Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on December 21, 2014, 09:59:06 AM
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Much has been said about the decline of the player base in Aces High. I think most of us can agree that. while nice and possibly overdue, new graphics aren't going to change anything, at least not more than temporarily.
Each of us can cite factors that have caused people to leave; the twelve hour rule, big maps, bases too easy or too hard to take... or overriding external factors; the economy, the aging of our community... I tend to believe the decline in population has more to do with external factors than gameplay dynamics. The reason I believe this is that at one point we had Aces High, Warbirds, Fighter Ace and IL2 all with thriving communities of their own. Now, for the most part, only Aces High remains as the last game standing and the combined population is still in decline. Certainly there's something much larger at play here than a simple side switching rule (I use that as an example only).
The following except from an interview with Dave Kaemmer of Papyrus Racing Games has stuck with me through the years (for those who aren't aware Papyrus was once the clear leader in racing simulations):
And now, Papyrus is no more, along with Vivendi Universal components Sierra and Impressions Games. Why? Clearly Vivendi felt it needed to undertake a little general housecleaning. But in the specific case of Papyrus, there was quite likely more to the story. Kaemmer has some strong feelings in this regard. "I think there were a number of factors that led to Papyrus' closure. Chief among them is that interest in simulations, a category somewhat different than most games, hasn't grown at the same rate as interest in games in general. Simulations are more difficult to market, since the fundamental enjoyment you get out of them is learning a difficult skill. People buying a toy--which is how people think of computer "games"-- apparently don't expect or want to master a difficult skill."
"The computer game business is really becoming a toy business, especially with the popularity of console gaming. That's not the right market for a simulation. To revisit the golf analogy, it's like trying to sell real golf clubs at a mini-golf pavilion. Certainly you would sell some, but too many of the people coming through to play mini-golf aren't interested in real golf--it's too difficult and time consuming. That's what's happening to simulations, I think. The game industry is saying, 'Look, people aren't buying very many of these golf clubs--can we make a cheaper bag? Plastic instead of leather? Can you make it easier to play golf? It's too hard, plus people have to walk too far.'"
"The real problem is that we're reaching the wrong customers. If Papyrus were to have dumbed down the experience in order to make a console game, they would have had no competitive advantage. There are a zillion driving "games" out there and many of them look really nice since the console budgets allow for a lot of flash. But none of them are true driving simulators, despite what they say. They don't need to be. They are being sold by the licenses. What Papyrus did that really nobody else did was make true simulations--you can really find out what racing is like with a Papyrus simulation. If you can do well in GPL or NR2003, you know how to drive a car at the limit."
Here's a link to the full article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/history-of-papyrus-racing-games/1100-6103365/
If you think of this in the context of the recent onslaught of free to play games that so many cite as low fidelity from a simulation standpoint but with astounding graphics it really starts to make sense.
I don't think a ton of advertising by HT is going to make more than a short term difference either under the current business model. It will simply bring people in only to leave soon after and wouldn't be a good use of capital for HT. I do think some type of free to play element would help. The old H2H arenas fostered some new blood, particularly when the F2P players hands were forced when they were taken away.
What the game really needs is the reuniting and support of it's core customer base. I don't play much anymore but even when I was struggling financially I still sent in my $15/mo. and still do. If all our old friends returned we'd once again have a thriving community. If, on the other hand, we leave because the numbers are low or a rule is changed not to our liking the game is doomed to spiral into oblivion and another great aspect of the computer simulation environment will be lost.
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You make a good point there. Times have changed quite a bit since AH2 came about. People these days look for relatively easy or free games to play. People don't have the attention span anymore to sit down and put in the time to learn how to be good in a Sim game. They just go with the excuse of "It's too hard" and leave. Look at War Thunder. I think only 2% of their player base plays historical and sim battles, the rest all play Arcade. Why? Because it's easy, matches are short, and it looks pretty.
I agree some kind of F2P aspect of AH2 would be great to give people more of a taste than the 2 week free trial. Anyone who is willing to put forth time to learn this game just doesn't have enough time to decide if it's worth the subscription with just a 2 week free trial.
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Support it how? I already do, I pay my $14.99 a month and have for over 15 years. Since HiTech has over the decades made it known that he's the Gaming business expert and no advice is needed, wanted or requested. Only HiTech knows what the bottom line is and he doesn't share that information with the customers. At some point he won't be able to afford a new toy and he has wife and kids to support, at that point he will move on, sell or gut the business. I think the time and money spent to develop pretty water, grass and tress is a waste. The game is what it is and it's still great and fun to play. New changes may actually harm the player base as with this tight economy I'm not planing on buying a new gaming machine just to play this game. If as it turned out when the move from AHI to AHII a lot of people had to upgrade their machines to continue playing and that's about the time I noticed the first declines in population. If HI-tech wanted to do something for the player base, offer an annual subscription $15.00 a month or $120.00 a year paid annually. You might find that a lot of former players might come back if they had a way to reduce the monthly cost.
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This is just my opinion,but it seems to me that gaming is going portable with the growing smart phone trend. People can take their games with them now. Top all that with tablets and no one wants to be tied to a pc any more.this is only a part of what's happening imo.
If you look at sale trends, tablets and portable type pc's are out selling desktops. Unfortunately we can't play AH on a tablet. ( I'm not carrying a stick and throttle around everywhere!) It would be nice but this is not a portable game. I think it will never be one at that. Just my 4 cents worth.
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As a point of reference I was a long time AW player and made the migration from AW to AH, cant single it down to one reason, but I haven't been able to stick to AH, on and off over the years.
I will say I just recently signed back on and bought into the pay in advance to get a months free so I'm back at least for awhile. 61 years old so I'm no kid.
Last night I was teaching my 25 year old how to play. When we got on radar was up so we choose a base to defend, then we chose a base to attack. Then dar went down, we could see blinking bases but couldn't tell where a fight really was. The attack flights comprised of flying for 10-12 minutes then finding no one left at the base. The next couple attack flights comprised of basically the same thing although we did find a few small fights.
Sorry I know I don't know the routine yet but it was pretty boring. To put it bluntly. I couldn't help but think about these new player threads and think to myself if I were a completely new player why would I come back. Not sure what I'm trying to say here but one thing, we both felt the map was to big.
To much flying for altitude and to little action. If you don't fly for altitude you get jumped by someone who does. Too many players spread out all over the place. Please don't rip me I'm just trying to relay an AH experience from our eyes that I think fits in with the recent gameplay threads.
Ultimately we ended up switching to Battlefield 4, Knives and Pistols only, Locker, it was a blast, and if you think that doesn't take a degree of skill to survive and come out with decent scores your wrong.
Is the moral of the story speed up the gameplay or get more into the gameplay, condense the gameplay, not sure just my 2 cents.
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As a point of reference I was a long time AW player and made the migration from AW to AH, cant single it down to one reason, but I haven't been able to stick to AH, on and off over the years.
I will say I just recently signed back on and bought into the pay in advance to get a months free so I'm back at least for awhile. 61 years old so I'm no kid.
Last night I was teaching my 25 year old how to play. When we got on radar was up so we choose a base to defend, then we chose a base to attack. Then dar went down, we could see blinking bases but couldn't tell where a fight really was. The attack flights comprised of flying for 10-12 minutes then finding no one left at the base. The next couple attack flights comprised of basically the same thing although we did find a few small fights.
Sorry I know I don't know the routine yet but it was pretty boring. To put it bluntly. I couldn't help but think about these new player threads and think to myself if I were a completely new player why would I come back. Not sure what I'm trying to say here but one thing, we both felt the map was to big.
To much flying for altitude and to little action. If you don't fly for altitude you get jumped by someone who does. Too many players spread out all over the place. Please don't rip me I'm just trying to relay an AH experience from our eyes that I think fits in with the recent gameplay threads.
Ultimately we ended up switching to Battlefield 4, Knives and Pistols only, Locker, it was a blast, and if you think that doesn't take a degree of skill to survive and come out with decent scores your wrong.
Is the moral of the story speed up the gameplay or get more into the gameplay, condense the gameplay, not sure just my 2 cents.
Pefectly stated. - 'Condense the gameplay.'
Oh and...Fly Aces High!
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The computer game business is really becoming a toy business
I believe this to be true for any computer game. In my childhood we climbed trees, hid behind rocks, ran for shelter, shot the huns or caught robbers just like our heroes on TV or Commando comics. Simulator games gave an opportunity to take the playing one step further towards the real thing in a cost effective and adult acceptable way. Who cares if there's a learning curve? It still enables us to be aerial or racing heroes, no matter what our physical or economical limitations may be. Maybe next time I'd be the one shouting ‘Take that, squarehead!’...
As you know today's children programs are merely a cartoon version of TV shop! Cards, figurines, gameboards, table arenas, spinners... And if you can't beat your opponent with your skills, simply ask mom or dad buy you the superpower gear. No need for learning anything, just play. When you get bored, there's a new cartoon series showing you a truckload of new items to buy and play with.
A man can reveal his inner Tarzan, Batman or Battler Britton at any age without having to feel ashamed. Somehow I don't believe being a Pokemon figure would be as widely accepted after kindergarten. Except for luscious young women in minimalistic Pikachu outfits. But that's an entirely different playground.
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AH does not listen to the customer for the most part. They did some surveys on which plane to add, which was great. Outside of that I do not see or have the thought that they give the first crud what their customers think about the experience.
Over the years I've read great ideas on how to acclimate new players to the rigors of ACM...cricket chirps. How to handle large maps, nothing. In fact, any idea...they simple do not care. The ONLY response we get is either Skuzzy pulling out the ban hammer for the whole 1st Amendment thing, or the occasional pictures of the new graphics. The 12-hour rule alone was an eye opening change to both experience and read on the board. The only activity I see...do we really think eye candy will turn it around?
To the point of a previous post this this thread around dar bar and no fights....with the numbers so low even when I have 20-30 minutes for a single sortie I don't take it. Chances are really good the only fight I'm going to find is a capped base with the vulch light on and I either spend 20+ minutes getting vulched, or I need to up from an adjacent based, spend 10-15 minutes of flight time just to get to the fight. If I have an hour or two, sure, I'll do that. When I don't have that kind of time I don't even bother logging in.
So many small and yet functional ideas from players who have flown this and other games for years and years....AH has no interest in even considering.
And within this reality of not caring what the customer thinks the hardcore among us invariable note we should simple be quiet, stop complaining and soldier on. For almost a year I've planned to add over 100 JROTC cadets to the ranks of AH, teach them basic ACM though more importantly leadership, strategic thinking, etc via a live gaming experience that they would love. As struggled as this environment is we moved onto a space lab instead.
I'm sad all around but....
boo
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I have been supporting HTC since 2000, and will continue until they close the doors most likely, when ever that may be.
I agree that this is a nitch market game. I also agree that it doesn't translate to "mobile" gaming as well, However, I still believe that it can continue and maybe even grow, but there has got to be a lot done.
The games that thrive at this point are those with quick action. My son "the gamer" can't be bothered by this game only due to the time it takes to find a fight. The 12 hour rule needs to be relaxed, and the loss of dar issue needs to be addressed. These two things alone slow the action more than anything else.
The learning curve issue. Do you know why it's such an issue? Because the game is setup and played to make it very easy to hide/runaway from combat..... and this in a combat simulation game :rolleyes: Forcing the action to happen quicker will force players to fight. If you fight one fight a night you don't learn much. If your forced to fight 20 fights a night I think your going to learn a lot faster. Smaller maps with closer bases can accomplish this. Again, quicker action.
Prettier graphics. Sure this is going to help bring in new players..... as long as HTC lets the world know it has a new release. If they don't, nothing will change. They have begun a "word of mouth" campaign using social media. When was the last announcement on "facebook", October 9th. Hell I'm an old guy with mostly family following and I post more often than that! As a company that deals WITH their customers, HTC is top notch. I called once with a question about my account and Dale answered the phone (He said everyone else had gone out for pizza :D ), but as a company that is looking to expand it's player base..... you need a map and a magic compass to find any info on them.
I don't know how much longer until the new update comes out, tho I expect it is still months away, they should be posting everyday if not a couple times a day. It only takes a few seconds. A quick screen capture over a town in the update, post. a screen capture of a GV rolling through the new countryside, post. And so on and so on. Even if you post a dozen shots of GVs in a week people will hunt for anything that is in the background, generating "buzz" about the update. The more "buzz" the more likely search engines will pick up the info and get it out there. If you post daily, imagine the "buzz" you could build in a couple of months.... about the time of a possible new release maybe :devil
Typing "WWII flight sims" in Google doesn't bring up Aces High on the first page. It was on the second page, but how many people bother looking at a second page? HTC needs a PR person/group. They need to get info out there NOW to get things rolling for LATER. Flight/Combat sims are a smaller nitch market, but even then, why is HTC so low on google? Not enough buzz! Using social media to build buzz only works if you post, wheres the posts?
Yes I support HTC, for years and years, and I hope to support them for many years to come, but if they continue to turn a blind eye to the ever changing dynamics of the game and ever changing dynamics of the gamers world they will end up on the losing end as the game world rolls on by.
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Since HiTech has over the decades made it known that he's the Gaming business expert and no advice is needed, wanted or requested.
Not true.
New planes/gv's are the result of player polls.
Enlarged towns and the maproom flag were player suggestions, as were field 88's.
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This is the best game ever. And the closest game to a realistic flight model I've ever played. I laugh at all the whining and crying about trivial things on this forum. Merry Christmas everyone!
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This is the best game ever. And the closest game to a realistic flight model I've ever played. I laugh at all the whining and crying about trivial things on this forum. Merry Christmas everyone!
I love your enthusiam. You've been around since 2012? Back in the day....you have no idea though keep up the good cheer. There is a reason those who have been around a long time are so very concerned.
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I will continue to support this game and will never stop!
Merry Christmas to all!!
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Isn't it said that the adjustments made at halftime by the better coaches are what win the game? these adjustments seem like those that keep players not attract players, relatively minor by comparison, big to existing players but which one is going to get anyone's attn. outside the game.
The world of multiplayer gaming is making better halftime adjustments and its grown by leaps and bounds, hasn't HT said he wants to remain a small company, there is a danger alone in that line of thinking
Learning curve bah, if you really like a game you'll do what's necessary to win and I don't mean buying gadgets, I mean putting in the time, everyone wants to win if they like a game.
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Not true.
New planes/gv's are the result of player polls.
Enlarged towns and the maproom flag were player suggestions, as were field 88's.
Any of the hundreds of customer suggestions to increase player base / business have basically gone ignored.
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See rule #4
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Any of the hundreds of customer suggestions to increase player base / business have basically gone ignored.
You are correct, I have ignored hundreds of ideas, But I have also implemented hundreds of player ideas.
HiTech
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You are correct, I have ignored hundreds of ideas, But I have also implemented hundreds of player ideas.
HiTech
Not that you or anyone need to support your posts with supporting data, can you list a few player ideas you have implemented?
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Not that you or anyone need to support your posts with supporting data, can you list a few player ideas you have implemented?
peak/offpeak arena system :old: :noid
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You are correct, I have ignored hundreds of ideas, But I have also implemented hundreds of player ideas.
HiTech
Not to increase customer base.
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Not that you or anyone need to support your posts with supporting data, can you list a few player ideas you have implemented?
I got a Camel and a Dr1. :D Might have been coincidence. :lol
The "don't move your stick so fast" was changed to take airspeed into account.
This allows more frantic stall recovery while still serving it's purpose.
Not to increase customer base.
I think you're confusing ignored with read and rejected.
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Any of the hundreds of customer suggestions to increase player base / business have basically gone ignored.
Maybe those ideas haven't been very good.
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Making the control mapping easier would be a start. Do you notice a lot of games give you a walk through on your first time playing? This is a lot to learn, with no help other than "go look it up online."
To keep the younger generation in flight sims, a good idea is to help them by making it easier. Im not saying change the flight model or anything, but help them learn. Think back to the first time you logged into AH, it was a lot to take in. This generation of "I want it now" youth, just want things easy, learning this game currently is not.
It really is the way the world for younger generations is heading... easier, faster, etc..
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See rule #4
4- Flamebaiting, flaming, being abusing, being disrepectful, trolling, spamming or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
What was it that was any violation of rule 4 by pointing out that HTC uses free labor for Map creation. That customers build and code the MAPS. That some of the Maps created by customers, contain bugs or don’t work properly and these maps are still used.
Seem dodgy.
For example, the other day I noticed a base flashing with radar down and nothing on bardar, no vehicle spawns to the field so I figured it must be an NOE raider.....so I upped to defend from another field nearby and headed straight for the flashing airfield. I got to around 5 miles away with still nothing showing on dar when suddenly a bardar appeared. Ok, so the NOE raider must have just popped up....however, not 10 seconds later an N1K appeared at 13,000ft.
I have this on film, but the film doesnt show my clipboard map.
It's been a problem for years. Usually it seems to mostly occur near the strats, but this morning it happened where a base started flashing with no darbar until icon range and it was a Tempest at 15k.
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Making the control mapping easier would be a start. Do you notice a lot of games give you a walk through on your first time playing? This is a lot to learn, with no help other than "go look it up online."
To keep the younger generation in flight sims, a good idea is to help them by making it easier. Im not saying change the flight model or anything, but help them learn. Think back to the first time you logged into AH, it was a lot to take in. This generation of "I want it now" youth, just want things easy, learning this game currently is not.
It really is the way the world for younger generations is heading... easier, faster, etc..
My generation is full of stupid dipshits.
No one wants to learn ANYTHING.
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Not that you or anyone need to support your posts with supporting data, can you list a few player ideas you have implemented?
Implementing external view for fighter aircraft (as long as the the plane is on the ground) so we could simulate a walk-around of the aircraft, to examine the custom skins up close. Before that, all you could see of the custom skin you chose was what you could see in the hangar
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Maybe those ideas haven't been very good.
That quote was basically taken out of context, it was in response to someone stating that HTC used the suggestions from the wishlist for creations of new aircraft.
I agree with HTC's approach to not take business advice from customers. It's his business/responsibility to make Hi-Tech successful or not.
