Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: republic on March 11, 2008, 09:22:37 AM
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I've been going allied occasionally the past few days. Mostly because I love the P47, but also because the numbers were askew. I quickly came to realize why the allies have been beaten up.
Few are in squads, as such, few work together. I received maybe 2 chk6's the entire 2 hours I was allied. With allied rides especially, it's incredibly important that you clear or check each other's 6. Because no one is in squads, and maybe most of them aren't in squads in the MA, there is no 'brotherhood'. You have no reason to clear the other guy, he's distracting a badguy from shooting you so why help him...
There were no commanders. Each time I went allied there was no one giving orders. Last night, Oldman attempted several times to rally the troops, even upping a lone goon to capture a base, but most just blew him off. A lone panzer shelled the base for I don't know how long, everyone called it out, no one did anything about it.... With the plethora of ord dumptrucks the allies have, that's unforgivable.
In the air... I understand some of the apathy. It was terrifying watching JG54, Avengers and JG11 come in. We in JG54 tend to fly in pairs, one engages the other hangs back. When I saw 2 190's, in formation, then one peels off and the other stayed high, I knew I was in for a workout. :)
You need a big squad and a strong CO if your going to compete with the current Axis opponent. A single good pilot in a good plane cannot compete with good pilots with tried tactics and proven teamwork.
The Bug is a great F6F stick, best I've seen. TCFKas is good in a P51 (if I remember right). Oldman is great in most everything allied. Mugadai is squirmy son of a gun in the F4F. I don't know many of the allied regulars, but I know there are other great sticks.
In short, it's not the talent you lack, it's the coordination. The Axis can be beaten, or at the very least...withstood. The next ride selection is crucial. As most of you know after the G2 our 109s just get slower and less maneuverable until the K4. The F4 takes several sustained bursts to take down an allied ride. You should have an airframe maneuverability advantage with the next round.
If you can't from a big squad, find a wingman. Find the guy you usually see flying around and form up on him. Learn to fly in pairs, that's how teamwork starts. Cover each other, keep each other alive. It's not about kills landed, it's about accomplishing an overall goal. Keeping a base from capture, etc.
Above all that, however, you need leadership. TK is on nearly every night. Some people can do that, some people have other obligations...that's understandable. I have a wife and a new baby, there are nights I cant play. I usually play after the baby is asleep for about 3 hours, that gives time for family, wife, and then me. :)
Make sure the commander you elect is logged on the majority of the week. And maybe don't be so picky, an average commander who is online is better than a great commander who's not.
This is an earnest attempt to share what I've seen on both sides of the conflict.
:salute
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I think it's the "organization" too.
It's not the planes and/or the pilots only. I got pwned last night. All night long. My boys were landing scalps in droves, and I don't think I even got a aircraft home last night. It was just one of those nights were everything I did went wrong. Even when I did something right, it went wrong somewhere down the line. Frustration set in. Which led to anger, which led to hoing, and augering...and the dark side. So I logged early.
But yes, there is no substitute for good organization and aggressive leadership, not to mention the bonds of camaraderie within and between the units.
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I've been going allied occasionally the past few days. Mostly because I love the P47, but also because the numbers were askew. I quickly came to realize why the allies have been beaten up.
Few are in squads, as such, few work together. I received maybe 2 chk6's the entire 2 hours I was allied. With allied rides especially, it's incredibly important that you clear or check each other's 6. Because no one is in squads, and maybe most of them aren't in squads in the MA, there is no 'brotherhood'. You have no reason to clear the other guy, he's distracting a badguy from shooting you so why help him...
There were no commanders. Each time I went allied there was no one giving orders. Last night, Oldman attempted several times to rally the troops, even upping a lone goon to capture a base, but most just blew him off. A lone panzer shelled the base for I don't know how long, everyone called it out, no one did anything about it.... With the plethora of ord dumptrucks the allies have, that's unforgivable.
In the air... I understand some of the apathy. It was terrifying watching JG54, Avengers and JG11 come in. We in JG54 tend to fly in pairs, one engages the other hangs back. When I saw 2 190's, in formation, then one peels off and the other stayed high, I knew I was in for a workout. :)
You need a big squad and a strong CO if your going to compete with the current Axis opponent. A single good pilot in a good plane cannot compete with good pilots with tried tactics and proven teamwork.
The Bug is a great F6F stick, best I've seen. TCFKas is good in a P51 (if I remember right). Oldman is great in most everything allied. Mugadai is squirmy son of a gun in the F4F. I don't know many of the allied regulars, but I know there are other great sticks.
In short, it's not the talent you lack, it's the coordination. The Axis can be beaten, or at the very least...withstood. The next ride selection is crucial. As most of you know after the G2 our 109s just get slower and less maneuverable until the K4. The F4 takes several sustained bursts to take down an allied ride. You should have an airframe maneuverability advantage with the next round.
If you can't from a big squad, find a wingman. Find the guy you usually see flying around and form up on him. Learn to fly in pairs, that's how teamwork starts. Cover each other, keep each other alive. It's not about kills landed, it's about accomplishing an overall goal. Keeping a base from capture, etc.
Above all that, however, you need leadership. TK is on nearly every night. Some people can do that, some people have other obligations...that's understandable. I have a wife and a new baby, there are nights I cant play. I usually play after the baby is asleep for about 3 hours, that gives time for family, wife, and then me. :)
Make sure the commander you elect is logged on the majority of the week. And maybe don't be so picky, an average commander who is online is better than a great commander who's not.
This is an earnest attempt to share what I've seen on both sides of the conflict.
:salute
That assessment is "spot on" imo. Can't argue with any of it. :aok
<S>
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Good write up, dude :salute
Now, would ya be willing to go thrash about in some Thunderbolts in the TA with me sometime? Always looking to improve there.
BTW, what part of Oklahoma are you from? I was born in Fairview (about 20 miles west of Enid), grew up in Edmond, on the north side of the City.
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As someone new to AvA, I usually look a lot at what squadrons are up and flying when I'm on. Since I am flying without a squadron and looking for one, I check it frequently. The only squadron I see with more than a couple is the 353rd, and even they normally only have 3-5 at most. I've been wondering for a while now if there are any squadrons on the Allied side with the numbers of the Axis squadrons that soley play AvA, becuase it certainly doesn't look like it.
