Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Estel on March 14, 2008, 01:39:48 AM
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This question is based on a question posted by texasmom.
Am I right, that in USA, ADHD (Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder) is placed in one line with Downs syndrome and Autism? And because of this, can make problems to people with this diagnosys?
I'm asking because it was really strange to me to read, that Asperger's syndrome and Tourettes tic syndrome can cause so much problems with school.
Here, in Russia, Asperger is only a minor desocialisation syndrome wich can not be a problem nor in school, nor in adult life. Tourettes tic is not a problem too. And sure, both diagnoses can not be a reason to get the problems with school. They are not in the list of mental diagnoses wich can be a reason of Recognition of Incapacity.
Don't you think, that this shows a vivid example of "overdiagnosing"? Looks like you'r trying to find a problem in an empty place.
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ADHD is probably the most misdiagnosed condition in the late 20th Century.
It is a potentially debilitating affliction that prevents it's sufferers from maintaining cohesive relationships in a persons professional and personal lives from the time they begin to socialise and in their early education through in some instances to adulthood.
Unfortunately it's becoming the first line of defence for poor parenting and too many physicians are all too willing to diagnose it.
There was an excellent thread on adult ADHD here a little while ago.
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IMO ADHD is bs 90% of the time ... parents wanting to make parenting alittle simpler by medicating their children instead of raising them
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Agreed.
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This question is based on a question posted by texasmom. Am I right, that in USA, ADHD (Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder) is placed in one line with Downs syndrome and Autism? And because of this, can make problems to people with this diagnosys?
actually, the Austim Spectrum goes from ADD/ADHD to Asperger's Syndrome (which i actually have, and it is NOT a bs diagnosed disorder like ADD/ADHD) to Pervasive Asperger's (which is a bit more severe than Normal Asperger's and less than full blown autism), and then there is autism.
Asperger's Syndrome is not like ADD/ADHD, and actually has far less confirmed diagnoses compared to Autism. I myself suffer from Asperger's, and my cousin has Pervasive Asperger's. For me, it is very socially debilitating, hell, proof enough is the fact that i wasn't able to get into ANY kind of relationship until almost 2 months ago. My almost anyone close to me knows that i am a competely different person without medications, to the point where that if i my prescription runs out, and i cant get another one by the time i run out, me and my mom consider me just staying home from school.
It is a potentially debilitating affliction that prevents it's sufferers from maintaining cohesive relationships in a persons professional and personal lives from the time they begin to socialise and in their early education through in some instances to adulthood.
this is quite true, due to the fact that i have ruined MANY friendships because of me accidentally not taking my meds for one day, and then the person basing their impression of me due to that one day.
i just hope that people don't just group autism, pervasive, and asperger's in the same bucket as ADD/ADHD and name those as bull as well. these are serious, and i myself am pissed off at the fact that physisians would rather shove pills down a childs neck to make an extra buck, rather than slap the parents and tell them to do a better job.
I hope this has been somewhat helpful in informing people about this sort of thing. i'm putting myself out on a line, revealing very private information that most people i know dont know of, in hopes that no one will flame me about this
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agreed. it is often misdiagnosed.
but i have it.
have struggled and suffered.
i know what it is.
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Gowan, thanks for explaining.
This time, here in Russia it's looks like a new fashion, to give such diagnoses like ADHD to many children. Few days ago I had a talk to school director. She said that I should go with my son to region psychologist, because of she (director) think that he have "big problems with attention and concentrating. And I think it's ADHD." Sure, I told her where to go... And sure I will not go to psychologist or any other. But for me it's very strange, to have such simplified approach to the question.
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Consequences of ADHD diagnoses that many don't know about:
1. Can't get a pilots license, probably ever. The 'exception process' is expensive and difficult and requires psychological evaluations and more.
2. May soon be prevented from purchasing any firearms. New legislation is working its way through the system that classifies ADHD as a psychological disorder of the sort that would place ADHD sufferers next to felons, dishonorably discharged veterans, and so on.
3. Probably can't get a CDL for the same reasons as #1.
There are more, these are just a few I've found recently.
Avoid the diagnosis at any cost, make absolutely CERTAIN (multiple opinions from doctors). Don't let a lazy guidance counselor ruin your child's life.
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See Rule #7
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Consequences of ADHD diagnoses that many don't know about:
1. Can't get a pilots license, probably ever. The 'exception process' is expensive and difficult and requires psychological evaluations and more.
2. May soon be prevented from purchasing any firearms. New legislation is working its way through the system that classifies ADHD as a psychological disorder of the sort that would place ADHD sufferers next to felons, dishonorably discharged veterans, and so on.
3. Probably can't get a CDL for the same reasons as #1.
There are more, these are just a few I've found recently.
Avoid the diagnosis at any cost, make absolutely CERTAIN (multiple opinions from doctors). Don't let a lazy guidance counselor ruin your child's life.
Tough to enlist in the US ARMY. Not because it is seen as a psychological disorder, but because of the medicines prescribed.
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Lots of kids have "The Other Kind of ADD -- Absent Discipline Disorder."
But, ADD can be a real disorder. Really overdiagnosed because too many docs (and families) think "if you check off enough of the boxes, you have the problem and get the med." Important to remember that distractability is a spectrum, and most people have some degree of it. There's no cutoff...not like you're completely like every one else, but if you add one more "point" of distractability you suddenly have a major problem. Most people do best by learning coping skills to get around the fact that they are easier to distract, harder to stay on task, than most others. Relying on pills is a mistake if that's all you're doing.
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See Rule #7
WHAT THE boink IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!
guess what buddy, you have no right to talk about my condition like that, hell wouldn't you like to live through my childhood!
hey skuzzy, i dont care if this post gets skuzzinated, but if it does, take this bastage down with me please
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WHAT THE boink IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!
guess what buddy, you have no right to talk about my condition like that, hell wouldn't you like to live through my childhood!
hey skuzzy, i dont care if this post gets skuzzinated, but if it does, take this bastage down with me please
I thought you were all for free speech?
I don't think it was a personal attack against you.
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1. Can't get a pilots license, probably ever. The 'exception process' is expensive and difficult and requires psychological evaluations and more.
Well this just sucks... I've been wanting to have a career as a pilot for a long time now, and this news is just delightful for me to hear. [/sarcasm]
well, i was just talking to my parents about this after reading the post, and most likely i might try getting of my medications for good this summer
nuke, sorry, but as you can somewhat tell i am prone to exploding at things if they offend me enough. also, i think it is an attack on me saying my parents are lazy and just want to shove pills down my throught so i'll shut up, and also call my condition "Assburgers". (and please nobody laugh at this horribly immature try at humor)
oh and pooh, if asperger's is the new ADHD, how come it has less diagnoses than autism? explain in a nice neat cute little letter please :D
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Well this just sucks... I've been wanting to have a career as a pilot for a long time now, and this news is just delightful for me to hear. [/sarcasm]
well, i was just talking to my parents about this after reading the post, and most likely i might try getting of my medications for good this summer
nuke, sorry, but as you can somewhat tell i am prone to exploding at things they offend me. also, i think it is an attack on me saying my parents are lazy and just want to shove pills down my throught so i'll shut up, and also call my condition "Assburgers". (and please nobody laugh at this horribly immature try at humor)
oh and pooh, if asperger's is the new ADHD, how come it has less diagnoses than autism? please explain in a nice neat cute little letter please :D
It's okay Gowan. We all have our issues, and I'm no one to be pointing fingers at anyone else for "exploding" at things that offend them.
