Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: HighGTrn on March 06, 2008, 02:58:52 PM
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I've flown the P-38J off and on in my 8 months of playing this game and have developed a love/hate relationship with this almost un-tammable animal. In my opinion, the 38 is a beautiful airplane with graceful lines and a unique design. As a child, I once saw a 38 at an airshow and immediately fell in love with it.
A couple of nights ago, I had some luck flying the 38s against some noobs and thought I was the icing on the cake. Shortly after this, I ran up against Delirium and some of his boys and got my butt handed to me. Delirium encouraged me to keep at it so I did. For 3 miserable days, I upped nothing but the J. I had some success but in most cases, I ended up dying in almost every encounter. Again, Delirium continued to encourage me and told me to stick with it. Stuck with it I did and the only thing that improved was my ability to curse and swear as my frustration rose and rose.
The SAPP guys make it look so easy. It seems like they never run out of E, never stall and alway end up chewing me to pieces. Against other airplanes and other pilots that I usually can beat, I end up getting pwn'd while in the J.
I know that to fly the J effectively, I must employ E saving maneuvers, flaps, rudder and some throttle work. For the most part, I start a fight with an E advantage and think I do a pretty good job at SA. I use the vertical as much as possible and keep my nose up in a fight. Despite this, the tables seem to always get turned and I get dispatched back to the tower. It just seems like consistency with flying the 38 is ever evasive for me.
My question is then: Is there a secret to the 38? Perhaps that is what the "S" in SAPP stands for. The secret, holy grail of mastering this beast is out there and the SAPP guys know what it is. Right? For those of you who can fly the 38, <S>.
In game call sign, S1n1ster.
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Here's my first part, more will be coming later. Keep in mind that I am relatively new to the game, and still suck horribly :lol, but this is what I have gained through my experience in flying the 38 in and among some of the best guys in the game and some of the best 38 sticks in the game. I am in no way a good/great stick, but I like to think that I can hold my own most of the time. Ok here we go...
The Lightning is a “strange” aircraft to say the least… As you’ve seen, it’s not an aircraft that just clicks as soon as you get into it. It’s actually one of the harder planes in the game to “master.” That’s because the 38 doesn’t have that one ability that you can utilize against other rides.
For example, the pony and La both have speed, the 109 has its climb, and the spits/zero has its turn radius… you get it. The 38’s greatest strength is that it has no weakness; it does everything ok. It’s greatest weakness though is that it doesn’t have any one great ability; it just does everything ok. That is why it’s such a hard plane to fly efficiently, you’re always (well, most likely) up against someone who has a distinct advantage over you, and if they’re good, they’ll utilize that against you. The “secret” to the 38 is knowing how you stack up against the plane you come up against, and then using each and everyone of your ok/average abilities to overcome your opponent, especially if they are trying to dictate the fight around their one great ability. You also have to know when and where to use each ability.
The 38 really isn’t a cut and dry plane, like others are. The pony is mainly a BnZ type plane; a zeke is a TnB. In the 38 you need to BnZ, TnB, and then combine them, ultimately in the goal of developing a very good E fighting game. You have to be able to switch between various “roles” as the situation calls for, because as we’ve seen, the 38 isn’t suited for one flat out type of style. Having a very solid grasp on BFM, and then stringing that together depending on the situation for ACM, is also key. This is because while being average at say turning, the 38 can “outturn” better turning rides. For example, if you engage a N1KI, and it starts flat turning, using consecutive high and low yo-yo’s will eventually allow you to gain angles on him, and an eventual shot, effectively allowing you to “outturn” him. There are also times when you can out turn a better turning aircraft when you are both flat turning. It’s dependent on your E state relative to him. If you’re at your corner velocity, and he’s not, you might just have the E and better turn rate to turn inside of him for a shot. This is where being able to read an opponents E state comes into play, and in a 38, that’s very important. Strong Situational Awareness is also key in a 38. A 38 has a very big full profile. It’s HUGE. This, combined with the fact that most people view 38’s as just being used on porking missions, and that their pilots can’t really fight, makes people seek you out, almost as much as P-40’s. One of my goals when I first started in a 38 was to try to become good enough so as to help get this stereotype away from 38’s, so that when people would come across a lone 38, they would thing twice about just blinding diving in. But enough of this, you want to know the secrets of the 38 right? 8)
Well, sadly there aren’t any “secrets,” or else I would be a MUCH better pilot then I am now 8). At best, there are only guidelines and suggestions, as each and every encounter is unique and different. There is no one “move” that will automatically win you the fight or save your but each time you get into trouble, but there are things that you can do to help increase your chances at winning a fight and surviving.
The following are some of the things that I feel are especially important when flying around in a 38.
Looping: The 38 LOVES to loop. Without torque, that means you are rock steady at the top, especially at lower speeds. Use this to your advantage-gaining angles and keeping someone off your six. Use that last notch or two of flaps when coming over the top of loops to really get you down (I’ll talk a little more about flaps latter). A variation of a loop that is really critical to get down in the 38 is a stall loop. Basically, its half a loop and half a stall, usually/most of the time done at lower speeds. When coming over the top of a loop, your speed is low enough to the point where you stall your aircraft. Because of the 38 having no torque, your nose just DROPS, and I mean drops down, and you’re instantly back into control. This allows you to get over the top and facing back down quickly, which allows to you lose someone or gain angles quickly as they are either below you, or trying to follow you through a loop all the while fighting their torque and trying not to stall/spin at those low speeds. (Side Note: Going back to the strengths of the 38, if it did have one that it held over the majority of the plane set, it would be the no torque, which allows it to perform beautifully in the vertical, or when flat turning on the deck at stall speeds).
