General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on March 23, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
Title: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 23, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
So tired of diving on a 190D only for it to do 2 evasive and gladly press X and run away. This is the problem with the MA. Too many yak3, 190D press X garbage. Totally lame game play. It would seriously fix most of the MA gripes if these 2 planes were taken down a notch. So tired of chasing them all over the map. If the TA use to be perked, why the heck isnt the 190D, 500 cannons and the best engine with the best dive almost deserves a small perk. Please reduce this planes usage with a small perk.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 23, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
-1 (Sorta.)
Fly a Dora. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 23, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Fly a plane you won't win in. You'll have plenty of fights.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2019, 05:33:16 PM
Everyone flying in 190Ds is unhealthy for the game.
Then perk everything that isn't early war. Give mid war a moderate perk cost and late war a higher perk cost, based on how late and how much of a monster the equipment is. That's better than having the late/mid/early arenas since the population would all be in one MA. Born killers will finally use their perks and likely won't suffer the consequence. Dweebs like me will fly clunkers and either get better or be stuck there.
Now, we just gotta ask ourselves if this change in environment will retain a customer base. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2019, 03:44:29 PM
Then perk everything that isn't early war. Give mid war a moderate perk cost and late war a higher perk cost, based on how late and how much of a monster the equipment is. That's better than having the late/mid/early arenas since the population would all be in one MA. Born killers will finally use their perks and likely won't suffer the consequence. Dweebs like me will fly clunkers and either get better or be stuck there.
Now, we just gotta ask ourselves if this change in environment will retain a customer base. :D
Speed and acceleration are the 2 biggest advantages a plane can have. If a G14 (late war) or a P47M (latewar) can't catch a 190D after a couple of evasives, it's obviously a super plane. What's really the difference between a Temp and a 190D besides the 2 extra Cannon's? Only a few late super late war planes should be perked. Reducing their usage won't be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 24, 2019, 03:49:16 PM
Um, 190D is late war and would likely rate a higher perk cost ..... or am I missing something in your post?
The real concern, regarding your frustration, is whether the supposedly needed cure would kill the patient, however.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 24, 2019, 04:28:20 PM
Speed and acceleration are the 2 biggest advantages a plane can have. If a G14 (late war) or a P47M (latewar) can't catch a 190D after a couple of evasives, it's obviously a super plane. What's really the difference between a Temp and a 190D besides the 2 extra Cannon's? Only a few late super late war planes should be perked. Reducing their usage won't be a bad thing.
Biggest advantage would be having the better pilot.
The game needs to be fun for new players. It's not a war, they can leave anytime and they're paying to play. How does perking more planes help them have fun and stick around for a while? A player who's been here for years probably knows there's nothing better but new players often quit before appreciating that.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 24, 2019, 04:51:31 PM
Biggest advantage would be having the better pilot.
The game needs to be fun for new players. It's not a war, they can leave anytime and they're paying to play. How does perking more planes help them have fun and stick around for a while? A player who's been here for years probably knows there's nothing better but new players often quit before appreciating that.
Right on.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 24, 2019, 05:28:26 PM
The game needs to be fun for new players. It's not a war, they can leave anytime and they're paying to play. How does perking more planes help them have fun and stick around for a while? A player who's been here for years probably knows there's nothing better but new players often quit before appreciating that.
I think new players would be more frustrated at the fact that they never get into a fight but are constantly BnZ'd by fast planes. Even if they put the effort in to get good they can never win against a plane that can (and all too often does) just out run them.
I have been here a number of years and that has to be my biggest gripe. Bear in mind I fly a 51 almost exclusively so should be able to run players down however too many choose to run away as the first option, to the point that the game frustrates me enough to not bother anymore.
I think this is the best game of its genre but there is a general tendency to run first fight second.
I do not know the answer. Having a game filled with more spit 1's and 109e's might help but IMO all you will see is the same behaviours just 75 moh slower.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 24, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Half of the plane roster should be perked lightly!
DutchVII
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: pembquist on March 24, 2019, 08:07:46 PM
I don't think the problem is fixable with current technology. You need code that will peer into the dark recess of the players soul and discern evil and narcissism. Once you have that figured out the rest is easy.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 24, 2019, 08:14:35 PM
I don't think the problem is fixable with current technology. You need code that will peer into the dark recess of the players soul and discern evil and narcissism. Once you have that figured out the rest is easy.
What game are you playing? :O
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Oldman731 on March 24, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
Nothing new there. "Runners" have been a complaint since at least 1995. Usually they respond with the phrase "flying smart."
- oldman
This^^^
maybe charge a perk based on the player,ranking,time in game,hours of play etc. Sort of an eny for the player,once a certain level is reached then they must pay a perk price for said late war monsters? Could even base the perk on the planes eny or whatever and as the players rating is increased so is the perk cost of the plane.
Of course then this will lead to socalled timid flying etc.
:salute
PS: I meant "smart" flying...... :devil
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 24, 2019, 09:33:34 PM
Statistically speaking. Just by looking at a few months stats, the 190D is the best fighter in AH right now. It has a thousand more kills than the other top fighters other than the P51 and Spit16, with a much better K/D. Wouldnt it be better to reduce that usage to a 1000 kills like the Tempest? Too many of these planes are bad for noobs. Top E fighters should not be able to take over the MA. A 5-10 eny perk for top E planes would go a long way in bringing back balanced fights.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: morfiend on March 24, 2019, 10:08:57 PM
How does keeping new players out of the top fighters help?
Unless new players are given a certain amount of perks to spend they will be limited to unperked planes and easy meat. Unless thats what you're looking for?
If you want to keep the better players out of these planes then the only solution I see is a perk system that applies once a player reaches a certain rating or rank.
Ask Shuff,he could care less if he had to pay 20 perks for a D9,he has plenty to spend but chooses to fly a twin engine bomber..... :devil
Now what and how you base the ranking/rating well thats above my pay grade!
:salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 24, 2019, 10:10:54 PM
Statistically speaking. Just by looking at a few months stats, the 190D is the best fighter in AH right now. It has a thousand more kills than the other top fighters other than the P51 and Spit16, with a much better K/D. Wouldnt it be better to reduce that usage to a 1000 kills like the Tempest? Too many of these planes are bad for noobs. Top E fighters should not be able to take over the MA. A 5-10 eny perk for top E planes would go a long way in bringing back balanced fights.
Didn't you land 5 kills in a Tempest earlier today (why the long face, ace)? And how is the Dora getting so many kills by running away all the time? :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: pembquist on March 24, 2019, 10:36:48 PM
How does keeping new players out of the top fighters help?
Unless new players are given a certain amount of perks to spend they will be limited to unperked planes and easy meat. Unless thats what you're looking for?
If you want to keep the better players out of these planes then the only solution I see is a perk system that applies once a player reaches a certain rating or rank.
Ask Shuff,he could care less if he had to pay 20 perks for a D9,he has plenty to spend but chooses to fly a twin engine bomber..... :devil
Now what and how you base the ranking/rating well thats above my pay grade!
:salute
It's actually discouraging it's use due to being perked, much like the temp so that it keeps most good players from abusing them and making the game harder for the noobs. More players having to fly top E planes to compete discourages fights. If everyone flew temps the fights would be high and slow. That's what the 190 does. It has 3100 kills which is more than most planes x 5. 2K more than the temp. In almost any other game, the new player has to earn something for better equipment. There are plenty of great planes for noobs to fly but there are many good sticks abusing top E planes and that makes it harder for noobs even if they have to resort to flying that top E plane as well. I sorta agree with your idea morf, but I am just trying to make it as simple as possible. A small adjustment is necessary for healthy gameplay.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: nrshida on March 25, 2019, 04:30:20 AM
Realistically Violator, you're a way above average stick. Obviously you are going to have a very hard time getting a fight out of a 12-12 merge with observably good flying in the first merge. Blowing through and coming back for a pick is far preferable for a less skilled opponent. I don't think any game mechanic can reliable address that.
Perks only address the plane choice in the short-term and don't factor in the human half of the equation. Zackbell - for instance - flies a Spit9 just like most people fly a Dora.
Probably your best solution would be to pursue fights based on 12-6 merges and reversals of fortune. 'Timid' / 'smart' / 'safe' players usually have an OODA loop you can manipulate and although it's much more risky I found such an approach also rewarding. Also saves a lot of tedious & time-consuming pre-fight jostling for position and can alter your plane choice. You aren't going to get a massively high score with this approach of course, if that's important to you.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 09:24:33 AM
It's actually discouraging it's use due to being perked, much like the temp so that it keeps most good players from abusing them and making the game harder for the noobs. More players having to fly top E planes to compete discourages fights. If everyone flew temps the fights would be high and slow. That's what the 190 does. It has 3100 kills which is more than most planes x 5. 2K more than the temp. In almost any other game, the new player has to earn something for better equipment. There are plenty of great planes for noobs to fly but there are many good sticks abusing top E planes and that makes it harder for noobs even if they have to resort to flying that top E plane as well. I sorta agree with your idea morf, but I am just trying to make it as simple as possible. A small adjustment is necessary for healthy gameplay.
The simple point you're ignoring is that new players do not like being unable to fly perk planes. Your actual complaint is that players can evade you. That's not much of a complaint. Trying to prop it up with an opinion that it's not good for the game is not convincing. Nobody likes to see their target run away but HTC's solution for that is the match arena.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: BLINK on March 25, 2019, 09:39:47 AM
I remember running 190's driving me crazy, but it is all part of the game....definitly one thing I never understood is running in a combat game...but it does take all kinds
you could always play possum...fly like a noob...get them over confident....and kill em :-)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lazerr on March 25, 2019, 10:18:52 AM
I flew a p40 for 3 or 4 sorties last night. 4 to 5 kills per sortie, everyone ran from me. They always came back though. :) and usually died for it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 10:22:39 AM
I flew a p40 for 3 or 4 sorties last night. 4 to 5 kills per sortie, everyone ran from me. They always came back though. :) and usually died for it.
Probably due to you not spending undue effort on the '12-6 merge.' :D
:cheers: :salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 10:24:55 AM
If you perk stuff that's currently unperked, I would expect that people who still want to fly it will pay the perk and fly even more timidly than they did before because of the perks. Seems a bit counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish.
Those that don't want to risk perks will just move down to the next fastest plane. There will always be a fastest unperked plane, and that's where they'll go. Unless you want to perk everything that can outrun a stuka.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 10:32:25 AM
I remember running 190's driving me crazy, but it is all part of the game....definitly one thing I never understood is running in a combat game...
We all want to win. If I can consistently beat somebody then getting away from me is as much of a win as they can get at that time. Those little victories of getting away are more fun then losing every fight to an experienced player.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 10:36:03 AM
We all want to win. If I can consistently beat somebody then getting away from me is as much of a win as they can get at that time. Those little victories of getting away are more fun then losing every fight to an experienced player.
Logical observation. :cheers:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 25, 2019, 10:51:01 AM
Not really sure how to phrase this but I'll give it by best shot.
This game is a combat game under the umbrella of a WWII open world sim.
Many describe their vision of a fight in the same manner that knights participated in jousting tournaments. Two opponents at opposite ends ready to charge each other utilizing an unspoken code for a chance to claim victory.
The MA isn't representative of that ideology. It's setup as a free world where, in a perfect world, squads would be formed, squads would work together to engage the enemy. Win or lose, that's more in the spirit of the MA.
People are going to Run, Pick and HO and there's no amount of coding or adjustment thats going to change that. As has already been stated, those that perform the three above mentioned actions will just find another ride to do it in.
What we do need, is squad play to pick back up and become the norm of the MA again. Monkey see, Monkey do. People are less likely to act in the aforementioned way if there is a chance of admonishment from squad mates. Channel 200 admonishment means little as you are worlds detached from the opponent.
:salute
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 10:53:41 AM
What we do need, is squad play to pick back up and become the norm of the MA again. Monkey see, Monkey do. People are less likely to act in the aforementioned way if there is a chance of admonishment from squad mates. Channel 200 admonishment means little as you are worlds detached from the opponent.
:salute
Amen. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 11:01:56 AM
The issue with squads is the desire to be in a dominant squad the beats everybody else. This is a normal goal but if you achieve it you have the same issue of not being fun to fight against. Next thing you know people are sneaking bases and driving vehicles to have fun. :devil
Squads are the best way for new players to have fun. I don't propose adding restrictions but I'm always hopeful for enlightened self-interest.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: BLINK on March 25, 2019, 11:06:40 AM
We all want to win. If I can consistently beat somebody then getting away from me is as much of a win as they can get at that time. Those little victories of getting away are more fun then losing every fight to an experienced player.
haha I was going to explain how "win" is different for everyone.....
but you know what....I really dont care to anymore...none of that matters to me....I just want to kill as many as I can....jump in the biggest red dar and kill them all...that is fun to me...the effort....
I am going to try very hard to not care how anyone else plays.... I mean really it is their time.... their game...who the heck am I to try to dictate what they do in a game...
I dont want anyone to tell me how I can play....
and when it comes to running 190's/P51's ...dont chase em...let em go...no biggie...
I am just excited to get in there...been to long......
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 11:12:06 AM
haha I was going to explain how "win" is different for everyone.....
/quote]
:aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 11:15:22 AM
Squads are just groups of players. Being in a squad does not magically make the people in them not run and be good arena citizens (whatever your definition of that may be).
Quote
and when it comes to running 190's/P51's ...dont chase em...let em go...no biggie...
This is a good policy. The downside is sometimes it's the only enemy in the air for 5 sectors. Some people fly late war monsters to run. Others fly them to chase.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 11:22:08 AM
Squads are just groups of players. Being in a squad does not magically make the people in them not run and be good arena citizens (whatever your definition of that may be). ...
If anyone made that claim you'd have a good point. For a new player a squad has a lot of advantages over flying solo.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 11:38:38 AM
If anyone made that claim you'd have a good point. For a new player a squad has a lot of advantages over flying solo.
