Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: stephen waldron on June 04, 2008, 08:55:38 PM
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
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The ONLY way to get better is to fly against someone better than you are.
From the day I started flying AcesHigh i would seek out the "top pilots" and go up against them. Granted, I died lots, but I LEARNED from it.
Flying against mediocre pilots will only allow one to be, well, mediocre.
Just my opinion.
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and your opinion isnt worth to much IMO :rofl
not you lute :aok
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The ONLY way to get better is to fly against someone better than you are.
From the day I started flying AcesHigh i would seek out the "top pilots" and go up against them. Granted, I died lots, but I LEARNED from it.
Flying against mediocre pilots will only allow one to be, well, mediocre.
Just my opinion.
True, so True......you must be prepared to die, and a glorious death it shall be :rock......you ever heard the saying you learn from your mistakes well it applies 10 fold in AH....dont hide from the battle embrase it :t
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I also agree with Lute. Go ahead and take on the top pilots. Just make sure you start filming before you get in the dogfight. Then when you are done (Win or Lose) you can go back to the film and see what you did wrong. The film is an invaluable tool in the game. If you can see what you did wrong then you should be able to correct it the next time your in a similar situation. :aok
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Score and landed streaks aren't guarantees, and running from 'hot shots' as soon as BNZing stops working is a pretty bad plan for learning anything but bnz counters..
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Now maybe a newbie can learn something about dog fighting by teaming up with a "Hot Shot" pilot and flying as his wingman and watching the engagement until he can get guns on an experienced pilot.. but i don't see what anyone is going to learn flying solo against a superior pilot, except what it's like to die in an airplane.
I guess you think the best way to learn how to attack bombers, is to go up against the best gunners in the game. I think that idea is lame. Fly away from any bomber gunners who are really good. Stay on the guys who open up at 1.5 range and spray the whole sky without hitting anything... they'll soon run out of ammo.
You can know all about bomber weaknesses. All bombers have a blind spot or some weakness. You can practice diving attacks, head-ons and side attacks. But none of that is necessarily going to save you from a really good gunner. Not like just flying in the opposite direction will. That's way more effective.
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:O
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. ............................. .. Just my opinion.
I just started laughing when I read this post.
Check my score. Its like .5 k/d....LOLOL. But that is because I fly from caped bases, fly low into hords, intentionally let people on my six, fly low, and fight any better pilot I spot. If I wanted 5.0 k/d i could have it. But that number means nothing to me. What does matter is the "fight". I usually get 4 or 5 really great fights each night but sometimes none. And I fly A LOT of sorties. Does this mean I am a safe target????? heheheh well just catch me low and slow sometime and we shall see.
From day one I saught out the best pilots and engaged them anytime I could. The best way to alienate them is to follow your advice. If you fight them when you can and get there attention perhaps by acutally killing or even just showing good sportsmanship they will open thier doors to you. If you show cowardace tactics you can bet you won't get one bit of help.
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Better advice: Don't listen to whoever this dweeb is. He's probably the Tempest sitting at 20k who runs home crying any time he sees a red plane 6k out with anything less than a 10k alt advantage, and pats himself on the back for his "mad skills" after picking the one red con out of the middle of a friendly horde.
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This by far is the stupidest advice I have ever read.
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Personally, I try and fight whoever I come across - better (most likely), worse (very very unlikely) or whatever level of pilot they are.
I win some, I lose loads - but I always learn something (even if its just I dont learn easy... ;))
Wurzel
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Troll...?
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On this note, there was a WWII russian ace on the eastern front of course. I forgot his name, but his yak or mig was always painted red. The german would call him the red devil, and always alert each others when they saw his red plane flying around. He strikes fears into the german pilots on that front.
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why feed the troll??? :rolleyes:
NOT
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Of the two opinions, I'll take Lute's.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name.
Great Scores, GreatK/D , GreatK/S does not tell how competent another player is, it only shows one aspect they have down and that is how to obtain a great rank, this is probably one of the easiest things to accomplish with a little practice. MANY MANY of the top tier / top shelf Flyers in the game will have scores anywhere from 800 down to 4000........and they do not worry about score, they care only about if it was a good fight or not regardless if they win or lose
You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Before you spout off telling others about "better do a good honest BNZ and get outta there", you should seriously learn exactly what BNZ ( Boom and Zoom attack / Tactic ) is, and then you should seriously learn how BNZ is performed properly. You do not make BNZ by doing a one pass hit and run. Hit and Run for the safety of your friendly ack is what you are telling others to do. A person who performs BnZ tactics and who do it properly will never extend further than 2.0 K away from their opponent, maybe stretching it to 3.0K max distance between reversing
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys.
Telling others to come in with a minimum of 4.0 K altitude advantage and with Level High Speed, is only putting others in a bad situation, anything over 3.0K altitude advantage is really a waste, and if you dive from higher than that why already fast, will make you attack on the extreme high end of your aircraft's flight preformance envelope, possibly putting someone in a situation where the plane starts to compress, or becomes sluggish in response to controls when trying to saddle up on the defender they are attacking. In which easily lets the Defender perform an overshoot maneuver and easily landing hits if not killing the misinformed Hit and Run attacker
They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
Only the Score mongers and horde flyers are the ones who sit and pick and vulch low slow flyers coming out of their own ack/flak. You need to gain more experience yourself, for you have completely misled everyone in each part of this posted thread of yours
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money.
yes 75% or more of all the flyers are average/mediocre, and if you think the AI in offline training missions will give you a run for your money, you have not reached mediocre status yet, you are still in the noob stage, grasshoppa
The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
If you take the time to learn how to watch a recorded film, and disect the fight , exam the points where you did the wrong maneuver or maybe did something right, then dieing to a better or good/great player is well worth the time. and your opinion needs more experience before giving an opinion that is worth listening too..........you seem to read these AH boards, take some time and ask the better flyers for pointers, go to the DA and look for members of the Kennel, go to the TA and look for Trainers.......if you are serious about wanting to learn how to fight and have the atitude that, I am going to win even if you have 3 or 4 enemy diving on you, then I am sure people will be willing to offer you some advice :salute
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Before you spout off telling others about "better do a good honest BNZ and get outta there", you should seriously learn exactly what BNZ ( Boom and Zoom attack / Tactic ) is, and then you should seriously learn how BNZ is performed properly. You do not make BNZ by doing a one pass hit and run. Hit and Run for the safety of your friendly ack is what you are telling others to do. A person who performs BnZ tactics and who do it properly will never extend further than 2.0 K away from their opponent, maybe stretching it to 3.0K max distance between reversing
[ [/b][/color]
Amen :aok
Thank you for illuminating the difference between Boom and Zoom and "One pass, haul ass".
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Definitely a shade troll. It's just too bad he's spewing this garbage in the help and training forum.
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I don't even know for sure that he's a troll. I just think his first post is absolutely hilarious. Kudos for the comedy. I especially like the part about not working in a sector where a "HOT SHOT" pilot is :lol :lol
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:rofl
IP Ban?
:noid
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TROLL
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
You are kidding right?
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I think it's a Yenny shade. :aok
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I'm still trying to figure out what a P-57 is. :huh
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well, let's make it very very simple for the newbies.
1)read whatever you can find on the trianers help page
2)go to the TA, and seek help
3)go into any of the MA's, and fight anything that has a red icon
4)thisone is the most important. HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<>;
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Oh. Here's another piece of advice for newbies. Don't fly against "mountain hugger". These are enemy pilots that keep flying along the side of a mountain at low altitude. It's a common trick used by better pilots to kill inexperienced opponents. They trade a couple of high deflection shots to bait you, and then they fly you into the side of a mountain for the kill.