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Not that you or anyone need to support your posts with supporting data, can you list a few player ideas you have implemented?
I had two wishes granted in one week.
1. Reduce game sounds when sending/receiving VOX communication, in order to clearly hear the comm.
2. Ability to listen to game sounds and adjust them with sliders as needed.
Coogan
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Part of it is that people don't have joysticks just lying around anymore.
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I always viewed the rise of "console games" with some alarm and sadness actually...PC games started out so strong and there was so much promise. Then they updated Plug-it-to-TV-Blow-it-up-right-now-EZ sims and the whole thing went zitz up in a span of a decade or less. Now its all X-Box and PS4 kill-the-zombies or drive the fast car while pimping. Who wants to command Destroyers off Savo Island in a realistic naval wargame when you can blow up Vegas in a souped up car and a rocket launcher I guess :(
I hope somebody will still market decent boxed wargames...be back to reading rules and rolling dice.
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Now, for the most part, only Aces High remains as the last game standing and the combined population is still in decline.
That's BS
DCS World, IL-2 still has a devoted following while BoS is still in pre-release, and WT has a playerbase of thousands. The RoF forum is just as active as ours if not more, and isn't filled with posts about RoF dying.
Warbirds iirc was dead by the time that I started in '06 and FA was in decline/practically dead long before it closed in 2010.
The MMOs like WB, FA, and perhaps AH died because they were dinosaurs, weren't responding to rising expectations in fidelity, graphics, gameplay and immersion. Or because they weren't catering far enough the other way. AH stands in a middle ground between arcade and fidelity that no other game does, probably not to its benefit (i.e., I don't think it's serving a good niche, but rather no one wants a game like that). Games that are high fidelity or complete arcade seem to be doing fine. Even WT's full realism mode has more superficial fidelity and immersion, even if the flight model 'sucks' (which, realistically, how many of us can say one way or another?).
The idea that no one likes to play games that are hard anymore reflects the real generation gap problem with AH: it's full of senile old men who are too busy yelling 'get off my lawn!' to see the world around them.
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The idea that no one likes to play games that are hard anymore reflects the real generation gap problem with AH: it's full of senile old men who are too busy yelling 'get off my lawn!' to see the world around them.
:aok
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I've looked without much success but if we could start building a list of websites/forums for MMO games and start writing on them about Aces High and how great it is...
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I've looked without much success but if we could start building a list of websites/forums for MMO games and start writing on them about Aces High and how great it is...
They will laugh you right off the boards. For what ever reason they don't like it.
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I've looked without much success but if we could start building a list of websites/forums for MMO games and start writing on them about Aces High and how great it is...
...it wouldn't be any help.
The problem with AH isn't advertising, it's the actual game. Part of the problem is that the only people left have been playing forever and don't recognize the issues.
This is what happens when you show someone with interest in flight sims and MMO's (but dissatisfaction with the arcadeyness of WT) Aces High, based on experience:
Reactions, in order:
"Wow this game has really bad graphics"
"Why do all of the planes have the same sounds"
"I want to fly plane * (let's say Bf 110), it's my favorite -- why does it look like this, what is this model 15 years old? (Joke's on them, it is)"
"How do I control the radiator flaps, mixture etc.?"
"Oh."
"No, it's just that you said the game was pretty realistic."
"Is there just some sort of tutorial I can bang out for a while?"
'Do you want to try flying AH again?'
"Nah"
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We don't have the numbers HTC has to determine how many sign up for the 2 week free trial and then don't stay. However would it be bad to allow the Free players to live in early war for awhile since the population is so low? When they see the numbers in late war they may be intrigued enough to try a subscription. Give the fish a taste of the bait and they may end up in the boat. :aok
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"the twelve hour rule"
Without it, tons of players, -me included-, wouldnt play. Please, ur post is kinda right,
just dont try to fool ppl with flase facts. :salute
S.
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Not to increase customer base.
Wrong again. There was a suggestion about advertising on a Canadian dogfight type show. We did with in about 1week of the suggestion.
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Wrong again. There was a suggestion about advertising on a Canadian dogfight type show. We did with in about 1week of the suggestion.
Yes, this is true...it was what actually got me to try the game out...... :old:
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As of this very moment there are 1,504 people flying FSX: Steam Edition, 9,921 in Euro Truck Simulator 2, 3,073 playing Farming Simulator '15, 1,273 playing Train Simulator 2015, and even theHunter has 968 players.
So, I must refute the premise that simulations are on the decline. I mean 10,000 people driving trucks? 1,000 people sitting in tree stands?
There are 12,165 people playing War Thunder. Maybe what you want is F3 mode for the arcade players? I don't think that would make the core of AH subscribers very happy.
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maybe have an F3 arena for dogfighting? Well we already have the dueoling arena but there is no sight available that works in external
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The game takes patience, concentration, dedication, understanding, practice, practice, practice...and so many other things. Those who pick this game up right away and go nuclear are few and far between. It takes a mentor(s) and a lot of ppl generous enough to show you around and introduce you to so many different minute aspects for one to start to grasp everything; throw in the fact that your opponents are always ~10-1000x better than you, you will have to die A LOT.
Don't know if you all remember being a noob, but I'd hazard that's where the majority quit/come and go quietly. ACM is not easy, getting HO'd by guys that don't need to, being vulch/pick/bait to death before you even know what all that means...do you remember what it was like?
The students in my nursing cohort represent the spectrum of the younger target mass; they'd rather play some free game on their phone and write about garbage on twitter than learn anything difficult (with the exception of nursing ($))...my nephews represent the gaming age pop and they like killing fantasy/tastical mystical crap.
Maybe make a noobs arena with mods to help and represent some sorta even playing field?
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My generation is full of stupid dipshits.
No one wants to learn ANYTHING.
This is true, same here, hate the idea of "instant gratification" and "pay to win". (Hate my generation....)
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My generation is full of stupid dipshits.
No one wants to learn ANYTHING.
Same has been said about my generation. And any before that. Usually BS.
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Wrong again. There was a suggestion about advertising on a Canadian dogfight type show. We did with in about 1week of the suggestion.
I agree,as it was my suggestion and I saw the commercials!
What I dont understand is how players can complain,where else can you get this much entertainment for 15 bucks a month!
:salute
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The idea that no one likes to play games that are hard anymore reflects the real generation gap problem with AH: it's full of senile old men who are too busy yelling 'get off my lawn!' to see the world around them.
Spot. Freaking. On.
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Much has been said about the decline of the player base in Aces High. I think most of us can agree that. while nice and possibly overdue, new graphics aren't going to change anything, at least not more than temporarily.
Each of us can cite factors that have caused people to leave; the twelve hour rule, big maps, bases too easy or too hard to take... or overriding external factors; the economy, the aging of our community... I tend to believe the decline in population has more to do with external factors than gameplay dynamics. The reason I believe this is that at one point we had Aces High, Warbirds, Fighter Ace and IL2 all with thriving communities of their own. Now, for the most part, only Aces High remains as the last game standing and the combined population is still in decline. Certainly there's something much larger at play here than a simple side switching rule (I use that as an example only).
The following except from an interview with Dave Kaemmer of Papyrus Racing Games has stuck with me through the years (for those who aren't aware Papyrus was once the clear leader in racing simulations):
And now, Papyrus is no more, along with Vivendi Universal components Sierra and Impressions Games. Why? Clearly Vivendi felt it needed to undertake a little general housecleaning. But in the specific case of Papyrus, there was quite likely more to the story. Kaemmer has some strong feelings in this regard. "I think there were a number of factors that led to Papyrus' closure. Chief among them is that interest in simulations, a category somewhat different than most games, hasn't grown at the same rate as interest in games in general. Simulations are more difficult to market, since the fundamental enjoyment you get out of them is learning a difficult skill. People buying a toy--which is how people think of computer "games"-- apparently don't expect or want to master a difficult skill."
"The computer game business is really becoming a toy business, especially with the popularity of console gaming. That's not the right market for a simulation. To revisit the golf analogy, it's like trying to sell real golf clubs at a mini-golf pavilion. Certainly you would sell some, but too many of the people coming through to play mini-golf aren't interested in real golf--it's too difficult and time consuming. That's what's happening to simulations, I think. The game industry is saying, 'Look, people aren't buying very many of these golf clubs--can we make a cheaper bag? Plastic instead of leather? Can you make it easier to play golf? It's too hard, plus people have to walk too far.'"
"The real problem is that we're reaching the wrong customers. If Papyrus were to have dumbed down the experience in order to make a console game, they would have had no competitive advantage. There are a zillion driving "games" out there and many of them look really nice since the console budgets allow for a lot of flash. But none of them are true driving simulators, despite what they say. They don't need to be. They are being sold by the licenses. What Papyrus did that really nobody else did was make true simulations--you can really find out what racing is like with a Papyrus simulation. If you can do well in GPL or NR2003, you know how to drive a car at the limit."
Here's a link to the full article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/history-of-papyrus-racing-games/1100-6103365/
If you think of this in the context of the recent onslaught of free to play games that so many cite as low fidelity from a simulation standpoint but with astounding graphics it really starts to make sense.
I don't think a ton of advertising by HT is going to make more than a short term difference either under the current business model. It will simply bring people in only to leave soon after and wouldn't be a good use of capital for HT. I do think some type of free to play element would help. The old H2H arenas fostered some new blood, particularly when the F2P players hands were forced when they were taken away.
What the game really needs is the reuniting and support of it's core customer base. I don't play much anymore but even when I was struggling financially I still sent in my $15/mo. and still do. If all our old friends returned we'd once again have a thriving community. If, on the other hand, we leave because the numbers are low or a rule is changed not to our liking the game is doomed to spiral into oblivion and another great aspect of the computer simulation environment will be lost.
I think you have a great point. I also believe that the people that I know that have left, left for one or more of three reasons and I have spoken with them and they are not ever coming back.
1. Their ideas weren't answered Yes or No with any real discourse. Some ideas were great, some ok and some terrible. There is nothing wrong with discussing ideas, no matter how poor they may be. Customers should be made to feel like what they are: Customers. None of us can be BIG customers here. We all pay the same rate but one has to ask: are all treated like customers.
2. Zero discourse on gameplay mechanics.
3. Numbers have jacked gameplay on specific maps. See #2. No discourse.
3a. Some just don't want to make time for the game. Started as kids and now theyre busy. Too busy.
3b. One or two are on their second marriages, lol. They damn sure aren't gonna fly again.
Some felt shunned, some felt like rebelling and got punished for it (rightfully so in most cases) some felt that others were punished too harshly and they fell on their sword for it. Before someone blows about how smart or dumb that might be, save your breath. Its not up to anyone else so no one else's opinion matters, nor will it convince them. It doesn't matter whether the punishment was viewed as being harsh enough or too harsh. It only matters what the customers that left think. Sad truth is: Every one of them that I talk to still love this game. That alone is a testament to how 1, 2 and 3 affected them.
I can't bug them anymore. I've already pushed them enough. Besides, HTC said this is the natural evolution of this game. Play hard, play harder, get bored, leave.
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61 years old so I'm no kid.
Sure you are.
Now get off my lawn.
- oldman
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Isn't it said that the adjustments made at halftime by the better coaches are what win the game? these adjustments seem like those that keep players not attract players, relatively minor by comparison, big to existing players but which one is going to get anyone's attn. outside the game.
The world of multiplayer gaming is making better halftime adjustments and its grown by leaps and bounds, hasn't HT said he wants to remain a small company, there is a danger alone in that line of thinking
Learning curve bah, if you really like a game you'll do what's necessary to win and I don't mean buying gadgets, I mean putting in the time, everyone wants to win if they like a game.
I had to throw some OU football legendary coaching in here for this:
Barry Switzer's Rules for his coaching staff from the Book, "The Winning Edge"
1. Coaches NEVER win ballgames. Ever. Players make plays, players win ballgames and coaches watch.
1. NEVER coach caution into my players. Ever.
2. Don't ever try to teach any one of my players everything you know. They can't digest it and you don't have the time if youre doing your job right.
Coaches can make any adjustment they want at halftime but they can never execute those adjustments: Players do.
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I've been playing off and on since the AW days. Kids, family life and two jobs have hindered me from playing more. Here's my take...
New terrain! New graphics! Who cares? I'd bet most play for the either the historical aspects or for the challenge. Nice graphics are great but geez...
Lack of updates. Even though I don't currently have an active account, I check the main page of the website a couple of times a week for updates. It's been almost 3 months. That is absolutely absurd. Come on, throw us a bone before everyone loses interest.
Like others, I've tried to get young people interested. My oldest grandson showed an initial interest, but it's hard to keep a young 'un interested when you fly and fly and fly looking for a fight. You see a flashing base and go there. Is it a bomber at 25,000 ft. or a fighter at tree top level? I know, I know...the current generation. But if the game doesn't appeal to them in at least some small way, it will die.
I don't frequent the forums much so forgive me if this idea has already been mentioned. How about some sort of offline AI so new folks can practice before wading in to the arenas? Please don't tell me to DL this map or that scenario. I've tried and it's confusing and pretty much a pain in the ass.
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Same has been said about my generation. And any before that. Usually BS.
Come visit a few of our schools and you will see. At least that's how it is here.
I'm sure now it is no longer BS.
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I'm sure now it is no longer BS.
Lol yes it is, give it 3 or 4 more years and you'll come around.
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I had to quit playing AH because I got bitter listening to other finns drinking 18 yo whiskeys or bottles of expensive wine and all I had was cheap market beer. After some time I just couldn't take it. :bhead
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New terrain! New graphics! Who cares? I'd bet most play for the either the historical aspects or for the challenge. Nice graphics are great but geez...
The graphics issue is HUGE for anyone trying out the game for the first time. The first impression left is what either sparks the interest or not. Lord knows that they're not going to have too much fun the first days being raped by the vets.
I still think AH should have the chance for offline practice missions WB style. That would enable people to try it and practice before subscribing in order to survive more than a minute on MA. I think that a large part of AH success in the beginning was due to the influx of experienced flight sim players from other dying games. That road has been walked, now it should attract noobs.
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Lol yes it is, give it 3 or 4 more years and you'll come around.
Either it's just my area or is my generation really not that bad?
If anything I go with my area. :rolleyes:
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Either it's just my area or is my generation really not that bad?
If anything I go with my area. :rolleyes:
Ohh how it was to be young :cheers:
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Ohh how it was to be young :cheers:
You are four years older than me. :headscratch:
It's the people I must be around to for me to make those assumptions. :rolleyes:
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Well, I just got back, sort of any way.
Having used only Macintosh for the past 6 or so years I haven't been able to play AH, nor have I really had any interest in it as I've been up to other things. A few weeks ago I decided to build a new PC though so thought I'd get back to AH and at least try it again and of course this thread caught my attention.
Some MIGHT remember me, most won't. I played AH from the first day of the open beta until, well, for a long time, many years and I've put countless hours in it.
I have started it up and flown some offline so far and the thing is is it feels and looks exactly the same as it did 5 or 6 years ago (offline at least). This is in part good and in part bad, of course I like the fact that I remember everything but it also surprised me some that almost nothing has changed, at least not on the surface. We will see once I get online again, it'll be sometime after new years eve.
I did see some new planes (surprisingly few) and some new vehicles but fewer then I expected. I remember when Hitechcreations used to spurt out new things and new updates, that kept the interest sparking. But like I said, we'll see when I get online again.
I will say this how ever, I don't think a declining player base has to do with a too steep learning curve of too much time needed for the game. Of course many people are just looking for some quick action, easy to learn, great looking games many are also looking for something really competative. I'm playing Eve Online for example, that's probably the game with the highest learning curve I've ever seen, and might very well be one of the games in the world which are hardest to master and still there are A LOT of people playing it, if you enter during prime time there may be over 40,000 people online, enter during the slow times and there are still around 10,000 people playing in one way or another and this is a game that really takes years to master most of the time.
What Eve online does right is very many things, one of them, and one that I felt HTC was missing by the time I quit last time, was the lack of updates, not only to the game but to the webpage as well. Here Eve Online is a real inspiration, they release "major" updates almost every month adding many new feutures and other updates. They always keep the player base updated on what is happening, communicating and even asking players questions as to wether "is this somehting you want or how do you want it?"
I think an active communication from the company making the product is more important than anything else, closely followed by rappid updates. They don't need to be major, but they do need to come often when it's a game you pay monthly for. Afterall, paying monthly means you not only pay for the servers but also for an evolving game. Otherwise one might as well spring for a $50 game and be done with it, at least one does't expect many updates part from maybe bug fixes with those games.
Another issue might very well be the competition of really high end flight simulations such as the DCS series but that's just a guess...
Having said all this, AH was one of the first games I downloaded and installed as it's been my favorite game for many years and it still sparks and interest. Wether that interest will be kept alive or not is another question.
Well, just my take on it, so far.
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Hiya Wilbus
Remember this? :D
Wilbus's Reply
I did not fly the blue nosed jug
it maneuvers like a slug
a porcupine I'd rather hug
then fly the silver, blue nosed jug
I did not fly that allied ride
I did not could not change my side
those evil boys conspired and lied
I did not fly that allied ride
I would not fly that monstrous bird
never mind what you have heard
I could not to it e'er be lured
I would not fly that monstrous bird
I did not would not fly that craft
Its much too silly,just too daft
your brains they must have shifted aft
to think that I would fly that craft
The Thunderbolt is not my plane
do you think I am insane?
the whole issue is quite inane
the Thunderbolt is not my plane
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I will keep supported this game and will never stop. Been here sent 2008 that's not along time and have not had a lot time in 2 years to enjoy it with the guys I like but knowing I can come home and do it is comfort to me. Like I have said to the wife and kids and grandkids it my 14.99. Marry Christmas everybody and Happy New Years :salute :cheers:
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Some MIGHT remember me, most won't.
I remember you. A hearty welcome back!
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I love AH. To me, it is the greatest game ever created.