Even for not so new players.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 11:43:56 AM
You guys just don't get it. Top late war planes that literally get thousands of more kills every tour and have better K/D's at the same time prove that they are over used and abused. Perks do work. If they did not, the temp and the F4U4 would have thousands of more kills. Why are those planes perked? Why do we even have perk planes? When the temp gets 2K less kills than a 190D. I'd much rather have less people flying top E planes like the temp and flying timidly than more of them still flying timidly. I bet you the 190D is better than the Temp. You can play butterfly counterpuncher all day, which is my main style actually, but you have to actually know how to play well before you can be successful at that. Noobs have the hardest time against this. If you are noob and cannot figure out how to get more than 10 perks and quit. The game is obviously not for you. The same 4 planes taking over the MA every month with 10X he kills just isn't as fun as if they had a small perk and most of the players in the arena were in 15+ eny planes. That's where the better fights are. Less top E BNZ planes in arena is better for the arena. The #s prove the 190D with a better K/D at 3K kills than the P51 should be perked.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 25, 2019, 11:54:38 AM
You guys just don't get it. Top late war planes that literally get thousands of more kills every tour and have better K/D's at the same time prove that they are over used and abused. Perks do work. If they did not, the temp and the F4U4 would have thousands of more kills. Why are those planes perked? Why do we even have perk planes? When the temp gets 2K less kills than a 190D. I'd much rather have less people flying top E planes like the temp and flying timidly than more of them still flying timidly. I bet you the 190D is better than the Temp. You can play butterfly counterpuncher all day, which is my main style actually, but you have to actually know how to play well before you can be successful at that. Noobs have the hardest time against this. If you are noob and cannot figure out how to get more than 10 perks and quit. The game is obviously not for you. The same 4 planes taking over the MA every month with 10X he kills just isn't as fun as if they had a small perk and most of the players in the arena were in 15+ eny planes. That's where the better fights are. Less top E BNZ planes in arena is better for the arena. The #s prove the 190D with a better K/D at 3K kills than the P51 should be perked.
It's not that I don't get it. It's that I disagree. You haven't proved anything. You want us to believe it's bad for one plane to be so popular. You have not explained how it's bad for the 190D to enjoy it's current popularity, except that people evade you in it. If you can't accept the choices players make then maybe the game is not for you, or more obviously, maybe there's room for everybody.
BTW the Temp roll rate still sucks doesn't it?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 25, 2019, 01:16:22 PM
Another issue, perking more planes can have a negative effect in the MA by retaining those aircraft for elite players. I myself don't really fly air to air often and don't rack up the perks to pilot some of the perked dogs out there. Perking more rides only removes more aircraft from the main stay of this game and widens the gap between casual cats and those that play this game a bit more seriously.
This doesn't mean the game isn't for me, it just means that this particular aspect is not my bread and butter. I would gather that a large portion of the player base is in the same boat I"m currently rowing. I often do well when I'm online and I further the fight wherever I am.
:salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 01:43:18 PM
It's not that I don't get it. It's that I disagree. You haven't proved anything. You want us to believe it's bad for one plane to be so popular. You have not explained how it's bad for the 190D to enjoy it's current popularity, except that people evade you in it. If you can't accept the choices players make then maybe the game is not for you, or more obviously, maybe there's room for everybody.
BTW the Temp roll rate still sucks doesn't it?
So actual # stats month after month don't prove anything? That's the best proof we have. When one late war plane cannot catch another late war plane even after diving on em, that doesn't prove it's an elite plane? Let's compare the 190D to the Temp. What's the difference?
When these planes are used to cherry pick and run, that's boring stale gameplay. The 190 has a better K/D because it's lack of turn capability means running is the only thing it can do once it loses alt advantage. That is game play that drives people away. More people in 190Ds to catch the 190D does not make the game better. There is literally no reason for perks if they aren't going to be used for what they are supposed to be used for.
Another issue, perking more planes can have a negative effect in the MA by retaining those aircraft for elite players. I myself don't really fly air to air often and don't rack up the perks to pilot some of the perked dogs out there. Perking more rides only removes more aircraft from the main stay of this game and widens the gap between casual cats and those that play this game a bit more seriously.
This doesn't mean the game isn't for me, it just means that this particular aspect is not my bread and butter. I would gather that a large portion of the player base is in the same boat I"m currently rowing. I often do well when I'm online and I further the fight wherever I am.
:salute
How is that different than any other game? Most games I ever played I had to start with weak equipment and work my way up to better equipment. It's part of the "work toward something" approach to gaming that works very well.
If perking a plane literally reduces it's usage by 30%. Why not do that for planes that are top performers every single month? It will not widen any gaps. It will keep more player out of the plane overall, thus making more balanced fights because most elite players will choose a non perked plane. If perking planes did not matter, than the temps and f4u 4-C and would have way more kills. Why don't they?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 01:55:28 PM
How is that different than any other game? Most games I ever played I had to start with weak equipment and work my way up to better equipment. It's part of the "work toward something" approach to gaming that works very well.
I don't think it's great for this kind of game because a novice with an equipment disadvantage is pretty much meat except in very rare cases. Imagine starting out with a Hurri 1 being the only thing you can fly in the MA. People wouldn't stick around for that.
Quote
If perking a plane literally reduces it's usage by 30%. Why not do that for planes that are top performers every single month? It will not widen any gaps. It will keep more player out of the plane overall, thus making more balanced fights because most elite players will choose a non perked plane. If perking planes did not matter, than the temps and f4u 4-C and would have way more kills. Why don't they?
Because the perk-free alternatives aren't that much worse than them. 9 out of 10 times I'd rather have a jug than a Temp. A Nik will work in most situations where an F4U-C is good.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 25, 2019, 02:04:57 PM
Give it a rest, V. It's not going to happen.
Like Fess noted, it will be the same stuff just 75mph slower.
I loved having a rolling planeset in Warbirds. Alas, it was apparently unpopular. Short of that, you're just going to have what you have unless we get a zone-based ENY. And then guys like me will just tank up our 51s and fly in from ten grids away to slaughter the EW rides. Then ppl will whine some more and on it goes.
If you don't like chasing Doras and losing the foot race then fly Doras. That's basically where we are now.
I fly 51s because of the vis and my ability to get away when it becomes 12 v 1 like just happened to me ten mins ago. Hey, I got two and an assist. In the real world I'd have a medal.
:rofl
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 02:09:24 PM
I don't think it's great for this kind of game because a novice with an equipment disadvantage is pretty much meat except in very rare cases. Imagine starting out with a Hurri 1 being the only thing you can fly in the MA. People wouldn't stick around for that.
Because the perk-free alternatives aren't that much worse than them. 9 out of 10 times I'd rather have a jug than a Temp. A Nik will work in most situations where an F4U-C is good.
Wiley.
I agree with you to an extent. Starting off with early war planes wouldn't be suitable. They would still be able to use most of the late war planes, and even the P51, since it's the main ride. But even still "war thunder" didn't give me their top 190D to zoom and run away and spray and pray with 500 Cannon's. You will notice that most elites in AH do not abuse perked planes because they don't want to be considered to having to resort to perk planes to win. It's a psyhcological thing. By reducing the advanced planes for all players, and attaching a small perk, it would push more players into planes that are more balanced in the MA. Right now, you fly to a furball or roll into a furball and it's only Yak3s, 190s, and La7s. Even if a new player gets into these planes, they aren't going to have a change against players in the same plane that are better than them. Less elites would be in those planes if they were perked, which would be more beneficial to new players, especially when they save up enough perks to be able to fly them. Spending 5-20 perks to fly the best planes shouldn't be that big of a deal. They have over saturated the arenas.
I just want to see the flight stats between the 190D and the tempest to see exactly why the temp is perked when the 190D isn't
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 02:42:45 PM
I guess my point is, it seems to me your issue is more with behavior than the equipment. No matter what you perk, it's just not going to change the behavior. People will still BnZ and run as long as there are planes with different performance in the game. Even in the same plane, people will BnZ and run.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 25, 2019, 02:46:49 PM
I guess my point is, it seems to me your issue is more with behavior than the equipment. No matter what you perk, it's just not going to change the behavior. People will still BnZ and run as long as there are planes with different performance in the game. Even in the same plane, people will BnZ and run.
Wiley.
+1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
I guess my point is, it seems to me your issue is more with behavior than the equipment. No matter what you perk, it's just not going to change the behavior. People will still BnZ and run as long as there are planes with different performance in the game. Even in the same plane, people will BnZ and run.
Wiley.
No, my issue is with the planes performance clearly outmatching the rest of the planes by statistics. Again, what is the point of perking planes to begin with? Let the noobs just fly free 262s. What's the difference? Why is the temp perked and the 190D not?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 02:59:03 PM
...Because that much speed with 2x20mm and 2x13mm is nowhere near as good as 4x Hispano. Also it's not as user-friendly as the Temp if you try to turn it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Spikes on March 25, 2019, 03:08:38 PM
I think the main reason of perking is to stop the spam of something. It doesn't work for the T-35 85 because the price is too low and GV perks are very abundant and how good the T-34 85 actually is for the price. I think some people would think twice about rolling something like the Yak-3, P-51D, or Fw 190D-9 if there was a nominal cost to it (even if it were 5 perks as a base).
With the question of Tempest vs. D9, the Temp is pretty much better in every way...it's faster, can turn better,, can accelerate better, and has a more lethal gun pack.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
I think the main reason of perking is to stop the spam of something. It doesn't work for the T-35 85 because the price is too low and GV perks are very abundant and how good the T-34 85 actually is for the price. I think some people would think twice about rolling something like the Yak-3, P-51D, or Fw 190D-9 if there was a nominal cost to it (even if it were 5 perks as a base).
With the question of Tempest vs. D9, the Temp is pretty much better in every way...it's faster, can turn better,, can accelerate better, and has a more lethal gun pack.
I completely agree with your first paragraph. It really would help, especially for the T-35. I just don't think these top MA fighters are making the MA great if that is all everyone has to fly just to compete. It's obvious that easy mode planes are too abundant and thus making game play unbalanced in furballs
I'd really like to see performance indicators for the temp Vs 190. I know 4 hispanoes are pretty much it's best advantage over the 190d, but I am just not so sure the 190D is slower or accels slowers and the 190D definitely dives to a faster speed. I think they both turn relatively the same, would depend on the pilot for that. I'd also like to compare the P51D to the 190D considering thr P51D doesn't have cannons at all, accels much slower and climbs much slower. In combat the only advantage the 51 has is turn rate and distance.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Spikes on March 25, 2019, 03:46:48 PM
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Check the Tempy and 190D and Submit
The issue is it ends up being a slippery slope. Do you perk the Spit 16 because it's easy to fly? What about the La 7 because it is fast, or the N1K because it too has 4 cannons? Then there's the P-47M...
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: bustr on March 25, 2019, 03:47:17 PM
Since you are arguing to Hitech using yourself as the gold standard of MA air combat play. Oh enlightened one, what does he do with the 90% of his customers after you get what you want? From how they use the planes you want perked, they don't want to be your cannon fodder, and don't care about spending any more time than logging in and going piu, piu, piu. No one goes to the DA anymore to learn ACM, and most just fly fast, HO, run away and repeat.
What does Hitech do to keep those customers happy when "you" take away the rides they have always relied on for their $14.95?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: waystin2 on March 25, 2019, 04:38:12 PM
It is time for Hitech to evaluate the usage and impact of certain planes and vehicles in the Melee arena. Do some of these planes and vehicles deserve perks? No. Lower ENY's? Absolutely. :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
The issue is it ends up being a slippery slope. Do you perk the Spit 16 because it's easy to fly? What about the La 7 because it is fast, or the N1K because it too has 4 cannons? Then there's the P-47M...
Looking at the charts the Temp is a tad faster in eccelleration, that's really all it has besides guns. With wep (which last a long time in German planes) the 190 climbs better than the Temp at 10-15K. The 190D with wep is faster than the P51D at low alt and at 15-20K. Dive speed is not shown. So clearly the 190D is just as capable as the Temp in the right hands and shows significantly better stats than the P51 in most categories with wep. Planes that have the #1 best advantage of being able to accel away while being able to out run most every plane in the game should have a perk. Even the La7 almost has the same top speed as the Temp, has 3 cannons, and almost the same Accel. In the MA speed and acceleration with decent guns is the single best advantage in the game. When great sticks take advantage of that over new players. They have no chance.
Since you are arguing to Hitech using yourself as the gold standard of MA air combat play. Oh enlightened one, what does he do with the 90% of his customers after you get what you want? From how they use the planes you want perked, they don't want to be your cannon fodder, and don't care about spending any more time than logging in and going piu, piu, piu. No one goes to the DA anymore to learn ACM, and most just fly fast, HO, run away and repeat.
What does Hitech do to keep those customers happy when "you" take away the rides they have always relied on for their $14.95?
13 years of top level MA experience in AH gives me a lot of insight on the fights in Aces High. I know how the planes work and how people fly better than Hitech in the MA. That's just the truth. I'm trying to show him with stats that the 190D and Yak3 and La7 have driven more people away rather than encourage people because they are tired of constantly only fighting these planes.
You think customers will leave because they have to pay a perk to fly the easiest fastest planes, but won't leave or have left already because too many easy fast planes have saturated the environment?
No one goes to the DA any more because they don't have to. They can simply hit X and extend away from someone who is trying to challenge themselves in a regular plane. By reducing the usage of top speed planes you reduce the HO, Run, fly fast type of fighting to a more furball oriented type of fighting where people would actually have to learn ACM to be successful. Think of the difference in fights between the WW1 arena and Jets. WW1 Arena has fast action furballs while the Jets are more drawn out and further distances. It's the same thing with the MA.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lusche on March 25, 2019, 04:56:00 PM
As usual:
(https://i.imgur.com/wHkXarW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LbDweV6.png)
And as there seems to be some argument about the 190D, here in detail the combat results of said fighter vs some other popular mainstream fighters in the MA (2018):
(https://i.imgur.com/wx02r4P.png)
Have fun :bolt:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 25, 2019, 04:57:49 PM
So... Other than "more", what is the cutoff for acceleration and speed that merits a perk, and why is the line drawn there, and why will it result in superior gameplay?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 05:26:25 PM
So... Other than "more", what is the cutoff for acceleration and speed that merits a perk, and why is the line drawn there, and why will it result in superior gameplay?
Wiley.
The only reason I would not perk the 109K is because of the 1 hard to aim and only 65 cannons, though it should be an 8 eny plans. Also, the F4u1a is mostly made up of a few top vet fighters. It's a great plane, but it's acceleration and climb arent like the spit16, la7, Yak3 and 190. I think the hogs are much harder to fly than these planes. It's crazy to me how many kills the Nik has being that it's very slow, but cannons do matter. I think the Nik and F4u are in a good spot eny wise. The 190D can run and climb from both no problem, which gives it the advantage in the MA.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 25, 2019, 06:01:08 PM
So... Other than "more", what is the cutoff for acceleration and speed that merits a perk, and why is the line drawn there, and why will it result in superior gameplay?