I'm trying to be a better person even though I know that I am an azz. Still, I am just like anyone here in most respects.
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Here, in Russia...
The funny thing about this thread is that you, being Russian, have better spelling and grammar than most American children age ranged 10-18. Except myself (14), being Alaskan, I'm smart and I have a naturally low, non-squeaky voice :D
America's youth today is quite miserable :(
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I hate you eskimoe joe!
Not really, but I hate being bumped to the second last page within seconds of making a post. :)
Gowan, check my last post on the previous page.
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WHAT THE boink IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!
guess what buddy, you have no right to talk about my condition like that, hell wouldn't you like to live through my childhood!
hey skuzzy, i dont care if this post gets skuzzinated, but if it does, take this bastage down with me please
who the devil are you?
Oh, lets go back and read the posts, there you are. Never even knew you had a condition til like 30 seconds ago.
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See Rule #7
I can agree with you only in one case. If the child is absolutly healthy. And really, I think that the belt is the last option, wich is showing your feebleness as a parent. Don't take it personally, but if you can not achieve some targets in parenting without superior power, than looks like that you are making errors.
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Consequences of ADHD diagnoses that many don't know about:
1. Can't get a pilots license, probably ever. The 'exception process' is expensive and difficult and requires psychological evaluations and more.
2. May soon be prevented from purchasing any firearms. New legislation is working its way through the system that classifies ADHD as a psychological disorder of the sort that would place ADHD sufferers next to felons, dishonorably discharged veterans, and so on.
3. Probably can't get a CDL for the same reasons as #1.
Am I right that CDL is Commercial Driver License?
We have the same prohibition system, but for heavier diagnoses. Such as schizophrenia for example. But besides of it, we have a system of region psychoneurological clinics. Where all of the patients should be registrated, even if their visit to the doctor was only once. And if you'll need to get approval medical documents as for me - to renew firearms license, you should go to the region clinic and get an approval there. I had a lot of problems with them, some time ago. I obtained firearms approval, but couldn't get the same for usual driver license for a year. It was because I was registered as a PTSD with potential problems and also having uncured contusions. For them I was like a crime wich is disappearing from the government. With the respective attitude. Sure, I'll never go to them, especially with son.
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See Rule #7
belt?
You mean beating kids with ADHD with a belt?
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Consequences of ADHD diagnoses that many don't know about:
1. Can't get a pilots license, probably ever. The 'exception process' is expensive and difficult and requires psychological evaluations and more.
2. May soon be prevented from purchasing any firearms. New legislation is working its way through the system that classifies ADHD as a psychological disorder of the sort that would place ADHD sufferers next to felons, dishonorably discharged veterans, and so on.
3. Probably can't get a CDL for the same reasons as #1.
There are more, these are just a few I've found recently.
Avoid the diagnosis at any cost, make absolutely CERTAIN (multiple opinions from doctors). Don't let a lazy guidance counselor ruin your child's life.
Where did you find this info? I'm not questioning your validity, Chairboy, just wondering who gives out this information, and who is lobbying to categorize sufferers of it in the same class as felons, etc. This post is in no way a stab at you, Chairboy. I just HAD to use you quote because of the people who choose to be ignorant and claim it is all BS.
ADD/ADHD is about as much of a psychological disorder as a broken arm is. In fact, the latest (4th) edition of the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders doesn't even recognize it as a mental illness or disorder, but rather a physical, issue.
The following are symptoms or signs as stated by the AMA.
Children
* Failing to pay close attention to details or making careless mistakes when doing schoolwork or other activities
* Trouble keeping attention focused during play or tasks
* Appearing not to listen when spoken to
* Failing to follow instructions or finish tasks
* Avoiding tasks that require a high amount of mental effort and organization, such as school projects
* Frequently losing items required to facilitate tasks or activities, such as school supplies
* Excessive distractibility
* Forgetfulness
* Procrastination, inability to begin an activity
* Difficulties completing household chores
Adults
* Often making careless mistakes when having to work on uninteresting or difficult projects
* Often having difficulty keeping attention during work
* Often having difficulty concentrating on conversations
* Having trouble finishing projects that have already been started
* Often having difficulty organizing for the completion of tasks
* Avoiding or delaying in starting projects that require a lot of thought
* Often misplacing or having difficulty finding things at home or at work
* Often distracted by activity or noise
* Often having problems remembering appointments or obligations
You may actually know someone like this at work/school/neighborhood. The "absent-minded professor" that you know.
Also, medication, used correctly, in conjunction with strict self (and parental) discipline is not always the demon that it is portrayed to be. It is just another tool in the arsenal. To call arbitrarily call (all) parents of these children lazy, IS lazy in and of itself. I beseech those of you who don't know EXACTLY what ADD/ADHD is or the different manifestations of it, to find out what it REALLY is before making judgment. Without delving deeply into it, I'll refer you to a previous post of mine with regard to a lack of DHA and other vital nutrients in the diets of our children during their developmental years. As far as the autism, Aspergers, etc. are concerned, maybe it is partially OUR fault since the links between certain types of these diseases and vaccinations/mercury levels are becoming clearer. You may do the search as I am not inclined to do ALL the work for you.
Yes, it is often misdiagnosed, often over-medicated, and for the majority, mis-understood. Yes, A LOT of parents ARE lazy, and do not discipline their children enough. I would wager that half of these "diagnoses" could be "cured" by a (gross) reduction in the sugar consumption of our children. I firmly endorse sparing the rod spoils the child. Sometimes a relatively harmless dose of pain can teach volumes more than mere words can convey. Like "Don't touch the stove, honey. It's HOT!" a hundred times over and over sometimes doesn't mean as much as actually touching the stove. Once that one time slips through, and the child actually manages to touch the stove, the meaning of HOT is clearly and undeniably understood. The stout belt is certainly under-used in our society but, on the other hand, you cant use it to "Beat some sense" into a child, either. Use wisdom and judgment when doling out corporal punishment.
For those of you who think you or your children may have ADD/ADHD, by all means, exercise caution and get second opinions. But.... Please don't let them suffer from a condition that you off-handedly claim as BS. It is a crying shame and the truth that most kids (and adults) that honestly DO suffer from ADD/ADHD are usually above average intelligence but are branded as dumb, lazy, etc. I know that my kids have had (Wechsler) IQ tests and scored an IQ(s) of 137 and 139, but they will forget something as simple as their lunch box on a routine basis. This exceeds the "average" of 90-109 so I know that they are not "dumb". In fact, there many members of MENSA that have it. It would be a crime not to feed the minds of children like this, or help them to cope with it. There are not many things worse than wasted potential or intellect, because of ignorance of or refusal to admit a problem. I also was diagnosed with it (10 or so years ago). It explained A LOT. I know that I don't want MY kids to suffer like I did in school. At least I am better equipped to handle it than my folks were. Yes, we all take medication for it. But, I also fortify that with a better diet, and discipline.
As for me, I have been diagnosed with it, as have my children. Medication helps, but it IS and SHOULD NOT be the only tool used to combat it. It takes effort on the parents part, and a measure of self-discipline which can be learned. Eliminating ambiguity is a huge, but simple example. Always put your keys/wallet/work papers in the same place, every time, etc. There are many support groups out there such as CHADD that will help you become more educated and understanding.
So, before anyone dismisses the whole "ADD thing" out-of-hand, please learn more about it.
End of rant/public service announcement
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ADD and ADHD are well researched.