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:salute Republic.
As someone new to AvA, I usually look a lot at what squadrons are up and flying when I'm on. Since I am flying without a squadron and looking for one, I check it frequently. The only squadron I see with more than a couple is the 353rd, and even they normally only have 3-5 at most. I've been wondering for a while now if there are any squadrons on the Allied side with the numbers of the Axis squadrons that soley play AvA, becuase it certainly doesn't look like it.
SW you got a jump on a lot of the players in game by recogniszing the strengths a Squad can be. I highly recommend the 353rd SLYBIRDs, 68th Lightning Lancers, VMF-251, and VF-31 if you're looking for squads with a semi-professional flight methodology. Several more great squads out there like the 332nd Flying Mongrels, but most of them stay away from AvA for various reasons.
Your choices are many. Find one that meets your FUN factor and get'r going. :salute
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I've been going allied occasionally the past few days. Mostly because I love the P47, but also because the numbers were askew. I quickly came to realize why the allies have been beaten up.
Few are in squads, as such, few work together. I received maybe 2 chk6's the entire 2 hours I was allied. With allied rides especially, it's incredibly important that you clear or check each other's 6. Because no one is in squads, and maybe most of them aren't in squads in the MA, there is no 'brotherhood'. You have no reason to clear the other guy, he's distracting a bad guy from shooting you so why help him...
There were no commanders. Each time I went allied there was no one giving orders. Last night, Oldman attempted several times to rally the troops, even upping a lone goon to capture a base, but most just blew him off. A lone panzer shelled the base for I don't know how long, everyone called it out, no one did anything about it.... With the plethora of ord dumptrucks the allies have, that's unforgivable.
In the air... I understand some of the apathy. It was terrifying watching JG54, Avengers and JG11 come in. We in JG54 tend to fly in pairs, one engages the other hangs back. When I saw 2 190's, in formation, then one peels off and the other stayed high, I knew I was in for a workout. :)
You need a big squad and a strong CO if your going to compete with the current Axis opponent. A single good pilot in a good plane cannot compete with good pilots with tried tactics and proven teamwork.
The Bug is a great F6F stick, best I've seen. Tafkas is good in a P51 (if I remember right). Oldman is great in most everything allied. Mungadai is squirmy son of a gun in the F4F. I don't know many of the allied regulars, but I know there are other great sticks.
In short, it's not the talent you lack, it's the coordination. The Axis can be beaten, or at the very least...withstood. The next ride selection is crucial. As most of you know after the G2 our 109s just get slower and less maneuverable until the K4. The F4 takes several sustained bursts to take down an allied ride. You should have an airframe maneuverability advantage with the next round.
If you can't from a big squad, find a wingman. Find the guy you usually see flying around and form up on him. Learn to fly in pairs, that's how teamwork starts. Cover each other, keep each other alive. It's not about kills landed, it's about accomplishing an overall goal. Keeping a base from capture, etc.
Above all that, however, you need leadership. TK is on nearly every night. Some people can do that, some people have other obligations...that's understandable. I have a wife and a new baby, there are nights I cant play. I usually play after the baby is asleep for about 3 hours, that gives time for family, wife, and then me. :)
Make sure the commander you elect is logged on the majority of the week. And maybe don't be so picky, an average commander who is online is better than a great commander who's not.
This is an earnest attempt to share what I've seen on both sides of the conflict.
:salute
Your Assessment of our current situation is very accurate , These things are being discussed in the private forum , please don't take this wrong but for the most part you are preaching to the choir . as this has been the chorus in the allied forum
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Your Assessment of our current situation is very accurate , These things are being discussed in the private forum , please don't take this wrong but for the most part you are preaching to the choir . as this has been the chorus in the allied forum
I'm glad to hear that. Initially I have to admit, the allied defeat was met with much brouhaha on the axis side...now, however, most of us aren't so thrilled. We'd really like to see some good fights. You'll see no bragging in the Axis forum. The daily propaganda report is just our way of 'getting into the spirit'. I, for one, would really like to see an allied report. There's always a silver lining to report somewhere. :)
I really hope to see a powerful allied force, so I can go back to hating you guys. :)
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i am forced to withold propaganda reports until further notice because its no fun. come on guys, do something!!
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oh don't stop. I love reading about how honorable the nazis are. lol :rolleyes:
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I know there is no leadership on the allied side. Im doing my best however, but am unable to log into AH at the moment because of goop a virus left on my computer, which im unable to figure out how to get rid of. Plus, my father had a heart attack a couple weeks ago and between him, work, and regular life, i barely have enough time to do much else. I am trying to be an arm chair CO and its affecting the allied side. However, no one is willing to step up and take command. So until someone else does, ill have to stay where im at!
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...gone agian :furious
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On a more related topic,
Has anyone over there asked 68falcon?
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but am unable to log into AH at the moment because of goop a virus left on my computer, which im unable to figure out how to get rid of. !
REFORMAT
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<--- pwns The Bug :devil
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On a serious note, I cant get into specifics, but there are rumors in the wind that an old CT Allied squad may be reforming with a core group of Vets. I am not at liberty to say any more, actually I may have said too much already. :)
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As one of the "casual" allied players, this is what I compare the AvA to...
It's like going to a park that has a basketball court and being invited to a pick-up game. But on one side you have a team who plays ball all day and on your team you have a bunch of guys who were scraped together for the game. Of course you get beat, which is fine because you had fun, but then the "team" starts bragging about how "leet" they are and how your skills suck, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
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Another empath... Spot on there Trukk! Spot on!
As one of the "casual" allied players, this is what I compare the AvA to...
It's like going to a park that has a basketball court and being invited to a pick-up game. But on one side you have a team who plays ball all day and on your team you have a bunch of guys who were scraped together for the game. Of course you get beat, which is fine because you had fun, but then the "team" starts bragging about how "leet" they are and how your skills suck, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
Give that man a Seeegar! :salute
But it's only words, and those can't hurt us. Right?
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As one of the "casual" allied players, this is what I compare the AvA to...
