!). I wouldn't bet on it being fixed any time soon.
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I too have had a lot of 30mm just shrugged off...
I have also fired the 37mm from the IL2 into lanc's (just firing the 37mm's) and had the lanc's fly off like i was shooting spitwads at them.
Wether its lag or rubber bullits idk but i would say 25% or more of my 30mm shots seem to have no better hitting than a single .50cal.
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Even worse, having a 40mm shell fired from a PT boat into the engine of an IL2. Watching it fly around with just an oil leak is funny.
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Just for the sake of this thread :D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256729.msg3178668/topicseen.html#msg3178668
Film:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjzmzh3tzg5
30mm hits all over and it just flies away.
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image2.jpg)
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image4.jpg)
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Hit cattb's spit 8 the other night in the wing w/ a 30mm with the same fuel leak....must be a programmin thing w/ spits.....
cattb;s spit was blessed that night I have a film somewhere.....great flyin :)
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Just for the sake of this thread :D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256729.msg3178668/topicseen.html#msg3178668
Film:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjzmzh3tzg5
30mm hits all over and it just flies away.
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image2.jpg)
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image4.jpg)
My god, do I hate Lancasters. Hate them, hate them, hate them.
Unless I'm in a 110G :D
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This happened to me last night as well as previous encounters! I think the spit has a very tough spot just behind the pilot, have hit them there with seemingly no damage several times. Don't know what this is about, maybe uber rear plate armor!! Couldn't see your film, although a wing hit should be catastrophic for the spit, I would think!
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This happen very often. One of the main reason why I don't fly the K4 and the 152. The 30mm are so unreliable. Sometime you'd put 2-3 rounds into another fighter plane and nothing happen. I once got onto an afk guy, got to about 50mm and just fire 1 round at a time w/ my k4 and it took 3-4 rounds for him to go down. It was a 51 too. After that incident I gave up on the 30mm and stick w/ my regular 20mm, where I know 5 20mm into a fighter plane and it will go down.
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Hmm, interesting. The site seems to change the file association or something. You can view it by drag/dropping the saved file onto film viewer icon though.
In the case of buffs, making sure your rounds are concentrated on one area helps.
I've really only experienced this issue truly against Spitfires as far as I can recall.
But since a large majority of my fights are against at least one Spitfire...it's aggravating to say the least.
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truthfully, even .50 cals are underpowered, i have seen videos were one burst of .50 cals drops a 109
-BigBOBCH
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truthfully, even .50 cals are underpowered, i have seen videos were one burst of .50 cals drops a 109
-BigBOBCH
My 109 has been dropped by one burst of .50 cals. Plenty of times.
I've seen a guncam where a 109 was being pursued by a P51. After the first time I watched it, I decided to go back and count the tracer pings.
I stopped at 17.
The aircraft did not fail structurally in the guncam.
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truthfully, even .50 cals are underpowered, i have seen videos were one burst of .50 cals drops a 109
-BigBOBCH
You can drop a plane in a heartbeat with 50's. The thing to consider is the vast majority of .50 cal armed planes have them wing mounted, therefore hitting at or near convergence is an important factor.
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See Rule #6
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See Rule #6
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You have a thing for asses? :huh :rofl
AND!?
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You can drop a plane in a heartbeat with 50's. The thing to consider is the vast majority of .50 cal armed planes have them wing mounted, therefore hitting at or near convergence is an important factor.
convergence is NOT a factor in my 4x50 cal P-47 =)
im a bad shot i have them spread all over.
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no film or SS but tonight had two weird 30mm instances in Blue in my 109k4
hit a 190 wing dead on with the 30mm....nothing
pulled up behind a 51d, he didnt move, so must have been afk, i throw out a burst with all my guns, now at least 4 tater rounds had to have hit the tail section... nothin, i go wizzing by and hes still flying level with not a single scrap falling off
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I have never noticed a problem against spits where the tator doesnt just rip them in half but I know a P47 can take a tator and be flying but they dont only get a fuel leak, there engine is normally dead or rad and oil and fuel leak all at the same time
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Anyone who flies 30mm birds often has probably run into this before. There's been numerous threads started about this issue, but very few films. You earn that sweet tater shot on a Spitfire only to have him shrug off the hit with minimal to no damage and fly off as if nothing happened.
In this case the lucky Spit14 takes a fuel leak after being hit by a 30mm round from within d200... :cry
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf
I was running into this left and right, last night. Although, unlike your Swallowfire (TM) which suffered at least some damage, my 30's were consistently registering zero damage.
I suppose I should start filming. Just last night, I scored (visually) hits on two Spit 16's with no discernible damage (one of which was a clear wing strike), a single hit on the nose of a P51 with no damage and what must have been a dozen strikes against a B24 with *nothing* even falling off.
The 24 was particularly interesting because the hits were long range (long enough that the standard hit sprite was shown instead of the burst, 500+? - and no I wasnt firing the 13's - and they were all concentrated in the tail section). Nothing. Not a darn bit of damage. And I DID get an assist when we went down later so at least some of the hits actually registered server side.
Since this comes up fairly frequently - I wonder if HT might chime in with some theories as to why this is happening?
Not angry about it - but it would be nice to know, if it is a client-side issue, how one might go about fixing it.
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I was running into this left and right, last night. Although, unlike your Swallowfire (TM) which suffered at least some damage, my 30's were consistently registering zero damage.
I suppose I should start filming. Just last night, I scored (visually) hits on two Spit 16's with no discernible damage (one of which was a clear wing strike), a single hit on the nose of a P51 with no damage and what must have been a dozen strikes against a B24 with *nothing* even falling off.
The 24 was particularly interesting because the hits were long range (long enough that the standard hit sprite was shown instead of the burst, 500+? - and no I wasnt firing the 13's - and they were all concentrated in the tail section). Nothing. Not a darn bit of damage. And I DID get an assist when we went down later so at least some of the hits actually registered server side.
Since this comes up fairly frequently - I wonder if HT might chime in with some theories as to why this is happening?
Not angry about it - but it would be nice to know, if it is a client-side issue, how one might go about fixing it.
Did you get any assists from these hits? I have a film where I hit a SpitfireIX with a tater, he took no damage, but I later got an assist.
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Standard hit sprites and other reduced graphics will show when rendering get too busy.
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Did you get any assists from these hits? I have a film where I hit a SpitfireIX with a tater, he took no damage, but I later got an assist.
On the 24, yes. On the rest - no. Some nights, youre at 10K over their base - and some nights, they're at 10K over yours.
Last night was an example of the latter.
As such, the time elapsed between takeoff and 'forced' tower-out does not often allow for one to wait around for an assist. :D
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Since this comes up fairly frequently - I wonder if HT might chime in with some theories as to why this is happening?
Not angry about it - but it would be nice to know, if it is a client-side issue, how one might go about fixing it.
me too :rock
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Anyone who flies 30mm birds often has probably run into this before. There's been numerous threads started about this issue, but very few films. You earn that sweet tater shot on a Spitfire only to have him shrug off the hit with minimal to no damage and fly off as if nothing happened.
In this case the lucky Spit14 takes a fuel leak after being hit by a 30mm round from within d200... :cry
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf
I fly the 109k4 99% of the time I am in the game. I have noticed this same problem for quite some time. It seems like about a year now. Before that a single 30mm hit would totally destroy a plane and most time just blow it up if you had 2 or more hits.
But now days I get point blank 30mm hits and nothing. It appears to me that when a very high angle, high speed crossing snap shot happens that the damage is none. I see the hit and they just fly off. The more g's, the closer you are and faster the target passes by equals less damage.
I too have also flew right up the six of an afk plane and pumped 5 or more 30mm into them with nothing. At most a flap falls off.
The other thing I have noticed is when I land a solid 30mm hit it the plane flys off like nothing happened then I look back and 2 or 3 sec later it explodes. I am beggining to wonder if there arent sever side issues.
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I was out there last night in Blue, also.
Same issues. Hit a spit with a or two spud, and his flap fell off. Wow. :huh
Then he panicked, pulled back (a bit too much, I guess) and ripped his wings (both of them) clean off, flew around like a canoe for a few seconds till someone came along in a Pony and lit him up the rest of the way.
WOOT: Assist
Strange things are DEFINITELY afoot at the Circle K.
:noid
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Does anyone know just how the "hit vs damage" calculations are done? I imagine the surface of the plane is divided into areas that have some sort of "armor" value and an impact on that surface results in a calculation that in turn picks a damage level and displaces that damage. I have noticed that damage levels change dramatically in GV's after they are "Tracked". I put this down to some sort of " Angle of impact" feature in the calculation. Perhaps there is some sort of marginal problem with the calculation of that armor/gun size/angle.
Bottom line is I think most of us have no idea if this particular problem is just a tweak fix or a major recalculation. It would be nice if the game minders were able to tale advantage of all the dedicated players here and let us help work some of this stuff out. I for one would be willing to put in some time.
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Armor value on a spit? :rofl
I've seen their wings come off out-of-hand more often than I see them get damaged from ordinance. In fact, I get more kills on them that way than I do from shooting them (Insert comment about my gunnery here ____________)
It must be related to the amount of players in the arena. When it's very busy I (usually) see more buggy events.
I have, however, noticed what you mentioned about tracked GV's.
I don't know too much about the mechanics of damage modeling (except damage that I receive, of which I know a lot about. I know there is plenty of it, usually) :D
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All i know is in the 152 moot put a uber tater right into my head. I just went poof.