Throttle/Rudder/WEP: The J (what I fly) and the L both have 5 minutes of WEP. That’s the standard in AHII. Only German rides beat you out. I believe, so don’t quote me, that it’s two seconds off of WEP for each second gained back. Basic rule though is don’t waste your WEP getting to the battle. This means in transit, because you’ll need in in combat. As for the throttle, proper work of it (as in most planes) is important. You can’t just have it open the whole fight. There are plenty of times when you will need to back off of it. For example, when I get into rolling scissors, lots of times I find myself backing off the throttle for a second or two, just to keep my speed in check. This allows me to not have to much speed over my opponent. Infact, I cut my throttle so they get faster and so they get out in front of me. Also, when in a dive, sometimes you’ll want to back off the throttle so as not to buffet/let you speed build up to much. Contrary to popular belief, getting fast in a dive in a 38 really isn’t that much of a problem. Under 20000 feet, where you’ll be fighting most of the time, you will not compress 99% of the time. You’ll feel you’re controls start to tighten up, but as long as you have trim mapped handy, you’ll be good. I regularly get speeds up to 450/500 and rarely use trim to get out. Just cut throttle and use rudders to bleed speed as necessary. The only negative effect you will see in the J from these fight speeds is a very bad roll rate. Rudders. Rudders are very important in a 38. From getting that last second front quarter shot in to helping in controlling your speed. The single most important thing about using rudders in a 38 for me (besides gunnery) is in assisting in your roll. 38’s have never been known for their roll, infact its among some of the worst. Use rudder in the direction of your roll to help increase it. This will allow you to help stay in phase with someone you’re following, or help you get out of phase when someone is one your six.
Flaps Flaps are something that you’re going to have to get familiar with. The 38 needs and loves them, but they can also hurt you by sapping your E. The flaps on the 38 will suck you dry of E. Because of this, you never want to leave them out longer then you have to. Sorry that I can’t be more specific on when to and not to use them though. That is something that you’ll have to develop by just getting into a lot of fights with a 38 and using flaps. Eventually it will become second nature, and you’ll know when to drop them, and then whether to keep them out or suck them in. Just keep in mind that the 38 does benefit from them, and does need them, so don’t be afraid to drop them when you think you need them, it’s not going to totally screw you over if you keep them out forever, it will just make things harder. Another place the 38 excels at, and needs its flaps when doing, is a low speed spiral climb. Full flaps, with WEP, the 38 can spiral climb at very slow speeds, because of it not having to fight torque. I’ve been in many situations where I’m spiral climbing under 100 mph with a enemy 200 off my six, but they just can’t quite get their nose up on me. They’re fighting torque, and eventually they’re going to either shoot under me because their forward speed is greater then mine and I’m climbing over them, or they are going to stall out trying to pull up into to high of a AoA for a shot on me. Use this to your advantage, as this leads into using the vertical.
Using the Vertical The vertical is where the 38 really excels against other opponents, because it does not have to fight torque like single engine fighters do. Loops, spiral climbs, and yo-yo’s will help you to conserve E, while playing into the 38’s strengths, and most likely the enemy’s weakness (torque/ bad climb/ etc). Roping once into a fight is one of my main tactics against people, and while I do get caught, more often then not, people underestimate the 38’s zoom or its ability to hang in the vert, and they end up under me and my guns, which, if it weren’t for my horrible aim, would be very bad for them. Just be careful though, unless you are certain you’re just fighting that one opponent and you know his E and yours, don’t hang to much, as you might need to dodge an incoming new threat, or abort a rope or whatever if you see your opponent has more E then you. While being incredible solid at low speeds/high AoA, the 38 still isn’t going to just magically maneuver away from someone who decides to pick you.
donkey
Continued below because of character limit.
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I'd be interested in that too. I've always stayed away from the 38 because the last thing I need is to be a bigger target :rofl
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Here’s some more general thoughts/tips on the 38.
Fuel Most of your sorties will be with either be 50% with or without DT or 75% with or without DT. Take 25% if you’re upping out of a CAPed base in order to try and break it. 25 gives you about 9 minutes. I take just 50 if the fight is close to base or within the sector. 50 and a DT if I have to travel a little before the fight. I take 75 only as a substitute for 50 and a DT if I think I’ll be traveling to the fight and plan on staying a little. Basically I do it so as to lose the drag form the DT. 75 and a DT is for when we decide to fly two sectors to start up a fight, and I plane on a somewhat long transit and hopefully staying in the area a long time.
Guns Besides the 262’s quad 30 mm’s or any plane with quad 20 hizookas, I think the 38’s gun package is the most lethal in the game. With 4 50’s and a 20mm hizooka, you’re set for tracking, snapshots, whatever. Center lining means that it’s even that MUCH MORE LETHAL. No convergence is necessary since they are on the centerline. I set them to the max, as do other people, it’s really personal preference. Take any shot you can get with the 50’s and add the 20 (I have a dual stage trigger) for snapshots, or close in shots).
Ords The 38 has one of the best or packages in the game. 2k in bombs is available for all 38’s. The G and J have six rockets available, but they are in tube rockets. I only take the rockets in my J if I’m on a dedicated gv or town/field busting run. The rocket tubes do cause drag, and therefore hurt you acceleration/climb/speed etc. The L though does not have rocket tubes, and carries 10 rockets total, and therefore it the default ground pounder for most.
Views Not much to say. I find in general, that once you set your vies to eliminate the canopy bars, your views are pretty good. Not Pony good, but up there. I find the six view is pretty good to. I’d rate it a 9 out of 10 with a pony six view being a 10. Over the nose, and general forward views are pretty decent also. Just remember to set your views to move the canopy bars out of view for your side and quarter shots, then you’ll be golden.