It's like going to a park that has a basketball court and being invited to a pick-up game. But on one side you have a team who plays ball all day and on your team you have a bunch of guys who were scraped together for the game. Of course you get beat, which is fine because you had fun, but then the "team" starts bragging about how "leet" they are and how your skills suck, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
i think the "leet" speak and bragging is mostly trying to goad the allies into taking the time to learn more and improve. i appologize if my speech is taken incorrectly. I'd say that the arena is certainly still improving in this regard though, and its not just the better planes, the allies are starting to pick up on some of this stuff, or at least the newer players on their team are coming to grips with it. too early, need coffee
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i think the "leet" speak and bragging is mostly trying to goad the allies into taking the time to learn more and improve. i appologize if my speech is taken incorrectly.
Well then let me be the first to inform you it is having the exact OPPOSITE effect that you are desiring.
Your teams constant (and quite frankly, unwarranted) behavior and posturing/goading has done more to hurt your supposed goal of a "quality opponent" then anything else.
Indeed, I've brought more then 50 different people into the arena, and they all say the exact same thing- "Why would you put up with that crap?" and "God those guys are prettythangholes, see ya later".
So you have in fact run off a lot of quality opposition that you and your compatriots claim to desire.
If you want a good fight, fight a good fight. If you want respect, act respectful. But know this- you cannot have it both ways.
You guys are acting like prettythangholes, and are hence being reffered to as such, and subsequently ignored.
Congratulations, YOU are the reason the AvA is in the shape it's in. NOT the allies.
Have a nice frakin day.
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I think the reason your pals might leave is because they get whipped, thrashed, teabagged and then taunted. I suspect the taunting may not be the deal breaker there son. secondly please notice that for my part I seldomly start the taunting but once prompted I can become a very unsettling verbal sparrer. I'm good at it I don't become upset or agitated and I will wear you down if you allow me to.
tell your pals to bring their best game but perhaps that's not even good enough if they are average MA players. the average MA player is a helpless target in the AvA especially if he plays on the allied team.
for what it's worth if they show up in the arena with MA nonsense but most offensively jumping into fights (as in one v one fights) and then proudly proclaim that I'm all clear after I spent three minutes wearing an akakospheric spit to co-E and expects an atta boy from me for his brilliant pick..... well.....
it ain't the MA speaking for myself I don't want help when I'm losing a fight and certainly don't need some clueless tardling doing me a favor by picking a guy I have just worn down in a 1v1.
your friends might just possibly be tards, they just don't know it yet.
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I agree with Rebel. A better analogy though is 2 out of the 5 players causing the problems. There are some good people on the Axis side so you can't make blanket statements. I know some excellent allied sticks who won't play in AvA because of this so called encouragement from the Axis side. They play for fun and not to put up with the hypocrisy, gaming, trash talking, and other so called encouragement from a few of the Axis players. The end result is a bunch of turnover on the Allied side which leads to a lack of cohesion.
Sounds like a new squad is coming in on the Allied side. Everyone, please hold off on the gloating and trash talking and help make this work. It is a fantastic arena with a bunch of potential. I have had many good fights with the Axis players.
Venom
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Agreed Venom. Not all the axis are immature hypocrits. Please don't lump us all in together.
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quality versus quantity
The axis have the quality. They have four main squads and all four work as one for one goal at a time. Allies have quantity. They fly in loose hordes and dont know anything about team work other then ganging up on the poor low axis plane. Even when they attack a base they lose thier vulch very quickly and then stat dieing one by one. What the allies might want to do is pick a day and go to the DA and learn how to cover each other (that doesnt mean five guys on one guy) learn what wingman and swarm tactics are, but the main thing is you have a C/O for a reason. He should have everyones support at all time.
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And he should be discouraging dweebery.
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Sounds like a new squad is coming in on the Allied side. Everyone, please hold off on the gloating and trash talking and help make this work. It is a fantastic arena with a bunch of potential. I have had many good fights with the Axis players.
Venom
They arent a new squad. Its an old CT squad that spit up a while back. Most of them are already playing the AvA, but saying people dont play AvA because of the trash talking is just a copout because they cant hang with the higher skill level.
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Are you guys *really* that full of yourselves? REALLY?
but saying people dont play AvA because of the trash talking is just a copout because they cant hang with the higher skill level.
Yyyyyyeah. Sure. Higher skill level.
The axis have the quality. They have four main squads and all four work as one for one goal at a time. Allies have quantity. They fly in loose hordes and dont know anything about team work...
dude. For the last time. don't confuse superior tactics and good teamwork with good skill at the pole. 9 out of 10 of the new allied pilots are all qualified sticks.
Take each and every one of you out of your squads, throw you into an unfamiliar arena, and you'd be doing just about as well as the allies in the same situation.
If the allies have quantity, it's eventually gonna go right down the drain because of dumbprettythang statements like this in here and in the arena.
But hey, who am I to talk, right? I'm just your lowly skilless allied dog.
Let me put it another way:
Knock it the f*ck off if you want a quality opposition. If you can't handle a quality opposition, by all means keep it up and your delusion of grandeur will continue unabated.
It's a mob vs a company.
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Wow someone has a potty mouth. Umm Axis are better skilled. I have seen many times an axis pilot kill the 3-5 allied pilots ganging him. Iv yet to see an allied pilot do that. How about you tell all those people that cant handle 200 that its a tuneable channel and dont have to listen to the trash talk after they get thier bellybutton handed to them. If they cant do that then to bad.
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I've seen a couple Allied pilots land 3+ kill sorties several times in a row, and that was in the first setup. Hell, I've landed several 3-5 kill sorties when we had the F4F, so "yes Virginia, Allies do have some quality sticks"... They just don't have your coordination or the big picture in mind.
They arent a new squad. Its an old CT squad that spit up a while back. Most of them are already playing the AvA, but saying people dont play AvA because of the trash talking is just a copout because they cant hang with the higher skill level.
sighs You know, all this talk about "he said this" and "They do that" is really tiresome to a lot of people. Good and bad sticks alike. On the one hand, they see in AvA what Axis does, and all the trash yak, taunts, beratements. Then some come here and see the "Invite to fly along in DA", and look at that as yet another reason for the JG's to taunt, berate, and otherwise strut a puffed up chest.