It's surprising how often this tactic works. Don't fall for it. The kill shot isn't on the side of the mountain. The counter tactic is to throttle back, save your fuel and wait the guy out. Don't try saving the other newbies attacking the plane. You can't save them.
A P57 with a drop tank is good for this. This guy has deliberately chosen a plane that maneuvers really well, it isn't going to be fast when he runs away. When he gets low on ammo, WEP and gas and turns back to go home you follow him till he gets clear of the mountain and you KILL HIM.
By the way. Some of the experienced pilots call me the TROLL because i tell new guys about these cheap tricks and how to counter the tactics. THEY DON'T LIKE IT. They would prefer that you die in a proper grotesque manner befitting all newbies. They will always advise you to ATTACK regardless of whether or not you are being BAITED and believe DEATH is the price you should pay for the wisdom they are imparting.
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This by far is the stupidest advice I have ever read.
agreed :rofl
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Don't try saving the other newbies attacking the plane. You can't save them.
:rofl :aok
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If you lawn-dart yourself into the side of a mountain while diving on a con on the deck from 20k in your Tempest at 600mph it's your own damn fault for not paying attention to altitude and airspeed.
It's all become clear to me. I think someone got spanked in his "uber" late-war ride by someone in an F4F-4 or other early, and it HAD to be because the guy who killed him pulled some "cheap trick," because there's no way in HELL his "sk1llz" should have failed him
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Another trick used by experienced players is to lead newbies over a hill or a town with an Ostwind or Wirbelwind sitting there. You see this alot in the MA. It's no coincidence the flak panzer is there. These guys are working as a team. Don't fall for this one either. It's a trap.
Eventually after several newbies have been dispatched in a proper grotesque manner somebody on your side will scream "SOMEBODY KILL THAT WIRBELWIND" ! The guy on the wirbelwind is as good as the guy flying the plane as bait. Don't allow others to goad you into doing something they arn't willing to do themselves. Avoid this situation like the plague. Turn and fly away in the opposite direction.
Posted by the TROLL, or DWEEB
whatever,
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I just started laughing when I read this post.
Check my score. Its like .5 k/d....LOLOL. But that is because I fly from caped bases, fly low into hords, intentionally let people on my six, fly low, and fight any better pilot I spot. If I wanted 5.0 k/d i could have it. But that number means nothing to me. What does matter is the "fight". I usually get 4 or 5 really great fights each night but sometimes none. And I fly A LOT of sorties. Does this mean I am a safe target????? heheheh well just catch me low and slow sometime and we shall see.
From day one I saught out the best pilots and engaged them anytime I could. The best way to alienate them is to follow your advice. If you fight them when you can and get there attention perhaps by acutally killing or even just showing good sportsmanship they will open thier doors to you. If you show cowardace tactics you can bet you won't get one bit of help.
I'm a relatively new player. i took on some of the top dogs of this game. storch, tbarone, Truekill and n72 just to name a few. the next thing i know, they invited me into their squad and are teaching me new things all the time. this wouldnt have happened if i hadnt kept coming out and fighting them. they said i had "heart".
i still suck but i have a great time and i learn new things from them and occationally i even get in a kill. hidding in the ack wont get you this. coming out and fighting will. dont be afraid to die, just learn from it.
Agent360 said it best! have fun, and dont worry about scores. Worry about sportsmenship and learning how to be a good pilot.
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Another trick used by experienced players is to lead newbies over a hill or a town with an Ostwind or Wirbelwind sitting there. You see this alot in the MA. It's no coincidence the flak panzer is there. These guys are working as a team. Don't fall for this one either. It's a trap.
Eventually after several newbies have been dispatched in a proper grotesque manner somebody on your side will scream "SOMEBODY KILL THAT WIRBELWIND" ! The guy on the wirbelwind is as good as the guy flying the plane as bait. Don't allow others to goad you into doing something they arn't willing to do themselves. Avoid this situation like the plague. Turn and fly away in the opposite direction.
Posted by the TROLL, or DWEEB
whatever,
oh man, this is getting good. <wishes we still had the popcorn smiley>
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1000lb bomb + vertical drop from at least 5000ft = dead Wirblewind.
Or just roll in a low B-25H and lob pumpkins at him from 4000yds out until he goes poof.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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Another trick used by experienced players is to lead newbies over a hill or a town with an Ostwind or Wirbelwind sitting there. You see this alot in the MA. It's no coincidence the flak panzer is there. These guys are working as a team. Don't fall for this one either. It's a trap.
Eventually after several newbies have been dispatched in a proper grotesque manner somebody on your side will scream "SOMEBODY KILL THAT WIRBELWIND" ! The guy on the wirbelwind is as good as the guy flying the plane as bait. Don't allow others to goad you into doing something they arn't willing to do themselves. Avoid this situation like the plague. Turn and fly away in the opposite direction.
Oh know they know about my awesome Wirbelness! Being serious for a moment I highly suggest going into a fight with a mindset of I will do my best to live through it, and gain valuable experience regardless whether you live or die. Players so called ranking should never cause you to shy from any fight. Some of the best fights I have had come from both sides of the spectrum from low ranked pilots to top ranked pilots.
Waystin2
WibelWind/Ostwind Expert
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I can't help but add that, another trick vets use to kill n00bs, and one of the most obvious, is to learn acm and practice it.
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:lol
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That's right. The best way to learn "Air Combat" techniques is to team up with an experienced pilot and fly with him as his wingman on the same radio frequency. That way the experienced pilot can explain to you what he's doing and why he's doing it, as it's happening. That's the way REAL training is conducted. Newbies should not be thrown away to die in a proper grotesque manner, filming their own death in the hope of learning something.
What can you learn from filming your own death and reviewing the film later ? Not much. Just that you died. You can't tell from looking at an enemy plane in a film whether he's flying with his flaps out or flying at half throttle. About all you can tell, is if he lowers his landing gear so you overshoot him. Telling a newbie to film his own death and learn from it, is about as useful as strapping a video camera to the back of a cow in a slaughterhouse.
New pilots should not have to "prove" their "worthiness" by dying repeatedly for experienced pilots. A new pilot having proved NOTHING, is still a valuable resource, just because he's shown up to play on your countries side. That alone is enough to warrant his training.
Until the experienced pilot recognizes this responsibility and stops exploiting newbies and handing out nearly worthless advise, new players in the MA will continue to play at their customary substandard level. And instead of the game becoming more challenging, it will stagnate just as it has. With new players falling in and out of the game frustrated by the indifference of their teammates.
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What can you learn from filming your own death and reviewing the film later ? Not much. Just that you died. You can't tell from looking at an enemy plane in a film whether he's flying with his flaps out or flying at half throttle. About all you can tell, is if he lowers his landing gear so you overshoot him. Telling a newbie to film his own death and learn from it, is about as useful as strapping a video camera to the back of a cow in a slaughterhouse.
New pilots should not have to "prove" their "worthiness" by dying repeatedly for experienced pilots. A new pilot having proved NOTHING, is still a valuable resource, just because he's shown up to play on your countries side. That alone is enough to warrant his training.
Until the experienced pilot recognizes this responsibility and stops exploiting newbies and handing out nearly worthless advise, new players in the MA will continue to play at their customary substandard level. And instead of the game becoming more challenging, it will stagnate just as it has. With new players falling in and out of the game frustrated by the indifference of their teammates.