General Performance
Just a little general performance to show you how it stacks up. Visit gonzogos (sorry butchered his name I know 8) ) site for better information on its stats. In general, the 38 tends to stand out more and more against the competition as you get higher.
Acceleration is alright down low. Not great but not bad. I’d rate it a little better then average. Up in the skies, it’s actually one the better accelerators in the game.
Climb isn’t to bad either. You will out climb all other American rides. Most German planes will out climb you, as will most spits. La’s and the KI-84 along with the N1KI will give you some problems on the deck, but they’re performance, especially the LA drastically drops as you get higher. As a general rule of thumb, if you’re faster then it, most of the time you can climb better.
Speed really isn’t that great. It’s faster then a Hurri mk 1 or an FM2, but with most of the planes you’ll meet in the late war arenas, you’ll be at the lower end of the speed chain. WEP does help you out, but you’re still going to be slower then most. It does get a lot better relative to most other rides as you get higher up, but most fights occur down low/on the deck.
Dive has already been covered, but ask if you’ve got questions on it still.
Maneuverability. The 38 is heavy and big, but can still compete with most rides, especially because of it being very steady due to no torque. I’d rate it above an above average turner, but that still doesn’t mean you should try to turn with everything you see. Just fly a lot, and push the limits, and find out when and where you should attempt to turn with people. NOTE: Turn doesn’t just mean flat turn. Turn in the vertical also.
Landing is very easy in the 38 because of the tricycle carriage. Combined with no torque, you can easily pull of landings that single engine fights would have some trouble with. You also don’t need that much runway because you can come down full flaps, and be at low speeds without fear of torque turning you over.
Overall, the 38 is a very good all around fighter. It’s got the range, payload, and ability to actually dogfight. It’s going to be an aircraft that you’re going to have to devote yourself to though if you’re planning on trying to get good at it, which is why a lot of people are initially turned away from it. But if you put in the time, get with trainers, and work on it, the 38 has all of the ingredients needed to allow you to become a great, all around pilot. Just keep with it if you’re serious about the 38. And most importantly have fun, that’s what it’s all about. :aok :aok
donkey
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Nice write up Donkey ! :aok
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Thanx, that's quite helpful :)
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The 38 is a very tough plane to learn. Donkey covered an awful lot (exceptionally well) so I dont want to delve into the plane itself (also i'm not a great 38 driver)...but I can add a few general comments that might help you.
In the end we can break AH pilots in to a couple of subsets (potentially overlapping). We have guys (and gals) who are plane dependent. We have some that are SA dependent and we have some that are furballers and others that are 1 on 1 assasins. All have a preferred "tool for the job". None of them will pick the 38 first (even though it can do them all).
So who flies the 38 "really well"...the guy who gets in the other guys head. The 38 is very pilot dependent and its a camelion, it'll be whatever the guy driving it wants it to be (or wills it to be). To win in a 38 you have to beat the other pilot....not the other plane.
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Thanx, that's quite helpful :)
No problem. I hope it was, as my wrists hurt now :aok :lol. Also, HighG, humble covered that great too. The 38 isn't like a Spit where you can just jump in and find it a easier time then other planes, even though it can do all of those jobs. Most of the pilots you see in the 38 have been playing this game a long time, and because of that most of the dedicated 38 pilots are great sticks, but also great guys! I'm sure none of them would have a problem taking you to the TA if you wanted to learn the 38. I'd list some of them, but like someone said a few threads back, if I did I would surely be leaving out others.
donkey
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Wow Donkey!! Thanks so much for the awesome write up. I've followed your postings and have analyzed your films to death. This one by far has been the most helpful in a series of a lot of valuable posts you have contributed.
You have re-energized my commitment to learning this airplane. If you see S1n1ster being shot down a lot in the MA (or happen to the be person sending me down in flames) while I'm in the 38, you'll know that I'm working on my skills. So if you want an easy kill (for now), search me out in the MA, challenge me in the DA or help me out in the TA.
One more question. This isn't 38 specific but it does seem to affect me in the 38 more so than other planes. When in a tracking shot or saddled up position, how do you keep your eye on the target when you are pulling for lead and he goes out of sight below your cowling? Its hard enough for me to get into this position in the first place and when I do and finally pull lead and fire, the target will slip out of phase and I end up missing completely.
Thanks again Donkey!
S1n1ster
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First thing you have to do, in particular early in the 38 flying, is quit worrying about dying. Folks tend to shoot at those big old targets.
And as one who has been dying in a 38 since the AW days, trust me on this :)
I fly the 38G 99% of the time. I've been taking the 38J a bit more lately if the fight is further away as my G is so slow. The J is easier to live longer in with the extra speed and the wep. I tend to find myself fighting much more in the vertical in the J though and not turning as much. In the G, as any of the 80th guys will tell you, I'll be the one in the middle of 5 on the deck turning and more then likely burning, trying to see how long I can last before I die.
Bottom line is relax and have fun in it. Some days you'll feel like you've got it all figured out. Then the next day, you'll do nothing but die in it....well that's what I do anyway :)
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First thing you have to do, in particular early in the 38 flying, is quit worrying about dying. Folks tend to shoot at those big old targets.
And as one who has been dying in a 38 since the AW days, trust me on this :)
I fly the 38G 99% of the time. I've been taking the 38J a bit more lately if the fight is further away as my G is so slow. The J is easier to live longer in with the extra speed and the wep. I tend to find myself fighting much more in the vertical in the J though and not turning as much. In the G, as any of the 80th guys will tell you, I'll be the one in the middle of 5 on the deck turning and more then likely burning, trying to see how long I can last before I die.