Wiley.
From 20 and below (talking fighters). Every point underneath should be 1/2 perk. Mid war planes will be the main game whiles keeping some use to early war planes. You can still fly the easy planes but it will cost you a perk or 2. Or even free if eny is in your favor. Keep in mind flying higher eny planes will earn you more perks.
I never understood a perk system for a total of 5 planes (excluding spit 14 and TA 152). Perks are meaningless to me, i have enough anyway, enough to fly 262's after 1 day of flying a I16 or mossie...
However to introduce this after so many years will make players riot... But than again there must be balance :neener:
DutchVII
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 06:15:45 PM
So actual # stats month after month don't prove anything? ...
That's correct. The stats tell us usage and K/D. They tell us which choices are popular, but the stats don't prove anything about the quality of game play. They don't tell us what needs to change. They don't tell us what the effect of change would be.
13 years of top level MA experience in AH gives me a lot of insight on the fights in Aces High. I know how the planes work and how people fly better than Hitech in the MA. That's just the truth.
Hitech just runs the company ... oh and wrote all the code, and made all the flight models, and only has 30+ years experience creating flight sims, and does aerobatics in a real airplane. Don't be too hard on him. He lacks your personal experience. :D
Here's a thought. You know Hitech wrote the original Warbirds and it's struggling now despite listening to their expert players and changing to their preferences. Turn Warbirds around with your good ideas and you will gain massive credibility. :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 08:04:49 PM
That's correct. The stats tell us usage and K/D. They tell us which choices are popular, but the stats don't prove anything about the quality of game play. They don't tell us what needs to change. They don't tell us what the effect of change would be.
Hitech just runs the company ... oh and wrote all the code, and made all the flight models, and only has 30+ years experience creating flight sims, and does aerobatics in a real airplane. Don't be too hard on him. He lacks your personal experience. :D
Here's a thought. You know Hitech wrote the original Warbirds and it's struggling now despite listening to their expert players and changing to their preferences. Turn Warbirds around with your good ideas and you will gain massive credibility. :aok
Hitech is probably pretty much better at everything else in the world than I am, besides sports. Haha. But I feel like him not being able to play the actual game very much like i have makes it hard for him to see how these over flown planes have really just become nuisances. I wouldn't be griping about something I didn't think was important.
The type of changes I really look for are mechanical where virtually no coding would even have to be implemented. If I had played Warbirds, i might know, but AH is really the only fighter game online that I have ever played. I enjoy playing because of the open atmosphere. But we should recognize that top E planes really do make a difference in the MA setting when that is what the majority of fighter pilot have to fly in just to compete.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 25, 2019, 08:57:46 PM
I understand you're sincere and mean well and you might come up with some great ideas. :aok
The problem with your argument is that it's not generally accepted that the 190D is causing a problem by not being perked.
Also the idea that perking it would change game play is speculation. You may be right but you haven't shown that.
In any case it's the wish list. The discussion doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 25, 2019, 10:29:51 PM
I understand you're sincere and mean well and you might come up with some great ideas. :aok
The problem with your argument is that it's not generally accepted that the 190D is causing a problem by not being perked.
Also the idea that perking it would change game play is speculation. You may be right but you haven't shown that.
In any case it's the wish list. The discussion doesn't change anything.
The 190D practically has a 1:1 K:D with the top performing planes in AH. Apparently also bombers hate it... The 190D generally has the 3rd most kills every tour. The 190D is an E fighter exactly like the temp. E fignting is a slower method of fighting normally already having the E Advantage over the opponent. To many top E fighters are boring to fight.
The data is in the #s that perking them would have an impact on gameplay by looking at perked plane usages. Much lower.
Why can't you "generally accept" statistical reference? I'm not the only one here that thinks there needs to be some kind of overall eny adjustment.
Reducing usage of top aircraft makes an enormous difference in the level of fights. After all, you wouldn't want to play where everyone is only flying temps and 262s.
As usual, don't know until you try it but i believe my arguements are better than yours and make more rational sense. :airplane:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: bozon on March 26, 2019, 02:45:10 AM
We all want to win. If I can consistently beat somebody then getting away from me is as much of a win as they can get at that time. Those little victories of getting away are more fun then losing every fight to an experienced player.
The only caveat being that an overemphasis on short-term 'victories' inevitably obstructs long-term progression of your ACM. If you find a player who can beat you consistently it's well worth the investment of multiple deaths to understand why - just as a counterpoint.
You guys just don't get it. Top late war planes that literally get thousands of more kills every tour and have better K/D's at the same time prove that they are over used and abused.
I think it merely evidences the validity of real-world design progression in fighter aircraft moving away from manoeuvrability and more towards higher speeds and energy-based tactics. As was already apparent by the Spanish Civil War. The faster plane can dictate the fight. Sounds a bit like you're asking HTC to do that for you.
I'm just curious how you'd answer this question Bustr: The only time I've ever fought you (if memory serves) I was in a Bf109G-14 immediately after another fight in a poor energy state and you were in a Spit8 and I out-turned you and killed you. My question is: did you ever think to ask me how, ask me to show you, or otherwise want to go with me to the DA to learn the (intermediate) ACM I used to do that?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Shuffler on March 26, 2019, 05:24:23 AM
I'm just curious how you'd answer this question Bustr: The only time I've ever fought you (if memory serves) I was in a Bf109G-14 immediately after another fight in a poor energy state and you were in a Spit8 and I out-turned you and killed you. My question is: did you ever think to ask me how, ask me to show you, or otherwise want to go with me to the DA to learn the (intermediate) ACM I used to do that?
He was probably taking notes on the terrain for his next release he was working on. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lusche on March 26, 2019, 07:39:52 AM
According to Lusche’s charts seems like the Yak3 is a much bigger problem than the 190D. Amazing stats for a plane with “weak” guns and limited ammo.
Though I would call that more a "problem" than a problem ;), it still has only 6% of all fighter on fighter kills (even less when considering all A2A kill). But then, I find this whole topic rather esoteric at this point in time. But that's just like my opinion, man. :banana:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 10:42:57 AM
The only caveat being that an overemphasis on short-term 'victories' inevitably obstructs long-term progression of your ACM. If you find a player who can beat you consistently it's well worth the investment of multiple deaths to understand why - just as a counterpoint.
I think it merely evidences the validity of real-world design progression in fighter aircraft moving away from manoeuvrability and more towards higher speeds and energy-based tactics. As was already apparent by the Spanish Civil War. The faster plane can dictate the fight. Sounds a bit like you're asking HTC to do that for you.
Respectfully Violator it looks like you're a bit hung up on score or results.
Of course it does. Having the fastest plane was the #1 concern in real war. Speed is the #1 best advantage in air combat. E planes with alt and speed advantage was the key. Thats why Jets were so much more effective. It's common sense. I am asking Hitech to reduce usage by lightly perking a few more of the top planes that dictate the majority of all air combat in AH. I am proving that usage will be lower based on Tempest, F4U1c and F4u4 results of being perked. Statistical reference is the only way to look at all of the fighters based on K/D and player usage. I am not looking at score. I am looking at overall statistics of usage with K/D. Reducing the usage of these planes with proven methods of perking will bring better fights to the MA because people will have to utilize greater tactics than just being able to extend lazily away because they have a super later war plane that was designed purely for survival.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
Of course it does. Having the fastest plane was the #1 concern in real war. Speed is the #1 best advantage in air combat. E planes with alt and speed advantage was the key. Thats why Jets were so much more effective. It's common sense. I am asking Hitech to reduce usage by lightly perking a few more of the top planes that dictate the majority of all air combat in AH. I am proving that usage will be lower based on Tempest, F4U1c and F4u4 results of being perked. Statistical reference is the only way to look at all of the fighters based on K/D and player usage. I am not looking at score. I am looking at overall statistics of usage with K/D. Reducing the usage of these planes with proven methods of perking will bring better fights to the MA because people will have to utilize greater tactics than just being able to extend lazily away because they have a super later war plane that was designed purely for survival.
And I’ll prove their usage will be lower via unsubscribing.
There may be a tweak needed, but this ain’t it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 01:03:35 PM
And I’ll prove their usage will be lower via unsubscribing.
There may be a tweak needed, but this ain’t it.
There's probably more proof of people leaving because of these planes rather than by perking them, and saying players will unsubscribe because they have to pay a small perk to fly an easy late war super plane is actually the real baseless claim.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 26, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
since they are not perked, there is zero evidence that it will work.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 01:24:03 PM
since they are not perked, there is zero evidence that it will work.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But referring to other planes that are perked prove that perks do work. If not than why aren't more people flying temps, chogs, and 4hogs? There is solid evidence that perking the Chog did reduce it's usage. That's proof by reference.
What is the point of perking planes then?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 01:24:14 PM
There's probably more proof of people leaving because of these planes rather than by perking them, and saying players will unsubscribe because they have to pay a small perk to fly an easy late war super plane is actually the real baseless claim.
Well, the day the 51 gets perked I am gone, and I know a few who will go with me.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 26, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
But referring to other planes that are perked prove that perks do work. If not than why aren't more people flying temps, chogs, and 4hogs? There is solid evidence that perking the Chog did reduce it's usage. That's proof by reference.
What is the point of perking planes then?
But it stands to reason that perking can have a domino effect. There will always be a plane to take the newly perked rides spot in the non perked category.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 01:40:00 PM
But it stands to reason that perking can have a domino effect. There will always be a plane to take the newly perked rides spot in the non perked category.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I disagree. Sure players will get into the La5, the Yak9u, spit8, 190a5 and the P47m but those planes don't come any where close to the level of the Spit16, Yak3, 190D or the La7. Most planes as shown from Lusches stats show that the majority of regular fighters fit into a giant furball on the chart (ironic), which means these planes are most closely related in performance metrically speaking. This means the fights will be more balanced by reducing the usage of the higher kills planes.
Well, the day the 51 gets perked I am gone, and I know a few who will go with me.
Why? Are you not good enough to earn enough perks in a P51B after 2 sorties to afford flying a better than average plane? I don't think the P51 should be perked, but that statement seems childesh.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 26, 2019, 01:50:34 PM
I disagree. Sure players will get into the La5, the Yak9u, spit8, 190a5 and the P47m but those planes don't come any where close to the level of the Spit16, Yak3, 190D or the La7. Most planes as shown from Lusches stats show that the majority of regular fighters fit into a giant furball on the chart (ironic), which means these planes are most closely related in performance metrically speaking. This means the fights will be more balanced by reducing the usage of the higher kills planes.
Why? Are you not good enough to earn enough perks in a P51B after 2 sorties to afford flying a better than average plane? I don't think the P51 should be perked, but that statement seems childesh.
I’m already annoyed with ENY. Throw perks into the mix and forget it. I have limited time to play these days and I don’t feel like wasting it trying to work my way up to the plane I want to fly. You think runners are bad now? Just wait until your perk dream becomes reality. :rofl
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 26, 2019, 01:54:30 PM
Eny should for sure be adjusted. Perking anymore planes just isn’t the best idea. I don’t see how people Running from you bothers you so much Violater. Your argument keeps going to behavior rather than the planes. Bad players will still find the fastest ride and will still run from a better pilot no matter what you put them in. Your idea only hampers people who enjoy flying those planes.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 26, 2019, 01:54:56 PM
I disagree. Sure players will get into the La5, the Yak9u, spit8, 190a5 and the P47m but those planes don't come any where close to the level of the Spit16, Yak3, 190D or the La7. Most planes as shown from Lusches stats show that the majority of regular fighters fit into a giant furball on the chart (ironic), which means these planes are most closely related in performance metrically speaking. This means the fights will be more balanced by reducing the usage of the higher kills planes.
Why? Are you not good enough to earn enough perks in a P51B after 2 sorties to afford flying a better than average plane? I don't think the P51 should be perked, but that statement seems childesh.
The yak3/spixteen guys will go to the LA5. The speed guys will go to the fastest unperked jug or the 51B or the 109K. My money would be on the 109K because it's more versatile. They will continue to run, and the LA5 will become the new common furball plane.
And the newly perked planes will be flown even more timidly.
How is this an improvement again?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 26, 2019, 02:01:01 PM
I disagree. Sure players will get into the La5, the Yak9u, spit8, 190a5 and the P47m but those planes don't come any where close to the level of the Spit16, Yak3, 190D or the La7. Most planes as shown from Lusches stats show that the majority of regular fighters fit into a giant furball on the chart (ironic), which means these planes are most closely related in performance metrically speaking. This means the fights will be more balanced by reducing the usage of the higher kills planes.
ah, see that is where the domino effect starts. With those planes out of common rotation, new planes will fill that void as the Apex predator of the free plane category. This will, albiet not at first, create the same dilemma that you originally referred to. They may all fit in to the "furball" range of the data posted but the more players use the 5 aircraft that you mentioned, the better they get the more you will see a change to that data and you will find that the new apex predators will separate themselves from the flock and this topic
Quote
Please perk or reduce the <insert aircraft design series>
will come again, and again, and again. It's very cyclic.
:salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Mongoose on March 26, 2019, 02:11:57 PM
ah, see that is where the domino effect starts. With those planes out of common rotation, new planes will fill that void as the Apex predator of the free plane category. This will, albiet not at first, create the same dilemma that you originally referred to.
Well said. :salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: nrshida on March 26, 2019, 02:21:04 PM
Of course it does. Having the fastest plane was the #1 concern in real war. Speed is the #1 best advantage in air combat.
You're old-school AH brah. That time has passed. Only engaging with advantage is the #1 best advantage in Aces High now. As the average skill level has dropped the risk-assesment level has inversely elevated. They'd probably fly even more timidly if you perked them.
HTC isn't going to do anything. It's up to you. :salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 02:31:53 PM
ah, see that is where the domino effect starts. With those planes out of common rotation, new planes will fill that void as the Apex predator of the free plane category. This will, albiet not at first, create the same dilemma that you originally referred to. They may all fit in to the "furball" range of the data posted but the more players use the 5 aircraft that you mentioned, the better they get the more you will see a change to that data and you will find that the new apex predators will separate themselves from the flock and this topic will come again, and again, and again. It's very cyclic.