Your wrong on the film first off, film tells you HOW You died, what moves you should of made you didnt, saying films are useless is like saying having bombs on a plane matters much when your dogfighting. New pilots dont have to prove anything from experienced pilots, either they learn or they dont. Most players have a 2 week subscription and when they can't shoot down 40 and land they give up. Most new players end up in the training arena where I know there are a half dozen great helpers and trainers willing to spend time with everyone personally.
I myself spend few hours with one or multiple people not giving them "worthless advice" but trying to teach them how to enjoy the game better.
Everyone has their own way of deciding what they want from this game, whether its to be a dogfighter, or bomber pilot or possible a GV'r some want to do all 3. You have to ask the questions and find out whose good in what and get the answers. I myself a 5 year vet I made quite a few posts on the training forums asking help on certain rides, yes im an experienced driver, doesn't mean I cant ask for help either.
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I learned more from watching a five minute murdr film from every angle and 100 times in a row, than I did from a month of dogfighting. The film lets you go back and dissect every move look at every external angle, chase plane views , watch the fight from both your cockpit or the enemy/trainer 's cockpit, and the feature i love is the wing trails a HUGE help if you ask me. You say you cant learn from filming your own death. I say you will learn more watching one good death than you will shooting down 100 "mediocre" players. :noid
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I can't Say I am the best, but I have learned for the best. I have been with may people like Dogg, Dutchie, TC, and and BK and all of them are some of the best pilots in the game.
I always like to take the best to the DA and get killed by them, but I know that I am already gonna get killed. I see what they do and what mistakes that I made and I now have a clue on how to counter react it.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
Timid Pilot's Dicta?
ack-ack
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What can you learn from filming your own death and reviewing the film later ? Not much. Just that you died.
ooooo soooooo wrong!!!!!!!!
each and every fight i lose, that i have film running, i can very easily identify where and when i made the mistake. that was even when i was new. if i did nothing really wrong, i was able to see what exactly the other guy did to get the shot. either way, although what your trying to suggest is very good, do not discourage noobs from filming. i've been flying about 2 years or so, although ya can't tell from my skill :rofl, and i STILL film. next to a trainer, or a good wingie, it is the single most valuable learning tool in the game.
<<S>>
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JFK said it best when he was making his "Go to the moon speach"....
"Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas? We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills..."
Why fight a better AH player? Not because it is easy but because it is hard. Good fights against great players that result in trips to the tower make better cartoon pilots.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
Just...no I won't go there, but I will lol.
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my k.d is probably .1 and for the same reasons as agent gave :lol
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I can't believe that waldron' been here for just over 2 months and knows so much!! :noid
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New pilots should not have to "prove" their "worthiness" by dying repeatedly for experienced pilots. A new pilot having proved NOTHING, is still a valuable resource, just because he's shown up to play on your countries side. That alone is enough to warrant his training.
Its not proving your worthiness its proving that you want to learn. Whats your in game name mine is A8Nisky you look me up when your on i show you how to fight. Now you can't say anyone hasn't tried to help you. Offer is on the table.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
This has "shade account" flamer written ALL OVER IT. Where's the "P-57" you mention?
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See the subject posted just above mine in this forum (No Trainers), makes my point for me. A new pilot, plenty motivated unable to get any training. He writes down notes and reads everything. He even said he's tried filming his moves in combat and the payoff was minimal. I guess it was. He's getting frustrated and annoyed.
Now i don't know this guy or what country he's flying for, but you can bet your backside he's fixin to make a change. If somebody doesn't grab this guy and tutor him, he's gonna end up flying with somebody else. This is sadly pretty common in the MA. I changed countries three times the first two months i played looking for training myself. So i know what this guy is talking about.
I'm not writing this post for his benefit, but for yours (and the game in general). Yes. After 10 years on a major fire department, i learned a few things about personnel and developing human resources. You don't demand respect from others, you EARN it. You don't throw your men up ontop a burning building knowing the structure is unsound, just to put the fire out faster than someone else can. Nobody should have to sacrifice themselves to prove they're worthy of being properly trained. If that's your idea of leadership, all that proves is that you are UNWORTHY of leading them. And people sort'a figure that kind'a stuff out.
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See the subject posted just above mine in this forum (No Trainers), makes my point for me. A new pilot, plenty motivated unable to get any training. He writes down notes and reads everything. He even said he's tried filming his moves in combat and the payoff was minimal. I guess it was. He's getting frustrated and annoyed.
Now i don't know this guy or what country he's flying for, but you can bet your backside he's fixin to make a change. If somebody doesn't grab this guy and tutor him, he's gonna end up flying with somebody else. This is sadly pretty common in the MA. I changed countries three times the first two months i played looking for training myself. So i know what this guy is talking about.
I'm not writing this post for his benefit, but for yours (and the game in general). Yes. After 10 years on a major fire department, i learned a few things about personnel and developing human resources. You don't demand respect from others, you EARN it. You don't throw your men up ontop a burning building knowing the structure is unsound, just to put the fire out faster than someone else can. Nobody should have to sacrifice themselves to prove they're worthy of being properly trained. If that's your idea of leadership, all that proves is that you are UNWORTHY of leading them. And people sort'a figure that kind'a stuff out.
Uhm, we are talking about game here...
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<snip>and handing out nearly worthless advise, ...<snip>
No Comment.
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:noid
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Did you think Aces High was going to be easy to learn like an X-Box first person shooter? You evidently get your head handed to you and blame everybody else as Hot Shot pilots. If you are not a troll then you are a Noob and have to face that fact. You are not going to be a SuperbKi11er (Sorry Gunit) playing for a couple of months. Or years in my case.
The mountain "trick" is as old as the hills. In DOS Air Warrior ( 10 year old online game), the ground was a uniform green, no trees no depth perception. It was great fun to fly a Goon 100ft off the deck and watch some guy come screaming in at 400 mph and then realize he didn't have room to pull out.
However, it wasn't so funny when I was the guy screaming in and not checking my altimeter. But I learned to check my altimeter and I learned to fly Goons low. :D
But each of us have to learn by dying in a "proper grotesque manner" many times over. Some will get good over time, some will remain mediocre, some will quit because "This game is too hard." Other will just have fun, come what may.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
OMG ... :O ... a prophet of "timidness" in a virtual game where you really don't die and you can get as many airplanes as you can mouse click on in the hanger ... un-fricken'-believable.
ALL YOU NEWCOMERS ...
IGNORE THE FOOL BEHIND THE CURTAIN ..
FLY EACH AND EVERY PLANE LIKE YOU STOLE IT ...
SCORE MEANS CRAP IN THIS GAME ... DON'T BE FOOLED BY SOMEONES' SCORE
GO TO THE TRAINING ARENA AND HOOK UP WITH A TRAINER ... IT WILL BE TIME WELL SPENT
YOU REALLY DON'T DIE ... SO DON'T BE AFRAID TO DIE ... THE VERY "BEST" HAVE USUALLY DIED MORE THAN MOST ... THINK ABOUT THAT
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See the subject posted just above mine in this forum (No Trainers), makes my point for me. A new pilot, plenty motivated unable to get any training. He writes down notes and reads everything. He even said he's tried filming his moves in combat and the payoff was minimal. I guess it was. He's getting frustrated and annoyed.
Now i don't know this guy or what country he's flying for, but you can bet your backside he's fixin to make a change. If somebody doesn't grab this guy and tutor him, he's gonna end up flying with somebody else. This is sadly pretty common in the MA. I changed countries three times the first two months i played looking for training myself. So i know what this guy is talking about.