Bottom line is relax and have fun in it. Some days you'll feel like you've got it all figured out. Then the next day, you'll do nothing but die in it....well that's what I do anyway :)
100% agree with you guppy, the P38G is my personal favorite Lightning, even if I'm a 109 pilot, i just love that light bomber :). The obscured cockpit suits me fine since the 109 has a similar cockpit, and i can make her do things above average, just have to keep my E up majority of the time, and i always fly with the 475th and there 38s as wingmen :).
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Nice write up Donkey! :aok
NOW HUSH! ;)
Don't let all the "secrets" out! :t :D :lol :aok
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In the MA I find that the 38 excels when used with wingman tactics. One only has to run across Pawz and Lazer together to understand that. 1 v 1 the 38 isn't overpowering and often finds itself with a bogey on its tail. The trick that good wingman have figured out is that it will take a considerably longer time to get a firing solution on a 38 as it carries it's E very well. This gives the wingman time to easily slip in behind the unwary agressive pilot. Every time I slip in behind a 38 now I figure on competing with one on my 6.
Many is the time that I have found myself within 5 seconds of a kill shot on Pawz or Lazer only to find myself getting hammered from the 6 by the other and going down in flames. probably 25% of those situations I am making hits on the 38 but at G400-600 ranges in an attempt to hurry the kill and get the other off my 6, refusing to believe that I don't have time.
Besides carrying E well the 38 is a great turner if used properly with a combination of flaps, throttle, wep, and rpms. Finding that magical combination will take a long time (more time than I have patience for) which is why I don't fly it in fighter mode.
In attack mode the 38 is combarable to the pony and often greater. It lacks enough protectection and speed to work de-acking a field but will get ou home with the one engine you usually have after one pass on ack, ord, or radar. I prefer the pony in that mode.
I feel for you trying to learn the 38 but sticking with it is the answer. I have spent 18 months learning one plane and I still have a long way to go. I can only be appreciative of the fact that when we die we get another unlike our counterparts who flew these in combat.
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I've done just fine taking 100% fuel in the J and L almost all the time. Unless the fight is low and close to the base I'm upping from. Being such a big target I'm bound to get fuel leaks and running out of fuel is no fun.
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In the MA I find that the 38 excels when used with wingman tactics. One only has to run across Pawz and Lazer together to understand that. 1 v 1 the 38 isn't overpowering and often finds itself with a bogey on its tail. The trick that good wingman have figured out is that it will take a considerably longer time to get a firing solution on a 38 as it carries it's E very well. This gives the wingman time to easily slip in behind the unwary agressive pilot. Every time I slip in behind a 38 now I figure on competing with one on my 6.
Many is the time that I have found myself within 5 seconds of a kill shot on Pawz or Lazer only to find myself getting hammered from the 6 by the other and going down in flames. probably 25% of those situations I am making hits on the 38 but at G400-600 ranges in an attempt to hurry the kill and get the other off my 6, refusing to believe that I don't have time.
Boy you got that right Hunter. Just this last Tues when the SAPP had their night I was in this position many times. I would get saddled up behind one of them, seconds from a kill when BAM! Its weird cause it seems like they came out of no where. When I saddle up, I always do a quick check 6 cause that's when I usually get jumped. Last Tuesday was no different than any other occasion but they seem to be everywhere and no where. It was real frustrating. Delirium invited me to join a radio channel at 8 Eastern to fly with SAPP but I decided to tune into my squad channel instead that night. Shoulda coulda woulda...
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And as one who has been dying in a 38 since the AW days, trust me on this :)
FARKING NOOB :O
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Wow Donkey!! Thanks so much for the awesome write up. I've followed your postings and have analyzed your films to death. This one by far has been the most helpful in a series of a lot of valuable posts you have contributed.
You have re-energized my commitment to learning this airplane. If you see S1n1ster being shot down a lot in the MA (or happen to the be person sending me down in flames) while I'm in the 38, you'll know that I'm working on my skills. So if you want an easy kill (for now), search me out in the MA, challenge me in the DA or help me out in the TA.
One more question. This isn't 38 specific but it does seem to affect me in the 38 more so than other planes. When in a tracking shot or saddled up position, how do you keep your eye on the target when you are pulling for lead and he goes out of sight below your cowling? Its hard enough for me to get into this position in the first place and when I do and finally pull lead and fire, the target will slip out of phase and I end up missing completely.
Thanks again Donkey!
S1n1ster
Well, I guess part of that depends for far away from you they are when you start to pull lead, because the amount of lead you pull will vary. But for me, I have my pipper set as high as it can go on the reflector, and more my head back a little, which helps me see over the nose better. I also have my guns set out to the max, which "lobs" them just a little extra bit. This all helps me on shots that are not that high or an angle of tail.
As you can see in this pic, this is where I have my view set.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/dadonkey1234/regularforview-1.jpg)
Additionally, I have another easy to reach button set for a second forward view, which I have my "head" set all the way forward, and a little above normal so as to get a better view over the nose and to see under the forward canopy framing. You can see that here. I pretty much use this view, along with a little zoom, on just about every shot as I think it gives me a better "viewing" picture of what I'm shooting at, and with the zoom, it makes the enemy plane bigger which seems to help me in computing lead and hitting it.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/dadonkey1234/forwardnotzoomed.jpg)
What I'm guess your talking about is when, for example, you on someone's six about 300-600 out and they pull into a steep climb lets say... If you want to get a shot, your going to have to pull a lot of lead, and like you say they slip under your nose. Because of that, I usually won't go for the lead on those shots if they're close to me, say 350/400 or closer, and instead go lag and follow them around the loop, knowing they'll have less E after that, and if they try again, I won't have to pull as much lead. It's really just going to come with practice knowing when to go for it or not. Also, if I do go for that shot, I'll shoot for a second or two, and then ease off and reaquire them. Try that and see how you do. :aok
donkey
PS: If you see me in around, give me a shout and we can wing or whatever. Also, if you want some films to watch (not sure which ones you've seen), check out the film section thread "AHF Thread," perhaps you can learn something from some of those.