:salute
I don't believe it would start that effect because these top planes have more of an advantage than 90% of the rest of the fighter base. If more top planes are perked, other planes would fill the void. Even though they are still good planes, they would still not be as performance based therefore you would see a lot more balance in the kill #s per plane because more planes in that furball zone would be utilized. You would still have planes like the spit8 and Ki84, and TA152 but they would not have the same performance of flying the Yak3 or spit16 or 190D, therefore you would see more of a balance relative among most planes that would create a much better fighting atmosphere where players couldn't just hit X and extend way when someone jumps their 6.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 02:35:12 PM
You're old-school AH brah. That time has passed. Only engaging with advantage is the #1 best advantage in Aces High now. As the average skill level has dropped the risk-assesment level has inversely elevated. They'd probably fly even more timidly if you perked them.
HTC isn't going to do anything. It's up to you. :salute
They might fly more timidly, but stats show us there would be far less of them, which is actually better.
Remember when the Spit5 was the top popular plane in AH? It actually got the majority of players to fight because they couldn't run. Now we have planes like the Yak3 and spit16 that can simply run if they lose advantage. They no longer really need to learn air combat to survive.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: nrshida on March 26, 2019, 02:45:01 PM
They no longer really need to learn air combat to survive.
Yeah buddy I agree. With the proximity of bases, ship ack, 88-mm, supporting ground vehicles and no cultural support to fight that's where AH is at. I'm as sorry as you about it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: nrshida on March 26, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
No one goes to the DA anymore to learn ACM, and most just fly fast, HO, run away and repeat.
I've noticed you tend to not answer when challenged Bustr. I honestly hold no grudge with you at all. I really don't get why you wouldn't ask that day. I'd have spent an hour with you immediately and taught you. I'd have told no one and have treated you respectfully. I just don't get why you wouldn't want to know.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2019, 02:52:28 PM
I've noticed you tend to not answer when challenged Bustr. I honestly hold no grudge with you at all. I really don't get why you wouldn't ask that day. I'd have spent an hour with you immediately and taught you. I'd have told no one and have treated you respectfully. I just don't get why you wouldn't want to know.
^ Acknowledge my superiority and beg me to be your sensai post. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 26, 2019, 04:00:36 PM
As usual, don't know until you try it but i believe my arguements are better than yours and make more rational sense. :airplane:
I didn't make an argument. I just pointed out that a premise for your argument was opinion so the conclusion does not logically follow from the usage statistics.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you have an opinion and a preference and a wish. :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: atlau on March 26, 2019, 04:48:47 PM
Perk no.
Change eny yes for d9 and yak3.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 04:53:22 PM
I didn't make an argument. I just pointed out that a premise for your argument was opinion so the conclusion does not logically follow from the usage statistics.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you have an opinion and a preference and a wish. :aok
The 190D has a better overall K/D and gets 1000 more kills every month than other top planes like the Yak3, and La7 which get 1000 more kills typically than a temp and F4u4. The 190D gets 700-800 more kills than a Ki84 typically, (which is another plane that needs an ENY reduction). The 190D gets 2500 more kills than a P47m with the same K/D. That's a lot of kills! Being that the 190D is an E fighter. That's a lot of bomber killing and mostly high alt picking and extending away. They can escape fights easily which means they can get more kills. This is not an opinion.
My conclusion is that the 190D and a few others need to be perked to reduce usage in order to incentivize players to choose less high performance planes that don't even get 700-800 kills a tour. This would bring some balance back to the MA regarding stale gameplay fighting the same top fighter planes over and over again which dominate the airspace. Those less used planes are relative to the same performance metrically and would create more balance fighting in the MA. Even if some of the other decent planes increased in kills. They still would be easier to fight than the top performing planes right now simply because they don't have as much performance. It's hardly an opinion.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 05:09:45 PM
It's a conspiracy! :old: :banana: :bolt:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 05:10:53 PM
Oh, and I'll take a 51 any day over a 190 for slaying bombers.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 26, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
Perking the 190D just stops players with no perks from flying it. That's fact.
Perking the 190D will reduce it's usage by players with perks. That's an opinion that seems likely.
Reducing 190D usage will improve game play in the MA. That's an opinion with no foundation.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 26, 2019, 05:50:25 PM
Yes. By all means limit the choices a PAYING customer has even further. That'll work.
That's exactly what is happening - limited choices. The difference is that the limited choices are arrived at via gameplay. That is what Violator is hoping to correct. He wants the gameplay altered so that there is more choice available in what is both competitive and free of a perk cost.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 08:21:11 PM
That's exactly what is happening - limited choices. The difference is that the limited choices are arrived at via gameplay. That is what Violator is hoping to correct. He wants the gameplay altered so that there is more choice available in what is both competitive and free of a perk cost.
Sorry. Not buying it. *Force* people out of 190s and 51s... Game over.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Spikes on March 26, 2019, 08:26:37 PM
Sorry. Not buying it. *Force* people out of 190s and 51s... Game over.
It's not forcing people out of anything. The people who feel a 190 or P-51 is worth the small perk price will still use it and probably do quite well in it.
It's not forcing people out of flying something any more than ENY forces you out of it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 08:28:05 PM
It's not forcing people out of anything. The people who feel a 190 or P-51 is worth the small perk price will still use it and probably do quite well in it.
It's not forcing people out of flying something any more than ENY forces you out of it.
ENY forces you out. Then perks compound the problem. It’s a stupid stupid STUPID idea. People will leave in droves.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Devil 505 on March 26, 2019, 08:31:15 PM
As opposed to the mass appeal offered in the stagnant MA found today?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Mongoose on March 26, 2019, 08:35:31 PM
This is like telling a pitcher in baseball that he can't pitch any ball over 80 mph. Ban any pitcher who can pitch over 80 mph unless you are two runs down. Because the batters are complaining. :bhead
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 26, 2019, 08:37:33 PM
This is like telling a pitcher in baseball that he can't pitch any ball over 80 mph. Ban any pitcher who can pitch over 80 mph unless you are two runs down. Because the batters are complaining.
Heh. I like the analogy.
Heavily perking 262s makes sense. Lightly perking Tempests and F4U4s makes sense; they're clearly significantly superior to the others in the plane set. (I've never understood perking the F4U1C - that plane is a pig.) Beyond that, you're just tinkering. Lusche's charts seem to show that the Doras aren't being used more than a few other planes; they're just getting more kills than they used to. Really, who cares? Let them run away. It's far more challenging to fight the Spixteens and Yakcubers.
- oldman
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: flippz on March 26, 2019, 10:28:20 PM
^ Acknowledge my superiority and beg me to be your sensai post. :D
no that's not what hes after there. shida spent time with me and showed me stuff very respectively. I also seen two players change from low tier flyers to top tier fighters in weeks working with shida. and I an willing to bet that anyone that ever pmed shida and said "how did you do that?" got an invite to the da and was shown the move.
and he is a very good fighter and teacher and some one to be respected
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2019, 10:43:55 PM
no that's not what hes after there. shida spent time with me and showed me stuff very respectively. I also seen two players change from low tier flyers to top tier fighters in weeks working with shida. and I an willing to bet that anyone that ever pmed shida and said "how did you do that?" got an invite to the da and was shown the move.
and he is a very good fighter and teacher and some one to be respected
Are you attempting to say that Shida wondering aloud on the board why Bustr didn't seek his tutelage (mentioned repeatedly while Bustr doesn't engage him) is merely exhibiting a character trait of someone with mature, calm humility and not someone acting passive-aggressive on the forum? Huh. Difference being that you asked and Bustr wasn't interested so Shida decided to pester him. Respect worthy. :old:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Devil 505 on March 26, 2019, 11:36:56 PM
Yet beat the OP like a drum. Hence this thread. :rolleyes:
(Dirtbag? No. Just very good at slaying bullies. Not saying Violator is a bully, btw.)
Very much so a dirtbag. followed players around just to kill them on purpose. Had accounts set up on the other sides just to grief. Very much so a dirtbag.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 27, 2019, 07:41:43 AM
Imagine that, a thread devolving in to a chest thumping pile of nonsense... .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2019, 09:17:31 AM
Heavily perking 262s makes sense. Lightly perking Tempests and F4U4s makes sense; they're clearly significantly superior to the others in the plane set. (I've never understood perking the F4U1C - that plane is a pig.) Beyond that, you're just tinkering. Lusche's charts seem to show that the Doras aren't being used more than a few other planes; they're just getting more kills than they used to. Really, who cares? Let them run away. It's far more challenging to fight the Spixteens and Yakcubers.
- oldman
We are all so proud of the open sandbox game play we have. Funny how it turns out we are fighting the same half dozen planes all the time. Not so big a sand box really.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Oldman731 on March 27, 2019, 09:51:01 AM
We are all so proud of the open sandbox game play we have. Funny how it turns out we are fighting the same half dozen planes all the time. Not so big a sand box really.
I think this has always been so.
- oldman
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
We have the biggest sandbox in flight sims. Some toys are more popular than others. Not using all the sandbox toys equally is not an actual problem. It's OK to have favorites.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 10:10:45 AM
Skyyr only the flew the 190 and La7 most of the time because he knew they were the fastest planes that could easily escape trouble when ever someone grabbed his 6 in the MA. A perfect example of a decent stick with a lack of defense skills having to use easy mode planes to feel good about himself and abuse the community.
If those planes were perked. Skyyr would have been a totally different stick. I'm sure he would have moved to the Ki84 though.
I am simply trying to ask that overly used and high performance planes be taken down a notch by perking a few more planes. The spit16 is still a 5 eny plane and gets a tremendous amount of kills. The Yak3 is almost the same thing, but it can accel and get away faster basically trading the spits guns for a bit more agility and strength. The Yak3 is also hard to see, which makes it tough to shoot. If there was more of an incentive to get players into less dominate late war planes and mid war planes. The level of fights and furballs would actually increase and noob players would have an easier time because they wouldn't have to fight against so many Uber planes all of the time.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: atlau on March 27, 2019, 10:14:19 AM
I dont think perking is the answer. The yak3 and d9 are not nearly as good as the u4 or tempest in the MA environment. Let people use them but adjust the ENY so that they are limited when number get imbalanced.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 10:16:10 AM
Skyrr flew the D pony a lot, as well. Perking that would go over like a lead balloon. What are we up to now? Dora, Lala, Pony .... not the Frank, though. :old:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Spikes on March 27, 2019, 10:21:32 AM
The issue is ENY should be a judgement of the plane's capability overall. Take away the ord from a P-51D and is it really 5 ENY? It's fast, has decent guns, and doesn't turn that great.
Is the D9 really that good to have 5 ENY? It's fast, can carry 1 bomb, and really can't turn well but can stick stir like crazy.
I think it would be interesting to take those few planes and perk them at say, a base of 2 or 3, for a month, and see what happens. But, as stated, people would get upset and we already have a fragile enough player base.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2019, 10:26:18 AM
The level of fights and furballs would actually increase and noob players would have an easier time because they wouldn't have to fight against so many Uber planes all of the time.
A runner in a jug or a 51B is still a runner. Acceleration doesn't mean all that much to the one pass haul bellybutton crowd. Your claim is dubious at best.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 10:27:28 AM
Skyyr only the flew the 190 and La7 most of the time because he knew they were the fastest planes that could easily escape trouble when ever someone grabbed his 6 in the MA. A perfect example of a decent stick with a lack of defense skills having to use easy mode planes to feel good about himself and abuse the community.
If those planes were perked. Skyyr would have been a totally different stick. I'm sure he would have moved to the Ki84 though.
I am simply trying to ask that overly used and high performance planes be taken down a notch by perking a few more planes. The spit16 is still a 5 eny plane and gets a tremendous amount of kills. The Yak3 is almost the same thing, but it can accel and get away faster basically trading the spits guns for a bit more agility and strength. The Yak3 is also hard to see, which makes it tough to shoot. If there was more of an incentive to get players into less dominate late war planes and mid war planes. The level of fights and furballs would actually increase and noob players would have an easier time because they wouldn't have to fight against so many Uber planes all of the time.
Revise all the history you like, Violator. The truth remains. The guy could fly any ride well. He was certainly not dependent on 7s and 190s. I guess you’ve never seen his films where he’s outnumbered 5:1 with people on his six and winds up killing them all. That was no fluke.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 10:32:57 AM
Skyrr flew the D pony a lot, as well. Perking that would go over like a lead balloon. What are we up to now? Dora, Lala, Pony .... not the Frank, though. :old:
And as noted above by Ciaphas.......once we perk those we will have to perk more.... Soon we will all be flying 109E and Spit I with everything else perked.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 10:33:32 AM
Skyyr only the flew the 190 and La7 most of the time because he knew they were the fastest planes that could easily escape trouble when ever someone grabbed his 6 in the MA. A perfect example of a decent stick with a lack of defense skills having to use easy mode planes to feel good about himself and abuse the community.
This is a perfect example of self-interest and butt hurt. It seems more honest than the " it's for the good of the game" argument.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 27, 2019, 10:50:21 AM
All those “skills” skyyr had still never won a tournament or a TOC. Speaks volumes ;)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 10:54:49 AM
If I only flew the 190D seriously, id be #1 fighter every month.
Skyyr did actually prove that it was a nuisance plane. So I'll give him that.
It’s obvious this is all about your ego.
If Skyyr wanted to he could have been #1 every month, too. And not just in a Dora. (We’ve already gone over how he beat you in every metric, including percentage of tours as #1. Your response is always the same, “I wasn’t taking it seriously.” #Excuses)
FLS nailed it.
Quote
"I have to fly my easy high performance plane or I'll quit"
That's the level we are at in our weak society. Pandering to losers never yields strong results.
“I have to have my seals to club or I quit!”
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Shuffler on March 27, 2019, 11:00:35 AM
Perk the P-40N
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2019, 11:03:47 AM
That's the level we are at in our weak society. Pandering to losers never yields strong results.
Ok. I will type this slowly so hopefully it will register. Not everybody plays video games to be the bestest competitor. In fact, people who play video games to be the bestest competitor are usually a tiny minority.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 11:05:25 AM
Ok. I will type this slowly so hopefully it will register. Not everybody plays video games to be the bestest competitor. In fact, people who play video games to be the bestest competitor are usually a tiny minority.