I would like to see active area of fighting scaled somehow to number of players (so that we don't have times with huge maps and one guy here, one guy 100 miles away over there, etc.) I know that was sort of tried with capture order on bases, and it wasn't a success. I know that lots of people claim to prefer big maps. But flying when not many people are up gets very thin on the action. There must be some way to have smaller maps or smaller active areas with there aren't many people up.
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Wilbus - wow that's a blast from the past, welcome back, great time for you to return, and I agree 100% with your post.
Wilbus, were you not famous for some of the most popular HTC/AH memes of your picture you put up? Ha ha ha. I hope you still have it around, great times.
Regarding the OP and the entire premise here - of course everyone supports HTC, that's what most folks are doing here playing the game, aren't they? That support doesn't absolve HTC of their responsibility for the current state of things. Trying to blame declining numbers or a declining game on this outside factor or that one, be it hard times, complex gaming, or aging players, just doesn't wash IMO. Not when you take Eve as Wilbus explained, or Star Citizen as an example. SC is just as complex a flight model as we have here in terms of combat, more so, as there is another factor (no gravity) and another axis of rotation involved. Eve is 5x more complex in terms of features and knowledge/ability required just to even play, let along thrive.
I think the stated fact that updates really slowed over the years, not to mention a much more hostile attitude towards customers - ya ya, I know, but I'll happily put up some copied quotes responding to players in various situations here, and put up similar situations from RSI dealing with players, and it becomes pretty clear that the attitude, policy, and vibe is far, far different. Instead of hostility, secrecy and being stonewalled, RSI for example goes the other route, with weekly, even daily video updates on the state of things form the owner/CEO and other creators, as well as a lot more positive interaction.
I realize HTC is a lot smaller company, smaller now than when it began even, but who is responsible for that at the end of the day? It's a choice, reducing the amount of updates and attention put into a product, and the decline in popularity and increase in complaints is a direct result of this. Since the merging of blue and orange, there has been very little change or updates added to the game - according to Lusche/statsman, nearly 4 years with only a single small adjustment to how the strat system works. This is unacceptable in today's gaming world. There are smaller boutique companies out there the same size or even smaller than HTC, with less talent and ability IMO, who are putting out a TON more content updates and the like.
Of course, the immediate response is "but HTC is currently feverishly working on a new update", which is true. The problem is that it took a long, long time for this to begin, as well as only a very few players have any idea of the state of things with it. Where is the enthusiasm from HTC? Again, I compare HTC to RSI in this regard - from HTC we get "you'll see something when there's something to show, until then leave me alone" type of responses, at RSI we get "we're working these new features, x, y, and z, this is how cool they'll be and how they'll work". I challenge anyone to go to their BBS and find negative posters/complainers, and look at how they are dealt with compared to here. It's night and day.
IMO it wouldn't take that large of an adjustment in policy so far as the game and customer relations to win many detractors over. From the rumblings I've heard, the new version should be a lot of fun, with not just new graphics, but some new features as well. It's just a matter of a bit more positive approach, and IMO HTC will be just fine, and #s will take care of themselves.
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We lack the data HTC must have to point directly at the demographics.........
The revenue model is very old.
There is undoubtedly a growth in F2P game models across all platforms.
The PC as a gaming platform for the coming decades is under considerable threat
There is undoubtedly a decline in player numbers.......
The requirement for good graphics are unfortunately a base line for continued business IMO.......
I doubt that good graphics form the hook that keep players playing
I suspect that poor/dated graphics contribute to (newish) players leaving or not staying.
Game play is all IMO.... and access to it!
I believe there should be base level F2P rides that permit role play and game play within the paid arenas. (Jeeps, M3's, Storch, C47 ....indeed some purpose built rides just for F2P{Truck, towed artillery, Po2?}) Ideally these become "targets" for paid players or at least they should be used in a way that enriches gameplay for paid up players.
I believe the game play model should never deny players access to rides......
Change Eny to reflect Perks required..... don't say no....... just up the price.
Look to terrain models to reduce the need/motivation/ease of field porkage (being unable to fly from the field closest to the action because your hangers are destroyed is demotivating)
Look to terrain models (and objectives) to move combat away from the airfield (being shot down at the end of the runway closest to the action is demotivating)
I believe there should be an easy route to combat..... even if this means breaking some previously held taboos ( Modelling of HQ, Radar, AI, Auto Missions etc)
I believe there should be multiple routes to "success" ( there are now .... but much more "objective" orientated)
Most importantly there should be other revenue streams......
I believe that the perk system should have a massive overhaul.
It should be a deposit "currency" in constant use within game (not just for the odd ride that may induce game play mis balance)
It should be such that risk = reward re perks deposited and earned.
It should be possible to buy perks through the player account....... (the revenue bit)
because whilst change is good........... it usually requires investment.
From a player interface/communication perspective I think there should be more "news". I realise that HTC is basically a "small business model" with limited funds for a massive media presence. However I do believe that there should be much more "news".
It is very exciting to be at the birth of a new gaming enterprise and experience the various updates and changes underway as it grows. Eventually it gets to such a size that "maintenance" starts to take up much more resources than "development" and perceived development slows down. (with it also the excitement quotient also declines) So I do believe that the "development" should be "bigged up" with plenty of "news".
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Papyrus racing was an exciting experience. As time went on, the amount of time you had to invest in tuning the setup grew exponentially if you wanted to win online races. Sometimes it was the first person to find the weakness of the simulation(not hacking albeit I would guess there was a small few) then capitalize on that with a trick setup. These few found winning and attention they got more important than enjoying the experience of a simulation. The average player just could not keep up with the time money some spent to win by a small minority much like the real world racing.
NASCAR should have forced the licensing of two games. One a game that looked like a simulation and the other a game based strongly on a simulation. The gamers would have left the simulation based game as the simulation pinched down on its weak modeling areas and went to the game loosely based on a simulation where they could dominate the rest.
The current HQ problem is a good example. It is just gamers attack on a weakness in the simulation to get attention. Fix that and I am sure they will invest their time in finding another weakness until they get bored and move on.
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I believe there should be base level F2P rides that permit role play and game play within the paid arenas. (Jeeps, M3's, Storch, C47 ....indeed some purpose built rides just for F2P{Truck, towed artillery, Po2?}) Ideally these become "targets" for paid players or at least they should be used in a way that enriches gameplay for paid up players.
I believe the game play model should never deny players access to rides......
Change Eny to reflect Perks required..... don't say no....... just up the price.
Look to terrain models to reduce the need/motivation/ease of field porkage (being unable to fly from the field closest to the action because your hangers are destroyed is demotivating)
Look to terrain models (and objectives) to move combat away from the airfield (being shot down at the end of the runway closest to the action is demotivating)
I believe there should be an easy route to combat..... even if this means breaking some previously held taboos ( Modelling of HQ, Radar, AI, Auto Missions etc)
I believe there should be multiple routes to "success" ( there are now .... but much more "objective" orientated)
:aok :aok :aok
I absolutely agree with the idea of F2P with limited plane/vehicle selection. This could be one single type of vehicle/plane from each category (one fighter, one attack, one bomber etc) instead of free 2 weeks trial. My dream (that will propably never happen because of the resources/code issues) is that there would be free to play infantry game built over AH. The games like ww2ol and OFP (series) give this sense of immersion where you actually sit in the storage bay of some transport and then jump as ordered - only to be taken in the middle of combat. This would be huge! Think only how popular the Band of Brothers was and still is! Not to mention that F2P infantry guys would most propably soon rise their heads from the trenches and see dogfights going on, wishing they too had a plane to fight with :lol
But to keep things in perspective. I won't be expecting that any time soon if at all. Just a dream. But in general I agree with above comments.
I do love this game as it is and I too keep paying for it until the servers run dry. But the current decline in player base is worrying me.
On the other hand the finnish "front" of the game has recovered pretty nicely. We have much more active players at the moment than we had the same time last year. Old players have come back and new blood has been recruited to play with us as well. It is a great big bunch of friends having a good time, arranging meetings and capturing bases while drinking 18 years old whiskey :)
I only wish this experience could be transplanted to newcomers, it would be an instant hook! :)
For me, no game platform can top that!
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Sure you are.
Now get off my lawn.
- oldman
Are you the same Oldman that used to fly a D9 in AW RR a million years ago before Mute dragged me off to FR, Mute and I grew up together I really am that old, and you're probably no spring chicken either
My first squad in AW RR was Hogan's Heroes, lol with Hogan and Burma and I think HB. (Mims)
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Wrong again. There was a suggestion about advertising on a Canadian dogfight type show. We did with in about 1week of the suggestion.
Well I guess it just hasn't worked.
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For funding would about a "crowd source" campaign like Kickstarter, etc. It would double as marketing to new clients.
When an airshow is held and 250,000 people show in some backwater place like Podunk, Iowa....okay, Nellis AFB, we've got a ready market.
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On the other hand the finnish "front" of the game has recovered pretty nicely. We have much more active players at the moment than we had the same time last year. Old players have come back and new blood has been recruited to play with us as well. It is a great big bunch of friends having a good time, arranging meetings and capturing bases while drinking 18 years old whiskey :)
Could you please extend that magic to the general AH population as well? :)
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Could you please extend that magic to the general AH population as well? :)
You can find it in the stores. It is called Highland Park 18 years old, but Lagavulin 16 years do pretty much the same thing as well :cheers:
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You can find it in the stores. It is called Highland Park 18 years old, but Lagavulin 16 years do pretty much the same thing as well :cheers:
I doubt HTC will provide a free bottle of that stuff when signing up for AH
Or do you mean make them drunk first, then talk them into joining AH? :noid
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Or do you mean make them drunk first, then talk them into joining AH? :noid
Thats how we got kiaku enlisted to our ranks!
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/14372394195_87afab7e72.jpg)
Look how happy sod he is. We could almost take advant... talk him into flying AH!!!
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All I can say is this is a great game, as far as flight modeling and gameplay go. The complaints seem to be coming from those who just want to dogfight or get quick action. That may be part of the game, but, IMHO, not the main criteria for a good game. The game is multi-faceted, and has learning curves for each one. This is a HUGE plus, as it means you have to apply yourself in order to improve. Nothing wrong with that. It SHOULD be that way, there are plenty of worthless games out there that require little learning and no talent. Keep em. I have what I want in this game, as many others probably agree. If more who want an easy game do leave, and I have to pay more, fine. Making the game easier, or more tuned to one facet or the other will kill the spirit and fun of the game. If your attention span is so short, or too many people "run away" or whatever for you....go. Don't let the proverbial hangar doors hit you in the six on your way out!
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Here's my take...
Been playing AH for as long as I can remember, when I first started out the player base was a lot larger than it is now. I took a long break due to military service and now that I've been back for a while I can see all the pros and cons to our current system.
Biggest problem I see is the MA. The MA is nothing more than an arcade, 3 countries, 3 separate hordes trying to take enough bases faster than the other horde.
AH needs an objective, a real war. Went into the SEA for SEC Sunday, there was 12 of us at the peak. How can thins like that not attract more people? FSO, SEC, snapshots, those are what make AH the greatest game I've bet played, sadly they are all run by the customers though. The MA needs to be designed more like the SEA arenas.
Set up two main arenas, European theater and Pacific theater. That way there is only axis vs allies, I mean if not for that what are we playing for? I don't want to shoot down other 190s in the Main Arenas I want to fight against Allied aircraft. Granted there are plants of Spit 16 dweebs but it's not the same. We need real world maps in the Mains, 2 sides, 1 war.
If people logged on and saw the allies were bombing Berlin or the Germans were bombing London they would be more intrigue to play and fight. It gives the game a certain realism, immersion, if not for that then go play IL2.
IMHO the only thing we need to the game other than more frequent additions of historical (necessary) A/C and updates to those A/C, is 2 arenas, real historical arenas. These arenas with have rotational maps, western front, eastern front, pacific, hell lets get Africa and Italy involved, WW2 was enormous lets being It back to life.
Just my .02
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Copprhed got it right.
Point being for my comment above: let us not be so serious about everything. Let's instead open that bottle of Highland Park and enjoy ourselves and a good company in the air. We finns call AH a "friday night bar" and it keeps our wives happy. U see, ole beards stay home by their puters instead of going to the factual bar. More wine, less whine. Thats how all good things stay alive. But the constant arguing, constant peeing contests and drama queen mentality, especially considering the decline in the amount of player base do not help. It becomes a sort of self fulfilling prophecy. Players get spooked and start to look for alternatives. New players take one glance at the forum and decide it is not worth the effort to start learning a game that is "evidently" dying.
We have a good thing going on here.
Why pee on our cerials... ?
Still, suggestions and open discussion have never failed anybody either.
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These are my top 5 things that would fix the "fun" and add "more players" to the game.
1. Smaller MA maps, or MA maps with bases that are no more than 15-17 miles apart. Fights and battles would escalate, ganging would decrease, base capturing would be more strategic, and it would be quicker to find fights and have fun. This would eliminate complaints about the 12 hour rule because fights would be much easier to find.
2. Set H2H back up. Or, give players a chance to play H2H for 3 months and then give them the payment screen. This way players can take advantage of the game and learn to play it, only in small 8 player arenas. After 3 months you will get the players who are very interested in still playing, and these players will have a semi understanding of the game so they won't feel lost in the MA. H2H was a huge impact into why I enjoyed this game so much. 2 weeks just isn't enough to time to convince players their 15 a month is worth it.
3. Make HQ more challenging to destroy and create a new functionality for it. What many others have said about the radar and darbars and dots on the map are true. Change the strats to the old times.
4. Graphics obviously, which you guys are working on, so that's cool.
5. Better strategic marketing of the game. I'd show a TV commercial but maybe put it on different channels rather than just the military channel. History channel, comedy central, Spike, FX, disovery, channels like that, or even as a youtube commercial if its affordable. You will capture a different audience, but most people don't really watch or have the military channel. I'd also have one of our fellow community members design and create the commercial.
Only thing I disagree with baldeagle about is that players have too many life events going on. That is a small figure. The gameplay has run stale do to small number of fights, and long flights to bases that take 15 min only to find no one upping or a 190 who doesn't even want to fight. Then ganing occurs because your friendlies dont want to fly that far again and you get stuck fighting the 8 enemies that just have upped. Shorter distances to feilds would excite gameplay and create better fights.
The darbars are poor representations of what is actually going on. I won't up if I see 8 green people at my base but see a tiny red darbar. If the darbar where to look larger I may up a plane. Sometimes I just dont think it's accurate. I see a darbar that looks small and then see 7-8 enemy planes coming in. It should be larger. But these are things I notice and on a map with far away bases, it makes it a huge decision whether to up and hopefully find a fight after 15 min of flying (or get ganged because friendlies dont want to fly that far) or to not up and wait for the dar to get bigger somewhere else.
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Well, I just got back, sort of any way.
Having used only Macintosh for the past 6 or so years I haven't been able to play AH, nor have I really had any interest in it as I've been up to other things. A few weeks ago I decided to build a new PC though so thought I'd get back to AH and at least try it again and of course this thread caught my attention.
Some MIGHT remember me, most won't. I played AH from the first day of the open beta until, well, for a long time, many years and I've put countless hours in it.
I have started it up and flown some offline so far and the thing is is it feels and looks exactly the same as it did 5 or 6 years ago (offline at least). This is in part good and in part bad, of course I like the fact that I remember everything but it also surprised me some that almost nothing has changed, at least not on the surface. We will see once I get online again, it'll be sometime after new years eve.
I did see some new planes (surprisingly few) and some new vehicles but fewer then I expected. I remember when Hitechcreations used to spurt out new things and new updates, that kept the interest sparking. But like I said, we'll see when I get online again.
I will say this how ever, I don't think a declining player base has to do with a too steep learning curve of too much time needed for the game. Of course many people are just looking for some quick action, easy to learn, great looking games many are also looking for something really competative. I'm playing Eve Online for example, that's probably the game with the highest learning curve I've ever seen, and might very well be one of the games in the world which are hardest to master and still there are A LOT of people playing it, if you enter during prime time there may be over 40,000 people online, enter during the slow times and there are still around 10,000 people playing in one way or another and this is a game that really takes years to master most of the time.
What Eve online does right is very many things, one of them, and one that I felt HTC was missing by the time I quit last time, was the lack of updates, not only to the game but to the webpage as well. Here Eve Online is a real inspiration, they release "major" updates almost every month adding many new feutures and other updates. They always keep the player base updated on what is happening, communicating and even asking players questions as to wether "is this somehting you want or how do you want it?"
I think an active communication from the company making the product is more important than anything else, closely followed by rappid updates. They don't need to be major, but they do need to come often when it's a game you pay monthly for. Afterall, paying monthly means you not only pay for the servers but also for an evolving game. Otherwise one might as well spring for a $50 game and be done with it, at least one does't expect many updates part from maybe bug fixes with those games.
Another issue might very well be the competition of really high end flight simulations such as the DCS series but that's just a guess...
Having said all this, AH was one of the first games I downloaded and installed as it's been my favorite game for many years and it still sparks and interest. Wether that interest will be kept alive or not is another question.
Well, just my take on it, so far.
Of course I remember you. Hope to see you in the MA :salute
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Some MIGHT remember me, most won't.
Wilbus! Glad to see that you're going to be coming back. <S>
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Thats how we got kiaku enlisted to our ranks!
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/14372394195_87afab7e72.jpg)
Look how happy sod he is. We could almost take advant... talk him into flying AH!!!
:x
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We lack the data HTC must have to point directly at the demographics.........
The revenue model is very old.
There is undoubtedly a growth in F2P game models across all platforms.
This quote is from HiTech about the F2P business model being used for AH.
If I was ever to do a WOT type payment system, I sure would not choose a realism base WWII aircraft to do it with.
HiTech
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In all honesty Bald Eagle, I cannot recommend Aces High in its current form to anyone or try to bring back
old friends and pilots to it.
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And bingo....some great ideas!
Let me say that I get so testy with AH for the simple reason that I love the "game" and grow very frustrated with what is happening. Any product needs to improve, whether cars, houses or clothes. For all of complaints I do appreciate the game and worry it will suffer the fate of other firms that do not keep up with a rapidly evolving market.