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1 v 1 the 38 isn't overpowering and often finds itself with a bogey on its tail.
Depends on who's driving the P-38 really. P-38 is no worse or better than any other plane in a 1v1, since it really boils down to who's at the controls.
Besides carrying E well the 38 is a great turner if used properly with a combination of flaps, throttle, wep, and rpms. Finding that magical combination will take a long time (more time than I have patience for) which is why I don't fly it in fighter mode.
There really is no benefit to adjusting the RPMs in the P-38 unless you want to extend your flight time and with how close bases mostly are, just bring along drop tanks if you want to extend your cruise time instead of messing with the RPMs.
In attack mode the 38 is combarable to the pony and often greater. It lacks enough protectection and speed to work de-acking a field but will get ou home with the one engine you usually have after one pass on ack, ord, or radar. I prefer the pony in that mode.
I think the P-38s are far better attack planes than the Mustang. The L can carry more rockets and is a lot tougher than the Mustang. The only real thing that hinders the P-38 as a ground attack plane in here is the ease is which you can suffer a pilot wound. A kid giving you the evil eye is enough to wound the pilot.
I feel for you trying to learn the 38 but sticking with it is the answer. I have spent 18 months learning one plane and I still have a long way to go. I can only be appreciative of the fact that when we die we get another unlike our counterparts who flew these in combat.
True axiom for the P-38 as well as any other plane in the game.
I think the reason why the P-38 isn't more popular because it's ease is deceptive. If you are only going to fly it as an Energy fighter and employ pure BnZ tactics, it's rather easy to fly but if you want to get down and dirty in it, the experience needed to be successful sky rockets. The result is, a lot of players get turned off on it because to be successful in the P-38, you do have to know both Energy fighting and Angles fighting and be able to switch between both styles during a fight with no more than a passing thought.
ack-ack
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I think the reason why the P-38 isn't more popular because it's ease is deceptive. If you are only going to fly it as an Energy fighter and employ pure BnZ tactics, it's rather easy to fly but if you want to get down and dirty in it, the experience needed to be successful sky rockets. The result is, a lot of players get turned off on it because to be successful in the P-38, you do have to know both Energy fighting and Angles fighting and be able to switch between both styles during a fight with no more than a passing thought.
ack-ack
Quote for emphasis.
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I'm finding myself loving and loving the P38 more and more as i fly it, sure i get shot down more times than not with it, but it's a beautiful plane to fly, and shes deadly with a skilled stick behind the wheel. I won't be able to continue my training with it for 5 months or so, since I'll be deploying soon.
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think the P-38s are far better attack planes than the Mustang. The L can carry more rockets and is a lot tougher than the Mustang. The only real thing that hinders the P-38 as a ground attack plane in here is the ease is which you can suffer a pilot wound. A kid giving you the evil eye is enough to wound the pilot. Quoted from Ack Ack
The #1 reason why I don't like attack runs in the 38, in fact 99% of my 38 flights I get a pilot wound, I could blame the plane, but it is really my fault. In fighter situations the 38 has a little trick that I haven't figuered out yet. I get on there six and they turn hard left (usually), spin , and climb all at the same time, puts them on my six every time, it drives me nuts!
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I won't be able to continue my training with it for 5 months or so, since I'll be deploying soon.
Good luck over there and watch your six (hmmm... 360!) <S> :aok
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The P-38 is not "tougher" then a mustang. Not in AH it aint.
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well with an engine hit in the p51 your done, in the 38 you get to go home, so i'd say its more durable
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The P-38 is not "tougher" then a mustang. Not in AH it aint.
*sigh*
ack-ack
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*sigh*
ack-ack
Don't disagree with him Ack, he'll put you on his "ignore" list :t
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^^ lol
I should also say that if you plan on learning the P-38 (as with all planes I guess) film every time you fly, no matter what. I film every time spawn somewhere, and then go back and watch a film of a 1v1 or 2v1 or whatever else where I want to see my mistakes/good points, and I'll watch that film from different views, angles, etc multiple times, and then I'll save it for latter and do it again the next day.
Also, the one time you don't film is the time you have that perfect 1v1 that's movie worthy. :aok
donkey
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^^ lol
I should also say that if you plan on learning the P-38 (as with all planes I guess) film every time you fly, no matter what. I film every time spawn somewhere, and then go back and watch a film of a 1v1 or 2v1 or whatever else where I want to see my mistakes/good points, and I'll watch that film from different views, angles, etc multiple times, and then I'll save it for latter and do it again the next day.
Also, the one time you don't film is the time you have that perfect 1v1 that's movie worthy. :aok
donkey
This filming business also works well when blackmailing other AH pilots who claim to have done nothing foolish ever. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and in the right hands potentially millions of dollars :)
And yes I've seen Donkey fly...if you can call it that :D
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think the P-38s are far better attack planes than the Mustang. The L can carry more rockets and is a lot tougher than the Mustang. The only real thing that hinders the P-38 as a ground attack plane in here is the ease is which you can suffer a pilot wound. A kid giving you the evil eye is enough to wound the pilot. Quoted from Ack Ack
The #1 reason why I don't like attack runs in the 38, in fact 99% of my 38 flights I get a pilot wound, I could blame the plane, but it is really my fault. In fighter situations the 38 has a little trick that I haven't figuered out yet. I get on there six and they turn hard left (usually), spin , and climb all at the same time, puts them on my six every time, it drives me nuts!