^ :aok :cheers: :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 11:13:37 AM
If Skyyr wanted to he could have been #1 every month, too. And not just in a Dora. (We’ve already gone over how he beat you in every metric, including percentage of tours as #1. Your response is always the same, “I wasn’t taking it seriously.” #Excuses)
FLS nailed it.
“I have to have my seals to club or I quit!”
No he didn't and no he couldn't. Lmfao. I have 2 toc champ wins and #1 more times than him in more planes. :neener:
At least I can back up my arguements with actual game play results.
Ok. I will type this slowly so hopefully it will register. Not everybody plays video games to be the bestest competitor. In fact, people who play video games to be the bestest competitor are usually a tiny minority.
Wiley.
As long as they can fly their top performing super late war plane :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 11:18:15 AM
As long as they can fly their top performing super late war plane :aok
Or merely their favorite plane(s), whether they win or lose. Some players just wanna play a WWII pilot persona, not necessarily Bong or Boyington, themselves :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 11:20:14 AM
No he didn't and no he couldn't. Lmfao. I have 2 toc champ wins and #1 more times than him in more planes. :neener:
At least I can back up my arguements with actual game play results.
Is a plane "extending" and never coming back losing a fight? Wow..
As long as they can fly their top performing super late war plane :aok
I already posted the stats in another thread. You’re wrong. But keep bleating.
He actually beat you during one tour with his real account and a practice shade. (He got #1, too.). You also thoroughly embarrassed me by getting slaughtered by him in the DA when I once suggested you were good enough to beat him. Thanks. I can quote your excuse but I won’t.
The only way you’ll have more #1s is by flying a ton more tours—against reduced competition (in part because he’s not here to whip you). I keep trying to explain ratios but you’re not grasping it.
Extending and not coming back equals losing? On what planet? Some folks leave because they’re out of gas, out of ammo, or need to go to the can—among a million other reasons. Besides, if you think you won then take your moral victory and go home rather than demand Hitech custom-build a game for your purposes. (Or fly a Dora and show us all how it’s done.)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 12:03:24 PM
Or merely their favorite plane(s), whether they win or lose. Some players just wanna play a WWII pilot persona, not necessarily Bong or Boyington, themselves :D
We are all so proud of the open sandbox game play we have. Funny how it turns out we are fighting the same half dozen planes all the time. Not so big a sand box really.
This is part of being a sandbox and happens in most games I knew that are remotely similar. There's always some more 'effective' or popular tools than others. The only way to completely regulate it would be to remove large parts of the sandbox aspect.
Let's just look at the old MW arena. The popular LW muscle machines were totally absent, Spit VIII and Typhoon were perked. To many, the planeset was much more balanced than the LW one. But still it was "the same half dozen planes all the time". In MW tour 100, the top 6 (out of 36 available) fighters made 52% of all fighter vs fighter kills. The top three shared 35% of all kills between them. A huge part of the planeset played only a minor role.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lazerr on March 27, 2019, 02:47:14 PM
I already posted the stats in another thread. You’re wrong. But keep bleating.
He actually beat you one tour with his real account anda practice shade. (He got #1, too.). You also thoroughly embarrassed me by getting slaughtered by him in the DA. I can quote your excuse but I won’t.
The only way you’ll have more #1s is by flying a ton more tours—against reduced competition (in part because he’s not here to whip you). I keep trying to explain ratios but you’re not grasping it.
Extending and not coming back equals losing? On what planet? Some folks leave because they’re out of gas, out of ammo, or need to go to the can—among a million other reasons. Besides, if you think you won then take your moral victory and go home rather than demand Hitech custom-build a game for your purposes. (Or fly a Dora and show us all how it’s done.)
A. He lost the second duel against me that wasn't at 2am on a drunk Saturday. I'm sure you were thoroughly embarrassed.
B. I don't try for #1 every month, you claimed he was #1 more than me, which is false. Disregard all of the events like CC where I had a better record and Koth and FSO. Skyyr never had a great K/D which was his main scoring issue. That's mostly why he had to resort to to the fastest planes in the MA. Not sure why you ankle hump so much.
Its not my fault he was kicked for suspicious gameplay and abuse.
Im sorry that you aren't willing to make the game play more balanced by reducing usage for the easiest planes in the game. Yeah if all you can do is extend and come back when you lose advantage in your F16, I don't consider you that good. It's the easiest tactic and is only available when your free super plane happens to faster than 98% of the rest of the planes. I digress.
This is part of being a sandbox and happens in most games I knew that are remotely similar. There's always some more 'effective' or popular tools than others. The only way to completely regulate it would be to remove large parts of the sandbox aspect.
Let's just look at the old MW arena. The popular LW muscle machines were totally absent, Spit VIII and Typhoon were perked. To many, the planeset was much more balanced than the LW one. But still it was "the same half dozen planes all the time". In MW tour 100, the top 6 (out of 36 available) fighters made 52% of all fighter vs fighter kills. The top three shared 35% of all kills between them. A huge part of the planeset played only a minor role.
This is basically what I am trying to solve by perking certain planes or figuring another way to reduce usage and putting people into lower eny planes. The top fighters of the war should not be so abundant and abused so that it's all everyone has to fly to compete.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2019, 02:53:51 PM
This is basically what I am trying to solve by perking certain planes or figuring another way to reduce usage and putting people into lower eny planes. The top fighters of the war should not be so abundant and abused so that it's all everyone has to fly to compete.
And by moving the bar, it does nothing to change the behavior. It only changes which planes are abundant and abused under the new rules. If there are different choices, there are best choices. What is so difficult about that?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 27, 2019, 02:54:38 PM
last time I checked, everyone has the same opportunity to fly the airframes in question. With that being said, your decision to fly something different should include the knowledge that there are going to be people flying these types of planes. So, if you up in your preferred aircraft and you meet one of them in the skies it should come as no surprise.
Just like when you up a set of heavy buffs and you get bounced by a deuce. It's not an everyday occurrence but it is expected.
It has already been stated that the overall objective of this thread is to change the mentality of MA, which by the way, can not be changed through restriction of the tools used.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 02:56:55 PM
And by moving the bar, it does nothing to change the behavior. It only changes which planes are abundant and abused under the new rules. If there are different choices, there are best choices. What is so difficult about that?
Wiley.
The problem with that is it doesn't address his actual issue. You're just speaking to his rationalization. That's why he can't get it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 02:59:00 PM
A. He lost the second duel against me that wasn't at 2am on a drunk Saturday. I'm sure you were thoroughly embarrassed.
B. I don't try for #1 every month, you claimed he was #1 more than me, which is false. Disregard all of the events like CC where I had a better record and Koth and FSO. Skyyr never had a great K/D which was his main scoring issue. That's mostly why he had to resort to to the fastest planes in the MA. Not sure why you ankle hump so much.
Its not my fault he was kicked for suspicious gameplay and abuse.
He didn’t try for #1 every month either, yet he had a higher percentage of his tours flown as #1 than you ever did. You will only pass him in #1s by flying five times as many tours...
Quote
Im sorry that you aren't willing to make the game play more balanced by reducing usage for the easiest planes in the game. Yeah if all you can do is extend and come back when you lose advantage in your F16, I don't consider you that good. It's the easiest tactic and is only available when your free super plane happens to faster than 98% of the rest of the planes. I digress.
Extending is a valid tactic. If you don’t like it fly a faster plane.
(Insert your excuse here.)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 27, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
Violater Vraciu foams at the mouth over Skyyr you don’t remember the video that Junky posted to the forums that showed Skyyr playing on his account lol? After junky posted it the video was quickly removed from Skyyrs YouTube channel.
You are literally wasting your time with this phony
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 03:51:12 PM
last time I checked, everyone has the same opportunity to fly the airframes in question. With that being said, your decision to fly something different should include the knowledge that there are going to be people flying these types of planes. So, if you up in your preferred aircraft and you meet one of them in the skies it should come as no surprise.
Just like when you up a set of heavy buffs and you get bounced by a deuce. It's not an everyday occurrence but it is expected.
It has already been stated that the overall objective of this thread is to change the mentality of MA, which by the way, can not be changed through restriction of the tools used.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't want to change the mentality of the MA. I want there to be less Uber super late war planes overall. Adding a small perk cost to Uber planes should be no big deal. Heck, I have 13K perks. I could fly a temp for the next 5 years and I can promise you the MA would not like that.
And by moving the bar, it does nothing to change the behavior. It only changes which planes are abundant and abused under the new rules. If there are different choices, there are best choices. What is so difficult about that?
Wiley.
But you aren't understanding that less performance planes like the G14 for example would be used more but would be easier to fight against than Yak3 and 190Ds and spit16 because they have less performance. When the majority of the planes have relatively the same performance as indicated in Luches chart, the fights are better. If you had an arena that was 190Ds vs p51Bs. It wouldnt be very balanced at all. Top late war performance really does matter. I'm just trying to balance the rest of the fighters out in the MA.
But you aren't understanding that less performance planes like the G14 for example would be used more but would be easier to fight against than Yak3 and 190Ds and spit16 because they have less performance. When the majority of the planes have relatively the same performance as indicated in Luches chart, the fights are better. If you had an arena that was 190Ds vs p51Bs. It wouldnt be very balanced at all. Top late war performance really does matter. I'm just trying to balance the rest of the fighters out in the MA.
So the Jug or 51B that never slows down and BnZs and runs from your G14 is somehow an improvement over the Dora that does the same thing, and the Dora that used to mix it up because it was free that now flies timid AF is also an improvement.
Right.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
I don't want to change the mentality of the MA. I want there to be less Uber super late war planes overall. Adding a small perk cost to Uber planes should be no big deal. Heck, I have 13K perks. I could fly a temp for the next 5 years and I can promise you the MA would not like that.
Your arrogance aside you have just destroyed your own argument. (Or revealed its true purpose—to give yourself an advantage.)
Quote
I'm just trying to balance the rest of the fighters out in the MA.
Rolling planeset now!
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 04:48:39 PM
So the Jug or 51B that never slows down and BnZs and runs from your G14 is somehow an improvement over the Dora that does the same thing, and the Dora that used to mix it up because it was free that now flies timid AF is also an improvement.
Right.
Wiley.
Ahh but you see the Jug or P51B cannot accel as quickly nor has even close to the same Top speed, therefore, a 109G14 would have a greater chance of catching it after diving on it compared to a 190D or La7 or Yak3 that skirt away and keep E a lot better. There is a difference! The Jug are Bpony are harder to escape the fight once they get low n slow. Also they have 50s which means you have to hit the enemy longer. That's the not case for the 190D and La7. There's a reason why the 190D has a better K/D with 2700 more kills than a Bpony. I am just confused how you don't see an imbalance there when it's right in the #s. I can guarantee that players won't fly more timidly but even if they did, there would be far less of them in the environment. Therefore, like the Temp and 4hog, it would be less prevalent and therefore less of a dominate plane. I don't see how a few perkies would hurt.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
Ah, so you want the G14 perked, too! :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 05:00:04 PM
That's correct. You just haven't shown any reason to change it from what it is now.
What reason are you specifically thinking of that makes a plane perked? Like I said, the 190D is practically the same plane as the Temp, just a tad slower accel by a few MPH.
Your arrogance aside you have just destroyed your own argument. (Or revealed its true purpose—to give yourself an advantage.)
Rolling planeset now!
Incorrect, like most of your post here.
I am just saying that I could easily fly the fastest planes in the game and always have the advantage. But that's not what i want the MA to turn in to with all of these super late war planes.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
Ahh but you see the Jug or P51B cannot accel as quickly nor has even close to the same Top speed, therefore, a 109G14 would have a greater chance of catching it after diving on it compared to a 190D or La7 or Yak3 that skirt away and keep E a lot better. There is a difference! The Jug are Bpony are harder to escape the fight once they get low n slow. Also they have 50s which means you have to hit the enemy longer. That's the not case for the 190D and La7. There's a reason why the 190D has a better K/D with 2700 more kills than a Bpony. I am just confused how you don't see an imbalance there when it's right in the #s.
If the 109 has alt and the other plane is already low and slow, there's not much difference running dora down and running down a B pony/jug. The guys that fly to live also generally don't get low and slow.
Quote
I can guarantee that players won't fly more timidly
[citation needed.jpg]
Quote
but even if they did, there would be far less of them in the environment. Therefore, like the Temp and 4hog, it would be less prevalent and therefore less of a dominate plane. I don't see how a few perkies would hurt.
There aren't that many people who are fanatical f4u4 or tempest fans. There are a ton of pony D fans. They'd pay, and they'd fly even more timidly.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 05:17:03 PM
I am just saying that I could easily fly the fastest planes in the game and always have the advantage. But that's not what i want the MA to turn in to with all of these super late war planes.
Then do it and quit whining, hot shot.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 05:17:55 PM
What reason are you specifically thinking of that makes a plane perked? Like I said, the 190D is practically the same plane as the Temp, just a tad slower accel by a few MPH.
Do you think Hitech just forgot about the FW-190D when he set the perks?
Assuming he didn't, what has changed that points to the 190D being a problem rather than simply popular?
The FW-190 was famous for it's high roll rate. The Temp not so much. Re-orienting your lift vector faster is a significant ACM advantage. For dogfighting I think the 190D is superior to the Temp in maneuverability. But perks and ENY are not just for dogfighting. They are for arena game play. I'm guessing the key difference for the 190D vs Temp is firepower.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
If the 109 has alt and the other plane is already low and slow, there's not much difference running dora down and running down a B pony/jug. The guys that fly to live also generally don't get low and slow.
[citation needed.jpg]
There aren't that many people who are fanatical f4u4 or tempest fans. There are a ton of pony D fans. They'd pay, and they'd fly even more timidly.
Wiley.
Or just leave. Probably a little of both.
(Being aggressive in a Mustang is situational because it just doesn’t retain/quickly regain E once it’s at the bottom of the stack. You have to know when to bug.)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2019, 05:19:46 PM
This is part of being a sandbox and happens in most games I knew that are remotely similar. There's always some more 'effective' or popular tools than others. The only way to completely regulate it would be to remove large parts of the sandbox aspect.
Let's just look at the old MW arena. The popular LW muscle machines were totally absent, Spit VIII and Typhoon were perked. To many, the planeset was much more balanced than the LW one. But still it was "the same half dozen planes all the time". In MW tour 100, the top 6 (out of 36 available) fighters made 52% of all fighter vs fighter kills. The top three shared 35% of all kills between them. A huge part of the planeset played only a minor role.