If you care to tackle another problem, try ODD, or CD...altogether another realm...
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Getting a 3rd class medical certificate (the minimum required to become a Private Pilot) is impossible for someone with ADHD without being subjected to an expensive, extensive, and almost unpassable barrage of psychological evaluations. This is well known, and if you're unfamiliar with this, you may wish to do some googling. Same w/ CDLs.
The firearm issue is a new development, HR 2640 is the key legislation that includes language that would criminalize gun possession by a number of people including anyone diagnosed w/ ADHD. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h2640/show
The facts speak for themselves. An ADHD diagnosis is a crippling one that can potentially scar someone for life, and a parent that accepts it easily for their child may be doing them a massive disservice. Scrutiny, second opinions, and a clear understanding of exactly what the consequences are is vital.
Von Messa, if you didn't know the above, then I wish I didn't have to be the bearer of bad news.
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oi vonmessa, THANK YOU!!!!!!
:salute
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Getting a 3rd class medical certificate (the minimum required to become a Private Pilot) is impossible for someone with ADHD without being subjected to an expensive, extensive, and almost unpassable barrage of psychological evaluations. This is well known, and if you're unfamiliar with this, you may wish to do some googling. Same w/ CDLs.
The firearm issue is a new development, HR 2640 is the key legislation that includes language that would criminalize gun possession by a number of people including anyone diagnosed w/ ADHD. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h2640/show
The facts speak for themselves. An ADHD diagnosis is a crippling one that can potentially scar someone for life, and a parent that accepts it easily for their child may be doing them a massive disservice. Scrutiny, second opinions, and a clear understanding of exactly what the consequences are is vital.
Von Messa, if you didn't know the above, then I wish I didn't have to be the bearer of bad news.
Again, not being argumentative, but.....
I, in fact, have my CDL and have had it for years. I haven't driven a truck for at least a year or two, but that doesn't mean the rules haven't changed since.
Being a licensed pilot is not on the top of my list or my kids and to be honest, if I owned a plane, I couldn't fathom what the cost of aviation fuel is compared to gasoline. (I'm starting to complain about how much it costs to fill to motorcycle these days, LOL)
Lastly, I own firearms, legally and with a permit to carry, so I doubt it can be taken away without cause. If this directly is affecting the 2nd amendment rights of you or someone you know, by all means, do not stand there and take it. ADD is NOT (even if it May have been) considered a mental illness. I have NEVER had to be seen by a mental health provider for it. In fact, it falls under the neurological category. The only doctors I (or my kids) have ever needed to see were my Primary Care Physician, and a Neurologist. It also uses the word "adjudicated" many times meaning that a court of law (Judge), through the advice or deposition of a medical professional, must make this determination. It does not single out ADD either, so I feel that my 2nd amendment rights are fairly safe.
But, all things considered I can see where some people (read lawmakers and anti-gun critics here) would be disillusioned or mislead by facts that they are not quite educated on.
As far as crippling? I wouldn't go THAT far. My life is fairly normal. I take medication once a day, and I learn to recognize the conditions under which I am easily distracted and try to avoid them. I find that an office with a door, or a good set of sound isolation headphones work miracles. In addition, sometimes intentionally creating a "controlled" distraction such as background music or playing a movie while working will mask the "surprise" of normal everyday distractions (traffic, the trash truck, barking dogs in the neighborhood, etc)
Human beings are amazingly adaptable creatures.
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I take it you didn't review any of the info I suggested. The house resolution will, if it enters law, potentially make it illegal for you to purchase firearms.
Saying "I don't think I'll ever want to learn to fly a plane" isn't much of a response to the other stuff. Is that really your strongest argument?
Finally, for reading comprehension, when I say it's crippling, I don't mean physically, obviously. I mean it's potentially crippling to what you and your children will be able to do the rest of their lives because of, among other things, the law I mentioned that looks to strip 2nd amendment rights from people w/ ADHD.
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IMO, we have gotten away from calling someone "mentally retarded" and now come up with new “diseases” like ADHA, ADD, Autism. It gives the parents some feeling that "inside, little Joey is some kind of genius". I bet if you look at the explosion of Autism cases you would see that it correlates with the movie Rain Man.
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IMO, we have gotten away from calling someone "mentally retarded" and now come up with new “diseases” like ADHA, ADD, Autism. It gives the parents some feeling that "inside, little Joey is some kind of genius". I bet if you look at the explosion of Autism cases you would see that it correlates with the movie Rain Man.
My IQ was 149 as of 1991. I was outgrowing ADHD by 9th grade.
It makes me laugh when folks talk about it and haven't a squealing clue about what they are talking about. Keep it up. I feed off of it.
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I do not have any kids nor plan on it. I am talking about those other ritalin addled screamers that I put up with when I go out. Their parents should beat them with a belt
:rofl at JBA
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I take it you didn't review any of the info I suggested. The house resolution will, if it enters law, potentially make it illegal for you to purchase firearms.
Saying "I don't think I'll ever want to learn to fly a plane" isn't much of a response to the other stuff. Is that really your strongest argument?
Finally, for reading comprehension, when I say it's crippling, I don't mean physically, obviously. I mean it's potentially crippling to what you and your children will be able to do the rest of their lives because of, among other things, the law I mentioned that looks to strip 2nd amendment rights from people w/ ADHD.
Info duly reviewed:
United States Code - Title 18 - Chapter 44 SubSection 922 (unlawful acts)
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
This is to prevent Virginia Tech type incidences where a known and documented, mentally defective, or institutionalized person would have quick or any access to a firearm.
Short of having a pissing contest.....
Where can you show me that ADD is a mental defect or that ADD is singled out in this bill? ADD is categorized as a physical, neurological condition, more akin to epilepsy than mental illness. Also, since I have never, in a court of law or otherwise, been "adjudicated as a mental defective" or one who has been committed to a "mental institution", then my kids and I should be safe in our 2nd amendment rights..
The first (Brady-bill) inspired version of this bill (which you may have been referring to) could mean anyone at all including some people that post on these boards. This first version was defeated.
The newer and thankfully amended version of this bill uses the phrases "adjudication as a mental defective" and "committed to a mental institution" that now refer to a real court with due process intact and certifiable mental cases. In the prior Brady-approved version, almost anyone could inflict legal sanctions on you with virtually no controls or redress.
To answer your question, yes, that is indeed my best argument for flying an aircraft. I'll take your word as I do not know the FAA rules. Besides I probably couldn't afford it, that $14.95 a month is killing me. If my kids lives are ruined by this, I'll have to bear that load, I guess. Am I to make my kids suffer, and deny a problem so they can fly a plane, or drive a truck for a living while suffering through school?
Thirdly, my reading comprehension is quite well, thank you. I was being tongue-in-cheek. I'll make sure that I am more obvious about it the next time.
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Don't bother talking about this Chairboy. He continually recites this crap, even though he was asked a similar question in a previous thread.
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But I thought you fed upon it?
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My ex-wife is a PhD Psychologist that specializes in ADD, AD/HD, and Anxiety disorders in children to young adults.
It was her point of view and the subject of much of her studies that ADD and AD/HD were the most misdiagnosed of all mental problems. Her studies of her patients showed that on the order of 95% actually just needed structure and consequences in their lives and their behavior would change to that of someone not diagnosed. The ones with true problems turned out to mostly be anxiety disorders, and with treatment in dealing with their anxieties they (the patient) could overcome these difficulties and live a normal life.