To copperheads point, I am very happy to join a mission that lasts 90 minutes. I remember Swoops would set up his Epic Missions that would involve 30+ flights of buffs with dozens of escorts and "the horde" would up mostly German Iron and try to bust the Epic Mission at 27k feet. For something like that I am very happy to spend 15-20 minutes gaining alt. We no longer have that environment. Thus, we either adjust maps, airstarts, etc to incent that behaviour or flash-bang the marketing plan to get back to those numbers.
Also, ideas around creating incentives for squad action. I remember Loose Deuce and The Few seeming to meet almost every day at 15oohrs somewhere in the MA. I think they can be recreated though it will take change. Many great minds on here and the customer is always right. Either the customer get what they want or they walk and play some Adam and Eve game, or whatever.
:salute the hardwork of creating AH and what HiTech does now. Push hard to the next level or die!
boo
PS The thought about creating a European and Pacific Theater/map will likely be met with 'we already have the other arenas' though don't say that. Let's think it through. When I see a lone F4U circling a base looking for a fight I am happy to up a Niki to try and provide a realistic fight; a K4, I up a spit. I think many sticks would be happy to try and create those real world match-ups in the MA.
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Makayla was sick today, not bad, but enough to stay home, so I stayed home....
I entered the room, looked at one of our new maps, looked at the attacks going on. Nothing "fun". Sat thinking about uping a B29 set and coming back... Did neither and logged... I love this game.. I think it's great, so what made me log... I don't even know... Player numbers were super low cuz it was 10am Monday morning... Map still had close action fighting...
If I could say one thing on the subject, I think sub #'s would go up a lot if we set up at Oshkosh.. I've seen some pretty sh!+¥ games, ohh "sims" as they call them in the booths.
I mean 100,000+ people who all love warbirds and flying... It's silly we are not there...
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We have had people in this thread stating that Hitech does not listen or care about player suggestions. This is absolutely not true! I have seen many suggestions and requests by players that were implemented. One of them was my own. I have also seen a lot of suggestions that simply would not work. Hitech knows it wouldn't work, usually because he's tried it before, so those suggestions are rejected.
One complaint is that we don't hear enough from Hitech or anyone else at HTC. This is one thing I would like to see more of. I would like to hear more from the folks at HTC. However, I can understand why we don't hear more from them. It seems that many times when someone from HTC chimes in on a subject, they get an argument. Suggestions are good. Questions are good. Arguments are not.
I, for one, will continue to play and support this game. Part of that support is to play in such a way that is beneficial to the game and the community of players, and not whining about some rule that I don't like (ENY).
Thank you and Salute to Hitech and crew for all the fun I'm having. :salute :rock
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Hello Wilbus :cheers:
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If I could say one thing on the subject, I think sub #'s would go up a lot if we set up at Oshkosh.. I've seen some pretty sh!+¥ games, ohh "sims" as they call them in the booths.
I mean 100,000+ people who all love warbirds and flying... It's silly we are not there...
This, IMHO, would be the best advertising HTC could do. Maybe even set up a special arena for it. Make sure you have folks who will be friendly to newbies (Me! Me! Pick Me!) The logistics of setting up the computer equipment and network connection might be a little daunting. But you have target audience for your product right there.
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I mean 100,000+ people who all love warbirds and flying... It's silly we are not there...
A perfect example, Do you know I have done this very thing in the past? Do you know what the ROI ? Do you know we have run adds in air show programs? Do you know what the ROI is?
HiTech
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A week of flying aces High............
Tuesday, Squad night
Friday, FSO's
Saturdays, Scenario (Coming in January)
Sunday, SEC, (Sunday European Campaign
Plus the occasional "This day in History" (like the Dec.7th Pearl Harbor event)
And yes I play in the MA's too!. When I log in to the MA, I come with zero expectations. I pick a plane and take off. Sometimes I have a specific task or target in mind but many times I am just flying toward an area that I'm guessing will be the next area to find some action. I'm never ever disappointed, sometimes yes, there are periods of time without a lot of action but never "no" action.
Loggin in to look at the map and then logging out because there isn't enough? Really? how many of you guys are doing that? I see a whole bunch of you guys saying that's what you do. If you would just log in, that would make one more player to add to the excitement, and if all of you did it, there would be nothing to complain about.
A big part of this game is the friendships you develop. If you are not in a squad, you are missing out. Really missing the best part of the game. Choose one. Just jump in and go for it. You will know if it is a good fit in a short period of time. If it is not, say your goodbye's and choose a different one. If you truly cannot find what you want after many tries, make your own.
I do recommend people to this game. I think it should be their choice to like it and stay or not. If you are not letting people find out for themselves by just saying "try it", you aren't being fair to your friends or the game and those of us who haven't gotten old and grumpy and love to play it still after so many years.
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I became confused flying the Ar234 and couldn't drop my ordinance because I had not deselected the RTO. I made a suggestion that it might be nice to have that info included with the calibration display in the bombsight. Practically, almost immediately, HiTech responded "done". To my amazement it was put into the next update that same day I believe. He also added salvo and delay info as well, stating that it was merely a few lines of coad to do so.
When your job is writing thousands and thousands of lines of coad, even just a few lines is not always such a small feat.
:cheers: Happy Holidays HTC staff, I am very excited about what the New Year will bring.
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Loggin in to look at the map and then logging out because there isn't enough? Really? how many of you guys are doing that? I see a whole bunch of you guys saying that's what you do. If you would just log in, that would make one more player to add to the excitement, and if all of you did it, there would be nothing to complain about.
Unfortunately, this is illusory wishful thinking and not how the things work past a certain point. Especially if you are here for true massive multiplayer and are looking for battles, not duels.
As an example, I logged in this early afternoon with about 60 players online with more than half of them in tower. There was not a single battle happening anywhere on my fronts. The friendlies were scattered one by one here and there, enemies where absent from our front lines.
Out of desperation. I did something unusual (for me) and did fly low to two different airfields in a EW plane. I once saw a 15K La ignoring me for some unknown reason (must have been Snailman), and on one base I was shot at by a manned ack.
Wow, I really did add to the excitement, did I?
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I left because life will be complicated until the summer of 2016. Then if the creek don't rise I will be back.
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Most players stay playing AH because i play the game :old:
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Most players stay playing AH because i play the game :old:
That's exactly why I play! :rock
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I wonder what the ROI would be on extending the "two-week free" trial play to one month free, and allowing former two weekers to come back and try it again. It may get more people into the arenas, enough to reach a critical mass and make it more fun for far all the players.
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Unfortunately, this is illusory wishful thinking and not how the things work past a certain point. Especially if you are here for true massive multiplayer and are looking for battles, not duels.
As an example, I logged in this early afternoon with about 60 players online with more than half of them in tower. There was not a single battle happening anywhere on my fronts. The friendlies were scattered one by one here and there, enemies where absent from our front lines.
Out of desperation. I did something unusual (for me) and did fly low to two different airfields in a EW plane. I once saw a 15K La ignoring me for some unknown reason (must have been Snailman), and on one base I was shot at by a manned ack.
Wow, I really did add to the excitement, did I?
This is exactly what I described in my post earlier is it not. See I know what I'm talking about! :old: ... Well sometimes.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Last nite, Large map, about 150 total players. within 20 minutes of logging on, our HQ is dropped. Tons of our bases flashing but everyone I upped from I found high alt bombers that would take me forever to catch. HQ downtime was 150 minutes. took us almost as long to resupp it ! 30 minutes later it was down again. logged, went to bed, :mad:
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Last nite, Large map, about 150 total players. within 20 minutes of logging on, our HQ is dropped. Tons of our bases flashing but everyone I upped from I found high alt bombers that would take me forever to catch. HQ downtime was 150 minutes. took us almost as long to resupp it ! 30 minutes later it was down again. logged, went to bed, :mad:
Happened to all 3 countries repeatedly last night. During the time I played I saw 4 HQ's going down in total. This feature is being utilized very much on this particular map, probably because of the huge downtimes due to the almost constantly low percentage cities.
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Last nite, Large map, about 150 total players. within 20 minutes of logging on, our HQ is dropped. Tons of our bases flashing but everyone I upped from I found high alt bombers that would take me forever to catch. HQ downtime was 150 minutes. took us almost as long to resupp it ! 30 minutes later it was down again. logged, went to bed, :mad:
Happened to all 3 countries repeatedly last night. During the time I played I saw 4 HQ's going down in total. This feature is being utilized very much on this particular map, probably because of the huge downtimes due to the almost constantly low percentage cities.
Hopefully this will be happening when I log in tonight. It only really takes one dedicated interceptor pilot to stop this. I really enjoy this type of action. You have to be up there and waiting. Diving in to intercept works pretty dang good when you develop those skills. Taking off at the last second hoping to climb and catch them and attacking their 6, not so much.
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A perfect example, Do you know I have done this very thing in the past? Do you know what the ROI ? Do you know we have run adds in air show programs? Do you know what the ROI is?
HiTech
How could we, you never share that information. Nor the results of the marketing focus groups that your marketing department has developed to help guide you with the best strategy for marking.
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A perfect example, Do you know I have done this very thing in the past? Do you know what the ROI ? Do you know we have run adds in air show programs? Do you know what the ROI is?
HiTech
HiTech in no way did I want to say something that would be, we'll upsetting to you.. No I personally don't know that you have been there OR what a ROI is. With that being said. If it was implied that I'm not on your side I'm sorry.
I am.
Maybe this is what a large % of our players don't understand. I know you do things, I know you look into probably every cost effective way to sell your product.
And I also know you don't share that with people. Most likely for good reason. But Maybe sometimes it would be helpful to explain some things. Mabe outside help ( a bunch of people from around the world who love your game) could help if we did know at least some things.. Or not I don't have the answer and won't ever claim to.
Or maybe not.
So what's an ROI :headscratch:
And Oshkosh is not just an airshow it is THE airshow :banana:
Heck i bet we could get a few local boys to volunteer to show people the game. I know I'll be there again this year.
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So what's an ROI :headscratch:
Return Of Investment :old:
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I love your enthusiam. You've been around since 2012? Back in the day....you have no idea though keep up the good cheer. There is a reason those who have been around a long time are so very concerned.
:airplane: How do you know he has been around since 2012? The date on this forum means nothing. I have been a steady paying member since 2005 but did not join this forum till 2008. :banana:
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Return Of Investment :old:
well Duh lol<=== to me, I is just an envelope maker.. Well that sucks that the ROI is not enough. To me a complete moron on the subject it seems crazy, especially when I see a booth with nothing but moms quilted blankets and only one has WWII aircraft on it.
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How could we, you never share that information. Nor the results of the marketing focus groups that your marketing department has developed to help guide you with the best strategy for marking.
Nor is it your business Traveler.
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Nor is it your business Traveler.
Are you implying paying $14.95 doesn't give us a seat on the board of directors? It's an outrage, I say! :old:
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Are you implying paying $14.95 doesn't give us a seat on the board of directors? It's an outrage, I say! :old:
so true :old: I want to be heard lol :headscratch: who has my sheep :bolt:
Ps I'm going b29 hunting snail is typing a lot during this evening..
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peak/offpeak arena system :old: :noid
We have a saying in Finland: who raises the cats tail if not the cat itself... :P
EDIT/I really loved the fact that you suggestion was implemented, so all in good fun! :) /EDIT
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:D
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But Maybe sometimes it would be helpful to explain some things.
I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date. Some know they do and just go on to the next thing they wish to have fun at, I used to play WOW for a few years, but finally lost interest, I don't blame Blizzard for my loss of interest in fact WOW's player base numbers have also declined at similar % to ours. You tend to know a player has passed his point when he starts being extremely vocal about some little detail being the cause of him not having fun.
Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
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So if it is all in/out flow then it is marketing that counts. And if ROI at airshows is a bust, then something else. In my firm, with an annual budget of $8million the single best form of marketing is word of mouth/referral. The second is Facebook. The first, accounts for 70% of business, with Facebook way, way behind the curve at 20%.
What about gorilla marketing?
PS The first aspect of gorilla marketing/word of mouth is having something that thrills the home crowd. If this thread is an indication I would focus on the top-5 to -10 issues that would cost the least to modify, implement and measure response. Once the natives are settled some implement one of many campaigns to choose from and off we go. I would bet the ROI for such a campaign would be very rewarding. The easy changes, such as the darbar issue, etc could likely be adjusted in an afternoon.
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Ps I'm going b29 hunting snail is typing a lot during this evening..
That is Brilliant, I love the way you think.
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I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date. Some know they do and just go on to the next thing they wish to have fun at, I used to play WOW for a few years, but finally lost interest, I don't blame Blizzard for my loss of interest in fact WOW's player base numbers have also declined at similar % to ours. You tend to know a player has passed his point when he starts being extremely vocal about some little detail being the cause of him not having fun.
Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
as always thank you, hay I bucking the trend by staying and knowing I'm not going anyplace. I own one game on my PC and don't own anything that plugs into my tv. :banana: I always knew I was a rebel. :airplane: :joystick:
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What about gorilla marketing?
I don't think gorillas are much into flight combat games. But maybe Zack knows better, he's from Uganda after all :old:
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We have Gorilla's in our midst ?
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I don't think gorillas are much into flight combat games. But maybe Zack knows better, he's from Uganda after all :old:
no his last post in the o club said he is Mongolian..
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no his last post in the o club said he is Mongolian..
Mongolia is the capital city of Uganda...
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I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date. Some know they do and just go on to the next thing they wish to have fun at, I used to play WOW for a few years, but finally lost interest, I don't blame Blizzard for my loss of interest in fact WOW's player base numbers have also declined at similar % to ours. You tend to know a player has passed his point when he starts being extremely vocal about some little detail being the cause of him not having fun.
Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
I guess that makes us like your own...'300'. Not quite right in the head, but damn handy to have around in a pinch.
Sparta will need sons. :aok
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I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date. Some know they do and just go on to the next thing they wish to have fun at, I used to play WOW for a few years, but finally lost interest, I don't blame Blizzard for my loss of interest in fact WOW's player base numbers have also declined at similar % to ours. You tend to know a player has passed his point when he starts being extremely vocal about some little detail being the cause of him not having fun.
Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
Really? I completely understand your point about folks getting tired of the game, finding some microscopic bit to whine about, then using that excuse for leaving. But come on, surely I'm not alone in my point of view. I really do check the main page 2 - 3 times per week looking for some sort of news, update, ANYTHING. I STILL love the game but as many others have alluded to, can't always sit down for an hour looking for something at which to shoot.
Case in point: I used to play COD on-line simply because it was so easy to log on for a few minutes, kill/get killed then go about my business around the house. How I wish AH was similar to that! And I can assure you that when I AM able to sit down for a few minutes here and there and enjoy myself (like it used to be), my account becomes active again and STAYS active, as it once was. And BTW I did grow tired of COD but still wait around here for some glimmer of hope. Am I alone in my thinking or reasoning?
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I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date. Some know they do and just go on to the next thing they wish to have fun at, I used to play WOW for a few years, but finally lost interest, I don't blame Blizzard for my loss of interest in fact WOW's player base numbers have also declined at similar % to ours. You tend to know a player has passed his point when he starts being extremely vocal about some little detail being the cause of him not having fun.
Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
That makes perfect sense and should hopefully show everybody a lot more thought has gone into every aspect of your business than a few would like to portray.
The part about some being vocal and reaching their expiration date really should open everyone's eyes. I'm pretty persistent (vocal maybe) about wanting the J2M, but I don't think I'm starting to stink just yet. Imo small breaks help my attention return.
Thanks for the reply/insight too :salute
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/AHissue1_zps032be24b.png~original)
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Are all the people finding something to shoot at a problem, playing outside of 4pm - 1am U.S. Pacific Time?
And as HiTech pointed out. The rule, not the exception, is players have a shelf life. I've been here since 2002 playing without more than a week or two break at a time. I'm an anomaly along with all of POTW. Most of our members have been here 3 - 14 years. I was originally paid to play AW so I could support sound card issues for that game. Then I came here. About 20 years of simming this air combat. All of my squad finds something to shoot at whenever they are on with the possible exception of Fish42 who is in Australia.
There is a lot of complaining about not finding fights and not a lot of specifics. Kind of like telling Skuzzy there is a busted terrain tile near A1 on NDisles with no landmark references or a screen shot.
So! Is there a problem finding fights or, are those complaining helping themselves to have an excuse to find another game? It would be nice if you stopped using HiTech as the villain and just make up your minds.
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I don't own a gaming company, but like others I do care what happens to this one. I have a 4 year old son that I want to have fly alongside me one day and right now things appear in doubt.
If I had any real gripe about business decisions made by HTC, I would have to say shelving Combat Tour was the biggest mistake. It would of allowed online scripted play that would of supported a short duration of gameplay as well as given players a true time sink that may of captured players for a longer period of time. This one approach would of appealed to the quick fight type as well as those that care about the broader objectives.
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I don't own a gaming company, but like others I do care what happens to this one. I have a 4 year old son that I want to have fly alongside me one day and right now things appear in doubt.
If I had any real gripe about business decisions made by HTC, I would have to say shelving Combat Tour was the biggest mistake. It would of allowed online scripted play that would of supported a short duration of gameplay as well as given players a true time sink that may of captured players for a longer period of time. This one approach would of appealed to the quick fight type as well as those that care about the broader objectives.
i do wish CT had worked, the concept was vary interesting to me.. Vary much what some people are looking for. Clearly HTC had a good reason to but it on a back burner.
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Are all the people finding something to shoot at a problem, playing outside of 4pm - 1am U.S. Pacific Time?
And as HiTech pointed out. The rule, not the exception, is players have a shelf life. I've been here since 2002 playing without more than a week or two break at a time. I'm an anomaly along with all of POTW. Most of our members have been here 3 - 14 years. I was originally paid to play AW so I could support sound card issues for that game. Then I came here. About 20 years of simming this air combat. All of my squad finds something to shoot at whenever they are on with the possible exception of Fish42 who is in Australia.