I dont have any numbers to back up my thoughts, your chart shows P51, Yak3, Spit16, D9, Nik, and La as the top 6. Seems to me we use to see a lot more 109 other than the K4, F4s, F6F, Spit8, and 5s, Jugs other than the M, and on base defense Hurris, IL2, Brewster and Zeros at sea.
All that diversity is gone. It is rare that you find these other planes today. Sure you can fly any plane you want, but to catch most other players you need the speed demons which only makes things worst. So your choice is to fly a speed demon, or log off. Neither choice can be very good for business.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 05:21:44 PM
I-16 hater.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 05:23:03 PM
Yeah. It's one of the common characteristics of pony dweebs. When people talk about limiting planes, you never hear, "If I have to pay perks for a 109K(or Ta152, or pretty much any other plane), I'm out of here." But for a lot of people, it seems to be pony or nothing.
Weirdly cultish.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 05:32:31 PM
I dont have any numbers to back up my thoughts, your chart shows P51, Yak3, Spit16, D9, Nik, and La as the top 6. Seems to me we use to see a lot more 109 other than the K4, F4s, F6F, Spit8, and 5s, Jugs other than the M, and on base defense Hurris, IL2, Brewster and Zeros at sea.
All that diversity is gone. It is rare that you find these other planes today. Sure you can fly any plane you want, but to catch most other players you need the speed demons which only makes things worst. So your choice is to fly a speed demon, or log off. Neither choice can be very good for business.
While I'm not there as frequently as you, I still see all of those planes. Heck, I fly them myself. I suspect the reason we don't see as many is because we've lost a lot of people who enjoyed the challenge - not because people suddenly discovered the Dora. You can't force people to challenge themselves ("Honest, dear, it has to come from the heart!").
Vraciu has another point; making favorite rides harder to obtain results in people departing. We've seen this with the ENY debates.
And really, you don't have to log off if you can't catch a runner. Turn 90 degrees one way or the other, and generally he'll come back hoping to get an advantage.
- oldman
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lusche on March 27, 2019, 05:34:31 PM
I dont have any numbers to back up my thoughts, your chart shows P51, Yak3, Spit16, D9, Nik, and La as the top 6. Seems to me we use to see a lot more 109 other than the K4, F4s, F6F, Spit8, and 5s, Jugs other than the M, and on base defense Hurris, IL2, Brewster and Zeros at sea.
All that diversity is gone.
The diversity is not much different that, say, 10 years ago. In 2008, the top 5 fighters had 35.5% of all fighter vs fighter kills, in 2018 it was 33% In 2008, the top 10 fighters had 51.7% vs 50% in 2018 In 2008, the bottom 20 fighters got 5%, in 2018 3%. Almost nobody flew them back then, and almost nobody is flying them today ;)
"Nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they seemed."
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 05:36:37 PM
And really, you don't have to log off if you can't catch a runner. Turn 90 degrees one way or the other, and generally he'll come back hoping to get an advantage.
The diversity is not much different that, say, 10 years ago. In 2008, the top 5 fighters had 35.5% of all fighter vs fighter kills, in 2018 it was 33% In 2008, the top 10 fighters had 51.7% vs 50% in 2018 In 2008, the bottom 20 fighters got 5%, in 2018 3%. Almost nobody flew them back then, and almost nobody is flying them today ;)
"Nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they seemed."
Interesting how little the percentages have changed. The only quibble I'd have with your conclusion is on the bottom 20. Going from 5% to 3% is a fairly significant difference. Relative to itself, usage went down 40%.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Lusche on March 27, 2019, 05:59:29 PM
Yeah. It's one of the common characteristics of pony dweebs. When people talk about limiting planes, you never hear, "If I have to pay perks for a 109K(or Ta152, or pretty much any other plane), I'm out of here." But for a lot of people, it seems to be pony or nothing.
Weirdly cultish.
Wiley.
Weirdly challenging.
The Mustang is not my favorite fighter of WWII (the Corsair is, followed by the P-38) but I have no interest in flying much of anything else here in AH. I find the airplane a challenging enigma of sorts, but primarily I just like the view.
The Dora is second. Again for the view.
Guys who make it tough for me in my 51 wind up easy meat when I switch to the Spit XVI. Mustangs require discipline. I look at them as a challenge to master and all I can say is that I've made a lot of progress with much left to learn.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 06:22:49 PM
(Being aggressive in a Mustang is situational because it just doesn’t retain/quickly regain E once it’s at the bottom of the stack. You have to know when to bug.)
Notice I said the P51 shouldnt be perked. I think its good right where it is. I think with the 50s and lack of Accel, its not too easy. You still have to be patient to fly it as to not get too slow. The 190D doesn't get as slow because most try to turn with it as little as possible. People tend to lose patience in planes that can turn well which gets them low n slow, that's the. F4us biggest problem when people fly it, it's hard to keep in E in planes that turn well because of a lack of patience.
Because it's not good for new sticks who don't understand defensive maneuvers. Fighting in the defensive is much more challenging. Fighting people who run away only to turn back and attack your slower plane is not exciting for a person who doesn't know what they are doing. Being the victim of a BnZer is tiring.
Do you think Hitech just forgot about the FW-190D when he set the perks?
Assuming he didn't, what has changed that points to the 190D being a problem rather than simply popular?
The FW-190 was famous for it's high roll rate. The Temp not so much. Re-orienting your lift vector faster is a significant ACM advantage. For dogfighting I think the 190D is superior to the Temp in maneuverability. But perks and ENY are not just for dogfighting. They are for arena game play. I'm guessing the key difference for the 190D vs Temp is firepower.
I think Hitech forgot how good these planes are. 2 extra Cannon's is great, but the 190D has longer shooting and longer shooting timing with 500 cannons and some odd 50s.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2019, 06:28:28 PM
The diversity is not much different that, say, 10 years ago. In 2008, the top 5 fighters had 35.5% of all fighter vs fighter kills, in 2018 it was 33% In 2008, the top 10 fighters had 51.7% vs 50% in 2018 In 2008, the bottom 20 fighters got 5%, in 2018 3%. Almost nobody flew them back then, and almost nobody is flying them today ;)
"Nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they seemed."
The biggest telling part is that 50% of 150 players is one thing, but 50% of 400 players is something else. Again player numbers exasperates the issues. If we had 400 players playing, even if half of them run/avoid fights, Id still have a pretty good chance at finding a fight.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 06:42:05 PM
I'd rather not become part of the bore fest problem. Though I do like proving what a plane is capable of the MA.
Your chest thumping is a bore.
Notice I said the P51 shouldnt be perked. I think its good right where it is. I think with the 50s and lack of Accel, its not too easy. You still have to be patient to fly it as to not get too slow. The 190D doesn't get as slow because most try to turn with it as little as possible. People tend to lose patience in planes that can turn well which gets them low n slow, that's the. F4us biggest problem when people fly it, it's hard to keep in E in planes that turn well because of a lack of patience.
That's what I've been trying to say. But implement your idea and it will be perked, too, based purely on emotion.
My reply in red above.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 06:48:35 PM
Actually, I gotta give it to Violator here. He may be persistent but he's keeping a cool head throughout this ordeal. :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ciaphas on March 27, 2019, 06:49:09 PM
This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway.
If, when engaged in a fight and you lose a bit of SA and blow your E, would it not be a good idea to extend to remedy your ride's E deficiency? Would it also be a bad idea to turn back in to an enemy that is chasing you while trying to equalize your rides E state?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 06:50:36 PM
The Mustang is not my favorite fighter of WWII (the Corsair is, followed by the P-38) but I have no interest in flying much of anything else here in AH.
With your CPID, I always figured you would be an F6F guy (from day 1).
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 06:59:01 PM
This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway.
If, when engaged in a fight and you lose a bit of SA and blow your E, would it not be a good idea to extend to remedy your ride's E deficiency? Would it also be a bad idea to turn back in to an enemy that is chasing you while trying to equalize your rides E state?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll ask Skyyr. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2019, 07:09:31 PM
When you bring it up first, I do like to mention how much I understand AH because it proves I know what i am talking about in the MA.
Emotion aside, the 190D has a better K/D than the P51 by .4%. that's a big difference on paper. It means the 190 is much harder to shoot down and still gets 3500 kills. That's a fact.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Shuffler on March 27, 2019, 07:12:03 PM
For all I know Hitech is getting ready to perk the 190D but I'm guessing he simply disagrees with you.
I hope he is working on some kind of Eny update. I would never know because there has been no announcement. I'm not the first person to mention it, but I'd like for some adjustments to be made to eny even if we can't agree on the #. But he should at least acknowledge that some of the planes need to be updated based on MA performance.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 07:42:59 PM
I hope he is working on some kind of Eny update. I would never know because there has been no announcement. I'm not the first person to mention it, but I'd like for some adjustments to be made to eny even if we can't agree on the #. But he should at least acknowledge that some of the planes need to be updated based on MA performance.
Apparently he already adjusted ENY with disagreement about the numbers. Why do it again? It might get worse. :D
He doesn't need to acknowledge a theory he disagrees with. You still haven't shown a problem, just a personal preference for what other people should be doing.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 27, 2019, 08:07:14 PM
This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway.
If, when engaged in a fight and you lose a bit of SA and blow your E, would it not be a good idea to extend to remedy your ride's E deficiency? Would it also be a bad idea to turn back in to an enemy that is chasing you while trying to equalize your rides E state?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Most guys who like to fight would stick around and try to equalize E again and/or force the over shoot and shoot him down. Most general player would have run lonnnnggggg before they blew their E.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2019, 08:24:54 PM
Apparently he already adjusted ENY with disagreement about the numbers. Why do it again? It might get worse. :D
He doesn't need to acknowledge a theory he disagrees with. You still haven't shown a problem, just a personal preference for what other people should be doing.
The Yak3 is an 18 eny plane just under the P51B with 2500 more kills and a .4 better K/D. How is that rational with the current stats every month? The 190D is a 12 eny plane that achieves 1000 more kills with a better or close K/D than the La7, P47M, F4U, K4, Nik, Ki84, better K/D than a P51D and spit16. And you guys think they are rated fairly?
Come on man...
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2019, 09:44:00 PM
The Yak3 is an 18 eny plane just under the P51B with 2500 more kills and a .4 better K/D. How is that rational with the current stats every month? The 190D is a 12 eny plane that achieves 1000 more kills with a better or close K/D than the La7, P47M, F4U, K4, Nik, Ki84, better K/D than a P51D and spit16. And you guys think they are rated fairly?
Come on man...
I have made no statements about the fairness of the ratings but I see no reason to second guess Hitech. I'm just trying to help you make a better argument.
Do you think a fair rating would result in equal statistics regardless of pilot? Two different pilots in the same plane have different statistics so what does that prove about the plane? You want to compare it to different planes with other different pilots and then somehow everything should equal out because of perks? How does that make any sense? You have too many variables.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: bustr on March 28, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
FLS,
If you look at Viol's request from the perspective that we are playing a sport game and not flying airplanes to shoot each other down, it makes sense what he is requesting. At the end, we are in a competition just like any online sporting game. Most online combat games are structured like a sport game anyway. In some ways this reminds me of tennis singles players. He wants the field adjusted based on a relationship of player choice of game play tools to acheive their outcomes to how he views his outcomes. They are running away from him and not playing to his strengths on the game field. He is not getting his dollar's worth while it appears they are happy with theirs. He wants the governing body to review the current paradigm from his perspective to make changes.
This post is 15 pages in and is reducing to finger pointing and hijacking. I can remember 2 maybe 3 major perk and ENY adjustments by Hitech over the last 17 years. The rest of the wishlist postings have gone like this one.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vinkman on March 28, 2019, 02:04:13 PM
not an issue for me. 5% of my deaths are by Dora. 4% of my kills are doras.
They're tough to catch, and easy to avoid. :salute
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
If you look at Viol's request from the perspective that we are playing a sport game and not flying airplanes to shoot each other down, it makes sense what he is requesting. At the end, we are in a competition just like any online sporting game. Most online combat games are structured like a sport game anyway. In some ways this reminds me of tennis singles players. He wants the field adjusted based on a relationship of player choice of game play tools to acheive their outcomes to how he views his outcomes. They are running away from him and not playing to his strengths on the game field. He is not getting his dollar's worth while it appears they are happy with theirs. He wants the governing body to review the current paradigm from his perspective to make changes.
This post is 15 pages in and is reducing to finger pointing and hijacking. I can remember 2 maybe 3 major perk and ENY adjustments by Hitech over the last 17 years. The rest of the wishlist postings have gone like this one.
Nonsense. You would have a point if we were discussing dueling. It's a poor argument for the MA.
The thing about perks and ENY is that they aren't meant to make things fair, that's a pipe dream however desirable, perks and ENY work to reduce unfairness and that's the best we can hope for. The downside is losing players because of perks and ENY so it's not an issue to play "let's see what happens" with.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2019, 02:25:48 PM
Let's see what happens if we lock every toy in the MA but the I-16. :D
On the other hand ......
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 28, 2019, 02:26:37 PM
Nonsense. You would have a point if we were discussing dueling. It's a poor argument for the MA.
The thing about perks and ENY is that they aren't meant to make things fair, that's a pipe dream however desirable, perks and ENY work to reduce unfairness and that's the best we can hope for. The downside is losing players because of perks and ENY so it's not an issue to play "let's see what happens" with.
This is Violator's disconnect becasue he wants the MA to be something it's not, it's the heart of his request. He wants the toys adjusted thinking he can force people to fight him outside of their comfort zone by removing their ability to disconnect from fights at will. In the DA you are stuck in place, in the MA you have options to disconnect and find combat more to your choosing. He wants those options in the MA reduced or taken away to suit himself. Hitech has adjusted the perk and ENY very little over the years in favor of players like Violator. Instead he has chosen allowing his customers to play how they choose to in the MA. These 15 pages are him trying to tell all of us we are wrong becasue he judges himself the gold standard of AH air combat game play in all arenas. So Hitech and the rest of us need to listen to his observations as the gold standard becasue he is the new sheriff in town.