I'm not writing this post for his benefit, but for yours (and the game in general). Yes. After 10 years on a major fire department, i learned a few things about personnel and developing human resources. You don't demand respect from others, you EARN it. You don't throw your men up ontop a burning building knowing the structure is unsound, just to put the fire out faster than someone else can. Nobody should have to sacrifice themselves to prove they're worthy of being properly trained. If that's your idea of leadership, all that proves is that you are UNWORTHY of leading them. And people sort'a figure that kind'a stuff out.
ALL YOU NEWCOMERS ...
IGNORE THE FOOL BEHIND THE CURTAIN ..
REMEMBER ... THIS IS JUST A GAME ... NO ONE REALLY DIES ... I REPEAT ... NO ONE REALLY DIES IN GAME ... GOT IT ?
HOOK UP WITH A SQUAD ... THEY ARE THE BEST TO BRING NEW FLYERS INTO THE FOLD
TRAINERS ARE THE "BOMB" ... BUT THEY HAVE REAL LIVES TOO
THIS GAME IS NOT EASY ... IT TAKES A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME TO BECOME "GOOD" IN THIS GAME ... PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE
FILM ... FILM SOME MORE ... WATCH YOUR FILMS ... WATCH OTHER'S FILMS ... U WILL LEARN ... IF YOU HAVE THE PATIENCE.
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See the subject posted just above mine in this forum (No Trainers), makes my point for me. A new pilot, plenty motivated unable to get any training. He writes down notes and reads everything. He even said he's tried filming his moves in combat and the payoff was minimal. I guess it was. He's getting frustrated and annoyed.
Now i don't know this guy or what country he's flying for, but you can bet your backside he's fixin to make a change. If somebody doesn't grab this guy and tutor him, he's gonna end up flying with somebody else. This is sadly pretty common in the MA. I changed countries three times the first two months i played looking for training myself. So i know what this guy is talking about.
I'm not writing this post for his benefit, but for yours (and the game in general). Yes. After 10 years on a major fire department, i learned a few things about personnel and developing human resources. You don't demand respect from others, you EARN it. You don't throw your men up ontop a burning building knowing the structure is unsound, just to put the fire out faster than someone else can. Nobody should have to sacrifice themselves to prove they're worthy of being properly trained. If that's your idea of leadership, all that proves is that you are UNWORTHY of leading them. And people sort'a figure that kind'a stuff out.
Way you act i seriously would not even help you in training arena or main arena.
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I just started laughing when I read this post.
Check my score. Its like .5 k/d....LOLOL. But that is because I fly from caped bases, fly low into hords, intentionally let people on my six, fly low, and fight any better pilot I spot. If I wanted 5.0 k/d i could have it.
Agent I'd love to see you prove that point. I believe it is in you to come close to your projections but it might cost you some fun once in a while. I come from a base taking squad and am not even close to the top 10% out there but sometimes do try to make it home alive and with kills. You have more of an opportunity to be one of the best IMO. If you want to give it a go fly in attack mode as much as possible when just playing around and Fighter on those more serious days. Salute to ya bro
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Agent I'd love to see you prove that point. I believe it is in you to come close to your projections but it might cost you some fun once in a while. I come from a base taking squad and am not even close to the top 10% out there but sometimes do try to make it home alive and with kills. You have more of an opportunity to be one of the best IMO. If you want to give it a go fly in attack mode as much as possible when just playing around and Fighter on those more serious days. Salute to ya bro
That's lame advice. I spent 37 hours in fighters last camp (116 sorties) for a 105 fighter rank while I spent 7 hours in attack mode (7 sorties) for a 7th attack rank and 7th overall. I flew into as many outnumbered situations as I did one on ones and had over 4.5 K/D, over 1.5 K/S and ~20% hit percent.
My advice is, if you want to play for rank don't compromise your game. Get good enough that you don't have to. When I started playing for rank I got similar advice to what you're giving. I said no, I'm not going to compromise my game and instead set about getting better as a fighter pilot. I'm still working on it but I feel like I'm finally getting close.
I just laugh at those who feel they have to "protect" their awsome fighter score so they can delude themselves that they are some sort of great fighter ace. Most of those guys I've killed. The ones that give me trouble, for the most part, are the ones who fly fighters as fighters most of the time and are ranked high as fighter pilots. They are the aces; not some dweeb protecting his score as a gang tard in attack mode.
I also know Agent could do it if he wanted but I'm guessing he's not excited about buffs, PT boats, base captures, etc... all the areas that you do have to play to get into the upper ranks overall and are, at times, quite boring. I try to use those times as breaks, or diversions because those aspects of the game really are quite easy to master.
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You're right Adonai. You won't teach me anything, anywhere. Because i'm done being a newbie and i'm done being served up as cannon fodder for someone elses over inflated ego. The only training i've seen in the MA is the "herd" mentality type of training. You just let the rookies tag along, so hopefully you can hide in the numbers. You're playing the odds, you're not training anyone. And when i suggest you guys get serious about training new pilots.. you're come back is it's just a game. HAVE FUN. Also before you suggest i don't know what every country is doing, remember, i said earlier i've flown for all THREE countries.. and they're all treating the new pilots the same way.
In fact, i'll be delighted when Combat Tour is completed and i'm finally DONE with the personalites and egos in the MA. When CT comes out, the MA is going to EMPTY of people like a house on fire. Then you can have FUN playing with yourself.
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And that concludes a great Help & Training thread.
p.s.
I also know Agent could do it if he wanted but I'm guessing he's not excited about buffs, PT boats, base captures, etc... all the areas that you do have to play to get into the upper ranks overall and are, at times, quite boring. I try to use those times as breaks, or diversions because those aspects of the game really are quite easy to master.
Yep.. I asked Agent to run me supplies so I could re-track and chase a turreted tank the other day.. He doesn't even have anything mapped.. He flipped over the Jeep on his way to me. Three times.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57 versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
Just so you know, kill/death proves absolutely nothing. I fly mostly 109g6's (30 eny plane) Mostly around 6k and hold 2:1 k/d
Far as landing 7-8 kills? Anyone can vulch or pick people and land that many.
K/D proves absolutely nothing except fact he/she likes to pick/vulch rather then turn fight. If you want to know who the good drivers are, simply ask on channel 200 or on the forums.
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You're right Adonai. You won't teach me anything, anywhere. Because i'm done being a newbie and i'm done being served up as cannon fodder for someone elses over inflated ego. The only training i've seen in the MA is the "herd" mentality type of training. You just let the rookies tag along, so hopefully you can hide in the numbers. You're playing the odds, you're not training anyone. And when i suggest you guys get serious about training new pilots.. you're come back is it's just a game. HAVE FUN. Also before you suggest i don't know what every country is doing, remember, i said earlier i've flown for all THREE countries.. and they're all treating the new pilots the same way.
In fact, i'll be delighted when Combat Tour is completed and i'm finally DONE with the personalites and egos in the MA. When CT comes out, the MA is going to EMPTY of people like a house on fire. Then you can have FUN playing with yourself.
Done being a newbie? You must be an ace then, thats why 90% of your rant is complete newbie way of thinking. Inflated Ego? You bring it upon yourself acting like a Tard on the forums so get what you deserve. I have yet seen you ask politely without ranting for any help at all in training.
If you come off acting like a Turd of course people will treat you as one. Game Egos are game egos, nobody is trying to bully you or call you a newbie, but figure this you say your done with the "egos in the MA" how come you act like this on the forums? Not someone I want to fly or train at all. So far all ive read from you is ranting and no legit information or asking for help.