She went on to do a study that compared the increasing use of non parental aids (mostly television and video games) as parenting tools of today to the times when parents actually were parents as being the root of most of these new diagnosis of ADD and AD/HD.
While I did not get along with her as a whole, I do highly respect her dedication and work in her chosen profession. She is widely respected as a leading Doctor in the Psychological Field as an advocate of less medication and more hands on parental interaction with kids.
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My ex-wife is a PhD Psychologist that specializes in ADD, AD/HD, and Anxiety disorders in children to young adults.
It was her point of view and the subject of much of her studies that ADD and AD/HD were the most misdiagnosed of all mental problems. Her studies of her patients showed that on the order of 95% actually just needed structure and consequences in their lives and their behavior would change to that of someone not diagnosed. The ones with true problems turned out to mostly be anxiety disorders, and with treatment in dealing with their anxieties they (the patient) could overcome these difficulties and live a normal life.
She went on to do a study that compared the increasing use of non parental aids (mostly television and video games) as parenting tools of today to the times when parents actually were parents as being the root of most of these new diagnosis of ADD and AD/HD.
While I did not get along with her as a whole, I do highly respect her dedication and work in her chosen profession. She is widely respected as a leading Doctor in the Psychological Field as an advocate of less medication and more hands on parental interaction with kids.
I must admit that I agree for the most part. In my case I was raised mostly by my grandparents, who subscribed to the less TV, more hands on aspect because they were from that generation. The only TV I really recall being allowed to watch until I was older was "The Dukes of Hazzard" on Friday nights. Maybe the remaining percent do have an anxiety problem. I am certainly not an expert.
I know plenty of people who DO rely on the TV and video game method, and whose idea of "taking care of the kids" is popping in a video so they are undisturbed while watching "the game" or whatever else on their own TV. I would also agree with the fact that there is a trend of less discipline. I know that I have been accused of having an almost stifling method of running my household. This is probably attributed to the way I was raised, in addition to, my own military background. It seems to work as part of the big picture. I try to implement a strict schedule with regard to wake up, meal, homework, and bedtime(s), etc. Resorting to medication was at the bottom of the list, but is still used. I think everything in concert has been the winning combination, since it is working so far.
Blindly ignoring your kids behavior, being negligent in imparting true morals and values to them at an early age , and expecting them to have have good values and habits later on in life won't cut it. You can't talk or medicate your children into a pattern of responsibility that you've let them behave themselves into and subsequently pass it off as "He/she is just being a kid" Children aren't born knowing how to act, and they don't learn by osmosis. They learn from what they are taught, and by the examples set for them.
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....yet your kids both seem to magically have the diagnosis and are (if I read the above correctly) also being medicated for it. I hope you've taken adequate step to ensure that they actually DO need this diagnosis and aren't guilty of the same 'lowest hanging fruit' diagnosis you mentioned.
Your explanations above for things like the pilots license (you seem pretty comfortable in making the decision that your kids never learn to fly for them, nice) or your failure to read the followup info on the HR I posted. Google 'adhd HR 2640' if you have the time, it's pretty obvious that your searching was pretty dang focused in a way that managed to surgically miss the WIDE SPREAD discussion about how ADHD sufferers are at risk of having their 2nd amendment rights stripped.
Unless, of course, you change your approach to "Well, we don't really need guns, so this isn't important" the way you did the medical exam for pilots license. Weak.
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I thought that Blu Ray forever ended this particular controversy.
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....yet your kids both seem to magically have the diagnosis and are (if I read the above correctly) also being medicated for it. I hope you've taken adequate step to ensure that they actually DO need this diagnosis and aren't guilty of the same 'lowest hanging fruit' diagnosis you mentioned.
Your explanations above for things like the pilots license (you seem pretty comfortable in making the decision that your kids never learn to fly for them, nice) or your failure to read the followup info on the HR I posted. Google 'adhd HR 2640' if you have the time, it's pretty obvious that your searching was pretty dang focused in a way that managed to surgically miss the WIDE SPREAD discussion about how ADHD sufferers are at risk of having their 2nd amendment rights stripped.
Unless, of course, you change your approach to "Well, we don't really need guns, so this isn't important" the way you did the medical exam for pilots license. Weak.
Show me the wide spread discussion, please. Quote it, cite, because I can't find it and I just want to see where it is so I can be prepared for my unforgivable choices that I've made. Wide spread discussions do not hold much water in court. Hard facts are usually the currency required.
As far as making choices for my children, you could not be more correct. I am making all of their choices for them until they are of age. If the worst thing they can't do later in life is fly an airplane, then I can live with it.
And yes, we do need firearms so that would be something which I would defend, but the medical exam for a pilots license continues to be vaguely unimportant to me. The right to bear arms is singled out as one of my rights as an American citizen. The right to fly an airplane is not. If its a passion of yours, thats great, and I admire and welcome your opinion. It is, however not one of my passions. However, if they tried to repeal my right to brew in my own home, or play the drums because I have ADD, you might see me get a bit excited.
To google adhd hr 2604 only gives me info from last September. Thankfully, the NRA stood up and made a fuss and that exact bill, in that incarnation did not pass when it was signed into law this January.
I didn't mean to start an all out argument, and I was genuinely surprised to hear it still being discussed for I thought it had already been resolved, which it has been.
I apologize if I may have offended you, for it was not my intent.
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Chairboy will post that BS again in a future thread. Pay no mind to him when he does.
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A slight sidestep if I may...
I'm confused as to whether there is a real diff btw ADD and ADHD, or whether the terms are interchangeable...
I read the proposed legislation above from Chairboy's link, but didn't see ADD or ADHD specifically mentioned, so what is the reasoning to allow us to say that the legislation applies to these diagnoses?
My ex-wife, who has complained for years that she has "chronic fatigue syndrome" recently convinced my 13 yr old's pediatrician that my daughter has ADD and my kid is now on Adderal. Knowing my ex-wife, I think she has a need to think my daughter is "gifted" and she was not happy that my kid was struggling to keep up in advanced classes. I also think my ex wife also diverts some of the medicine to her own use - maybe a lot for all I know... but that is not relevant to this thread. Its just that I'm not convinced about the need for meds, although my daughter IS getting straight A's in her regular classes after moving down from advanced.
I mentioned my concern to my ex-wife about the diagnosis of ADHD as mentioned in this thread and she said, "Oh, she was diagnosed with ADD, not ADHD."
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VonMessa, it's 2640, not 2604. If that's what you searched for, then I'm not surprised you didn't find it. Masherbrum, your freedom to look down your nose at my points and my opinions are unassailable, and I admire your willingness to remain focused on something without letting the facts get in your way.
Gunthr, the legislation doesn't mention ADHD by name, but the definition it uses for 'mental defectives' (their words, not mine) is criminally broad and includes folks with ADHD diagnosis. Google "adhd hr 2640" and you should find plenty of matches. VonMessa, if you search for the correct term this time, you should have better luck.
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VonMessa, it's 2640, not 2604. If that's what you searched for, then I'm not surprised you didn't find it. Masherbrum, your freedom to look down your nose at my points and my opinions are unassailable, and I admire your willingness to remain focused on something without letting the facts get in your way.
Gunthr, the legislation doesn't mention ADHD by name, but the definition it uses for 'mental defectives' (their words, not mine) is criminally broad and includes folks with ADHD diagnosis. Google "adhd hr 2640" and you should find plenty of matches. VonMessa, if you search for the correct term this time, you should have better luck.