I have had it happen when flying the yak doesnt it have a 30mm tater in it. it took thee hits with the tater to get a fuel leak on the other guy.
On a side note i saw a pictrue of the 20mm they pulled of Glacier Girl and strapped to a snowmobile they then fired it at a 50 gal drum that thing split wide open. I can't imaging getting hit by even one or tow of those and not going down in a fireball.
Does the 38 in AH have the exploding round modeled in it?
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Most all "cannon" are exploding rounds... it deals with the definition of "cannon" and such (a search would get you the info of what you need
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When I first started reading this thread, I was wondering if HTC had actually tried to model the safe/arm behavior of the Mk 108 ammo, and that maybe some rounds simply weren't exploding at close range because of this.
Anyway, while trying to find info on how the 30mm rounds were fused, I found this:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163/weapons15.htm
Although it doesn't shed any light on why we're seeing inconsistent damage in-game, it's still very interesting. Specifically, read the section about 3/4 down the page that describes how the ZZ 1589 & AZ 1587 fuses work. Very cool. :aok
Totally off-topic, but why don't you add this to your avatar Agent360? :D :rofl
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6613/hugoweavingtu9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Bwhahaha ^
Hugo Weaving is awesome.
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When I first started reading this thread, I was wondering if HTC had actually tried to model the safe/arm behavior of the Mk 108 ammo, and that maybe some rounds simply weren't exploding at close range because of this.
This isn't modeled. I remember DAing skyrock a while back in 109Ks and if I remember right we both KS each other at least once because we got tater hits on the other guy from very short range.
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Yup I have I have been killed by my own taters many times. Same thing that happens in an Osti if you accidentally shoot a tree or hangar at point blank range.
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[quote author=Cthulhu link=topic=258664.msg3209355#msg3209355 date=1234994432
Totally off-topic, but why don't you add this to your avatar Agent360? :D :rofl
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6613/hugoweavingtu9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
[/quote]
LOL who the heck is that?
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LOL who the heck is that?
Agent Smith if I am not mistaken.
(just a guess, but it looks like the same actor (actress <G>)
(edit: Hugo Weaving is the actor. And I JUST NOW figured out he played Elrond in the ROTK movies.)
(edit:edit: AND he was the V character in V foor Vendetta. didn't know that either)
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I took a HO shot from a 262 in my pony today...all it did was kill my engine and I was able to glide back to base :lol
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Totally off-topic, but why don't you add this to your avatar Agent360? :D :rofl
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6613/hugoweavingtu9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
LOL who the heck is that?
:rofl Nearly spit my drink on the monitor.
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Yep, 30mm sux. :D www.savanne.org/ah/190testmovie.wmv (right click and save as)
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This post won't be constructive to the points everyone has previously made in any way, but if you want a Tater....Go 37mm :) 9T all the way! Not much of anything in the sky (save the occasional Lanc or 24) that will shrug those off.
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Agent Smith if I am not mistaken.
(just a guess, but it looks like the same actor (actress <G>)
(edit: Hugo Weaving is the actor. And I JUST NOW figured out he played Elrond in the ROTK movies.)
(edit:edit: AND he was the V character in V foor Vendetta. didn't know that either)
Yep, he's all those characters. That particular picture is from
"The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" (1994)
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2031/priscillapingpongreactiyr5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
which also featured Terence Stamp (on the right), another actor better known for playing Real Bad-Ass characters.
(I believe that's SHawk on the left, before his mullet-augmentation surgery of course. :D)
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you killed this thread
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on the contrary, i think the three pretty women in the pic breathed new life into this thread! :O :O :O
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This post won't be constructive to the points everyone has previously made in any way, but if you want a Tater....Go 37mm :) 9T all the way! Not much of anything in the sky (save the occasional Lanc or 24) that will shrug those off.
I got lucky once in the midwar and found a set of Lancs while flying the P-39. I thought, "Oh boy! Spud-launcher time!" :t
The results were disappointing. I didn't find the 37mm to have any great advantage over the 30mm Mk 108, and the RoF left me respecting the 108 a little more. I know the 9T's cannon has better ballistics, and I enjoy it against fighters, but the 4-engine bombers can soak up a lot of 37mm before they show any damage.
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I got lucky once in the midwar and found a set of Lancs while flying the P-39. I thought, "Oh boy! Spud-launcher time!" :t
The results were disappointing. I didn't find the 37mm to have any great advantage over the 30mm Mk 108, and the RoF left me respecting the 108 a little more. I know the 9T's cannon has better ballistics, and I enjoy it against fighters, but the 4-engine bombers can soak up a lot of 37mm before they show any damage.
I know the Mk 108 round carries a pretty large explosive charge (85 grams of HA41), but if I'm reading Tony William's data correctly, the NS-37 HE rd should have over twice the explosive charge. Weird indeed.
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I know the Mk 108 round carries a pretty large explosive charge (85 grams of HA41), but if I'm reading Tony William's data correctly, the NS-37 HE rd should have over twice the explosive charge. Weird indeed.
I have film, should I post it?
Edit:
Here's the film. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kd2donjnyjg (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kd2donjnyjg) My aim sucks at first, but it was disappointing to only see the flaps come off after the hits on the left wing. Apparently the explosive shells can only damage one thing at a time, depending on where they hit.
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This post won't be constructive to the points everyone has previously made in any way, but if you want a Tater....Go 37mm :) 9T all the way! Not much of anything in the sky (save the occasional Lanc or 24) that will shrug those off.
I love the 9T. But the bug ongoing with taters applies to it as well. Hit an AFK Stuka with 7 solid 37mm hits to wing....nothing. I mean NOTHING. No flaps, ailerons..nothing. Fired each round singly, into wing from at or under D200.
37mm HE round should kill with one round.... at least it USED to.
Switched to other wing, used the 7.62mm only....that wing came apart after maybe 15-20 hits. That does not make any sense whatsoever.
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Mosquito PR.Mk XVI hit my two or three 30mm rounds from an Me262:
(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/karnak/MossMk108Dam.jpg)
And note that the wooden structure and skin of the Mosquito was resistant to explosive damage compared to aluminum aircraft.
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And note that the wooden structure and skin of the Mosquito was resistant to explosive damage compared to aluminum aircraft.
I recall reading in the past that the Mossie's wooden skin also leaked fuel less when punctured. This was because the plywood skin punctured "cleanly", without the jagged tears produced by cannon rounds in aluminum skin. This apparently minimized the "venturi" effect, which served to suck fuel out thru the puncture. Another benefit was the reduced affect on aerodynamics produced by the clean holes, as opposed to the drag and disruptive flow caused by jagged, torn skin.
Btw, don't stare at the tail too much and miss the damage to the flap... Ouch! :uhoh
Is it me, or does the left elevator look down, and the right elevator up?
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Yes, I am sure that didn't do good things for the hydrolics.
After being hit the pilot dove the Mosquito past the safe diving speed listed in the handbook in order to escape and then spend about 30 minutes dodging the Me262's attack passes before the Me262 gave up.
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Yes, I am sure that didn't do good things for the hydrolics.
After being hit the pilot dove the Mosquito past the safe diving speed listed in the handbook in order to escape and then spend about 30 minutes dodging the Me262's attack passes before the Me262 gave up.
That's a Hell of a long time to avoid passes. Kinda like paying dodgeball with bazooka's. Bet the 262 ran outa ammo.
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Is it me, or does the left elevator look down, and the right elevator up?
What right elevator?
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What right elevator?
Look closely. That light colored "line" could be the trailing edge of the right elevator. (it's not the rear of the right horizontal stabilizer; it's too high) My guess is the left elevator torque tube was severed and the left elevator is simply hanging freely.
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Another tater to a spits wing with no damge, the 3 to the fuselage seemed to work though.
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/DudTater.ahf (http://dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/DudTater.ahf)
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Another two.
1 behind the cockpit (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/film47taterdud_0251.ahf), and 1 in nose + 1 right behind the cockpit (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/film59_Spit16threetater_0000.ahf) if not into the side of cockpit at the level of the pilot's feet (cant tell if it's a 20 or 30).
If it doesn't turn out to be a bug, at least we can figure out what we're supposed to expect.
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Hey Tec & m00t, I've got a question. Are you guys firing only the 30mm, so there's no doubt that the hits are tater hits? Just curious.
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The 30mm has a very distinctive hit sprite. Over a couple hundred yards you cant tell the difference but in the film viewer if you zoom in on the other aircraft you can tell what's hitting.
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I used to fire only the 30mm on fighters, but nowadays I fire both anytime they're both likely to hit. It's not worth the risk of being shot down because you gambled everything on a tater hit that turns out to be a dud.
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Didn't get the film but it happened again with a Spit8 tonight. Within 100yards, 30mm sprite on the top of his right wing. Fuel leak.
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http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/dudtaters.ahf
ki takes 2 taters from close range, only gets oil leak. About the 1:20 mark. His engine does die shortly after though.
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I'm encouraging more people to post their .ahf films of this happening so that if HTC does look at this they have the most information possible.
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30mm hit right on top of the back of a P51D's canopy. (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film10_DudTater_1914.ahf)
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Will make some films tonight <G>
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Even worse, having a 40mm shell fired from a PT boat into the engine of an IL2. Watching it fly around with just an oil leak is funny.
shot from LVT-4 to the nose of IL-2 and still flying
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film?