There is a lot of complaining about not finding fights and not a lot of specifics. Kind of like telling Skuzzy there is a busted terrain tile near A1 on NDisles with no landmark references or a screen shot.
So! Is there a problem finding fights or, are those complaining helping themselves to have an excuse to find another game? It would be nice if you stopped using HiTech as the villain and just make up your minds.
Well, then I am the exception. I started pre-AHII, Pre-AH, in the AW days. How is "not finding fights" not a specific? To me it points to A) not enough people B) maps that are too large, and possibly C)something of which I am totally unaware. But it is, in this thread, a recurring theme. With me it certainly is not an excuse to find another game because this is the only game I play and am not looking for another. There. My mind's made up (again).
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people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm.
I'm delighted to hear that. I was beginning to fear I was normal.
The vast majority of posters, and now Hitech, seem to agree that the trick is picking up new blood (to replace the departing normal people), rather than tweaking the fine points of the game.
- oldman (nuzzling his comfort blanket)
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Really? I completely understand your point about folks getting tired of the game, finding some microscopic bit to whine about, then using that excuse for leaving. But come on, surely I'm not alone in my point of view. I really do check the main page 2 - 3 times per week looking for some sort of news, update, ANYTHING. I STILL love the game but as many others have alluded to, can't always sit down for an hour looking for something at which to shoot.
Case in point: I used to play COD on-line simply because it was so easy to log on for a few minutes, kill/get killed then go about my business around the house. How I wish AH was similar to that! And I can assure you that when I AM able to sit down for a few minutes here and there and enjoy myself (like it used to be), my account becomes active again and STAYS active, as it once was. And BTW I did grow tired of COD but still wait around here for some glimmer of hope. Am I alone in my thinking or reasoning?
Well this game can't be like COD in the sense of gameplay. It is always different and players are hard to predict. Even after years of playing. That's why I still stick around. It is very challenging and there are so many options. Every plane has a strength and weakness. I think in order to achive faster and more engaging gameplay is to have shorter base distances.
I agree with Hitech, attracting new players is key. I want to see the arena's packed. I have made my own personal opions about commercials in a post a few pages back. Those are the marketing channels we need to attack.
I think by now he gets the point. We just want to see you and the game succeed, Hitech. We are looking forward to the new remodel. Hope the pressure don't kill ya. Just relax and follow my simple avatar hahaha.
Good luck, but I'll still be around cuz poppin noobz in AH is the next best thing since not the bears.
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I wish this were the case but think of simply how this thread has gone, I did just explain that we have tried air shows, what has been the result? In fact I would bet I have stated in the past that we have tried air shows.
I did not know that you had tried air shows before. And you did not get a good ROI? Wow. That kind of boggles the mind.
I can explain simple facts that most players have an expiration date.
<Some Deleted>
but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm.
I hope to be one of the exceptions to this rule. But the simple fact is that I know that life is not static. Things will change. Because of Real Life issues, there may come a day when I have to put my plane in the hangar for good. Until then, I am hunting for that expiration date with a bottle of white out in my hand.
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The attraction of this game for me is ...
1) I always wondered what kind of a combat pilot I would be.
2) It's human competition.
3) It's difficult
If I were to market the game to new players I would focus on...
1) The game having the virtual-worlds best combat pilots, to establish the "Global Human Competition" of it
2) I would find a way to let X-BOX universe join and play with their "game Controlers"
I also agree that the big arena Idea has issues. "the war" isn't being run by anyone so the whole thing is chaos. Hording in some places, vast areas with no-one. Spawn camping, bomb tarding, ganging are prevalent. What most new comers want is some balanced action. In XBOX games for example all fights are even match ups. Imaging if you signed on to XBOX, entered a match and it was 7v1 and every time you spawned you got shot in the head because the spawns were all camped? how long would you last? The big free-for-all arena is fun for patient old timers who know the game and understand the concept of "the war" but a it's a nightmare for the new generation.
I would keep the LW arena as the Free-for-all-It's-one-big-giant-war Arena, but I would lose Mid-war and Early-war and replace them with lots of mini arenas that have only two bases and sets up 8v8 "capture the Flag" games where the object is to capture the other base, while defending your own. Or timed 8v8 dog fights, or timed 8v8 tank battles. OR 8v8 fights with 1,2,or 3 lives each...last man standing wins...etc...
These can be set up now in a h2h arena now, but who is going to work the phones to get everyone in the battle, especially if you're new? The game should have an option to "1-click" into something like that. This will let newbees fight even odds at one thing at a time until they master enough things to get in the LW free for all.
Just my thoughts. :salute
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Reality is that for AH to grow again it is all about attracting new customers, and very little to do with keeping the current ones. That simple explanation will be taken out of context at some point, but people who play the same game for many years in a row are not the norm. To maintain viability it is all about inflow rates and out flow rates. At some point (average player life time) trying to slow the out flow rate does not make economic sense.
HiTech
I'd be interested in knowing why you believe players get tired of the game. Is that the nature of games in general? I think your explanation would be easier for all of us to accept if you could just explain it. I haven't grown tired of the "game". I've grown tired of chasing play in the game. There was a time when furballs and base taking attempts lasted for 48 hours at virtually the same intensity. The running joke when you logged in a day later was, "you guys haven't taken this base yet????". If there isn't an explainable reason, business models then take over. Marketing and Advertising. Accountants don't count. Without the prior 3, accountants have nothing to count. :D
While you've said it before and I believe you, its still confusing. Business 101: The fiscal burden of obtaining new clients is 10 times that of the existing client base (you mentioning ROI on advertising in certain markets tells me you know this). Sunk costs (money already spent on existing customers) + ongoing costs (the costs to keep them spending with you - updates) vs new customer costs (marketing, advertising, product improvements to appeal to new customers).
There are other costs on both sides but there is an imbalance here that additional costs will not overcome. Sunk + ongoing will always be smaller than new customer costs because there are no marketing and advertising costs necessary to keep existing customers. They already know you and have spent dollars with you. So, your ROI will always be higher with existing customers because you will always plan on updates to the game which supplies both existing and future clients with a product.
Edit: MBA 101: Businesses cannot save their way to long-term prosperity. Constant investment in time, product, and exposure.
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See. Rule 4
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For quote a rule 4
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Were this just a game, I'd have quit some years ago, as it's gotten quite stale for me....but I've dozens of RL friends I've made over the years, going back to 1995 with AW, and this is my connection to them. (Hell, most of the people whom I KNOW, at this point in my life, are from this game) Hope it doesn't end, and according to HT, the key is keeping new people coming in, which agrees with most business models I've ever heard of. I'm afraid we're running out of kids whose father flew in WW2 (like mine) who built models of these planes throughout their childhoods....the game needs to appeal to the instant gratification-COD console crowd, though how to do that eludes me...other than make the graphics look at least as nice as WOT/airplanes/whatever (it has the ability to be dialed back to accept low-end PC's, not sure why AH can't be same)....and maybe after 15 years, NOT have a small bush upend a tank :D..(I'm good with the air stuff...other than the nuclear explosion doubling as the sun)
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There are probably a few that blame HiTech. I don't blame him at all. I think the update was way late and could have staved off some of the exodus of players. He could argue they were leaving anyway. I would argue if the game perpetuated fun and proper attention was paid to their concerns OFF OF THIS BBS and privately, why would they leave? "Cuz that's what they do" isn't a real good answer and one I know my boss wouldn't accept. He's an Aggie so maybe that's the problem but in the end, he'd want a precise reason as to why they left. And there is a reason. Are they AH controllable? Some are, some are not. I'd be willing to bet its the old 80-20 rule
This is where I come down pretty much as well, especially the "took too long" part. Personally, I have no trouble finding fights or something to do, but I barely play compared to many of those that ARE having such troubles, and there is enough of them being vocal enough, that taking both that and the decline in numbers, it's evident something has gone wrong. IMO it's still just down to the numbers, and they are down, way down, compared to the high HTC said here on this BBS that peaked around 2008/2009. The fact that it's been 4 years with few substantial updates or changes/innovations to the game, sort of coincides with the decline - when I asked Snailman to graph the changes in the last 4 years, his response was "aside from a small strat change, there are none". All the ROI, CPI/advertising, new/old player models - none if it had near the effect that leaving the game to its own devices for 4 years has had IMO.
Also - EvE has been around over 10 years now. A year after it's ten year anniversary, just recently, it added 100 thousand subscribers in a fiscal year, for a total of over 500,000. This could have been HTC's story, just on a smaller scale. The foundation of the creation AH was built on is so strong that it has survived in spite of it really having been left on autopilot for a long time, in terms of new major features and innovations (yes there have been tweaks and the odd new plane/etc, but nothing on the order of a large exciting change). This is why I'm still around, I have hope, hope based on the past pre the last few years, but strong hope none the less.
I don't buy the argument about grandchildren and the interest in WW2 waning - if that is the case, how does one explain the tens of thousands over at WT? The subject matter isn't the problem, WW2 games have millions of players right now. Nor need the game here be simplified. THere are nearly 3/4 of a million people who have paid 65$ million USD total, for early looks/access to Star Citizen, and it's a very complex flight model, far more so than here, especially if you want to be any good. The entire world being constructed there is incredibly diverse and complex, yet more new blood pours in every day there.
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Rule #4: 4- Flamebaiting, flaming, being abusing, being disrepectful, trolling, spamming or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
Let's see, I quoted a post then responded saying something to the effect of :"Very eloquently spoken. Thank you!"
That was flamebaiting. abusive, disrespectful, etc? Are you serious? The guy said what I was trying to say and I complemented him? How does Rule #4 apply?
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1. Young people don't have (or want) desktop PC's anymore.
2. I'm older than dirt and I'll never buy a new Desktop.
If you can't fly your plane holding your iPad or Windows tablet in the future, I don't think there will be too many new players.
Posted from my iPhone.
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Rule #4: 4- Flamebaiting, flaming, being abusing, being disrepectful, trolling, spamming or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
Let's see, I quoted a post then responded saying something to the effect of :"Very eloquently spoken. Thank you!"
That was flamebaiting. abusive, disrespectful, etc? Are you serious? The guy said what I was trying to say and I complemented him? How does Rule #4 apply?
Yours was not,simply deleted for the quote. His pretty much hit each item in the list
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You'll have to help me out here. Seriously. Does Rule #4 prohibit quotes? I've read Rule #4 about 50 times now, and see nothing there that prohibits quoting a post. I'm not a regular here so whatever I did that was in error, just say it.
His pretty much hit each item in the list
"His" who? What "items"? Your post makes no sense to me, and I don't say that to break you #4 rule.
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I'm glad there is no CT. I was dreading that, as I very much do not want to be fighting computer-controlled aircraft opponents.
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You'll have to help me out here. Seriously. Does Rule #4 prohibit quotes? I've read Rule #4 about 50 times now, and see nothing there that prohibits quoting a post.
I think he is saying that the post you quoted violated the rules, and so it was deleted. And since your post quoted the rule breaking message, your post was also deleted in order to remove the material that you quoted.
Quoting a post does not violate the rules. But the text you quoted did violate the rules.
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Nor is it your business Traveler.
That's correct and I never said it was, I like the idea that HiTech is totally responsible for his business. That's the way it should be, if it fails its on him, if it is successful it's also on him. But if he's not going to share information he can't be asking us the customers about the ROI for any part of his business and his asking that question to put down someone that was just offering help is, well, a cheap shot.
s
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Thank you very much FLS, Brooke, Ammo, Ack-Ack and Lazerr! I remember you all and it's very nice to see some vets are still around!
FLS, lol yes I remember it vaguely! But I do remember it! :D
Funny thing is I was thinking about maybe spending time with the P47 and F4U now ;)
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You'll have to help me out here. Seriously. Does Rule #4 prohibit quotes? I've read Rule #4 about 50 times now, and see nothing there that prohibits quoting a post. I'm not a regular here so whatever I did that was in error, just say it.
"His" who? What "items"? Your post makes no sense to me, and I don't say that to break you #4 rule.
Think it through..... go on, give it a try....
ok, I'll help ya. If the original post broke a rule then that means whatever was posted has no place on this BBS, the owners have stipulated what is and what is not acceptable. If the original post breaks rules then it will be removed......it gets removed as posts like that are not welcome on this BBS....if you quote that post before it's been removed then your quote remains a place where the original post is still on this BBS and, therefore, must be removed as well despite you not having broken any rules. Removal of an offensive post that you have quoted should not be seen as a slur on your character in any way.
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1. Young people don't have (or want) desktop PC's anymore.
2. I'm older than dirt and I'll never buy a new Desktop.
If you can't fly your plane holding your iPad or Windows tablet in the future, I don't think there will be too many new players.
Posted from my iPhone.
Hey there Rolex :salute
Man, I was just thinking the same (as for new players). What I was mostly thinking is, tablets are still somewhat in their infancy and technology has grown in leaps and bounds since HTC opened its doors. HTC has performed miracles to give us the huge online arenas, I wouldn't bet against them for doing something that would be playable with those devices in the future, due to their ability to tweak memory management and possibility of new development in architecture for future devices.
The number of folks that currently have spent a few Benjamins ($300 or more) solely on video cards, would surely put out good money for smaller devices that could stand the strain of an AH type game.
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Thank you very much FLS, Brooke, Ammo, Ack-Ack and Lazerr! I remember you all and it's very nice to see some vets are still around!
FLS, lol yes I remember it vaguely! But I do remember it! :D
Funny thing is I was thinking about maybe spending time with the P47 and F4U now ;)
Howdy Wilbus, great to see you back! If you're interested in Jug flying come fly along with the 56th and see if you like it. :salute :cheers:
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P.S. Wilb! LTNS! :)
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I am supporting Aces High. My gaming rig went tits up in October and I havent been able to fly. Yet I still pay my monthly fee. Hoping to get a new rig soon. :banana:
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Think it through..... go on, give it a try....
ok, I'll help ya. If the original post broke a rule then that means whatever was posted has no place on this BBS, the owners have stipulated what is and what is not acceptable. If the original post breaks rules then it will be removed......it gets removed as posts like that are not welcome on this BBS....if you quote that post before it's been removed then your quote remains a place where the original post is still on this BBS and, therefore, must be removed as well despite you not having broken any rules. Removal of an offensive post that you have quoted should not be seen as a slur on your character in any way.
Let me help you out as your sarcasm is misplaced and uninformed. The confusion on my part comes from the fact that the quote in my post was deleted yet the original post from which I quoted remains. Get it?
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This thread runs so fast I hardly can follow! Hopefully it's a sign about the importance of the matter in hand.
For what I've read and seen there seems to be two major issues: Low numbers during peak hours and low numbers during off-peak hours, both of which make people leave at least for the session they had planned to play.
There's a recipe so simple everyone can do it: Instead of leaving, stay! Wait for the numbers to grow. If everyone who currently only pops in to see some familiar names on the roster would stay for an hour or so waiting for the said names, the numbers would look entirely different! Also, you can inform others that you're going to play at a certain time. That method has worked wonders in the Finnish community, our three year old "Action for the flying night" thread is 36 pages long - not bad considering there's only about a dozen more or less active players here. That means a page a month, one message every second day on the average with 15 messages a page. Think about that, do some more math with the number of players in your squad.
As for advertising, I've never seen one. I also suppose that I'm not in a minority for not watching TV very much. At least that's what I've been reading: Active computer users don't have time to watch TV. They watch their computer instead, thus also being able to skip the annoying ads! For off peak hours the ads should be on the European channels, each country having their own. Investing into that would never pay back!
So, please do yourself and your fellow AH'ers a favor by staying online a little longer, wait for others to pop in. While waiting, do something you wouldn't normally do: Up a hangar queen, learn how to drive a vehicle or a PT boat, explore the surroundings with a Storch...
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There's a recipe so simple everyone can do it: Instead of leaving, stay! Wait for the numbers to grow. If everyone who currently only pops in to see some familiar names on the roster would stay for an hour or so waiting for the said names, the numbers would look entirely different!
I have done that for years, and it doesn't work. Wether I, as an individual, stay or not has no direct influence on the LW numbers. Or any other arena, I might add out of experience. And an individual player will mostly log off if he has no fun (for whatever reason) - after all this is a game and he's here to have fun and not to 'work' on it, possibly by doing things he's just not interested in.
Yes, "if everybody would come and stay" things would be different... but on a larger that's wishful thinking. People play when they have fun and don't when they have not. And in the end, it's the games job to create an satisfying game environment, and not the individual player's.
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I take complete responsibility for the decline in the player base over the years, although I am unsure if it was my salty behavior, the loud farts over vox, or their uber late war planes shot down by my D11.
So, I sincerely apologize and hope those that left will accept this token and come back!
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
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Let me help you out as your sarcasm is misplaced and uninformed. The confusion on my part comes from the fact that the quote in my post was deleted yet the original post from which I quoted remains. Get it?
You're misreading, there's no sarcasm in my post whatsoever. However, from the point of view of your own affrontedness, that's probably worse. And even though I never saw either post, the one above yours is rule #4'd as well and I find it very difficult to believe that HT would rule #4 the wrong post, therefore I can only assume that you are incorrect and the original post you quoted does not actually remain. Since the one above that is from the same poster I'm also assuming you're getting confused about which post you quoted. There is every possibility that I assume incorrectly but odds are pretty good that I'm not.
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1. Young people don't have (or want) desktop PC's anymore.
2. I'm older than dirt and I'll never buy a new Desktop.
If you can't fly your plane holding your iPad or Windows tablet in the future, I don't think there will be too many new players.
Posted from my iPhone.
I am 24 and just baught an $865 PC which I just finished so that I could play video games to the max capacity. Finally I can play AH in full detail haha. I think the PC gaming industry is actually about to see a spike. I believe it has become more popular among 18-30 year olds. There are more games to play, better graphics, and the games are cheaper (steam and origin deals), plus competition among the games are almost identical (COD, battlefield, and soon GTAV) are some of the most popular.) I was able to find BF4 for $5 on sale the other day.
I am right there in the target market for all of the gaming industry. There is a reason I still play this game. The challenge, the competition, and dogfighting in planes, the people, the skill, the concept. It's beautiful on the inside haha.