I searched the correct one, I wrote the incorrect one in my reply. The fact remains that the info is old, and the bill has already become law, minus the ominous ADD overtones. God bless the NRA.
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interestingly enough, you cannot be eligible for an Air Force scholarship if you have ever been diagnosed with ADHD / ADD. you cant be a pilot in the air force. and its increadibly difficult to become an officer. one of my friends was just DQd from that process
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In answer to an earlier question:
ADD is "Attention Deficit Disorder." Think of the daydreamer staring out the window, a person who can't keep their mind on one thing long enough to get anything done.
ADHD is "Attention Deficit HYPERACTIVITY Disorder." Think of the kid who's constantly bouncing off the walls, doing impulsive things without thinking about anything.
At the core of the overdiagnosis problem -- ADD/ADHD are SYNDROMES, or collections of associated symptoms. They are NOT diagnoses in the same way that a heart attack is. So there's no definitive tests, and no way to effectively rule out the dozens of other things that can look just like them, can match the Woman's Day magazine quick questionnaire. Evem responding to ADD medicines doesn't mean the patient has the problem, cause those meds can help a variety of causes of dis tractability.
Other things can look just like ADD/ADHD. In my experience, most common is lack of appropriate home structure -- like Bodhi's ex said. Also, the things seen in ADD are extremes of normal phenomenon...we all can be distractable, or impulsive, or hard to regulate. Where to draw the line...not always easy.
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I searched the correct one, I wrote the incorrect one in my reply. The fact remains that the info is old, and the bill has already become law, minus the ominous ADD overtones. God bless the NRA.
wait, that meas i can have a gun?
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<sigh> The NRA was part of the problem this time, they accepted the text as is. I don't know where you got the 'it was all fixed, yay!' idea, citation please. The bill was, as far as I know, passed intact with a provision that had an incredibly vague definition of what constituted a disqualifying condition. ADD/ADHD, anyone with alzheimers or PTSD diagnosis in their history, etc. Under it, the government can confiscate the gun collection of grandpa when he moves in with family to care for his alzheimers.
The enthusiasm with which you strip your children of possible future careers is sad, and I can only surmise from your lack of response on my questions about how confident you were in the diagnosis that you may not, in fact, be confident that the proper diagnosis was made. Parenting your kids by medicating them into malleability isn't something I'd do, and I hope it's not what you're doing.
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<sigh> The NRA was part of the problem this time, they accepted the text as is. I don't know where you got the 'it was all fixed, yay!' idea, citation please. The bill was, as far as I know, passed intact with a provision that had an incredibly vague definition of what constituted a disqualifying condition. ADD/ADHD, anyone with alzheimers or PTSD diagnosis in their history, etc. Under it, the government can confiscate the gun collection of grandpa when he moves in with family to care for his alzheimers.
The enthusiasm with which you strip your children of possible future careers is sad, and I can only surmise from your lack of response on my questions about how confident you were in the diagnosis that you may not, in fact, be confident that the proper diagnosis was made. Parenting your kids by medicating them into malleability isn't something I'd do, and I hope it's not what you're doing.
Indeed. The language "adjudicated to be mentally defective" is fairly specific but thanks for the legal lesson.
As far as Uncle Sam goes, by no means unless one is deemed by their attending physician to be a "mental defective" or a danger to society, all health records are protected by a patients HIPPA rights. In plain English, ones medical history, unless dangerous to ones self, others, or proof of said medical condition is or has been found to be linked to criminal activity in that particular individual, does not show up on a NICS check. Not many things, short of a court order, can violate these HIPPA rights.
The verbiage from the (NICS) site for persons disqualified from obtaining firearms (in this context anyhow) is as follows:
• "A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges pertaining to found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial."
Adjudicated means by court's (Judge's) formal determination and that is the key word. Only a judge can formally put this black mark on your record and only then will it show up on a background check. The courts are pretty specific on violating a private, non-criminal, citizens' medical privacy, hence the initial enactment of these HIPPA laws. Speculation, rhetoric, and hearsay about which particular medical conditions are included won't cut it. The judicial system does not normally make a habit of reading between the lines.
Most of this new law's language was revised to require states and governing bodies to give quarterly, expedited ( email, fax, or by other electronic means and not snail mail) reports or changes in disposition of any persons that fail the requirements under the terms of the law. It also updated and stiffened the penalties for non-compliance with these new standards. The actual verbiage and definition of who falls into the category of non-eligible persons has not changed. Basically the NICS people were tired of taking the heat for not screening well enough, when it wasn't completely their fault. They were not being given current, updated information in a timely enough manner. Under the former legislation, certain necessary information may not have posted for 6 months to a year on a NICS report. In essence, these changes have not re-defined who is disqualified from the possession, etc of firearms, but rather how expeditiously any pertinent information on a particular individual is reported.
It's also very noble of you to defend my children's' rights to fly an aircraft, my friend. I'm fairly certain, though, that there will be plenty of other career choices in their future. With a good education that they will be able to pay attention to, it will broaden those choices more, even if it strips them of a few select others. But, for now, they have no choices. They are children, not consenting, educated and mature adults. They will not be afforded any choices either until they have proven that they have the intellect, maturity, and wisdom to make them on their own. They may express a desire to make particular choices or decisions in life, but parenthood is in no way a democracy and some things are not up for discussion. I have absolutely no obligation to my children to furnish reasons for the decisions that I may make for them, nor do I need to explain the logic of any decisions to them. I am not running a debate team, I am raising children. So hang on to your knickers for this one...... I DON"T CARE IF MY CHILDREN LIKE MY DECISIONS. I am not their friend, pal, confidant, nor am I their colleague or peer. I am their FATHER. When they grow up, reach adulthood and move out on their own, then the dynamics of our relationship will change to one of social equality. I know this philosophy is quite alien, dictatorial, or old-school to some, but thats the way it works here. I'm also OK if they don't like me. I'm not having a popularity contest here. It sits very well with me if they have a healthy fear of the consequences of behaving or acting in an inappropriate manner.
As far as lack of response to your questions is concerned, I apologize for not addressing it clearly enough. You may consider the following my final answer. I guarantee you with the utmost certainty that I have an unerring confidence in the the diagnoses of ADD for my children. I lived with it for many years wondering if there was some medical condition I was suffering from. They, however, will not. I can also assure you that it wasn't a lack of parenting on my parents part.
As for the fact of medicating my children into malleability, thank you for your repeated, unsolicited opinions. In fact, as a former NCO in the US Army's Airborne Division, I'm fairly confident that I have a firm grasp on what the definition of discipline is, and how to make use of the many ways to impart these concepts into the though processes of my children. Medication is used sparingly and as a tool to help them better absorb and retain life lessons, as they were unfortunately not born with all the same tools as others posses.
As for your opinions on raising children? It's admirable for you to have a firm stance. If you don't have any children yourself, find a good and proper spouse (if you don't have one already), inject them with your half of the genetic code in whatever manner suits you, squeeze out a few pups, and raise them as you see fit. If you do have offspring, then carry-on, sir. In the meantime, I will do as I see fit in my house. If I feel the need for reinforcement, encouragement, or approval for the manner in which I run things in my own household, take solace in the fact that I will not look to these forums for it.
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My IQ was 149 as of 1991. I was outgrowing ADHD by 9th grade.
It makes me laugh when folks talk about it and haven't a squealing clue about what they are talking about. Keep it up. I feed off of it.
I call BS on the 149 dude.