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It is a game. It is not supposed to "simulate" real aircraft. It is a Game. They are Just Game pieces not Aircraft. It is a Game. It is a Game. I got my head right Hitech, I got my Head right. :rolleyes:
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couldnt see the film, but i have run into spits and 109f's that take multiple 30mm shots. ofcourse, was when i played, but i remember a few times in a 262 id put 2 or 3 into a 109f's tail and no damage, and 1 or 2 into a spitfire and still, minimal damage. havnt played in a few months, but i do remember those.
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It is a game. It is not supposed to "simulate" real aircraft. It is a Game. They are Just Game pieces not Aircraft. It is a Game. It is a Game. I got my head right Hitech, I got my Head right. :rolleyes:
We're just trying to figure out the rules of the game, and why they seem to change sometimes when we play it.
There will be an update before long, I'm hoping they either address this as an issue, or at least tell us what's going on and why it's nothing to worry about.
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30mm MK108 round should blow the wing off of a Spitfire if it hits anywhere other than the extreme tip. I can't imagine that being a survivable hit.
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I was cruising around in my 262 and took a direct hit in the cockpit from a 109K4's 30mm and flew along.
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I too have had some lucky survival from 30M few times. In no particular order (all with me in pony, go figure )
I can never remember what cannon size in the 262.
262:
hit my right wing; took out all 3 guns but wing stayed intact.
109K4
hit my engine, just took oil hit; one hit wing, took out guns but wing intact, one on tail, just lost rudder.
YakT - hit rad. but didn't suffer anymore. He sent me film and he did in fact hit me with that big O 37MM
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For the record this bug also effects the 37mm (so not only girly tater) doesn't happen often but in particular it occurs if you land a snap shot at around 90deg side on to the dweeb16s wing it only suffers a fuel leak...
Spit is only plane out of the entire set I've encountered any bug with hits, even the Lanc goes down to a single 37mm at the right place. :D
I've yet to capture on film though as I hardly ever have film recording. I'll post the film if I ever save it.
<S>...-Gixer
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For the record this bug also effects the 37mm (so not only girly tater)
Seeing how the Yak-9T's 37mm is easier to shoot than the Mk108 30mm...I don't get the above quote ;)
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Seeing how the Yak-9T's 37mm is easier to shoot than the Mk108 30mm...I don't get the above quote ;)
:lol
Considering rate of fire of 37mm and even a Goon point blank can fly between the rounds without a scratch. 37mm is completely different, you have to time a single round for a kill, 30mm you can just give an uneducated quick burst. Yes 37mm has some range to it but that wastes rounds when you only start off with 32, the real advantage/skill is with well timed snap shots under 200. Not trying to hit straight and level con at 1k.
1 shot 1 kill. Anything more lacks skill and class.. :D
<S>...-Gixer
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Next!
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Next!
My thought, exactly. :aok
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http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/film22_Gixer_0034.ahf
Thanks for not derailing the thread any further :)
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Was just having a laugh, not serious and hardly derailing a thread which is already months old.
<S>...-Gixer
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Linked to this thread in the bugs forum. Post up more films if you have them!
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Metephorically speaking, anyting bigger than 7 inches, you cannot feel.
That's enough.
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Metephorically speaking, anyting bigger than 7 inches, you cannot feel.
That's enough.
I get e-mails all the time that can help with your problem.
:rofl
wrongway
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Of course, I'm not into that kind of thing. There are some people however, that have experienced (women)that problem.
:D
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Sadly, I don't have the flim but just last night I got into a low fight with two jugs, shot them both with good bursts of taters, saw the hit sprites, but neither went down. They ended up killing me. Now I know that the jug is tough, really tough in fact, but really.... How many 30mm does it take to kill one. I know I saw at least three sprites on each of them. Shoulda kept the film I guess. Sometimes I accidentally delete it immediately after the flight out of anger.
The bottom line I think though is that I need to get better, at gunnery and flying. I shouldn't have allowed them to get me after I shot them I guess, and I should have put enough into them to finish them off too. I'll keep working at it.
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tater into the belly of a spit-8 http://dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/taterfuelleak2.ahf
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Yep, 30mm sux. :D www.savanne.org/ah/190testmovie.wmv (right click and save as)
Holy smokes...that B-17 took multiple 20mm/30mm hits and kept on going. I wonder if his client even registered the damage. Yours seemed to; there was lots of metal falling off, but nothing significant seemed to happen to the bomber being hit...
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yah, the damage models seem to be a little off. . .
I consider 20mm to be the best gun type because the bullets seem to drop less and the damage seems to stick. This post seems to confirm that. . .
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Das Muppets links don't work with Firefox. :furious
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I use firefox, but right click -> save as always works
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I don't want to save the films, just open and view once.
It works fine with IE.
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And I have no troubles
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And I have no troubles
/hug.
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And I have boobies
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Tater Dud in Me262. Wasn't a very 'clean' hit but a hit is a hit with 30mm.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf)
It'd be nice if HiTech could respond in this thread and let us know if a) This is normal that 30mm's are not intended to insure death or b) There is a minor bug with damage model or c) something else.
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I thought I had read somewhere that the Germans would alternate ammo types in their cannon belts. Something like 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 of the 30mm rounds were actually the devastating HE Mine rounds. The others were AP, regular HE, tracer or other types. It was said that the pilots would actually keep count of the rounds they fired so they would know what type of round was the next to fire, and cycle to the round they really needed if necessary.
AH did not model the various different round types, but compromised by taking the average destructive capabilities of the types of shells used, so we end up in AH with a HE round that is a little less destructive than a HE Mine round. This might explain why the damage is less than anticipated. Granted, several 30mm hits of even very low explosive capabilities should do quite a bit of damage to an airplane, but maybe this can help frame the discussion a little.
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Tracer, that would be for the MG 151. I don't know anything about Mk 108 ammunition other than its famed lethality.
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It would just be nice for some clarification from HiTech. We have provided a lot of film in this thread showing fighters shrugging off Mk108 30mm tater rounds.
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:noid :noid
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for awhile... I would like to see an awnser as well
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Even if the answer is "We aren't sure but are looking into it" would be perfectly adequate imo.
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Tater Dud in Me262. Wasn't a very 'clean' hit but a hit is a hit with 30mm.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf)
It'd be nice if HiTech could respond in this thread and let us know if a) This is normal that 30mm's are not intended to insure death or b) There is a minor bug with damage model or c) something else.
That round hit right at the wing root, Id think that would take it clear off even with 1 20mm, I dont got film of it but I had a Yak eat a tator and got no damage, I thought lag had something to do with it
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Even if the answer is "We aren't sure but are looking into it" would be perfectly adequate imo.
Grizz: "Eh hitech? Wink, wink...nudge, nudge..." :pray
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:noid :noid
I've been keeping an eye on this thread for awhile... I would like to see an awnser as well
Take the number of 30mm's that kill outright, one shot, or 20mm for that matter, and divide by the number that do not. Then, don't worry about it so much.
wrongway
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Take the number of 30mm's that kill outright, one shot, or 20mm for that matter, and divide by the number that do not. Then, don't worry about it so much.
wrongway
It'd be nice for the rules we play within to be defined. I don't think anybody is worried... :huh
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It'd be nice for the rules we play within to be defined. I don't think anybody is worried... :huh
Rules?
How about anomalies instead. I would speculate that it is not programmed to happen that what looks like a hit isn't a hit.
It's another mystery of the internet vs. "It's Hitech's fault".
wrongway
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I imagine that during the war there were a certain percantage of 30mm rounds which failed to explode on impact. I figure that this is representative of the duds.
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Tater Dud in Me262. Wasn't a very 'clean' hit but a hit is a hit with 30mm.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/Tater Dud Me262.ahf)
It'd be nice if HiTech could respond in this thread and let us know if a) This is normal that 30mm's are not intended to insure death or b) There is a minor bug with damage model or c) something else.
Hi Grizz,
Watched your film a few times and I think the problem is that it was a 20mm hit. Though I could be mistaken... the explosion seemed more like a 20mm that a 30mm hit.
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Yeah it's possible that it's an internet thing. An explanation is the best thing anyone who has posted films in this thread could ask for.
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Hi Grizz,
Watched your film a few times and I think the problem is that it was a 20mm hit. Though I could be mistaken... the explosion seemed more like a 20mm that a 30mm hit.
The Me 262 doesn't carry 20mm cannons...
I imagine that during the war there were a certain percantage of 30mm rounds which failed to explode on impact. I figure that this is representative of the duds.
We don't have reliability modeled on any system in the whole game. I don't see why 30mm cannon rounds would be any different...
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You're right... why I thought the loadout was like a TA-152 is due to my own ignorance. Okay, Grizz. That is definitely odd that your tater round was rendered completely useless. (I still say the explosion resembles a 20mm...)
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The Me 262 doesn't carry 20mm cannons...We don't have reliability modeled on any system in the whole game. I don't see why 30mm cannon rounds would be any different...
It's not modeled. It just happens. It's the internet's fault.
wrongway
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Rules?
How about anomalies instead. I would speculate that it is not programmed to happen that what looks like a hit isn't a hit.
It's another mystery of the internet vs. "It's Hitech's fault".
wrongway
Is anyone applying blame or are we trying to figure out "the mystery"?
