General Forums => Open Beta Test => Topic started by: Waffle on February 19, 2015, 10:22:11 AM
Title: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on February 19, 2015, 10:22:11 AM
Gonna start this thread for the Terrain Editor. if you have any use questions post them here.
Note: Some of the instructions could change / folder locations moved, ect.. throughout the alpha.
/**********************************************************************/ Been working on the custom terrain tiles, it should all be working for the next release. Here is a sample set that can be used as the starting point.
In the terrset00 folder there are 4 .txt files.
These files define the inputs for the atlases to be made. For the sample we have all the bmp in a texsrc folder, but they can be anywhere. But I would suggest you maintain this structure. When we name ours we give the bmp meaningful names like dryshrub or farm1 excreta. These simply need to be put in the atlas.txt files. For the example I simply named them according to there Type #.
Also when you lay them out keep transitions in mind. When you have a type 2 and a type 10 next to each other the terrain will transition threw 8 different terrain types. So it is best to keep similar types next to each other.
You can include multiple terrain sets in each terrain.
The sizes and type of format used for each file must be maintained.
The basic extensions are _a0 terrain detail type. _n normal map, and _b1 is the spec channel.
then any file with the clutter in the name defines where ground clutter lays on the tiles.
When the terrain editor starts it puts all these into 4 atlas files. They are then saved in the terrsetxx folder.
The object editor will also supports opening these files bmp files, and you can create tree layouts for the tile which are put into other folders under terrsetXX.
This is all the source texture files for the terrain release terrain sets It also includes the detail textures and all corresponding atlas.txt files.
To modify detail atlases put the objdet.txt or the terrdet.txt in the terrsetxx folder and change the names of each texture.
the detail textures do not have a diffuse channel the have a normal map _N ,_A1 Specular and _B1 is a lighting detail grey 129 is no change less the 128 is darken greater the 128 is brighten.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on February 19, 2015, 10:23:08 AM
Editing Terrains with L3DT Pro (www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/) *we would reccomend purchasing the professional version of this software if you wish to use it for creating, editing or converting of Aces High Terrains.
Conversion of Existing Terrains:
Open the Aces High Terrain editor and Choose "File" > "Convert 2.0 Terrain."
Select the directory of the old terrain that you want to convert. Click "ok" and the conversion begins.
The new files will be written to a folder in the"GTTEST / AH3TERR directory. Open the folder and then the files to begin editing.
To edit heightfeilds in L3DT pro, Open your converted terrain and click "export" in the AH terrain editor. It will create a file called "height.raw" in your converted terrain folder. This will be the file that gets imported into L3DT to edit the height. Getting the "height.raw" file into L3DT:
Open L3dt Pro and select "File > Import > Heightfield" and point it towards the "height.raw" file.
Enter "660" in the Horizontal Scale data box. Click "ok"
Enter "4096" for both the Width and Height
Set mode to "16-bit signed" with the "Invert Y Axis" checkbox checked. Click "Ok"
Now you can edit the height field in L3DT
Getting your Heightfield from L3DT back into AH.
-Choose "File > Export > active map layer"
-Select "Raw" as your File format and select the directory where you want to export it.
-Click the option button and set mode to "16-bit Signed (manual scale)" and "Invert Y" to "true"
-Export the Raw file and name it "height.raw" and place in your working terrain folder.
-Open the AH editor and Click on import to import the modified height map.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: jimson on February 19, 2015, 10:28:31 AM
What is L3DT pro?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on February 19, 2015, 10:30:52 AM
It's a terrain sculpting tool that has some more features that our editor. It also has some very quick terrain generation tools as well as laying out ground type data.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on February 19, 2015, 05:12:04 PM
Not one to but am i able to use the standard version of L3DT to make terrains for the game???
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 19, 2015, 07:26:16 PM
The individual license for the Pro version is $34.95. Not bad for a program of this caliber.
Waffle so did your geologic strata effects come with this product or allowed you to create and tile all of the elevation faces at the same time?
Great work by the way on the new terrain. It looked like glacial carved features.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on February 19, 2015, 09:56:21 PM
Does anyone one have a "basic terrain starter setup" ? Something to start building on immediately. Also an Editor Keyboard Ref. sheet would be nice for those of us just beginning with Terrain Editor.
So much to learn, so little time. :joystick:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Dragon Tamer on February 19, 2015, 10:25:24 PM
Is there some special trick to getting files to save in the TE? Whenever I try to save my work it's not there when I go back. In the previous version it would automatically open the last project I was working on, I liked this feature a lot.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 19, 2015, 11:54:53 PM
Does anyone one have a "basic terrain starter setup" ? Something to start building on immediately.
Gimme a day.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 20, 2015, 07:22:23 AM
What are the names of the textures now, so we can use our custom textures please? Still go in the texsrc folder? ALL of my terrains on the server use custom textures and I'm going to have a load of updating to do at the proper time. Plus, since many of my terrains "pushed the limits" of the old system, it will help me to report any bugs in the TE with as much info as possible when it comes to which files/folders are still used and what is new. Please? :pray
:salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on February 20, 2015, 08:07:36 AM
Having first cup of coffe and getting ready to blow some minds. Here's the texture names : Atlas0 Atlas1
Will post some more on this later.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on February 20, 2015, 08:08:31 AM
OK now you have my attention...LOL
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Ratsy on February 20, 2015, 08:37:49 AM
This explains a lot. My fragile little ego has been crushed with the frustration of not having a clue about how to meet the test objectives. Prior to this alpha, I have never even opened the Terrain Editor. When I did, for the alpha test, I was embarrassed that I couldn't even figure out how to place a tile onto the grid. :frown:
Thanks, Waffle, for the information. I can see this is beyond my interest in Combat Simulations. Heck, I still struggle with the shot setups in the film editor.
Hail to all terrain-making people!
:salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: wpeters on February 20, 2015, 11:13:32 AM
What are the names of the textures now, so we can use our custom textures please? Still go in the texsrc folder? ALL of my terrains on the server use custom textures and I'm going to have a load of updating to do at the proper time. Plus, since many of my terrains "pushed the limits" of the old system, it will help me to report any bugs in the TE with as much info as possible when it comes to which files/folders are still used and what is new. Please? :pray
:salute
I don't believe you will be able to embed terrain textures in the terrains any longer, but you will be able to make a new terrain texture set, notice the current terrset0.res and terrset01.res ?
The set consists of 20 textures 4 of them 1016x1016 and 16 508x508.
Now it is not just the diffuse set you will have to make. You also need to make up a vector map, a specular map, a clutter map.
Then for each type you will need to make up a layout using the object editor, or possible some other tool , to create the tree layout of each tile type.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 21, 2015, 09:58:57 AM
Challenge accepted!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 22, 2015, 11:24:22 AM
Editing Terrains with L3DT Pro (www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/) *we would reccomend purchasing the professional version of this software if you wish to use it for creating, editing or converting of Aces High Terrains.
Conversion of Existing Terrains:
Open the Aces High Terrain editor and Choose "File" > "Convert 2.0 Terrain."
Select the directory of the old terrain that you want to convert. Click "ok" and the conversion begins.
The new files will be written to a folder in the"GTTEST / AH3TERR directory. Open the folder and then the files to begin editing.
To edit heightfeilds in L3DT pro, Open your converted terrain and click "export" in the AH terrain editor. It will create a file called "height.raw" in your converted terrain folder. This will be the file that gets imported into L3DT to edit the height. Getting the "height.raw" file into L3DT:
Open L3dt Pro and select "File > Import > Heightfield" and point it towards the "height.raw" file.
Enter "660" in the Horizontal Scale data box. Click "ok"
Enter "4096" for both the Width and Height
Set mode to "16-bit signed" with the "Invert Y Axis" checkbox checked. Click "Ok"
Now you can edit the height field in L3DT
Getting your Heightfield from L3DT back into AH.
-Choose "File > Export > active map layer"
-Select "Raw" as your File format and select the directory where you want to export it.
-Click the option button and set mode to "16-bit Signed (manual scale)" and "Invert Y" to "true"
-Export the Raw file and name it "height.raw" and place in your working terrain folder.
-Open the AH editor and Click on import to import the modified height map.
Quote
I don't believe you will be able to embed terrain textures in the terrains any longer, but you will be able to make a new terrain texture set, notice the current terrset0.res and terrset01.res ?
The set consists of 20 textures 4 of them 1016x1016 and 16 508x508.
Now it is not just the diffuse set you will have to make. You also need to make up a vector map, a specular map, a clutter map.
Then for each type you will need to make up a layout using the object editor, or possible some other tool , to create the tree layout of each tile type.
HiTech
I'm going to save info like these in a text file, so when the new version is out, I'll do my best to make a tutorial for the Terrain Editor forum. I still have so many questions for HTC, Midi, & the Terrain CMs. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 22, 2015, 11:36:10 AM
Will we see a new object editor so I can fix my "fixme" files...LoL.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 22, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
Will we see a new object editor so I can fix my "fixme" files...LoL.
I think that it is in a releasable state, or at least very close . I'll see what I can do for the next patch.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 22, 2015, 04:03:12 PM
Thanks Dale...
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 22, 2015, 04:11:10 PM
:rock
Keep that Editors work comin'!!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on February 24, 2015, 03:30:09 PM
L3DT playing
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: wpeters on February 24, 2015, 03:49:00 PM
Can someone post a tutorial on the basics of terrain editor.. I am lost when trying to figure it out. Just a short video showing the basics of how it is done would be a huge help. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 24, 2015, 08:26:13 PM
I will when we have the info. Not a whole lot to go on at this point.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 25, 2015, 05:25:09 AM
It's for the existing Terrain editor not the AH3 version but it will give you an idea..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nJs8azcLQg
midi
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 27, 2015, 07:18:55 AM
Waffle, Dale..... I've added my custom .shp files to the usrlib folder how ever the object editor is not picking them up. Only reason I am stating this is most of the newer SEA terrains have custom objects in them. Some even have quite a few custom objects. Battle Ship Row in the hawaii terrain is now a saloon with all the beer bottles..LOL
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 27, 2015, 01:41:49 PM
Waffle, Dale..... I've added my custom .shp files to the usrlib folder how ever the object editor is not picking them up. Only reason I am stating this is most of the newer SEA terrains have custom objects in them. Some even have quite a few custom objects. Battle Ship Row in the hawaii terrain is now a saloon with all the beer bottles..LOL
they will need to be rebuilt
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 27, 2015, 06:37:41 PM
The terrains or the objects. Objects where not build with AC3D.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 27, 2015, 08:23:05 PM
Objects
New bshpdx8
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: jimson on February 27, 2015, 08:30:30 PM
bshpdx8?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on February 27, 2015, 08:32:28 PM
10-4 boss
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on February 27, 2015, 10:37:35 PM
I cannot import a ground texture into the new Object Editor. Does it use something other than a 1024x1024 8-bit .bmp to work now?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on March 02, 2015, 10:38:26 PM
The issue with the texture selection box being black when you first start the TE is still present. Use must select one of the other tabs (such as Objects), then click back on the terrain tab for the textures to appear in the box.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on March 04, 2015, 06:40:59 AM
.oba file is now created.
splat map however has all the water black and all the land red.
custom objects show up blue in the editor.. see attached image
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 04, 2015, 09:53:00 AM
Now I know most of you guys (and gals) have been creating maps for AvA and Special events for some time. Me, I'm a noob at this. Is there anyplace I can go to get the basic sequence of events/files to generate a new map? I can play with new terrain editor, but I have no idea what I'm doing, thus my impact on the effort is minimal.
There, I have had my whine. :devil
Just wanting to help and don't know how. :joystick:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on March 04, 2015, 10:08:45 AM
splat map however has all the water black and all the land red.
custom objects show up blue in the editor.. see attached image
The material table has completely changed. How many shapes do you need to fix up?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: MachNix on March 04, 2015, 11:54:19 AM
The terrain looks solid from a distance but holes appear as you move closer. The elevation was set to 20 feet and a small brush was used to fill in a 3x3 grid (v47_TE_TerrA.jpg). As the view moved in, holes started appearing as the level of detail changed (v47_TE_TerrB.jpg). It is impossible to ensure complete coverage over a large area unless there is some technique I don't know about. Recommend having a check box to lock the level of detail to its highest level.
The method of using the A, D, etc. keys to move the view was frustrating while setting elevations. I was using the "(3) Set Alt" method to set the elevations. After typing the value for the elevation, the focus would remain in the text box. Pressing any of the view keys would only type in the text box and not move the view. The elevation would ignore the string of letters but you would have to arrow back to the beginning to change the altitude. I would have to use the tab key to tab out of any textboxes for the view keys to work.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on March 04, 2015, 06:30:22 PM
The new TE is awesome, yet the hardest friggin' thing to figure out, I swear. A ReadMe file with how the changes work is needed for us TE dummies. :pray
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 68falcon on March 08, 2015, 09:28:11 PM
TE dummies like me :pray
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on March 08, 2015, 10:10:39 PM
The following is a copy of the ReadMe file from when the last TE version was released, as an example of what we need:
New Features
Ability to "paint" terrain textures on land using scalable brushes. Ability to draw shorelines as well as water depth and water color using scaleable brushes
Terrain: Land Texture Specifications
Texture sizes are Tileable 1024x1024 and cover a 4 sqr. mile area (2miles x 2miles)
Texture Names: Textures are named "nttXXXX"
ntt0000 Deep water ntt0000 will always be deep water (This is a greyscale BMP designed to vary the water over distances) ntt0001 Grass ntt0002 Forest 1 (evergreen) ntt0003 Forest 2 (deciduous) ntt0004 Farm 1 ntt0005 Farm 2 ntt0006 Rock ntt0007 Swamp ntt0008 Rocky Grass ntt0009 Sandy Grass ntt0010 Beach ntt0011 River bed / ntt0012 Snow / Coral
The terrain tab in the editor will allow you to select a brush size and texture type to paints. You are also able to blend 2 textures while painting.
The editor will create a file in your terrain directory named gndtype.bmp. This greyscale.bmp sets the terrain types over the terrain. It is 4096x4096 resolution. 1 pixel on this texture is equal to 1/8th of a mile.
Editing gndtype.bmp outside of the terrain editor:
The gndtype.bmp can be edited in photoshop or other graphic editing software.You may find it easier to edit types in a paint program outside of painting in the editor. Be sure you are working in greyscale mode. (sgrey profile for photshops users)
RGB values for blending formula: (texture A ntt number * 16 + texture B ntt number) = blended RGB
So say we want to blend ntt0001 with ntt0010: (1 / 10)
01 * 16 = 16 16 + 10 = 26 26 is rgb for ntt0001/ntt0010 blend
or we can blend ntt0012 and ntt0006 (12 / 6)
12 * 16 = 192 192 + 6 = 198 198 is RGB for ntt0012/ntt006 blend
WATER
there will be a waterd.htz and a waterc.htz file in your terrain folder now. the waterd.htz is for water depth, and waterc.htz is for water color.
The Water tab in the editor will allow you to draw/erase water, set the water depth and even color.
Converting/Creating a Terrain:
First - open an existing terrain with the new editor. There will be a delay as the program creates the new files (waterd.htz, waterc.htz, gndtype.bmp as well as a few others)
After the files are generated you should see the terrain, but it will be blocky. Here you have a choice - edit the shorelines in the Terrain editor, or use an external graphics program (photoshop).
Go File » 'export water bitmap' - This will create 2 16384x16384 bitmaps named waterd.bmp and waterc.bmp. They will be in the texsrc folder.
Open the waterd.bmp in your graphics program.
You will see a black and white image of the terrain. Black (rgb 0,0,0) is water, White (rgb 255,255,255) is land. RGB values less than 255.255.255 will be water depth.
Now you can paint your new shorelines.
Once finished, save it as an 8 bit greyscale BMP in your texsrc folder.
Open the Terrain Editor, goto file »import water bitmap.
Your edited water will now display.
Hint for smooth water depth from shore - select color range 255,255,255 - create a new layer and fill selection with white. Duplicate this layer then blur it a few pixels to make a smooth shallow transition in the water. You can also smudge this layer to create shallow transitions in water.
After you have your land/water done it's time to do the terrain types.
Open your Waterd.bmp with graphics program
Open your gndtype.bmp with graphics program - convert to greyscale.
Copy and paste onto a new layer within the gndtype.bmp the waterd.bmp. You will have to reduce the scale.
Select color range (255,255,255) on the resized color layer.
Now increase the selection size about 4 pixels. (Select - modify - expand in photoshops)
Create a new layer and fill selection with rgb 170 (ntt0010 - or beach/sand)
Save gndtype.bmp as 8 bit greyscale in the terrain folder overwriting the existing one.
Open your terrain in the editor - you should now see all sandy terrain and water.
From here you can go back into your graphics program and fill out the different types of terrain.
Water tricks tips.
Say you want to have some brown muddy lakes, next to greenish river which flows into a blue sea. The editor is set up to use wnttXXXX bmps, which are underwater textures that correspond to the ground nttxxxx texture.
So wntt0001 would display wherever ntt0001 type turns into water. Hence HTCs setup for ntt0012 being snow/coral. When we draw ntt0012 on land it displays as snow...but when you put water over it, it displays wntt0012 texture which is coral.
So if you want some brown ponds in your farm land, you could create a wntt0003, and wntt0004 texture.
It's pretty much open to whatever you can think of.
Also, since these textures are underwater, they don't need to be large textures, you can make them 256x256 or 128x128.
SETTINGS: Terrain Type Settings.
Here is where you can set up the names for your textures, as well as change the base colors for ocean / river color. There is also a "chage selected color" button which allows you to change the displayed color for the terrain type on low detailed settings. You will find a "low detail" check box on the lower left to see what the terrain will look like in low detail.
Elevation tab:
Water not 0. Water must be at 0 elevation. Running this check will display water vertices that are not at 0. There is now a check box to show affected cells. You will have to paint land over any water not 0 , or set the elevation of any non-0 vertices to 0.
This ReadMe right here had me rockin' on the first day. Without something for this TE version, I truly believe most people are going to have a very hard time figuring it out on their own. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on March 09, 2015, 06:32:31 AM
I'm sure there will be more information for the editors released as we get further along. In the mean time keep notes on things as you learn them and maybe we can put together another collection of "For Dummies" tutorials.
:salute midi
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on March 10, 2015, 11:08:02 PM
I'm sure there will be more information for the editors released as we get further along. In the mean time keep notes on things as you learn them and maybe we can put together another collection of "For Dummies" tutorials.
:salute midi
Like me?????
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 11, 2015, 06:09:33 PM
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on March 13, 2015, 03:43:05 PM
Just wondering. Besides the UFO and lazer, spiral lazer beams I found with the new object editor. I found an under wind gun pod with twin barrels that looked an awful lot like the German under wing pods for the FW190. Or the pods for the A26.
There is some excellent 3D work in that long list of objects if you have some pare time......
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on March 19, 2015, 06:49:43 PM
I was wondering ... what is the difference in the milage on the squares???
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on March 19, 2015, 07:45:22 PM
Whit 1 red 4
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on March 19, 2015, 08:46:45 PM
So if I am doing a map that is 256X256 I need to fill up 256 Red squares X 256 squares??
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on March 26, 2015, 01:54:10 PM
So if I am doing a map that is 256X256 I need to fill up 256 Red squares X 256 squares??
LawnDart
If you are referring to the grid you see on the terrain, it would be 256x256 white squares. But the terrain size is simply what is seen on the clip board map, the world is always 512 x 512.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on March 26, 2015, 07:26:58 PM
To expand on what Hitech said. All terrains are 512x512 the only thing you are really making 64, 128, or 256 in size is the clip board map. The terrain it's self is still 512x512
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 31, 2015, 10:34:38 AM
A general overview of how Terrains are made in AH would be a good starting point for those of us trying to learn, what file types, free hand maps, maps based on existing elevations (real world). Haven't got a clue how to even start the process. :ahand
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on May 04, 2015, 05:25:45 PM
Anyone have an Outline of what it takes to create a new map?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: MachNix on May 07, 2015, 11:32:06 AM
Possible error on the beta2 terrain that the TE should check for. V28 has two spawns facing north. If the clipboard map is set to show spawns, V28 shows 5 spawn arrows but there are only 4 spawn directions (+ hanger) showing. Clicking the S spawn direction goes to the shorter arrow to the southwest. To get to the southernmost spawn you have to type ".fly 1". Remember the spawn direction is determined by the direction the spawn is facing and not the direction from the field. I seem to remember that the TE would check spawn points, but it might not be working if the beta2 terrain was converted. See: p54_TE_spawns.jpg
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 04, 2015, 08:00:07 PM
The Clutter On check box in the lower left of the screen has never worked. All it does is check the Trees on/off box next to it. You can't even put a check in it. It is acting simply as a secondary Trees On check box.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 05, 2015, 03:58:47 PM
When opening the TE, the box showing the textures is still black until you click on another tab, then come back for them to appear.
If you click on Settings in the top left, then Terrain Type Settings, then box that is supposed to have the name of the different terrain types is blank. If you click on Change Ocean Color or Change River Color, the TE automatically CTDs every time.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 10, 2015, 08:52:30 PM
Patch 64 bug:
When you check the Animation box at the bottom, the tabs for Terrain, Objects, Elevations, etc. are no longer selectable. If you uncheck the Animation box, the tabs go back to being selectable.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 11, 2015, 09:48:19 PM
Is the same clutter used by all the textures of a terrXXX.res set? That's how it appears to me in the TE & if so, is a big step backward imo in making the clutter look good with the different textures.
Also, is the current TE patch version able to do custom textures yet? That's a monster I'm going to need help with. It is soooo much harder to add custom textures with this new version, and I have to do it to make all the terrains I have on the server look right. Every terrain I've ever made in the last 11 years has used 100% custom textures. They are important because they give the game variety. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on July 14, 2015, 02:03:32 PM
Ranger if I send you a file could you take a look at it and tell me how I am doing???
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 14, 2015, 02:27:25 PM
Is the same clutter used by all the textures of a terrXXX.res set? That's how it appears to me in the TE & if so, is a big step backward imo in making the clutter look good with the different textures.
Also, is the current TE patch version able to do custom textures yet? That's a monster I'm going to need help with. It is soooo much harder to add custom textures with this new version, and I have to do it to make all the terrains I have on the server look right. Every terrain I've ever made in the last 11 years has used 100% custom textures. They are important because they give the game variety. :salute
Each terrset has it's own clutter setup file describing what shapes to use with what tile types, almost identical to the old system with random weights exctera. The shapes used in that setup file can come from the terrset of the standard shape, or the terrain.
Tersets 00 and 02 are use most of the same stuff.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 14, 2015, 09:16:57 PM
Roger. Thankee. There is so much new stuff to learn with this one...
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on July 17, 2015, 02:43:25 PM
Is it possible to save a jpeg/bmp copy of a town layout or a base layout than can be used in Paint program?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 17, 2015, 07:33:44 PM
Ranger if I send you a file could you take a look at it and tell me how I am doing???
LawnDart
Of course.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 18, 2015, 11:56:16 PM
Patch 65 Bug
Every time I attempt to open a v2 terrain that has not been opened & converted yet, I CTD. I am able to open v2 terrains that have been previously converted just fine. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 21, 2015, 03:54:32 PM
Every time I attempt to open a v2 terrain that has not been opened & converted yet, I CTD. I am able to open v2 terrains that have been previously converted just fine. :salute
Do you mean create new? How can you open a v2 terrain that has not been converted?
If you have a terrain that you made that is crashing you, can you send the folder to me?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 23, 2015, 02:07:46 PM
Do you mean create new? How can you open a v2 terrain that has not been converted?
If you have a terrain that you made that is crashing you, can you send the folder to me?
HiTech
Sorry for the late response Dale. Prior to Patch 65, you could open a v2 terrain in the new TE, but it would be all water. When you clicked the Convert v2 Terrain, the land would then appear, albeit a little different shoreline-wise & some bases were moved up to 3 miles from their original spot. As of Patch 65, when I try to open a v2 terrain to convert it, instead of getting the all water world prior to conversion, the TE just automatically CTDs. Still happening as of Patch 67. So I am no longer able to open any v2 terrains to convert. The few v2 terrains that I had already opened and converted prior to Patch 65 open fine. It only CTDs on v2 terrains that have never been opened in the new TE. If you want me to send you a terrain, just PM me how you would like me to send it to ya.
Can anyone else who has a v2 terrain that has never been opened in the new TE try to for me to see if you get the same results please? Dang near half the terrains on the server are mine & I am no longer able to open them, which will be a big problem later on. Thanks!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 23, 2015, 02:12:06 PM
Now I understand, the V2 was confusing me, I was thinking V2 meant the current alpha.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 23, 2015, 02:23:21 PM
Thanks range, found it.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 23, 2015, 11:01:52 PM
Right on! :cheers:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 23, 2015, 11:07:01 PM
Is there any way this thread could be moved & stickied to the new forum so others can chime in with things please? Plus they will be able to read all of the new info posted about the new TE to date. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on July 27, 2015, 03:37:41 PM
Thank you HT. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: artik on July 28, 2015, 01:33:17 AM
The system will export or import a .raw file. It is 16 bit signed shorts 4096 X 4096 each sample is 660 feet I.E. 8 samples per mile. Ocean is best set at about -100 feet. And ocean water is always drawn at 0 feet.
The .oba file format has not changed, but don't copy yours in, the import V2 will changed standard shape names, and any unknown shape will be changed to a fixme shape.
The texture type file (now called splat) is export into a 32 bit bmp
The R channel defines the small texture type. (0 = type 0, 16 = type 1, 32 = type 2 ...) The G channel defines the Large texture type (0 = 0,64 = 2, 128 = 3 192 = type 3) The B channel is a blend factore between the 2 types, this is normally always 0 or 255.
The
HeTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 28, 2015, 03:09:31 PM
Very interesting thread.
Thanks Hitech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on July 28, 2015, 05:28:43 PM
After updating to patch 68 I'm still getting "ahedit has stopped working" when I try to convert my V2 CraterMA files.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on July 28, 2015, 06:34:29 PM
Would it be easier to create a mamp in the AH2 editor then remake it to the ah3 editor??? Just asking..
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: artik on July 29, 2015, 12:32:03 AM
The system will export or import a .raw file. It is 16 bit signed shorts 4096 X 4096 each sample is 660 feet I.E. 8 samples per mile. Ocean is best set at about -100 feet. And ocean water is always drawn at 0 feet.
Thanks. It is still quite close to elv but with much higher accuracy.
"-100" - does it means we can create negative altitudes? i.e. I can build real Dead Sea at -1,407 ft?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on July 29, 2015, 08:42:37 AM
Thanks. It is still quite close to elv but with much higher accuracy.
"-100" - does it means we can create negative altitudes? i.e. I can build real Dead Sea at -1,407 ft?
Ive had to knock down some water to -100 ft to build a port then use smooth bilinear to make the transition to land for the LVT's .... Still trying to figure out some other things and i will post a pic soon as to what I am working on...
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 29, 2015, 10:17:59 AM
After updating to patch 68 I'm still getting "ahedit has stopped working" when I try to convert my V2 CraterMA files.
I just converted the createrma with out an issue.
Things that may get you, do NOT put the old craterma folder into the ah3terr folder, a new one is created, I normally have the terrains under the old AH and simply import it from there. If that is not the issue, please zip your craterma folder that you want to import, and i'll find the issue with that.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on July 29, 2015, 11:01:54 AM
Thanks HT. I had copied the files to the ah3terr folder, once I deleted that folder it worked fine.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on July 29, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Would it help HTC out if I refettled CraterMA or have you guys reworked all the MA terrains already? Looking at the converted terrain it seems the new engine's altered vertex size has screwed up the rivers. Also the mountains have lost their snow and rock textures and look a bit bland.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 29, 2015, 04:20:34 PM
Would it help HTC out if I refettled CraterMA or have you guys reworked all the MA terrains already? Looking at the converted terrain it seems the new engine's altered vertex size has screwed up the rivers. Also the mountains have lost their snow and rock textures and look a bit bland.
Sure, but let me send you our source files first. We may have changed yours slightly.
We normally run the entire terrain threw some alt and angle filters to set most types. Then do hand clean up from there.
Also Ill send you any terrains you want to update.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on July 29, 2015, 04:26:35 PM
Found a small bug, if you do an export a file splat.bmp will be created.
When ever you start the editor it first looked fro splat.bmp before the splat.htz, hence it would appear changes didn't take.
So after an import, delete the splat.bmp file.
Is fixed for next patch
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on July 29, 2015, 06:11:47 PM
The strat's changed since I submitted CraterMA, so that will be different for a start. You could post the files in my Skinner Team folder on the FTP server if that's easiest.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on July 31, 2015, 11:57:47 AM
files are there
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on July 31, 2015, 04:53:04 PM
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Title: CBM
Post by: jimson on July 31, 2015, 10:56:41 PM
When working in the TE I cannot see the CBM. Is there a trick I am missing because it shows in game once I build the terrain.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 01, 2015, 04:08:20 AM
I've spent a few hours learning the new TE. It took me a while to figure out the new coastline editing tool but otherwise it was pretty similar to the old one to use. My first impression is the angle/height filters for texture placement is a great improvement and should be a huge time saver. I also discovered rivers need to be made a bit wider in the new TE otherwise the river banks tend to merge in the middle distance.