Yeah you're good. Damned good in that Axis iron, and I salute your tenacity to learn it that well. I also salute your ability to get your side coordinated, though I'm sure you have a small share of loose cannons (no pun) flitting about there too.
So the next cycle of AvA, how about putting it where it counts and prove to the us all that you can do in the early Allied iron, what you have proven with the Axis? Think of it as a personal challenge by going the mile and showing all the whiners on both sides that it really is the coordination, and not the plane that keeps you winning.
Don't just "say it". Don't just go over for an hour, or two. Go for an entire month, if for nothing other than to shut the Allied whiners up.
Again, I salute your skill, dedication and unit cohesiveness.
:salute
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Odee, could you possibly stop grouping all the JG's together? Not that I don't want to be associated with our brothers in cartoon arms, but JG11 does not engage in the "crap", nor do we fly allied, so we have nothing to prove by switching sides, nor giving any one reason to ask us to.
Oh and for what it is worth, JG54 would do just as well in the early allied rides.
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Odee there is talk on the JG54 forums about us going allied next round. But since you are new to the AvA or just dont have good memory before this war JG54 few allied iron alot. Hell some days it was JG54 vs JG54 because we were the only ones in the arena. We are even better in allied ride then axis because we fly them and know what they are good at so when we are flying axis we can out fly them. But I dont think JG54 only is going to make allies super uber because I can tell you already most of the allies will look at us as the outsiders. Ask any of the old AvA vets and they'll tell you that JG54 members were the first to switch to even the teams before the war.
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Odee, could you possibly stop grouping all the JG's together? Not that I don't want to be associated with our brothers in cartoon arms, but JG11 does not engage in the "crap", nor do we fly allied, so we have nothing to prove by switching sides, nor giving any one reason to ask us to.
Oh and for what it is worth, JG54 would do just as well in the early allied rides.
No sir I won't. And yes sir JG11 does participate in the crap slinging. You're a prime example.
Makes me wonder if you're vaunted talents lie only in the LW iron. Like, you'd wet yourselves if you flew anything Allied. Wonder if this mental constipation extends to the FSO as well?
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:huh How so. I never tune 200. I never PM. The only derogatory PM I ever got in the arena was from you. You know what, someone told me you were "challanged" so I should not be so tough on you. I though they were kidding. You have my sympathies.
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And yes sir JG11 does participate in the crap slinging. You're a prime example.
Oh come ON, now your REALLY grasping at straws. JG11 should be respected they take the same crap JG54 faces yet they do it with a smile on their face and not a single untoward comment. If only I could do the same...
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No sir I won't. And yes sir JG11 does participate in the crap slinging. You're a prime example.
Makes me wonder if you're vaunted talents lie only in the LW iron. Like, you'd wet yourselves if you flew anything Allied. Wonder if this mental constipation extends to the FSO as well?
Odee was an abused child. please lower the bar for him. has trouble making friends and influencing people. not his fault.
my sympathies to you
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Larry:
My bad for lumping the two JG's in one barrel. My apologies sir.
Yes, I recall you guys going back and forth on sides. I recall you saying if it doesn't have 8 guns it ain't worth flying. I even recall my being in the top 5% back when CT first opened several years ago... my how the game has changed since coming back, but I digress.
Hell, I even recall sending you a PM a week or more ago saying "Peace" and "GK" in the AvA. Didn't get a reply, so I figured you'd had a stroke or sumpin :pray (joking)
So Larry, a.k.a. Truekill, I apologies for the mistaken association between the two JG's
Peace
:salute
:huh How so. I never tune 200. I never PM. The only derogatory PM I ever got in the arena was from you. You know what, someone told me you were "challanged" so I should not be so tough on you. I though they were kidding. You have my sympathies.
You're thinking of some other pilot. I did PM you once in the AvA, about you're dropping CO in FSO DGS... after I shot you down, but I have never asked anyone to take easy, or be gentle with me in the air.
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Larry:
My bad for lumping the two JG's in one barrel. My apologies sir.
Yes, I recall you guys going back and forth on sides. I recall you saying if it doesn't have 8 guns it ain't worth flying. I even recall my being in the top 5% back when CT first opened several years ago... my how the game has changed since coming back, but I digress.
Hell, I even recall sending you a PM a week or more ago saying "Peace" and "GK" in the AvA. Didn't get a reply, so I figured you'd had a stroke or sumpin :pray (joking)
So Larry, a.k.a. Truekill, I apologies for the mistaken association between the two JG's
Peace
:salute
You're thinking of some other pilot. I did PM you once in the AvA, about you're dropping CO in FSO DGS... after I shot you down, but I have never asked anyone to take easy, or be gentle with me in the air.
:rofl :rofl :aok :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl
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Hell, I even recall sending you a PM a week or more ago saying "Peace" and "GK" in the AvA. Didn't get a reply, so I figured you'd had a stroke or sumpin :pray (joking)
Thats because the first thing I do when I logged on was".squelch odee" so I wouldnt have to hear how crappy the allied had it.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Good lord.
TK's only a 21 year old nobody.
Sorry I let a lil' punk get me this worked up y'all. See ya. :salute
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A single good pilot in a good plane cannot compete with good pilots with tried tactics and proven teamwork.
I'm constantly seeing posts in other topics that try to encourage folks to come to AvA. My perception of the AvA arena after a couple of visits is that it's mostly veteran AH/AW sticks that absolutely know their way around in ACM.
I like the concept but I don't stand a chance in that arena as my skills suck and it's no fun being whacked without ever getting a shot off. I've been playing since Air Warrior (DOS) and have never been any better than a noob, that's my lot in life I guess, but it seems that coming to the AvA is pretty intimidating for the new to average player and is probably why you guys don't have more than 30 or 40 folks on any given night.
I don't have the solution but it just seems from the tone of the AvA player's posts I read that they're bewildered as to why no one wants to flock to the greatest arena on AHII.... just my impression :)
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Good lord.
TK's only a 21 year old nobody.
Sorry I let a lil' punk get me this worked up y'all. See ya. :salute
Aww somebody is a little POed. Its okay you have to name call and bash people to get your jollys off. So what Im only 21. Are you mad because you cant be that young again?