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i'd still like to know his game ID. :noid
NOT
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The show must go on!
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You're right Adonai. You won't teach me anything, anywhere. Because i'm done being a newbie and i'm done being served up as cannon fodder for someone elses over inflated ego. The only training i've seen in the MA is the "herd" mentality type of training. You just let the rookies tag along, so hopefully you can hide in the numbers. You're playing the odds, you're not training anyone. And when i suggest you guys get serious about training new pilots.. you're come back is it's just a game. HAVE FUN. Also before you suggest i don't know what every country is doing, remember, i said earlier i've flown for all THREE countries.. and they're all treating the new pilots the same way.
In fact, i'll be delighted when Combat Tour is completed and i'm finally DONE with the personalites and egos in the MA. When CT comes out, the MA is going to EMPTY of people like a house on fire. Then you can have FUN playing with yourself.
Couple of questions for ya'.
How often have you taken advantage of our wonderful Aces High Trainers? How many hours have you logged in the TA with TC, Murdr, WideWing, or any of the great trainers?
How many times have you asked someone to go to the DA and teach you a few tricks?
Do you have all the important links bookmarked? (like netaces, trainers.flyaceshigh, etc)
Do you film your fights and figure out what you did "wrong" (or they did right)?
How often can you be found trying to better yourself?
Don't cry about the lack of "training" when i'm 100% you have not even taken advantage of what is readily available.
One CAN fly in the way you described in the initial post, but if ya' do that, all you will ever be IS cannon fodder.
If you don't wanna be "cannon fodder", then log the hours, put forth the effort and turn the tables on them. It's great fun to work really hard to improve your ability, run across someone that used to kill you, shoot 'em down fair and square, and then land their scalps. Granted that takes things like "practice" and "effort" of course, but what do you expect? This game ain't easy, and the top pilots have logged many an hour, for many a year getting that way.
(and yeah, what IS your game ID anyway?)
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My game i.d is the same last name i use in this forum. Except i had to change the "O" to an "E" because of duplication issues. As for the validity of my complaint, you only have to look at the shear number of requests in the "Help and Training" section of this forum to see i'm right. There has been a considerable increase in the number of NEW posts offering training opportunities since i began this argument. So apparently my "RANTING" has served some purpose.
However you still miss the point. Training in the TA and even the MA doesn't amount to the same degree of "commitment" as adopting a new pilot as a "wingman". The idea of critiquing someone elses combat performance from the ground or by watching a film from the safety of your armchair is a little WEAK.
As for your critique of my general attitude. FYI. I left the F.D. at the rank of Captain. I was elected Fireman of the Year in 1989 by my co-workers. So you can stick your opinion about that wherever you wish.
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I need that list of the guys I should look out for please, and more importantly....i'm i on the list? :lol
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Holy chit. You fly as timidly as you do and your K/D is .17?! My K/D is crap this tour because of my new stick (first time I checked was for comparison just a couple of minutes ago... .8 ), but I also don't care and commonly fly my way into situations that I'll never get out of... because it's fun, and makes me a better player. Last month I did the same thing, with my old stick (that I was used to) and my k/d was 2.43 (still not great, but I honestly don't care). This month I'm 1.13 or something in the AvA so far and last month I was 2.73 in the AvA, again, not caring about my score and flying to have fun.
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There has been a considerable increase in the number of NEW posts offering training opportunities since i began this argument. So apparently my "RANTING" has served some purpose.
Holy inflated ego, Batman!
Btw, your claim of having me shot down Yenny or myself while vulching was made up. Feel free to look it up.
And this is the guy
- asking for external views in fighters as to increase realism
- claiming that taking off from a turning CV is a "stunt" impossibble to do for about almost everyone
- giving valuable lessons on how to be successful & stay alive in fighters
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2284/w099th9.jpg)
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3343/w100us1.jpg)
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8932/w101jl7.jpg)
Truly the one to give teach other new players about fighter combat.
Usually I won't comment on other guys score and even warn to read too much in them... but not when someone tries to impress other new players with complete rubbish.
This is just a rather extreme specimen of the kind of players that blames everyone/everything else for his own shortcomings. Suck SA?? Of course, they don't have external views on! I crashed on landing? Of course, someone else turned the CV! :rofl
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He must be flying now then.... I could have sworn his current tour k/d was .17 when I checked a few minutes ago :uhoh
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He must be flying now then.... I could have sworn his current tour k/d was .17 when I checked a few minutes ago :uhoh
The scores are from a few hours ago.
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Sheesh - I'd not normally post a direct answer to something like this, but this guy is, frankly, misguided at best. The trainers will work with anyone, generally at a time that is mutually convenient (even if, being a numpty like me, you cant work out time differences and miss it).
They do not sit on the ground critiquing, they will up a plane with you, and guide you thru the process, describing what they are doing and why, and why its important.
I cant say anything about your k/d ratio (trust me, mines worse - especially this month, trying to learn the 38), but I can say that is not an indication of how good a pilot you are up against.
I suck at this game (ask anyone, most of the people in this thread have killed me one time or another), but you know what, I have fun every time I play - and oddly enough, I'm always learning something.
WTG on being Fireman of the Year (and I mean that seriously - whilst its not germane to this discussion, it IS something you should be proud of)
Wurzel
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:rofl Lusche let me get you a beer :rofl That was outstanding :aok
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Conversely ...
I sought out any good/great stick (Drex, Leviathn, Shane, Mathman, Fariz, Sax, Toad, Rude, AKAK, Twinboom, Fester, etc) and took them head-on ... I got my arse handed to me over and over, but overtime, after engaging these guys and watching the films, my skill level increased dramatically. Had I played the "timid" game and worried whether I died or made it home, after 7 years, I doubt that my skill level would have progressed to the point it is now.
I am by far NOT one of the best in this game, but if you do fight me ... you will know that you are in a fight ... and we will fight until one of us is dead.
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I just started laughing when I read this post.
Check my score. Its like .5 k/d....LOLOL. But that is because I fly from caped bases, fly low into hords, intentionally let people on my six, fly low, and fight any better pilot I spot. If I wanted 5.0 k/d i could have it. But that number means nothing to me. What does matter is the "fight". I usually get 4 or 5 really great fights each night but sometimes none. And I fly A LOT of sorties. Does this mean I am a safe target????? heheheh well just catch me low and slow sometime and we shall see.
From day one I saught out the best pilots and engaged them anytime I could. The best way to alienate them is to follow your advice. If you fight them when you can and get there attention perhaps by acutally killing or even just showing good sportsmanship they will open thier doors to you. If you show cowardace tactics you can bet you won't get one bit of help.
\which is why i am always more than happy to get low and slow with you in the da cause i know ill get a good fight no matter what and maybe learn something. i have managed to kill you a few times and it's done wonders for me to gain some cofidence and see what im doing wrong.
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pilots that i look out for
1. murdr
2akak
3agent 360
4. moot
pretty much all the older guys
im happy when i kill em and even happier to die to em.
<S>
im so scared of k-4's and p38's lol oh yea and tal-152's :rofl :rofl :rofl
steve you should fight these guys show you how to own!!!!
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pilots that i look out for
1. murdr
2akak
3agent 360
4. moot
pretty much all the older guys
im happy when i kill em and even happier to die to em.
<S>
im so scared of k-4's and p38's lol oh yea and tal-152's :rofl :rofl :rofl
steve you should fight these guys show you how to own!!!!