I bought L3DT Pro to try out and exported CraterMA's height.raw file to it. It loaded OK but all the ocean areas were displayed as white on the height map, i.e. 65K alt. In the limited time I played with it I couldn't see a way to get round this in that program. I think L3DT Pro will be more useful in creating a new terrain than updating an existing one anyway.
Another thing I thought of was loading the height.raw file into Paint Shop Pro. I figured I could edit the white oceans to black pretty easily using that program. Also I used the old TE height map to create the CBM in PSP so it might be useful for that again. PSP asks for parameters when I try to load the height.raw file but whatever settings I tried caused the file to display weirdly. So is it possible to edit the file using PSP and if so what settings would I put in this window?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 02, 2015, 12:48:59 AM
quote from Hitech: The system will export or import a .raw file. It is 16 bit signed shorts 4096 X 4096 each sample is 660 feet I.E. 8 samples per mile. Ocean is best set at about -100 feet. And ocean water is always drawn at 0 feet.
Your screen grab from PSP doesn't show an option for a 16 bit raw file.
My impression is that L3DT Pro will handle conversions but hopefully Waffle can clarify the procedure.
jimson, rename your CBM file and drop it into the texsrc folder. ;)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 02, 2015, 04:51:11 AM
Thanks Easyscor, I suspected it wasn't going to work but I thought I'd check. Photoshop Elements supports 16 bit raw but that gave an error message when I tried to load the file.
An odd thing I just noticed about the TE's conversion of CraterMA is that it put three extra city objects in the map, one for each country. Two of these were placed adjacent to the original city and one was directly on top. It is a small map so I'm assuming this is a bug. I realise strat isn't done yet, but I thought I'd mention it.
Are there any new guidelines for building MA terrains I should be aware of? For example should I not overuse the more detailed terrain tiles for FPS reasons?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: jimson on August 03, 2015, 12:49:55 AM
Rename it to the same name as your terrain. Not map.bmp. Ah, have you forgotten? Rename it and put it in your texsrc folder.
LOL, it's too tempting to tease you here my friend. I know this is going to be one of those 'Doh!' moments. :rofl
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 03, 2015, 06:09:21 AM
I've found what I think are a couple of bugs with the TE:
First the terrain converter does not check the "set to terrain alt" box for all types of fields, for tank town and the strat objects. It does check it for spawn points but I forgot to look at shore batteries. This means when I move a field to a new location it does not blend to the terrain around it (as per the V field below). This can be got round by just ticking the the box in object properties, but it is a nuisance to have to redo every field.
The second problem is a minor graphical glitch. When I move an object which is not "set to terrain alt" the terrain squares it passes over change colour (as per the white squares shown below). This colour change turns on and off depending on viewing angle and only goes away if you restart the TE. With an object which is set to terrain alt it does not seem to do this.
I've found what I think are a couple of bugs with the TE:
First the terrain converter does not check the "set to terrain alt" box for all types of fields, for tank town and the strat objects. It does check it for spawn points but I forgot to look at shore batteries. This means when I move a field to a new location it does not blend to the terrain around it (as per the V field below). This can be got round by just ticking the the box in object properties, but it is a nuisance to have to redo every field.
Hi Greebo, this is intentional so that if you miss move something it hasn't destroyed your terrain .
Anytime you wish the terrain to mate up with the object (always done at terrain build time) is "level terrain on square objects" This is under the file menu.
Your other option is simply to open the object detail window and hit ok, it then levels that object only.
The other bug you describe I must be missing a texture refresh or flag some where. I'll find that one.
I'll also add an unsigned 16 bit exporter/importer which will let it work with photo shop.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Waffle on August 03, 2015, 09:48:37 AM
Hi Greebo, this is intentional so that if you miss move something it hasn't destroyed your terrain .
HiTech
Thanks HT, I've still got a bit to learn about the new TE I guess. Really glad I don't have to redo all those settings as I've been mentally totting up how many of those objects there are in this terrain. With the old TE I spent loads of time checking that settings like this were correct for every object so it is nice that a lot of that tedious stuff is done for you now.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 03, 2015, 04:23:19 PM
Also greebo, not sure I documented it, but typically you want only 1 , 1 mile object in a 4 mile square (Red Square). Right now I can not remember what happens if you have more.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 03, 2015, 05:01:49 PM
Reading that I thought there was bound to be a couple of fields in tank town sharing a red square but more by luck than judgement there isn't. I don't think there's anywhere else that it will be an issue but I'll keep it in mind. Maybe add it to the error check?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 04, 2015, 01:41:46 PM
second or third post of this thread on the exporting from AHTE, importing/exporting from l3dt, and re importing to AHTE. :aok
Thanks Waffle, I haven't tried that program yet.
I noticed few things. The center point establishing the shadows in the large towns at A1, A22, etc seem to be missaligned. When approaching from the south south west, the shadows don't appear until you're near the center of the town and then they pop into view. No problem from the north. I'm using CM eye or an Fi156. Everything I checked at the small towns was okay.
Also, in CM eye, I am able to go under a few stone bridges at tank town but not all as I'm forced up into colliding with the upper portion. The same is true at the large towns in case that might matter later. In fact, when I skim the water while following the river in the large towns, I'm forced up into the stone bridges and at several points where there is no bridge along the way. In addition, when following the river in CM eye, I'm sometimes displaced slightly from one point of view to another, as if I hit something (when moving at a good clip.)
I'm hopeful that watercraft will be able to travel under all the bridges in the final release.
Also greebo, not sure I documented it, but typically you want only 1 , 1 mile object in a 4 mile square (Red Square). Right now I can not remember what happens if you have more.
It's too early for me to try this out but I'm wondering if I'll be able to build the massive cities I created in avachanl? Each tile was a mile square and there were around one hundred square miles in Paris alone. Will that still be possible?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 08, 2015, 03:40:32 AM
As every terrain I created for the AvA over the previous couple of years before I retired has custom objects, I'm not expecting any of them to work after this goes live. Ouch!
I tried L3DT Standard edition to get a feel for it. It crapped out before I could load my favorite data base suggesting I buy the Pro edition which still might not work. Yikes.
Between that and AC3d with/without it's AH plugin, I'm looking at $130 plus for the privilege of building high end terrains. I really really hate saying this, but... (deleted)
:(
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on August 08, 2015, 09:50:46 PM
Have we lost the ability to change the color of the water?
Have we lost the ability to add textures underwater? Ex. coral reefs
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 11, 2015, 09:59:43 PM
Wireframe - This should probably be more of a wish then anything.
Here's the scenario. You wish to cut a canyon or you wish to add a bridge and carefully contour the banks of a river to meet the bridge deck or perhaps you just want to shape a ship's harbor to match a photo. That isn't particularly easy to do with the normal editing view in the TE but half the solution is already in the TE.
In the TE you can call up a wireframe display but I've never found it useful in the past. That could change and be very useful indeed with these busy vertices. I think it would require a change to clean up confusion in the display and I've included a jpg to show the problem.
The jpg shows an overriding foreground grid that I can't get rid of. As far as I can tell, it might be left over from some long past experiment. As you can see, the feature isn't much use, or at least not intuitive in its present form.
Of course, toggling the wireframe view vs the normal view is very important for locating the proper verts. It might also help later in manually setting ground types.
(giggle) Being color blind I'd ask for the ability to change the wireframe line width and color, but I know that'd be too much. (I kind of miss the little yellow crosses when you selected verts in the old editor.)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 12, 2015, 07:50:02 AM
I've been playing with the CBM map making tool in the TE. It makes a nice looking map, particularly if the time slider is moved off centre to generate some shadows and highlights on the mountains. There is now an option to make the map either 1024, 2048 or 4096 res and the extra detail of the higher res map looks much better when the map is zoomed in. I know HTC don't like MA terrain files to be too big so is there a size limit for an MA terrain CBM or can I use up to 4096?
BTW for anyone doing this remember to save your map as a 256 colour bmp in a graphics editor program. Then rename the resultant map.bmp file to your terrain's name and move it to the texsrc folder. If you don't reduce to 256 colours the map will show up in the TE but not the game.
I also miss the little yellow crosses from the old TE. It is quite easy to make some crazy looking terrain and not notice it in the TE. Perhaps the option to have lighting and shading of terrain in the wireframe mode would make it easier to read.
A few thoughts regarding the new TE/terrain:
I really like the new town texture, placing a little village in the middle of some farmland or a town around a factory really adds to the look of the terrain. Also it gives something different for GVs to fight in. I also like the way the game only puts trees and buildings on sensibly sloping terrain now.
The new trees look great but it would be nice if a few of the textures had less trees in them, so I could create some "no cover" areas or a treeless area at the end of a runway. A GVer could be given a choice between a quick dash over a treeless area or skirting it. In the ETO terrain set I was thinking the swamp texture would look better with no trees, the sandy grass coast texture and also the plain grass texture could do with fewer.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on August 12, 2015, 09:50:30 AM
The small banana trees and the bamboo patches need to be changed so they don't stop GV's.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 13, 2015, 09:28:49 AM
Also if you flip wire frame on, turn ocean off.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on August 13, 2015, 02:27:08 PM
The same clutter (trees & such) being applied to almost all the different terrain textures is a major step backwards imho.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 13, 2015, 03:01:09 PM
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 20, 2015, 02:46:39 AM
There's a few minor TE/game issues I've come across while working on CraterMA:-
The first relates to tank town on the ETO terrain set. This object always appears as a blue square when I generate a map in the TE. It also appears as a blue square in the game at long distance, but this disappears once the object itself is displayed. I'm not sure whether this is a bug or something I have done, so I have uploaded the current CraterMA files to my folder on the FTP site in case you need to check.
Occasionally when generating a map some objects (some but not all cities, towns and airfields) display a brown box around the object out to the borders of the square they are in. I forgot to take a screenshot of this and the current map does not have the issue. I have not been able to find out what causes this, despite trying different textures and underlying textures below the objects. It seems almost random when it happens.
Another map generation issue is that the "show icons/field names/SPs" check boxes don't seem to do anything.
A slightly odd thing is that Bright won't work with the map bmp the TE generates. I got round this by loading and saving the map in PSP, then Bright works with it OK.
<snip> A slightly odd thing is that Bright won't work with the map bmp the TE generates. I got round this by loading and saving the map in PSP, then Bright works with it OK.
Yeah, the new TE is very specific about what it will and won't accept, i.e. a 32 (vs 24) bit bmp of the correct size MAY work. The old rules are best followed. 256 bit indexed map at 1024 in the texsrc folder, but as mentioned, the dang thing will accept other resolutions too, IF they're in the right format. IMO it's best to stay with tried and true 256 indexed color and 1024 x 1024 pixels.
I don't know why/where it's coming from, but sometimes the CBM and custom objects require new terrain files. I'll try to post more on this when I figure out what's actually happening, unless it's fixed before I can figure it out myself.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 20, 2015, 05:45:07 AM
I've had no problem getting the TE to accept my CBM file once it is reduced to 256 colours. While playing around with the splat map the only problem I had was when I accidentally introduced an incorrect colour and the TE would not import the file until I fixed it.
The problem with Bright not running the file the TE generates unless its saved in another program first is not a big deal. It is just Bright does a much better job of reducing colours than any other program I have tried. I mainly mentioned the issue to save other users some head scratching.
Currently my CBM is 4096 res which looks great in-game when zoomed-in. However it increases the res file size and I guess may cause players with marginal PCs resource issues. So I'll reduce the size if HTC tells me to.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 20, 2015, 07:49:47 AM
I've had no problem getting the TE to accept my CBM file once it is reduced to 256 colours. While playing around with the splat map the only problem I had was when I accidentally introduced an incorrect colour and the TE would not import the file until I fixed it.
The problem with Bright not running the file the TE generates unless its saved in another program first is not a big deal. It is just Bright does a much better job of reducing colours than any other program I have tried. I mainly mentioned the issue to save other users some head scratching.
Currently my CBM is 4096 res which looks great in-game when zoomed-in. However it increases the res file size and I guess may cause players with marginal PCs resource issues. So I'll reduce the size if HTC tells me to.
Hmm, I may have to change the way that texture is stored in the terrain file so that it res is lowered with max texture size.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 20, 2015, 11:29:38 AM
I've had no problem getting the TE to accept my CBM file once it is reduced to 256 colours. While playing around with the splat map the only problem I had was when I accidentally introduced an incorrect colour and the TE would not import the file until I fixed it.
The problem with Bright not running the file the TE generates unless its saved in another program first is not a big deal. It is just Bright does a much better job of reducing colours than any other program I have tried. I mainly mentioned the issue to save other users some head scratching.
Currently my CBM is 4096 res which looks great in-game when zoomed-in. However it increases the res file size and I guess may cause players with marginal PCs resource issues. So I'll reduce the size if HTC tells me to.
I'm sure it must be user error on my part. AKA bits of rust flaking off my rusty TE skill, but I do push things pretty hard and if it can break, then I'll break it.
That's great news about the 4096 CBM!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 21, 2015, 03:01:48 AM
Thanks HT, glad I can keep the 4096 CBM. I think it will improve the look of the game for those who can run it.
I have been adding a few extra spawn points to factories on the map. It has been a while since I last used the TE but I seem to recall the old version would automatically assign a new ID number for each new object assigned to a field. The new TE does not do that and will give a duplicate heading report on the error check. I have manually assigned new IDs for my new SPs to fix the issue but it would be nice not to have to do this.
Another issue has been carried over from the old TE. When I save the terrain and then move my viewpoint many of the objects on the map both in the 3D window and on the CBM are then displayed incorrectly. For instance truck convoys may get white SP circles around them and SPs may lose their circles. Some objects appear as map rooms and have the field number displayed in that position on the map. The only way round this is to exit and re-enter the TE. This is a really annoying bug and is a disincentive to save my work regularly which can't be a good thing.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 21, 2015, 11:09:32 AM
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but in working to create narrow rivers, I found them closing up when viewed from about 10k and above.
The screen shot on the left is of a bridge crossing a 1320' wide river from just under 10k. The river is 100' deep in the middle and the banks are set to zero ft. elevation.
The screen shot on the right is taken as the elevation increases beyond about 10k and the river starts closing up.
(sorry about the bmp, it was uploading before I noticed it.)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 21, 2015, 11:15:41 AM
Rivers do close up at distance in both the game and the TE. However its less of an issue in the game as the distance fog tends to hide it. I just widened my rivers to the point it looked OK to me in the game.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 21, 2015, 12:28:21 PM
Rivers do close up at distance in both the game and the TE. However its less of an issue in the game as the distance fog tends to hide it. I just widened my rivers to the point it looked OK to me in the game.
Right, it isn't important for MA terrains, but in real world terrains for the AvA, the lack of realistic rivers and lakes is huge.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 21, 2015, 03:23:45 PM
This is the CBM bug I mentioned earlier where occasionally when the map is generated a brown outline appears around some objects.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 22, 2015, 01:48:35 AM
I've figured out the problem with the blue tank town. If it is set to an altitude close to 0 feet it will appear blue on the map and at distance in the game. Set it 70 feet or higher and the problem goes away.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 22, 2015, 09:18:08 AM
btw I forgot to mention about custom square objects.
The verts on the out side of the square must be at exactly 660 positions.In side the square they can be anything you wish. They no longer need to be flat, but should all be zero or above.
Also there are different shaders you can select when drawing objects, which I have not checked to see if they are functional in AC3D
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 23, 2015, 09:09:34 AM
I noticed something odd with shore batteries both in the game and the TE. The texture displayed on the base of the hill cycles between the correct surrounding ground texture, other textures that look like street paving and runway paving and black. What is displayed depends on the angle the SB is viewed from.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ebfd11 on August 24, 2015, 01:35:36 PM
I am still having trouble getting my CPM to even show up in the clipboard.... am I doing something wrong???
LawnDart
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 24, 2015, 03:10:33 PM
Your CBM file needs to be reduced from an 8 bit bmp to a 256 colour bmp, named the same as your terrain (i.e. "craterma.bmp" in my case) and placed in your terrain folder's "texsrc" folder. Once you've done all this, start the TE and you should see your new CBM in the Map window. Hit "File/Make Map" and then you should see it in-game as well.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Cheyenn on August 25, 2015, 03:56:52 AM
Here is a link for Bases used by the 8th AAF: http://8thafhs.com/ Not only gives you were the bases are located but also the designs of then, and what Bomber and Fighter Groups that used them. Also for you people who build maps. For those building maps for AVA, when building the English maps please and try placing the Bomber bases where they should be. Plus as AAF plans the main runway was between 2,000 to 2,600 yards long, other runways are from 1,400 to 1,600 yards. Enjoy and hope the map makers use this resource to good use.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 25, 2015, 03:43:59 PM
Looks like Waffle used your site to create the super large airfield at A1 on the current NDisles.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 04, 2015, 02:36:30 AM
Patch 72 has introduced a weird graphical glitch to the TE. All the water areas are covered with what looks like miniature images of the splattype texture map. There are images of the complete texture map overlayed by roughly three times smaller images of what looks like just the detailed terrain textures (farms and villages etc). Also the shallow coastlines have a white edging rather than the waves and sand texture they should have. If I move my viewpoint below the land the splattype images continue across the map at 0 feet alt and there shown in shades of grey.
To see if this was a problem specifically with CraterMA I built a test terrain and got the same effect on that.
I had a look at my terrain offline in the Alpha game but this effect did not show there either before or after doing a build with the Patch 72 TE.
Removing the splattype file from the terrain folder and then starting the TE did not help either.
I guess this has something to do with these being the longest file names in the list, with 16-18 characters. This is not a big deal to me, but I thought I'd mention it as it could cause some unrelated issues with the game.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 07, 2015, 01:14:40 AM
splattype.bmp Issues
I started playing with the terrain texture-types this afternoon and found some differences between what was detailed for the splattype.bmp in a previous post in this forum.
Included is a jpg of the terrain tab window showing both the splat RGB hex values and decimal values printed on each of the 20 terrain types according to what I've found. If I've missed something and gotten this wrong, please let me know. P.S. I found this in both patch 72 and 73.
In addition, at the bottom of the jpg is shown a text box that I think will eventually show the terrain type name when one is selected. I'd like to offer a list of potential names to choose from based on my past GIS research. While there are several scholarly choices, the NLCD 1992 for instance, or Anderson, most wouldn't seem appropriate.
Here's my favorite USGS list for ETO descriptions that might help.
Urban and Built-Up Land Dryland Cropland and Pasture Irrigated Cropland and Pasture Mixed Dryland/Irrigated Cropland and Pasture Cropland/Grassland Mosaic Cropland/Woodland Mosaic Grassland Shrubland Mixed Shrubland/Grassland Savanna Deciduous Broadleaf Forest Deciduous Needleleaf Forest Evergreen Broadleaf Forest Evergreen Needleleaf Forest Mixed Forest Water Bodies Herbaceous Wetland Wooded Wetland Barren or Sparsely Vegetated Herbaceous Tundra Wooded Tundra Mixed Tundra Bare Ground Tundra Snow or Ice Undefined
For my sources of ETO and PTO names http://edc2.usgs.gov/glcc/globdoc2_0.php Scroll down to the Appendix For more, Google 4.4 USGS Land Use/Land Cover System Legend (Modified Level 2).
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 08, 2015, 01:11:40 AM
fyi. I was called upon to help solve a Clip Board Map issue. It turned out the user had reset his screen resolution at some point after the alpha's TE had built the aheditmap.cfg file. The CBM was off the bottom of his screen.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 14, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
Currently my CBM is 4096 res which looks great in-game when zoomed-in. However it increases the res file size and I guess may cause players with marginal PCs resource issues. So I'll reduce the size if HTC tells me to.
Hmm, I may have to change the way that texture is stored in the terrain file so that it res is lowered with max texture size.
HiTech
I wonder if it makes sense to allow bump mapping of elevations in the CBM as well.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 15, 2015, 02:04:11 AM
I think that from the point of view of realism a bump mapped CBM would be an odd thing to have. What I mean is that the CBM is supposed to represent a printed map on a clip board so where would the bumped elevations come from?
Title: Level of Detail Trees
Post by: Chilli on September 16, 2015, 12:22:25 PM
How much of the tree shapes can be altered? I noticed something called SpeedTree, and wonder if they are "set" shapes or could be edited or replaced, especially low level of detail tree trunks.
It all looks great, and I am not looking at perfection, but could see a significant improvement if the tree trunks at low level were thinner. Is this at all a possibility?
Check out Zuum's video to compare the thickness of trunks in the distance.
Notice in this alpha flyby, the tree trunks at distance are thick, but as they come into focus show a thinner profile. [edit] I just realized that external compression is done by youtube videos, and other filming software, so forgive the unfair comparison, to actual in game graphics. I only meant it as an example of what I would like to see.
Title: Re: Level of Detail Trees
Post by: hitech on September 16, 2015, 12:46:50 PM
No on editing the tree shapes. They are copyrighted by Speed Tree.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Chilli on September 16, 2015, 05:09:31 PM
Thanks HiTech,
It's a very small detail, and your answer does explain it very well. Are there any differences the shadows along the tree trunk have made in the past? (not wanting to ask for anymore time dwelling on such a small difference, that has nothing to do with editor). In essence, do the shadows in anyway hide the tree trunks?
I still love it as it is, no matter. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 16, 2015, 05:50:32 PM
I guess its going to depend on the sort of frame rates players get but are there any new guidelines relating to weather creation for MA terrains yet? For instance in AH1 the maximum number of clouds visible in an MA terrain at any one time was capped at 900.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 16, 2015, 06:26:03 PM
I guess its going to depend on the sort of frame rates players get but are there any new guidelines relating to weather creation for MA terrains yet? For instance in AH1 the maximum number of clouds visible in an MA terrain at any one time was capped at 900.
The limits are much larger now.
I believe the limits are in the range of 2048 cloud rows. But I would not try to cover the entire arena with clouds.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 19, 2015, 06:33:35 PM
In the TE, when I run the Object Report / Check for Errors, it reports my custom shapes are missing, yet they're there in the final build and they show and work properly in offline mode.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 21, 2015, 05:22:12 AM
I believe the limits are in the range of 2048 cloud rows. But I would not try to cover the entire arena with clouds.
I mis-read your answer at first and was thinking "how could you possibly cover the arena in 2048 clouds". :)
To prevent framerate issues on low spec PCs I have kept the cloud fronts seperated from each other and limited each front to fewer than 100 clouds. Does that seem a reasonable number?
There are a couple of issues I'd like to mention with the cloud editor:
First the cloud editor has always had an issue where a save overwrites the first line of text in the awa file. This version also has this issue but it is a little different from before. On previous versions it would overwrite line 1 with the default 8 by 8 cloud front. This version overwrites some random data from line 22 over line 1. On one save it replaced everything, timing, cloud numbers, alt and types etc and on another it just replaced the start time of the front.
The other thing is just a suggestion to make the editor easier to use. In order to prevent surges in cloud numbers I have been careful to make sure each fronts' life time is exactly one hour. What this means in practice is getting the "V" of each front positioned very carefully until the "life time" shows "1.00". Since I have to update the front to see changes each time and I can't zoom in the map this can take 5 or 10 goes for each front. My suggestion is a "lock life time" button. So after typing 1.00 into the box and clicking the button I'd then use the V to just set the angle of the front on the map.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 21, 2015, 12:47:19 PM
I mis-read your answer at first and was thinking "how could you possibly cover the arena in 2048 clouds". :)
To prevent framerate issues on low spec PCs I have kept the cloud fronts seperated from each other and limited each front to fewer than 100 clouds. Does that seem a reasonable number?
There are a couple of issues I'd like to mention with the cloud editor:
First the cloud editor has always had an issue where a save overwrites the first line of text in the awa file. This version also has this issue but it is a little different from before. On previous versions it would overwrite line 1 with the default 8 by 8 cloud front. This version overwrites some random data from line 22 over line 1. On one save it replaced everything, timing, cloud numbers, alt and types etc and on another it just replaced the start time of the front.
The other thing is just a suggestion to make the editor easier to use. In order to prevent surges in cloud numbers I have been careful to make sure each fronts' life time is exactly one hour. What this means in practice is getting the "V" of each front positioned very carefully until the "life time" shows "1.00". Since I have to update the front to see changes each time and I can't zoom in the map this can take 5 or 10 goes for each front. My suggestion is a "lock life time" button. So after typing 1.00 into the box and clicking the button I'd then use the V to just set the angle of the front on the map.
Will try get the v thing. Also have you tried the negative Initial times? That way you do not have to wait for the bank to form. HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on September 21, 2015, 03:42:54 PM
alpha 75 has a test cloud rectangle over TT. If you are still testing clouds, any chance of adding a few scattered small cumulous groups to work with in alpha 76?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 22, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
BTW is there a way I can insert reminder statements into the awa file to make it easier to understand?
Do you work with the files directly? Or are talking about putting a comment in the cloud editor?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 22, 2015, 02:42:41 PM
I find for some jobs it is sometimes quicker to edit the weather file directly using a text editor rather than the cloud editor. So I was just wondering if there is a way to add comments into the awa file like "Tank town clouds" to make it easier to read.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 23, 2015, 02:37:02 AM
I did not describe the cloud editor 1st line save bug correctly in my previous post. What is actually happening is this:-
Lets say I am editing line 10 in the cloud editor and I do a save but keep the editor running. I might make some changes to this file with notepad and then reload the file into the editor. The editor then moves me to line 1 of the newly loaded file but copies some data across from the line I was previously on, line 10 in this case.
Knowing this I can work round the issue by just shutting down the editor after each save and then restarting it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 23, 2015, 12:00:16 PM
I notice that cloud shadows do not display on terrain that is above 8K or so altitude. Is this as intended or a bug?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 23, 2015, 03:27:37 PM
The will display on anything below the cloud height.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 23, 2015, 03:42:47 PM
Been working on the custom terrain tiles, it should all be working for the next release. Here is a sample set that can be used as the starting point.
In the terrset00 folder there are 4 .txt files.
These files define the inputs for the atlases to be made. For the sample we have all the bmp in a texsrc folder, but they can be anywhere. But I would suggest you maintain this structure. When we name ours we give the bmp meaningful names like dryshrub or farm1 excreta. These simply need to be put in the atlas.txt files. For the example I simply named them according to there Type #.
Also when you lay them out keep transitions in mind. When you have a type 2 and a type 10 next to each other the terrain will transition threw 8 different terrain types. So it is best to keep similar types next to each other.
You can include multiple terrain sets in each terrain.
The sizes and type of format used for each file must be maintained.
The basic extensions are _a0 terrain detail type. _n normal map, and _b1 is the spec channel.
then any file with the clutter in the name defines where ground clutter lays on the tiles.
When the terrain editor starts it puts all these into 4 atlas files. They are then saved in the terrsetxx folder.
The object editor will also supports opening these files bmp files, and you can create tree layouts for the tile which are put into other folders under terrsetXX.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 24, 2015, 02:14:45 AM
The will display on anything below the cloud height.
What I am seeing in the game is as per the screenshot below. The mountain here is about 12.5K in alt and this set of clouds is set to between 17.5K and 16K, the hard line that cloud shadows stop displaying at is about 8K. This happens all across the map. I have tried setting clouds at different alts to no effect and it makes no difference if my viewpoint in the game is above or below 8K.
I have attached my dxdiag and the current weather file in case this is something specific to me. I had to save the weather file as a txt file as it would not let me upload an awa file.
I find for some jobs it is sometimes quicker to edit the weather file directly using a text editor rather than the cloud editor. So I was just wondering if there is a way to add comments into the awa file like "Tank town clouds" to make it easier to read.
Took a look, You can already make comments by starting the line with a #
They will still load with no problem, but if you edit with the cloud editor and save, the comments will be lost. As and example 0x00021d00 #test -3600,7200,30,221760,0,42,51,1,9,1000,1000,1000,3000,3000,3000,-145200,9000,-125400,262868,0,-58415,66000,0,297000,0.500 #test2 -3600,7200,30,221760,0,42,51,1,9,1000,1000,1000,3000,3000,3000,-145200,9000,-125400,262868,0,-58415,66000,0,297000,0.500
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 24, 2015, 02:31:55 PM
fyi When the TE is first opened, there are no selected objects in under the Objects tab. If you click the Save Texture button, a message comes up but then you can't move the editor window's display, it freezes. You can use the file menu to exit and everything else seems to work.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 24, 2015, 03:01:22 PM
fyi When the TE is first opened, there are no selected objects in under the Objects tab. If you click the Save Texture button, a message comes up but then you can't move the editor window's display, it freezes. You can use the file menu to exit and everything else seems to work.
Found the issue, there is a message box behind the TE telling you that you must select a shape. I fix it so it comes to the for ground.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 24, 2015, 03:51:38 PM
What I am seeing in the game is as per the screenshot below. The mountain here is about 12.5K in alt and this set of clouds is set to between 17.5K and 16K, the hard line that cloud shadows stop displaying at is about 8K. This happens all across the map. I have tried setting clouds at different alts to no effect and it makes no difference if my viewpoint in the game is above or below 8K.