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Alky, veteran sure, but they don't necessarily smack of "absolutely know their ACM" (and to be fair I'm the same way, so I can criticize).
Here's [one of] the problem: this thread was started claiming the allies "have no coordination or leadership" -- that's just another way of saying they don't fly as a solid gang en masse most of the time. It's not called leadership when the axis does this. It's just that their objective in flying the AvA is to do it as a unit. Most don't fly without their squaddies.
Most of the axis I've seen (when I flew the previous setup) were coming in with way too much alt, lots of speed, all the advantages, and still being worn down and pushed back or killed by an equal number of lesser-advantaged allies.
Now I can't really say the allies were flying much better. I'm just saying calling the axis "skilled, coordinated, and having good leadership" is a load of horse puckey!
There is no differnce between the two sides. Calling it "leadership" is just stroking yourselves. Blaming it on "lack of leadership" is just placing blame on something external.
Switching teams, having axis fly allied, and vice versa, will only yield the same results in the opposite direction. These guys are still going to fly in large numbers or with tag-team tactics, or with the advantage of speed, alt, or both. Whatever. They're still going to fly the same M.O., just in different planes.
It has nothing to do with "war" or with "leadership" or any of that. It's been this way for a while. Certain groups just happen to enjoy flying in groups, and they always have. It happens the active groups at the moment that feel this way prefer the axis rides. There used to be allies that did the same thing (back when AvA was called CT).
You shouldn't blame it on this new invention called "AvA leadership" -- because that's no better than calling the MA armchair squeakers shouting for help to take a base "leaders".
^-- I don't mean to insult the "AvA leaders" by comparing them to squeakers, I'm saying their role is inconsequential to what was going to happen anyways.
P.S. I could start an entire new thread on why the "war" won't work, and is flawed in general. One of the salient points is that you're rewarding folks with better planes for milkrunning fields. That right there is another major flaw. If it's a RPS it should be equal on both sides. You shouldn't get to choose which planes. They should be predetermined, regardless of one side's milkrunning/gangbanging/troopspamming capabilities.
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Thats because the first thing I do when I logged on was".squelch odee" so I wouldnt have to hear how crappy the allied had it.
:aok
I did the same to Storch, you, and a few others in the old forums when we had that option.
{shrugs}
:salute
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LMAO! What a load a bull Krusty. I can't believe you would belittle oragnization and leadership in such a way, but then You will be back in ten minutes postng the exact opposite so, I should just wait. Geesh man, give it a break.
As far as the plane set favoring the victors...Go tell a surviving LW pilot that all those defeats, and cities bombed, and veteran pilots lost, and dwindling numbers had no effect on the war.
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I'm constantly seeing posts in other topics that try to encourage folks to come to AvA. My perception of the AvA arena after a couple of visits is that it's mostly veteran AH/AW sticks that absolutely know their way around in ACM.
I like the concept but I don't stand a chance in that arena as my skills suck and it's no fun being whacked without ever getting a shot off. I've been playing since Air Warrior (DOS) and have never been any better than a noob, that's my lot in life I guess, but it seems that coming to the AvA is pretty intimidating for the new to average player and is probably why you guys don't have more than 30 or 40 folks on any given night.
I don't have the solution but it just seems from the tone of the AvA player's posts I read that they're bewildered as to why no one wants to flock to the greatest arena on AHII.... just my impression :)
Greetings Alky,
I'm an old toot from the day of Air Warrior DOS myself. Just jump in and fly the AVA. Don't worry about what people are posting on the BBS, or saying on 200. You'll notice soon enough, it's always the same people saying the same thing. I hope you'll give the AVA a try no matter what side you fly. :aok
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Stampf:
My reason for posting is that it's getting annoying to see axis or allies bemoaning losing or being the underdog because of "leadership"
The effect (the in-arena steamrolling, if you will) has been around for a long long time. The supposed cause, or blamed root, is the leadership or lack thereof.
You're blaming something that's been occuring for years on a new development that's only exsited for months.
Sorry if I came off as harsh, but puh-leeeze. Cause and effect people. Cause and effect.
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Krusty since I like you I say this as nicly as I can.
You have not clue what you are talking about. I havent seen you in the AvA in ages and if I check the stats I bet you havent logged more then a hand full of hours in the last few years. The new AvA incurages teamwork, or what ever you wanna call it. There are planes given to the C/O for each round that are picked by AvA CMs they are the same era for each side. So no hurri1 for allies if they loose and 109Ks for axis if they win. They losers of the round get three picks the winners get four.
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Krusty since I like you I say this as nicly as I can.
You have not clue what you are talking about. I havent seen you in the AvA in ages and if I check the stats I bet you havent logged more then a hand full of hours in the last few years. The new AvA incurages teamwork, or what ever you wanna call it. There are planes given to the C/O for each round that are picked by AvA CMs they are the same era for each side. So no hurri1 for allies if they loose and 109Ks for axis if they win. They losers of the round get three picks the winners get four.
Truth...
Peace
:salute
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Aww somebody is a little POed. Its okay you have to name call and bash people to get your gollys off. So what Im only 21. Are you mad because you cant be that yound again?
Never called you a name, dude. I just said you were a nobody.
First off, let me get one thing straight. I'm not mad at you. I was frustrated, yeah, wondering who in the hell would act the way you do even after I bent over backwards to try and help you out by bringing fresh blood into the AvA. I spent forever trying to figure it out, thinking you were probbably just a little sociopath or something, maybe even have a few mental health problems. But the more I tried to help, the more I tried to figure it all out, and the more I tried to explain the situation on the allied side, the more belligerent you became.
Then I learned your age.
A little background information- I owned and ran an outdoor lighting franchise for a number of years, and your age group was generally the guys I'd pick for hiring for labor. Good paying work, perfect for college students. Not hard labor at all, involved some basic math for voltage drop, a good feel for a shovel to dig slit trenches, and various other electrical things- wiring transformers and the like.
I soon ran into problems- not the least of which was attitudes just like yours, and work ethics that were really the lowest I've ever seen. They all lived with their parents ('cept for one, he lived in an apartment with like 4 friends), couldn't hold a job, and wanted nothing more then a paycheck so they could go smoke weed.