Ahhh yes the dreaded spiral climb.......
Must be used carefully however, with an experienced eye as to the other pilots energy state.
The P-38 can really hang in the vert.
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This filming business also works well when blackmailing other AH pilots who claim to have done nothing foolish ever. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and in the right hands potentially millions of dollars :)
And yes I've seen Donkey fly...if you can call it that :D
hehe yeah dan I need lessons on how to progress on from "helpless flopper."
oh, and I need to show you the film of me and mensa winging and inpersonating "auto-climbing" with you, which I hear, is the complete opposite of a autoclimb. :rofl
donkey
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Well, its been interesting to say the least. After digesting all this info and spending time in the TA pushing my J to the envelope, I logged into the MA last night and had a lot of fun. The first thing I did was check my ego at the door and completely put scores out of my mind. Once in this mindset, I really was able to fortify everything I learned. Last but not least, I was actually having fun in my J.
Did I get killed a lot? Yes I did get shot down but not as nearly as much as a week ago. ACM is ACM but flying a J in a high target rich environment really reminds you of your limitations. Once I understood that there are things I can absolutely do vs. things I should not even think about, the rest was second nature. In fact, most of the times I got killed was not when I was doing my thing. The majority of my deaths were a result of putting myself into a bad situation trying to save a squadie or two.
To show you how difficult it is to master a 38, I will use an example from last night. I had to take off from a CV to help with a base take. Since the Essex class carriers did not provide me with a 38, I went to my fall back plane which was the 1A Hog. In one sortie, I quickly dispatched 3 kills in a furball. Flying the Hog after flying the J was MUCH easier. As for the J, I'm HOOKED!
S1n1ster
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hehe yeah dan I need lessons on how to progress on from "helpless flopper."
oh, and I need to show you the film of me and mensa winging and inpersonating "auto-climbing" with you, which I hear, is the complete opposite of a autoclimb. :rofl
donkey
Just cause I'm always dipping the wings to look around...Sheesh! :)
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Well, its been interesting to say the least. After digesting all this info and spending time in the TA pushing my J to the envelope, I logged into the MA last night and had a lot of fun. The first thing I did was check my ego at the door and completely put scores out of my mind. Once in this mindset, I really was able to fortify everything I learned. Last but not least, I was actually having fun in my J.
Did I get killed a lot? Yes I did get shot down but not as nearly as much as a week ago. ACM is ACM but flying a J in a high target rich environment really reminds you of your limitations. Once I understood that there are things I can absolutely do vs. things I should not even think about, the rest was second nature. In fact, most of the times I got killed was not when I was doing my thing. The majority of my deaths were a result of putting myself into a bad situation trying to save a squadie or two.
To show you how difficult it is to master a 38, I will use an example from last night. I had to take off from a CV to help with a base take. Since the Essex class carriers did not provide me with a 38, I went to my fall back plane which was the 1A Hog. In one sortie, I quickly dispatched 3 kills in a furball. Flying the Hog after flying the J was MUCH easier. As for the J, I'm HOOKED!
S1n1ster
You've learned one of the major secrets of the 38 and AH. If you can check the ego at the door and not worry about the score, you are much more likely to push yourself and take some risks, which can only lead to learning more along with dying alot. Naturally I've got that last part down, but if you don't push it, and only fly 'safe', you'll never find the edges of the envelope. And it's funny as hell to find yourself in the middle of 6-8 red planes all falling over themselves trying to shoot you down :)
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Corky,
Flying the 38 is like flying a big "shoot me first" sign on your forehead. No matter where you are in the mix, everyone immediately locks on to you and tries to kill you. Now this bring up a philosophical point. I learned that in AH, you always wanted to engage the most dangerous threat first and then work your way down to the least dangerous threat last. If this is the case, everyone must be scared to death of people flying the Lightning cause I know that I'm not the only who feels like a cheap date in Honolulu when the 7th Fleet arrives after 6 months at sea when I'm in the 38.
The flip side of the debate is that everyone thinks you are an easy kill so they pounce on you. The first time I tangled with Del, my squadies certaintly thought that and the result was vastly different than what they expected. I went immediately for him cause I was in a 38 and wanted to fight another 38. After getting dispatched, I upped another 38 and went after him again.
The sight I saw was pretty funny. I took off into the direction I last saw him. At a distance, I could see 5 or 6 dots hording this one single dot. As I got closer, I saw one red icon in a sea of green icons. What was funny was while the red icon was doing loops, rolls and turns, the green icons were blowing up and being vaporized. He must have had his tracers off cause I never saw any shots, just people blowing up. I was chuckling to myself hysterically while watching this unfold. As I got into the fight, someone says "watchout, that's Delirium in that 38 (I knew it wasnt AKAK cause he was co-alt with everyone he was fighting). :lol
S1n1ster
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To me, that's the fun of it. I know that my 38G is going to be jumped. I'd also like to think that folks are understanding that the majority of 38 drivers are up looking for a fight too. Having flown with some great 38 sticks over the years I know how much fun it is to watch folks like Del, Lazer, Soulyss, Raptor, Murdr, AKAK etc dive into a brawl and come out the other side intact. Someday I'll get there.
Funny thing with AKAK is the 38 drivers know that he's nasty fighting on the deck, but his reputation is that he's some sort of alt monkey. I don't know that I've ever been to 10K flying with him, but then again he never says anything to deny his alt monkey tag.
There are some other guys who used to fly 38s more often that can really tear it up too. Kappa comes to mind. KillnU in his 38 days was great fun to watch. The list goes on and on :)
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I don't know that I've ever been to 10K flying with him, but then again he never says anything to deny his alt monkey tag.