I have attached my dxdiag and the current weather file in case this is something specific to me. I had to save the weather file as a txt file as it would not let me upload an awa file.
Found the issue, I just had it hard coded at 8k for testing, for next release it will be the middle of the cloud layer.
Also Ill see if I can fade it out over the last 500 feet or so.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 24, 2015, 04:10:29 PM
The fade works very well.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 25, 2015, 03:31:41 PM
Thanks HT, glad it was a simple fix. The lock button makes the cloud editor much nicer to use too.
The only other cloud related issue I have is that clouds (but not their shadows) vanish when viewed through a cloud layer. These shots show the same 11K clouds when viewed from above and below a 15K cloud layer:-
Thanks HT, glad it was a simple fix. The lock button makes the cloud editor much nicer to use too.
The only other cloud related issue I have is that clouds (but not their shadows) vanish when viewed through a cloud layer. These shots show the same 11K clouds when viewed from above and below a 15K cloud layer:-
Yea I knew about this when I wrote it. Have been considering fixing it, it involves what order to draw the layers, when you are below between or above them. My thought at the time was, just use the layer for high alt that is always above you.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 25, 2015, 04:11:11 PM
OK, I'll move it up to 40K or so.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 25, 2015, 04:21:37 PM
I forgot to mention, when uploading the terrain the first time, I got an error. Invalid Fd - 1 in pkSendMessage: ftPUT_FILE_REQUEST
I'm attaching a jpg of the Build window in case it's helpful. It worked on the second attempt
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Chilli on September 26, 2015, 01:42:02 PM
Test Goals: This is where I failed (Add one airfield to the terrain and build it.)
I had the old tutorial and lost it somewhere. But couldn't for the life of me see where it allowed me to add any fields, only view them if they already existed.
Please refresh my memory on those critical steps.
BTW, I uploaded the files from Easycor that included the airfield and it worked well offline.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 26, 2015, 02:00:37 PM
THE ELEVATIONS TAB
My experience to date with the new TE's Elevation Tab
When the focus is on the editor window, you can select any tool by typing the number, however, keep in mind that if you must click the value text box before you can make a value change. If I may suggest, the Tab key might be a nice toggle to set the focus into the editing window, or the input controls, or out of the programs window so it doesn't keep bouncing around while you type. I usually have several running programs on my desktop.
Smooth Catmul My intuition suggests a path for a ridgeline or valley but I haven't been able to make it work. Any instruction would be appreciated.
Smooth BiLiner This suggests straight line interpolation between 4 points, filling in holes and cutting down high points. Any instruction would be appreciated. (I had to do that a lot in the real world once upon a time. WHO knows what a blue top is? )
Set Alt: Use left click and drag Brut-force elevation changes. The easiest to understand and use and very important for tweaking alts for fields but not pleasing. Set the value and every vert you drag your mouse over is forced to meet the altitude value.
Raise/lower: Use left click and drag This can set build natural looking hills and mountains very quickly. It's very nice. It reminds me of a blur or fractal tool in a graphics program
Raise/loser Hil: Use left click and drag I'm sure there must be a difference between Raise/lower but I don't understand exactly what it is. This tool feels more like drawning a line across the terrain and feels to me more like my idea of a Biliner tool. Are there any refinement instructions to these last two?
Bulldoze 2 Points: Use left click and drag This is much easier to use then the old TE filters. It's going to be important when roads are introduced and it's useful for cutting canyons to contain GV battles or low furballs. Starting and ending altitudes match the elevation points under your cursor as you drag.
Beach Tool Point: Depress the Shift key & left click (you can drag) for a number of points (This is my favorite tool now that I know how to use it.) From a position over the land, think of how you'd read a line of English text. Start on your left at a point WELL beyond where you want your beach modification to start. If you don't, then in a moment you'll be erasing the good portions of beach beyond your starting point. You've seen the video laying down a series of points with shift+left click until you're well past the right hand extent of your changes. I like to use a small brush for setting the points and a large brush for editing the beach. Use Crtl + left drag to modify your points. Set your brush size and right click and drag over your beach. You can start this from either the right or left portion of the line. I find that on my hardware, I need to drag along the beach several times to see the best results. This tool won't draw islands or lakes, change your elevations first. I find it's good for about half a mile out in the water.
Spline All Islands Hit the Clear button first, only because it's there. Take up a position high above your islands and hit the Spline button. Give it a minute and a blue beach line will encircle your islands. You can decide what portions you want to accept. Take the brush and pass it along the line where you want to create your beach. This is similar to the Create all Beaches except you have the opportunity to skip the portions you want to behave differently. As you're working with this, if you see a spot you want to tweak with one of the other tools, your blue beach line will still be there when you come back to Beach Tools.
Create All Beaches Button This can save a lot of time if it works for your particular terrain and it typically moves the beach further out into the water while leaving obvious sand in its trail.. That makes a fairly good marker for coming back with the Beach Point Tool. It closes up your converted AH2 terrain rivers.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 26, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Test Goals: This is where I failed (Add one airfield to the terrain and build it.)
I had the old tutorial and lost it somewhere. But couldn't for the life of me see where it allowed me to add any fields, only view them if they already existed.
Please refresh my memory on those critical steps.
BTW, I uploaded the files from Easycor that included the airfield and it worked well offline.
Use the Objects tab. Click in the objects list and press S. The list will scroll alphabetically to saf1m00. Enjoy our new toys! Remember to set it as a Group Master, set to field, set the base number and zone.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Chilli on September 26, 2015, 03:15:51 PM
Use the Objects tab. Click in the objects list and press S. The list will scroll alphabetically to saf1m00. Enjoy our new toys! Remember to set it as a Group Master, set to field, set the base number and zone.
Many thanks again. Worked fine, except the CBM was all black :headscratch:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 26, 2015, 03:26:23 PM
I forgot to mention, Chilli, you set the bases country ownership and planesets in the Settings menu.
One thing I've sometimes missed was the ability to insert or delete a base number in the middle of the list without resorting to renumbering the oba file and resetting country and plane assignments. It's rarely needed but if it's in the TE, I never found how to access it.
While I'm here waiting for the kids to be ready to go to the park...
In our AvA terrains, we don't number base 1 as Bish, base 2 a Knit and base 3 as Rook. It's always worked but the question was raised. Are we doing it wrong? Especially for someone building an MA terrain?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 26, 2015, 03:27:47 PM
Many thanks again. Worked fine, except the CBM was all black :headscratch:
Was the CBM black when you first loaded it? Is it the patch76 test terrain? I'll be around for another half hour then poof.
Alright I have a couple of min. You should see both an Editor window and a Map window. If you don't see the Map window you've dragged if off screen or changed your display realestate settings in some unpredictable way.
If you see the Map window but constantly see a black screen, the name of your CBM doesn't match the name of your terrain or isn't in the texsrc folder. The TE's make map.bmp files will work for the Editor and a built terrain once renamed and placed in the texsrc folder.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 26, 2015, 11:58:30 PM
@Chilli There is one other possibility. Believe this or not, the old TE will load my alpha patch76 terrain. Make sure the correct TE version is shown in the About box.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 27, 2015, 03:55:46 AM
In our AvA terrains, we don't number base 1 as Bish, base 2 a Knit and base 3 as Rook. It's always worked but the question was raised. Are we doing it wrong? Especially for someone building an MA terrain?
CraterMA has fields 1, 2 and 3 set to each country and it was accepted by HTC like that. I am wondering now why would this be an issue?
BTW Chilli if it helps this list of objects and groups is what I believe can be put in an alpha MA terrain:
This first lot are all set to group master. The number in the middle of the object name relates to the size of the field, so laf1m00 is 1 mile square and laf4m00 is 4 miles square.
saf1m00 small airfield maf1m00 medium airfield laf1m00 large airfield laf4m00 new very large airfield with built-in town vb1m00 V field vb2m00 new large V field that blends to underlying terrain (good for sand or snow areas etc.) town1m town for 1 mile square airfields ttown2m00 tank town aafac1m00 AA factory city4m00 city hq1m00 HQ amfact1m00 ammo factory rdfct1m00 radar factory ref2m00 refinery trptrn1m00 troop training
bah0 shore battery (set to hard gun bat) entpnt spawn point (set to veh ent or boat ent) mpr0 maproom for CV capture (set to map room)
Unless I'm missing something I can't see a way to add CV groups in the alpha TE yet. Possibly this will be added when the supply convoy groups go in.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 27, 2015, 04:30:57 AM
I DIDN'T mean to be insulting here. I was ONLY asking a question.
CraterMA has fields 1, 2 and 3 set to each country and it was accepted by HTC like that. I am wondering now why would this be an issue?
snip
See the original question. I don't believe it's necessary to set base 1 Bish, base 2 Knit, base 3 Rook. THAT was the question since we haven't followed that rule in the AvA!
Unless I'm missing something I can't see a way to add CV groups in the alpha TE yet. Possibly this will be added when the supply convoy groups go in.
Currently when converting a terrain, the TGs make the cut! All 8 TGs are set in the Alpha version of avachanl. Until Waffle adds the Battleships, we don't know the final makeup of a TG. I'm hoping for a BB in the final makeup of the TG but ...
Hence the question. Do the first three base numbes matter?
Edit: You can create a "Group" for your TGs, but I think it best to wait for awhile. I hope that Waffle's bb will be included. I know you know what I mean and for others, it will become clear by the time this goes into production.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 27, 2015, 06:40:23 AM
My bad, I misunderstood your post regarding base numbers.
The converter redid the TGs in my terrain as well, I mentioned it more for Chilli's sake.
I forgot about the forthcoming battleship. If it gets its own TG I'll have to think about how to incorporate it. Wonder if they'll let me add another port per country, not sure if I'd want to drop a CV group to make room for it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 27, 2015, 07:27:01 AM
I've just noticed something odd about spawn points in the TE. I have created some new ones and these are set up with the same parameters as the original ones that were converted over from the old terrain. Specifically in Object Properties they are are all "Set to terrain alt". However the converted ones show the correct terrain alt in the Object Properties Y box, i.e if the SP is at 500 ft, that is what it shows. The odd thing is that all the newly made ones all show 0.000000 in the Y box, whatever the alt of the SP.
All the new and old SPs work fine in the alpha game itself and they all display correctly in the TE's viewing window. The only side effect I have found from this is in the TE, where if I move to one of the new SPs using "Go to Object" it takes my viewing position to just above 0 feet, so usually below ground level.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on September 27, 2015, 08:21:31 AM
The new lock button in the cloud editor is not working correctly. When it was introduced I used it to nudge the angle of some cloud fronts a few degrees, but I only just noticed that all these fronts now have slightly the wrong life time.
Testing it properly I find that with lock turned on, as the angle of the cloud front is altered the V gets progressively closer to A thus shortening the front's life time until it is eventually at 0. Lock has to be turned off to allow the V position to be moved back out again.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 27, 2015, 02:36:01 PM
Raise/lower: Use left click and drag This can set build natural looking hills and mountains very quickly. It's very nice. It reminds me of a blur or fractal tool in a graphics program
Raise/loser Hil: Use left click and drag I'm sure there must be a difference between Raise/lower but I don't understand exactly what it is. This tool feels more like drawning a line across the terrain and feels to me more like my idea of a Biliner tool. Are there any refinement instructions to these last two?
Also Shift left button is lower , left button only is raise.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 27, 2015, 03:50:48 PM
I've just noticed something odd about spawn points in the TE. I have created some new ones and these are set up with the same parameters as the original ones that were converted over from the old terrain. Specifically in Object Properties they are are all "Set to terrain alt". However the converted ones show the correct terrain alt in the Object Properties Y box, i.e if the SP is at 500 ft, that is what it shows. The odd thing is that all the newly made ones all show 0.000000 in the Y box, whatever the alt of the SP.
All the new and old SPs work fine in the alpha game itself and they all display correctly in the TE's viewing window. The only side effect I have found from this is in the TE, where if I move to one of the new SPs using "Go to Object" it takes my viewing position to just above 0 feet, so usually below ground level.
I'm glad you brought that up.
On my screen, I can't see the vehicle spawn points. They show on the CBM window but not in the editor window. It must be my flavor of hardware so I'll attach a dxdiag and a screen capture. I'm using a quarter mile setting circle.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on September 28, 2015, 09:01:55 AM
Unless I'm missing something I can't see a way to add CV groups in the alpha TE yet. Possibly this will be added when the supply convoy groups go in.
You can add them one ship at a time, just make sure the cv is the first one.
I also have forgoten to add the standard groups with the distribution, i'll include them next version.
Here they are, simply unzip this to the ah3terr folder.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 28, 2015, 06:00:56 PM
Thanks for the group files, no problems. I had to hunt for the empty group folder but that won't be a problem after the update.
For the new texture editing...
I won't be able to play with the terrain textures until the middle of the week but I did manage to see how they looked in my test terrain. Once I caught on to replace my terrains empty terrset00 folder with the new one, things were looking golden... for the TE...
Then I tried the OE. Nothing I tried worked and I exhausted every possibility I could think of. I have the impression that if I'd had even one .swa file I could have modified it and saved as, but the OE kept it's focus on building a .til.
I tried to open several of the texture/types in the OE, not the _$.bmp's. No joy. I tried opening the cluttertype bitmap but nothing showed in the OE. I tried setting one of the textures in the Properties windows. The list of things I tried is too long.
I went back and re-read the posted instructions following each step in sequence.
(tried both C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High Alpha\ah3terr\atest\terrset00\texsrc and C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High Alpha\ah3terr\terrset00\texsrc)
One curious thing I ran into when using File/Open Terrain tile, it remembered my .til path and then when trying File/Open Object, it remembered my terrset00 folder path.
Now I have two texsrc folders. The usual one for my CBM and the second one inside the terrset00 folder. I suspected that arrangement might suggest the TE would turn the CBM into a htx file but no clue if it does.
It looks like there are 16 possible clutter objects you can assign to any single terrain type, using the .swa file. Is 16 right and is the assignment supposed to happen in the .swa file?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on September 28, 2015, 06:52:42 PM
In the TE, after I successfully installed the supplied test textures in my test terrain, I reopenend my current project and the test textures were still showing. I had to save my project and reopen to reset the textures back to the default.
Edit: When getting back to work on my project, I found that when I saved to reset the path back to my project, my height map had apparently been replaced by the one from the test terrain. Obiously I don't want to try and duplicate it so call this a preliminary report.
Further: When I decided to create a new blank tiletest (folder etc) terrain, the current oba file was copied into it. That didn't happen before and this was after a clean reboot. Oh, not the project file, the content from the project's oba file. Figured that would be good to know. hehe
Also, I've had the TE's edit window lock up twice while using the shoreline tool on rivers. I was setting all my points manually so next stop is the auto feature.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: jimson on September 30, 2015, 06:46:13 PM
There currently seem to be no dumde, dumcv. dumca shapes. Will we be getting any of those back?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 02, 2015, 09:39:24 AM
Will get them back in jimson
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 02, 2015, 09:40:59 AM
I modified the first post of this thread to have the terrset00.zip file.
I also put a zip file that includes all released texture bit maps. So if you wish to change only a few, you can use theses in your terrset.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 68falcon on October 02, 2015, 09:45:21 AM
:aok
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 03, 2015, 06:22:35 PM
My advice right now is DON'T SAVE YOUR TERRAIN with patch 77.
It's wiped out 4 terrains so far. Maybe a full install will fix it.
Happily, there seems to be enough left of the original terrain to rebuild it after a new patch but be warned for now.
I made backup of the important ones.
More to follow.
Edit:
I'm adding a jpg of the folders showing the changed files when you save.
It also updates the editterr.cfg file to the latest terrain name without the .oba extension. This means that the TE will always try to open the last terrain you saved and crash immediately.
I overwrote the cfg file and opened several terrains to see if it is repeatable and yes, on my system it is. (edit) When you save, that terrain is porked, at least for now. (/edit) I'll try a clean install and see if that fixes it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 03, 2015, 07:01:29 PM
I should add what I've been doing before the crashes.
I'd completed changes to an AH2 terrain, and I tried to convert it. Issues ensued and I thought it must be related to my terrain so I started removing items like factories and made sure it passed Check Terrain. The only issue remaining was some water slopes. I can see that might have been a problem for that particular terrain, but not AH3 terrains already uploadable.
No conversion or even the ability to work on a terrain unless the reinstall fixes whatever I broke.
:furious :bhead
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 03, 2015, 07:44:04 PM
No joy.
I'll put a report in the Patch 77 thread.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Skuzzy on October 05, 2015, 09:57:11 AM
Easyscor, I am trying to duplicate the problem, but I need more information.
Are you doing your work in the AH2 terrain editor, then trying to convert that terrain using the AH3 terrain editor?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 05, 2015, 10:03:24 AM
Easyscor, I am trying to duplicate the problem, but I need more information.
Are you doing your work in the AH2 terrain editor, then trying to convert that terrain using the AH3 terrain editor?
Yes, I'm sending the zipped terrain folder.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 09, 2015, 09:24:26 PM
On two occasions I've been moving multi-mile factories and the TE has crashed. Here's a jpg of what I see after doing this.
I select the object, click the Move push button and start dragging the object around. It jumps between the legal locations and I keep moving it to find the best fit for the terrain. After a few jumps of the object, the TE crashes.
The ref2m00 is off to the left edge of the window in this jpg.
Followup: I can't make it crash unless I have Snap clicked on.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 10, 2015, 06:53:07 AM
While testing, I placed two square tile objects next to each other. The Refinery I set as GMS and the Radar factory I set as BRR.
When running Check terrain, it reported two C02BRR00x objects touching each other INSTEAD of a GMS and a BRR.
~~~~~~~~~~
I discovered this because I was testing to confirm I could place multiple square tile objects next to each other for the avachanl update. I can work around the problem but it certainly won't be as elegant. There were around 7,000 buildings and objects in Paris alone and many of those objects were, and should remain bombable. In avachanl, Paris represents any target city on the Continent, not just Paris. Yeah, I know, the Eiffel tower sort of kills the immersion.
Then there's London and around a dozen minor cities installed in the AH2 version of the terrain.
Key for me is the ability to install all this without exceeding the maximum numbers of clutter buildings and bombable targets that might reduce what can be added to a terrain.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 10, 2015, 10:19:14 AM
While testing, I placed two square tile objects next to each other. The Refinery I set as GMS and the Radar factory I set as BRR.
When running Check terrain, it reported two C02BRR00x objects touching each other INSTEAD of a GMS and a BRR.
~~~~~~~~~~
I discovered this because I was testing to confirm I could place multiple square tile objects next to each other for the avachanl update. I can work around the problem but it certainly won't be as elegant. There were around 7,000 buildings and objects in Paris alone and many of those objects were, and should remain bombable. In avachanl, Paris represents any target city on the Continent, not just Paris. Yeah, I know, the Eiffel tower sort of kills the immersion.
Then there's London and around a dozen minor cities installed in the AH2 version of the terrain.
Key for me is the ability to install all this without exceeding the maximum numbers of clutter buildings and bombable targets that might reduce what can be added to a terrain.
You can only place 2 square objects next to each other across a red boundary. Also the objects must be built to match or their boundaries will not match. Unlike previous AH the boundaries do not nee to be flat on square objects.
The Solution to the issue is make a new objects 2x2 or 4x4.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 10, 2015, 01:37:35 PM
You can only place 2 square objects next to each other across a red boundary. Also the objects must be built to match or their boundaries will not match. Unlike previous AH the boundaries do not nee to be flat on square objects.
The Solution to the issue is make a new objects 2x2 or 4x4.
HiTech
Now that IS elegant. :aok
:cheers:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 16, 2015, 05:52:21 AM
This morning I was looking at the height maps generated by the TE for CraterMA, seeing how to edit them for future terrains, either in Photoshop or maybe Paint Shop Pro if I can convert the format somehow.
There is one file in the folder called height.raw and another called (IIRC) u1000height.raw. The land areas of both files seem to be similar to each other with higher areas represented with lighter shades of grey. However height.raw has all the ocean areas shown as pure white and u1000height.raw has the same ocean areas close to black. These files seem sort of redundant in use to me so I am wondering why there are two height maps or even if there should be two.
My intuition based on the file names and that these are 16 bit unsigned files is that pure black in the file is -1000 feet and pure white is 64,536 feet, is that correct?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 16, 2015, 12:36:24 PM
the u1000 is unsigned and offset by 1000 feet, I.E -1000 feet = 0 in the file. It's sorta a left over from when we were playing with some different import/export stuff.
the heightmap.raw is a SIGNED version. It's what is used by the editor.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 16, 2015, 01:59:25 PM
Thanks HT, I'll ignore the u1000 file then.
I get now that Black is 0 feet land and white is 0 feet water and shades of darker greys represent higher land and lighter greys deeper water.
A problem I am having is that when viewed in Photoshop the raw file's shades of grey seem to have a very low vertical resolution. I made a test terrain with a 5200 ft mountain and the mountain top has a grey shade value of only 13, fourteen shades lighter than sea level terrain, which works out to roughly 371 feet per change in shade of grey. This doesn't seem right as you can change the height to within a foot in the TE.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 16, 2015, 02:10:41 PM
I get now that Black is 0 feet land and white is 0 feet water and shades of darker greys represent higher land and lighter greys deeper water.
A problem I am having is that when viewed in Photoshop the raw file's shades of grey seem to have a very low vertical resolution. I made a test terrain with a 5200 ft mountain and the mountain top has a grey shade value of only 13, fourteen shades lighter than sea level terrain, which works out to roughly 371 feet per change in shade of grey. This doesn't seem right as you can change the height to within a foot in the TE.
371 seems like a strange value, I would have thought it came out in 256 foot increments. I.E. work similar to an rgb value.
The issue your having with photo shop is why we gave up on the u1000. We had created it for photo shop.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 16, 2015, 03:10:39 PM
I got a more precise value for the top of the mountain at 5,335 feet, but that makes the vertical resolution 381 feet. As I don't know how close the mountain's height is to the nearest change in grey value, its only going to be a rough guide anyway. 14 lots of 256 feet makes 3,584 feet so its definitely not that though.
Oddly though, a 30,000 ft mountain I just made got a grey value of 117 which worked out to almost exactly 256 feet per grey shade. Definitely not showing more than 13 for the 5.3K mountain though.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 16, 2015, 03:40:50 PM
Made a series of big plateaus at different heights:
30,000 ft gives a grey of 117 (256.4 feet) 25,000 ft gives a grey of 97 (257.7 feet) 20,000 ft gives a grey of 77 (259.7 feet) 15,000 ft gives a grey of 56 (267.8 feet) 10,000 ft gives a grey of 34 (294.1 feet) 5,000 ft gives a grey of 11 (454.5 feet) 2,500 ft gives a grey of 4 (625 feet)
Even given the coarse resolution there seems to be a definite curving progression as altitudes decrease.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on October 16, 2015, 05:03:50 PM
Made a series of big plateaus at different heights:
30,000 ft gives a grey of 117 (256.4 feet) 25,000 ft gives a grey of 97 (257.7 feet) 20,000 ft gives a grey of 77 (259.7 feet) 15,000 ft gives a grey of 56 (267.8 feet) 10,000 ft gives a grey of 34 (294.1 feet) 5,000 ft gives a grey of 11 (454.5 feet) 2,500 ft gives a grey of 4 (625 feet)
Even given the coarse resolution there seems to be a definite curving progression as altitudes decrease.
Almost as if there doing luminosity?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on October 16, 2015, 10:43:19 PM
Made a series of big plateaus at different heights:
30,000 ft gives a grey of 117 (256.4 feet) 25,000 ft gives a grey of 97 (257.7 feet) 20,000 ft gives a grey of 77 (259.7 feet) 15,000 ft gives a grey of 56 (267.8 feet) 10,000 ft gives a grey of 34 (294.1 feet) 5,000 ft gives a grey of 11 (454.5 feet) 2,500 ft gives a grey of 4 (625 feet)
Even given the coarse resolution there seems to be a definite curving progression as altitudes decrease.
Yup
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 17, 2015, 01:53:07 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by that. It seems to me that the routine that translates the height data into shades of grey is using an exponential rather than linear progression and is also using 8 bit rather than 16 bit values.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: mrmidi on October 17, 2015, 08:54:40 AM
oofff
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on October 26, 2015, 09:05:46 AM
Object Editor patch 79
The 'Current Shape' window was caged within the main window on this machine without a video card and unviewable. I'm on the road and working on a Tablet-Laptop hybrid.
dxdiag and jpg included.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 68falcon on October 28, 2015, 02:14:36 PM
Check terrain for errors showing cvtg has to many towers. There is a tower on the CV and a Tower on the Battle Ship
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 30, 2015, 05:15:55 AM
I find working with the RAW images the TE now generates to be a bit of a pain. Photoshop Elements will load them but won't let me work with the file unless I convert it down to 8-bit and I can't see how to convert it back. Besides I don't like Photoshop and would rather work in Paint Shop Pro.
I see there are various image converting utilities that change RAW files to BMP or JPEG but these seem to be geared for the various camera formats of RAW (Canon etc). Is there a cheap image converter program that will change the TE's RAW files into BMP and back again?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on October 30, 2015, 11:58:50 PM
I find working with the RAW images the TE now generates to be a bit of a pain. Photoshop Elements will load them but won't let me work with the file unless I convert it down to 8-bit and I can't see how to convert it back. Besides I don't like Photoshop and would rather work in Paint Shop Pro.
I see there are various image converting utilities that change RAW files to BMP or JPEG but these seem to be geared for the various camera formats of RAW (Canon etc). Is there a cheap image converter program that will change the TE's RAW files into BMP and back again?
I might be misunderstanding you but the .raw files are raw binary data, 16-bit signed integers to be exact, with no bitmap header, or any header at all. It's not an image format at all. The AH .raw format is not the same as the raw format from cameras. If you wanted to edit them with a bitmap painting program you would need to find one that could handle extremely high resolution/high dynamic range color. Normal bitmap programs either assume grayscale with 8 bits per pixel, i.e. 256 shades of gray, or as 24 bit color, which consists of 3 8-bit bytes, ie red, green, and blue (or 32-bit color which adds an 8-bit alpha, transparency, channel). You'd have to find a bitmap paint program that would handle extreme dynamic range 16-bit grayscale. Does that even exist? If you use a program that wants to convert to 8-bit you're going to get garbage out of the .raw files as every other point is going to be taken from either the lower byte of the height or the higher byte. I can't imagine any camera that digitizes at 16-bit resolution (65,536 levels of intensity) except maybe special astro cameras.
If you were able to write or find a program that converted AH .raw files to 8-bit grayscale then you would loose all the extra resolution in the altitude points of the terrain that AH3 added. Instead of 32,768 possible heights above sea level that AH3 allows, you be left with only 256. So you would be limited to altitudes below 256 feet or you'd have to write a special program to scale everything to the peak altitude (like AH2 used to do).
Why not use the program mentioned at the beginning of this thread? Isn't it designed to edit terrains?
Forgive me if I am totally misunderstanding what you are trying to do (I've been known to do that).
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 31, 2015, 03:12:06 AM
I was thinking of making a new MA terrain. The way I like to do this is to create a to-scale field layout and height map in Paint Shop Pro. Its easier to get a fair layout of fields with them all the correct distances apart than trying to do it in the TE. The height map is built up in layers like a contour map, i.e one layer at sea level, one at 500 ft, one at 2,000 ft, one at 4,000 ft and so on. While this might seem a very time consuming way of doing it I use various tricks to reduce the time it takes. Once I am happy with the map I gaussian blur the layers and save the result as a grey scale image. Doing it this way I can create a precise layout of mountains and hills with valleys running exactly where I want and with flat areas around fields and SPs. I also use the file to create a temporary CBM for the TE with all the field and strat positions on shown on it, which makes it a lot quicker to place the 100s of objects.
I tried L3DT Pro briefly a while ago but I didn't have much luck with it, something I mentioned earlier in this thread. What I tried was importing a height map from my converted CraterMA terrain into it. It generated what looked like a very high plateau across the ocean areas with the land areas very low. I presume this has something to do with the water areas being much lighter in the file. I also ran through a few of the tutorials for the program to get a feel for how it works. It has a very low resolution map making screen where you can tell it you want a mountain range of a particular style somewhere around here, some hills about there, some water over there. Then you let it generate the terrain for you, which it does very well. However this map screen is nowhere near precise enough for what I want to do so I gave up on the program.
Thanks for your explanation 715, I understand things much better now. It seems though from what you are saying that I am going to be retiring from the map making business.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 31, 2015, 06:02:01 AM
Thinking about it some more I do have a way round this. I can create a height map for the current TE and then use the new TE to convert that terrain over.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on October 31, 2015, 01:19:35 PM
I looked more carefully and came up with this from the GIMP FAQ:
Quote: For some industries, especially photography, 24-bit colour depths (8 bits per channel) are a real barrier to entry. Once again, it's GEGL to the rescue. Work on integrating GEGL into GIMP began after 2.4 was released, and will span across several stable releases. This work will be completed in GIMP 3.0, which will have full support for high bit depths. If you need such support now and can't wait, cinepaint and Krita support 16 bits per channel now.