One of my guys even got busted with weed on one of my jobsites.
Bottom line- I fired every single one who copped an attitude like that because they weren't good for business, my representation, and they were shoddy in their work. I wound up hiring a friend of my little sister (who was in high school at the time). She begged me to give the kid a shot, so I did, and lo and behold, a light at the tunnel. A 17 year old that really had his sh*t together. Matt was by far the best employee I ever had. It broke my heart to shut down the business and send him on his way, and have served as a reference for him for years as his first boss. Always talk that kid up.
But I digress.
All I see in your banter, posturing, and comms is that dozen or so barely-legal-to-drink kids that thought they had the world on a string, and everybody owed 'em something. The know-it-all kids that I fired without second guessing myself at all.
Just another kid, that's all I'm seeing. What's pissing me off is I wasted so much time and effort to try and help someone who would never ever truly appreciate what I was trying to do, but instead would write off my concerns for "his" arena as "whines".
So, I'm gonna stop doing what I've been doing, and advise others to do the same. You're not about to change the belligerent kid you are on here and in the arena, and I'm not about to expect it. I know better then that. Eventually you may turn a corner somewhere, and I hope to God you do, for your sake. Half the kids I fired are in jail. One of 'em wrote me to thank me for giving him an oppurtunity.
Now keep in mind this may be a gross misjudgement and/or a wrongly placed assumption, but I see what I see- and that's what I meant by the above post.
Take care, dude. I hope to Christ I'm wrong about you.
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Krusty,
I hear ya, I really do, and like TK, I like you and am trying to be civil, even with the spectre of the derranged odee dog lurking over my shoulder. My point is simple.
And you confirmed it yourself. We fly as units.
If TK never said, "Mission up". or "Lets take the port", or "Need help here", or "Let's bomb this, or that", then the axis would just be flying around "re-acting", like the allies are right now. That's all.
In battle, it's called initiative, and right now, it lies with the Axis.
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TK: I flew quite a bit with the 110c/109e/a6m2 vs p40b/spit1/hurr1 setup. I even had some good fights.
I'm not saying that it's bad.
I'm saying the attitude has turned to one of ....
this is SO going to be taken the wrong way...
... "self importance" on the forums. The whole "war" is just an exercise in attempting to control something that shouldn't be controlled. You all are creating private forums, assigning "leaders" and using base capture to wage a war, just like the FSO or SEA... only... you're not scheduling a time and actually fighting it out. This entire type of setup ONLY works if both sides show up and fight each other at the same time with a time limit. Instead you get a 24/7 battlefield where those rules just don't work. This entire setup only works if you run it like the FSO or SEA, and you're not running it that way.
I'm not entirely opposed flying the AvA if the setup is fun. But all this bickering on the forums REALLY sours things, and much of the bickering is about uber leadership or lack of leadership, and why one side has more bases than the other. Frankly, it's a scapegoat. Leadership or not, whatever you want to call it, it's not the thing to blame. It's just circumstantial that the 2 major axis squads prefer axis rides. In the past there have been decent sized units that liked allied rides. Has nothing to do with a "allied leadership" or "axis leadership"
Please see the distinction between the "war leadership" and any squad CO. I'm talking about this recent development of organization with sides and private forums, only.
Saying "axis are winning because they have the best leaders!" is like saying "George Bush is the president because he's the best man to ever hold the office"
IMO it's misleading, perhaps misguided, and the emphasis is all wrong for what the AvA stands for: setting up a balanced fight between
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Then I learned your age.
im 46, so what! whats age got to do with anything??? TK does a great job, who cares if hes 21. if hes right and does the right thing, so be it. He's a smart kid with alot of know-how in this game and for people like me that are new to it, age doesnt matter. the way i'm treated matters. TK treats me with respect and helps me learn new things. I can only hope to get half as good as TK is in this game.
he's just a voice on the other side of a microphone. I'm Very greatful that i was asked to Join and belong to a great group of people Like jg54. People who dont judge other people on their ages or their abilities but rather on their personalities.
if you have a crappy personality, we dont like you. if you have a great personality, we do!! :) so lets get off the age thing. take your testosterone ladden insults somewhere else!! :)
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Rebel I dont need your life story. BTW you called me a "lil' punk". So what, you think all people younger then you are good for nothing pot smokers. You brought nothing to the AvA. You would switch sides more times I could think of. You droped in on a few fights I was having with out even asking. Other times you were killing goons that you knew were otw to a base right after switching. You arent that good unles you come in with alt, but even then you die very fast. I really dont care what you think of me because you are some one I couldnt care less about playing a cartoon video game. So say what you want because you are judging someone you dont even know because I like to talk trash.
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...In battle, it's called initiative, and right now, it lies with the Axis.
Slight aside... It's called cooperation. Initiative is what TK does. He takes the bull by the horns and gets the rest of you fired up enough to cooperate with the plan.
***returns to his ghostly form... lurking about... appearing when least wanted...***
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I love it. We got the phsyco pup running to and fro chasing his tail, not sure weather to suck TK's nuggets or bust mine. Hehe. You are just lost odee, but keep it up, I am laughing alot today. :aok
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OK eough ,stop the purse fighting already I swear you are all acting like you need a industrial strenghth midol , keep in mind we are all dweebs sitting in front of your computer playing a cartoon game
save it for the arena :rolleyes:
please god ,kill this thread :pray
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I was having a chat with Skyrock the other day. It was a civil chat, mind you, and we were discussing his "persona" (basically how he mouths off).
I brought up some points that could be applied to this topic.
If somebody doesn't know you, and sees you mouth off, perhaps they DO know you. Or, they know enough to not want to know you any better. Even after Skyrock told me a little more about himself, I told him (honestly) that after seeing his comments first-hand, and hearing many others with similar experiences, I wouldn't want to meet him. It tells me enough about him to form an opinion. That first impression sticks with folks a long time.
I mean that if you present a forward personality, and other folks only see this, you ARE that personality, to them. It doesn't matter if to go to church 9 times a week, save orphan children in your off-time, whatever.