This game, like I said, cannot, or should not, be like COD in the sense of gameplay because it is a world map not limited to boundaries, in which any amount of players can be for or against you at any time, anywhere. The teams are not limited and the match never ends. Plus in a community like this, interacting and forming relationships is part of the game, where as other huge games are not. I hope this part of the game never changes. This means that time to find a fight is up to your disgretion, it takes patients and practice to be able to be good at always finding someone in the sky to fight. It is almost a second strategy skill.
It took me like 3 years to really figure out this game and how to fly all the planes in it, how to find fights and win in disadvanatged positions. It was something I craved, and was really passionate about. I met the muppets and felt those were the guys I fit in with. You just don't get that with COD or BF type games. I played Microsoft Flight Sim and Combat flight Sim in my early young years but this game blew me away.
I realize at off peak hours this is hard, especially with a huge map, and even more so when the HQ is down. I don't play off hours much as I am at work all day. But what I have I realized in the off hours was
that taking off was more of a risk of well I hope I can find the one or 2 con's in the sector so I don't waste 30 min staring at the sky.
I have said it before and I'll say it again. This game is extremely fun with only 8 players on a small map. H2H was the proof of that. If any of you played smog8 map Team deathmatch in H2H years ago you will know what I am talking about.
The problem that bores people from the game is lack of action and aimlessly flying around with nothing to shoot at. If this takes 20 minutes, the game gets boring. If you get shot down, flying 15 min to a base again is a real desicion.
When you die, you really gotta think twice about upping again. Do I want to use another 20min to get alt and go fly all the way back to a base for the same result?
If there was a way to make the map boundaries smaller and close bases off so that the arena is compact in a smaller area for off hours, this would condense the action and cause more fights, tangos, and fun during the off hours. As more people joined, more bases would open up. Just like real war!!! Plus the base capture game would be more concentrated. If this were applied during off hours, you'd start to see these people enjoy the game more. This would fix 98% of the problem people are having in the off hours. Plus if HQ goes down, people still kinda know where the action is.
1. Shorter base distances.
2. Close off bases and condense the arena into a smaller area during off hours so that fights are consentrated on the same overall map. As more people enter, more bases open up. It could be like every 50 players that enter, 10-15 bases open. This would be realistic too.
What do you all think?
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Aztec, I will take you up on that for sure! Would be great to join up in a flight of Jugs :-) :cheers:
Swoop, indeed long time no see! :salute
Can't wait till next year now, it'll be fun to go online and see how fast I get shot down ;)
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Hey Wilb, if you'd like a spot in the January Scenario.....my flight has a place for ya (P38J's)
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I have done that for years, and it doesn't work. Wether I, as an individual, stay or not has no direct influence on the LW numbers. Or any other arena, I might add out of experience. And an individual player will mostly log off if he has no fun (for whatever reason) - after all this is a game and he's here to have fun and not to 'work' on it, possibly by doing things he's just not interested in.
Yes, "if everybody would come and stay" things would be different... but on a larger that's wishful thinking. People play when they have fun and don't when they have not. And in the end, it's the games job to create an satisfying game environment, and not the individual player's.
Lusche, you know as well as I do that our time zones count as off-peak. Then again, one of us here staying means much more in percents than one single player during the American prime time. We are worth more to this game, don't you think so too?
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Lusche, you know as well as I do that our time zones count as off-peak. Then again, one of us here staying means much more in percents than one single player during the American prime time. We are worth more to this game, don't you think so too?
I agree! Wohnen im Stuttgart
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Hey Wilb, if you'd like a spot in the January Scenario.....my flight has a place for ya (P38J's)
Sweet Swoop! :)
Is it Battle Over the Winter Line?
I hope I can participate but maybe not all four scenarios, it depends a little bit on what weekends I'll be away visiting my girlfriend who's studying 200 miles away :-/
Give me a few days to see wether I am back in business by then! :-)
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Lusche, you know as well as I do that our time zones count as off-peak. Then again, one of us here staying means much more in percents than one single player during the American prime time. We are worth more to this game, don't you think so too?
But still it doesn't change any thin if I'm logged in or not. When there's a large map with 30 players all over place and nothing happens on my frontlines no matter what I'm not going to stay online to 'raise the percentage'. AH is not a duty.
As a matter of fact, I have been online for hours during offline hours for many years. My individual impact on the numbers was and probably overall arena experience nil.
I'm not here to do a job, I'm here to have fun, just like every other player. And to put things a bit more into perspective, the 15$ I spend for AH are about my total entertainment budget.
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Why are there so many references to COD? Maybe you should reference EVE on line as it has more in common with AH2.
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I am supporting Aces High. My gaming rig went tits up in October and I havent been able to fly. Yet I still pay my monthly fee. Hoping to get a new rig soon. :banana:
You're a good man. What do you need to bring the rig back from the dead?
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I have done that for years, and it doesn't work. Wether I, as an individual, stay or not has no direct influence on the LW numbers. Or any other arena, I might add out of experience.
I guess you don't believe in voting either then. :)
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But still it doesn't change any thin if I'm logged in or not. When there's a large map with 30 players all over place and nothing happens on my frontlines no matter what I'm not going to stay online to 'raise the percentage'. AH is not a duty.
As a matter of fact, I have been online for hours during offline hours for many years. My individual impact on the numbers was and probably overall arena experience nil.
I'm not here to do a job, I'm here to have fun, just like every other player. And to put things a bit more into perspective, the 15$ I spend for AH are about my total entertainment budget.
I believe you're doing your share, I've seen you online almost every time I've logged in. I'm talking about those who'd pop in just for a minute to scroll down the roster and leave if there's no one they know online. And I'm talking about exploring the many ways to have fun in this game. :salute
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You're misreading, there's no sarcasm in my post whatsoever. However, from the point of view of your own affrontedness, that's probably worse. And even though I never saw either post, the one above yours is rule #4'd as well and I find it very difficult to believe that HT would rule #4 the wrong post, therefore I can only assume that you are incorrect and the original post you quoted does not actually remain. Since the one above that is from the same poster I'm also assuming you're getting confused about which post you quoted. There is every possibility that I assume incorrectly but odds are pretty good that I'm not.
It's easy to miss the tone of Swoop, since he types with a British accent and all. Now try and get my Southern drawl and we are all set!
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I am right there in the target market for all of the gaming industry. There is a reason I still play this game. The challenge, the competition, and dogfighting in planes, the people, the skill, the concept. It's beautiful on the inside haha.
It took me like 3 years to really figure out this game and how to fly all the planes in it, how to find fights and win in disadvanatged positions. It was something I craved, and was really passionate about. I met the muppets and felt those were the guys I fit in with. You just don't get that with COD or BF type games. I played Microsoft Flight Sim and Combat flight Sim in my early young years but this game blew me away.
The problem that bores people from the game is lack of action and aimlessly flying around with nothing to shoot at. If this takes 20 minutes, the game gets boring. If you get shot down, flying 15 min to a base again is a real desicion.
If there was a way to make the map boundaries smaller and close bases off so that the arena is compact in a smaller area for off hours, this would condense the action and cause more fights, tangos, and fun during the off hours. As more people joined, more bases would open up. Just like real war!!! Plus the base capture game would be more concentrated. If this were applied during off hours, you'd start to see these people enjoy the game more. This would fix 98% of the problem people are having in the off hours. Plus if HQ goes down, people still kinda know where the action is.
1. Shorter base distances.
2. Close off bases and condense the arena into a smaller area during off hours so that fights are consentrated on the same overall map. As more people enter, more bases open up. It could be like every 50 players that enter, 10-15 bases open. This would be realistic too.
What do you all think?
Bases need some distance to allow it from becoming a Gv spawn.
The smaller maps off peak is a sensible idea many have brought forth but I like your Idea of an ever expanding map as forces are increased. Don't know how it could be implemented but perhaps with limiting plane sets at certain bases.
I would like to see the dynamic of having 8 p51s 8 Yak3s, 8 KI84s at base X and 8 ME 109s, 8 fw190ds, 8 Spit XIs, at base Y If you wanted a flight of 20 P-51s you would have to draw from several bases.
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Find a way to build the community = Save Aces High
I used to enjoy the O'Club.... Skuzzy.
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Find a way to build the community = Save Aces High
I used to enjoy the O'Club.... Skuzzy.
:aok Well said.
HiTech could probably push this update out a little faster, if he wasn't on here trying to defend a great game that he created.
Let the man do his job. Some of you guys don't like the way this game is, try creating your own. Bet it's not as easy-peasy as you think.
Coogan
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Let me help you out as your sarcasm is misplaced and uninformed. The confusion on my part comes from the fact that the quote in my post was deleted yet the original post from which I quoted remains. Get it?
And it's flamebaiting. Just saying...
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Aces High is a great game. But look at this thread for a minute, and you'll see why it's so difficult to "fix" it. I see people arguing that the game needs to become more hardcore, that it needs to be less hardcore, that it needs better graphics, and that the graphics are fine. There's a million ways to "fix" this game, but many of them are directly at odds with one another.
After awhile, if you play something enough, you're going to get bored. Building a strong community is helpful, but the friends I've made in Aces High I wound up playing with in other games too - Drex and I played World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic together, and I've played Diablo III with Grizz. The relationships here transcend the game, and thus won't solely save it. When I got together with Drex for dinner a couple of years back while in Oklahoma City on business, neither of us had set foot in an AH arena for years. So there's that.
I will say that the I've always had two major issues with AH that I think make it inaccessible to newer users. One, it lacks an easy user interface; the one it has is functional and actually pretty powerful, but it's clunky and unintuitive. A lot of new players are going to get lost and give up before they even figure out how to map buttons and enable their controllers. And second, the game needs a game primer for new players - not a tutorial on how to fly, per se, but rather a tutorial system on how to fly in Aces High. It's okay IMO to throw people into the meat grinder, but it's not okay to give little guidance on how to start engines or what different field maps, sides, fuel multipliers, and the like mean. Aces High did a great job of serving as the natural evolution for Air Warrior and Warbirds, and back then these sorts of facts seemed obvious, but now the new players come from completely different backgrounds.
Just my two cents. It's still a great game, and I hope it remains successful far into the future.
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Bases need some distance to allow it from becoming a Gv spawn.
The smaller maps off peak is a sensible idea many have brought forth but I like your Idea of an ever expanding map as forces are increased. Don't know how it could be implemented but perhaps with limiting plane sets at certain bases.
I would like to see the dynamic of having 8 p51s 8 Yak3s, 8 KI84s at base X and 8 ME 109s, 8 fw190ds, 8 Spit XIs, at base Y If you wanted a flight of 20 P-51s you would have to draw from several bases.
Yeah but 15-18 miles would be fine too, for tanks, IMO. But I really only focus on the air combat aspect which I think is the main theme of the game. All these tank enthusiest scare me. I do think it is a great part of the game though for sure.
There is that map that is quite small with no CVs. It would be an awesome map if it just had a few bases in between each other, once the FHs go down on a field, it is impossible to up from another base to defend. Once you die, you have to fly another 20 min to the base if you don't go on the deck, only to either not find someone to fight, or you get ganged because your teamates die and don't want to up again because it is too far. Notice festers new map. It is very very large. But despite that, his bases are close together. This allows for defense from other bases that are near, allows for fast action fights, limits high altitude gangers, creates more exciting game play all around, makes taking bases more fun, and when you get shot down, you don't have spend 20 min flying back to the enemy base. The layout is great fun for all aspects of players as well.
If you ever go into the AvA arena, you can see how much fun it is when bases are closer together.
Speaking of the AvA, this is where you find Axis V allied fights. It's hella fun, btw. Really test your skills vs no icons, which in my opinion is awesome, and the strategies you can imploy are very different than in the MA when you have visuals of icons. I think the ganging gets turned wayyy down with no icons. AvA is a blast!! I don't think it would work out too well in the MA. The Allied planes for the most part are much better than axis as a group, and I don't think the numbers would be even.
Limiting planes would piss people off, much like the ENY cap already does, with far apart bases this would be a catastrophy. We need all the furballs we can get at this time.
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Aces High is a great game. But look at this thread for a minute, and you'll see why it's so difficult to "fix" it. I see people arguing that the game needs to become more hardcore, that it needs to be less hardcore, that it needs better graphics, and that the graphics are fine. There's a million ways to "fix" this game, but many of them are directly at odds with one another.
After awhile, if you play something enough, you're going to get bored. Building a strong community is helpful, but the friends I've made in Aces High I wound up playing with in other games too - Drex and I played World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic together, and I've played Diablo III with Grizz. The relationships here transcend the game, and thus won't solely save it. When I got together with Drex for dinner a couple of years back while in Oklahoma City on business, neither of us had set foot in an AH arena for years. So there's that.
I will say that the I've always had two major issues with AH that I think make it inaccessible to newer users. One, it lacks an easy user interface; the one it has is functional and actually pretty powerful, but it's clunky and unintuitive. A lot of new players are going to get lost and give up before they even figure out how to map buttons and enable their controllers. And second, the game needs a game primer for new players - not a tutorial on how to fly, per se, but rather a tutorial system on how to fly in Aces High. It's okay IMO to throw people into the meat grinder, but it's not okay to give little guidance on how to start engines or what different field maps, sides, fuel multipliers, and the like mean. Aces High did a great job of serving as the natural evolution for Air Warrior and Warbirds, and back then these sorts of facts seemed obvious, but now the new players come from completely different backgrounds.
Just my two cents. It's still a great game, and I hope it remains successful far into the future.
Yeah that's true Levi. I do think the training or beginners guide would be quite handy. Setting up a stick is hard for people who don't know. For example, I just got a new comp, my axis were backwards on AH so I had to switch elevator and aileron axises to even fly straight (push forward and I turn left haha). Hell it took me about a week to even figure out the radio and what channel to use and how to use it. So I think you are right about that aspect!
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I will say that the I've always had two major issues with AH that I think make it inaccessible to newer users. One, it lacks an easy user interface; the one it has is functional and actually pretty powerful, but it's clunky and unintuitive. A lot of new players are going to get lost and give up before they even figure out how to map buttons and enable their controllers. And second, the game needs a game primer for new players - not a tutorial on how to fly, per se, but rather a tutorial system on how to fly in Aces High.
Agreed on both points. Hard to say how many people never even show up in the arenas because they can't figure out how to get there.
<S> +Todd.
- oldman
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Much has been discussed in thus thread about Ace High support with an abundance of suggestions, some good and some bad. What I have noticed is a lot of discussion regarding enticing and retaining new players. I came to Aces High from Air Warrior and prior to AW I did not have any experience with WWII aircraft. When I started AW I had to start in an arena that was for new players only. In that arena all of us new players competed against each other, learning the game and tactics as we played. The players helped each other, which had the effect of building the community before ever setting foot in the main arena. Once a player accumulated a score of 10,000 points, he/she was promoted (if you will) to the main arena. Veteran players could come to the new player arena and fly with the new players, offering advice but could not shoot them down. I believe that such a system in AH would be beneficial in helping the new player learn the game, while enjoying it and would result in retention of the player.
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I will say that the I've always had two major issues with AH that I think make it inaccessible to newer users. One, it lacks an easy user interface; the one it has is functional and actually pretty powerful, but it's clunky and unintuitive. A lot of new players are going to get lost and give up before they even figure out how to map buttons and enable their controllers. And second, the game needs a game primer for new players - not a tutorial on how to fly, per se, but rather a tutorial system on how to fly in Aces High.
Hi Todd - you planning on returning once the new version is out? Hope so.
I've been railing on this issue myself for the last year. Nothing is of more importance in terms of keeping new players, than helping them figure out wth is going on in the game as fast as possible.
I agree. In fact IMO it would be a lot easier for new players, and possibly be a factor in retention rates with them, if all of the "new guy" type of information, from all the information in the wiki, various game manual places, and these new videos, all be accessible from a very, very easy to see button or link on the front page, and all be in that one place. There is piles of great information on the HTC webpages, it's just not consolidated or all that easy to find in a simple 1, 2 ,3 flow chart sort of way.
- Sept this year
I'm hopeful that there will be enough change to not only bring many vets out of the woodwork, but interest new players as well. A consolidated and more organized help/new player area would help greatly with this IMO, in addition to the new version and game itself.
- July this year
Also create a streamlined, consolidated, and regularly updated game manual, and funnel this into the already excellent training corps.
- November this year
Next to more frequent and regular updates and innovations, nothing is more important than this issue IMO. Look at EvE - as difficult as it is to learn, it DOES have a pretty simple, flexible, and well written tutorial system. That's what is needed at AH - a consolidated, regularly updated documentation system, as WELL as a walk through/tutorial. Most people don't want to "go find a trainer" as their first thing they do, they want to explore themselves, decide themselves, but they also want an accurate, up to date, and helpful tutorial. A big red button saying "Get Started Playing Now", which takes them into a tutorial/video system with narration and examples showing how to set up their game/controls, how the game, clipboard, radio/comms, etc all work, and then get into the actual fun stuff, the fighting, and offering of trainers and such. Even as a 15 year vet I find it difficult to find information on features I just have never bothered using, and was told to search through the "New and Updates" forum as that is where that information is kept, on the BBS, for many upgrades to the game over the years - the current docs are mostly out of date, and all over the place.
None of this really affects me, or most long time players, but it certainly has a huge effect on new players, and if the inflow of new players is the goal and thing of paramount importance, it should probably be near the top of the list of things to change.
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So....rough guess would be folks want maps that are the same size as the ones I see in War Thunder? :headscratch:
A good way for Aces High to be supported would be a more active Home Page though (This of course falls on HTC). It looks dead. That tiny bit about Tour winners, easily missed as it just doesn't stand out at. Be active all you want on FB and Twitter, but Home Page looks dead and it probably amount to jack.
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Wilbus old friend, great to see your name mentioned in conjunction with the game again. And seeing your responses.
If I don't see you before, Happy Holidays!
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Hey Wilb, if you'd like a spot in the January Scenario.....my flight has a place for ya (P38J's)
Yes, Wilbus, please fly with us in the January scenario! :aok
The US side has P-38J's, P-51B's, and P-47D's.