Consider that HTC has a bugs forum (this thread is linked to in there) encouraging players to come forward with evidence of problems. They take that evidence, examine, and determine if it's a problem that can be fixed. Read over the last few update logs. Reporting bugs helps the progression of the game. Ignoring it and pretending everything is fine, is stagnation and allows no growth. If this were an arcade game fine, but the powers that be have invested large amounts of time and money into making their product as accurate as possible while still balancing game play. This does not seem to be an issue of balancing though.
Consider the statements made by HTC on the effects of lag vs damage and how they contradict the "anomalies" in the films.
Consider we're seeking a solid answer and not speculation.
I really don't understand why examining what a large population of players consider a bug is bad.
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We don't have reliability modeled on any system in the whole game. I don't see why 30mm cannon rounds would be any different...
Well, I'm sure the Germans didn't "model" misfires and duds into their ammo either. Things like that just kind of happened. I also don't think this problem is limited to just 30mm ammo. How many times have you lit somebody up with 20mm rounds and they didn't go dow? Or maybe a good burst of 50 cal? It just seems more obvious with the 30mm because you are so used to single hits being lethal.
I just shrug it off when it happens, not anything to get worked up about.
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All speculation till HTC says otherwise.
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My 30mm rounds never have this problem... :D
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He's a kid I believe AWwrgwy........ Maybe even almost at a highschool reading level.
It's not modeled. It just happens. It's the internet's fault.
wrongway
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I've also had tater dud hits that had the 20mm sprite instead of the larger 30mm sprite.
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Hey I think this film shows the same tator problem, the spit eats the tator in its fuel then a mg round sets it ablaze
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?qntddx4mtmm
just watched it myself at 40 seconds i start firing then at 41 the tator hits and plane goes ablaze, after getting hit with a tator a plane shouldnt be able to possibly get a "dieing wish" shot on you :salute
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The 20mm hit sprite shows up when graphics tune down for performance, as far as I can tell. You need to be in range too.
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Skuzzy said Vertical Sync must be on to help prevent rubber bullet syndrome.
He also said the custom sounds can cause you to have rubber bullets.
Skuzzy
I cringe everytime I see someone using a custom sound pack with an AC97 or onboard sound device.
Could be part of the problem
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Skuzzy said Vertical Sync must be on to help prevent rubber bullet syndrome.
He also said the custom sounds can cause you to have rubber bullets.
Skuzzy
Could be part of the problem
I don't use any custom sounds except my Check6.wav file.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/La7 3 Taters.ahf
(http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Grizz/La7 3 Taters.ahf)
Film of an La7 absorbing 3 taters from Me262 and then flies off with an oil leak.
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/tater.jpg)
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How many of these films and pics do we post before the problem is acknowledged? Like you said earlier, "we'll look at it," is all we're asking for.
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Griz, your quote of me looks like I'm blaming Skuzzy :lol
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I just watched the film by the OP and it seems at 24 secs he fired a burst of MG with no cannon rounds fired and the spit takes a fuel leak. This is according to the ammo counter(468 mg and 32 can). But if you view external the hub cannon does fire at 24 seconds but does not register on the ammo counter(448 mg and 32 can). He fires again at 28 seconds and this time the ammo counter does register 11 cannon rounds fired. Wierd!
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http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/tater_.ahf
Hit on the wingroot of a spit8, fuel leak.
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I just watched the film by the OP and it seems at 24 secs he fired a burst of MG with no cannon rounds fired and the spit takes a fuel leak. This is according to the ammo counter(468 mg and 32 can). But if you view external the hub cannon does fire at 24 seconds but does not register on the ammo counter(448 mg and 32 can). He fires again at 28 seconds and this time the ammo counter does register 11 cannon rounds fired. Wierd!
That's an interesting observation. It could be something to do with cropping the film down to size. I've noticed fast forwarding and reversing films in the film viewer can cause little anomalies that might have been recorded into the smaller film file. Or if it's in everyone else's films, it could be something related to the problem. Visually it shows the 30mm firing, and the 30mm hit sprite hitting the enemy. And I definitely know I fired both guns at that moment.
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It's in Sunsfans film too.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/tater_.ahf
He makes a tater shot. Visually you see the sprite, but the ammo counter still has 65 taters. His film was edited too though. But this is worth checking the other k4 films for.
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I would never trust the film viewer to keep track of ammunition accurately on the counters.
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It helps keep film size down. I reckon (noticed it a long time ago) it's the same down-sampling as control inputs, etc.
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I have never had it happen with 30mm but I have noticed especially in the 109 series that it takes a lot of 20mm rounds to take an aircraft out.
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the extra 10mm??........maybe.......
:rofl
Some fighters were hit by 88mm Flak shells and they flew home.
chalk it down to virtual luck.
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I have never had it happen with 30mm but I have noticed especially in the 109 series that it takes a lot of 20mm rounds to take an aircraft out.
Are you flying a version with 7mm cowl guns? The firepower upgrade from the G-2 to the G-6 and G-14 is very noticeable.
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Are you flying a version with 7mm cowl guns? The firepower upgrade from the G-2 to the G-6 and G-14 is very noticeable.
:uhoh F4, But I fly the K4 98% of the time.
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Give the G-14 (20mm) or even the G-6 a try. You'll be surprised at their lethality compared to the F4/G2.
Let's return to the discussion of the nerfed Mk 108. :)
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Some fighters were hit by 88mm Flak shells and they flew home.
Wow... :O Any references or links?
AFAIK, 88:s could kill a tank with a direct hit. I am kinda surprised how any plane could survive an 88 shell hit.
Or did you mean they were hit by its splinters or by a dud?
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I dont know exactly where I saw it but there was some real life film of a P47 with a twisted and torn hole in it's tail section the size of a melon. The pilot who just landed it is standing by it holding his hand out, trying to keep it steady but it is shaking and he has a weak smile. I thought he was hit by 88mm and survived, perhaps I was wrong. Maybe it was a dud that passed right through the tail? I cannot find this footage right now. I bet widewing or guppy or someone knows which picture/film im talking about.
:confused:
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cc... at least some B-17:s sometimes rtbd with incredibly heavy damage, but dont know if any of those were direct 88 hits either.
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Ok, I surrender the 88m point, happily! As to 30mm, I think it is a problem with all ammunition, that sometimes a round will flash a hit sprite and yet do no damage. We only notice it with 30mm as we expect a one-hit-kill every time. Is it not fair just to call this virtual 'luck'? I would say if every single 30mm hit meant a kill then it would be less realistic.
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Ok, I surrender the 88m point, happily! As to 30mm, I think it is a problem with all ammunition, that sometimes a round will flash a hit sprite and yet do no damage. We only notice it with 30mm as we expect a one-hit-kill every time. Is it not fair just to call this virtual 'luck'? I would say if every single 30mm hit meant a kill then it would be less realistic.
How is 'virtual luck' defined in programming code? It's not generally intended to be a whine if a 30mm doesn't cause a kill but more so an inquiry as to why the rules are changing. How can a 30mm to the wing root take the wing off 90% of the time but cause only a fuel leak the other 10% of the time?
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who said anything about code? Its an unfortunate occurance that online games are not 100% reliable in showing both people the same thing. That's the virtual luck element. In the UK at ping 160 it effects us more than someone in Texas. I think that, anyhow.. again..i'm usual wrong.
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who said anything about code? Its an unfortunate occurance that online games are not 100% reliable in showing both people the same thing. That's the virtual luck element. In the UK at ping 160 it effects us more than someone in Texas. I think that, anyhow.. again..i'm usual wrong.
This is what doesn't make sense. How can 'ping' affect a registered tater hit?
I can see a tater hit doing no damage and not registering due to lag and calling it an online mystery but how can a tater register and only cause such minimal damage. THAT is the real mystery.
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Richard Candelaria's P-51 took a hit from a 262, only suffering a big hole in his wing?
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Richard Candelaria's P-51 took a hit from a 262, only suffering a big hole in his wing?
I suppose it's possible that tater damage is programmed to deal fatal damage X % of the time and only a certain degree of damage a smaller % of the time to deal with RL luck. It's all speculation though until HiTech comments on this.
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This is what doesn't make sense. How can 'ping' affect a registered tater hit?
I can see a tater hit doing no damage and not registering due to lag and calling it an online mystery but how can a tater register and only cause such minimal damage. THAT is the real mystery.
I dont know anything about it to comment beyond my speculation. I do however expect there are few/no dud tater hits in offline missions.
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was it or not, it had the color of a tator..........
http://www.mediafire.com/?zw2zcnklwmz
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Not a tater.
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With the beta and everything else going on, wondering about this
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Richard Candelaria's P-51 took a hit from a 262, only suffering a big hole in his wing?
Richard Caldelaria can owe his life to some slave worker who sabotaged the fuse of the 30mm round most likely..
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I have a video of me shooting am FM2at point blankwith a 30mm, it hits him in the tail and nothing is done.
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I have a video of me shooting am FM2at point blankwith a 30mm, it hits him in the tail and nothing is done.
Well, that was an FM2, quite possibly the toughest fighter in the game.
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Post it anyways strokes.
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my god you guys dont give up.
Has anyone got film evidence of a dud tater in Offline Mode??
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Sorry dont have time to edit the film. Its short anyway.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3b12e4c540539adcb64026cfc0611236e04e75f6e8ebb871
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my god you guys dont give up.
Has anyone got film evidence of a dud tater in Offline Mode??
Though it would be interesting to see, it's a moot point as it "just being a lag issue" would contradict previous statements they've made about damage application vs lag. But any sort of answer or acknowledgment one way or another would do.