I'm not justifying captain1ma's response to you, nor defending him.
People in the AvA have to be careful when they do mouth off or throw the trash talk around (or whatever). One of the long-held causes of the lack of people in the AvA has been some of the trash talk (not by you specifically, but there were a few folks blamed repeatedly for years, including Storch), and it can have a negative impact.
As a disclaimer, I have not experienced much of this recently, as I don't normally fly with 200 tuned, and haven't had much AvA time lately. My personal feeling is that it is not a good thing to encourage, as it gets out of hand way too easily.
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Here's [one of] the problem: this thread was started claiming the allies "have no coordination or leadership" -- that's just another way of saying they don't fly as a solid gang en masse most of the time.
No, it means they don't cooperate with one another. I'd go into detail but, no one cares at this point. For the next few days it's just going to be a rhetoric war on the forums.
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OK eough ,stop the purse fighting already I swear you are all acting like you need a industrial strenghth midol , keep in mind we are all dweebs sitting in front of your computer playing a cartoon game
save it for the arena :rolleyes:
please god ,kill this thread :pray
I kinda have to agree at this point.
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I love it. We got the phsyco pup running to and fro chasing his tail, not sure weather to suck TK's nuggets or bust mine. Hehe. You are just lost odee, but keep it up, I am laughing alot today. :aok
Gosh, and to think you started this dance too. :rofl
Well if you don't want your nuggets busted, you should cease busting others. ;)
And what is so wrong with agreeing with somebody else when they are right?
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Rebel I dont need your life story. BTW you called me a "lil' punk". So what, you think all people younger then you are good for nothing pot smokers. You brought nothing to the AvA. You would switch sides more times I could think of. You droped in on a few fights I was having with out even asking. Other times you were killing goons that you knew were otw to a base right after switching. You arent that good unles you come in with alt, but even then you die very fast. I really dont care what you think of me because you are some one I couldnt care less about playing a cartoon video game. So say what you want because you are judging someone you dont even know because I like to talk trash.
And you *still* don't get it. This is exactly what I was talking about!
You don't know me, I don't know you, I only know what I see on here, and all I'm saying is you're hurting the cause. That's IT.
Trash talking is one thing, dude. A little spirited competition never hurt anyone.
I was trying and trying and trying to get it through to you that it's HURTING the game, what you're doing. You obviously could care less, and all your supposed desire for a "quality opponent" is one of total and utter hogwash. Every time we bring new people in the arena, you're one of the first reasons they leave and never come back- both for reasons here and in the arena.
**edit**And, for the record, no, i don't think all the 21 year olds in this world are pot smoking losers- only the ones who talk and rant on like you do (or you want me to believe you do, whichever). You may be a Harvard grad with honors, and may be the finest young man on the face of the planet, but all you portray on here is something that most people despise. On the other side of the curtain it's most likely different for your compatriots- you're obviously very good at the game and know the ins and outs (my brother has this talent as well), and can coordinate your squad with other squadrons with relative ease because of who they are. I commend you for that- you're a fine pilot, and no doubt a strong team oriented player, but if you're fighting against TrueKill, you either just leave and choose not to deal with him, or you hate his living guts. **edit**
Regarding your accusations- I switched sides during my first few days to help the axis during a numbers problem. I even said that I would be open to switching to either side as numbers dictated. Then I learned that switching was considered "bad", and chose to stick to the Allied side. Ever since I've flown allied.
I didn't know that it was bad to "drop in" on a fight you were involved in- if that was wrong, I apologize.
Yeah, I need Alt. Yeah, I can die pretty quick- I get too aggressive and wind up putting myself in bad positions. I'm trying to fix that.
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Gosh, and to think you started this dance too
You'll get as many people to believe that as you did with your "JG11 slings crap" BS.
You are one of those "victims" aren't you?
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No, it means they don't cooperate with one another. I'd go into detail but, no one cares at this point. For the next few days it's just going to be a rhetoric war on the forums.
Your comments started this topic. I scanned through the three pages before posting a reply, to make sure nobody had pointed out what I was about to.
Ganging, flying en masse is not the same as "coordination" -- not in regards to a side-v-side war-waging event. There's wingman coordination, and then there's the "coordination" being used in gripes about "losing the war." This is a different level of coordination. It's the right word to use, yes, but it's not the right word to pin on the squads that like to fly in large numbers.
There's coordination, then there's coordination if you see what I mean.
A squad likes to fly in numbers, because they have more fun that way. They like winging with each other, whatever the reason. On a SQUAD-LEVEL they are more coordinated than OTHER SQUDS, but that doesn't equate to tactical battlefield coordination. It's all relative.
Hypothetical situation:
The allies, with smaller units, might coordinate a lot more because they need to to get an attack plan running (takes more coordination to get 7 loose players than it does to get 7 players already together). The allies coordinate, set up, and execute a mission, but the uncoordinated axis, that just happen to be flying as a group on a fighter sweep, run into this mission and disrupt/kill it. The axis have prevailed, but not due to any additional planning or effort. So you see, there's different levels of coordination.
Superior numbers, positions, and comfort levels, are the reason the side with larger squads does better. Not because they stay up all night planning sneak attacks timed down to the milisecond (or some other example).
P.S. <sidetrack> Switching sides to even things out has ALWAYS been one of the staples of the AvA. This new discouragement is BS, telling folks to stay on their side. </sidetrack>
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I don't understand what you are saying :lol
I don't mean flying en masse. I mean my few nights in the Allies I experienced hardly any chk6's, no one wanted to deal with a pesky gv, everyone concentrated on a few targets.
Granted, the nights that I was allies were nights that no large allied squads were on. Until last night, that was usually the case, a large assortment of squadless players.
The goal of my post, which is now long since lost in bickering, was to encourage the allies to work in pairs, and then squads to help each other...not to gang.
To me, and I'm probably in the minority, it's not about kills landed, or even winning the war...it's about flying with a group of like minded individuals working together to accomplish a goal.
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I'm thinking booze and pot would be a good thing for TK. :)
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Your comments started this topic. I scanned through the three pages before posting a reply, to make sure nobody had pointed out what I was about to.