A lot of parallels to Ocasio-Cortez and her ideas for a new and better world for all of us.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: SPKmes on March 28, 2019, 03:33:28 PM
I see what you did there
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 03:48:23 PM
This is Violator's disconnect becasue he wants the MA to be something it's not, it's the heart of his request. He wants the toys adjusted thinking he can force people to fight him outside of their comfort zone by removing their ability to disconnect from fights at will. In the DA you are stuck in place, in the MA you have options to disconnect and find combat more to your choosing. He wants those options in the MA reduced or taken away to suit himself. Hitech has adjusted the perk and ENY very little over the years in favor of players like Violator. Instead he has chosen allowing his customers to play how they choose to in the MA. These 15 pages are him trying to tell all of us we are wrong becasue he judges himself the gold standard of AH air combat game play in all arenas. So Hitech and the rest of us need to listen to his observations as the gold standard becasue he is the new sheriff in town.
A lot of parallels to Ocasio-Cortez and her ideas for a new and better world for all of us.
You are wrong. And the #s prove it. :aok
Non of y'all can argue the actual #s and results.
You or FLSs arguement doesn't prove anything, just "hitech is right because he's god". The #s have dropped only with a little increase in the past 3 months. I'll just fly a 190D for the rest of year and y'all can have fun dying and screaming when you can't catch me!
If you don't think certain planes have advantages In performance over others in the MA, you are just arrogant and don't really understand the game or gameplay.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 03:52:10 PM
If y'all think the Yak3 or 190D is fairly balanced in the game with regards to performance and eny, you obviously don't play AH very much and are probably not very good at it.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 28, 2019, 03:53:34 PM
You or FLSs arguement doesn't prove anything, just "hitech is right because he's god". The #s have dropped only with a little increase in the past 3 months. I'll just fly a 190D for the rest of year and y'all can have fun dying and screaming when you can't catch me!
If you don't think certain planes have advantages In performance over others in the MA, you are just arrogant and don't really understand the game or gameplay.
Says the guy who has yet to admit he's wrong. About anything. Despite contrary evidence.
Give it up. This dog won't hunt.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 03:57:24 PM
You or FLSs arguement doesn't prove anything, just "hitech is right because he's god". The #s have dropped only with a little increase in the past 3 months. I'll just fly a 190D for the rest of year and y'all can have fun dying and screaming when you can't catch me!
If you don't think certain planes have advantages In performance over others in the MA, you are just arrogant and don't really understand the game or gameplay.
Calm down kid. You're just frustrated and handling it badly.
It's Hitech's business, not his hobby. That makes him the boss. Respecting that is a good thing.
Nobody said the planes are equal. You threw that in because you don't have a response to the real argument.
You claim a reduction in FW-190D stats would improve the game. Thanks for your opinion.
Fly what you like. Enjoy the game. :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Shuffler on March 28, 2019, 04:26:53 PM
I like milk
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 04:33:09 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 28, 2019, 04:34:08 PM
I'm not frustrated, I just don't enjoy the weak thinking they are right when they are clearly by the #s wrong.
It's better to claim you're frustrated when you're insulting people for disagreeing with you.
What would be the correct stats for the 190D?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 04:47:11 PM
Hey, don't insult me and I wont insult you. I'm just saying y'all are clearly ignorant and it explains a lot of things as to why gameplay slowed down over the years. Too many dweeb planes for dweeb players. I mean, hey, at least most of the P51Ds only players don't have clue how to really fly it. :rofl
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 04:48:12 PM
Well I'm relieved you aren't insulting anyone. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 28, 2019, 05:03:46 PM
Violater you claim the reason the numbers are decreasing is because of the imbalance of the 190 and the Yak3.... really? Lol
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 05:09:11 PM
Violater you claim the reason the numbers are decreasing is because of the imbalance of the 190 and the Yak3.... really? Lol
Its part of the reason. The Yak3 especially. During off hours and trying to find people to shoot, only to constantly come across these planes that hit X after they can't beat you even with an advantage. Slow gameplay is the result. People get bored.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 28, 2019, 05:37:11 PM
Hey, don't insult me and I wont insult you. I'm just saying y'all are clearly ignorant and it explains a lot of things as to why gameplay slowed down over the years. Too many dweeb planes for dweeb players. I mean, hey, at least most of the P51Ds only players don't have clue how to really fly it. :rofl
I don't have a clue how to fly it but I give you all you can handle.
(Insert your favorite excuse here.)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: ACE on March 28, 2019, 06:09:17 PM
Its part of the reason. The Yak3 especially. During off hours and trying to find people to shoot, only to constantly come across these planes that hit X after they can't beat you even with an advantage. Slow gameplay is the result. People get bored.
I never had trouble with the Yak3 or the 190D. Never bothered me that players just run away when I beat them shrugged it off and turned towards other people. I think you’ve gone a bit over board here. Both of those planes could use a ENY adjustment even then it’s not going to really matter.
You shouldnt Try and dictate other players gameplay because it doesn’t suit yours. You are really hampering down on the reason the numbers are declining is because of these two planes. I don’t think you could be any more wrong in that statement.
IMO, the reason the numbers are dwindling is because it takes to long to get into action. When you do find a fight the base is already taken.
I respect your opinion on the game as you have put in a lot of time and have gotten pretty decent at flying. But you are really talking about behavior and you just don’t see it when every single person is telling you it lol. We can’t help you there brother. Good luck beating down this wall you’ve made though!
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 28, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
I never had trouble with the Yak3 or the 190D. Never bothered me that players just run away when I beat them shrugged it off and turned towards other people. I think you’ve gone a bit over board here. Both of those planes could use a ENY adjustment even then it’s not going to really matter.
You shouldnt Try and dictate other players gameplay because it doesn’t suit yours. You are really hampering down on the reason the numbers are declining is because of these two planes. I don’t think you could be any more wrong in that statement.
IMO, the reason the numbers are dwindling is because it takes to long to get into action. When you do find a fight the base is already taken.
I respect your opinion on the game as you have put in a lot of time and have gotten pretty decent at flying. But you are really talking about behavior and you just don’t see it when every single person is telling you it lol. We can’t help you there brother. Good luck beating down this wall you’ve made though!
I guess I just don't understand why there are even perks at all according to all of yours rational.
You said time to action was a problem.. how doesn't that include easy mode runner plane? Is chasing 190Ds in your G14 really actionable?
My first goal to help gameplay was to shorten base distance. Hitech allowed bustr to try it and it has worked, from my view. This is what you are implying by "taking too long for action".
My second goal was to use the arena message to promote special events. It's was tried last month. Not sure how it worked out. Was actually wondering about that. But I think it helped because players could plan for it easier.
Now we really need an eny adjustment to promote mid war and lower eny planes. This will bring more action because there will be more fights relative to performance of the planes. Ie, players will have to actually use skill rather than plane performance to succeed.
I don't see how that is a problem... I'm not dictating anyone's fights. They can easily earn perks just like me. I'm just trying to balance the fighter #s by perking top late war planes that have over saturated the area, and showing that perking planes does have an effect on plane usages, or we wouldn't have perks to begin with.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 28, 2019, 07:06:20 PM
I am with Violator on this matter. It's not that he thinks he is better and want people to play his way. He wants to improve overall gameplay for everyone. And certain planes create a problem that causes stale gameplay. Especially on the off hours. On the off hours CV battle's are generally the most exciting fights you can find. The reason for this is the lower tier planes that are available. These planes characteristics promote engagements. Instead of the hit and run tactics you will find out with the big e fighters.
EAce for exlample is awesome in his TA152, however it's boring as f.. to fight him. I have no other option to chase him because when I turn he will catch me and make a pass and runs away again. This is how you should fly that plane. And it's a problem if the majority of the player base fly's like this. The gameplay becomes stale. Even for EAce if he chooses to fly like this and his six opponents scoot away on the first contact to look for a better engagement.
Perking such planes or lowering eny should be considered. I don't have anything against the play style. From time to time I like to fly like that as well. But it's bad for the overall fun off players. Which angers players and will move away to something else. I do think this is what made a lot of players quit in the past and if we are not careful it will be a reason to leave the game in the future aswell.
DutchVII
Ps: EAce sorry I used you as an example. You where the first to come to mind.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 07:13:15 PM
We'd all like the game to be fun for everybody. That's why you two guys should stop playing like you do and play differently. :aok
Sound like fun?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 28, 2019, 07:22:57 PM
We'd all like the game to be fun for everybody. That's why you two guys should stop playing like you do and play differently. :aok
Sound like fun?
For me yes, I can easily ruin a county's fun by myself. I just choose to dweeb around and put myself in a bad spot all the time. Besides me likeing the challenge of that I get no pleasure out of greafing other players.
But again we are NOT against anyone flying in a particular flying style. There is just to much of it. I can't imagine you chasing Dora's all day long and not catching them being fun for you.
It's like you don't want to look at something from another perspective and consider there might be some reason to the argument. I promise you I do.
DutchVII
Edit: let me correct that. I don't mean you in particular, I just see to many people here take a certain opinion and present it as fact while arguing with others but are not trying to see where the other player is coming from
Edit2: I don't want to attack you personally, just want to make that clear.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 07:45:27 PM
What should the FW190D and Yak3 statistics be for the game to not be boring?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 28, 2019, 07:54:39 PM
For me yes, I can easily ruin a county's fun by myself. I just choose to dweeb around and put myself in a bad spot all the time. Besides me likeing the challenge of that I get no pleasure out of greafing other players.
But again we are NOT against anyone flying in a particular flying style. There is just to much of it. I can't imagine you chasing Dora's all day long and not catching them being fun for you.
It's like you don't want to look at something from another perspective and consider there might be some reason to the argument. I promise you I do.
DutchVII
Edit: let me correct that. I don't mean you in particular, I just see to many people here take a certain opinion and present it as fact while arguing with others but are not trying to see where the other player is coming from
Edit2: I don't want to attack you personally, just want to make that clear.
A runner is a runner regardless of plane. Somehow, Violator seems to think other planes steadily pulling away from him will be an improvement over D9s. The guys that fly to live don't slow down. The acceleration just isn't that large of a factor for the guys he's claiming to want to limit.
Also, how does "I'm not against anybody's flying style, I just don't want them to do it." work exactly?
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 28, 2019, 07:57:06 PM
What should the FW190D and Yak3 statistics be for the game to not be boring?
A good start for would be to put a 190D at 5eny like a pony or spit 16. The yak3 is not worse than a N1K, make it at least the same. Same with a 109k4 for example. Or a mosquito at 30 eny while a 110 is 15 eny if memory serves right. The eny list is out of wack.
I am of the opinion all planes under 10 should be lightly perked 1-3. and it would be beneficial to everyone. But I don't see that happening since there would be riots.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2019, 07:58:00 PM
A good start for would be to put a 190D at 5eny like a pony or spit 16. The yak3 is not worse than a N1K, make it at least the same. Same with a 109k4 for example. Or a mosquito at 30 eny while a 110 is 15 eny if memory serves right. The eny list is out of wack.
I am of the opinion all planes under 10 should be lightly perked 1-3. and it would be beneficial to everyone. But I don't see that happening since there would be riots.
Why would there be riots when everybody is benefiting?
Also, I didn't ask what the settings should be, I was asking about the usage and K/D statistics that "prove" there's a problem. What should the stats be for those two planes?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 28, 2019, 08:11:30 PM
A runner is a runner regardless of plane. Somehow, Violator seems to think other planes steadily pulling away from him will be an improvement over D9s. The guys that fly to live don't slow down. The acceleration just isn't that large of a factor for the guys he's claiming to want to limit.
Also, how does "I'm not against anybody's flying style, I just don't want them to do it." work exactly?
Wiley.
Is it the running or the picking and very committing for a flight? I remember very well chasing players in yak3's running away and commingled back at me when I turn away and that happening for 20 minutes long until I ran out of fuel.
I just want more mid tier planes in the arena, or at least a reason for them to become a viable choose for every player. If you go to the ww1 arena you will find massive amounts of good fights when it's populated. It's in the nature of the planes. The earlier the planes are made more they tend to encourage you to actually fight an opponent. (There are exceptions like the p40's)
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 28, 2019, 08:19:40 PM
Is it the running or the picking and very committing for a flight? I remember very well chasing players in yak3's running away and commingled back at me when I turn away and that happening for 20 minutes long until I ran out of fuel.
I just want more mid tier planes in the arena, or at least a reason for them to become a viable choose for every player. If you go to the ww1 arena you will find massive amounts of good fights when it's populated. It's in the nature of the planes. The earlier the planes are made more they tend to encourage you to actually fight an opponent. (There are exceptions like the p40's)
Most people go to the path of least resistance, whatever form that takes. Most people play the game not to die and get some kills, in that order. As long as there is something faster than your chosen dogfighting plane, people will take it so they can dictate the fight.
It's what you get when it's a varied sandbox. People are free to do whatever they can.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 28, 2019, 08:22:37 PM
Why would there be riots when everybody is benefiting?
Also, I didn't ask what the settings should be, I was asking about the usage and K/D statistics that "prove" there's a problem. What should the stats be for those two planes?
Well the first one is easy to answer. Look at the changes at the radar and the gv icons. Oh boy. If you change anything in this game everyone riots.
For the second one I have no exact stats. But from observations in the game you can clearly see people getting frustrated, I known about at least 5 players close to me that the "pick tards" where there main reason to leave the game.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
Well the first one is easy to answer. Look at the changes at the radar and the gv icons. Oh boy. If you change anything in this game everyone riots.
For the second one I have no exact stats. But from observations in the game you can clearly see people getting frustrated, I known about at least 5 players close to me that the "pick tards" where there main reason to leave the game.
So people don't all want the same changes. Good to know. :D
Most of the arenas are narrowly focused compared to the MA. You can't expect a nice duel in the MA but they happen sometimes. In the match arena they can happen every time. Different arena, different expectations.
Part of what's great about the MA is that everybody has a certain amount of freedom to play the game they want to play. I agree that some people are not fun to fight. Being fun to fight results in more fights, but you can't force people to be fun. The correct way to change a player's behavior in the MA is to change your behavior so that they respond differently. If you don't want to do that then that's your choice. If you can't find a good fight you only need to convince one person to go to the match arena with you. If you can't find one player that wants to play with you maybe you need to think about that.
Not you personally. :aok
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Wiley on March 28, 2019, 08:36:42 PM
Well the first one is easy to answer. Look at the changes at the radar and the gv icons. Oh boy. If you change anything in this game everyone riots.