Now go make up some more stories and practice your voodoo dark magic.
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voodoo perhaps...but what stories have i made up? (if you want publicity for the thread, lets do it, im curious what you mean)
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here is 1 dismiss it please.........
http://www.mediafire.com/?5on5iw31wyn
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here is 1 dismiss it please.........
http://www.mediafire.com/?5on5iw31wyn
yep hit wing tip plus acouple mg rounds hit probably should have done some time of damage
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I also remember watching one of m00t's films where he pops a 30mm into an FM2 and it has no effect.
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Anyone who flies 30mm birds often has probably run into this before. There's been numerous threads started about this issue, but very few films. You earn that sweet tater shot on a Spitfire only to have him shrug off the hit with minimal to no damage and fly off as if nothing happened.
In this case the lucky Spit14 takes a fuel leak after being hit by a 30mm round from within d200... :cry
http://dasmuppets.com/public/Scotch/SPITTATER.ahf
here is a film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI
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Alot of the time the 30mm issue is the toughness of the target, the toughness of the area hit, and the .001 damage left needed to shred the part.
Most times if the 30mm is being fired WITH the mnachineguns the areas hit almost always fasll off, otherwise a second 30mm is needed. Altho scratching my head it makes me wonder why some bombers soak up 30mm like nothing happend at all.
HTC, add another 2 points of damage to the 30mm so people can have theyre one hit wonder weapon. :salute
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Amazing how such discussions aren't unique to any one flight sim...if you're talking 20, 30 or 37mm cannons, they should be HE rounds...especially in the German planes (pretty sure some Russian too). Keep in mind that a WWII era sub 40mm aircraft cannon round did not have the same explosive impact that modern HE ammo has...still, one would think that if they can model 40 or 88mm ack properly in the game, it would be a simple matter to program that same modeling into the aircraft cannons to smaller scales.
Tracer rounds into fuel tanks and ammo stores should create a nice light show as well...just not on a frequent basis.
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Just for the record: I don't have any problems with my 30mm's. Certainly not more than 1 in 100 fighters I hit with a tater won't go down immediately.
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my god you guys dont give up.
Has anyone got film evidence of a dud tater in Offline Mode??
The issue is that there IS damage inflicted with these 'tater duds' whether that be a fuel leak, oil leak, dead engine, etc. If it was a lag issue, no damage would occur and you'd just see the tater hit sprite on your end.
Do you find there to be a problem with the intent behind this thread? I don't think it's a whine by any means. Just a means to try to find a solution to a potential problem or to get an answer that explains it. Neither has occurred yet.
Just for the record: I don't have any problems with my 30mm's. Certainly not more than 1 in 100 fighters I hit with a tater won't go down immediately.
It definitely occurs more than 1% of the time, in K4s especially where it is more noticeable. I'd say it's more of a 10-20% occurance rate. If you are flying the 262 or 152, you might hit a guy 4 times with taters and one might be a dud and the other three nail him so you don't notice. Maybe that's why you don't have an issue. Fly the K4 though and you will see this more often with the one engine cannon.
Edit: 20% might be too high but it's definitely >5% and possibly even slightly higher than 10%. I'll say 5-12% occurrence rate.
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It definitely occurs more than 1% of the time, in K4s especially where it is more noticeable. I'd say it's more of a 10-20% occurance rate. If you are flying the 262 or 152, you might hit a guy 4 times with taters and one might be a dud and the other three nail him so you don't notice. Maybe that's why you don't have an issue. Fly the K4 though and you will see this more often with the one engine cannon.
The K-4 is my main tater deliverer vs fighters, and I'm very conservative on the trigger.
and when I see a hit, it's over. I'd say not even once per tour an enemy fighter survives the first hit. The last one I can remember was a Spit 16 that had an oil hit only... and that was several tours ago.
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Just to cement your data points.. How many kills do you get on any given tour? Can you safely say you land hits all over the targets, not just in specific spots?
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Just to cement your data points.. How many kills do you get on any given tour? Can you safely say you land hits all over the targets, not just in specific spots?
I'm not good enough to consistently hit only specific spots. With the awkward ballistics of the 108 I'm just glad to hti the plane ;)
When I attack a fighter in a K4 I have almost always "mode 2" engaged - that means I fire only the MK 108. I try to fire single shots or very short bursts, the latter one mostly when doing off-angle snap shots.
The number of kills on any given tour vary.. from 30-300 in k4. Sailman is my handle since tour 100, since then I have
385 kills in G-14 (almost all with MK 108)
842 kills in k-4
I'd guess I didn't have more than 2 or 3 "whoa, he should be dead" experiences vs fighters during that time.
Ta152 doesn't matter in this context, as I'm using my weapons in a different way there.
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Just for the sake of this thread :D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,256729.msg3178668/topicseen.html#msg3178668
Film:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tjzmzh3tzg5
30mm hits all over and it just flies away.
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image2.jpg)
(http://www.brendanpoga.com/machinima/Image4.jpg)
Buffs are another story entirely
Lotta evidence of them taking massive damage only to be able to RTB.
(I wish the damage to the buffs in game was visually better addressed.)
These planes made it home
20 mil damage
Enemy 20mm cannon hits ignited electrical equipment in the nose of "Belle of Maryland", including the pilot's instrument panel. Numerous fire extinguishers barely kept the fire under control until landing (with a burning engine as well). As soon as the B-17 came to a stop the nose erupted in flames, and while the crew escaped safely, the bomber was ruined beyond repair.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/nose/nosefire.gif)
Tinkertoy, 'jinx ship' of the 381st BG, after the October 8, 1943 mission to Bremen, Germany. Men point to holes made by 20mm cannon shells which decapitated the pilot.
SOURCE: The Mighty Eighth by Roger A. Freeman
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/nose/nose9.jpg)
A German 20mm shell peeled the metal covering off this bomber like skin off an onion. Note the small caliber bullet holes in the fuselage star.
SOURCE: Target: Germany by Life Magazine
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/side2.gif)
This ball turret shows the effect of a 20mm shell which exploded against the faceplate. The gunner was wounded, but survived the jarring blast.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/balltur.jpg)
According to a visitor (Patrick), this is a B17G (build by Lockeed Vega in California) 42-39988 QJ-A from the 96th BG, called "The Iron Ass", flown by 1st Lt Paul Herring. She was damaged by FW190 during a mission to Brunswick on the 21st February 1944. The crew member near the hole is Charles (Chuck) Haywood, the tail gunner of this plane. He was shot down four days later, flying with another crew. The Herring crew was shot down eight days later, flying B17F 42-30412 QJ-B "Mischief Maker"; they were on their 15th mission.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/rudder3.gif)
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/tail3.jpg)
What happened here? Duel For the Sky (by Herbert Molloy Mason, Jr.) states that an Me-262's heavy cannon tore open the side of this Fortress, but according to the Mighty Eighth War Diary (by Roger A. Freeman) the B-17 was hit by an 88mm shell , blasting a special radio operator and the ball turret gunner in his turret out of the aircraft.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/side1.gif)
This is just stuff from fighter damage.
More damage of planes that RTB from larger caliber stuff (88's) here
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm
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or like when you unload 600+ rounds on a plane and they get a gas leak
-BigBOBCH
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Is it me, or does the left elevator look down, and the right elevator up?
well have a 30MM explode in your butt and I bet your arse gets in a twist too LOL
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The issue is that there IS damage inflicted with these 'tater duds' whether that be a fuel leak, oil leak, dead engine, etc. If it was a lag issue, no damage would occur and you'd just see the tater hit sprite on your end.
Do you find there to be a problem with the intent behind this thread? I don't think it's a whine by any means. Just a means to try to find a solution to a potential problem or to get an answer that explains it. Neither has occurred yet.
hey grizz, good to see you around. Good point about lighter damage caused by tater sprites but i never saw it happen myself. Ive hit the engine block and made them ditch a few times. I love 109s as much as the next person, but first the flight model now the weapons...what will be asked for next when they sort this 'problem' out?
May I also remind you that for anyone being shot at by a 109 this is not a problem at all...
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http://www.mediafire.com/file/y2ft2wdwmnt/30mm quit working.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/file/y2ft2wdwmnt/30mm quit working.ahf)
Same sortie on Titanic Tuesday this week. 3 30mils into a p-38 and he flies away. HO at the end spit flies away and gets another kill in the full length film after getting a tater in the mouth. Hopefully just a TT bug.
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Hopper first spit didnt take a 30mm at all, and P38 took 1 tator. :salute
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hey grizz, good to see you around. Good point about lighter damage caused by tater sprites but i never saw it happen myself. Ive hit the engine block and made them ditch a few times. I love 109s as much as the next person, but first the flight model now the weapons...what will be asked for next when they sort this 'problem' out?
Heya batfink.
I posted a few pages back (page 9) a picture along with film in an Me262 hitting an La7 with 3 taters and him flying off with an oil leak. You can watch it if you wish if you've honestly never seen a dud tater before. (Btw in the DA the weakest tater I've ever seen is a dead engine shot)
I don't think anything is being asked for other than clarification to the rules we are playing by and contradictions to the supposed rules. If HiTech came in here and said 30mm bullets are programmed to have varied lethality then the question would be answered.