The current development branch, GIMP 2.9.x, supports higher bit depths than the 2.8 and older 8-Bit-per-component...
http://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#c16bit (use search on "16-bit" to scroll down to 16-bit section)
So there are graphics programs that will support 16-bits per channel (GIMP is a free image editing program available for Linux, Windows, and Macs). I don't know about cinepaint and Krita but they apparently support 16-bits per channel now. You would then only need a program that inter-converts AH3 .raw into whatever standard hicolor format is used.
However, your plan of using the old TE to create the terrain and then having the new TE convert it will probably work better for you. (I assume the new TE interpolates the old terrains smoothly?)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on October 31, 2015, 01:36:51 PM
(I assume the new TE interpolates the old terrains smoothly?)
It is not ideal as the old height map is less detailed, the vertical resolution is about 60 feet and it is not possible to alter the water depth. However it will do as a backup plan. I didn't want to start serious work on a terrain until I knew I could use the height map and this method will do a reasonable job.
Thanks, I never thought of Gimp. I'll give it a go. Come to think of it I am not even using the latest version of Paint Shop Pro, I'll have to check that out too.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on November 01, 2015, 01:17:53 AM
I'm pretty sure GIMP doesn't do 16-bit color yet (it's coming) but those other two mentioned do (cinepaint and Krita). Links to those are inside the link I listed.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 01, 2015, 05:06:13 AM
Sorry, was really tired last night and what you wrote about Gimp didn't register properly. I tried it anyway and it came up with "unsupported file format". The latest version of PSP was no different to the old one. It sort of loads the file, but in a corrupted fashion. I didn't try Cinepix because I got a dodgy website warning when I tried to download it.
Krita however looks promising. It does not recognise the RAW format directly but I managed to load, edit and save the heightmap with a bit of mucking about. In case anyone else wants to try it here is the procedure:
To load the height file into Krita hit "File/Open" and navigate to the working folder. Then change the "All supported formats" filter to "All files", click on your height map file and hit "Open". This brings up a "Choose Filter" window with a list of formats. In this list select "r16 heightmap" and hit "OK". This brings up a "Heightmap Import Options" window, set the size to "4096" and the button to "PC" and hit "OK".
Save the file as an r16 heightmap. This gives the file an "r16" suffix. Once this is edited manually to "raw" the TE loads the file successfully as a signed height map.
The only slight issue with the program is that it displays the file rotated 90 degrees to the right. This is no big deal though as it only takes a few seconds to rotate it left for editing and then back again before saving.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on November 01, 2015, 12:09:41 PM
I'm surprised it handles signed 16-bit. I would have thought you'd have to work with offset unsigned .raw files (where 32,768 is 0 ft, or however AH3 handles unsigned).
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 01, 2015, 02:14:41 PM
The default height map generated by the TE has white as 0 feet water and black as 0 feet land, with shades of dark and light grey as higher land and deeper water respectively. It also generates a second height map with black representing a minimum altitude of -1000 feet. I guess that when re-importing into the TE signed is used for the first type and unsigned for the second.
My assumption has been the altitude range is going to be -1,000 feet to +31,768 feet although I am not entirely sure as the displayed grey values used in the height files appear to be bugged currently. So I decided to do a test in the TE to find the maximum altitude of terrain that could be set with the "Set Alt" button. This gave some strange results when I set a terrain altitude of 32,768 feet or more. Instead of very high land the TE generates visually what looks like 1,000 feet deep ocean floor but that shows a Y value of 0 in the position box.
Thanks again for your software suggestions 715, I'd have never found Krita by myself.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 01, 2015, 06:27:28 PM
32767 is max siged 16 bit value which is0111111111111111 binary
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 02, 2015, 08:42:16 AM
Sorry for the bad information on the u1000heightmap.raw file. It also is functional.
It simply has -1000 feet elevation as zero. So after loading the u1000 file (ImPort unsigned under the File menu) it subtracts 1000 feet from the elevation.
You can use either one as you wish, if the editor you are using does not support signed.
But I am also confuse , greebo was saying it worked in the current release for him to edit the raw height maps.
The format is exactly the same except 8 verts per mile instead of 2. And signed (which can be taken care of with the u1000 file).
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 02, 2015, 10:25:26 AM
Maths isn't my strong point as you can probably tell. I've been approaching this from an art POV and just been trying to figure out what shade of grey to paint on the map to get a given altitude. The problem has been that I have been trying to do it with programs that only let me paint in 8-bit values and this left me confused. Photoshop Elements let me view the file but wanted it changed to 8-bit for editing.
Now that I've got Krita I have something that lets me edit the file in 16-bit and I can actually make some progress. Currently I have imported a TE height map into Krita, painted a hill onto it, saved it and re-imported it back to the TE complete with new hill. I have also found a calculator application on the internet that converts decimal values into signed 16-bit values so I ought to be able to use those values to paint my terrain.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on November 02, 2015, 01:52:59 PM
You could use the u1000heightmap.raw (unsigned) and just make sure to stay above 3E8 hex for the shade value for land. (3E8 will map to 0 feet.) Maybe you could paint the whole image that value of very dark grey (3E8) and then use "make darker" brushes to make water and "lighten" brushes to make land.
Or you could use the signed heightmap.raw and keep everything below 7FFF (32767 ft), thereby avoiding hex values that the TE will interpret as negative when using signed import. Then you could paint the water (negative altitudes) after importing back into the TE.
715
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 02, 2015, 05:34:04 PM
The last couple pages of this thread has made my brain short circuit. :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Drano on November 02, 2015, 05:57:15 PM
The last couple pages of this thread has made my brain short circuit. :O
+1
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 02, 2015, 06:34:38 PM
Are we able to manipulate the size and shape of small mounds where we can set the pitch angle and length of run up different faces of the mound? Or is that something you build as a custom object and apply it to a terrain?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 03, 2015, 04:47:53 AM
In the TE there is a tool which lets you build a circular mound. You set the brush size and a circle of that diameter appears on the terrain window to allow you to place it. There is also a setting box to alter the mound's height. There is no setting for approach angle but you should be able to figure that from the diameter and height.
Sorry about all the technical stuff on the last couple of pages. I doubt many terrain builders will get into editing the height map manually but if anyone's interested I can post a tutorial on how to do it once I am sure I have figured it out correctly.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 03, 2015, 09:57:07 AM
In the TE there is a tool which lets you build a circular mound. You set the brush size and a circle of that diameter appears on the terrain window to allow you to place it. There is also a setting box to alter the mound's height. There is no setting for approach angle but you should be able to figure that from the diameter and height.
Sorry about all the technical stuff on the last couple of pages. I doubt many terrain builders will get into editing the height map manually but if anyone's interested I can post a tutorial on how to do it once I am sure I have figured it out correctly.
You can also use the plow tool. Set the height you wish at both ends, then plow between will make an even ramp between them.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 04, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
Thank you both.
I'm building an offline tool for myself using terrain features as a taxi up hardstand to test convergences. I wish I knew how to modify the new ammo bunkers instead because they have flat faces and a flat top, then drop them in place. Depending on the fighter, you need a different angled slope to ease the wheels down and not break the fuselage or wings on radiators or wheel doors. The horizontal line on the target lines up with the aircraft center line once you level the aircraft.
Can you simply place a tank on a terrain as an inanimate object for ranging target offline to learn your tank sights against? Is there a way to define linear distance on the terrain in 1000yd units? I want to set them every 1000 out to 7000. Say three tanks at each point, frontal, side and off angled.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on November 04, 2015, 02:53:28 PM
I'm pretty sure the distance units in the TE (both altitude and horizontal distance) are feet.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 05, 2015, 07:26:26 PM
How do I fill the 2 ft wide seam that won't close between the edge of a base object and the grid line the seam runs along?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 05, 2015, 10:46:00 PM
How do I fill the 2 ft wide seam that won't close between the edge of a base object and the grid line the seam runs along?
In this case, for a single base, select the base, I'm assuming you know to double click in the selected box to bring up properties. Click Apply and see if that fixed it, it should. Then ok and save, build etc.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 06, 2015, 08:35:44 AM
How do I fill the 2 ft wide seam that won't close between the edge of a base object and the grid line the seam runs along?
When you build it will do all Objects Also under the file menu (Level terrain on all square objects) it will do them all at once for you.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 06, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
Tried selecting and applying and leveling terrain objects. Even apply build again.
Still has an open seam around the field. On the north side of the field I have the elevation dropping from 2000ft which is the level alt of the island down into a hole with a 1500ft drop. The B25H 75mm drops 1000ft by 5000yds. The slope first drops to 1900ft then 500 ft. I'm testing slopes to use for hard standing aircraft for leveling them and shooting at the target. Farther to the right I have a long plain facing north adjacent to the VH for GV gunnery ranging. No one ever told me if I can place tanks as static objects on a map. If I can, I will use them as ranging targets at every 1000yds.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 06, 2015, 12:59:52 PM
Just checking, that screen shot was directly after level terrain? I.E. you didn't try change terrain height after the function?
Also is that in game or in the TE?
Also you might have a small rotation on the field.
To fix that select the field, and the use one of the four buttons U,D,R,L to rotate it exactly on a 90 deg.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 06, 2015, 02:01:55 PM
Ok, I hate learning Gimp or Photoshop just to use a single feature and this is just toooo much fun. :bhead
From objects, the default is select. I out lined the object and it came up in the list. First tried to just rotate it manually with the mouse. Too gross of movements using the mouse. Eventually using the rotate selection and the movement buttons I got it to snap into perfect alignment. But, no one told me just saving wouldn't have any effect. I had to drive to that edge and go Whuuuuaaaa!!!!!?????? The gap was still there and I swear I watched the editor fix the problem because I stuck my virtual nose 3ft from it and it was gone......... :bhead
Repeated all the steps but I built the terrain. Bingoooooo......:O
Am I able to select a tank as an object and place it on my terrain as a static object? Otherwise I need to find a shack or sheep pen that fits the dimensions for a tank silhouette. I bet you guys are gonna make me push buttons until I put wings on my cats with RATOs and aim them at Texas........... :neener:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 06, 2015, 02:34:16 PM
Yes you can add a tank, but it will act like a building for damage.
Simply check the show all shape check box.
Selected the tank like tiger1.
Click on place you wish it. And click add shape.
You may need to raise it a few feet, because of where the center of the object is.
To do this select the tank. Double click it in the list. Add 3 or 4 feet to the Y value, and make sure set to terrain alt is not checked.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 06, 2015, 09:55:31 PM
Three things:
1. - How do I tell distance from a fixed point so that I can set static tank objects down every 1000yds. Can I adjust their orientation to compass points over 360 degrees? 2. - How do I create spawn points for GV along with the arrows? 3. How do I create a clipboard map that shows some ocean and the spawn point arrows?
I have the slope off the end of the small airfield runway to bench stand the planes. I'm still working through the third gradient, thought two would do the job, one dropping from 2000ft to 1865ft and a second to 1840ft would cover all the planes. Seems the La has very long gear and needs a steeper slope than the Yak-3. I'll have to test 1825ft for the Las. While most everything else can use either the 1840 slope or the 1865 slope to level for static shooting. I will be on my third slope over the 1500ft deep 9000yd long ditch. Neat trick making the level line on the B25H through the 4 50cals in the nose. And all of the motor cannon are up tilted.......meh.. :lipsrsealed:
I need to know how to put in GV spawns intentionally rather than the one time today I got lucky pushing buttons and can't remember what I did. I have a mesa above the field that arcs around one quarter of the drone circuit. Since my island elevation is 2000ft to allow for a 1500ft 75mm round drop at 5000yds. The mesa has a level at 3500ft and 4000ft. I can drive a wirbel from the first spawn at 3500ft up onto the 4000ft elevation which takes time. I couldn't get another spawn point put in by accident pressing buttons, so I graded the boundary area for a drive up. I see that the smallest diameter of the elevation brush is the finest you can effect a small area.
The mesa solution gives me the drones flying over in a circuit at MA normal engagement altitudes to practice gunnery with an osti or wirbel. Maybe an M16. I just need a second spawn in the center of the 4000ft section so I don't spend all day driving up to it.
This is neet has heck. I should have built this gunnery terrain years ago versus finding slopes on different maps to perform static bench stand shooting. Now easing your main gear over the edge is another skill, especially remembering to reduce RPM all the way so you only inch along. Go too fast and the engine weight and torque pulls you down the slope. Go slow enough and your brakes will hold you in place while you level the plane. And leveling the plane is watching the artificial horizon while you get part of the way over the edge and tap one break or the other to level the line. Then in F3 mode using the NumP_2 key you use the throttle to lower your nose or prop hub or 50cals as your meet point with the horizontal line on the target...Oh and you set the target about 2-6 yards so your alignment point pokes through.... :O
It's easier to do than the description is to read.
The point to all of this....anyone have any of my B25 very long range reticles or my 410 5000yd reticle? How many of you know that your guns are actually hitting higher than the top of your cockpit at 400 yards in some planes? Ever wanted to practice offline with a wirble at the same altitudes you really engage cons over a field? It's amazing where your bullets are really going when you turn on the lead computing gunsight.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 07, 2015, 07:18:24 AM
1. - How do I tell distance from a fixed point so that I can set static tank objects down every 1000yds. Can I adjust their orientation to compass points over 360 degrees? 2. - How do I create spawn points for GV along with the arrows? 3. How do I create a clipboard map that shows some ocean and the spawn point arrows?
I have the slope off the end of the small airfield runway to bench stand the planes. I'm still working through the third gradient, thought two would do the job, one dropping from 2000ft to 1865ft and a second to 1840ft would cover all the planes. Seems the La has very long gear and needs a steeper slope than the Yak-3. I'll have to test 1825ft for the Las. While most everything else can use either the 1840 slope or the 1865 slope to level for static shooting. I will be on my third slope over the 1500ft deep 9000yd long ditch. Neat trick making the level line on the B25H through the 4 50cals in the nose. And all of the motor cannon are up tilted.......meh.. :lipsrsealed:
I need to know how to put in GV spawns intentionally rather than the one time today I got lucky pushing buttons and can't remember what I did. I have a mesa above the field that arcs around one quarter of the drone circuit. Since my island elevation is 2000ft to allow for a 1500ft 75mm round drop at 5000yds. The mesa has a level at 3500ft and 4000ft. I can drive a wirbel from the first spawn at 3500ft up onto the 4000ft elevation which takes time. I couldn't get another spawn point put in by accident pressing buttons, so I graded the boundary area for a drive up. I see that the smallest diameter of the elevation brush is the finest you can effect a small area.
The mesa solution gives me the drones flying over in a circuit at MA normal engagement altitudes to practice gunnery with an osti or wirbel. Maybe an M16. I just need a second spawn in the center of the 4000ft section so I don't spend all day driving up to it.
This is neet has heck. I should have built this gunnery terrain years ago versus finding slopes on different maps to perform static bench stand shooting. Now easing your main gear over the edge is another skill, especially remembering to reduce RPM all the way so you only inch along. Go too fast and the engine weight and torque pulls you down the slope. Go slow enough and your brakes will hold you in place while you level the plane. And leveling the plane is watching the artificial horizon while you get part of the way over the edge and tap one break or the other to level the line. Then in F3 mode using the NumP_2 key you use the throttle to lower your nose or prop hub or 50cals as your meet point with the horizontal line on the target...Oh and you set the target about 2-6 yards so your alignment point pokes through.... :O
It's easier to do than the description is to read.
The point to all of this....anyone have any of my B25 very long range reticles or my 410 5000yd reticle? How many of you know that your guns are actually hitting higher than the top of your cockpit at 400 yards in some planes? Ever wanted to practice offline with a wirble at the same altitudes you really engage cons over a field? It's amazing where your bullets are really going when you turn on the lead computing gunsight.
Most of what you can do is adjust their XYZ coordinates in the Properties panel after the placing them close
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 07, 2015, 02:40:33 PM
Is there a grid I can make visible and 3000ft x 3000ft.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 07, 2015, 03:54:22 PM
Sorry,
The spawn arrow points are so large they became a yellow three pointed blob on top of the field in the map. I have one spawn button for GV "N". I cannot get two more to show up but, I can use .fly "number" to spawn a wirbel onto each mesa 3500, 4000 and 4400 now. At least now I know why my wirbel shooting has been sucking.
I may have missed something, but when I bring up my terrain I cannot locate the three vehicle spawns I created. Either there is a setting that makes them visible or a file that itemizes them with their grid locations and alt.
Wonder if road beds have an alt setting to push them or segments up from the base terrain elevation..even on sloping elevations going up or down rather than a traverse...I still need to see if I can connect my "U" shaped mesa with a road from end to end.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 07, 2015, 09:18:30 PM
My head hurts but, figured it out.
Add an object to the object group after you select a spot to plop it down. Then select it's object ID, the rotate option, hit a direction button and rotate it in only 4 directions at cardinal points. I now have a gunnery range filled with tanks out to about 4000yds. And a spawn point to the zero line defined by a line of street lamps to the range so you don't have to drive a tank 2000yds. Zeiss optics are incredible for testing range.
I learned the hard way if you uncheck setting the object to the level of the terrain, and you want to pull your tank 3ft or so out of the ground. You have to add 3ft or so to what ever the current terrain elevation is. 2003.6 weeeeeeee... Other wise I spent about 15 minutes freeking over disappearing tank objects. Seems the center line of the tank object is what was set level with the terrain elevation. Not the bottom of the treds and wheels.
Still need to figure out how to make the clipboard map larger and show the island and some ocean rather than the field and black and the spawn arrows. Also need to figure out how to make 4 spawn buttons show up versus using the text command ".fly x". Is there a properties GUI that controls the size of the spawn arrow?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 08, 2015, 01:58:36 PM
Rotate the spawn point to the button you wish to have it use
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 08, 2015, 04:20:40 PM
Quote
I learned the hard way if you uncheck setting the object to the level of the terrain, and you want to pull your tank 3ft or so out of the ground. You have to add 3ft or so to what ever the current terrain elevation is. 2003.6 weeeeeeee... Other wise I spent about 15 minutes freeking over disappearing tank objects. Seems the center line of the tank object is what was set level with the terrain elevation. Not the bottom of the treds and wheels.
If you saw it, HT stated you would have to do this. Each vehicle's center height is different by a foot or two, so you'll have to get in close to see were it sits perfectly with the ground. I had the heights all written down from when I made my tank gunnery range terrain on the server, but I can't find them, or I'd hook you up with the info, sorry.
As for the spawn points, if you use default fields, the first spawn, the hanger spawn, is built in. On a custom field, you have to add it. The first vehicle spawn you lay is automatically the hanger spawn with custom fields, even if it's not placed in the hanger. Let's say the default vehicle spawn faces south out of the hanger. Even though it faces south, it will be your H spawn. You can add one more spawn facing south on your terrain (from that field) and it will become your S spawn. Any additional spawns from that field cannot be facing the same direction as any spawns you have already placed from that field. You will need to rotate them. It's best to rotate the spawn points so they face the same direction as they relate from the field, so it will make sense to players. Having Spawn NE on the SW side of the field will lead to confusion. Hope this helps. :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 09, 2015, 12:43:26 PM
I have a 4 mile tank gunnery range by one grid width with tanks set everywhere. Radar towers marking every mile on each side with radar towers and flack towers across the 4 mile mark. And the shooting stand is elevated 50ft above the level of the 4 mile plain. Most of the tank optics are not that good at 4 miles. I set a 5000yd range with tanks off the back side of my airfield with the last 1000yds rising up 50ft higher for the 88 to see the 5000yd tanks. Wish the 88 had direct fire optics installed.
At one point with all of the tanks set to "structure" I was able to reduce the down time to 30 seconds and the pounds of bombs so a single AP round would kill any tank. This visual effect helped immensely with both jabo and tanks. I still place tanks in the drone circle for real shooting practice with IL2 and Ju87. Then today I have an interesting problem.
1. - Nothing I do with the object settings will any longer allow the tanks to be destroyed. 2. - Now all of my tanks and GV won't shift out of 1st gear. The M8 finally did after the last build processing this morning.
Is it possible placing part of an object on the edge of the small airfield larger object is effecting the tanks?
With a 4400ft mesa under the drone flight path, I never realized how bad my lead assumptions were in the game with a wirbel. I used a small airfield for the single base on the terrain. I still can only get one GV spawn button for the north. I have to ".fly 2" to get vehicles up on the mesa spawn to the west. Still haven't figured out how to use the object copy or to create roads and rivers. More button pushing as close to the ground as I can stand to look at my screen. Once I put my virtual nose 30-70ft from the ground, it became obvious how to put objects on the terrain and manipulate them with move and rotate.
This is not something for the attention span of a gnat.....
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 09, 2015, 02:33:06 PM
Quote
I still can only get one GV spawn button for the north.
You can place additional spawns north of your field, but only one of the spawns (the one you already have) can have the spawn directional arrow pointing north. The others will have to have their arrows rotated, such as NW & NE. Each spawn requires its own button on the CBM, so you can't have two GV spawns facing the same direction if they are from the same field. Even if you have 8 GV spawns all in a row north of the field, only one can be given the north CBM button. All the others need to have their arrow rotated to receive their own button, even though they are all north of the field. The button each spawn receives is purely dependent on its direction arrow, regardless of where the spawn is in relation to the field. If you have a spawn directly north of the field, but the arrow points due south, it becomes your S spawn.
I don't know if using structure for the tank targets is causing the GV issue, but if you change their type to Fuel Bunker, the tank target will explode & then burn. I neat after effect.
Don't give up!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 09, 2015, 02:53:09 PM
Are you telling me to locate my invisible spawn entry point object I set down on the mesa, highlight it in the object group list. And use the rotate and set it left to west? I have caught on that all objects are set down oriented north.
By default only an entpnt object is in the object list. I've been using the expanded list to use the spawnentry object. What is the difference between these object's functions? I noticed once you set a spawn, making the map responds with an arrow. In my case the two spawns are about 1000yds off the small field's object edge NE and W. So I have two gigantic yellow arrow heads versus looking at the map like I was at 30,000ft and seeing normal sized field icons and spawn point arrows.
Never ending fun.....
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 09, 2015, 04:32:08 PM
Rotated my object left and ended up with a new spawn button. Still cannot get the structure objects to respond to the down time and percentage of 1000lb bomb setting. I tried resetting the auto ack to come back up in 15 seconds, I get 120 minutes for 0.15. Should I be trying to set down time and hardness in each objects properties GUI?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 09, 2015, 06:27:43 PM
That may be something HTC needs to play with to make sure it's working correctly.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 09, 2015, 08:09:24 PM
Rotated my object left and ended up with a new spawn button. Still cannot get the structure objects to respond to the down time and percentage of 1000lb bomb setting. I tried resetting the auto ack to come back up in 15 seconds, I get 120 minutes for 0.15. Should I be trying to set down time and hardness in each objects properties GUI?
I have not tested hardness in 6 years or so, downtime much longer. I'm still not home but I brought a copy of my manual. Here are the appropriate lines:
Down Time is the time in seconds the object will remain down when destroyed. Rebuild time is exactly half of a given object’s down time. (That would be with strat disabled.)
Hardness determines how much damage an object must receive to be destroyed. The Hardness setting changes the amount of damage an object will sustain. Each lb for bombs needs 6.4 points of hardness, and each 1000 points of hardness equal one HE Panzer round.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 10, 2015, 12:31:22 PM
Tried setting structure to .0001 of 1000lb bomb and time .03. No change, but, about 6 builds ago on sunday night it was working for everything I set it on. I tried adjusting other object's settings with only the time seeming to change like 140 hours to 120 hours and things like that. I should try something like a fuel storage tank on the base and change it's 1000lb bomb setting so a single 37mm will pop it as a test.
I was thinking of creating a bombing target with buildings in concentric rings or some pattern like that. Then find out how to create an air spawn for bombers to pop them up to a good training altitude. Or several air spawns with different alt. That way you can bomb, bail, and re-spawn in a short time period. Maybe even put in a port near by. Can the CV have a default patrol pattern set so when you first start up the map it is running in one of those standard defensive circles we use in the MA to thwart bomb runs? Might be of some use to players who like to bomb them. And setting the down time to 30 seconds will help.
The objects like tanks and buildings I set on the terrain, when they are destroyed are they supposed to not give a message about their destruction? Making a giant bombing target with a pattern of buildings, that would be helpful feedback for the player practicing level bombing. I would put in a town for this but, a bombing target made of destroyable buildings is a neat touch.
This is all the things I used to wish for in the wish list for offline training, and the wishes of some other players over the years. Hopefully it's something I can present as a download like my old Historic Pack of gunsights.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 10, 2015, 03:08:31 PM
A CV must have a default patrol route on a terrain, so it is not only possible, it is required. It sounds like you are making the exact same type of terrain that I have on the server for AH2, with a tank gunnery range and a bombing range, so everything you've listed as wanting to do is doable. I hadn't really planned on making an AH3 version of my terrain, so this will be most welcome.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 11, 2015, 08:40:45 AM
I would assume the tanks are stuck in first gear is because of either slope on the terrain or the terrain type.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 11, 2015, 02:12:10 PM
I would assume the tanks are stuck in first gear is because of either slope on the terrain or the terrain type.
HiTech
I ran another terrain build and the tanks cycled through all gears flawlessly.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 11, 2015, 03:24:40 PM
If I use HE ammo in the manned 88 and tanks, my object setting for the hardness value of a 1000lb bomb works. When I switch to AP, I get the impact explosion but other wise the static tanks I set out as "structure", will not blow up and disappear for the down time I set. The manned 37mm can kill Tigers because the round is HE.
Where can I set the hardness related to AP ammo?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 11, 2015, 06:35:12 PM
You can't
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 11, 2015, 06:58:13 PM
Set them as "bombable" to disappear, or as fuel bunkers to have a fire after they are destroyed.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 12, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Does the TT object have to be placed on "0" elevation because of the ponds? When I flatten a 2050ft mesa to receive it, clicking OK on the properties GUI generates a Windows error GUI.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 12, 2015, 02:40:24 PM
The TT object does not have to be placed at 0 feet, it is placed the same way as any other object group. I'd suggest placing it over 70 feet as there is (or at least was) a minor graphics glitch when it is placed lower. See post 111 in this tread.
I am not sure why you are getting an error as I did not. Can you post the settings you are putting in the properties box?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 12, 2015, 03:43:41 PM
Greebo,
Laid it down on a 2050ft mesa, took the defaults and made it "structure" [STR].
Setting the tank objects to FUB allows me to change the HE amount needed to destroy it. The best I can get time down to is 120 minutes. As VOD or STR I could get the down time to 1 minute. Changing the hardness for those two accomplished nothing for the AP ammo. The fuel bunkers will go down from AP, not anything else I set to FUB. When Hitech says "no" it's a nope.....wonder what made it possible for one day that the AP ammo was destroying everything I set to STR.....on well.
So for bombing targets and HE ammo at least, things can be made to go boom. For AP then, the really fantastic hit response is the prize, or set another tank in the drone circle if I want a kaboom. Weeeeeeeee.... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 12, 2015, 06:40:27 PM
Try setting TT to "groupmaster" instead.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 12, 2015, 09:02:13 PM
I placing the wrong one of the two objects that make up the total object down. I noticed 70ft accounts for all of the terrain variations in the object itself and only allows the object's lake to show.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 12, 2015, 11:51:32 PM
Patch 84
In AH2, the lines for Boat entry points were blue, not so in the AH3 TE Show Entry. All entry points are yellow(?). It's a small point but worth keeping in mind.
Terrain editor: Building terrain One of my test terrains with a single A1 base has several custom objects but no 'Paths', TGs or Waypoints. Check terrain still flags each custom object as an error, as well as my missing Rook and Knight fields and HQs.
When building, (yes it builds) the editing part of the window goes blank with the disturbing message in the window title, "(not responding)". The Map window remains, as well as the tabs of the edit window but the build (Checking for errors...) window may drop behind other windows on the desktop. Sorry, I can't remember what I was doing when it happened and it might have been the Build complete window. I include it in case someone else notices later.
As well as part of the edit window going blank, the Checking for errors window goes blank after displaying the first 4 lines. It's disturbing, but the window starts responding again and displays the missing lines before the build completes after that.
For the first time, I clicked the Cancel button in the Checking for errors window in the middle of a build and it worked.
I'm anxious to see my river paths at least in offline mode. In the meantime I guess I'll keep working on more custom objects. I'd like both features to be uploadable. :bolt: :bolt:
Another collision difference I've noticed between AH2 and 3 is the missing hit sprites in the trees when firing guns at them. The exploding foliage is great but I'm left wondering what happened to the hit sprites when hitting the tree trunks?