The LW side has Bf 109G's and FW 190A-5's (and some 190F-8's and Bf 110's and Me 410's).
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The petty things people gripe about. I'd mention a few things, but sadly I could predict who would be along and in what order. But yes, petty things and it is a window into their miserable existence.
Carry on. Why play when you can post in a forum?
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Let me help you out as your sarcasm is misplaced and uninformed. The confusion on my part comes from the fact that the quote in my post was deleted yet the original post from which I quoted remains. Get it?
If this is the case either you quoted wrong one or I read the quote wrong. If it was me I apologize.
HiTech
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My idea to get the numbers up.... go to where the people (that share our interest) are... there are many war museums and airshows around the country. Have free disks sitting on the counter when they buy something at the gift shop or a booth at a show... Granted a booth may be expensive but a box of free disks is cheap.
That's my $.02 worth.
Todd
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Todd,
I think they have that portion of the business taken care of (won't quote the post of HiTech saying just that about doing airshows in the past). I much rather have HiTech sitting behind his desk, and making the daily decisions that run his business. At this point, a public relations team could offer him advice, but I believe that he most likely knows way more than they do about this industry.
He has made some very smart moves to get where he is, and although I don't agree with every decision he makes (and probably some of the same ones that you hear from others), it is his decision to make and he does not have to square it with me why. I, on the other hand, am responsible for my own happiness. I suggest that we all take the time to enjoy our friendships and connections while they last, even if it is not playing AH.
A funny thought: I spend so much time reading posts and responding, I wonder if HiTech closed the BBs for a week would the numbers go up. :rofl
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Been away last 14 mos after playing off/on >3yrs. Find myself on mids and check out forums. Forum topic was predictable: "how to save the game."
This game remains THE best entertainment experience I've had to date, so this worthwhile thread gets my 2 cents.
There are two competing interests here: the aforementioned ROI and the "value to player" factor which is highly subjective. I doubt many left playing would still be playing were it not for the many good dudes/social aspects of this game. That said, social factors should not be a primary reason to fly a flight sim. Having played 3+ yrs I had explored pretty much everything in-game that I had an interest in exploring. There were a few months when I didn't play but kept the sub going because it felt like the right thing to do somehow. Hundreds of dollars for any form of electronic gaming is a tough sell. The gaming market in general is becoming ever more saturated and fragmented over time (looking at you smart phones), perhaps at a rate greater than the available player bases. That said, there's plenty here to work with.
Suggestions:
Revenue
1. Pay once. People these days apparently have little issue with dropping 60 bucks on a game. This game even in its current "low player count" state is a steal for 30. Allow players to purchase once, play indefinitely. No more worrying about losing players to subscription fees, less player attrition, more players in MA over time. I'd still be firing up the game now and then if this were the case. This approach has been used before with games such as Guild Wars but not sure how successful it was as a model relative to WoW.
2. Look into the feasibility/ROI of harnessing services such as Amazon, Steam and Gamefly to increase the player base - the product is competitive. Obviously both these entities take quite a share, but if this can be offset with volume the downside is mitigated.
3. Allow in-game advertisements from third parties while in game menus/tower. Obviously this affects immersion but helps the bottom line/offsets the cost of own advertising. Billboards make money.
4. Don't take credit card info up front - that is a turn-off. Make people enter it only when free trial ends.
5. Drop regular sub cost to $5 for new players if that model must be kept. The $5/mo threshold is where I'd personally come back and where people would start figuring "hey, I spend $60 on games anyway, this is better!" Obviously this will rather tick off existing players but can be offset by allowing players with 5yrs + to play for free. This latter group is likely rather small already contributing significantly more to the AH community (Del/Greebo/Lusche/Waystin etc etc) than their sub fees.
6. Find/partner with some investors. If you can offer someone an 7-8% return on 40k in order to hire a new programmer to do project X in 12 mos vs the 36 mos it would have otherwise taken, everyone can win.
Gameplay
1. The primary gripes I ran into when trying to hook others on this game were as follows:
A: "The graphics aren't that great" ... to which I said "give it time." Problem solved.
B: "It takes me 15 minutes to get anywhere and I die in 2!" ...to which I said "give it time." Problem not solved.
C: "Is there any goal other than winning the war? Does anything carry over?...To which I said "Depends what you're playing for" and "no."
A: I don't see graphics as a true make or break item, provided someone gives the game the time of day. When I first installed I took one look around tower/hangar and uninstalled within 15 mins. Later came back over a year later out of boredom and had epiphany. Graphics provide that initial first impression which answers the question "am I getting enough for what I'm paying."
B: Coaches are fine, but the inclusion of a tutorial system explaining flight and gameplay mechanics will be more accessible and do a better job of giving players a good understanding of the game in that critical "noob" state.
C: Achievements were a step in the right direction, need a true pilot log/trophy case for continuity. Adding a medals chest a la the old X-Wing/Freespace games would be a quick means of at least partially satisfying those who stay for that kind of thing. Need more stats available for reference in-game. I love the web page K/D stats broken down by airplane but it would be awesome to have that available via in-game browser to include damage done stats for each plane, against whom etc.
2. Players need a sense of belonging/protection earlier in their game experience. Can you blame someone for not staying past their 2 free weeks when they die and then get called "stupid noob?" Established squads care about keeping the game going. When someone is on their trial, add the prefix "FNG" to whatever callsign they select for themselves and assign them to a squadron via a screen that says "Congratulation! You've been assigned to Squad X!" Each squaddie on at that point in time gets a notification that there's a noob on who might need some pointers/protection and the community takes it from there. No more being a lone, abused noob for months on end till you quit or happen to get invited to a squad. When the person starts paying or passes an hours played threshold, they lose the "FNG" label/highlight.
3. In the same vein as #2, there should be more easy customization options such as in-game flair where reaching a certain achievement threshold allows you to place your online squadron patch and/or a personal emblem on an aircraft.
4. Improve the look of the hangar/tower. Also add some some form of transition between death and tower. An external view of your plane spiraling to its doom, a zoom-in stillshot of the other guy's airplane with his name, a bunch of clouds with angels and harps with pretty music, something. These are little touches that have been missing which always struck me as a little "cheap."
Obviously been gone awhile and obviously not privy to the books so not sure how valid any of the above is at this point, but the point is this game rocks and I hope it stays around. :salute
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Didn't read the whole thread but I hope O.P knows that Papyrus became iRacing.com. They're now making one of the most sophisticated racing simulation on the market (iRacing). They've been able to make bank without diluting their product to appeal to the masses.
A company called Kunos Simulazioni, a company known for developing high end driving simulation software, are currently developing a racing simulation with the goal to appeal to the masses, they're making huge waves in that particular genre right now.
Both companies are indi developers, just like HTC.
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Hajo likewise old friend! I wasn't sure you were still here! Happy holidays! :salute
Brooke, it sounds like a great start to my AH return so I will surely sign up, just need to start an account after the holidays and get some rust of my stick!
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Ps.
Gman, weird, sorry I missed your post! This thread was moving so fast I might have missed more but just found the first one where you replied to me (amongst others). Glad to see you're still here as well as many others!
And yes, I do believe one of the photos of me became almost legendary :eek:I can't quite remember which one though but I do have a hunch! :lol
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Didn't read the whole thread but I hope O.P knows that Papyrus became iRacing.com. They're now making one of the most sophisticated racing simulation on the market (iRacing). They've been able to make bank without diluting their product to appeal to the masses.
A company called Kunos Simulazioni, a company known for developing high end driving simulation software, are currently developing a racing simulation with the goal to appeal to the masses, they're making huge waves in that particular genre right now.
Both companies are indi developers, just like HTC.
Well that depends on what you want to call independent. iRacing was backed by John Henry:
John William Henry II (born September 13, 1949) is an American businessman and investor. He founded John W. Henry & Company (JWH). He is the principal owner of the The Boston Globe, Boston Red Sox and Liverpool Football Club, and co-owner of Roush Fenway Racing. In March 2006, Boston Magazine estimated Henry's net worth at $1.1 billion
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John William Henry II (born September 13, 1949) is an American businessman and investor. He founded John W. Henry & Company (JWH). He is the principal owner of the The Boston Globe, Boston Red Sox and Liverpool Football Club, and co-owner of Roush Fenway Racing. In March 2006, Boston Magazine estimated Henry's net worth at $1.1 billion
Anyone know if he likes flight sims?..............
Cavalry
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I support the game too as I slowly get my gaming setup back in place. Though I haven't played for months I am excited and intend to be part of the future here.
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Okay, you may not like this but I got some stone cold theory for ya Hitech.
If the key is to get more players to sign up for the $15 a month and you think players won't stick around for too long, but if you can get thousands of new players to sign up for at least one month than you'll be okay. Here is the solution.
Open the F2P H2H servers like you use to have. Except limit the plane/tank choices and ordenance. Roughly the same amount of players will stay in the MA. What will happen is that people will get curious about the "big MA" with allthe planes/tanks, all the ord, and still keep the eny and perk count. It gives them an incentive to try out the MA and pay that 15$ for the month. Those that sign up will get hooked.
It gives people a chance to play and learn the game with limited aspects to the game and limited planes to which they can start learning. The MA will have its superiority presence as being the "next step up". This way you get tons and tons of new players to check out the game. Those who cannot afford the game still get to play and be apart of it. And you consider that some of those people will eventually sign up for the " more fun and bigger ranked" MA for at least one month.
There will always be those players who play for free, and always be those who will pay. But the majority of people who pay will stick around, while new members will sign up for that month and get hooked. There has to be a greater incentive to attract players and I think this is your best bet. The F2p gaming is taking over so you have to compete by giving people a chance to enjoy and get into the game. People will pay for greater incentives and more to do, so they will sign up at least for one month to check out all the hype.
Here is your new attraction.
Any thoughts?
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Well that depends on what you want to call independent. iRacing was backed by John Henry:
John William Henry II (born September 13, 1949) is an American businessman and investor. He founded John W. Henry & Company (JWH). He is the principal owner of the The Boston Globe, Boston Red Sox and Liverpool Football Club, and co-owner of Roush Fenway Racing. In March 2006, Boston Magazine estimated Henry's net worth at $1.1 billion
iRacing is an independent developer because they self-publish their own title and don't need to rely on another company to publish and distribute their game.
ack-ack
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Well that depends on what you want to call independent. iRacing was backed by John Henry:
John William Henry II (born September 13, 1949) is an American businessman and investor. He founded John W. Henry & Company (JWH). He is the principal owner of the The Boston Globe, Boston Red Sox and Liverpool Football Club, and co-owner of Roush Fenway Racing. In March 2006, Boston Magazine estimated Henry's net worth at $1.1 billion
What Ack-Ack said.
Also, from what I remember reading on the iRacing forum. The service funds it's own development.
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What Ack-Ack said.
Also, from what I remember reading on the iRacing forum. The service funds it's own development.
Which is why John Henry bought in....ROI, lol. :D
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I love your enthusiam. You've been around since 2012? Back in the day....you have no idea though keep up the good cheer. There is a reason those who have been around a long time are so very concerned.
Well , been around since 2nd beta, and I agree with the kid^ =)
This IS the greatest sim....
Just such an unwelcoming enviornment to newbs. Ive seen 4 or 5 vets of 5+ years DOGPILE on some newguy on country channel cause some newguy is asking questions.
Best thing, IMO we could do is......if you have a squaddie or friend who loves to constantly mouth off and berate those with less experience or skill-
Ask them to ease off JUST a bit? Do it privately and gently, plant the seed. Some seem to enjoy complaining n fighting more than play, ask them too, even the notorious ones.
Tough learning curve for newbs, they dont need hate from thier own side.
elfy
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just my .02
I've been paying and playing for over 7 yrs. as I've said before best thing about AH for me is the actual fight. I continue to pay each month even tho some tours I don't even put in 10 hrs of flight time. but I'll still pay each month to have that lil bit of fun to be at my disposal when I can log-in. :salute
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$15 used to be one hour of flying time at one point in Air Warrior. ;)
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I seem to remember paying $30 USD per month to play WarBirds.
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Funny, i remember discussions just like this on Warbirds forum in 1999 :) Similar recommendations, similar grapes.
prabably there was one on AW boards too :)
As they say, more things change......more they stay the same.
Heyya HT, two weeks ? ;)
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I seem to remember paying $30 USD per month to play WarBirds.
I used to pay $30 a month to play THIS
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$15 used to be one hour of flying time at one point in Air Warrior. ;)
Really? I remember it being $6/hr. (Which, to me, because there was no local dialup number for GEnie, became $12/hr with long distance charges.) At any rate, some people would rack up many hundreds of dollars a month.
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Okay, you may not like this but I got some stone cold theory for ya Hitech.
If the key is to get more players to sign up for the $15 a month and you think players won't stick around for too long, but if you can get thousands of new players to sign up for at least one month than you'll be okay. Here is the solution.
Open the F2P H2H servers like you use to have. Except limit the plane/tank choices and ordenance. Roughly the same amount of players will stay in the MA. What will happen is that people will get curious about the "big MA" with allthe planes/tanks, all the ord, and still keep the eny and perk count. It gives them an incentive to try out the MA and pay that 15$ for the month. Those that sign up will get hooked.
It gives people a chance to play and learn the game with limited aspects to the game and limited planes to which they can start learning. The MA will have its superiority presence as being the "next step up". This way you get tons and tons of new players to check out the game. Those who cannot afford the game still get to play and be apart of it. And you consider that some of those people will eventually sign up for the " more fun and bigger ranked" MA for at least one month.
There will always be those players who play for free, and always be those who will pay. But the majority of people who pay will stick around, while new members will sign up for that month and get hooked. There has to be a greater incentive to attract players and I think this is your best bet. The F2p gaming is taking over so you have to compete by giving people a chance to enjoy and get into the game. People will pay for greater incentives and more to do, so they will sign up at least for one month to check out all the hype.
Here is your new attraction.
Any thoughts?
This...! Give it a shot. I have snooped a few games thoug this is the only I play. It seems many games have a free level then buy into higher assets.
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I also only play AH but I've looked at other games. A lot are free to play (F2P). But that can be implemented nicely where microtransactions apparently are only for cosmetic improvements not affecting game play (i.e. a nicer hat for your character), or not so nicely, where you can buy more capable machines for real (and often significant) cash. And this can be taken even further to where you can buy super weapons that may never have even existed. In a new space simulation game some ships are more than a hundred real dollars and if it gets destroyed it's another >hundred real dollars for another one (unless you have been keeping up your real dollar insurance premiums). I am not sure I would want to play a game with in-determinant, and possibly very high, continuing costs. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy paying insurance premiums.
One thing I did notice from looking at the popular games on Steam: man the graphics are good. As mentioned by someone in this post, Euro Truck Simulator actually not only exists, but is popular, and has really beautiful graphics. And it's is a true simulator: it's not monster trucks smashing into each other as you would expect, it's a simulation of a trucking company where you drive around Europe delivering goods. And it's got more than 50 times as many people playing it right now that the typical peak AH usage.
Now I admit that good graphics might not be important to a lot of people, but it sure helps draw people in.
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Well 715, I am not implying micro incentives like, buy this airplane for 5 dollars so you can be better than everyone else....
Basically you would sign up for the month for $15 to be able to fly the better planes in an arena where everyone gets the same type of planes so that the game is still "fair" if you will. Yet you'd still have the perk system for the temp and f4u4 and 262 ect, so there is still more incentive to play longer in order to get those perk points to fly better planes.
Basically the H2H would be a marketing tool.
Imagine logging on, doing a few warmup rounds in the H2H. Then saying, see you guys later I'm going to MA! People will be intrigued, asking questions about the MA, what's better about it, so on and so forth. So this will also put it in their minds that gee, maybe the $15 for the MA is actually worth it. "I wonder what flying the p51D instead of the B is like. Boom they will sign up so they can try the p51D.
Plus you have the whole ranked aspect of it.
In H2H it won't count kills and deaths like it does in the MA. For many new players rank is something that apeals to them.
So all in all, it's not the pay 2$ for this great upgrade type of incentive. It's pay $15 for the better planes andmore ordendance in a much larger arena with more to do. That way the game is still " fair" for everyone in the MA.
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been $14.95 since I've been playing. so still no complaints. :cheers:
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I miss H2H, I miss making small maps and fighting in them.
NUTTZ
AKA. AKNUTTZ.
AKA. -WN-
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Are you implying paying $14.95 doesn't give us a seat on the board of directors? It's an outrage, I say! :old:
Same as renting a car does not make you a board member of car rental co. You can make suggestions but they probably won't listen to you :x :old:
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:airplane: What I find interesting is that HT has not raised the rate since I started playing in 2005, I see some players play 10 hours a month that is $1.50 hour pretty damn cheap. Others play 100 hours a month that $.15 hour :joystick: does not get any better than that.
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I also only play AH but I've looked at other games. A lot are free to play (F2P). But that can be implemented nicely where microtransactions apparently are only for cosmetic improvements not affecting game play (i.e. a nicer hat for your character), or not so nicely, where you can buy more capable machines for real (and often significant) cash. And this can be taken even further to where you can buy super weapons that may never have even existed. In a new space simulation game some ships are more than a hundred real dollars and if it gets destroyed it's another >hundred real dollars for another one (unless you have been keeping up your real dollar insurance premiums). I am not sure I would want to play a game with in-determinant, and possibly very high, continuing costs. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy paying insurance premiums.
One thing I did notice from looking at the popular games on Steam: man the graphics are good. As mentioned by someone in this post, Euro Truck Simulator actually not only exists, but is popular, and has really beautiful graphics. And it's is a true simulator: it's not monster trucks smashing into each other as you would expect, it's a simulation of a trucking company where you drive around Europe delivering goods. And it's got more than 50 times as many people playing it right now that the typical peak AH usage.
Now I admit that good graphics might not be important to a lot of people, but it sure helps draw people in.