Why bother? People will believe what they want to believe, despite facts to the contrary.
For example, the other night in the MW, I got into a fight with a Ki-61 that had 5,000ft advantage over me. I got him on the reversal over shoot, first thing he does is call me an alt monkey HO on open channel. So, again, why bother?
I might as well have fun with it.
ack-ack
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I warned AkAk that if he didn't stop killing me that I would post proof.
I only give 1 warning, yet he killed me several more times (I don't think that I ever pinged him).
So as promised:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1144_1205183207_akaklowalt.jpg)
That is not 381K by the way, you can't even see the curvature of the earth :rofl
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To me, that's the fun of it. I know that my 38G is going to be jumped. I'd also like to think that folks are understanding that the majority of 38 drivers are up looking for a fight too. Having flown with some great 38 sticks over the years I know how much fun it is to watch folks like Del, Lazer, Soulyss, Raptor, Murdr, AKAK etc dive into a brawl and come out the other side intact. Someday I'll get there.
Funny thing with AKAK is the 38 drivers know that he's nasty fighting on the deck, but his reputation is that he's some sort of alt monkey. I don't know that I've ever been to 10K flying with him, but then again he never says anything to deny his alt monkey tag.
There are some other guys who used to fly 38s more often that can really tear it up too. Kappa comes to mind. KillnU in his 38 days was great fun to watch. The list goes on and on :)
Wait, kappa doesn't fly the 38 anymore?
donkey
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Wait, kappa doesn't fly the 38 anymore?
donkey
Not a much as he used to. I had to give him a hard time a while back cause he was landing kills in an LA7 :)
109Ks, F4Us etc. He's just killing in more planes then just the 38 these days
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Not a much as he used to. I had to give him a hard time a while back cause he was landing kills in an LA7 :)
109Ks, F4Us etc. He's just killing in more planes then just the 38 these days
Got it.
donkey
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Funny thing with AKAK is the 38 drivers know that he's nasty fighting on the deck, but his reputation is that he's some sort of alt monkey. I don't know that I've ever been to 10K flying with him, but then again he never says anything to deny his alt monkey tag.
Thats the funny thing too, i can't tell you how many times i've seen AKAK dive to the deck (we're squaddies in the 479th) and get into it, while i'm staying up high scared to death. Going AK your crazy...alot of the times he kills 4 or 5 of them and goes back too land. Maybe with one engine out or a little damage.
Then i hear people complaining that he's an alt monkey when he just dove into a pack of 5 enemy cons on the deck and came out alive.
You know what that boils down too..... Well it falls from cattle and be careful you don't step in it.
:aok :rock :salute....AKAK..... :)
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I find it halarious that I was wingman with the acclaimed "P-38 alt monkey" of Air Warrior. Once some guys went so far as to parady our squad site, complete with a picture of looking out over a moonscape from a 38 cockpit, with instructions that "when it looks like this, you're almost high enough".
So then I come here and squad up with the guy that has the upper level of the atmosphere named after him :)
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Well, I'm man enough to admit that if I'm sticking needles in an AKAK voodoo doll, it is because he is good in a P-38 and nearly impossible to deal with, especially while flying a 190A5. On the other hand, I love the guy when on the same side, he scares them so bad they often don't see little old me coming down 'em :t
The unvarnished Truth about flight sims: One can never win with a jury of one's peers, consisting of peeps you just shot down.
Kill a guy who doesn't see you, you are a "picker".
Kill a guy from any angle within 90 degrees of his nose, you a "ho tard".
Kill a guy in a more maneuverable plane using angles tactics, you are a "dweeb".
Kill a guy in a less manueverable plane using E tactics, you are an "alt monkey".
Kill a guy in a worse turning, worse climbing, slower plane with an alt disadvantage, you are a "HACKER"!!! :O
Players, for your own sanity, turn off the "Retarded Lemur Theatre" playing continously 200, try to do no talking and show no emotions to the enema, win or lose, and if you do loose, just pray to dark Cthulhu that the guy who just shot you down comes down with runny Leprosy and double Ebola. It does your heart just as much good as smack talk, and the unwary might actually be fooled into believing you are a nice guy and a good sport. :devil
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So then I come here and squad up with the guy that has the upper level of the atmosphere named after him :)
Admit it, you joined the 479th so you could visit my super cool space station. Chicks dig guys that live in space stations.
ack-ack
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The unvarnished Truth about flight sims: One can never win with a jury of one's peers, consisting of peeps you just shot down.
Kill a guy who doesn't see you, you are a "picker".
Kill a guy from any angle within 90 degrees of his nose, you a "ho tard".
Kill a guy in a more maneuverable plane using angles tactics, you are a "dweeb".
Kill a guy in a less manueverable plane using E tactics, you are an "alt monkey".
Kill a guy in a worse turning, worse climbing, slower plane with an alt disadvantage, you are a "HACKER"!!! :O
That is just sooo true :lol :noid
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That is just sooo true :lol :noid
and soooo SAD!!!!
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Normally, I just check the SAPP forums but Guppy/Corky told me you were looking for me, S1n1ster. Thanks for the kind praise, but I am by far the worst P38 stick in the 80th and SAPP as well, I tend to fly and shoot like a blind, deaf man with Parkinson's.
The p38 is an easy plane to fly, hard to master and like Corky said, it doesn't reward timidness. You are going to get your bellybutton handed to you so many times you'll feel like you're the main course at a gay bar, but do not give up.
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Don't listen to Del on the part about how bad a 38 pilot he is. Getting whupped by him as well as a 1/2 dozen other I can think of in a 38, is the rule and not the exception.