Never be scared of anyone in a decent ride, I can go name 50 top pilots and their rides, and i look forward to running
into them every chance I get. Why? Your facing a master of his ride, only way your gona learn is fly against them.
Flying against number guys on 2 week trials in spit 16's all time wont get you anywhere.
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:rofl Lusche let me get you a beer :rofl That was outstanding :aok
I bet he's going to want one of those fancy imported beers... like a Budweiser :D
Don't let Slapshot fool you. He's one of the best F6F/FM2 sticks in the game. I wish he'd come join us in the LWA's sometime so I could fight him.
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i dont know but slapshot went down pretty easy to my warble last night and i wasnt even moving :D :salute
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I bet he's going to want one of those fancy imported beers... like a Budweiser :D
Don't let Slapshot fool you. He's one of the best F6F/FM2 sticks in the game. I wish he'd come join us in the LWA's sometime so I could fight him.
I was in the blue arena for a couple of hours last night.
i dont know but slapshot went down pretty easy to my warble last night and i wasnt even moving :D :salute
I still am having a hard time trying to figure out dogfighting angles on stationary objects ... :rolleyes:
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:) Orange arena was full where my squady LTAR's were, so i thought id warm up alittle and you were deacking a VB, only reason i remembered your name was i was just reading this thread before i started playing the game, maby theres a way to curve those bullets left or right :aok
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So basically I am hearing "I have done none of those things Lute, I have only flown since March, and I am unwilling to log the hours, days, months and years it takes to be "good" at this game".
I like to compare this game to a musical instrument. If someone just started playing the piano 3 months ago, should they be able to play Chopin's Impromptu No. 4 in C sharp minor Op. 66?
(sigh)
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So basically I am hearing "I have done none of those things Lute, I have only flown since March, and I am unwilling to log the hours, days, months and years it takes to be "good" at this game".
I like to compare this game to a musical instrument. If someone just started playing the piano 3 months ago, should they be able to play Chopin's Impromptu No. 4 in C sharp minor Op. 66?
(sigh)
Could not have said it any better Lute <S> He just doesn't get it.
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I skipped over a lot of posts....
But first of all...
I started flying online WW2 sims in '96. 90 plus percent of everything I've learned about air combat was by seeking out the better sticks and fighting with them. Not by avoiding them. It wasn't until like 3-4 years later until I decided to do some research into the theory and figure out why what I had learned actually works. So I consider that piece of advise poor.
Another thing is that films do in fact show flap deployment on other planes. A player cannot always watch a film and figure out exactly what they did wrong, but if they have a more experienced player look at it, they can. I often fill requests to evaluate a film in that manner.
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I wish the film viewer showed deflection of elevators, aileron and rudder, as well. It'd REALLY help with seeing what the pilot's doing during maneuvers.
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Yep... If the trails were color coded for the planes' speeds, that'd make ACM even clearer.
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Yep... If the trails were color coded for the planes' speeds, that'd make ACM even clearer.
that's a great idea :aok
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The only way your EVER going to learn to be a decent, forget about great, pilot is to actually fight and die. Score shouldn't be a thought in your mind right now.
You can BnZ or hit and run, but even then, while your booming, someone else is already climbing to get co-alt with you on your zoom. Someone with a faster, or better turning plane then yours. What do you do now, run for your life and hope to make it home, or shoot them down?
If i were you, at this point in the game, i would pick 1 plane, turn stall limiter off, turn on your flight recorder, and fly it to every furball. Fly there between 2k-6k with 50% fuel and no drop tank, and engage anyone and everyone. Base defense is another way. Your going to die ALOT, but your SA, gunnery, acm, and communication skills will double. Just get in there and fight till you die, or there are no enemies left to kill.
Review your films, and make mental notes of what worked and what didn't from sortie to sortie.
Try and stick to 1 plane for now.
and
Go to the Training Arena, and get some help there.
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If i were you, at this point in the game, i would pick 1 plane, turn stall limiter off, turn on your flight recorder, and fly it to every furball. Fly there between 2k-6k with 50% fuel and no drop tank, and engage anyone and everyone. Base defense is another way. Your going to die ALOT, but your SA, gunnery, acm, and communication skills will double. Just get in there and fight till you die, or there are no enemies left to kill.
That's the way I did it when I started 12 years ago. Went and jumped into the middle of every furball I could find. You learn a lot really quickly doing that.
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wow, thats just about the worst advice I've ever seen given...
This game is difficult, there ARE many resources to get better, most of the time it's as simple as asking. There is only 1 way to get better, and that is to fight people who are better than you, otherwise you learn nothing, and most likely degrade what skills you have, because you don't need to test them at all. Just leads to sloppy flying. Sure, you can take the path of a picker/vulcher, inflate scores in hopes that others might think you are the greatest cartoon airplane pilot to ever live. Then again, most you have been around a bit, will just think of you as a picker/vulcher. Some enjoy flying for rank, it is fun for them. Personally I find it quite boring, but that is just me. Don't ever think that because you/someone else has a "good" rank that you are automatically an ace. I think most you have been around awhile judge that by their encounters with you. b'n'z isn't gonna get you there.
For those who really want to get better, you need to put some effort in, and even then it will take time. You will still die lots, so don't get frustrated. There are many guys who would share information with you and spend time helping you learn, just make sure they actually now a thing or 2. (not like the orginal poster, troll or not). Above all, skill isn't the only thing, sitting back and just enjoying the game is not to be over looked.
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not once have i ever asked someone for help and not recieved it.no matter what country me or them fly for.there's several that probably dont like me much at times but still willing to help me if i ask them.skyrock is a good example, probably most hated man in the game and we've had our words, but he'll bent over backwards to help someone out.he has called me a skilless noob one day and walk me though moves and oftered to help me set my joystick up better the next.it's a great game full of great people and help around every corner. :salute
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This post has actually revived my faith in the community. It brought out alot of guys disagreeing, and that's good.
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not once have i ever asked someone for help and not recieved it.no matter what country me or them fly for.there's several that probably dont like me much at times but still willing to help me if i ask them.skyrock is a good example, probably most hated man in the game and we've had our words, but he'll bent over backwards to help someone out.he has called me a skilless noob one day and walk me though moves and oftered to help me set my joystick up better the next.it's a great game full of great people and help around every corner. :salute
im same way, I run my mouth on 200 - but you seen what i do in training arena its not trying to prove im better or anything but
help newer guys learn the game and enjoy it same as I do, honestly don't bother me even if a guy learns a few things on his
two week trial and quit, least he got a piece of the action and whether you like it or not thats up to you.
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Stephen Waldron is the 2nd greatest pilot in Aces High; I of course #1.
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Stephen Waldron is the 2nd greatest pilot in Aces High; I of course #1.
Bout time we had that straightened out...:)
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The question that intrigues me most is whether S. Waldron is the same person as Valerio.
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If I wanted 5.0 k/d i could have it. But that number means nothing to me.
Would you mind proving that ;)
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well, let's make it very very simple for the newbies.
1)read whatever you can find on the trianers help page
2)go to the TA, and seek help
3)go into any of the MA's, and fight anything that has a red icon
4)thisone is the most important. HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Allot of newbies dont think its fun to continually get shot down in seconds and when you read the real life accounts of ww2 pilots there approach has certain similarities to that proposed.