I was prompted to notice this when hit sprites appeared in the transparent parts of a surface in an _alpha texture for the Eiffel tower. Just when everything else is working great, the transparent portions cause a plane or bullet to collide. :bhead Hit a pixel, yes, then I want it to collide but if it's blue sky? :bhead Argh, LOL. I don't know if it's my flags, the texture or the current state of the AH3 Alpha.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 13, 2015, 01:51:02 PM
At least now on the terrain after you "build", when you reopen the terrain you see your spawn points. I had to exit then reopen after I ran the build for alpha 84 to see the tiny arrow.
If I place a spawnentry point in the water, does it automatically limit it to PT to use that spawn? And If I give one elevation, say 10,000ft, does that automatically limit it to aircraft? What is the limit on maximum numbers of spawn from a field?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 13, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
When building, (yes it builds) the editing part of the window goes blank with the disturbing message in the window title, "(not responding)". The Map window remains, as well as the tabs of the edit window but the build (Checking for errors...) window may drop behind other windows on the desktop. Sorry, I can't remember what I was doing when it happened and it might have been the Build complete window. I include it in case someone else notices later.
As well as part of the edit window going blank, the Checking for errors window goes blank after displaying the first 4 lines. It's disturbing, but the window starts responding again and displays the missing lines before the build completes after that.
This was apparently caused by improper textures or texture combinations.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 13, 2015, 02:57:56 PM
At least now on the terrain after you "build", when you reopen the terrain you see your spawn points. I had to exit then reopen after I ran the build for alpha 84 to see the tiny arrow.
If I place a spawnentry point in the water, does it automatically limit it to PT to use that spawn? And If I give one elevation, say 10,000ft, does that automatically limit it to aircraft? What is the limit on maximum numbers of spawn from a field?
No. Remember, the Object Type drop-down menu.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 13, 2015, 04:07:45 PM
I can spawn a fighter elsewhere on the island but, the y setting seems to have no effect. Even with the arrow now red floating at 10,000ft in the editor. When I use that spawn offline, the fighter spawns on the ground. I used object entpnt and description Ftr Entry. Guess there needs to be something like "airentpnt". Interesting ramification for creating alternate take off strips at some distance from the main field.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 13, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
I assume you have unchecked set to terrain alt?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 13, 2015, 06:19:29 PM
Yes because I thought that is how it would work. I remembered the problem getting the GV objects up out of the sand. Could not create a PT spawn, or I have not been told how to yet.
Also discovered if you mislabel an object "Tower" that is set near a vehicle spawn. You see a mirror of the airfield object at the location you placed the object if it is owned by the original airfield. The mirror of A1 labeled A1, also faced to the west which is the direction I aimed the vehicle spawn. Found and labeled the object correctly, ran a build, and the mirror airfield was gone.
As I was writing this, my mouse was very slow so I looked in my active processes list. I had exited from the terrain editor but, ahedit32.exe was still running. It may have done that because I forgot once I had minimized the running alpha instead of exiting full out when I opened the terrain editor to change something.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 16, 2015, 03:39:35 PM
When I import a height map into the TE the terrain altitudes update to match as they should. However the highlights and shadows that are playing on the terrain do not update. To test this I created a flat plateau where previously there were mountains and I could still see the shadows of the original mountains on the plateau. The new height map changes are also not reflected when I do a "make map" since that uses the highlights and shadows to create the 3D effect in the map.
Exiting and entering the TE updates the lighting, so I can work around this issue now I know about it. It caused me some head scratching for a while though as I couldn't work out why my height map changes weren't working.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 16, 2015, 03:51:48 PM
When I import a height map into the TE the terrain altitudes update to match as they should. However the highlights and shadows that are playing on the terrain do not update. To test this I created a flat plateau where previously there were mountains and I could still see the shadows of the original mountains on the plateau. The new height map changes are also not reflected when I do a "make map" since that uses the highlights and shadows to create the 3D effect in the map.
Exiting and entering the TE updates the lighting, so I can work around this issue now I know about it. It caused me some head scratching for a while though as I couldn't work out why my height map changes weren't working.
Only a build will update those.
If you don't want them during editing delete the terrshad.htz file.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 16, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
bustr is correct. The airspawns aren't working atm. They are set to ground level.
Also, he probably launched the TE and tried to abort it by clicking the close box before it completely initialized. I've found the ahedit.exe running in the background several times when I've done that.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 16, 2015, 05:43:45 PM
Alpha 85 does not like the terrain I've been learning with since alpha 83. I get the same error as trying to enter the AvA and Special Events arenas. I tried a build to no effect.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 17, 2015, 05:34:02 PM
Alpha 86 likes my terrain.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on November 18, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 22, 2015, 06:08:26 AM
I have been placing fields into a new terrain and ran into what seems to be a bug in the TE. When I had created 34 fields I noticed that about a third of these fields were the wrong colours on the TE's CBM and had changed countries from where I had originally set them. This happened just after I set the in-game starting positions for the fields in Settings/Fields Setup. When I tried to reassign these fields' countries in the TE the changes would not stick. To get the map back to how it should be I had to edit both the oba file and the fld file in notepad.
Once I got the map back to how it should be I tested the problem by reassigning field A9 from Rook to Knight in Settings/Fields Setup. As soon as I did this field A34 also changed allegiance on the CBM to country 4 with a white icon. So I would advise terrain builders to avoid setting in-game field positions until this bug is fixed.
Edit: I just added a few more fields to the terrain. After adding each one I saved the terrain and updated the CBM to check they were displaying OK, which they were. When I was ready to stop for the day I did a "Check for Errors" and all the fields I had just added changed colour from red to either blue or white on the CBM. The text description for each field on the CBM still displays the right numbered country however. The fld file has not been updated with the new fields I have added since I last edited it. This seems to be causing a mismatch between the icon colour which uses the fld file and the text description which uses the oba file.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 22, 2015, 09:17:22 AM
I have been placing fields into a new terrain and ran into what seems to be a bug in the TE. When I had created 34 fields I noticed that about a third of these fields were the wrong colours on the TE's CBM and had changed countries from where I had originally set them. This happened just after I set the in-game starting positions for the fields in Settings/Fields Setup. When I tried to reassign these fields' countries in the TE the changes would not stick. To get the map back to how it should be I had to edit both the oba file and the fld file in notepad.
Once I got the map back to how it should be I tested the problem by reassigning field A9 from Rook to Knight in Settings/Fields Setup. As soon as I did this field A34 also changed allegiance on the CBM to country 4 with a white icon. So I would advise terrain builders to avoid setting in-game field positions until this bug is fixed.
Edit: I just added a few more fields to the terrain. After adding each one I saved the terrain and updated the CBM to check they were displaying OK, which they were. When I was ready to stop for the day I did a "Check for Errors" and all the fields I had just added changed colour from red to either blue or white on the CBM. The text description for each field on the CBM still displays the right numbered country however. The fld file has not been updated with the new fields I have added since I last edited it. This seems to be causing a mismatch between the icon colour which uses the fld file and the text description which uses the oba file.
Btw it may very well be that adding fields makes the field display incorrect. Normally we don't set field ownership until all fields are placed. I'll try to duplicate your situation. Also sounds like a right click on the map to set field / zone would be use full.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 24, 2015, 02:51:55 PM
Now I know what updates on the map and what doesn't each time I create a field the information on the TE map is a handy error check. It is nice to be able to see at a glance that there is a field with the wrong zone or two fields with the same number. However I think that anyone new to the TE will find it confusing that not everything on the map updates at the same time when you add a field, with the text and icon colours giving conflicting info. A map update button would be a worthwhile improvement.
I'm still not sure why the TE reassigned the zone values I had set for my fields to match the map icon colours, it has not done it since but then I have been updating the fld file manually.
I was doing some offline testing in a Storch and noticed an odd problem. One of my 2 mile square V fields is rotated 180 degrees. Whenever I up here using the west spawn I almost immediately get a "you have crashed" message and am dumped back to the tower. The other two spawns work OK and the same east spawn on an unrotated 2 mile V field works OK too. This is using the European summer terrain set.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 24, 2015, 03:15:24 PM
Now I know what updates on the map and what doesn't each time I create a field the information on the TE map is a handy error check. It is nice to be able to see at a glance that there is a field with the wrong zone or two fields with the same number. However I think that anyone new to the TE will find it confusing that not everything on the map updates at the same time when you add a field, with the text and icon colours giving conflicting info. A map update button would be a worthwhile improvement.
I'm still not sure why the TE reassigned the zone values I had set for my fields to match the map icon colours, it has not done it since but then I have been updating the fld file manually.
I was doing some offline testing in a Storch and noticed an odd problem. One of my 2 mile square V fields is rotated 180 degrees. Whenever I up here using the west spawn I almost immediately get a "you have crashed" message and am dumped back to the tower. The other two spawns work OK and the same east spawn on an unrotated 2 mile V field works OK too. This is using the European summer terrain set.
I'll need the terrain to find that issue, I made a change to a similar occurrence in one of the last few releases.
Also has anyone checked air spawns in this release?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on November 24, 2015, 03:23:18 PM
Yes, airspawns are working
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 24, 2015, 04:22:22 PM
I have uploaded the current res and source files to the ftp server. They are in the greebo/bearpit folder and the rotated field with the dodgy west spawn is V100.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 25, 2015, 09:41:32 AM
I have uploaded the current res and source files to the ftp server. They are in the greebo/bearpit folder and the rotated field with the dodgy west spawn is V100.
Launching west from v100 works for me?
Just double checking that you are running the current beta release?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 25, 2015, 11:42:41 AM
I'm not sure what is going on then, I am using the latest patch. Every time I launch a Storch from the west spawn of a reversed 2-mile V field the game drops the plane to the ground but within a few seconds it takes me back to the tower with a "you have crashed" message. I have tried this with several fields.
Rotating V fields isn't something I am intending to do anyway, apart from anything else it looks a bit odd having upside-down Panther icons on the game CBM.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on November 25, 2015, 11:48:38 AM
I'm not sure what is going on then, I am using the latest patch. Every time I launch a Storch from the west spawn of a reversed 2-mile V field the game drops the plane to the ground but within a few seconds it takes me back to the tower with a "you have crashed" message. I have tried this with several fields.
Rotating V fields isn't something I am intending to do anyway, apart from anything else it looks a bit odd having upside-down Panther icons on the game CBM.
I didn't build the terrain,I assume the .res file field was rotated?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 25, 2015, 12:24:34 PM
Yes I checked it in-game just before I uploaded the terrain. Also the SP would have been east if the field was unrotated and V100's panther icon should be upside-down.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 25, 2015, 04:53:37 PM
Also has anyone checked air spawns in this release?
HiTech
Red arrow fighter and yellow arrow bomber airspawns both work. Don't see anything that looks like a PT entry point object.
Did an entry point for a soft gun outside of the small airfield single tile and got an aplaha.exe error when trying to choose manned guns in the hanger. This terrain will never be for online use. Is there a programmatically introduced exclusion or just an HTC MA rule to not add additional manned guns other than shore batteries to the terrains?
I was hoping to add a 37mm on the mesa I placed a GV spawn for practicing with mobile flack against drones. Would be nice to set an 88 on the tank firing range line which would also allow for setting an 88 beyond 2.5k from the circling drones.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 25, 2015, 09:42:02 PM
Once I laid down a soft gun object with a soft gun tag I had my active 37mm, 17lb and 88mm gun objects selectable from the hanger. Now I can shoot at drones passing over at realistic short distances similar to an airfield attack.
What is the object name for the PT spawn object? When I tried SHIP I got a CV ICON instead of a PT spawn.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on November 26, 2015, 01:41:44 AM
The object name for any spawn point is entpnt, just set the Object Type to Boat Entry for a PT spawn. If you are placing more than one SP from any field set the SPs' ID tags to a different number for each, so 0 for the first, 1 for the second and so on. The 0-tagged SP will appear as the "H" button in the game. Also rotate the arrow on each SP to match its direction from the host field.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on November 28, 2015, 03:48:34 PM
Greebo and Easycore, Thank you for validating my fiascos and the lessons learned. I will send anyone who asks me about terrains to you guys.
I have not been able to blow any thing up recently other than by trying to turn guns not programed for setting on the ground as man able gun positions on my mesa. The game alpha.exe errors when I tried going into the hanger until I deleted all of those objects.
Guess I cannot place the auto ack quad 20mm down as a man able object or the Naval quad 40mm and single 20mm on dry land. Suppose the 5inch is out the question also.....
PT spawns work for me now and are purple arrows in the TE. Looks like if I only have one, no matter what direction I rotate the arrow, the default spawn button will be north.
I believe I've gotten the hang of this thing using only it's native tools. I'll leave the gray scale elevation files and geo survey files for the experts. Everything else seems to work as you get the hang of the program's rationale.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 02, 2015, 03:21:12 PM
My apologies to everyone who so kindly put up with my stupid questions first. Especially you Hitech.
Not knowing how exposed the TE objects are, I succeeded in permanently deleting the group objects for task groups, convoys, trains and supply tugs. I did this back when we were asked to create that single island and use those party colored tiles to paint the island. From that point forward I only updated by logging into the online alpha arenas.
My recent full install of alpha 87 gave me a new copy of the TE and those group objects were again available. And my terrain building efforts started working per the wiki.
The ability to delete those objects might be considered an operational oversight, even a minor bug. You might want to lock them from the ability to delete them.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 03, 2015, 01:53:16 AM
My apologies to everyone who so kindly put up with my stupid questions first. Especially you Hitech.
Not knowing how exposed the TE objects are, I succeeded in permanently deleting the group objects for task groups, convoys, trains and supply tugs. I did this back when we were asked to create that single island and use those party colored tiles to paint the island. From that point forward I only updated by logging into the online alpha arenas.
My recent full install of alpha 87 gave me a new copy of the TE and those group objects were again available. And my terrain building efforts started working per the wiki.
The ability to delete those objects might be considered an operational oversight, even a minor bug. You might want to lock them from the ability to delete them.
Are there instructions how to use the TE for us newbies, on Wiki? :pray
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 12:18:40 PM
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
Not a good day to be a battle ship offline.
Now for shore batteries, PT spawns, and 1000ft torpedo bomber spawns. I hope setting a default patrol route from the TE will be enabled soon. I can set it offline in the terrain. Tested the B29 at 1500 feet air spawned over the water and it lost only 200 feet. Smaller bombers even gained 200ft. The tanker's Hogan's Alley range shows an interesting visual problem. Tanks blend into the trees, shadows and factory building hiding spots so you have trouble making them out until about 600 yards. Spawn camping will be interesting.
The haze does not allow the offline target to show up until about 10,000yds but, barely. I did not see the other task force until the ships had cleared 10,000yds. Guess we won't have any epic 20,000yd battle ship fights.
For a time I misunderstood the tool to enable planes and other rides at fields was also the tool to assign fields to countries. Rather confusing multi purpose GUI. Simple once you discover the functions it controls.
Now for shore batteries, PT spawns, and 1000ft torpedo bomber spawns. I hope setting a default patrol route from the TE will be enabled soon. I can set it offline in the terrain. Tested the B29 at 1500 feet air spawned over the water and it lost only 200 feet. Smaller bombers even gained 200ft. The tanker's Hogan's Alley range shows an interesting visual problem. Tanks blend into the trees, shadows and factory building hiding spots so you have trouble making them out until about 600 yards. Spawn camping will be interesting.
The haze does not allow the offline target to show up until about 10,000yds but, barely. I did not see the other task force until the ships had cleared 10,000yds. Guess we won't have any epic 20,000yd battle ship fights.
For a time I misunderstood the tool to enable planes and other rides at fields was also the tool to assign fields to countries. Rather confusing multi purpose GUI. Simple once you discover the functions it controls.
Last I check ( 1 min ago) setting way points in the TE works. Simply click add point after slecting A task group, then drag the line with your mouse. Add more if desired. Click submit when finshed.
For vis range is simply a host setting.
I have no idea how "Field Setup" would be confusing. It is also almost an exact duplicate of the in game version.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 03:38:55 PM
I thought it had something to do with selecting fields only from a given country and left it alone early on. I got lucky having my tiny map window open today and noticed the color of fields changed in response to the tool. Otherwise when I laid down P2 and kept zone 1 in the properties GUI, it didn't show up after the build on my zone 1 country 1 island as a bishop port offline. It showed up as a rook port and CV. And the CV task group was no where to be found until I changed countries as expected. But, in the TE, in the properties for all of the objects related to that port, their zone was zone 1. And I even have an HQ for zone 1.
So that left me with, I broke something by accident again deleting or, push buttons to understand how the tools work.
I will open my terrain once more and follow your instructions to the letter.
I was doing what you describe to add waypoints right up to the last build I ran today. Not once did any task group show up in the tool's window for me to select to add waypoints.
Watch it will work this time....... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 04:19:19 PM
This was the first time I've opened the TE and the two TG were available in the Task Group tool to add way points for.
If your waypoint receives the GUI warning about touching land, the GUI then goes away and your a left with a white box where it was. Then you are unable to gain access to the work space even if you use the menu bar to reopen the terrain file. You have to exit out and restart the TE.
I hit save after anything I add, delete, change, or move around. I even hit build then reopen the terrain file manually out of paranoia. The two task groups on my map had never been available until just now when I opened the TE.
There is no "haze" vis range setting so I will go with the Fog settings. My task groups are now happily steaming along the paths I set for them in the TE.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 03, 2015, 04:23:56 PM
Also if your TG is created to close to land you will always get the To close to land message.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 03, 2015, 04:25:32 PM
Boy did I learn that lesson the hard way. Which schooled me to not want that GUI message.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 05, 2015, 04:21:16 PM
1. - I cannot add the points for a road, is it me or is that enabled.
2. - Is there a way to target individual trees and remove them from the terrain?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 05, 2015, 07:42:33 PM
1. Paths are enabled in the TE, not in-game.
2. If a terrain tile, there are several Alpha posts/threads about creating new tiles and textures.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 06, 2015, 01:22:13 PM
To get my first and last point I have tried everything I read and see from the paths tab work area. Unless there is a restriction on exactly where I can put down the endpoints for a path. I want a generic road, not a convoy road or train track. As for trees, can I zoom down onto the terrain, locate a tree (x,y,z), then remove only that tree from my now "build" terrain?
It would be nice to have a tree\bush deletion tool that works on the trees in the default painting tiles for a few places you discover a bad tree after running around offline in a GV.
I ended up deleting a field, painting only sand, putting the field back down, and being very conservative about painting terrain near it the second time around. My answer to goofing and placing trees right up to the end of a runway was sand. Didn't feel like redoing the air field object area. Unless I place down sand or rock, some trees from a previous pass stay put when I paint over the area to try and remove them. Occasionally even when I use sand or rock.
I've also found the level terrain around square objects for field, strat, and town type objects at elevations higher than laying them on the ocean, is not efficient to get rid of the blue gap all the time. It is great for lowering the terrain in those grid squares. Use it too many times and you create the blue gap because of the land outside of that square being higher angling up at the object edges. Manually setting the alt in the "y" within 1-2 feet of the highest point bordering the tile is more efficient. Even when you flatten the squares and make sure say 1000yds past the grid line the elevation is the same as inside of it, there is a 1-3 foot variation at ground level in tiny bumps all over the place. Running the mouse over the area and watching the elevation readout shows this.
I've neglected to test the smoothing tool with ".0000 ft" increments. It only shows default values in whole numbers to the left of the decimal.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 07, 2015, 08:31:27 AM
There is no way to remove a single tree, nor can I think of any way to do so .
Are you sure the flat to object is not working? Or did you change an elevation after the flaten. And also after the build is it still showing the same?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 07, 2015, 02:44:14 PM
After making sure I leveled the terrain in a single square to 2000ft. I made sure for half a square around it, it was 2000ft. Then I placed the town down leaving set to terrain alt checked. I would save then run the build. When I looked at it afterward, the blue gap was there. Each time running the level around square objects, it mostly lowered the square under the town versus leveling the plates on each side of the object border. This made it worse.
So I deleted the town object, re-leveled the ground to 2000ft. Placed the town down instead by shooting for an elevation between 1998-2000 based on the micro elevation differences the brush showed me holding it over random places. After saving and running the build, in the oba file the town shows it's at 2019ft elevation, go figure. The seams tightened up, and when I looked at the seams afterward they stayed tight. I had to do this for an HQ I set down on level sand set to 10ft when I took a very close look. Initially I set it down with terrain alt checked. Now in the oba file it shows the HQ at 267ft while the sand around it is 10ft and I put in 9ft for "y".
You can't just give us a chain saw utility....... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 07, 2015, 03:05:04 PM
" set to terrain alt checked." Should NOT be set on a square object. And I assume you made the town object a group master?
Also you should never have to make the terrain level. the System sets the terrain alt to the object.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 07, 2015, 03:44:06 PM
I make them group masters and no, I thought I had to prep the space. I have seen first hand setting the elevation manually is the way to go. Saves me a lot of time now......
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 10, 2015, 02:26:01 PM
My observations and suggestions to terrain builders:
For all intents and purposes, the resolution of everything in the new terrain engine is at 660', or 201 meters. This affects elevation, water and ground texture mapping.
A square of 660' in the terrain is made of two right triangles with their mutual hypotenuse running from NW to SE. This impacts ridgelines to a minor degree, but the biggest impact is on the placement of water and shorelines. So long as these factors are kept in mind, a 1320' wide channel can be drawn either NS or EW. A very narrow channel may be drawn from NW to SE but drawing a narrow channel from the NE to the SW is problematic and probably to be avoided. Fortunately, the new rivers under development should solve most if not all of these problems.
The resolution for ground textures match the 660' resolution, meaning a 660' square is the smallest bit of a texture you can draw, and they will bleed-blend into some of the surrounding 330' spaces.
As previously mentioned, the tiles in each Atlas are currently drawn in sequence, meaning there can be a band of every terrain type between adjoining textures. This can be mitigated within texture sets. See jpg's.
If placing textures Atlas 0 Type 0 next to Atlas 0 Type 15, there is normally 15 intervening bands of texture crowded into a 330' border, but if the texture in Atlas 1 Type 16 (currently farm) is neutral to all or most of the textures in Atlas 0, then any intervening bands can disappear. By neutral, I mean reasonably bare grassland for example.
When a 660' band of Atlas 1 Type 16 is placed between Atlas 0 Type 0 and Atlas 0 Type 15, the only band will be for the Atlas 1 Type 16 and if it's neutral, it will blend in with both Atlas 0 textures without the 15 intervening borders.
This works in reverse as well. If Atlas 0 Type 0 (currently beach sand) is neutral, it can be used to blend between two Atlas 1 types. Again, see the jpg examples.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on December 10, 2015, 03:19:47 PM
As previously mentioned, the tiles in each Atlas are currently drawn in sequence, meaning there can be a band of every terrain type between adjoining textures.
Anyone know why it does this? Why doesn't it just blend between texture 0 and texture 15 without going through the other intervening 13? When satellite based land cover datasets are used to select terrain texture it's going to guarantee this banding will occur.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 10, 2015, 03:50:33 PM
Since I'm taking the default dimensions for creating the CB map file, and I only have one small island about 4 x 9 miles. Is there a way to make the map so the single island shows up huge with a smaller amount of ocean? Otherwise the icons are so large you have to use zoom to see a GV base on the north end of the island which is covered up by the airfield icon. Or are the available resolutions only related to the amount of pixel detail the bitmap will have on it?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 10, 2015, 04:11:06 PM
Since I'm taking the default dimensions for creating the CB map file, and I only have one small island about 4 x 9 miles. Is there a way to make the map so the single island shows up huge with a smaller amount of ocean? Otherwise the icons are so large you have to use zoom to see a GV base on the north end of the island which is covered up by the airfield icon. Or are the available resolutions only related to the amount of pixel detail the bitmap will have on it?
Terrian settings / map size.
IF you wish smaller the 64 edit the mdm file directly, but stay a power of 2 so you could go 32 or 16
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 10, 2015, 05:54:26 PM
Will give it a shot.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 17, 2015, 05:36:19 PM
I understand the var file in the chconfig folder for offline settings differences to the environment. The objects time and bomb pounds file with the dod extension. Will that always have to be manually loaded from the objects arena setup offline each time you open a terrain you made those changes to? Or, do I need to move it to the same location under chconfig from ah3terr that the var file is located for the given terrain?
If this last is not the case and it will always be a manual load from ah3terr. Any chance of changing it to work like the var file?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 18, 2015, 08:44:07 AM
I understand the var file in the chconfig folder for offline settings differences to the environment. The objects time and bomb pounds file with the dod extension. Will that always have to be manually loaded from the objects arena setup offline each time you open a terrain you made those changes to? Or, do I need to move it to the same location under chconfig from ah3terr that the var file is located for the given terrain?
If this last is not the case and it will always be a manual load from ah3terr. Any chance of changing it to work like the var file?
It has to be loaded every time.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 18, 2015, 12:24:36 PM
Ok.....
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 18, 2015, 01:35:48 PM
So the auto guns and manned guns are destroyable by an AP round from the Flack36 88mm. Right now all of the tanks I've set on my ranges and in the two Hogan's Alleys equal the stripped shells the Army and Marines set out on ranges. When you hit them with AP, you get a nice feed back hit explosion. If I can tag them as a gun and give them their equivalent percentage of a 1000lb bomb damage from the game, that might be a tad bit more useful to a new player.
1. - From the objects time down and 1000lb bomb setting. What would be a bomb setting to equal say killing the following: wirble\osti M3\M16\M8 M4 Firefly Panzer Panther TigerI TigerII T34 1943 T34 85
2. - Can anyone tell me the guns these equate to in the game? Yes a few are obvious, I'm being thorough.
Auto Gun Gun Bat Soft Gun Bat Armor Hard Auto Gun Armored Auto Gun Hard Gun Bat
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 18, 2015, 04:38:07 PM
Something weird has happened with the TE map generator in patch 88. The map on the left from patch 87 is the same map as the map from patch 88. Perhaps I should try re-downloading the alpha from scratch, maybe my install has got corrupted somewhere down the line.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 18, 2015, 05:01:46 PM
I duplicated the issue greebo.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 20, 2015, 08:36:21 PM
Patch 88 - Object Editor
When using the OE to export to ac3d, the OE expects the folder "export" to already exist and won't create a new one. The export will fail for lack of the export folder.
If the user creates a new "export" folder, then the follow on exports succeed. I'm in the habit of renaming the "export" folder after each export to keep all the files together. I actually wish a new folder would be created inside the "export" folder for each object exported.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 21, 2015, 04:46:27 PM
I want to verify that Speedtree TREES/tree species.srt objects be available later for building square tile objects?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 21, 2015, 04:56:56 PM
I want to verify that Speedtree TREES/tree species.srt objects be available later for building square tile objects?
I can't seem to find that object, what terrset is it in?
The SPACE in the name has me confused.
HiTEch
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 21, 2015, 05:05:12 PM
For the Object Editor:
Sorry, all the TREES/ have the tree name followed by the .srt extension. They show in the OE but none of them show in the TE anymore, not that I'd want to use them there.
If you build an airfield or town, you will want to use the speedtree trees instead of building one.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 21, 2015, 05:11:11 PM
They are only for use on square tiles.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 21, 2015, 05:28:31 PM
:o Sorry, I didn't scroll down far enough when I had .til open. At the time I thought they started with CITY. I'm all over the place with the OE today and yesterday.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 22, 2015, 12:28:14 PM
Clutter def file
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 29, 2015, 04:02:03 AM
The new flak base does not appear in the TE object list unless I list all objects.
Am I right to assume the flak base should be set up as a V base (object properties = 1) for MA use? Are there any other rules/guidelines concerning its MA use?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 29, 2015, 10:03:08 AM
The new flak base does not appear in the TE object list unless I list all objects.
Am I right to assume the flak base should be set up as a V base (object properties = 1) for MA use? Are there any other rules/guidelines concerning its MA use?
Ill add it to the list of TE objects.
Also to get the Flack Base ICON put a 4 in the Object Data field.
0 is Airfield 1 is Vehicle Field 2 is Port 3 is Depo (no longer used) 4 is Flack Base
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 30, 2015, 09:55:59 AM
I put a flak base in a test terrain, set it to 4 and got a target icon for it on the TE map. However my field is described as "A9" on the map, shouldn't it be "F9"?
Also I then went to Settings/Fields Setup and hit the "Standard" button to let the TE configure the normal plane and vehicle assignments for the various types of fields. For the flak base it assigned everything bar the PT boat and the WW1 planes, as it would with an airfield. My assumption has been that the flak base is basically a V field with lots of AA, since the runway is too small for bombers. So are the "A" map designation and default plane set assignments bugs or is my assumption wrong and this field is actually intended to be an MA airbase?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2015, 01:03:10 PM
I put a flak base in a test terrain, set it to 4 and got a target icon for it on the TE map. However my field is described as "A9" on the map, shouldn't it be "F9"?
Also I then went to Settings/Fields Setup and hit the "Standard" button to let the TE configure the normal plane and vehicle assignments for the various types of fields. For the flak base it assigned everything bar the PT boat and the WW1 planes, as it would with an airfield. My assumption has been that the flak base is basically a V field with lots of AA, since the runway is too small for bombers. So are the "A" map designation and default plane set assignments bugs or is my assumption wrong and this field is actually intended to be an MA airbase?