As for the 109 flight model, I've never heard anyone around me ever complain about it, but...say for hypothetical analogy sake, from speed range 170-180, elevator controls randomly stopped working sporadically in the 109K4. If there was a thread posted about it, would that be a complaint about the 109 flight model or kind of like what is going on in this thread? Get my drift?
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Hopper first spit didnt take a 30mm at all, and P38 took 1 tator. :salute
How can you tell, when I watch the film I pause when i think it is a tater and compare to the 13mm hits. When I do this I tally it up to what I posted. Maybe I just don't understand the visual cues, but the puff is alot larger on the 30mil then 13.
I still see 3 on p38. 1 in 1 burst and 2 in another.
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How can you tell, when I watch the film I pause when i think it is a tater and compare to the 13mm hits. When I do this I tally it up to what I posted. Maybe I just don't understand the visual cues, but the puff is alot larger on the 30mil then 13.
I still see 3 on p38. 1 in 1 burst and 2 in another.
I played it in slow motion and only saw the 1 on the 38, I may be wrong but I know the 30mm it completely different from the hits from the smaller caliber weapons, they arent hard too miss :salute
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Slow motion and fast forward will give different hit sprites from what happened.
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Spit 8 with a missing wingtip. (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film16_tater_Spit8wing.ahf) A 30mm hits on the leading edge near the middle of remaining wing area, gives only fuel tank damage.
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Hope i dont get anyone mad by bumping this thread.
This Film (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1a66d28e1b590c93b94117dade8fc295e04e75f6e8ebb871) contains me shooting not one but two 30mm's into an La7's engine at point blank range but nothing happens he runs home with an oil leak.
Here is the screenshot.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp313/Strokeys/30mmDamage_1.jpg)
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Couldn't see the video, but an example of some damage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI
From 100 yds... get up close AND FIRE lads!!
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Anything I hit with the 37mm in my P-39 instantly turns into a ball of plasma and disappears.. Must be that Kraut ammo, like someone said... :D
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Slow motion and fast forward will give different hit sprites from what happened.
Ah didnt know that ty for the info :salute
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Anything I hit with the 37mm in my P-39 instantly turns into a ball of plasma and disappears..
:furious
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The single biggest factor for leaving things as they are is that we dont know how much other weapons might be concerened. So we change the 30mm so that it does even more damage. Possibly we will find an issue unrelated to code, who knows. But what then of 20mm? Should i start sending in films of 20mm hits to the cockpit that dont make them explode? What about the 20mm hit on the wing that does no damage and leaves no mark? We don't notice them because only the 30mm is expected to be a one hit wonder every time. When the 30mm fails we notice and complain. There would be no equality unless all weapons were checked for whatever reason the 30mm is malfunctioning.
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The single biggest factor for leaving things as they are is that we dont know how much other weapons might be concerened. So we change the 30mm so that it does even more damage. Possibly we will find an issue unrelated to code, who knows. But what then of 20mm? Should i start sending in films of 20mm hits to the cockpit that dont make them explode? What about the 20mm hit on the wing that does no damage and leaves no mark? We don't notice them because only the 30mm is expected to be a one hit wonder every time. When the 30mm fails we notice and complain. There would be no equality unless all weapons were checked for whatever reason the 30mm is malfunctioning.
I'm sure whatever affects the dud 30mms also affects other ammo but it's probably the root of the same problem. Fix the 30mm, you'll probably fix other ammo problems that may or may not exist that you bring up.
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oops.
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Two taters to a c205's cockpit and no damage.
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Suns/c205taterdud.ahf
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The single biggest factor for leaving things as they are is that we dont know how much other weapons might be concerened. So we change the 30mm so that it does even more damage. Possibly we will find an issue unrelated to code, who knows. But what then of 20mm? Should i start sending in films of 20mm hits to the cockpit that dont make them explode? What about the 20mm hit on the wing that does no damage and leaves no mark? We don't notice them because only the 30mm is expected to be a one hit wonder every time. When the 30mm fails we notice and complain. There would be no equality unless all weapons were checked for whatever reason the 30mm is malfunctioning.
While this may be true - that other ammo types suffer the same issue - it's the impact on gameplay that makes the 30mm duds more noticable. Consider the ratio.
If one or two rounds ends up being a "dud" in a Typhoon, thats fine, because you just let loose 80 20mm's. The other 78 rounds will do the trick.
If one or two rounds is all youre firing, thats a problem. Enter 30mm.
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Playing yesterday on Lagtastic Tuesday..... Ta152.
Shot all my 30mm rounds into a single Lanc in steady form....walked them across from wing tip to wingtip in successive 3-9/9-3 attacks. Used nothing but 30's, all 90 of em. Probably missed on 15 rounds total.
He lost a flap.
Seriously. Come ON.
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Did you film it?
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Earlier there was a mention that perhaps the extra 10mm between 20mm and 30mm wasn't all that much. I'm pretty sure that this pic should put that to rest - the destructive load of a 30mm was far and above the 20mm.
FYI the 30x90RB was the 190 30mm Mk108 model.
The 30x184B was the Mk 103.
(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/dansky69/WW2AircraftCannonSzes.jpg)
From what little I've been able to deduce it seems the 30mm was 3-4 times more deadly than the 20mm.
....size does matter eh!
****edit**** info included from the next post - thanx MOOT sir!!
"If we compare the values with the few data known from ballistic tests, we have some indications that the factors assumed in the calculations are realistic. The 20x80RB M-Geschoss and the 20x110 (Hispano) HE were rated as about equal; the greater blast effect of the M-Geschoss was countered by the greater penetration and kinetic damage inflicted by the Hispano. They do indeed emerge with similar scores. Also, the Luftwaffe reckoned that it took about four or five times as many 20 mm shells to destroy a heavy bomber as it did 30 mm rounds. The power relationship here is 3.6 times for the MK 108 and 6.2 times for the MK 103, which neatly brackets this observation."
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http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3903409977_3471f9207d.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3903409977_6d5e404a7e_o.jpg)
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I took out 2 lancs on one pass last night using only 50s.... lag rolled and killed the 3rd.
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the greater blast effect of the M-Geschoss was countered by the greater penetration and kinetic damage inflicted by the Hispano. They do indeed emerge with similar scores.
And in AH the guns' lethality is averaged from ammo belt composition, if hearsay (from years ago) is correct. The MG151 20mm is supposed to suffer more from this than the Hispano round.
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And in AH the guns' lethality is averaged from ammo belt composition, if hearsay (from years ago) is correct. The MG151 20mm is supposed to suffer more from this than the Hispano round.
That is as I understand it too.
If we got belts then the Hispano would hardly be effected, but the 151/20 would hit significantly softer on about 75% of hits and much harder, harder than a Hispano, on about 25% of hits.
I don't support the idea of player selected belts as the obvious one for the 151/20 armed aircraft would simply be 100% M-Geschoss rounds, something never done in reality to the best of my knowledge.
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Players could have selection of historical belt choices.
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Players could have selection of historical belt choices.
That I would fully support.
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While this may be true - that other ammo types suffer the same issue - it's the impact on gameplay that makes the 30mm duds more noticable. Consider the ratio.
If one or two rounds ends up being a "dud" in a Typhoon, thats fine, because you just let loose 80 20mm's. The other 78 rounds will do the trick.
If one or two rounds is all youre firing, thats a problem. Enter 30mm.
I see what you're saying but let's makeit equal. To fire 80 rounds of hispano from the quads on the typh would take about the same time as firing two or maybe even three taters. If that was the case you would be very unlucky to find 3 dud taters in the same burst.
To take it to an equal level for a single 30mm round you would have to consider a quad hispano snapshot. Around only 20-30 round fired in a crossing snapshot? With a good aim, a generous hit% of 50% for the snapshot; say we land 15 rounds of 20mm. Lets say 1/3 of those 20mm are 'dud' then we land 10 rounds of 20mm. This should still make a kill in convergence but a hit ratio of 50% is still not certain from the offset. It would be fair to say that true snapshots even in convergence are a 50-50 thing with 20mm even using a perfect aim from the pilot.
On the 30mm side this snapshot only allow time for 1 tater, or maybe a 2 round burst with good stick control, lets say 1. Lets also asume that 1/3 taters is dud. The 30mm hit % from a 'perfect aim' pilot is 100% for this snapshot. Therefore 2/3 is a kill for this snapshot with 30mm which is higher than the typh for a true snapshot oppertunity. In reality the dud 30mm must be more like 1 in 25? I dont know.
All speculation of course, only point being that this issue may not be purely 30mm related. It could even be as simple as the intended dud 30mm hit sprites looking the same as the explosions.
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The boss must not know either...
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www.dasmuppets.com/public/billyd/invincible f4f.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/billyd/invincible f4f.ahf)
4 tater hits no damage
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Billy, that link crashed my browser! :huh
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Works here..
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Billy, that link crashed my browser! :huh
save target as
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"Players could have selection of historical belt choices."
I'm not sure what that means. As far as I have understood the belt compositions and instructions were recommendations only by Reichslufts ministeriet (as in Galland's Schiessfibel) so practically a pilot could request the armourers to load what ever kind of belting they pleased.
However, there are several (default) beltings that I have read somewhere that were used in LW planes after introduction of Minengeshoss:
20mm:
AP-HE-HE-MG (early)
AP-HE(T)-MG-MG (mid)
API-I-MG (late, bombers)
API-I-MG-MG-MG (late, fighters etc)
30mm:
MG-I
-C+
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save target as
I did.
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"Players could have selection of historical belt choices."