The problem with allot of the contributors on here is they have OBVIOUSLY forgotten what it is like to be at the other end of the food chain. What they seem to do is mimick the worst kind of behaviour in the MA i.e. all gang up on someone who is percieved to be weak and different,
Shame on all you flamers you should know better :mad:
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BS. When I started, I kept upping and kept looking for hints to what was going on, since, after all, everyone was playing the same game.. If they (who were beating me) could do it, so could I. Making mistakes is understandable, not trying is not excusable.
The only difference was that back then, H2H still existed, and it had rooms no bigger than 1 sector where you could rejoin the fight in a matter of 10 seconds.
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And if you want to practice a particular atack like bounce or a defflection shot you dont get many goes at an Ace. When you practice anything new you learn most by practicing and playing with people at a similar level because you enjoy what you are doing.
Most of the comments here seem to come from people who know allot about flying but little else about motivated learning.
I have a low score in a fighter but have been around long enough to access the opposition initially I was very discouraged by people who quite frankly made me look useless. When I can give them a wide berth as in couple of bounces and away it makes for more fun and I can see how the react without having to re up.
And for all those of little brain who say you can ask for help you still have to learn in a schematic sense basic skills like flying looking over your shoulder or looking sideways using controls without looking just like driving a car or riding a bicycle and these are not well learned in very short battles.
Stephen Waldron Clearly has a good point and as for the detractors again you may know how to fly a plane in Aces high but you clearly know very little else :rolleyes:
Just be thankfull someone articulate has come along and been able to point out what a bunch of conceited narrow minded something ending in ****ers you can be.
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Ok, this is how I approach flying. Don't know if it's right but.....first I pick a plane and stay in it, learn it. my case I like the ponyD.I try to fly it like my real life depends on it.Through reading, flying with people who know mustangs, and watching flims I know what it can and can't do.From being shot down thousands of times I've learned how to approach certain planes, not all but most and that just takes seat time.Instead of just diving into a fight I look at situation first.What's above and below me. Who sees me,who does'nt, who's faster or slower then me, and who is the most skilled in the area,for he has to be engaged first.Also having friendlys around that communicate is key too.Check 6, make him turn, keep him straight...that sort of thing. I try to communicate, fly smarter, and know my cartoon plane better then the enemy. It don't always work but it sure helps.
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.I try to fly it like my real life depends on it.
This is where you are going wrong. You should chArge at the nearest Ace irrespective of altitude, relative E, plane type, odds etc get shot down straight away and then you will learn.
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Yables,
You're misinterpreting what's being said, here.
Flight basics should be learned in the Training Arena. If a new player can't get his gear up, get off the runway or read his instruments he shouldn't be trying to piece this all together in the Mains.
However while the Training Arena works for teaching THEORY, there's a BIG difference between fighting with blanks and a live-fire situation. This is why my squadron rarely uses the Training Arena for practice/training unless we specifically need its resources (LCOS, etc) and use the Duelling Arena instead, because while you can count pings in the TA, there's no feedback that tells you whether this was a hard hit in convergence that knocked your wing off, or if you put just enough twitch into your flight path to scatter the shots. Quite frankly, I've learned FAR more on how to fight in my preferred ride by getting shot at "for real" in the Mains than I ever did practicing with more experienced pilots in the Training Arena.
Now maybe one option is to have a "Two Weekers" arena. If you're in the two week trial period, you have access only to the TA, DA, and Two Weekers arena. Players with paid memberships are barred entry from this arena. This would establish the "level" playing field. However even then there's just the reality that all players are NOT created equal. Some guys come in their first day and, perhaps because of previous sim experience or just because they're hardcore gamers can jump right in and start blowing guys away. Others can play for weeks or months or years and just not get it, but still have fun in trying.
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And if you want to practice a particular atack like bounce or a defflection shot you dont get many goes at an Ace. When you practice anything new you learn most by practicing and playing with people at a similar level because you enjoy what you are doing.
BS again, and BS to everything you hinge on this faulty premise. I upped and got shot, and kept upping and kept trying over and over again because the only really useful training is training in live conditions, regardless of the opponent skill. Maybe you learn what a plane can do offline, maybe once online you limit your focus to one thing - SA, gunnery, ACM, etc - but you certainly gain nothing from avoiding live conditions.
Not only do you miss the practical sharpening of your own skills, but by avoiding the fight with anyone better than you, you lose the opportunity to capture what the better guy did on film, to watch it as many times from as many different angles as you wish.. That's solid gold to the new guy. You'd have the new guy pass up on this opportunity?
As for being a narrow minded ***er, bite me. I saw opportunity, and grabbed it.. Just like in real life, everyone plays by the same rules and gets what they deserve. No more, no less. What did you do? What do you want the new guys to do? Beg someone to hold their hand and resignate themselves to some crappy methods and misleading BS about the "aces"' intentions, like Waldron suggests? What two-bit soap opera did that come out of?
Train like you fight, fight like you train. You shed no blood in pixel combat, so take advantage of it.
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I dont think I am missing the point I think there are lots of good reasons why newer or less able pilots would want to avoid meeting more experienced and able pilots other than with the advantage. When they are losing the advantage it is sound advice to get out of there and in practice if anyone reads real accounts pilots in WW2 did secure the advantage and if they new who the aces were they would have ignored them.
Now I know someone is going to state the obvious and say its only a game etc BUT:
We all know its not fun if everyone flies like a kamakaze. If one does not have any desire to avoid being killed then the game quickly loses all meaning and no one enjoys or learns much form being repeatedly shot down.
Some of the better pilots on here have skill levels vastly exceeded by their ego's and forget that they secure the advantage in fights all the time by aiming to conserve E and gain altitude over an opponent but when someone comes up with a strategy to get more kills, get killed less and increase their score (which is also a part of the game) we get this stampede of would be experts.
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I dont think I am missing the point I think there are lots of good reasons why newer or less able pilots would want to avoid meeting more experienced and able pilots other than with the advantage. When they are losing the advantage it is sound advice to get out of there and in practice if anyone reads real accounts pilots in WW2 did secure the advantage and if they new who the aces were they would have ignored them.
Because, y'know, this is World War II and we all have only one virtual life to live.
We all know its not fun if everyone flies like a kamakaze. If one does not have any desire to avoid being killed then the game quickly loses all meaning and no one enjoys or learns much form being repeatedly shot down.
Fighting someone and dieing over and over again is not 'kamikaze like'... it's practice. 'Kamikaze' is taking a loaded 38 or 47 and dive bombing and crashing into a CV. This is another example of avoiding the fight; no one else can have fun because 1; the CV is now down and 2; they never got a chance to fight the P47/P38.
Some of the better pilots on here have skill levels vastly exceeded by their ego's and forget that they secure the advantage in fights all the time by aiming to conserve E and gain altitude over an opponent but when someone comes up with a strategy to get more kills, get killed less and increase their score (which is also a part of the game) we get this stampede of would be experts.
There are other ways to do this other than '1 pass and haul ass'.
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BS again, and BS to everything you hinge on this faulty premise. I upped and got shot, and kept upping and kept trying over and over again because the only really useful training is training in live conditions, regardless of the opponent skill. Maybe you learn what a plane can do offline, maybe once online you limit your focus to one thing - SA, gunnery, ACM, etc - but you certainly gain nothing from avoiding live conditions.
Not only do you miss the practical sharpening of your own skills, but by avoiding the fight with anyone better than you, you lose the opportunity to capture what the better guy did on film, to watch it as many times from as many different angles as you wish.. That's solid gold to the new guy. You'd have the new guy pass up on this opportunity?