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Don't listen to Del on the part about how bad a 38 pilot he is. Getting whupped by him as well as a 1/2 dozen other I can think of in a 38, is the rule and not the exception.
What Murdr said. Del is scary in the 38....then again so is Murdr :)
Fun guys to fly with
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just pray to dark Cthulhu that the guy who just shot you down comes down with runny Leprosy and double Ebola.
I'm also available for birthday parties and bar mitzvah's. :D
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How bout a bat mitzvah for my friends? :D
Oh btw guys, I'm going to get flambéd, shot, and likely hanged for this but what advantages does the P-38 have against something like a Spitfire VIII? I.e., the obvious would be no torque and thus the ability to zoom endlessly but does anyone else find that the turn rate of the P-38J seems to be faster than most a/c at very low speeds, particularly but not exclusive to the vertical?
Ive been wanting to fly the bird for a long time now so I'd like some advice from you SAPPers. I've checked out Murdr's and Ack-Ack's films, btw, great job guys! :aok
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How bout a bat mitzvah for my friends? :D
Oh btw guys, I'm going to get flambéd, shot, and likely hanged for this but what advantages does the P-38 have against something like a Spitfire VIII? I.e., the obvious would be no torque and thus the ability to zoom endlessly but does anyone else find that the turn rate of the P-38J seems to be faster than most a/c at very low speeds, particularly but not exclusive to the vertical?
Ive been wanting to fly the bird for a long time now so I'd like some advice from you SAPPers. I've checked out Murdr's and Ack-Ack's films, btw, great job guys! :aok
One of the best tips I can give for fighting against a Spitfire Mk VIII or any other Spitfire for that matter is never engage in an angles fight in the medium speed range. You'll just be chewed to bits if you do. If at all possible, keep the fight fast, above 300mph IAS, ideally in the 300mph to 350mph IAS range. If you do get caught slow, try to get the fight as slow as possible, ideally in the stall speed range to take advantage of the P-38's better low/stall speed handling and use maneuvers like stall loops and the Cloverleaf and you may just walk away the victor.
ack-ack
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One of the best tips I can give for fighting against a Spitfire Mk VIII or any other Spitfire for that matter is never engage in an angles fight in the medium speed range. You'll just be chewed to bits if you do. If at all possible, keep the fight fast, above 300mph IAS, ideally in the 300mph to 350mph IAS range. If you do get caught slow, try to get the fight as slow as possible, ideally in the stall speed range to take advantage of the P-38's better low/stall speed handling and use maneuvers like stall loops and the Cloverleaf and you may just walk away the victor.
ack-ack
(http://utenti.lycos.it/doh/indexfiles/homer_doh.gif)
So thats what I've been doing wrong! :D
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Ive been wanting to fly the bird for a long time now so I'd like some advice from you SAPPers. I've checked out Murdr's and Ack-Ack's films, btw, great job guys! :aok
Where can I find these films?
<S>
Yossarian
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THIS IS THE LINK (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/index.php?page=func/library) from Ak-AKs signature
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I think it's been discussed before, but with no confirmation. Is our P-38J (-10 or -15 not sure) a little too heavy? I suspect we have a J-15 with re-engineered electrical systems since my right prop doesn't run away when my left engine dies.
I mean here's no possible way it could POSSIBLY be the same weight as the P-38L even though it is in this game and every book/internet source I've read so far states that the P-38L's weight is correct.
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Ack Ack hit the jugular with that post. That's exactly how I think when I'm flying P38 vs pretty much every t/b aircraft. Not always successfully, but that's the goal.
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Just gotta out of the MA ... was flying the G model over GV land most the night... what a blast ... I love the way it handles ... even w/no wep. Kept the nose at 2 on the ROC out meter.. kept speed about 200-250 .. didnt really care what alt I achieved ... man it turned like a dream .. dove great .. was a BLAST !! I would like to hit the TA for some additional 38 training .. if and when time permits .. Been flying since 96 AW FR Arena, the 38 is one of the hardest planes to master and seems to take the most patience. Reminded me of the AW days ... 5k fites over the pond.
One question ... tho .. is it better to trim the ride manually or combat trim ?
Later's
Tokenjo, Jospe.
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yea, Tokenjo. I've read more than once to keep the trim at neutral at all times. I did so and there is a handling difference but I'm not sure if I was achieving anything. Let's wait for a SAPP to clarify...
Random thought: everytime i transition to a new a/c someone starts tonnes of threads on that plane. I feel stalked. :noid
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yea, Tokenjo. I've read more than once to keep the trim at neutral at all times. I did so and there is a handling difference but I'm not sure if I was achieving anything. Let's wait for a SAPP to clarify...
Random thought: everytime i transition to a new a/c someone starts tonnes of threads on that plane. I feel stalked. :noid
LOL you feel stalked?
Try flying the 38G all the time :)
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LOL you feel stalked?
Try flying the 38G all the time :)
Or any 38 for that matter. Its got a uber magnetized hull. Attracts cons and bullets alike. :lol
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One question ... tho .. is it better to trim the ride manually or combat trim ?
Later's
Tokenjo, Jospe.
No CT at any time in a 38. Manual trim, leave it neutral, and only use it to pull out of steep dives when/if needed.
donkey
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Just clipped a new 38 ahf film
3-20-06.zip (https://home.comcast.net/~tdalesr/3-20-08.zip)
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Using CT has the DISadvantage of trimming your nose up as you slow at the top of a loop, or climbs. One of the biggest advantages of the 38 is to NOT have any torque problems the single engine planes have. So looping at 75 knots is easy unless you have the CT on, in which case it will sometimes get "stuck" in the air due to the auto triming. Where the 38 can roll over and hammer the throttle, a 109 would spin on his prop.