O hay look rain man came out in 1988. what do you know. Autism rates went throught he roof.
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/therealJBA/awarenessfig1.jpg)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/therealJBA/autism.gif)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/therealJBA/2002-10califautism.gif)
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This is an interesting subject.
When I was in about first and second grade I had a verbal tic. I would often repeat my sentences, or the last part of the sentence, to myself. This lasted for about a year, year and a half. I was wondering if any of you guys with AS or ADD or high functioning autism had anything like this.
I have a thought on IQ tests and people with ADD or AS. Vocabulary is a big factor in IQ testing. An expansive vocabulary is a characteristic of children with ADD and AS. Does this mean that these nuerological atypical kids are really so intelligent, or does it mean that the IQ test is not an accurate guage for them?
Also I would like to comment on another thread here about the speculation that Einstein had AS. I don't believe that he did. He had a healthy sense of humor and romantic relationships. But I don't think he was neurologicaly typical. In my opinion he matches more closesly the profile of somebody with ADD. For example failed in school, day dreamer, teachers deemed him stupid, disregard for illogical social norms, refering to uninteresting scholastic work as "torturous".
One last thing. How many of you fall in the Myers-Briggs INTP classification? To me it seems that many ADD types would fall into this category.
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What I've seen with ADHD is that no medication will ever give a child (or adult, for that matter) the tools that they need to be successful. Regardless of whether medication is present or not, the tools that they need (discipline & self-discipline) are entirely learned. As a parent, you can guide them & provide a stable enough structure to choose success over failure in all that they do. Even kids without ADD/ADHD need all that... just takes extra patience and attentiveness to get ADD/ADHD kids to the point where the rest of the kids are at (regarding self-discipline)
Tourette's is something different though ~ as far as TxDad & I are concerned w/Tourette's, the most we've ever hoped to do for our son is to encourage enough self-confidence in his own abilities that if/when he's ridiculed for it, that it's not demoralizing enough to him that it hinders him.... he's to just keep on trucking, regardless of the jeers.
*edit*
Here's a youtube clip. Even look at the title of the clip. That's a standard reaction to Tourette's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cD6RV4Rb8&feature=related
We've found that keeping our child in a state of mind in which he continually wishes to move forward instead of crawl into a hole has been the most difficult part. Thankfully, he's just a fantastic person (one of the neatest people I've ever met), which sure makes it easy to constantly reassure him, and to push him forward in an encouraging manner.
On a funny note though, we never lose him in a store :)
Just listen for a few seconds, and you'll hear him :)
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What I've seen with ADHD is that no medication will ever give a child (or adult, for that matter) the tools that they need to be successful. Regardless of whether medication is present or not, the tools that they need (discipline & self-discipline) are entirely learned. As a parent, you can guide them & provide a stable enough structure to choose success over failure in all that they do. Even kids without ADD/ADHD need all that... just takes extra patience and attentiveness to get ADD/ADHD kids to the point where the rest of the kids are at (regarding self-discipline)
Tourette's is something different though ~ as far as TxDad & I are concerned w/Tourette's, the most we've ever hoped to do for our son is to encourage enough self-confidence in his own abilities that if/when he's ridiculed for it, that it's not demoralizing enough to him that it hinders him.... he's to just keep on trucking, regardless of the jeers.
<S> for that.
Tell TxBoy to ignore it. Let him know that ignoring it is going to be hard, hard, hard. Also remind him the greatest successes are only gained once we release ourselves from self-imposed limitations. Give him a list of famous folks that probably were laughed at, what they were laughed at about, and what they achieved, regardless.
Wright Brothers - "I'm gonna build a flying machine"
Neal Armstrong - "I'm gonna walk on the moon"
etc, etc. I'm sure you get the point.
I :salute parents who encourage their children to work around their particular ailments rather than use them as a crutch.
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My ex-wife is a PhD Psychologist that specializes in ADD, AD/HD, and Anxiety disorders in children to young adults.
It was her point of view and the subject of much of her studies that ADD and AD/HD were the most misdiagnosed of all mental problems. Her studies of her patients showed that on the order of 95% actually just needed structure and consequences in their lives and their behavior would change to that of someone not diagnosed. The ones with true problems turned out to mostly be anxiety disorders, and with treatment in dealing with their anxieties they (the patient) could overcome these difficulties and live a normal life.
She went on to do a study that compared the increasing use of non parental aids (mostly television and video games) as parenting tools of today to the times when parents actually were parents as being the root of most of these new diagnosis of ADD and AD/HD.
While I did not get along with her as a whole, I do highly respect her dedication and work in her chosen profession. She is widely respected as a leading Doctor in the Psychological Field as an advocate of less medication and more hands on parental interaction with kids.
Many co-morbitity conditions in individuals with ADD such as anxiety or depression are secondary to the ADD. In other words they are the result of ADD not the cause. For example the video I posted about the 11 y/o boy first diagnosed with depression and consequently medicated with antidepressants. He later attempted suicide, was re-examined and diagnosed with ADD, began treatment for ADD and the depression resolved.
For some reason my doctor wanted to sadle me with PTSD. I was doubtfull but complied. Doubtfull because I had my problems all my life, long before any really ugly experiences. I guess he just thought that PTSD was more glamorous. PTSD and ADD do share a lot of similar characteristics. He started me on zoloft and it did aleviate anxiety, and that was a problem. Because with lower inhibitions my ADD problems were exacerbated, badly. The sexual side effects of zoloft were a deal breaker anyway.
So appearantly my anxiety, which he judged as unusual but not clinical, is a coping mechanism that I've developed secondary to ADD. I still prefer to call it ADD because the term ADHD conjures up thoughts of hyperactive kids in the lay person's mind. People and children with ADD largely are not hyperactive, if anything they are hypoactive.
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I have a thought on IQ tests and people with ADD or AS. Vocabulary is a big factor in IQ testing. An expansive vocabulary is a characteristic of children with ADD and AS. Does this mean that these nuerological atypical kids are really so intelligent, or does it mean that the IQ test is not an accurate guage for them?
I have Asperger's Syndrome and have taken a number of IQ tests (Massachusetts requires Pysch testing of all Special Ed. students every 4 years). The test result always showed my IQ to be around 120. Personally I feel that is a reasonable number. I have a great learning capacity when it comes to some things, i.e. Vocabulary,concecpt grasping. But I have no ability to learn other things, i.e. foreign languge, memorization, spelling.
So I think the test balances out in my case, the portions that I do well with balance with what I do not do well with.
Like you said the test can be biased towards cetrain areas. I think typical AS causes strength witht hings such as Vocabulary, which the test can be biased towards, giving the appearence of higher intelligence.
I also beleive that people with AS do tend to be more intelligent because of the way their brains are configured. More of the brain is used for memory, and learning, than in a typical person. This is counter balanced by less of the brain being used for other things, in my case organization and social skills.
On the subject of Einstein, I do think he had AS. as you said "For example failed in school, day dreamer, teachers deemed him stupid, disregard for illogical social norms, refering to uninteresting scholastic work as "torturous"." that is all very common in AS, and I see all of it in myself. As far as his romantic interests and Humor, that is possible with AS as well. I doubt anyone here can question my sense of humor. Romantic relationships are not impossible with AS, I have had multiple long term relationships, my Dad has a picture perfect marriage with my Mom and he has AS.
One celebrity I can assure you has AS is Bill Gates. Michangelo (the painter) is rumored to have had it as well.