I'm not sure what that means. As far as I have understood the belt compositions and instructions were recommendations only by Reichslufts ministeriet (as in Galland's Schiessfibel) so practically a pilot could request the armourers to load what ever kind of belting they pleased.
I mean whatever configurations could be found in records.. Is there evidence that pilots actually used every cfg? The least useful once at least, could be ommitted in such a loadout choice.
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www.dasmuppets.com/public/billyd/invincible f4f.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/billyd/invincible f4f.ahf)
4 tater hits no damage
Billy I only saw 1 tator hit 3 mg hits with it....FM2s,P47s would probably be the only fighters to be able to "eat" a 30mm :salute
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Bad example sir...... Your ride has auto-convergence........... :D
I took out 2 lancs on one pass last night using only 50s.... lag rolled and killed the 3rd.
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Billy I only saw 1 tator hit 3 mg hits with it....FM2s,P47s would probably be the only fighters to be able to "eat" a 30mm :salute
I was wrong I count 6 30mm sprites and a boat load of mg over the two gunruns at .04x speed. I did do some damage as some small pieces flew off :rolleyes:
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/splittiebus66/invincible2.jpg)
gun run one taters 1,2,and 3
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt86/splittiebus66/invincible3.jpg)
gun run two taters 4, 5, and 6
I think each of those sprites is a hit correct? either way watch the runs at super slow speed BUKA BUKA BUKA :)
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Time modifier gives false tater hits. You need to watch it in 1x time..
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Hi all!
A few days ago, we were out of ammo. So we sent a commando detail to steal a one of our ammo trsucks, which had been captured by the enemy.
The commando raid was a success. now we coukd fly our Yak-9T's(37 mm cannon) against the attackers.
Took off and, sweeping, met a low flying Lancaster formation,
I attack, and hit with 37mm, the Lanc goes on as if nothing happened. :rolleyes:
I repeat the attack, pumping as many rounds as I can in that fast pass. It finally goes down.
Later we found out the enemy had sabotaged our 37mm ammo... :eek:
Mutley out.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jm2qyykzxdj (http://www.mediafire.com/?jm2qyykzxdj)
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Time modifier gives false tater hits. You need to watch it in 1x time..
Hmm that's interesting...did not know that, thanks m00t....def. see 30mm hits each time tho even at 1X speed..... :uhoh
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(http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/billyd_fuze_F4Ftater.jpg)
It does look like 2 30mm in the wing. It happens too fast to be sure whether the second 30mm hits the wing or the left hstab surface (or side of the fuselage?), but IMO at least an elevator would've come off if it had hit the tail. A flap does come off the left wing where at least 1 30mm hit.
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why would only a flap come off of a plane after a 30mm hit lol its just weird
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Gotta look at the blueprints.. There could be detonation only after the bullet penetrated, and then the flap structure takes the brunt of the explosion somehow. Remember that flaps don't actually have to fall off, they only need to be damaged for the flap damage to register and its animation to display.
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Gotta look at the blueprints..blah blah
Why ya ignoring my PM to set up a dueling time when you clearly have the time to post in every other thread?
just rude if you ask me. :rolleyes:
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You can have it. You're champion. Congrats.
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Dont be a loser, just explain to me why i send you PMs asking you to tell me a time that suits you and you refuse to reply for over 4 days when you clearly have been active on the forum.
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I did reply. Said it was fine and you replied that you'd be there. Wed night UK time IIRC. I've been busy and since you're in a hurry and the ladder's waiting on this match, I'm just gonna forfeit and let you have it. I have too much stuff to do and it's the same to me.
Grats.
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Thats a load of mumbojumbo, I replied to your call of wednesday right away and asked you for a time that would suit you, since i knew you were busy. That was on monday, 2 days for you to come up with a reply. Instead I'm left logging in to the arenas on wednesday and .f moot with no result. If you had just replied to me and set a time that would be a simple 15 minute deal.
You cannot just cop out this easy just because you dont like me, you entered this competition you should see it through to the end.
I'm prefectly happy to wait till you feel ready, but if you bring your personal feelings into this and ignore me how can we conclude the competition.
So right here in public (as you ignore private) Tell me a time moot, i will be there. Take as long as you need to prepare for it. But hurry the fup up about it right?
S!
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Ah please. You sent a PM asking for a time. I replied saying x times were fine, or something, to which you replied saying you'd be on at Y time. Y time went by and I never got to PRACTICE for this fight because I've been too damn BUSY for the last month. It's a game and I have a lot of real work + the commitments to a couple of things like the wiki and some trainer stuff. So now the tourny's stalled because of it and I'm not interested in a fight where I'm rusty as hell, nor in stalling a whole tourny just because of my workload, nor indeed in the particular fight itself.
Now you wanna make this a big drawn out drama, well I'm just going to not reply. Grats on the win. Now you can do something useful for everyone and start the next tourny right now since BE's still AWOL, it really doesn't take much to run, and it's proven very popular with everyone.
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You're quiting out of the final of the competition just because you might be a bit 'rusty', and i'm making the drama?
How would you feel in my shoes?
I wanted to fight you because youre the most succesfull of all the players on your side of the bracket. I wanted to lose to you, if you were better.
More importantly we now insult all the people who would have wanted a chance in the final but lost.
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I saw this one coming.. :lol Poop happens. Like WORK happens. Something has to go and unfortunately my time playing the game for fun, such as this tourny, is below a bunch of other things like studying for class, the dozen neuroscience papers I want to read, a strict eating and exercise schedule, and so on.
Next time I'll just not take part that way I don't have to be lectured about how insulting I am for having good intentions.
Bye.
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... or take on the runner up then . The one moot defeated, he should move into the next bracket. :D
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i dunno what to say
sorry to see it end like this for you mechanic, but hey, if moot cant take the pounding :) leave him run, whilst making excuses, although looking at his times of postings he could have had time to do the duel, even if a bit rusty (as he claims) just to settle this and get it over with, but obviously he has no intentions on doing so
:salute
on a side note, i thought i was the master of excuses, but seriously, moot can i use a few of yours for my new book :)
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Wow.
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:rofl
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People have lifes DF swans lol ... i belive him 100% <S> moot wtg on making finals sir! I aswell have things to do in life. I don't have much time playing a game anymore with golf and school and girls :).
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People have lifes DF swans lol ... i belive him 100% <S> moot wtg on making finals sir! I aswell have things to do in life. I don't have much time playing a game anymore with golf and school and girls :).
I saw moot land 23 kills in an me262 in the MA a few days ago, then i asked him to duel he said no, too busy.
He has time to waste landing 23 kills and then right after refuse to do 3 quick duels?
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I'm gonna skip sleep the next couple nights and the match will get done.
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People have lifes DF swans lol ... i belive him 100% <S> moot wtg on making finals sir! I aswell have things to do in life. I don't have much time playing a game anymore with golf and school and girls :).
Whats one of those lifes u talk about?? i must get myself one :)
nah i do understand that people do have a life to live, but seriously 15 minutes isnt much to ask for, i just read what was posted, and the times they were posted, ample time to do the duel and save all this trouble that its causing
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Wrong. Taking time out to help on the forum to make up for time in the TA doesn't amoung to "ample time to do duels" like people expect them to be, i.e. put up a fight. And while some people seem to take this so seriously as accuse others of being insulting and petulant and the whole shebang for putting RL ahead of what's after all a game, that's not how it is for me.
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I saw moot land 23 kills in an me262 in the MA a few days ago, then i asked him to duel he said no, too busy.
He has time to waste landing 23 kills and then right after refuse to do 3 quick duels?
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/136144940_4f2d236941_m.jpg)
I hope moot gives you a 20 Mike Mike up the Alpha Hotel for acting like you are, in a thread that had nothing to do with you. Obviously your aim is only to publicly belittle him, by posting this crap. PM him, and after that, Grow up.
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/136144940_4f2d236941_m.jpg)
I hope moot gives you a 20 Mike Mike up the Alpha Hotel for acting like you are, in a thread that had nothing to do with you. Obviously your aim is only to publicly belittle him, by posting this crap. PM him, and after that, Grow up.
He did not reply to my PM. I PM'ed him asking for a specific time and got no reply for 3 days, which resulted in us failing to meet up on wednesday or any subsequent day.
I assumed he was busy, but then i see him posting waffle in other threads. Respectfully...publicly.. i asked him to tell me a time to meet, he responded with spite but no time still. You try to belittle me now in return? This whole thing is turning sour and all i asked for was a set time that we could fight.
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Take it out of this thread, psycho.
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He did not reply to my PM. I PM'ed him asking for a specific time and got no reply for 3 days, which resulted in us failing to meet up on wednesday or any subsequent day.
I assumed he was busy, but then i see him posting waffle in other threads. Respectfully...publicly.. i asked him to tell me a time to meet, he responded with spite but no time still. You try to belittle me now in return? This whole thing is turning sour and all i asked for was a set time that we could fight.
72 hours... oh noes!!!!!!!!!
No, the "sour"part happened when you came into a thread entitled "30mm damage" to attempt to publicly humiliate a very active, respected and generous member of this gaming community. I hope your three duels are worth the stupidity that you've portrayed.
If you're wondering, your correct course of action is to cease posting in this thread, unless it pertains to the topic.
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It was a long time ago that we were matched, and BE went AWOL suddenly. I even offered moot a starting plane of 109e if you had paid attention. Check your PMs, please.