Havn't written the F part
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 30, 2015, 01:49:41 PM
So it is essentially a V base as far as what can spawn there and in terms of how it can be placed in an MA terrain? Same minimum spacing rule as a V base?
The reason I keep asking this is that I intend making alterations to the base and strat layout of my MA terrains in order to incorporate flak bases. In the past I have come to regret doing days of work in the TE on the basis of my false assumptions.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2015, 01:55:27 PM
So it is essentially a V base as far as what can spawn there and in terms of how it can be placed in an MA terrain? Same minimum spacing rule as a V base?
The reason I keep asking this is that I intend making alterations to the base and strat layout of my MA terrains in order to incorporate flak bases. In the past I have come to regret doing days of work in the TE on the basis of my false assumptions.
Depends how we set it up.
My thinking was only a Stork will be able to spawn. And using them near the city and Hq. And hence they would be set uncapturable and do not need to flow the spacing rules.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 30, 2015, 02:40:48 PM
Putting them next to strats was my thinking as well. Having no GVs able to spawn there definitely affects how I will use them however. For instance I was going to replace the tank town V bases in CraterMA with flak bases but what I'll probably do now is just put an extra flak base per side there near to the V bases.
I notice there is a map room and flag on the base so how about making its use in the MA flexible? So if the flak base object data is set to 2 and to field owned by the map designer it will be treated as a normal V base by the game, allowing GVs to spawn and with a tank icon on the map. However if the designer sets it to 4 it would have no spawning and a target icon. Effectively you get an extra V field type for nothing.
I think it would be useful if the flak base had a radar added to give the strat it is sitting next to some coverage.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2015, 03:03:15 PM
Putting them next to strats was my thinking as well. Having no GVs able to spawn there definitely affects how I will use them however. For instance I was going to replace the tank town V bases in CraterMA with flak bases but what I'll probably do now is just put an extra flak base per side there near to the V bases.
I notice there is a map room and flag on the base so how about making its use in the MA flexible? So if the flak base object data is set to 2 and to field owned by the map designer it will be treated as a normal V base by the game, allowing GVs to spawn and with a tank icon on the map. However if the designer sets it to 4 it would have no spawning and a target icon. Effectively you get an extra V field type for nothing.
I think it would be useful if the flak base had a radar added to give the strat it is sitting next to some coverage.
That's how it already would work. But since no v hangar they could not be disabled like V bases and could hence be very difficult to capture.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 30, 2015, 04:13:56 PM
OK I can see how that would be a problem.
One last thing, to make the flak bases uncapturable do I set them to country owned, or to field owned and use the field capture order?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 30, 2015, 05:15:45 PM
Since it was brought up, I wonder if we can have your official requirements for MA fields? I'll frame the question in the form of a potential TE Manual section on the subject.
Field Locations: Airfields - Airfields should be no closer then 3/4 sector, or about 13 miles apart, Airfields should be no further then 25 miles apart.
Vehicle Bases - Vehicle Bases should be at least 8 miles from airfields and Ports and at least 3 miles from another Vehicle base.
Flak Bases - The same rule for Vehicle Bases apply.
Ports - Ports should be no closer then 8 miles to the nearest vehicle base and between 13 and 25 miles to the nearest Airfield.
Also, what's the status for uncapturable fields now?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 30, 2015, 05:19:40 PM
Thanks, that is what I figured but wanted to be sure. I will stop bugging you about it now.
You could never bug me, your not coad.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 30, 2015, 09:20:10 PM
Doh! Rounded up from 18.75 - fixed.
Field Locations: Airfields - Airfields should be no closer then 3/4 sector, or about 19 miles apart, Airfields should be no further then 25 miles apart.
Vehicle Bases - Vehicle Bases should be at least 8 miles from airfields and Ports and at least 3 miles from another Vehicle base.
Flak Bases - The same rule for Vehicle Bases apply.
Ports - Ports should be no closer then 8 miles to the nearest vehicle base and between 19 and 25 miles to the nearest Airfield.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on December 31, 2015, 02:10:07 AM
Some more MA spacing stuff.
Strat - Strat facilities (HQ, city, factories) should be at least 8 miles from airfields and at least 3 miles from a Vehicle base.
Spawn points - Spawn points from other bases should be at least 1.75 miles from the edge of the nearest square tile object (bases, towns, strats etc. but not tank town). This is to ensure that no one spawning there can come immediately under fire from an AA gun. (This minimum distance may also need to be made bigger for game play reasons). Land or sea spawn points should be placed so they are entirely on land or water respectively. (Tricky at the moment as the current TE does not show the spawn circle).
No two square tile objects may be placed within the same red 4 mile square in the TE.
Tank town should be placed at least one mile from the nearest base (i.e. not touching).
All capturable bases should have a capture path. Either a nearby airfield or V base, spawn points into the base, or access for a CV group.
There may also be rules regarding spacing of the new supply routes when that gets done.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2015, 01:16:38 PM
I cannot place down path segments on my terrain no matter how religiously I follow the instructions on the paths tab. Is there a first condition of the path's ground area to be met, like not having any trees and clutter painted on which can act as first time detected straight line obstacles to the path coding function?
I'm wondering this since we don't have a chainsawBot to remove trees, and I can't introduce a road to save my virtual kester.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on December 31, 2015, 01:34:20 PM
Button, Add Path.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2015, 01:47:57 PM
I wouldn't be pestering this audience if that worked. But, I will go back for the umpteenth time and try it again...... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2015, 02:06:09 PM
I've done both the insert point button and the ctrl R-click, then the add path button. Even add point at the end of the path before hitting "Add Path". And the little window still pops up telling me I didn't add the first point. My TE while in the Paths tab is not detecting I have added anything onto the terrain. If I leave show all paths checked, I don't get a red cross on the terrain when I click for the first point attempt.
What can you not add a path onto? Anywhere on a field tile or where trees block the initial segment? Or once everything is "build" you can run a path across anything "land"? Should I be able to run a path down the center of a runway or are some objects blocked?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on December 31, 2015, 02:17:56 PM
I thought it was click Add Path first, then click on the map where you want the first point (at which point you actually get two path points). You shift click the second point and move it to where you want to go. You then do the Ctrl-right click to continue to add points (or whatever the shortcut is, I don't exactly remember). (At some point you have to edit the path properties to change it to a river or railroad if that's what you want).
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on December 31, 2015, 02:23:03 PM
Also the paths will not show in game bustr.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2015, 03:12:29 PM
I was trying to add a basic road that does nothing but connect two points to gain experience using the tool. I wanted a road that looked like one of the Sfeild roads next to the tower had an extension that ran to the entry point on one of the metal bridges in the town I laid down a mile away.
I tried to follow all of the instructions from the tools in the Paths tab and nothing works for me.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 03, 2016, 09:09:49 AM
There is a minor graphical glitch when creating a field capture order. When I use the mouse to drag the cursor between two fields the yellow arrow appears about a sector to the right of where it should. As soon as I release the mouse button the arrow snaps into the correct position.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 03, 2016, 11:09:42 AM
There is a minor graphical glitch when creating a field capture order. When I use the mouse to drag the cursor between two fields the yellow arrow appears about a sector to the right of where it should. As soon as I release the mouse button the arrow snaps into the correct position.
I noticed that too but since I don't usually use that tool, I thought it was weird, but normal.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 04, 2016, 12:12:16 AM
I know this isn't a bug, so I guess it's a wish. I'd like to see ctrl+S for the Save menu shortcut in the TE. It's already in the OE.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 04, 2016, 06:02:02 AM
I have added some flak bases to CraterMA and uploaded the latest files to the FTP server. There are now pairs of flak bases about 3 miles to either side of each HQ and more pairs about 4 miles to either side of each city (centre to centre). There are also three flak bases, one for each country, in the central tank town area.
I could get better coverage for the HQs if I moved the flak bases in from 3 miles apart to about 2 miles. So long as I made sure they were not in the same 4 mile square would there be any problem about doing this? As neither the HQ or flak bases are capturable there can't be any spawn conflict from AA with them being that close. I was wondering though if there might be some other issue about setting bases and strats close together, perhaps some sort of resupply conflict.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 04, 2016, 08:28:11 AM
2 miles should work.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 04, 2016, 02:41:28 PM
:pray Related.
Do you see any issues with rail paths? IIRC, I was once told there needed to be 3 miles clear distance for them because of the flak guns?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 05, 2016, 09:20:35 AM
To my eyes the big rectangular blocks of 100 clouds I have placed in my map look too obviously artificial from a distance. So I was thinking of splitting each of these up into say five closely spaced groups each of 20 clouds, or ten of 10. My question is if a player sees 100 clouds nearby grouped into five or ten fronts will this have any impact on his frame rates compared to seeing the same number of clouds but grouped into just one front?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 05, 2016, 09:45:03 AM
To my eyes the big rectangular blocks of 100 clouds I have placed in my map look too obviously artificial from a distance. So I was thinking of splitting each of these up into say five closely spaced groups each of 20 clouds, or ten of 10. My question is if a player sees 100 clouds nearby grouped into five or ten fronts will this have any impact on his frame rates compared to seeing the same number of clouds but grouped into just one front?
I the FPS will be the same in each case. FPS will depend on how many are in view and how many close.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: captain1ma on January 05, 2016, 07:53:05 PM
To my eyes the big rectangular blocks of 100 clouds I have placed in my map look too obviously artificial from a distance. So I was thinking of splitting each of these up into say five closely spaced groups each of 20 clouds, or ten of 10. My question is if a player sees 100 clouds nearby grouped into five or ten fronts will this have any impact on his frame rates compared to seeing the same number of clouds but grouped into just one front?
I was running them in the AVA a big line of them. they worked once, and then didn't. I didn't notice an hits on my framerates because of them. ive been spending time in the alpha ava trying to get missions and clouds to work. its always something though!
I had build a simple mission and then all of a sudden it stopped working. same with the clouds. but it could be i'm in the wrong place before they come out.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 06, 2016, 02:35:26 AM
A tip HT gave me when using the cloud editor is to use minus numbers in the "First Create HR:" box. This sets the time that cloud bank is first created to a point before you enter the terrain. That way you do not have to wait for your cloud systems to generate.
I've had no problem with frame rates and clouds either, but then I have a decent PC which runs the alpha at over 80 fps. It is hard for me to know how many clouds to include. I want them to look good but I don't know how much they will affect those players running on marginal systems.
A few things I have found out that may help other terrain builders:
For MA terrains I try to set all the cloud systems to have the same lifetime, exactly one hour in my case. That way the maximum cloud count stays the same however long the terrain runs.
If you put a number of cloud fronts together and you want them to stay together for more than one front life time they will all need to have the same number of rows and clouds per row. This is because even if they are all set to the same speed a front with more clouds takes a little longer to generate on each cycle and so will be a little further away from a smaller front than last time. Over subsequent cycles the group will gradually break up. Again this is mainly an issue for MA terrains.
The density of cloud types in the editor from lightest to heaviest goes something like: 0,1,3,7,6,5,2,9,8,4. So using 0 and 1 in a cloud bank will give lightly scattered puffs of cloud while 8 and 4 will give a heavy overcast. There is about twice as much of the max type of cloud in a bank as the min type.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 09, 2016, 06:21:09 PM
The OE Edit Tree Utility
Admittedly, I always have a lot of programs running at the same time so if anything can go wrong, it will.
These are both for laf1x1m. I'd been working awhile documenting the hierarchy in GIMP when things got weird. In the first jpg, an Object Ob switched over to become a group. In the second, I was getting different and unexpected dialog boxes. I hope the lines showing which buttons resulted in which dialog are the actual paths I took and make sense. One time I clicked Edit Face flags iirc and got one, a dialog similar to a Group dialog, then again later, I got the second which I take as the correct one. This may not be exactly how it happened, but it's close.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 13, 2016, 10:51:08 PM
TE - Beta p00
I was looking for a new bridge in the full objects list :cry but playing around as I went.
Anyway, I selected the italianstonepine and as soon as I clicked Apply or OK, the TE crashed. At first, I thought that made sense since I had Euro Summer set so I changed to Mediterranean but the same thing happened.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 14, 2016, 01:10:19 PM
I tested the cloud block again with my GTX 760 that floats over TT on NDilses online. With my old AMD6770 128bit bus 1G GDDR5. In the center of the block my FPS was 20-27. With my new 760 256bit 2G GDDR5 40-52. Cloud density is going to have an effect on players with PC that meet the minimum to medium requirements to play the game.
Also I suspect terrains that have a density of highlands above 2k with trees and especially rock faces combined with clouds will be another FPS hit for the same group of players. I paired back the tall oak density on the 2k and higher on my offline terrain which gave me back some FPS to my 760. The complex rock structures are what they are and why I repainted about 30% with a grey rock and vegetation tile to create a wider transition to bare rock. Offshore in one of the CV looking at the island from the officers club catwalk. My FPS improved from locked at 20 to fluctuating 22-32 depending on the visual focus point at the island.
Offline on NDisles if I sit in a 37mm at A1 and pan my view at the rock wall of the nearest visible mountain. While the view is pointing at highland with vegetation 52. The moment it pans into the edge of the rack wall, 40-45 FPS until I pan the view off the rock formation. I tested sitting in a gun on a destroyer NDisles CV20. The nearest mountain is about 12-15 miles away and very low on the horizon. FPS looking at it 55-60. On my terrain the CVs are about 8 miles from the 2000ft shore cliffs with exposed rock.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 14, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback regarding clouds and FPS, I've been wondering about this since my system rarely drops below 100 fps.
Recently I have been considering whether to get rid of the cloud system I have done for CraterMA, maybe just leave an overcast layer. Apart from the FPS issue I am not too keen on how they look anyway, the square blocks of cloud look too obviously artificial and the individual clouds judder in a disconcerting way in the middle distance. The AH II clouds looked much more realistic IMO.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 14, 2016, 11:56:25 PM
Is there a secret to painting terrain around the HQ object that does not end up with trees sprouting out of the water, roads and other none tree places on that object tile?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 15, 2016, 04:11:53 AM
That sounds more like an issue with the HQ object. Do you still get the trees in the wrong places even with the treeless sand texture below the object?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 15, 2016, 10:52:19 AM
Is there a secret to painting terrain around the HQ object that does not end up with trees sprouting out of the water, roads and other none tree places on that object tile?
I assume you know if trees are on they will not refresh when you place or move an object?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 11:55:02 AM
I deleted the HQ, laid down sand to remove all trees. Turned off, then turn on trees and all gone. I use that to help correct tree mistakes. Else where I will switch between tree\clutter type tiles to remove trees while on\off the show trees to check results.
When I lay down tree terrain around the HQ there seems to be a tolerance zone. As long as I keep sand showing around the HQ tile, no tree problems. As soon as I try to edge some clutter into the HQ object zone, trees sprout up in the strangest places. And it's the same sprout pattern each time, even if I'm using the mixed sand and sparse tree tile.
I doubt anyone I give my gunnery terrain to will bother to drive around the HQ. It was something I noticed and spent some time trying to paint clutter without causing trees to sprout in the water and on the roads. I guess knowing my HQ has trees where they shouldn't be bothers me.... :O
I have not tried painting the tree\clutter into the square first I want to place the HQ in to see if this still happens. I'm finding terrain building is like having the same dream every night that you think you forgot something that you can't remember but it still bugs you the next day.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 12:12:17 PM
Just tried three things.
1. - Deleted the HQ. Painted the square with trre\clutter, placed the HQ object down. Turned on show trees and trees showed up where they shouldn't be.
2. - Deleted the HQ. Painted the square "sand", placed the HQ object down. Turned on show trees and trees showed up where they shouldn't be.
3. - Deleted the HQ. Painted the square sand and one default brush width outside of the grid square so no trees would be touching the edge of the HQ object tile. Turned on show trees and trees showed up where they shouldn't be.
The pattern the trees follow is always the same no matter which kind of trees are nearest to the HQ object tile.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 15, 2016, 01:57:06 PM
The problem I was having with the game dropping to the desktop or crashing when the overcast layer loaded seems to have gone away without me doing anything. It did it without fail this morning, but I did not try rebooting the PC then. I'll let you know if it reoccurs.
I had a look at the HQ both in the game and the TE and like Bustr says the tree layout does not match the rest of the object. It looks like a set of trees from another object has been applied by mistake.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 03:00:27 PM
Greebo, Easycor,
Do you gentlemen have some simple cloud file I can test on my terrain and learn from it how to work with clouds? I'm currently trying to see how I can effect FPS and see what is eating it and how to modify what I'm painting to gain back FPS while keeping a realistic look.
Bare rock eats FPS as does compact areas of tall trees on elevations versus flats. Clouds could possibly make me cry, or not.
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 15, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I haven't worked with the new Cloud Editor yet. Still stuck documenting terrain tile types atm.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 15, 2016, 05:44:43 PM
Do you gentlemen have some simple cloud file I can test on my terrain and learn from it how to work with clouds? I'm currently trying to see how I can effect FPS and see what is eating it and how to modify what I'm painting to gain back FPS while keeping a realistic look.
Thank you in advance.
I have attached a fairly simple weather file for you to play with. Rename it to match the name of your terrain and with an "awa" suffix then put it in your terrain's folder in the chconfig folder. (i.e. craterma.awa in chconfig/craterma).
It has a number of approximately 100-cloud sized formations moving across the map in various directions and a thin overcast layer. I kept the formations fairly small and spread out to try and avoid FPS issues for marginal PCs.
I posted some cloud editor tips in post 351 of this thread. A couple of other tips:
If you are putting both an overcast layer and cloud formations into a terrain then make the overcast layer very high, say 40K or so. This is because there is an issue where clouds disappear when looked at through an overcast layer.
Don't use the "Lock" feature in the cloud editor, it is broken.
It is often easier to copy and paste cloud formations into the awa file using Notepad and then edit or move these using the cloud editor. However don't save the file with the cloud editor and then leave it running in the background while you edit the text. Once you reopen your newly modified weather file with it, the editor can do odd things to the file. Instead save the file, shut the cloud editor down and then restart it when you have finished editing the text.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 05:52:18 PM
Opened the cloud editor and targeted my custom terrain. Set the 4 white line frame parameters V,A,W,D. Picked min and max cloud types. Set a negative number -0.02 as the start time. 1 hour duration. Kept the min\max alts and other default numbers. Ran the animation fine. Saved as an awa file, same name as my terrain.
When I startup my terrain offline, no gigantic cloud front coming in from the south. Even set time to 12 0 5000 to speed things up.
These files should be in the ah3terr folder with the following naming format?
gunnery.res gunnery.awa
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 06:01:52 PM
Greebo tried your file with both my terrain and NDilses offline. No clouds showed up on either. Some time ago you posted an awa file for AH2. I renamed it to ndisles and it ran offline when I placed it in the same directory with the ndisles.res. I'm probably doing something wrong to get it to work.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 15, 2016, 06:03:55 PM
The file gunnery.awa should be in the chconfig/gunnery folder for it to work offline. You can also put other awa files into this folder and access them in-game with the command ".sweath". So typing ".sweath test" into the radio bar would run the weather file "test.awa" in the chconfig/gunnery folder.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 15, 2016, 06:31:54 PM
DuH!!!!
Kept thinking that but accepted the editor as the last word on the correct folder.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 16, 2016, 05:10:44 PM
Greebo what terrset is that image?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 17, 2016, 12:37:10 AM
That is the Euro Summer terrset. So far it's not a problem in Med or Pac.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 17, 2016, 06:32:26 AM
Yes its the Euro summer set.
Bustr has mentioned that he adjusted the diameter of his SPs in his terrain. How is this done and is it permitted to do so for an MA terrain?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 17, 2016, 06:39:12 AM
It's VehicleSpawnRadius under Ranges in the Arena settings. We can't set it in the TE.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 17, 2016, 07:46:41 AM
Thanks Easyscor, I've never had to use that feature as I have only made MA terrains.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 17, 2016, 01:56:16 PM
Sorry, I set it to 0 in my var file so when spawning to the top of the wirbel nest, the gunnery ranges, or onto the roads in TT, it would be the same spot each time. That is why I'm trying to see if one of the free zip programs will package the files as a self extractor and place the res, var and awa files in the correct folders. Including writing a new folder chconfig\Gunnery.
Most players have no patience for reading and following written instructions much anymore...... :huh
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 17, 2016, 11:52:48 PM
TE recommendation.
When converting an AH2 terrain, I suggest that the rotation of all Group Masters be set to zero except for Ports and those should be checked for 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees. To support this, I point to blksea and blkseaw, not because I'm picking on them, but because that's where I see the problem in extreme.
I was checking something else and noticed that many of the field icons are upside down. V-bases are the easiest to spot but airfields show upside down as well so presumably some towns and maybe factories are also rotated. In all the cases I checked, the square tile object isn't rotated precisely and it opens the terrain to water along with mismatching the surrounding elevations. If the builder still wants to rotate them after the conversion, he still could.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 20, 2016, 02:56:30 PM
I decided to ask in here before I blew up all of my work by accident.
I start out painting with one terrain set, then decide I want to incorporate some clutter or rock effects from another set. I then choose that next terrain set, does it automatically convert all terrain painting I've done up to that point to the new terrain set? Or can I mix and match?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 20, 2016, 03:09:10 PM
You can not mix and match terrsets. But any terrset can be displayed on any terrain. So even after your terrain is built, a different terrest can be selected.
If you wish different ground clutter types (I.E. not trees and thing but the stuff you can turn off), you can over ride those by setting up a clutter def file.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 20, 2016, 03:31:19 PM
I wanted some additional variance in the exposed rock for cliffs and higher elevations that didn't include trees. All the 500-1000 foot faces I've climbed had almost no vegetation let alone a line of oaks growing out of the faces. The long black cracks yes. The eruo summer tile set has the mixed exposed pearl white rock with oaks in cracks and to the left the grass and blue green partially exposed rock that seems to inherit trees based on slope angle.
A rock tile in a color of gray between the two rock colors would allow for tempering those bright white cliffs more realistically. I thought one of the other terrain sets might have that.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 21, 2016, 06:59:24 PM
TE 0.02 p1 & p2
Upon Exit or Close from the TE, I get the "ahedit.exe has stopped working"
I've tried several terrains to see if it might be a terrain problem but the error message always came up.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 25, 2016, 02:46:58 PM
In regards to hand painting beaches Greebo what does this actually mean?
Quote
The maximum safe number of hand painted beach points is 256 points.
Does it mean:
A) There can only be 256 points for the total map?
or
B) Does it mean while you are actually drawing that you can only put down 256 max beach points (shift + left click) at one time. Then when you are done hit clear and you can go somewhere else and when hand painting a beach can do another max of 256 points before you have to hit clear and go paint another beach?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on January 25, 2016, 02:50:47 PM
In regards to hand painting beaches Greebo what does this actually mean?
Does it mean:
A) There can only be 256 points for the total map?
or
B) Does it mean while you are actually drawing that you can only put down 256 max beach points (shift + left click) at one time. Then when you are done hit clear and you can go somewhere else and when hand painting a beach can do another max of 256 points before you have to hit clear and go paint another beach?
B.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 25, 2016, 03:02:24 PM
Great to hear HiTech otherwise the Pacific maps were going to be ... :bhead.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 25, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
So I loaded up AH3 TE and converted one of my Pacific terrain which went rather smoothly (although it butchered the coastlines) except for this error which is the majority errors.
1) When a ran a check on errors I got "square objects touch each other." This seems to be caused by have a town in one square and the airfield in the adjacent square. Not an issue at all in AH2 but for some reason it is here. The reason the town and field are in adjacent squares is simply because on some pacific islands there is really no other choice since they are so small.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 25, 2016, 10:28:40 PM
Never find I found a thread on the subject I was looking for in regards to lakes.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 26, 2016, 02:01:28 AM
1) When a ran a check on errors I got "square objects touch each other." This seems to be caused by have a town in one square and the airfield in the adjacent square. Not an issue at all in AH2 but for some reason it is here. The reason the town and field are in adjacent squares is simply because on some pacific islands there is really no other choice since they are so small.
One reason this can be a problem on terrains is that it can cause holes that players could drop through. Even if you make both the airfield and the town the same height in properties that does not mean the rims of each object will have the same height where they touch. The TE normally adjusts the height of the terrain to blend with each object automatically but it cannot do this if there is another object of a different height touching it and this can create a vertical gap in the terrain.
On the ETO terrain set the town object's rim is 30 ft higher than its properties alt while the 1 mile square airfields are at the same alt. Most of the strat objects, TT and the 4 mile square airfield vary from 0 to +30 feet difference. The exceptions to this are the 1 mile V base, whose rim is 150 feet higher and the 2 mile V base which is 160 feet higher. It is important to bear this in mind when placing these bases in the terrain otherwise you can end up with a steep 160 foot incline around the whole periphery of the base.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 26, 2016, 06:57:05 AM
Understood Greebo but this seems an issue with the way the default AH2 were built since we did not have the same issue with the shapes in AH2. While it doesn't affect the ETO terrains it definitely causes an headaches with PTO historical terrains where at times you simply don't have a lot of land to work with.
Will have to think on how to address this drawback.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 26, 2016, 08:04:33 AM
I was was about to suggest you could create a two mile by one mile airfield/town object but that got me thinking, do square tile objects have to be square or can they also be rectangular?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 26, 2016, 08:11:21 AM
No idea, I never did any object editing / creating work back in AH2 (that was Midi) and usually just relied on the standard included shapes. Which why I was sort of surprised to see that the new standard town has issues with the standard airfields.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 26, 2016, 08:35:54 AM
Could you just get rid of the town and use a map room object for the airfield capture instead?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 26, 2016, 08:45:44 AM
Yeah talking to Midi and that is what he recommends trying.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on January 26, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
Could you just get rid of the town and use a map room object for the airfield capture instead?
We've been doing that for awhile in the AvA with no issues. In AH2, all the square tile objects are dead flat so there was no problem putting any two together. As you said, in AH3, most square tile objects are not flat.
It is possible to combine two square tile objects but you need to build them from scratch and the new rectangle must completely fit within the 4 mile red square. I think I would start with the 2x2 mile refinery object instead and modify that if an airbase and town are both needed. They can be rotated as well but use great care when rotating.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 26, 2016, 02:31:47 PM
BTW a small correction to what I wrote earlier today. The 1 mile square's V base's rim is elevated 50 feet, not 150 feet.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on January 26, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
I think I am going with just placing the map room route since that doesn't require any new objects to be created. Also this is for special events where town capture usually is not a thing. I kept town in previously because it gave more targets for designers of events to designates as tasks but between either building a new 2x2 tile object, increase already small islands to by a 1x1 square of land that didn't exist, the map room route seems best.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on January 27, 2016, 08:56:49 PM
I tried to stack four cloud fronts one on top of each other from 7000ft up to 13500ft to try and make a thick vertical column of clouds, wide at the bottom tapering to the top. I set all to generate at -0.01. Only the bottom most front generates.
It does not look like the min and max alt component will give you a vertical body between those two numbers. The front generates somewhere near the top in a fixed thickness. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on January 28, 2016, 04:18:08 AM
I suspect the following is already on the "to do" list but just in case its been overlooked. The "standard" button in fields setup does not assign the allowable rides to flak bases. It is easy enough for me to do this manually (just the Fi 156), so its no big deal for now.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 02, 2016, 09:49:28 PM
Bulldozer Tool
In the Old TE, there was a useful filter for roads and rivers that would take a line of elevations and then interpolate all elevations between the high point and the low point. I expected Elevation Brush 6, the Bulldozer tool, to do the same thing. In my tests in Beta 0.02 patch 3, it uses the average height between the two points and levels to that average.
Isn't Bulldozer supposed to work the same as the old slope filter?
I was attempting to document the Terrain tab at the time, so created a terrain with two extreme 2x2 mile x 16,000 ft. high plateau. I was unable to use the Terrain Type painting by Elevation filter so I realized it was because the cliffs were too steep. That's when I tried the various Elevation smoothing tools. I never was able to complete the demonstration for the Terrain tab tools after I realized the cliffs didn't have enough 660'^2s to make sense with those tools.
I toyed with the other Elevation tools but I didn't find a good alternative for this situation.
The original test terrain is attached as: TerrTab
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 03, 2016, 10:28:47 AM
In the Old TE, there was a useful filter for roads and rivers that would take a line of elevations and then interpolate all elevations between the high point and the low point. I expected Elevation Brush 6, the Bulldozer tool, to do the same thing. In my tests in Beta 0.02 patch 3, it uses the average height between the two points and levels to that average.
Isn't Bulldozer supposed to work the same as the old slope filter?
I was attempting to document the Terrain tab at the time, so created a terrain with two extreme 2x2 mile x 16,000 ft. high plateau. I was unable to use the Terrain Type painting by Elevation filter so I realized it was because the cliffs were too steep. That's when I tried the various Elevation smoothing tools. I never was able to complete the demonstration for the Terrain tab tools after I realized the cliffs didn't have enough 660'^2s to make sense with those tools.
I toyed with the other Elevation tools but I didn't find a good alternative for this situation.