On the subject of ADD/ADHD misdiagnosis, when I was 4 I was diagnosed with ADHD. After 2 years of medication and counseling only made me worse, my parents took me to another psychologist who diagnosed me with AS. Multiple pyschologists have since made the same diagnosis, including my aunt (she is in no postion to gain from me being diagnosed).
If you really beleive parents try to pawn their kids off with ADD/ADHD/Autism diagnosises, then you should see the bills my parents pay for my treatment. 15 years of Medication, counseling, various group therapies, special help at school, and a fascination technology called Neurofeedback, are not cheap. And guess what, all that and my childhood a was still a living hell, so I doubt you can say my parents were trying to blame a mental illness, for anything. By the way, parents of AS children also get counseling.
Of all the kids i met in the different programs (SPED, Counseling, etc...) I can assure everyone of them had a legitimate problem. I am sure that some times parents do try to blame ADD etc... for their childrens behavior when it is really a lack of structure or consequences, but most of those cases are probably weeded out by the professionals, or the parents stop the treatments when they realize they have no effect.
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TxMom your ideas, I beleive, about medications are exactly right. I had to take all kinds of junk over the years and each time it did the same thing, it covered the behavior rather than change it. No matter what they gave me I kept having problems because the meds could only cover so much before another problem would arise as a result of the true problem never really being solved.
I do beleive meds should be used at times. They allow the individual to function well enough that the problem can be corrected through therapy and counselling (I know nothing about tourette's so I cannot say this is true in that case as well). Too often now meds are used in place of therapy instead of as in addition to therapy.
A bit of a story here to illustrate my point.
when I was younger the biggest issue for me, and the one the, meds tried to target was my temper. In 6th grade I spent 70 out of 180 school days suspended, that was while on meds and receiving counselling. In 7th grade, while only on meds, I was suspended for 153 of 180 days. That shows that meds do nothing without counselling.
At the very end of 8th grade I participated in what was, at the time, a new technology called Neurofeedback. Basically they hook up wires to certain spots of the head and the wires measure certain brain waves associated with the problem being targeted. Those wires lead to a computer which uses the waves to play basic computer games. When the brain waves are in the target range the game goes well, when they are in a bad range the game goes badly. Basically its rewarding the brain for thinking happy thoughts. This trains the brain, over time (8 months for me), to be happy.
After that program, in 8th grade I was not suspended once all year. Not one single detention, nor one incident.
It just goes to show meds are not a solution, but a tool that can be used to help guide people to the solution.
Give TxBoy a big WTG from me, I have a tremendous amount of respect for people who deal with the harassment other kids can give out. :salute
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Ok, I guess I don't have a good understanding of what AS is then. So then what is the difference between AS and ADD?
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Ok, I guess I don't have a good understanding of what AS is then. So then what is the difference between AS and ADD?
I'm not too knowledgeable on ADD so I can;t make a comparision, but i can sum up AS very quickly.
Asperger's Syndrome is a form of Autism. Typical AS is displayed as:
1. Poor Social skills
2. Poor Organization
3. Physical problems (i.e. poor coordination, slow reaction time, difficulty learning to do physical tasks [poor muscle memory])
4. Difficulty with types of memorization
5. Great memory capability in subjects that are interesting
6. Typically good at learning concepts rather than facts (the exact opposite is also possible)
Thats a basic and brief summary from the knowledge that I have.
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Ok, I had read that a characteristic of AS was having difficulty understanding metaphor and taking everything literally, which results in difficulty understanding humor. Also problems understanding nonverbal/body language, this is also a characteristic of ADD.
I watched a documentary about a guy with AS, and he was basically unemotional, he just didn't know what emotions were except from a observational perspective.
It sounds like AS is a lot like ADD, just more severe. Many common characteristics, lack of physical coordination, indepth and esoteric knowledge of a narrow field of interest. Difficulty reading social cues, emotional lability. When I was a child I had a violently explosive personality, I had an extremely weak temper. I gave a lot of black eyes and broke a lot of eye glasses. Thank goodness that changed when I reached 4th grade, now I'm much the opposite.
I don't know, it's hard to categorize nuerological problems because of the huge complexity of the brain relative to the rest of the body. Which is what the language and theory of modern medicine has been constructed to address.
Biofeedback therapy has been used to treat ADD with good results also. But I think access to this type of treatment is rather limited.
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Good info at the Austism Society of America site:
http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageNavigator/about_whatis_asperger
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This video helped me understand AS much better. I think you're right about Einstein having AS, mainly because of his intense passion in a narrow field of study all his life. ADDers will exhibit this trait also, but the cheif difference is that they will lose interest and move on to another obsession. It was ignorant of me to relate ADD equatively to AS and I appologize if I offended. But I do see a lot of paralels.
Returning to my question about childhood verbal tics; anybody else experience this?
Here is the video that I'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfWfsop1e0
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Returning to my question about childhood verbal tics; anybody else experience this?
Are you talking about the repeating? My son often repeats his own comments, or the comments of others (repeats them in a whisper, always followed by a sort-of-chuckle-snort). I don't know why he does it. He doesn't seem to wonder about it either. Usually we just ignore it, unless it's after he hears me cuss while on AH & toss my headset down... then I tell him not to repeat it. :)
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I lump "ADHD" into the same conjured up pile as "Restless Leg Syndrome", "an Insanity Defense" or "alcoholism is a disease."
not buying any of it...
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IMO ADHD is bs 90% of the time ... parents wanting to make parenting alittle simpler by medicating their children instead of raising them
I guess you haven't spent enough time around an ADHD child to know!
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I call BS on the 149 dude.
You can call BS on the IQ as much as you want. I never even showed the results to my Parents until I came across them when my wife and I moved into our home. They were floored, as was my wife.
Oh, another thing. I've never even seen the movie "Rain Man". I don't use ADHD as a crutch, I mock those that do, in an attempt to get them motivated. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna listen to a bunch of pantywaist BS being slung, when some haven't a clue about what they speak.
I lump "ADHD" into the same conjured up pile as "Restless Leg Syndrome", "an Insanity Defense" or "alcoholism is a disease."
not buying any of it...
You act like we care that you've provided not a penny's worth of intellect on this subject. Go darn some mittens.
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You act like we care that you've provided not a penny's worth of intellect on this subject. Go darn some mittens.
not acting like anything...it's my opinion. take no offense. I liked our society better when we did not self title every malady under the sun...and we just went about making things good for people who needed it...without having to "belong" or "categorize".
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not acting like anything...it's my opinion. take no offense. I liked our society better when we did not self title every malady under the sun...and we just went about making things good for people who needed it...without having to "belong" or "categorize".
When you talk about those times, you're aware that many decent folks were put into asylums and basically tortured, right? It is always best to learn, grow, expand on what makes us tick(even when some abuse the system), than to just say he's "lazy" and take him in the back yard, tie him to a tree, and beat him(which was a common thing before we "knew" better). I saw the beating tree in Union county, MS where they would beat deadbeat husbands and alcoholics, it didnt fix the problem, but it made for good entertainment. :aok
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I lump "ADHD" into the same conjured up pile as "Restless Leg Syndrome", "an Insanity Defense" or "alcoholism is a disease."
not buying any of it...
"Because I haven't seen it, it must not exist"??
Pretty ignorant, IMHO.
While some people definitely latch on to the Disease of the Month, or use imagined illness as an excuse to avoid personal responsibility....I can assure you from direct experience that those things can be real. I've seen patients who thought they had RLS, I've seen people who tried to fake RLS (don't ask), and there's absolutely no mistaking the misery and sometimes desperation of people who have severe cases of the real thing.