Ganging, flying en masse is not the same as "coordination" -- not in regards to a side-v-side war-waging event. There's wingman coordination, and then there's the "coordination" being used in gripes about "losing the war." This is a different level of coordination. It's the right word to use, yes, but it's not the right word to pin on the squads that like to fly in large numbers.
There's coordination, then there's coordination if you see what I mean.
A squad likes to fly in numbers, because they have more fun that way. They like winging with each other, whatever the reason. On a SQUAD-LEVEL they are more coordinated than OTHER SQUDS, but that doesn't equate to tactical battlefield coordination. It's all relative.
Hypothetical situation:
The allies, with smaller units, might coordinate a lot more because they need to to get an attack plan running (takes more coordination to get 7 loose players than it does to get 7 players already together). The allies coordinate, set up, and execute a mission, but the uncoordinated axis, that just happen to be flying as a group on a fighter sweep, run into this mission and disrupt/kill it. The axis have prevailed, but not due to any additional planning or effort. So you see, there's different levels of coordination.
Superior numbers, positions, and comfort levels, are the reason the side with larger squads does better. Not because they stay up all night planning sneak attacks timed down to the milisecond (or some other example).
P.S. <sidetrack> Switching sides to even things out has ALWAYS been one of the staples of the AvA. This new discouragement is BS, telling folks to stay on their side. </sidetrack>
so if we fly as a group, are we ganging, hording or co-ordinating??? IM soo confused!!!
also is this a good thing or a bad thing?? is it good if we lose and bad if we win?? or is it bad if we win and good if we dont.
hmmmm ......... someone please help!!!
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Check6's mean very little. There are so many reasons not to give them. The AvA has a 'tude for griping at folks that interrupt 1v1 fights (no matter how poorly they go), folks don't know you, don't see you (if you're separated), don't know you didn't already see the really obvious guy diving on you, whatever.
That alone isn't an indication of lack of coordination. Lack of communication perhaps.
I've flown with some folks that were so on-the-ball they never needed a check6, and they pretty much knew this about each other. Then I've also flown with some verbose folks that give 'em freely on vox.
I chose to reply to your thread because it was related, but my comments about "coordination" gripes are not focused only on your topic. It seems they are the most common complaint on the forums in recent weeks.
Captain1ma: It just means you're flying as you are flying. Folks are placing more meaning on it than it deserves, and I'm trying to point this out. The current mentality is flawed, when blaming side effectiveness on the "war leadership."
EDIT: I put my P.S. in the wrong place, fixed!
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I'm thinking booze and pot would be a good thing for TK. :)
hey Tom, why are you stirring this pot? :D
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Krusty,
I suggest that you go look at Smokey's last post in the "led to believe" thread. There is something to say for "organization" no matter how you slice it.
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Personally I love booze and pot. :rolleyes:
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Krusty,
I suggest that you go look at Smokey's last post in the "led to believe" thread. There is something to say for "organization" no matter how you slice it.
Overall, the organized missions in the AvA take a back seat to the general "flying to fight" that happens most of the time. Sort of like MA base taking. Sometimes you don't need an organized mission. Sometimes you just go looking for a fight, and then somebody says "Hey, we can get this, let's do it!" -- it can still work. I wouldn't call it an organized mission. It's more of a collaborative effort. I agree that organization can be helpful and/or fun at times, but as an median or mean, it's usually done against undefended fields with very little defense required to disrupt it.
Smokey's post just makes me not want to follow TheBug into combat :t
Personally I love booze and pot. :rolleyes:
Maybe this explains Smokey's other post :lol :rofl :aok
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*Dont Tune to 200 if it bother so Much*
*im also 21, i dont see anything wrong with it*
*a lil weed never hurt anyone :rock *
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:rofl :rofl :D
K,
Well, again, I hear ya. BUT I can count on one hand the times I have logged in and asked, "What are we doing", to have the reply be, "Oh, just fighting."
It's more often, "Taking this base", "Sinking this carrier", or "Mission up".
Just saying.
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Fair 'nuff.
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That alone isn't an indication of lack of coordination. Lack of communication perhaps.
I think we are now aguing semantics. How does one coordinate without communication?
I've flown with some folks that were so on-the-ball they never needed a check6, and they pretty much knew this about each other. Then I've also flown with some verbose folks that give 'em freely on vox.
I don't know anyone who is so 'on-the-ball' they never need a check6.
When I flew it was about 5 allies vs 10 axis it is common sense if you see a P47 currently engaged with 2 opponents (zeke and 109) and a 3rd sneaks in...you check6 them. I was handing out check6's and vox warnings just as I do on the axis side. I'd rather have 15 check6's when I already know the guy is there, than be cherrypicked because someone is afraid to hurt my feelings. I'm sure most would agree.
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Personally I love booze and pot. :rolleyes:
You , Me , Gilagain , and Mary Ann
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Mary Ann definitely.... :aok(http://www.bagofnothing.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/dawnwells.jpg)
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You , Me , Gilligan , and Mary Ann
shame she got busted for drug posession t'other day :uhoh
Still cute after all those years too :rock
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You know the Professor was tag teaming her and Ginger both.
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She wasn't busted for Drug Possession. She was busted for reckless driving.
<S> Buk
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Mary Ann definitely.... :aok(http://www.bagofnothing.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/dawnwells.jpg)
i'd hit it
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She wasn't busted for Drug Possession. She was busted for reckless driving.
<S> Buk
article I read, mentioned drugs and posession int eh same sentence. {shrugs}
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I know when im in the AvA or the MA im probably a little obnoxious about giving out check sixs. :) That dude NKL5 or whatever actually got fired up cuz i was checking his six one day. :lol Needless to say I dont check it anymore and have gotten a few laughs outta that deal. Oh and this thread is so long my eyes are bleeding from trying to read alot of it. :(
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Oh and this thread is so long my eyes are bleeding from trying to read alot of it. :(
apparently it hasnt affected your typing skills or your mouth :)
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:O
apparently it hasnt affected your typing skills or your mouth :)
Harsh, man... harsh. :uhoh
Penalty call...! What rule is this one?
:devil
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::pokes head back in::
did someone say drugs?
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:D
(http://avengersonline.com/pics/bscap166.jpg)
:noid