The original test terrain is attached as: TerrTab
It was a bug, I just fixed, it now does what you would expect it to do.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 03, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on February 04, 2016, 03:08:37 AM
Not sure if this is a bug or it is supposed to be this way:
In the TE if I set latitude, longitude and date settings for my terrain and hit OK, save the terrain, exit, re-enter the TE and open the terrain settings box then this info has been reset back to default.
Assuming the time and place info I set is being applied to the terrain when I build it then this is not a major problem. However I think it would be better if whenever I click on the Terrain Settings dialog it would remember whatever I typed into it for that terrain previously so my settings will continue to be applied whenever I build the terrain.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 04, 2016, 01:24:33 PM
So far all versions of the beta terrain editor, when I exit it, some seconds after that windows throws an error. The error can be closed normally versus resorting to the task manager.
(http://s20.postimg.org/tb8cy3etp/errormsg.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 04, 2016, 01:59:21 PM
So far all versions of the beta terrain editor, when I exit it, some seconds after that windows throws an error. The error can be closed normally versus resorting to the task manager.
(http://s20.postimg.org/tb8cy3etp/errormsg.jpg)
I believe I have it fixed for this patch.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 05, 2016, 05:08:20 PM
The first thing I checked was the Bulldozer tool. I thought I'd better post my results in case it's turns out to be more of a problem then I think. I'm still working with a 2x2 mile test plateau.
If I set the brush for about a 2 mile circle and start at zero elevation moving to 16,000', it seems to work well, if slightly wider then I expected. So that suggests it will work when building an actual terrain.
However, if I start at the top, then it's not working quite as well. I ended up using a 1 mile circle for the brush as the 2 mile brush wasn't compatible with the unrealistic 2 mile x 2 mile plateau I'd built for testing. It may not be worth changing because you'd normally have a much bigger area to work with at the top but this jpg illustrates what I saw working from the top going to sea level with that ~1 mile brush.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 06, 2016, 01:04:34 PM
I tried to populate the two ports on my terrain with statics ship objects. Tagging them either Ship or Structure ended up with the same problems. They became a Task Group replacing the port Icon with a Task Group Icon. They also were active ships adding their ack fire to the port ack shooting at the drones. When I would enter the hanger, the ships with gun positions were super imposed over the port hanger offerings.
The only boats that can be added as static objects in the water at the port docks are PT and Tugs. Is there any way to null the ships so they become static objects in the port? From the port tower they were visually incredible to stare at. I had the CV, BB, CA at their respective moorings along with DE double moored and a whole squadron of PT and multiple tugs around the big ships.
Even some static Liberty ships and ammo\fuel ships in the port would look good. That big flat top and the Battle Wagon were inspiring sitting there in their new skins.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 06, 2016, 07:30:29 PM
Those are live objects you placed. In the current TE, we use
dumca dumcv dumsub
and
str2 a dumb da str13 a dumb PT Boat
It would be nice to have all 5 listed as dum$$$$ in this edition.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 08, 2016, 12:55:23 PM
Is it possible the conversion utility for AH2 terrains to AH3 sometimes mislabels objects?
Is there a utility that will pull a customizable search report of objects, field type assignment, by their common name like "Flak36" and what damage label has been assigned to them? Or is that a manual search through the dod file for the creator using Excel?
I was wondering about this with the recent mislabeled objects on CraterMA.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on February 08, 2016, 01:45:23 PM
The TE doesn't list the individual objects on a field, it just treats the field as one big entity with a single setting of "groupmaster". The settings for individual items on the field like AA guns would have been set by HTC using the object editor. If there is a bugged object on the field it will effect all the fields of that type on every terrain.
The only difference I have seen between converted objects and newly created objects is spawn points and this was more to do with how they were displayed in the TE than how they worked in the game.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 08, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
So what Hitech found was a Waffle....... :O :lol
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 09, 2016, 01:35:33 PM
Several issues for the Terrain Tab
I recommend the following changes:
1 Change the Point Buttons from 'P' to 'Ph" for high and 'Pl' for low, or some other designation. (I will probably never use any of the sliders.) 2 In the angle text boxes, I'd set both defaults to 90 degrees. This will prevent accidentally painting the whole terrain with whatever terrain type is selected. 3 Most importantly, the Apply to All Terrain button should be dimmed and unselectable until at least one of the Enable check boxes is set.
Issues causing these suggestions: When the TE first opens, or if you come back to the Terrain tab after making changes, and you click the Apply to All Terrain without changing any of the default settings, the whole terrain will be painted with whatever terrain type is selected. As there's no Undo for this, previous work since the last save will be lost.
When using the Enable Altitude Filter, if you use the Point buttons to set the Low and High point, and then click the Apply button without first setting the Enable Altitude Filter check box, the whole terrain is painted with whatever terrain type happens to be selected. I don't think either the Angle filter or the Altitude filter is causing this.
Unfortunately, the Undo command appears not to work with either of the filters, Altitude or Angle. Considering the global nature of the filters, I don't expect undo to work but this makes 'idiot proofing' for me, more important.
The default setting for the Angle range is zero to ninety degrees. I think I'd recommend changing this to ninety ninety. This way the whole terrain won't accidentally be painted if the Enable Angle Filter is set with the default values.
If I wanted to actually paint the whole terrain, with snow for instance, I could set the Altitude range from zero to thirty thousand feet, or I could set the Angle range from zero to ninety degrees.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 14, 2016, 05:41:32 PM
What are the differences between "save" and "build"?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 14, 2016, 06:45:10 PM
What are the differences between "save" and "build"?
Save , write the terrain to the disk in an editable fashion.
Build, creates a .res file that the game can read.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 15, 2016, 11:31:51 AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 15, 2016, 02:28:31 PM
Whats the official meaning for these two Menu items? (This is how I've written them up so far)
Level terrain on square objects Globally levels the terrain verts for bases, towns and factories Set All Tiles to Terrain Height Globally matches the terrain verts to bases, towns and factories
Are these primarily intended to support the Convert AH2 Terrain function? I ask because I haven't found either necessary when setting my square tiles.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 15, 2016, 03:47:07 PM
Whats the official meaning for these two Menu items? (This is how I've written them up so far)
Level terrain on square objects Globally levels the terrain verts for bases, towns and factories Set All Tiles to Terrain Height Globally matches the terrain verts to bases, towns and factories
Are these primarily intended to support the Convert AH2 Terrain function? I ask because I haven't found either necessary when setting my square tiles.
First one is if you have modified the height map around square objects it does the vertex matching to the square object just as build or edit & apply tp an object does.
2nd is really only for after an import if you wish all the square objects raised to the terrain.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 17, 2016, 02:48:16 PM
Does the terrain editor use your current graphics settings from the game such as how you set your gamma slider?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 17, 2016, 02:53:32 PM
Does the terrain editor use your current graphics settings from the game such as how you set your gamma slider?
I believe it does.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 23, 2016, 05:24:43 PM
If we get anymore tile changes, can Waffle just add in the herd of grazing little pink ponies with "Eat at Joes Crab Shack" painted on their sides? Then I can justify going nutz....... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 24, 2016, 03:04:25 PM
These two tree\rock tiles transition very well. The yellow limestone up to 4500ft in this screen shot has characteristic trees growing from seems you see in some limestone formations. Then the next tile starting about 500ft down with grey and brownish highlights increases the percentage of the same trees while doubling as an active runoff "wash cut" fill down to sea level if needed.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 24, 2016, 08:15:16 PM
So I get all the bombers out in a line on my field. Then I take a very close look at them all. They are in their damage model skin rather than the skin when you spawn. I was hoping to form two lineups together, bombers and fighters of all the WW2 aircraft in the game for photo ops to show what is in our stable. I doubt anyone outside of veterans to AH would appreciate looking at the damage modeling.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 25, 2016, 03:36:12 AM
Don't look too close, your tanks are the same way.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 25, 2016, 09:34:39 AM
So I get all the bombers out in a line on my field. Then I take a very close look at them all. They are in their damage model skin rather than the skin when you spawn. I was hoping to form two lineups together, bombers and fighters of all the WW2 aircraft in the game for photo ops to show what is in our stable. I doubt anyone outside of veterans to AH would appreciate looking at the damage modeling.
Are you looking at them in TE or in game?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 25, 2016, 10:07:16 AM
Here's a panzer4-F in offline mode. It's been all the damaged objects since the first time I tried this, years and years ago.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Ok so it is not normal for some of the tanks I've laid down on my terrain to be tracked. Here are two screen captures offline before I realized it would not be worth adjusting the elevation and pitch. When you get up close to the B29, you can see the bent damaged props along with the undamaged with them frozen in blurred motion. All props are in that state.
(http://s20.postimg.org/yzn2ou58t/bmbrdmg1.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/9i4o58nil/bmbrdmg2.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 25, 2016, 12:29:56 PM
I'll take a look why it's displaying the damage shapes.
Should be a simple fix.
1 minute later.
Yep was a simple fix.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 25, 2016, 12:55:19 PM
A little present for you bustr.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2016, 01:01:00 PM
My wife has been wondering where the flat spot on my forehead came from...... :bhead
Thank you for fixing it Hitech, now I can finish setting up my aircraft offerings photo op. And make some tanks look more realistic on hillsides. :O
I was typing while you posted Hitech. THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR.................... :aok
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 25, 2016, 01:04:33 PM
My wife has been wondering where the flat spot on my forehead came from...... :bhead
Thank you for fixing it Hitech, now I can finish setting up my aircraft offerings photo op. And make some tanks look more realistic on hillsides. :O
I was typing while you posted Hitech. THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR.................... :aok
Double checking that you saw the attachment.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 25, 2016, 01:18:53 PM
Nice, thanks! (I was composing this and 3 replies later lol)
When Waffle gets bored, how about some damage shapes for dumb train cars and trucks to put into rail yards and motor pools?
None of these show up in the Object Editor and my thinking is to build a railyard, but maybe that's what you already have in mind?
truck blitz blitz1 blitz2 box1 boxcar caboose flakcar (both of these track the drones and can't be destroyed with .det f01str 2) guncar (both of these track the drones and can't be destroyed with .det f01str 2) flat0 flat1 flat2 flat3 flatbed htender tender hudson loco sleeper tanker1 tanker2
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2016, 05:36:56 PM
With Beta7 the damage modeling skin no longer shows. Still the props are all in that fuzzy motion capture state.
All the bombers are adjusted, ugggh, now the fighters. Wonder if I should set down all the GV and WW1 planes in separate areas near by the fighters and bombers? The Ju88 is very resistant to small adjustments of pitch. The tail wheel just doesn't want to touch the ground.
(http://s20.postimg.org/btgien2fh/lineup01.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 25, 2016, 05:49:50 PM
You might also like these.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
Looks like an erector set for bug boys. :aok
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 25, 2016, 10:24:28 PM
We have a boat load of WW2 rides. This is all the bombers and fighters. The fighters side by side stretch the length of the runway. Tomorrow I will adjust the pitch on the fighters.
(http://s20.postimg.org/s5qk4dgr1/lineup02.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 26, 2016, 10:18:45 AM
Did you happen to note any frame rate difference with all those planes?
I've always wanted to scatter a few terrain appropriate aircraft around the fields for the additional immersion.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 26, 2016, 10:27:54 AM
With Beta7 the damage modeling skin no longer shows. Still the props are all in that fuzzy motion capture state.
Found a way to default the running prop image to be hidden by default. Wrote it this morning, we will be puting out another patch today primarily to fix the miss match tile in tank land today. It is a shape issue not a terrain issue.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 26, 2016, 10:30:07 AM
Nice. This keeps getting better and better!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 26, 2016, 11:41:10 AM
Did you happen to note any frame rate difference with all those planes?
I've always wanted to scatter a few terrain appropriate aircraft around the fields for the additional immersion.
It's a killer on frame rates.
Once I get this tweeked, I'm not sure how to use it to get the most from the photo op. I will post the res file of this version when it's ready along with a var file since people will probably play with the wirbel spawn while trying to use the photo op to best show the stable. I have all spawn radius set to zero so you don't fall off the high elevations. Also I will place a lineup of vehicles for inspection back of the bombers.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 26, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
I didn't know that the Bf109 K4 came with gondolas.
(http://s20.postimg.org/6sdpr0kct/lineup03.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 26, 2016, 07:30:43 PM
Hitech,
Did you want the 4 WW1 rides included in that Photo Op I setup on my terrain? Also now that I have the pitch built into the file, moving them around on that surface will not be a problem.
I made it available to everyone because I'm drawing a blank on how to take advantage of it for a film or screen shots.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 26, 2016, 09:32:41 PM
Did you want the 4 WW1 rides included in that Photo Op I setup on my terrain? Also now that I have the pitch built into the file, moving them around on that surface will not be a problem.
I made it available to everyone because I'm drawing a blank on how to take advantage of it for a film or screen shots. [/quot short video of a high speed pass.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 27, 2016, 02:47:46 PM
[/quot short video of a high speed pass.
Here is one, those static objects eat my FPS. I'll try one more without the field ack "if" the drones don't complicate the picture as GV. Or I'll do one with the same P51 slowly taxing down the runway end to end for more filler.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 27, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
A second one, drones as jeeps. There are trade offs, hope these two films I've done help. Those objects eat FPS. but, with the drones in the air even worse.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 27, 2016, 05:17:00 PM
The ahf film won't work without the latest release of the terrain res file. :lol
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 27, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
One of three things because now I'm confusalated,
1. - I'm using an out of date version of Beta8
or
2. - You haven't updated to Beta8 yet.
Or
3. - AHBT007TO008.EXE is like a booboo once during the alpha where the executable name was one thing but, the payload was the previous release's code.
Please tell me I don't need to get out the marble net yet. The cats are all asleep and not chasing anything on the floor...... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 27, 2016, 06:30:53 PM
:old: Anytime you run a film but don't have the terrain for that film, what do you think you will see?
Now extend that thought process to include what happens if the version of the terrain doesn't match the one the film used when it was made.
We're talking .res file, not .exe.
Edit: I guess you've never tried that. ahf isn't YouTube! Pull your gunnery.res file out of the folder and see what happens.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 27, 2016, 07:34:20 PM
I posted the dern thing down in the Beta forum but, wait I'll post it here just for you. Kranky, Kranky, Kranky.......
Next thing you know a renta forehead smacker will show up at my door to smack me...... :O
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 28, 2016, 01:42:01 AM
Here ya go :rofl
:bhead
Thanks for the file. I didn't see it there
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on February 28, 2016, 02:25:23 AM
My system is too slow to do this justice but perhaps your's is faster. I've been around longer then you so don't go flattening your forehead again!
Try this. It gives a rock steady low speed pass. Change the field ownership to knit so the ack isn't firing at the drowns, air or GV. Turn off FPS (Ctrl+I) Turn off Icons (Alt+I) (Actually I see you did this part) Move the text buffer off screen. Then select the plane you want to use in the hanger. It can be anything but I used a slow one. Use CMeye, no plane, and make a couple of passes to get the throttle set about right, then don't touch it. Plan your route unless you can merge the AH films. Set the mouse curser as close to the center of your screen as possible. It's your piper. Start the film rolling and begin your run in CMeye. Toward the end, I had to pull up a bit because of the P38s
Here's an example. I hope you like it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on February 28, 2016, 10:32:01 AM
There is something new called "vbrmt" in the objects list of the TE. Is this a new V base or just something that was not included in the show all shapes filter? If it is a base can it be used on an MA terrain and if so is there anything else I should know about it?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 28, 2016, 11:17:51 AM
There is something new called "vbrmt" in the objects list of the TE. Is this a new V base or just something that was not included in the show all shapes filter? If it is a base can it be used on an MA terrain and if so is there anything else I should know about it?
It is the v base used in the tank land terrain, yes it can be used in any terrain, it will have a few mods done to it yet, we forgot to put and exit pad in it.
It is a vbase that is not a square object but you should level the terrain where you place the object.
Also Note to Waffle: Add the other new objects we used in the remote base to the TE object list. It think it is only the Hangar object.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 11:39:45 AM
My system is too slow to do this justice but perhaps your's is faster. I've been around longer then you so don't go flattening your forehead again!
Try this. It gives a rock steady low speed pass. Change the field ownership to knit so the ack isn't firing at the drowns, air or GV. Turn off FPS (Ctrl+I) Turn off Icons (Alt+I) (Actually I see you did this part) Move the text buffer off screen. Then select the plane you want to use in the hanger. It can be anything but I used a slow one. Use CMeye, no plane, and make a couple of passes to get the throttle set about right, then don't touch it. Plan your route unless you can merge the AH films. Set the mouse curser as close to the center of your screen as possible. It's your piper. Start the film rolling and begin your run in CMeye. Toward the end, I had to pull up a bit because of the P38s
Here's an example. I hope you like it.
Does CMeye also give a you the ultra secret version of the storch with retractable gear?
(http://s20.postimg.org/3yb0wxz4d/Rides04.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 12:08:59 PM
Easycor,
Here join the fun, see if you can sqweek something out of this one. I changed field ownership to knights as you suggested. Bizman wants me to eventually move the rides around into some kind of a country block formation to make take a poster screen shot to show case all the rides. Can I start smacking my head again...... :O
Use Ridesgun03, it has the bases split between two countries. didn't realize making all the bases knights but the HQ was bish would be a problem.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 01:17:55 PM
Here you go.
1. - Field pass using the storch. 2. - Field pass using the P51D.
I have no clue how to turn these into any kind of other movie. I hope they will help as is. Now that I've got egg on my face, I'm including the correct version of the terrain with these films.
Those objects grouped together like that eat the FPS.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 01:44:07 PM
I think I can get all the fighters onto the big end of Marsden matting. Should make an interesting screen capture. Glad I backup this stuff. Once you move the fighter object, it keeps the primary elevation but, zero's the pitch. I'll copy those numbers in from a backup after I get the fighters positioned.
My wife is laughing at me over my shoulder. What else are Sundays for......... :rofl
Update: Getting there................... :O
(http://s20.postimg.org/g1gckia6l/Rides05.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 05:48:00 PM
Ok, if anyone wants to give this terrain a shot for films or photo ops.
Attached is the res file, placing all of the planes in that small space eats FPS to the point that the film is no longer recording the green color of the ground. It records the clutter and trees, but defaults the ground color to sand.
(http://s20.postimg.org/erij5ggel/Rides08.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 28, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
Btw buster if you select all the planes and vehicles and the do a make group.
It will be easy to place at a later date.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 08:06:50 PM
Thank you, something kept bugging me about not deleting anything yet.
If I make a group out of that, will the group's properties file include the pitch settings? Or do I make a "notes.txt" and save it in the folder with the final tweeked pitch and elevation settings for that field "object group"?
Any chance you can reveal roll,pitch,yaw in the GUI so they can be set there and kept with a save? I got so used to saving after every tweek that I would blow out the pitch I set by manual editing the oba file. Then when I moved all of these onto the Marsden matting, everything zero'd.
On the other hand I understand not making this an easy process. Frame rates are so easy to kill thinking you are being clever and artistic.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2016, 08:12:21 PM
Just made the object group.
WoW!!
I now have the source for all aircraft pitch, and to recreate that photo op for later shots or adding new rides to it.
Thank you for your suggestion.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on February 29, 2016, 04:44:24 AM
It is the v base used in the tank land terrain, yes it can be used in any terrain, it will have a few mods done to it yet, we forgot to put and exit pad in it.
It is a vbase that is not a square object but you should level the terrain where you place the object.
HiTech
I've been playing around with the new V base. Being only 1/8th of a mile square it opens up some interesting possibilities for map design such as really tight canyon fights. I also considered replacing the SPs around tank town with a load of small V bases, but I think this would let TT be rolled up quickly in off hours.
I have a question regarding the new base. As it is not a square tile object does the "only one STO in a four mile red square" rule apply? Can I place more than one of these bases in a red square or place one or more in a red square which has an STO in it already?
Also, I got an "invalid position" message when I tried to move into a field gun.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on February 29, 2016, 08:34:35 AM
I've been playing around with the new V base. Being only 1/8th of a mile square it opens up some interesting possibilities for map design such as really tight canyon fights. I also considered replacing the SPs around tank town with a load of small V bases, but I think this would let TT be rolled up quickly in off hours.
I have a question regarding the new base. As it is not a square tile object does the "only one STO in a four mile red square" rule apply? Can I place more than one of these bases in a red square or place one or more in a red square which has an STO in it already?
Also, I got an "invalid position" message when I tried to move into a field gun.
The field does not have a player controlled gun.
The 1 per red 4 mile only applies to square (Tile) objects, unlimited number can be of any other objects. And these can also be place on top of Tile objects.
The Tank land terrain is 4 - 4x4 mile objects all sitting next to each other, with these bases placed on them in the TE editor.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on February 29, 2016, 11:57:57 AM
Something was familiar about the road pattern. Then I just figured Waffle was testing a prototype for the road tool.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on March 07, 2016, 06:53:18 PM
The two tiles in the Eruo terr set that create rock with scattered trees on it. The last on to the right on the bottom row and the first to the left on the next row up. At a distance they create beautiful rock faces until you drive on them or up to them and they are covered in grass.
Is the grass clutter on these tiles a function of the pitch of the slope? Does it not get included if the slope is say 70-90 degrees and at a distance the bump mapping gives the illusion of a rock face? Or is the grass clutter there even on vertical faces?
I've been scratching my head on how to get a rock only transition no matter what. I suppose anyone building a full MA terrain will not be worried about things this micro focused as I've been getting with my single island terrain.
Here is the current iteration of my terrain with all of the aircraft, tank lines, and Waffle memorial sigs removed. I've done my best with the rock faces that are exposed.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: USRanger on March 19, 2016, 10:42:02 AM
Gonna try making a terrain with custom textures this weekend. Maybe something snow-covered, or desert. Should be interesting. This new system is so different.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 22, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
So im Working on the Baltic Map conversion. (thanks EasyScor, Skuzzy, and everyone else who have helped document the terrain editor. The transition from Engines like Unity and UE4 was painless thanks to that documentation) My only question is that pretty much most of the beaches are all messed up either via sunken landmasses or beaches that are double the size they should be. I figured id start there and clean up and correct the beaches and sunken landmasses. Well I saved what id done so far, built it, and loaded it in the offline mission mode to notice that AH3 is placing Trees/bushes on the beaches. I cant figure out how to correct it. can someone point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on March 22, 2016, 06:32:33 PM
In the elevation pain, there is a create all beaches, do this twice then start manual beach clean up.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 22, 2016, 06:53:00 PM
Thanks HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on March 23, 2016, 02:22:01 AM
So im Working on the Baltic Map conversion. (thanks EasyScor, Skuzzy, and everyone else who have helped document the terrain editor. The transition from Engines like Unity and UE4 was painless thanks to that documentation) My only question is that pretty much most of the beaches are all messed up either via sunken landmasses or beaches that are double the size they should be. I figured id start there and clean up and correct the beaches and sunken landmasses. Well I saved what id done so far, built it, and loaded it in the offline mission mode to notice that AH3 is placing Trees/bushes on the beaches. I cant figure out how to correct it. can someone point me in the right direction?
You are welcome. I'm glad you've found it useful. I know it's a pain, but backup your terrain folder often!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 23, 2016, 08:19:40 AM
So Ran Create Beaches Tool as you Suggested Hitech, But while it removes the trees/bushes. It completely destroyes the beaches. You can see in the image where i Hand redid the beaches, and then once the create beaches tool has ran it just obliterates it.
(http://i.imgur.com/CPlGywB.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 23, 2016, 10:16:43 AM
I found the same thing Nerfather. The create beaches in some areas produce similiar results. I also am staying away from the spline islands function since it also tends to produce results I don't like. Then again the stuff I am working on is historical terrains that need to match say New Britain and the Solomons and it does tend to matter about getting the coast lines to match as much as possible the real places.
You can always try just painting along the coast line with the pure sand terrain. I don't think that has trees/bushes in it but I haven't checked that out personally yet. Its not a huge concern for Special Events Terrains because we have very few events that incorporate LVTs landing on beaches.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 23, 2016, 11:43:25 AM
I found the same thing Nerfather. The create beaches in some areas produce similiar results. I also am staying away from the spline islands function since it also tends to produce results I don't like. Then again the stuff I am working on is historical terrains that need to match say New Britain and the Solomons and it does tend to matter about getting the coast lines to match as much as possible the real places.
You can always try just painting along the coast line with the pure sand terrain. I don't think that has trees/bushes in it but I haven't checked that out personally yet. Its not a huge concern for Special Events Terrains because we have very few events that incorporate LVTs landing on beaches.
I'll Give that a try, I've found a lot of interesting things during the conversion such as Massive terrain Spikes for no apparent reason, Random holes, And even a few places in game Where for instance you can see the top part of a hill from a distance but the sides dont load until much closer.
Heres an Imgur gallery of screenshots in AH3 of Baltic So far. Im working on texturing atm, so i frequently check stuff out in game. but some of the funnier bugs are in there as well haha.
http://imgur.com/a/ZpEXD
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 23, 2016, 01:04:37 PM
Yeah I have similar issue with spikes all around my coastlines.
Oh, and this if something anybody should know about working on historical terrains. DO NOT import the elevation height file if you have spline beaches. A fresh import gets rid of all your splining (or does so for me). So get your elevations right. Then after you are happy then go do the spline beaches.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 23, 2016, 05:26:27 PM
Yeah I have similar issue with spikes all around my coastlines.
Oh, and this if something anybody should know about working on historical terrains. DO NOT import the elevation height file if you have spline beaches. A fresh import gets rid of all your splining (or does so for me). So get your elevations right. Then after you are happy then go do the spline beaches.
What map are you working on? You keep saying historical and my interest level keeps getting higher hahahaha.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on March 23, 2016, 08:23:17 PM
Anyone want to make a request that the conversion process test an exported water depth bitmap for land or water depth and sets the elevation accordingly? Say default +5 minimum for land instead of underwater and default -40 where the bitmap shows water depth? That way we could eliminate the rivers (they'd mess up the conversion) before running the procedure and the beach work would become trivial.
I'm gon'a be in sooo much trouble! :bolt:
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 23, 2016, 08:36:32 PM
Hi NerdFarther Special Events has about 30 maps 512x512 based on the real world.
Currently I am working on a rebuild of blksea, blkseaw, solomons, and mariana. On blksea I decided to not just convert but bring in a new elevation map. So basically got srtm3 DEM files, brought them into Microdem and exported out a GeoTiff. Which then brought into L3DT and exported out into 16 bit gray raw. Then brought that into Photoshop and did a bunch of touch up. Then finally imported a new height.raw file to see how things would go. Lets just say it has been a learning experience.
Outside of that the normal conversion things you do is review the OBA file for base rotation issue (a few were randomly rotated but I think that was path 11 or 10), objects having the same name (didn't have any), missing objects (all our custom objects were replaced by fixme - beer bottles) so had to be yanked or replaced such as the 1x1 mile old cities being replaced with either 2x2 tank town or 4x4 cities. Same issue with the large 16x16 strat cities had to be replaced. Check errors showed that towns and bases no longer could be adjacent so had to move some so that they had 1 mile (1 sqTuare in between). Also had to give some airfields towns since the custom town objects they had were now gone. Then visual inspection of all the bases and strat objects to make sure they were now at the correct elevations. After all that then onto coastlines, painting textures on land, and hunting down lakes dots that didn't get removed. Also fixing the whole spiky elevation shoreline issue (where I found out not to reimport a raw.height file after you have done beach splining). etc.
Outside of convesion a bit easier but still lot of research and the maps are initially created from the DEM files I talked about earlier to match real work land shape and elevations. I was working on Malaysia but that is on hold.
I am reviewing work done on germanyw done by another team member. Also bob40 is currently being converted.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on March 24, 2016, 08:54:15 AM
Anyone want to make a request that the conversion process test an exported water depth bitmap for land or water depth and sets the elevation accordingly? Say default +5 minimum for land instead of underwater and default -40 where the bitmap shows water depth? That way we could eliminate the rivers (they'd mess up the conversion) before running the procedure and the beach work would become trivial.
I'm gon'a be in sooo much trouble! :bolt:
Maximum height you wish before setting to -40?
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on March 24, 2016, 10:44:12 AM
No, no. Any land shown in the waterd will still be land in the terrain and any water will still be water after the conversion. Lots of current terrains have broad low stretches along the coastlines, particularly around bases that needed to be on flat terrain. Max height where the conversion would normally come up with water and a negative value would then default to ~+5, that's the important part as far as I have seen. Where the conversion might find land instead of the water shown in the AH2 terrain's water, the default Min height would be at water ~-15 or -20. That would be a good start for showing lakes deliberately left in the terrain.
I'll send you an email later today with a zipped terrain showing examples of what is working and what isn't.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: NerdFather on March 24, 2016, 02:10:01 PM
Hi NerdFarther Special Events has about 30 maps 512x512 based on the real world.