Actually, I think Tx Mom hit the nail directly on the head. Parents who want to use meds as a substitute for parenting and teachers who want it used for crowd control are doing no one any favors, least of all the kids. The key for people with ADD (and for people with short tempers, lack of motivation, introverted personalities....shoot, for all of us!) is to understand our own strengths and weaknesses, to build on our strengths and find ways to compensate for our weaknesses.
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and a fascination technology called Neurofeedback, are not cheap.
heh, you did neurofeedback too? i used to do it, but it got far too expensive for my parents, so i had to stop, im probably going to start it again this summer
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heh, you did neurofeedback too? i used to do it, but it got far too expensive for my parents, so i had to stop, im probably going to start it again this summer
Price is the only downside to it. IF I hadn't done it I may not have made it through High School and into college.
When I did it it was very new and the programs were really lame. The one I kept involved seagulls and a boat, I forget what the actual point of it was.
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the neuro feedback i do is that you watch a movie and everytime the sensors pickup the fact that your distracted (yes, it can tell if your thoughts are distracted) it pauses the movie, and plays it again when you are not distracted, its fun, but expensive
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When you talk about those times, you're aware that many decent folks were put into asylums and basically tortured, right? It is always best to learn, grow, expand on what makes us tick(even when some abuse the system), than to just say he's "lazy" and take him in the back yard, tie him to a tree, and beat him(which was a common thing before we "knew" better). I saw the beating tree in Union county, MS where they would beat deadbeat husbands and alcoholics, it didnt fix the problem, but it made for good entertainment. :aok
I can't deny any of this, nor disagree with it. that notwithstanding, it does correlate with what I was trying to say...in so far as families taking better care from within. I think in our nations past, too many parents may have "given up" on their kids and looked to the govt to solve things, by way of such miserable institutions and asylums...where such abuse took place....and that's downright shameful.
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"Because I haven't seen it, it must not exist"??
Pretty ignorant, IMHO.
you'll find I almost always skip reading the remaining posts of yours and others, when I see you opening with faked quotes...and then oddly enough...seeing you answering yourself.
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Are you talking about the repeating? My son often repeats his own comments, or the comments of others (repeats them in a whisper, always followed by a sort-of-chuckle-snort). I don't know why he does it. He doesn't seem to wonder about it either. Usually we just ignore it, unless it's after he hears me cuss while on AH & toss my headset down... then I tell him not to repeat it. :)
Yeah that's exactly what I used to do. I could controll it if I really tried, but the compulsion just went away when I was 8 I think. I would be interested to learn how many neurologically atypical people also had this strange compulsion. Does he also bite his nails or scratch at his cuticals?
You mentioned something about ADDers learning self discipline. A lot of people make the mistake thinking that ADD is an issue of self discipline. That if they just had self discipline they would be happy. You're making the mistake of applying a neurotypical's solution to somebody who isn't neurotypical. Self discipline isn't going to affect neurotransmitter inhibition, or lack thereof. Trust me I know a thing or two about discipline and self discipline. It's irrelevant to my ADD. A summerisation of the challange that people with ADD have is "I'm unhappy living like this, but how can I do the basic activities of daily living without causing myself to be miserable?". We know what the solutions to normalizing our lives are, it's just that they're unbearable. The cure is worse than the proverbial disease. That's where the medication comes in.
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Yeah that's exactly what I used to do. I could controll it if I really tried, but the compulsion just went away when I was 8 I think. I would be interested to learn how many neurologically atypical people also had this strange compulsion. Does he also bite his nails or scratch at his cuticals?
Nope, he sure doesn't.
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You mentioned something about ADDers learning self discipline. A lot of people make the mistake thinking that ADD is an issue of self discipline. That if they just had self discipline they would be happy. You're making the mistake of applying a neurotypical's solution to somebody who isn't neurotypical. Self discipline isn't going to affect neurotransmitter inhibition, or lack thereof. Trust me I know a thing or two about discipline and self discipline. It's irrelevant to my ADD. A summerisation of the challange that people with ADD have is "I'm unhappy living like this, but how can I do the basic activities of daily living without causing myself to be miserable?". We know what the solutions to normalizing our lives are, it's just that they're unbearable. The cure is worse than the proverbial disease. That's where the medication comes in.
I don't object to the use of medicine. I do reject the idea that medicine is the be-all, end-all solution (but that rather it aides them in being in the frame of mind necessary to learn the discipline/self-discipline through established routines).
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I guess you haven't spent enough time around an ADHD child to know!
Well in all fairness he did say 90% of the time. And I'm inclined to agree that children are often misdiagnosed with ADHD. I have personally met people who were told, and believed that they had, ADHD. Mostly because they were very outgoing, active, ancy, talkative and somewhat rebellious. Characteristics that really have nothing to do with ADHD. They really didn't even know what ADHD was and none of them had ever undergone the more definitive diagnostic exams. Like I said earlier, I think that changing the name of the syndrome from ADD to ADHD was a bad idea because it reinforces the misconception that ADHD=hyperactivity.
I've only ever met one person who I thought had the real pathological deal. But that's irrelevant, I've never met anybody who had OCD, autism or asperger's either. Know what that means? Nothing.
Have you noticed that most people who dismiss ADD, or ADHD if you like, don't even know what it is? They'll express their opinion that it's just simply lazy parents, self discipline etc. And I'll realize that they just think it's an attitude problem or a misadjusted personality that will just go away with the right guidance. They don't know that it's a biological malady.
<edit> BTW 100 years ago adhd was called "minimal brain damage syndrome". A phrase that might turn out to be the most accurate name that the syndrome ever had.
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you'll find I almost always skip reading the remaining posts of yours and others, when I see you opening with faked quotes...and then oddly enough...seeing you answering yourself.
Noted.
Understand I never intended to offend or misquote -- considered it a rhetorical restating. But will abstain from such in the future.
That issue dealt with, any toughts about the substance of the post whose form so annoyed you?
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Noted.
Understand I never intended to offend or misquote -- considered it a rhetorical restating. But will abstain from such in the future.
That issue dealt with, any toughts about the substance of the post whose form so annoyed you?
never annoyed me babe........it's all just font...dig?
while I have no doubt ADHD exists.......I would say 99.999% of the people who say to me that they think they have it are full of ****...granted many are joking...but many more use it as a feel good crutch...thus my original point.
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never annoyed me babe........it's all just font...dig?
while I have no doubt ADHD exists.......I would say 99.999% of the people who say to me that they think they have it are full of ****...granted many are joking...but many more use it as a feel good crutch...thus my original point.
Or many more are just mentally retarded and don't like the stigma that comes with that, and therefore are now autistic. I have had these conversations with clinicians and they agree it’s easier to tell a parent that their child is autistic or ADHD then to tell them their retarded. It gives them some comfort and hope that their little genius is just looked inside a broken mind. It’s part of the inoffensive world we live in now.
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Or many more are just mentally retarded and don't like the stigma that comes with that, and therefore are now autistic. I have had these conversations with clinicians and they agree it’s easier to tell a parent that their child is autistic or ADHD then to tell them their retarded. It gives them some comfort and hope that their little genius is just looked inside a broken mind. It’s part of the inoffensive world we live in now.
very well said....and very well sad....all in one.
our nation is a walking-talking irony.... we love to label ... and we find great comfort in belonging to labels....but never mention it...as such an observation is politically incorrect.