Sounds like bomber pilots... :D
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Really? I remember it being $6/hr. (Which, to me, because there was no local dialup number for GEnie, became $12/hr with long distance charges.) At any rate, some people would rack up many hundreds of dollars a month.
Before it was $6/hour, I think it was $6/hour for base GEnie access, then a premium for some of the multiplayer games (like Air Warrior, Isle of Kesmai, the mech battle thing, etc.) that took it to $10/hour or more. My memory of those days is far from perfect, though.
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Shrug! No the days of Warbirds and pay for play was terrible! Add the x amount of dollars per hour to the phone bills of that day (before that went flat rate in Sweden as well) and I could hardly afford to play at all.
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All I remember is that open eyed stare that my wife ... fiance at the time... lol.... was giving me after she opened the Visa card bill after the second month of Air Warrior .... the first month snuck through because the billing hadn't caught up yet.
Needless to say, flying times were greatly curtailed until AOL came out with the "included fee" play service.
Fun days - hard to say what the difference is, mostly I think the "newness" of the whole online multi-player game thing, I was a year or two late to the game compared to a lot of the players like Dok, Gonzo, Fidel, HiTech, .. etc. But you still felt the -newness- of the whole experience. The ability to share that experience and feel like you were part of something...
(How many here can say they were in the ONLY squad to ever close the one base in Air Warrior that was impossible to close? I had joined The Black Widows Squad - 2 weeks or so before.. Simple online game experience, still a huge memory...)
Today's new players can't have that experience, they have been playing computer games since they were just out of the crib.
This game is fun, incredible when you think of how people from around the world are literally sitting right next to you -talking, laughing and talking about personal things in each of our lives. I have been "friends" with people from the Philippines, Australia, England, Germany, Italy...etc..How cool is that?.....What a great experience it has been over the years, one I could or would not ever trade.
The only problem, as HiTech and the gang at HQ know, real life enters the equation, some can manage both- many-me included, can't juggle both. It isn't the money - even though updating a computer is sometimes daunting financially, I still think that eventually I will be back in my Spit 1 of death... lol
The only hope for them and for the players who want to continue this game, is if the current players are welcoming, are willing to drag new people to training for simple moves that may keep them alive long enough to say- hey that was fun- . But mostly you need players that everyone wants to strive to be as good at it as they are, and have a personality in game that everyone likes and appreciates.
There will always be the jerks who annoy everyone, chain pullers- they have always been part of the game - the ones who do it to have fun- they are great for the game, RuAmL comes to mind- he really was a funny guy, - the ones who do it to be mean- no one needs bullies and crybabies- even a simple online game -
My 2 cents
NwBie
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When it comes to cost, price structure is very important. People are looking at value differently and $14.95 is likely behind the curve. QE alone has hammered inflation, and $14.95 today is more like $10 5 years ago.
boo
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When it comes to cost, price structure is very important. People are looking at value differently and $14.95 is likely behind the curve. QE alone has hammered inflation, and $14.95 today is more like $10 5 years ago.
boo
IMO, $15 month is only psychologically expensive, unless you are out of a decent paying job. The key is to initially get new players to spend what sounds like a lot of money for a game per month. BF4 is $60 one time sign up, that's 4 months of AH ( not to mention new $60 download packs for the same game that you have to download). The key is to get people to pay that $15 per month and forget about it.
The only way that will happen on a larger scale is to convince players that there is a reason to initially sign up. That Is where the H2H and what I've offered in the past post bring up.
People think it is expensive at first because it Is a game they don't understand.
Open H2H, offer incentives like more plane choices, ord, and ranks in the MA a, use H2H as a marketing incentive to attract new players. And after a month or 2 they will feel comfortable to pay the $15 without being forced, which will then make them seem like the bill isn't big. They will get hooked and continue to pay the $15 per month.
This will bring higher margins and feed new players into the MA every month.
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Before it was $6/hour, I think it was $6/hour for base GEnie access, then a premium for some of the multiplayer games (like Air Warrior, Isle of Kesmai, the mech battle thing, etc.) that took it to $10/hour or more. My memory of those days is far from perfect, though.
it was something like that... I know I couldn't afford it as a 18 yr old punk kid. I was only able to play the trial "10 free hours!" or whatever it was (~1994-95)
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I have been supporting HTC since 2000, and will continue until they close the doors most likely, when ever that may be.
I agree that this is a nitch market game. I also agree that it doesn't translate to "mobile" gaming as well, However, I still believe that it can continue and maybe even grow, but there has got to be a lot done.
The games that thrive at this point are those with quick action. My son "the gamer" can't be bothered by this game only due to the time it takes to find a fight. The 12 hour rule needs to be relaxed, and the loss of dar issue needs to be addressed. These two things alone slow the action more than anything else.
The learning curve issue. Do you know why it's such an issue? Because the game is setup and played to make it very easy to hide/runaway from combat..... and this in a combat simulation game :rolleyes: Forcing the action to happen quicker will force players to fight. If you fight one fight a night you don't learn much. If your forced to fight 20 fights a night I think your going to learn a lot faster. Smaller maps with closer bases can accomplish this. Again, quicker action.
Prettier graphics. Sure this is going to help bring in new players..... as long as HTC lets the world know it has a new release. If they don't, nothing will change. They have begun a "word of mouth" campaign using social media. When was the last announcement on "facebook", October 9th. Hell I'm an old guy with mostly family following and I post more often than that! As a company that deals WITH their customers, HTC is top notch. I called once with a question about my account and Dale answered the phone (He said everyone else had gone out for pizza :D ), but as a company that is looking to expand it's player base..... you need a map and a magic compass to find any info on them.
I don't know how much longer until the new update comes out, tho I expect it is still months away, they should be posting everyday if not a couple times a day. It only takes a few seconds. A quick screen capture over a town in the update, post. a screen capture of a GV rolling through the new countryside, post. And so on and so on. Even if you post a dozen shots of GVs in a week people will hunt for anything that is in the background, generating "buzz" about the update. The more "buzz" the more likely search engines will pick up the info and get it out there. If you post daily, imagine the "buzz" you could build in a couple of months.... about the time of a possible new release maybe :devil
Typing "WWII flight sims" in Google doesn't bring up Aces High on the first page. It was on the second page, but how many people bother looking at a second page? HTC needs a PR person/group. They need to get info out there NOW to get things rolling for LATER. Flight/Combat sims are a smaller nitch market, but even then, why is HTC so low on google? Not enough buzz! Using social media to build buzz only works if you post, wheres the posts?
Yes I support HTC, for years and years, and I hope to support them for many years to come, but if they continue to turn a blind eye to the ever changing dynamics of the game and ever changing dynamics of the gamers world they will end up on the losing end as the game world rolls on by.
Agreed. All these years and you finaly spout something intellegent instead of the rubbish you usually crap on about.
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Any of the hundreds of customer suggestions to increase player base / business have basically gone ignored.
That would be because HTC are too arrogant to listen to the people who pay their bills. They are too busy listening to the handfull of sycophants that blo
w wind up their arses rather than fix the rubbish in game
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Agreed. All these years and you finaly spout something intellegent instead of the rubbish you usually crap on about.
I can't wait until tomorrow!
.....when your PNG starts :devil
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That would be because HTC are too arrogant to listen to the people who pay their bills. They are too busy listening to the handfull of sycophants that blo
w wind up their arses rather than fix the rubbish in game
I've seen many games die because the developers have listened too much to their customers. If you turned this into a democracy, defending bases would be illegal, combat would disappear altogether, and we'd get 10,000 perks for winning the war.
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That would be because HTC are too arrogant "..........
I was once arrogant........ now I am perfect! :old:
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This forum is bad for collecting quality feedback and suggestions for game owners, just polluted with spam from a small dozen of endless posters ; there are 1000s of paying customers never visiting this BB;
HTC team could come to MA during evenings are ask people what they want, run some polls;
imop, people behave different in groups vs solo ; can't motivate your platoon, regiment rewarding one soldier, he will start shooting his buddies to eliminate the competition and get the prize, ignoring the group mission.
Same in game now, i noticed players from same team even same sqd, arguing over some worthless bombing tgt middle of towns, obsessed with # of kills fighting over a cheap vulch , best camping spot, picking landing planes or racing to get first a base capture. This game want to have groups and massive multiplayers style rewarding individuals not groups, kind of MMO with first person shooter rewarding style; I see players avoiding the risks behind the computer screens, avoiding fight, filtering every action through score ranking system blended with some ego ;
For a new player, checking AH, this is what is going to see first; nothing personal to any names here, but this is my opinion;
(http://i.imgur.com/hwiXPETl.jpg)
This should look like, or atleast add the team results and pay 100 -200 perks for map won; 20 perks after 10 years ?! doesn't cover inflation cost;
(http://i.imgur.com/TiQfPKWl.jpg)
Some people love personal achievements but imop most of the core, including myself, still paying for this game are team oriented, I don't care about score, I want my team to win, ; ; If this game resets to 2001-2004, was more rewarding for team oriented players, maybe why we had double the numbers in MA;
I would change the map reset formula ,reducing % of bases captured needed and add strats HQ damage, eliminate large maps from rotation until the # are higher, reduce maps autoreset time to 36-48 hours and why not let people move change sides every 2-3 hours; towns were made too huge , lots of flack, Vbases from 1 to 4vhs+fh; bases more difficult to capture, and largeeee maps with 7 days auto-reset time;
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B.S.?? It has my name on it how could it be BS :old:
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:rofl ghi
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This forum is bad for collecting quality feedback and suggestions for game owners, just polluted with spam from a small dozen of endless posters ; there are 1000s of paying customers never visiting this BB;
HTC team could come to MA during evenings are ask people what they want, run some polls;
imop, people behave different in groups vs solo ; can't motivate your platoon, regiment rewarding one soldier, he will start shooting his buddies to eliminate the competition and get the prize, ignoring the group mission.
Same in game now, i noticed players from same team even same sqd, arguing over some worthless bombing tgt middle of towns, obsessed with # of kills fighting over a cheap vulch , best camping spot, picking landing planes or racing to get first a base capture. This game want to have groups and massive multiplayers style rewarding individuals not groups, kind of MMO with first person shooter rewarding style; I see players avoiding the risks behind the computer screens, avoiding fight, filtering every action through score ranking system blended with some ego ;
For a new player, checking AH, this is what is going to see first; nothing personal to any names here, but this is my opinion;
(http://i.imgur.com/hwiXPETl.jpg)
This should look like, or atleast add the team results and pay 100 -200 perks for map won; 20 perks after 10 years ?! doesn't cover inflation cost;
(http://i.imgur.com/TiQfPKWl.jpg)
Some people love personal achievements but imop most of the core, including myself, still paying for this game are team oriented, I don't care about score, I want my team to win, ; ; If this game resets to 2001-2004, was more rewarding for team oriented players, maybe why we had double the numbers in MA;
I would change the map reset formula ,reducing % of bases captured needed and add strats HQ damage, eliminate large maps from rotation until the # are higher, reduce maps autoreset time to 36-48 hours and why not let people move change sides every 2-3 hours; towns were made too huge , lots of flack, Vbases from 1 to 4vhs+fh; bases more difficult to capture, and largeeee maps with 7 days auto-reset time;
SO how would you fix the issue of a player who comes in and kills ord, and radar, then bails from a perfectly good plane instead of fighting his way back to friendly territory? To me and many others thats isn't how you should play the game. I think that "death" should count toward the players team as well. After all this is a game of combat and you must fight to win the war, or are you looking to avoid all combat and win the war by rolling bases with hordes?
If seen you and many of your bishlings do this in the "team play" you seem to enjoy.
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ghi put down the lipstick, walk away with your hands in the air, and no one gets hurt :devil
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ghi just photobombed this thread. lol. He's still mad they took away F3 in IL-2's. :rofl :rofl
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SO how would you fix the issue of a player who comes in and kills ord, and radar, then bails from a perfectly good plane instead of fighting his way back to friendly territory? To me and many others thats isn't how you should play the game. I think that "death" should count toward the players team as well. After all this is a game of combat and you must fight to win the war, or are you looking to avoid all combat and win the war by rolling bases with hordes?
If seen you and many of your bishlings do this in the "team play" you seem to enjoy.
The death should have much more penalty than it does now. Lawndarting or bailing deep in enemy country with no enemies in the instant vicinity should equal 'true death' and loss of most score. Somehow the game should discourage gamey and irritating player behaviour.
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SO how would you fix the issue of a player who comes in and kills ord, and radar, then bails from a perfectly good plane instead of fighting his way back to friendly territory? To me and many others thats isn't how you should play the game. I think that "death" should count toward the players team as well. After all this is a game of combat and you must fight to win the war, or are you looking to avoid all combat and win the war by rolling bases with hordes?
If seen you and many of your bishlings do this in the "team play" you seem to enjoy.
The death should have much more penalty than it does now. Lawndarting or bailing deep in enemy country with no enemies in the instant vicinity should equal 'true death' and loss of most score. Somehow the game should discourage gamey and irritating player behaviour.
You must not really have a spouse and certainly no children. Sorry, selfish and self-centered, that (especially if you do have one or both of the aforementioned) [either yas].
Anyhoo .... that really doesn't have anything to do with supporting the game and community.
Merry after-Christmas and Happy New Year.
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Lawndarting or bailing deep in enemy country with no enemies in the instant vicinity should equal 'true death' and loss of most score.
It's as much a true death as getting shot down. Score points for the sortie reduced by 60% to 75% and the usual hit on all death related scoring categories like K/D or Damage/Death
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You must not really have a spouse and certainly no children. Sorry, selfish and self-centered, that (especially if you do have one or both of the aforementioned) [either yas].
Anyhoo .... that really doesn't have anything to do with supporting the game and community.
Merry after-Christmas and Happy New Year.
I'm happily married with 2 children thank you very much! So you think that anyone hating gamey dweebs who thrive in making others gameplay worse (by milkrunning fields/stats/HQ and escaping when there's even a sign of fight) must be somehow antisocial?
Crazy but I thought the complete opposite.
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I'm happily married with 2 children thank you very much! So you think that anyone hating gamey dweebs who thrive in making others gameplay worse (by milkrunning fields/stats/HQ and escaping when there's even a sign of fight) must be somehow antisocial?
Crazy but I thought the complete opposite.
No. I think if a fellow player's kid has an injury or his wife says the water broke or there's a call saying one of his parents is dying in the hospital that you are gonna be sooooo pissed he didn't stay in the game long enough to let you close for the kill or at least explain it to you first to earn your understanding.
Cod, I hate it when i have to explain life/obvious stuff to someone who thinks they're on the real ball. :aok
Your suggestion to 'improve the game' is 'blah blah blah' (something makes me angry, code it away). :D
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No. I think if a fellow player's kid has an injury or his wife says the water broke or there's a call saying one of his parents is dying in the hospital that you are gonna be sooooo pissed he didn't stay in the game long enough to let you close for the kill or at least explain it to you first to earn your understanding.
Cod, I hate it when i have to explain life/obvious stuff to someone who thinks they're on the real ball. :aok
Your suggestion to 'improve the game' is 'blah blah blah' (something makes me angry, code it away). :D
In that case you can always hit shift+x and leave your plane pointing at home. Besides if your family is in dire trouble, you worry about game points? Really?
Cod I hate people inventing excuses for being lame gamey dweebs.
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In that case you can always hit shift+x and leave your plane pointing at home. Besides if your family is in dire trouble, you worry about game points? Really?
Cod I hate people inventing excuses for being lame gamey dweebs.
I'm sorry. I broke my new rule of not bothering with stupid ideas posted on the forum that won't be taken seriously since it involves just someone's personal frustration and offers no true merit, at all.
Have one on me. :cheers:
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I'm sorry. I broke my new rule of not bothering with stupid ideas posted on the forum that won't be taken seriously since it involves just someone's personal frustration and offers no true merit, at all.
Have one on me. :cheers:
Keep milkrunning towns and strats oh smell of game death.
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Keep milkrunning towns and strats oh smell of game death.
(http://replygif.net/i/102.gif)
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In all honesty Bald Eagle, I cannot recommend Aces High in its current form to anyone or try to bring back
old friends and pilots to it.
QFT :aok
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Is there no support group hosting a forum for those who don't play or support this game elsewhere? Helluva place to stay after you leave. :aok
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In all honesty Bald Eagle, I cannot recommend Aces High in its current form to anyone or try to bring back
old friends and pilots to it.
Well that's fine, but I wonder what games you do recommend to anyone.
- oldman
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Arlo,
1.5 - 2 years in this game is getting a bit old. 3 years is about the shelf life, and your wish list posts tend to be based on boredom or revenge for getting gamed. Past that, we are anomalies, and HiTech is not targeting us for anything. None of this audience listens to him anymore, and constantly create posts to validate their personal opinions about everything he is failing at in their august opinions. Like Italian relatives over Christmas dinner who tell you exactly why you should serve their ages old recipes in your Sushi bar to bring in more customers. A restaurant is a restaurant after all.
And why would you change your product for old customers who are only occasional or none purchasers, or customers who have been around so long they do not represent a "target demographic"? And many of them are convinced they should be in your company management's strategy meetings because only they have the years of experience to save the product.
If HiTech were talking to any of these gentlemen behind the scenes about his company's future, they would have dropped out of this post by now. The only thing they are accomplishing is scaring away the odd random viewer who happened to find these forums.
If anything, their constant posting about this at any opportunity is helping to scare away new customers. Either they are shills for the competition or, they want revenge on HiTech for not listening to them over the years. Publicly airing these things if any of them have been turned down after privately communicating with HTC, is revenge however you slice it.
Will any of this negativity end with the release of AH3? I doubt it. They will find something new to not like. This is why we anomalies are not worth listening to as seriously past our "shelf life".
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I dunno. Classics tend to have a longer shelf life than FITP (flash in the pan). :D
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110307185141/fairlyoddparents/en/images/9/99/ShelfLife122.png)
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Why do folks keep suggesting that it should hurt your score more when bailing from a perfectly good plane??? How is that going to "fix" it? Answer this then: What makes you think they are going to care then, when they do it now? :headscratch:
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This one has run its life and is way beyond off topic.