Currently I am working on a rebuild of blksea, blkseaw, solomons, and mariana. On blksea I decided to not just convert but bring in a new elevation map. So basically got srtm3 DEM files, brought them into Microdem and exported out a GeoTiff. Which then brought into L3DT and exported out into 16 bit gray raw. Then brought that into Photoshop and did a bunch of touch up. Then finally imported a new height.raw file to see how things would go. Lets just say it has been a learning experience.
Outside of that the normal conversion things you do is review the OBA file for base rotation issue (a few were randomly rotated but I think that was path 11 or 10), objects having the same name (didn't have any), missing objects (all our custom objects were replaced by fixme - beer bottles) so had to be yanked or replaced such as the 1x1 mile old cities being replaced with either 2x2 tank town or 4x4 cities. Same issue with the large 16x16 strat cities had to be replaced. Check errors showed that towns and bases no longer could be adjacent so had to move some so that they had 1 mile (1 sqTuare in between). Also had to give some airfields towns since the custom town objects they had were now gone. Then visual inspection of all the bases and strat objects to make sure they were now at the correct elevations. After all that then onto coastlines, painting textures on land, and hunting down lakes dots that didn't get removed. Also fixing the whole spiky elevation shoreline issue (where I found out not to reimport a raw.height file after you have done beach splining). etc.
Outside of convesion a bit easier but still lot of research and the maps are initially created from the DEM files I talked about earlier to match real work land shape and elevations. I was working on Malaysia but that is on hold.
I am reviewing work done on germanyw done by another team member. Also bob40 is currently being converted.
Awesome, Yeah I was going to do a cliffs of dover map, but Hitech told me someones already in the process. but it was still fun to grab the DEM files for it and rip my hair out between microdem and L3DT getting a smooth heightmap. but then Hitech sent me the Baltic Source so Now im consuming all my time with that conversion. Deffinatley love the fact that Terrain for AH is so much more streamlined and intuitive then it was when creating and working on terrains in things like unity and Unreal 4. Spent most of today, going back and fixing Texture blend issues, and filling in holes etc. that shouldn't be there. Probably will spend tonight checking all of the cities and bases making sure they blend with the terrain properly without Gaps or a few locations i found today where theres 90 degree cliffs going up 6-700 feet right at the end of the airbase on a couple sides.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on March 24, 2016, 11:59:14 PM
I stopped using the create beaches tool along time ago. You will get infinitely better results hand touching them up. In England the cliffs of Dover are a chalk clay formation with no trees growing out of it. I hope who ever is creating a custom tile for chalk clay without random trees sprouting out of every seam. All three of the stone formation tiles I've been working with in the Terrset00 sprout random trees in the worst places.
Those Baltic cliffs, unless they drop off straight into the ocean, there should be a talus slope at the base of weather wear erosion rubble. But, then the stone tile to paint that with will have lots of random trees that really don't grow out of talus slopes.
I've just spent the last three months had sculpting and tile painting an island to get the geo formations and water erosion runoff scars real life looking from the air. I wanted to understand the limitations of sculpting terrain with this editor. Then Hitech decided to change some of the tiles which hosed what I thought was a finished product. Turns out he did me a favor.
I have a lot of respect for you guys with fixing everything on those full sized terrains after the conversion. Here are some shots from the editor of what three months taught me using terrset00. Oh! and this is al Easycor's fault...... :O
(http://s20.postimg.org/6t3y2vqbx/gunter01.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/celb9tkp9/gunter02.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/jn1zw83rh/gunter03.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/8wedajq4t/gunter04.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/vjtmgp5ot/gunter05.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/cik6n6wi5/gunter06.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on March 25, 2016, 03:49:56 AM
ROFLMAO
My fault eh? I couldn't have picked a more deserving victim, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I think Hitech has a few MA terrains that need conversion and you have the experience to recommend you now. After that, I have a couple more here on my hard drive. :)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on March 26, 2016, 09:52:47 PM
A tip for those dealing with large terrains and missed water bits.
Problem: Finding all those sewer ponds scattered about the terrain after shoreline and river repairs. Solution: Create a tile terrset with a bright color tile. It will make finding those ponds from altitude much easier.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 29, 2016, 09:29:31 PM
Hey is the object count still 50K for terrains in AH3? In AH2 if you had more than 50K objects in a terrain it threw "excessive object count" message when you loaded up a terrain in an arena but still allowed you to load the terrain.
So wondering if 50K objects is still the thresh hold for that warning message? Especially since I noticed with the conversion of some our larger terrains (e.g. Germany) the object count went up after going to the new version of strat objects, bases, etc.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 30, 2016, 09:19:50 AM
Okay I got my answer from skuzzy keep the total object count for AH3 terrains under 50,000. For you new builders to find your total object count:
In the Terrain Editor click on object tab
Down at the bottom you will see an "Object Report" button. Click on it
The object report dialog/modal will come up. At the top you will see "Total field" and then "Total objects". HTC best practice for terrains is that "Total objects" should not exceed 50,000.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on March 30, 2016, 09:39:50 AM
Okay I am not sure if this is just me or a bug with the TE make map feature.
For special events we create "strat maps" that show the location of fields and strat facilities for the CMs so they can design their events (need to know where airfields, etc. are so they can plan targets for an event). In AH2 when you went to make a map you could choose to show icons, grid lines, field names, spawn points, and a map size.
So in AH3 I did this:
Click on Make Map
Checked show icons
Unchecked show grid lines
Choose 2048x2048
It made map 1 (no icons).
Click on Make Map
Checked show icons
Left show grid lines checked
Choose 2048x2048
It made map 2 (no icons). Is anybody else having the same issue or does it work for you?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 68falcon on March 31, 2016, 11:40:16 AM
Not working for me either
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on April 04, 2016, 07:12:30 PM
It has been that way since I started testing the AH3 terrain editor since the late 80's alpha patches. Probably on the todo list like roads.
Title: Object LOD and mipmapping
Post by: 715 on April 18, 2016, 01:27:00 PM
I tried searching but I couldn't find an answer so I'd like to ask some (possibly dumb) questions about importing custom objects (like buildings, bridges, etc.) into AH3 Object Editor.
1) Does AH3 import objects with multiple dLOD levels? If yes, is there a limit to how many? I haven't started playing with AC3D yet, but I presume the UV texture mipmapping comes automatically since each dLOD has it's own texture map?
2) What's a good limit for number of polygons for a building in AH3?
3) How do you assign a "destroyed" model to an object?
4) Does anyone know of a program that automatically generates dLOD models/textures from the closeup detail model?
I probably should have played with AC3D before asking these questions, but I didn't want to waste time on learning LOD/mipmapping if AH3 doesn't support it on imported custom objects. I've also played with Blender, which I find weird but workable. Is it possible to import into AH3 from Blender? What modeling program do you object makers like to use?
Title: Re: Object LOD and mipmapping
Post by: hitech on April 18, 2016, 04:36:53 PM
I tried searching but I couldn't find an answer so I'd like to ask some (possibly dumb) questions about importing custom objects (like buildings, bridges, etc.) into AH3 Object Editor.
1) Does AH3 import objects with multiple dLOD levels? If yes, is there a limit to how many? I haven't started playing with AC3D yet, but I presume the UV texture mipmapping comes automatically since each dLOD has it's own texture map?
2) What's a good limit for number of polygons for a building in AH3?
3) How do you assign a "destroyed" model to an object?
4) Does anyone know of a program that automatically generates dLOD models/textures from the closeup detail model?
I probably should have played with AC3D before asking these questions, but I didn't want to waste time on learning LOD/mipmapping if AH3 doesn't support it on imported custom objects. I've also played with Blender, which I find weird but workable. Is it possible to import into AH3 from Blender? What modeling program do you object makers like to use?
Texture LODS are automatic.
Mesh lods must be created by the artist.
The best way to get a handle is to take one of our existing shapes from the object editor and export it to AC3D.
Also the hierarchy of all shapes can be displayed in the OE with the Tree button.
Dead shapes are set with a flag in the OE editor, basicly you make the AC3D shape import it and set your flags, then export back to AC3D and all the information is stored in the ac3d shape with text/comment fields.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: 715 on April 18, 2016, 08:12:36 PM
Thanks for the reply. I didn't know you could export an AH3 object from the Object Editor back into AC3D: that seems the best way to learn what's needed.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on May 10, 2016, 01:27:13 PM
Recently I've had to clean up a mistake I made by applying Atlas 1 Type 17 onto the town object edges trying to blend road systems. No trees are laid down nor small building objects. The base terrain 2D map is there for them though, but, while driving on those areas the clutter and grass is shiny blackish grey. I solved the dilemma by replacing it with an Atlas Type 0 tile.
For objects like the town, port, TT and other fields, what is the best way to apply clutter and trees if possible? Or are those tiles locked, and I should lay them down again to clean off anything I applied to them? At least I keep backups of my oba file for elevation and pitch info.
I've notice with the TT object that there is a blackish boarder of clutter along the sides of the TT roads that I spilled over the edge of the TT object boarder some Atlas Type 1 or Atlas Type 0.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on May 21, 2016, 06:24:01 PM
Will the TE's texture maker still use _b1.bmp or has it migrated to the _S.bmp format?
Same question for the Object Editor. Seems it's already migrated to the _S format.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on May 29, 2016, 01:32:46 PM
So I have an issue with the Terrain editor in patch 21. Basically the main terrain window everything is black. Also in the window showing the clipboard map there is a black line running horizontally at the midway point (center of screen) from left to right. Only once I turned trees on do I see them but everything else is still black.
I have uninstalled AH3 Beta complete and reinstalled from the full download and still have the same issue. Current machine is on DX12.
Any ideas? Anybody else having issues with the Terrain Editor under patch 21? I was fine under patch 19 so I will probably have to roll back to the full patch 19 version since I can't work on terrains as is.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: ghostdancer on May 29, 2016, 05:39:54 PM
Okay it is resolved now, looks like the TE was also using DirectX 11 now. So I went and updated my video drivers (didn't do anything) and then went back and got the Direct 11 pack and installed. Now AHBETA11 and the TE work for me.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on June 10, 2016, 09:18:06 AM
Will the TE's texture maker still use _b1.bmp or has it migrated to the _S.bmp format?
Same question for the Object Editor. Seems it's already migrated to the _S format.
Sorry for the delay, it must use b1. There are two differences between _S and _B1
When using _S the texture building will place the spec map in either _A0 or B1 depending if there is also an alpha map. This is the generic system used for objects. The 2nd difference is that using the _S will also now how to populate the texture matrix.
With terrain all channels are fixed an can not be put into other spaces. Since there is not really an alpha channel on terrain the _S would end up in the wrong spot.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 21, 2016, 09:54:01 PM
I think I've found a problem with the ahuploader.exe
PLEASE tell me if I've found it as I've been pulling my hair out and I can't afford much more of that.
The issue is most likely being caused by the extra files you have in your folder. Like Copy (2).oba
HiTech
I removed them from earlier uploads. It didn't help with the upload.
Ah, right, you mean it's causing the error message. That may be why I didn't see the error message every time. I'd removed all the extraneous files as one of the first things I did with avaeto. Then finally when I started with a the avalibya terrain name I backed up the .oba file again and didn't remove it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 23, 2016, 02:21:52 AM
Terrain Editor The input focus for keystrokes are still happening in the Edit Window causing it to jump around as I try to type in this post.
Object Editor Will do the same thing.
I will loose my view of my work while I'm here. :bhead
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 23, 2016, 02:39:14 PM
When building a sq tile object in the OE, the trees are invisible except for the red highlight.
Once you build the sq tile object and place it in the TE, you still won't see the trees and after you build the terrain, you still won't see the trees. It they are collidable, I haven't run into them.
I thought is that there might be a swa file somewhere that I need to find and move but I don't know where to look for it.
When building terrain tiles, I don't have this problem. For those, the trees show everywhere you'd expect.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 23, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
I've thought of a very good reason to ship the tree files for the default terrsets. If I want to include a single terrain tile but still want to use the rest, currently I must recreate the entire set of trees for all 20 terrain tiles.
Since I already know I want to create at least one terrain tile and shift three existing tiles, it would be immensely helpful to have the default tree set.
Thanks
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 23, 2016, 04:47:46 PM
This one's complicated
Using the OE, export rdfct1x1m.
In the export folder I have the following files: 1 rdfct1x1m.ac 2 RDFCT1X1M_EV_d.txt 3 RADARF1M.bmp 4 RADARF1M_A.bmp 5 RADARF1M_E.bmp 6 RADARF1M_N.bmp 7 RADARF1M_S.bmp 8 RDFCT1X1M_CL.bmp 9 RDFCT1X1M_EV.bmp
Now the only change I make is to rename file number 1, the rdfct1x1m.ac file.
Rename it mytest.ac.
Using the OE, Convert the ac file, mytest.ac. Remember, I didn't change anything inside.
My userlib folder now has the following: mytest.shp RADARF1M.htx RADARF1M_NEP.htx
I remembered before this patch of getting _CL and an _EV.htx files as well, they're not here in this patch after a simple conversion.
I install the three files in my texsrc folder and try to install mytest into a terrain with the TE and it crashes upon clicking OK.
I go back to the OE and create a sq tile with one building. I name it mytest2.
I install the mytest version of the radar factory ground into sq tile mytest2 and it looks good. I add a building and build it.
Now I get the two missing _CL and an _EV.htx files in both the userlib and newshps folders. Except for the difference in upper case and lower case, they appear to be the same at 258 KB.
But wait, in the last OE, these four files would have both been RDFCT1X1M_CL.htx and RDFCT1X1M_EV.htx (except for the case) and now they're named MYTEST_CL.htx and MYTEST_EV.htx
I put the six files into my texsrc folder. (mytest.shp, RADARF1M.htx, RADARF1M_NEP.htx, mytest2.shp, mytest_CL.htx, and mytest_EV.htx)
The sq tile shape is mytest2 in the Shapes List I place it into the terrain but don't click ok yet. I don't see anything except the building I placed in the OE until I get very very close, then the sq tile ground, mytest, shows. I click OK and I'm surprised when it doesn't crash the TE.
Now I have the same exact problem I've had with my city0. Remember, I didn't touch any of the internals here. At very long distances, and at very close range the ground texture shows, but not for most of the viewing distances in between, it's gone. I build and test the terrain just to confirm the same problem is in-game.
You can see almost the same effect with the city in avaeto except I managed to force a reduction of the problem by changing the LODs.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 23, 2016, 08:29:30 PM
I think I was supposed to remind you to include the rolling stock in the OE. Trucks, rail cars, planes etc.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 25, 2016, 01:36:12 PM
In AH2, I could change the flags' textures. I've tried to do the same for beta terrains. Is there any way to do this?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on June 30, 2016, 05:01:25 AM
I was in the middle of adding trees to city0 and double clicked the title bar to maximize the window, it crashed the Object Editor.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 04, 2016, 03:08:21 AM
The Terrain Editor can unexpectedly switch objects.
I was healing the terrain around a vBase and had the object properties window open. I wanted to add a temporary object to the terrain to mark my place. When I selected it in the list, the vBase disappeared and the object I'd selected as a marker replaced it. It took me a minute to realize what had happened and fortunately, when I changed the marker object back to a vBase object, all the vBase properties reappeared, the GMS, even the field numbers and zone. That surprised me because it declared the replacement marker object to be a VOD type.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 06, 2016, 09:59:38 AM
Reminder, in the TE, accidentally hitting one of the number keys instead of the w or q key will switch Elevation filters.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 09, 2016, 01:29:02 AM
I found that the pineforest terrain type tile makes such an obvious boundary line when jumping from any tile type below it to the highmeadow or rockgrass, that I decided to reorder the terrain type tiles. I think I've found a bug in the process.
The pineforest tile type works perfectly well when doing this.
However, both highmeadow and rockgrass have issues with their 3d trees not matching the shadows in the textures when they are reshuffled in this way.
In the jpg, notice the texture's tree shadows vs the location of the 3D trees. The default tile set has this right. You can see the reshuffling I did in the Terrain Type Tab with arrows indicating how the tiles are rearranged.
In the way of further explanation of why I'd do this, the forest tile is likely to be near the rock (cliff face) terrain tile type or one with snow. If forest isn't installed then any boundary caused by the missing forest type looks somewhat plausible at the foot of the cliffs or at the top. In fact, I can't see any boundary at all when forest is skipped and highmeadow or rockgrass is placed at the foot of a rock cliff.
Currently, if you lay highmeadow next to roughgrass, the shadows in the pineforest texture draws a very sharp dark line through the terrain so highmeadow and rockgrass are both to be avoided imo. Hence my effort to reorder the tiles and something I wish to be made reliable going forward.
Thanks
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 17, 2016, 02:43:33 PM
Request-
I'd like a new brush added on the Elevations tab. A brush that holds an elevation like brush 3 except that it doesn't level high spots, only fills in low spots to the given elevation. I guess it could operate in revers if you hold down the shift key but right now I'm trying to fill sinks in the terrain.
Perhaps brush 3 could do this with +shift and +ctrl key for both these added functions.
Thanks
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 26, 2016, 02:39:40 PM
The 'Alt' slider doesn't track as you use the keyboard to gain altitude.
I'm working on documenting two more issues for the Terrain tab.
Edit: I don't think the 'Time' slider tracks the time of day changes either.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 26, 2016, 03:37:01 PM
This started as a report about the 'Keep Current Merge Type' checkbox box but became very complicated.
If there's an actual bug, it's that the TE has no option to clear the RGB registers before installing a ground type and you must know how to force, it and then remember to manually override the system to set a pure color type with no visible merge in the exported splatmap. I'd call that a user work-around and I doubt it's what you intended though a constant merge appears to work well in the TE. When you start using a splatmap, it becomes very confusing and difficult to deal with most of the time.
Examples: If the current ground type is A0 00 00 (forrest1 in ETO) and the box is unchecked, when cliff 00 C0 FF is primary and sandybeach 10 00 00 is secondary, the new installed type becomes a mix of the selections resulting in 10 C0 FF (the beach)&(the cliff), the original forest appears overwritten and you see cliff but the . Switch the secondary and primary, you get 10 CO 00 and you see sandybeach. The green channel remains just as the red channel remained in the first case. With the box checked, the results are similar in the splatmap with the primary merged with the current ground type.
Next post, the filters.
Edit: I'll install the newest update first.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 29, 2016, 08:19:13 PM
Setup Circles Bug
The setup circles only work for Group Masters and nothing else.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 29, 2016, 11:26:56 PM
The terrset0x folder for shapesswa.sta etc isn't being made in TE p37.
nm, I see it's working without it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 30, 2016, 03:18:17 AM
When I bring up all the entpnt shapes in the Selection List and modify one of them (no collide), the lists scrolls back to the top first one in the list when I hit Apply. Shouldn't it remain at my last place in the list?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 30, 2016, 05:18:45 AM
Suppose you realize that you've failed to set all your spawns, airspawns or GV etc to non collide. If you use the shape or type functions you can obtain the full list and change most settings but not the collisions for the whole list.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 30, 2016, 06:34:57 PM
Patch 37 I tried making several bit depth versions of a 2048 Clipboard map for two different terrains and although they show in the TE and in-game, when zoomed to show the whole map, they fade to black. Weird. 1024 CBMs work.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on July 31, 2016, 09:39:35 AM
Thank you for the flag texturing! I did find a texture issues that affects all flags. Imagine the Stars and Strips hanging from the wrong side of the texture. Pretty much all of them will have the same problem as this one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=370041.0;attach=24982)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 08, 2016, 01:22:30 PM
With the distributed strat do we place the strat or is that something waffle does if your terrain is accepted for rotation?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 08, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
You have to do it yourself. It is pretty much the same as placing airfields really except for them needing to be set to country owned rather than field owned. Try to make the placement fair for all sides and don't put a strat too close to any adjacent airfields (10 miles rings a bell). V bases or ports need to be far enough away from a strat for them to be out out of AA range of each other. Flak bases can be placed close to a strat so long as there is at least one square seperation since neither strats or flak bases are captureable. You can position SPs at strats for GV fights, except at the cities. I'd suggest placing the HQ and city well away from the front lines.
If you sent HTC a drawn map showing your intended placement, I'm sure they would offer feedback on it.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 08, 2016, 04:16:52 PM
Greebo,
Thank you, I started out wondering how on a 10x10 map you divided it by three semi equally. I used 10x10 engineering paper and drew a 5 radi sector ring. Then set three 120 degree rays from center. Looks like you have to rotate the radi a few degrees. Then one thing led to another and I started defining topographical features along with field placement and the HQ's. I ended up with my question of who or how do you distribute the strat.
I just remembered another question. How do you determine the three un-capturable bases near the HQ and what is a good relationship of the city to the HQ on a small map now that we have the AAA bases? We want bombers to get through to the city to possibly generate combat and give the bomber guys a reason to fly deep missions correct?
I think I've resurrected a very old map I saw once. A simple giant caldera where the map is ringed by 12k-17k mountains and highlands dropping into a central bowel pond with a 1000ft center monolith and the AH3 TT with three GV bases on it. The countries are divided by feeder rivers. The midlands will be 5k-6k so heavy bombers can get off the ground with heavy loads. The HQ and strats will be up in the highlands.
Wasn't that map long ago called the ameba map or something like that??
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Greebo on August 08, 2016, 05:22:30 PM
For CraterMA I drew the base and strat layout for one country in Paint Shop Pro after making radial and circumferential guide layers and then copied, pasted and rotated this set of base positions 120 degrees for the other two countries. After that I created the terrain around these bases as a series of altitude layers, which I later used to make an altitude map which I then imported into the TE.
How and where you place your strats is to some extent a question of how you want your map to play. Personally I dislike anything that makes it easier for players to hide from a fight. Disabling an enemy country's radar and darbars makes it easier to hide so I like to protect the HQ and city as much as possible. On CraterMA I placed the HQ and city as far from the front lines as I could given its only a small map and I surrounded them with three large uncapturable airfields. In the AH3 version of the map I have added pairs of flak bases next to the city and HQ as well as placing V bases near the strats to give them some radar coverage. I even routed cloud banks over all the strats so they are covered about 25% of the time.
I seem to recall 4K was the highest you are allowed put an air base in an MA map, since the thinner air stops heavily laden bombers getting off the ground any higher than that. Although the bigger bases with longer runways in AH3 might allow higher alts to be used now.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 09, 2016, 01:02:04 AM
Greebo has given good advice and I can add only a little to his recommendations. I'd say think about the fights but also the types of missions a new squad to AH might try to run. Old squads will know exactly what they need for success in any aspect of the game, but new ones are something else. When I think of an MA design, I want some things to look easy, and inviting. Okay, it's a trap for the unwarry but guys love to run NOE if they think they can capture a base. It's exciting, and even if they don't succeed, they can have fun while providing a fight for the old pros. You can always count on some fool breaking dar and annouuncing an NOE attact. Even if that doesn't happen, if a country can't kill a Goon then they deserver to loose the base.
I can't swear to this, but I remember htc posted 6k as the maximum alt for any airbase. To be safe, I'd stay with 5k as max and want one or two bomber bases at that alt for each side depending on the terrain size. Make sure you have an equal number of 'high alt' bases for each side or you end up with sfma's two. One is at 6.0k and one at 6.6+k, but none for the south country are above 1.5k. btw, mindnao's A2 is at 5k and A54 is at 5.5k. The Baltic terrain had one at ~6+k but I haven't looked to see which one and how high it actually is. It exceeded the current hight limit iirc.
My personal priorities are that a terrain is fun and attractive, but that it would be hard to reset in under a day (lots of bases but there are rules for that). Then I think about the types of missions and fights I want to see, CV battles, GV battles for territory, in addition to the usual low alt furballs, etc.
Everybody will have a different concept and that's what will keep the game fresh.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 09, 2016, 03:13:12 PM
Going with a 10X10 to see if I can help the different player styles get at each other. I'm just doing a giant fish bowel caldera with a 12x12 island in the center for TT. I think 1 cv per side will work in the pond since the island will be all cliffs to 1000ft and it's own minor caldera. I needed to know who places the strat and if there were any requirements to meet.
I'm doing a mock up in paint.net to send into HTC like Greebo suggested.
Can I elevate high enough that a 10x10 will be completely seen in the TE? Or will I have match grid points from the mock up to connect dots for the gross land features at first?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 09, 2016, 03:56:44 PM
Can I elevate high enough that a 10x10 will be completely seen in the TE? Or will I have match grid points from the mock up to connect dots for the gross land features at first?
Simply start with your sketch as the map for the TE.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 09, 2016, 04:28:39 PM
Thank you.... :salute
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 09, 2016, 07:48:01 PM
Can I still leave the CV out of a task force in AH3?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 09, 2016, 11:40:51 PM
This is why I want to leave out the cruiser.
(https://s20.postimg.org/w2anabedp/proto.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 10, 2016, 03:19:50 PM
On second thought, I'll leave the cruiser in. Land mode 8in slavos to TT and the GV bases will be irritating, but not as much as well aimed jabo and bombers that will visit the island. I'm hoping the small water area will make interception from the CV a standard procedure along with the cruisers sinking each other quickly. Firing against targets on the TT island will act as a beacon for bombers to sink the task group. The land spawns onto the island will make it easy for GVballers to ignore the shutdown GV base on the island or make it easy to defend. I'm hoping the CVs get parked near the island to take the place of laying down AAA bases on the island along with the radar coverage area.
I am torn between creating an access from the water by LVT up a collapsed area of cliff below each island GV base or, being a stinker and forcing it onto a c47 or an M3 bushwhacking from the next base. There are some good road systems in the 4 primary tiles from the EU tile set.
The shore line LF I'm thinking of using the super large airfeild with the attached large village. If I do that I probably need to place cross river GV spawns from the two SF airfeilds at the river mouths and spawns from one of the SF both ways to and from the LF to promote a combined forces fight into that giant complex. I'm trying to keep the numbers of airbases with GV spawns to a minimum to promote use of the c47 versus the M3 for resupply and base taking. It should make it possible for a tiny number of guys in fighters to put a break on a tiny number of guys late night sneaking fields with M3s. One good evening with a hoard would roll this map if anyone ever gets organized again and runs missions.
Now all I have to do is build my new PC and start laying down mounds of sand in my sandbox, then sculpt them.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 11, 2016, 12:01:33 AM
TE Bug - On several sessions in the TE lasting approximately 3 hours+, the map editing window fails to respond to the keyboard movement keys. I can select a textbox and type into that, but nothing I do will bring back movement control until I exit out and restart. At the time, I'm also running Skype and Thunderbird, if that matters.
I just realized, this might be caused if I accidentally roll the mouse wheel while moving and don't notice.
Also, I occasionally hear a warning chime when pressing a movement key.
I've posted several other issues above in this thread instead of the DX# forums so they wouldn't be buried.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 11, 2016, 02:46:56 PM
I was hearing the same chime. It sounded like the Win7 key buffer full warning when you hold down on a key too long.
Just noticed on my terrain mock up I got some spawns backwards. Sculpting that thing will be the easy part, all the tiny individual GUI data details for every single object.............. :bhead
I have to test every single base and every single spawn on that thing don't I??? :O Do I find a shrink now or wait for my wife to tell me it's not normal to sit up all night in your sleep playing with an invisible keyboard and mouse?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 16, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
Hight maps in L3DT.
If I start a new TE project 256x256 and save it to generate folders and files. Then export a raw file for import to L3DT that has no elevations set to it yet. In L3DT the work space I massage into a hight file for export back as a raw file for the TE. When I import it into the TE, it will be a 256x256 basic terrain elevations generated from the work I exported out of L3DT?
Or do I have to define some area of land mass before the export?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 17, 2016, 05:41:52 AM
TE patch 38
I finally figured out what was driving me nuts when using the Elevations Tab. If I inadvertently depress the Shift Key while rotating the mouse roller, it will change the given value in the text boxes. I can't tell you how often I've had to reset those values.
Obviously we can't disable the Shift key in the Elevations Tab but please disable the Shift key changing the values in the text boxes. It might take a bit longer to type in a value, but then it can be depended upon to stick.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: hitech on August 17, 2016, 09:43:15 AM
If I start a new TE project 256x256 and save it to generate folders and files. Then export a raw file for import to L3DT that has no elevations set to it yet. In L3DT the work space I massage into a hight file for export back as a raw file for the TE. When I import it into the TE, it will be a 256x256 basic terrain elevations generated from the work I exported out of L3DT?
Or do I have to define some area of land mass before the export?
Your always working in 512x512 mile height map, the only thing the 256 scale does is change your bit map (on clip board and when working in editor) to different scale.
HiTech
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 17, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
Is that why on smaller maps when you fly off the edge of the clipboard map it is all water?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 17, 2016, 03:12:04 PM
yes, usually.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 17, 2016, 03:42:09 PM
I had surmised that after working in the TE. I just wasn't seeing how well the CBM was synced to the terrain. What happens when you reach the real edge of the world at 512x512?
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: Easyscor on August 17, 2016, 03:46:17 PM
The same thing that happens on a 512 terrain when you fly off the map.
Title: Re: Terrain Editor
Post by: bustr on August 17, 2016, 04:22:49 PM
That secret world where one terrain creator used to hide CVs in the other universe canal and your weapons became disabled. OKydoky.... :O