I had 2 dud taters in the 152 the other day, on an la7 it clearly has some issue, but the guy augered anyhow and i was already off at 540mph straight upwards.
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sounds like somebody just needs to man up and commit to what they signed up for...
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(http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/dthru.png)
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What should i do if Im landing alot of MG hits but no Tators?
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What should i do if Im landing alot of MG hits but no Tators?
Thank god that you didn't get hit :pray
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What should i do if Im landing alot of MG hits but no Tators?
If it consistently happens, you might have some bad habits.. Film would clear it up.
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If it consistently happens, you might have some bad habits.. Film would clear it up.
...bad habits?? :confused:
...nose picking? ..using both sides toilet paper to save $$?? ...speaking to republicans (democrats)?? heheheh :uhoh :uhoh
actualy what do you mean because I would like to know if it is related to our flight manauvers or is it technical computer thing.
cheers eh! :D
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It's just that people seem to get into bad habits more than seldom, and often enough the symptom is one particular pattern repeating over and over. Like CAP1 (I think) in one of the Rope threads in the Help forum. He consistently reverses a little too late. His judgement of how near stalling out the target is, needs(ed) a slight recalibration.
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The answer to all this is the Yak-9T. Ballistics seem pretty good. Damage is invariably catastrophic.
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The answer to all this is the Yak-9T. Ballistics seem pretty good. Damage is invariably catastrophic.
Absolutely, but unfortunately also suffers from the dweebfire bug. Any other fighter once you see the flash of a hit you can instantly pull off and engage the next thing coming.. Dweebfires you have to wait and check.
<S>...-Gixer
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You're saying that Spits sometimes take 37mm without enough damage to crash? Or do they sometimes take no damage at all?
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It's just that people seem to get into bad habits more than seldom, and often enough the symptom is one particular pattern repeating over and over. Like CAP1 (I think) in one of the Rope threads in the Help forum. He consistently reverses a little too late. His judgement of how near stalling out the target is, needs(ed) a slight recalibration.
Ill try to get you some film moot, i think i might be shooting to far out...is 400 too far?
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You're saying that Spits sometimes take 37mm without enough damage to crash? Or do they sometimes take no damage at all?
Only seems to be a feature of the latest model dweebfires, they take a fuel leak hit to the wing or no damage at all. More common is the fuel leak hit. Of course majority of them just explode as they should.
I'll try get film one day.
<S>...-Gixer
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Ill try to get you some film moot, i think i might be shooting to far out...is 400 too far?
The circular pattern on sights wasn't there for decoration - all (if more than 1) indicated a "wing width" of general enemy planes be they fighters or buffs and that is how they decided optimum distance to commence firing - NO in flight "distance ranges" for them. Do a little research on the sight itself or set up off line some averages to work with.
IRL there were many reports by the better flyers to "wait till they filled the wind screen". I personally don't fire cannon above 400yds preferably 300yds (600 with MGs if trying to get em to turn). I have seen many firing up to 1000 but that may just be what it shows at my end - they may see me at 600 - lag being the issue.
Try some variations till you see what works best for you - I know there are some that wait to 200.
cheers eh!
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Junky, under the right conditions I'll shoot the 30mm out past 800yards. I will shoot at 400 if I see any shot developing but generally I use acm to get closer. Within 200.
I know you dedicated some time to the k4, but then the ki after that, and I don't know what plane you're on now. If you don't have a good idea where the tater round is going, I'd start close in again until you get the feel back. Once you feel you have that going for you, then don't hesitate to take some of the crazy shots. You're often rewarded for them, hopefully not with one of these weak taters though! :)
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Ill try to get you some film moot, i think i might be shooting to far out...is 400 too far?
If you can get me film of a few (as many ideally, but dont sweat it) different situations where it happens, I won't need to guess. I shoot to 400 almost half the time. The circular pattern on sights wasn't there for decoration - all (if more than 1) indicated a "wing width" of general enemy planes be they fighters or buffs and that is how they decided optimum distance to commence firing - NO in flight "distance ranges" for them. Do a little research on the sight itself or set up off line some averages to work with.
IRL there were many reports by the better flyers to "wait till they filled the wind screen". I personally don't fire cannon above 400yds preferably 300yds (600 with MGs if trying to get em to turn). I have seen many firing up to 1000 but that may just be what it shows at my end - they may see me at 600 - lag being the issue.
Try some variations till you see what works best for you - I know there are some that wait to 200.
cheers eh!
If you want to do it this way (personally I feel the LW sights just get in the way and would rather make the 30mm ballistics second nature), make sure you check the "authentic" sight against the .target in AH. I know the Corsair's gunsight is not to historical proportion, so there's some chance that the bitmap Luftwaffe gunsights and in-game gunsight size are also off.
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If you can get me film of a few (as many ideally, but dont sweat it) different situations where it happens, I won't need to guess. I shoot to 400 almost half the time. If you want to do it this way (personally I feel the LW sights just get in the way and would rather make the 30mm ballistics second nature), make sure you check the "authentic" sight against the .target in AH. I know the Corsair's gunsight is not to historical proportion, so there's some chance that the bitmap Luftwaffe gunsights and in-game gunsight size are also off.
Been filming everything but havnt been flying a K4 much
Junky, under the right conditions I'll shoot the 30mm out past 800yards. I will shoot at 400 if I see any shot developing but generally I use acm to get closer. Within 200.
I know you dedicated some time to the k4, but then the ki after that, and I don't know what plane you're on now. If you don't have a good idea where the tater round is going, I'd start close in again until you get the feel back. Once you feel you have that going for you, then don't hesitate to take some of the crazy shots. You're often rewarded for them, hopefully not with one of these weak taters though! :)
Scotch I actually went to the Mossy but the AH factory ran out of wood from me trying to fight Grizz,Kappa, and Hate 1v1 in it :D KI is my fall back for sure she is a K4 w/ hog flaps what more could you want more, oh wait ammo :aok ask Suns for our KI vs KI fight was a nice one but he did this move Ive only seen out of acouple of you ubber sticks which turned the tide of the fight, bunch of cheaters all of yas :D
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Another beauty: No Kill, No assist(2 30mm hits) (http://www.mediafire.com/?td5jmzvqz2n) (see what I did there?)
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Another beauty: No Kill, No assist(2 30mm hits) (http://www.mediafire.com/?td5jmzvqz2n) (see what I did there?)
you gang turd :D I saw the 30mm nothing else........
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Sry big bump but I think its a legit problem. KI61 takes a tator just behind pilots head, watch it through the KIs view you can see it if you slow it down
http://www.mediafire.com/?0tmdjmhxend
:salute
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It happens, deal with it. Some in RL were duds too.
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It happens, deal with it. Some in RL were duds too.
Are you saying duds are programmed into Ah2? That was the intent of this thread when it was created, to learn what the reason behind duds was. Of course, HiTech never let anyone know what the issue was which is strange, he has a great track record of clearing matters like this up.
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Had this happen with me and Stormdog a few days back...which is one of the reasons for his question on Japanese armour..... I got hit with a tator (109K4)...probably about the same spot and got an oil hit and was able to ditch......when I heard it hit and didn't go to the tower I thought it strange.....Stormdog still got the kill made sure of that before the pesky little La came in for the scraps.
on a lighterside....if you take a good look at the piece of framing behind the drivers seat you will notice there are holes...it is my belief that these where introduced to have a mashing effect on tators thus rendering them useless whilst allowing for a tasty snack on those long sorties
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Are you saying duds are programmed into Ah2? That was the intent of this thread when it was created, to learn what the reason behind duds was. Of course, HiTech never let anyone know what the issue was which is strange, he has a great track record of clearing matters like this up.
Not saying that, but it's more that it's a glitch than that of a program. I mean if your in a fight and you land a tater, you usually have total domination over the other person, unless your picking. I only had it happen to me once and I got a good laugh at it, rolled over and put another tater in him.
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Not saying that, but it's more that it's a glitch than that of a program. I mean if your in a fight and you land a tater, you usually have total domination over the other person, unless your picking. I only had it happen to me once and I got a good laugh at it, rolled over and put another tater in him.
Im surprised you of all people said this because I personally have seen planes exchange shot for shot before, one reason I like the 30mm is when I hit I (almost) know the plane is dead.
Are you saying duds are programmed into Ah2? That was the intent of this thread when it was created, to learn what the reason behind duds was. Of course, HiTech never let anyone know what the issue was which is strange, he has a great track record of clearing matters like this up.
We are "waiting on one" :)
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rolled over and put another tater in him.
Oh jesus....jesus christ ;)
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Hitech has made an entire game of NOT penalizing the player with minutae such as engine failures, gun jams, mechanical failures, and so forth.
Believing he would out-of-the-blue intentionally code in "duds" is extremely illogical. He's made his position clear. The problem almost certainly lies in hit detection, net lag, or something code-related, rather than the shell in question being coded to have no damage.
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Hitech has made an entire game of NOT penalizing the player with minutae such as engine failures, gun jams, mechanical failures, and so forth.
Believing he would out-of-the-blue intentionally code in "duds" is extremely illogical. He's made his position clear. The problem almost certainly lies in hit detection, net lag, or something code-related, rather than the shell in question being coded to have no damage.
I agree with you Krusty, I just want to hear what someone from HTC feels about it. Its just wierd I kill 25 guys 1 tator 1 kill then have a plane get hit towards the pilot and he doesnt take damage :salute