For the second one I have no exact stats. But from observations in the game you can clearly see people getting frustrated, I known about at least 5 players close to me that the "pick tards" where there main reason to leave the game.
The people who play a multiplayer game and demand 2 player game play REALLY confuse me. We are not Chuck Norris. The bad guys are not going to line up in an orderly fashion to fight us one at a time.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 28, 2019, 09:00:02 PM
Yet another "play the game how I want you to play" thread poorly disguised as how to improve the game.
No one has yet posted how the Dora unfairly unbalances the game play and needs to be perked. The stats posted by Lusche clearly show the Dora does not unbalance the game play and the only plane the Dora dominates is the N1K2 by a small margin.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: flippz on March 28, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
We'd all like the game to be fun for everybody. That's why you two guys should stop playing like you do and play differently. :aok
Sound like fun?
so if they have to change there game play does that make them happy? that's a odd statement to make. much like when you complain you cant get a fight cause every one runs, so some smart person tells you to fly a slower plane? that's no really the fun I was looking for, more so I want the guy to fight me that's the closet. I agree with violator in everything he has said. I much don't care what some one else wants to fly but with limited numbers of players you are forced to fight where the fight is. there is a certain group of yaks that fly for rooks. go fight err I mean chase them for a while. there are other 190d pilots and 51 pilots on the nit side that are one pass and extend 5k if they are the only ones in the area. ITS BORING AF! now again I don't care what some one wants to fly but by obvious choice of there own they are ruining the game for many others. and it sucks. like dutch I use to love when a cv pulled up and there was a 20 min brawl of nothing but turny planes. those were the best. now its pretty much like violator said one turn and burn unless they have help.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 09:14:17 PM
That was rhetorical. Sorry you didn't get it.
What is your solution?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 28, 2019, 09:53:53 PM
Violator has been suggesting a solution, you do not agree with that solution. Flippz has said he agrees with Violator.
Why do you need to ask what the solution is again?
The fact is dealing with a hit and run player is ok now and then. But when most of the players are doing it then it becomes tiresome. Limiting the number of HIGH POWERED hit and run fighters is likely to lead to less of the player base doing it.
Many players are frustrated by it. Yes, it is behavioural but HTC can put mechanisms on place to limit the behaviour.
Note, it does not stop players employing this flight style, it means they need to be more skilled / disciplined as if they make a mistake in the lesser BnZ planes they can be caught and shot down. Currently they can simply escape with ease and that is not good for anyone.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 10:24:41 PM
The problem is you can't catch them in a slower plane? Fly a faster plane.
But you want to catch them while flying a slower plane. OK then, make everybody else change.
Good plan. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 28, 2019, 10:33:58 PM
I already stated in this thread that these people just run at the sight of a co alt fast plane. I also stated that I do fly the 51 which is capable of running people down but not if they run at the first contact of 6k out.
Look at it from another perspective. A mediocre pilot can eventually beat a better pilot simply by doing high speed passes, hit and run, and get hits now and again until they do enough damage.
What we woukd like to see is that pilot require more skill to stay alive rather than 'beast' their way out of trouble. Surely that is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Oldman731 on March 28, 2019, 10:35:12 PM
Violator has been suggesting a solution, you do not agree with that solution. Flippz has said he agrees with Violator.
Why do you need to ask what the solution is again?
The fact is dealing with a hit and run player is ok now and then. But when most of the players are doing it then it becomes tiresome. Limiting the number of HIGH POWERED hit and run fighters is likely to lead to less of the player base doing it.
Many players are frustrated by it. Yes, it is behavioural but HTC can put mechanisms on place to limit the behaviour.
Note, it does not stop players employing this flight style, it means they need to be more skilled / disciplined as if they make a mistake in the lesser BnZ planes they can be caught and shot down. Currently they can simply escape with ease and that is not good for anyone.
My Mustang is safe then. Rock on. :rock
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Vraciu on March 28, 2019, 10:36:10 PM
I already stated in this thread that these people just run at the sight of a co alt fast plane. I also stated that I do fly the 51 which is capable of running people down but not if they run at the first contact of 6k out.
Look at it from another perspective. A mediocre pilot can eventually beat a better pilot simply by doing high speed passes, hit and run, and get hits now and again until they do enough damage.
What we woukd like to see is that pilot require more skill to stay alive rather than 'beast' their way out of trouble. Surely that is not a bad thing.
Of course it's a bad thing. You want to coerce behavior you can't manage on your own. The game is too challenging and you want it to be easier. I get that. Somebody should stop people from playing the way they choose to play so that you can play the way you choose to play. I felt the same way 20 years ago. :cheers:
My solution is to offer training to people who want to get better. :joystick:
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 28, 2019, 10:42:13 PM
Of course it's a bad thing. You want to coerce behavior you can't manage on your own. The game is too challenging and you want it to be easier. I get that. Somebody should stop people from playing the way they choose to play so that you can play the way you choose to play. I felt the same way 20 years ago. :cheers:
My solution is to offer training to people who want to get better. :joystick:
Are you even reading the words I write
Boarding a flight home. Will respnod to this later
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 28, 2019, 10:55:05 PM
You want other people to accept getting shot down more often. Another awesome plan. :D
Where did I state that? It appears you are making an assumption because you did not fully understand my comments. If you did fully understand them you are simply being obtuse. Look the meaning of the word up, I think it fits.
Try fighting each other in the match arena. Expert opponents, no running. :aok
That is a great idea except for the fact that almost no one goes there. Believe me I have asked and asked and asked and lately the only one who will go there is OWL. And we seem to have a lot of fun with no abuse.
Edit: On the fun issue, is the mediocre pilot who escapes having fun?
Probably. But there is more!! Is it possible that the player could have MORE fun?? Here is the thing, as I stated earlier, restricting access to the D9 for that player does not stop him / her being able to employ the hit and run approach to the game. It may make it harder for them to recover from an error and successfully escape. That to me means that they can either go ultra cautious - not much of a change for them, or they will get a few more white knuckle, heart racing, sweaty palm fights. That IMO would be a great thing because I believe we play the game for those moments.
Your assertion that I find the game too challenging and want to make it easier is perhaps an example of how you are misunderstanding the words I am writing. I do not want to make it easier, I want to encourage air combat by reducing the ease of hit and run using very powerful machines. Applying a perk to that machine would seem to be a reasonable way of achieving that goal as it leaves the plane available for use but likely reduces the frequency by way of a cost to use.
I am saying that there is a lack of parity in the fight and the use of a perk cost could help to level out that lack of parity in this particular instance. Other aircraft are perked, this is not a solution without precedence.
For those of you who say we are trying to impose our preferred method of flying on others I would say this. I enter the game looking for and hoping for air combat. I assume other players who fly fighters do the same. I accept there are different methods to achieve this and accept that hit and run is a valid tactic. Now, given that, if I spend hours doing nothing but avoiding high speed passes where I am unable to get guns on the attacker because he is able to disengage with ease then pretty soon I get bored and log off. What we are trying to do is find a common ground so neither side experiences the urge to log off.
What we woukd like to see is that pilot require more skill to stay alive rather than 'beast' their way out of trouble. Surely that is not a bad thing.
Since the pilot lacks skill to win the fight and can't get away what's the likely outcome? Sounds to me like they should accept getting shot down. What did you really mean?
If pilots can't run away it makes shooting them down easier. That's clear isn't it? So easier for the skilled pilots, harder for everyone else, but of course it's for their own good. <snort>
I'll restate the thread. Some skilled pilots have less fun because they don't get kills they are entitled to by their skill. Some less skilled pilots have fun they don't deserve to have because the planes are too fast. :cry
What's the community split on pilot ability? Call it 20/80 for discussion? HTC should adjust the game to favor the 20%? Good plan. :D
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 29, 2019, 02:13:31 AM
Since the pilot lacks skill to win the fight and can't get away what's the likely outcome? Sounds to me like they should accept getting shot down. What did you really mean?
If pilots can't run away it makes shooting them down easier. That's clear isn't it? So easier for the skilled pilots, harder for everyone else, but of course it's for their own good. <snort>
I'll restate the thread. Some skilled pilots have less fun because they don't get kills they are entitled to by their skill. Some less skilled pilots have fun they don't deserve to have because the planes are too fast. :cry
What's the community split on pilot ability? Call it 20/80 for discussion? HTC should adjust the game to favor the 20%? Good plan. :D
My previous post set it out clearly that we are not advocating that the less skilled players become fodder. Nor are we advocating that they should be able to roam the skies untouched because of the plane they are in being able to just get out of trouble at will. What we are seeking is a balance for all.
I would say that is a good plan.
Why are the other planes perked and why should the D9 not be perked?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 29, 2019, 03:12:47 AM
The planes that are perked were done so because data showed these planes to cause an imbalance in the game play. The Dora has not shown to be in this category. The data provided by Lusche has shown that the Dora is not the monster some claim it to be.
No offense to you or Violator but neither of you have shown any proof that the Dora needs to be perked or how the plane unbalances the game other than complain about those that don't fight how you feel they should play.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FLS on March 29, 2019, 03:45:59 AM
My previous post set it out clearly that we are not advocating that the less skilled players become fodder. Nor are we advocating that they should be able to roam the skies untouched because of the plane they are in being able to just get out of trouble at will. What we are seeking is a balance for all.
I would say that is a good plan.
Why are the other planes perked and why should the D9 not be perked?
The stated point of the wish is to prevent people currently getting away from getting away.
Your last post was clear that less skilled players would indeed be fodder. Again that's the point of the wish.
You don't have a plan, good or bad. You have a wish for Hitech to to make you happy by changing how other people play.
The posted wish discusses why the 190D should be perked. So far there are no reasons worth spoiling other people's fun.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 29, 2019, 03:48:32 AM
The stated point of the wish is to prevent people currently getting away from getting away.
Your last post was clear that less skilled players would indeed be fodder. Again that's the point of the wish.
You don't have a plan, good or bad. You have a wish for Hitech to to make you happy by changing how other people play.
The posted wish discusses why the 190D should be perked. So far there are no reasons worth spoiling other people's fun.
Again, Are you sure you read what I wrote?
I was pointedly clear that the intent was NOT for that to happen. You are arguing for arguments sake. You always have and always will. There is simply no point in even trying to enter a discussion with you because you insist that I have some ulterior motive when I certainly do not.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 29, 2019, 04:02:02 AM
Yeah the fact is Ack-Ack the game is simply not all that much fun anymore because we get more and more hit and run and less actual combat. There has to be a balance, FLS please note I am saying again, balance. I do not want some poor guy to be my fodder any more than I wish to be someone else's however I have no desire to just be target practice for fast movers.
The truth is, if the balance falls too heavily on either side the result is players not having fun and they leave. Looking at an aircraft and having a discussion as to if it should be perked or not is a valid use of the forum. Assuming we just want more kills is far from the truth however no matter how many times I say it you will not take it at face value. That makes this discussion pointless.
Over the last few months I have removed all but 1 of my accounts from AH. I am currently enjoying World of Warships again. It is a far inferior game to AH but it is more fun because people fight. How does your plan stack up when people leave due to being bored?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: TWCAxew on March 29, 2019, 05:14:09 AM
The people who play a multiplayer game and demand 2 player game play REALLY confuse me. We are not Chuck Norris. The bad guys are not going to line up in an orderly fashion to fight us one at a time.
Wiley.
I never said that I want people to be in a 2 player game or anything related to that. I myself get most enjoyment out of the game when I fly with someone. And don't mind getting ganged. I am just bored with the 190's that I need to dodge from head on because they can't do anything other than that. And when I sneeze in there direction they teleport 3 sectors away and try again.
To come back to a point that was eirlier made why people would hate the idea of changing anything. I gave the example of the recent radar changes. But this thread is maybe even a better example in of itself for a suggestion made to correct the eny for certain planes run into 19 pages of opposition.
Other than that I also agree with everything FESS just said. If you want answers of what I think is best for the game, look there.
DutchVII
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: flippz on March 29, 2019, 06:41:27 AM
The problem is you can't catch them in a slower plane? Fly a faster plane.
But you want to catch them while flying a slower plane. OK then, make everybody else change.
Good plan. :D
Again a band aid on a bullet wound.
So what I get from this statement is “we can’t change there fun but you have to change yours so they can have fun”. I also agree it’s a behavioral issue in the ma these days. But it’s not a bad idea to give them a lil higher eny. There are several that still play that can make a 51 dance and actually fight in them. Monster troggy fess fender are to name a few. It there rare. There’s a band of hombres that ruin there name and making fighting them very redundant and boring. I can fly a 190 or a 51. I can do decent in it. But like others have said you coast with them they start running at 4K away. No offense to but that’s not my style and from the complaints of those hombres and rook yaks it seems most are frustrated with that type fighting. With the limited numbers now days you don’t have a lot of options on fight. There’s really never more then one fight on any one front so the same folks are all ways at that fight. Interject TWO COUNTRY WAR MAY ALSO HELP RESOLVE THAT ISSUE AS WELL.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: gflyer on March 29, 2019, 07:29:19 AM
It is not the average pilot that makes the late war planes boring, it’s the experts who don’t fly anything but them that’s hurting gameplay. Spit 16s, p51ds, Dora’s, yak3s, LA7s, and F4U-1A.. that’s about the only fight you find anymore, perks and eny should be adjusted but so that if you have X number of kills you should have to pay more for them, lots more.
Normal caveats: this is only my opinion and not meant to counter the self-appointed board monitors opinions on what is best for the game.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: FESS67 on March 29, 2019, 07:35:35 AM
I would go with that Gflyer.
Shame to see your squad leave the game you were always a good fight. IMO what made it good was we engaged and (for the most part) stayed engaged to the death.
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: Oldman731 on March 29, 2019, 08:29:23 AM
I was pointedly clear that the intent was NOT for that to happen. You are arguing for arguments sake. You always have and always will. There is simply no point in even trying to enter a discussion with you because you insist that I have some ulterior motive when I certainly do not.
Didn't take you very long to attack me instead of my argument.
We all want balance. You want to define balance to suit your preference.
If nobody wants to leave the MA to duel you what does that mean? It sounds like people are happy doing what they're doing and they don't want to fight your fight. Where do you set the balance when you can't get one other person to duel?
Title: Re: Please perk or reduce the late war monsters
Post by: hitech on March 29, 2019, 09:43:02 AM
There have been far to many rule # 4 violations in this thread to mod them all. so this is cooked.