As for being a narrow minded ***er, bite me. I saw opportunity, and grabbed it.. Just like in real life, everyone plays by the same rules and gets what they deserve. No more, no less. What did you do? What do you want the new guys to do? Beg someone to hold their hand and resignate themselves to some crappy methods and misleading BS about the "aces"' intentions, like Waldron suggests? What two-bit soap opera did that come out of?
Train like you fight, fight like you train. You shed no blood in pixel combat, so take advantage of it.
I didnt say anything about of line. All in the main arena, develpoping you skills while not getting killed all the time. Being around long enough to make mistakes and get away with them which you dont get a chance to do when up against an ace. Narrow minded because people enjoy the game in different ways and not everyone is into a fantasy macho trial by fire ego trip. Most people want a decent fight as soon as possible and they wont get this from an Ace which is what the original post was about.
Any more and I am banging my head on a brick wall. Those who are going to get it will have done by now.
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Fighting the fight regardless of the odds, isn't flying Kamakazi. It's recognizing that no one is really dying, this isn't world war 2, and the challenge is the fight. Win or lose.
Flying safe for fear you might get pixilated is silly. It speaks far more to the desire to see the name in lights and get their 'attaboys'.
Last night Del and I were out in the 38s for a bit. Del was flying my wing, and as he has always done, he followed me into the mob. After getting a couple kills, I died my usual horrific death, but had a blast trying to get them all to miss. Del came out of it dinged up but rtb. He landed 8 kills. Everyone was a product of his shooting ability, and timing within the mass of planes. Those 8 kills were earned.
Too often you see guys landing and the crowd goes wild and you know they've hung over a crowd and had someone else doing the work where they've either picked or they've vulched. It's their dime and if that's what they think is fun, more power to em, but many of us see that as no challenge at all.
Because this is a game, and because no one dies, we have the chance to test our cartoon fighters in ways that a wartime combat pilot couldn't or wouldn't because in that case it was one life and you are out.
So why not test your limits and your cartoon fighting ability because you can with no real risk?
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Because this is a game, and because no one dies, we have the chance to test our cartoon fighters in ways that a wartime combat pilot couldn't or wouldn't because in that case it was one life and you are out.
So why not test your limits and your cartoon fighting ability because you can with no real risk?
The reality of the situation is this game is great because you are trying to kill real people who dont want to be killed. I am not particularly interested in testing Cartoon fighters and I susspect neither are you. If your young or of a certain dissposition (usually) you will get impatient and fly around in the middle of a furball putting yourself to chance where skill will still make a difference, Dont be upset though that more patient temperaments will prey on you. You may have more skill but they have another skill (often) self control. They will use that against you everywhere. If your objective is just to have fun fine its all fun but dont start on with this earned kills stuff or next it will be dweeb this and Boo Hoo he hoed me and I was about to lane ex million kills.
We all like it our way but if we got it it wouldnt be fun, the kids and those who refuse to grow up dont understand that. Mr Waldron is speaking from the point of view of someone who is not an ace and wants to learn and make the most of what he has and he isnt putting anyone down or telling them what to do.
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Appologioes posted twice
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The reality of the situation is this game is great because you are trying to kill real people who dont want to be killed. I am not particularly interested in testing Cartoon fighters and I susspect neither are you. If your young or of a certain dissposition (usually) you will get impatient and fly around in the middle of a furball putting yourself to chance where skill will still make a difference, Dont be upset though that more patient temperaments will prey on you. You may have more skill but they have another skill (often) self control. They will use that against you everywhere. If your objective is just to have fun fine its all fun but dont start on with this earned kills stuff or next it will be dweeb this and Boo Hoo he hoed me and I was about to land ex million kills. You all know who you are rolleyes
We all like it our way but if we got it it wouldnt be fun, the kids and those who refuse to grow up dont understand that. Mr Waldron is speaking from the point of view of someone who is not an ace and wants to learn and make the most of what he has and he isnt putting anyone down or telling them what to do.
So now having the desire and skill to mix it up is childish and stupid?
Mr Waldron is speaking from the point of view of someone who is not an ace and wants to learn
If there is anything he has made clear on the forums it's that he does not want to take the time to learn.
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So now having the desire and skill to mix it up is childish and stupid?
If there is anything he has made clear on the forums it's that he does not want to take the time to learn.
No if you look closely I said people will take advantage of mixing it up by picking on those where there attention is elsewhere for example in the middle of a furball. Now if you are in the middle of a furball doing your heroic best :lol complaining about it is childish because it shows a lack of maturity when interpreting the game.
Again its not that someone does not want to take the time to learn it is that they approach the game in a different more historical way which they enjoy more. I doubt there were any really brave Aces in WW2 as they all got killed early. To some extent its possible to summise these things by the way the game is played.
Anyway this approach seems to be decried by those who do not have that kind of patience or interest or maybe have more of themselves invested in this than is perhaps healthy.
Do you think you will get it eventually?
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No if you look closely I said people will take advantage of mixing it up by picking on those where there attention is elsewhere for example in the middle of a furball. Now if you are in the middle of a furball doing your heroic best :lol complaining about it is childish because it shows a lack of maturity when interpreting the game.
There wasn't even a 'vague implication' that furballers are childish and impatient. Perhaps you should pay more attention to what you type.
If your young or of a certain dissposition (usually) you will get impatient and fly around in the middle of a furball putting yourself to chance where skill will still make a difference,
Anyway this approach seems to be decried by those who do not have that kind of patience or interest or maybe have more of themselves invested in this than is perhaps healthy.
I can BnZ all I want. I've done it before over hordes of enemies and come out unscathed with 5-6 kills. There's no challenge in it. That's why I normally don't do it.
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...if anyone reads real accounts pilots in WW2 did secure the advantage and if they new who the aces were they would have ignored them.
Actually, Boyington never had his victories displayed on a plane while he was flying it because otherwise he'd have every Japanese pilot in the sky gunning for him.
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Actually, Boyington never had his victories displayed on a plane while he was flying it because otherwise he'd have every Japanese pilot in the sky gunning for him.
Russian pilots DID avoid Hartmann when he had the black tulip pattern on his 109 though. To the extent that he had to take it off to consistently get more kills.
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There wasn't even a 'vague implication' that furballers are childish and impatient. Perhaps you should pay more attention to what you type.
I can BnZ all I want. I've done it before over hordes of enemies and come out unscathed with 5-6 kills. There's no challenge in it. That's why I normally don't do it.
Are you a bit sensitive when it comes to criticism. It seems when the horde are deriding a non horde opinion anything goes, but when it comes to any suggestion of doing anything unlike a teenage boy this is sacralegiously offensive and seen as cheating.
Anyway as ive said this is not just a game for kids and big kids endlessly saying their way is the only way and crying when someone shoots them down in not exactly the way they wanted.
I hope someone has an epipheny soon :pray
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Are you a bit sensitive when it comes to criticism. It seems when the horde are deriding a non horde opinion anything goes, but when it comes to any suggestion of doing anything unlike a teenage boy this is sacralegiously offensive and seen as cheating.
I'm not 'sensitive'. The suggestion that playing this game for the fight and not caring whether you 'die' or not is childish is stupid.
BTW, you and Waldren, the two who support the whole 'fly like your life depends on it' thing, have the worst K/D's out of anyone else who posted in this thread.
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There wasn't even a 'vague implication' that furballers are childish and impatient. Perhaps you should pay more attention to what you type.
I can BnZ all I want. I've done it before over hordes of enemies and come out unscathed with 5-6 kills. There's no challenge in it. That's why I normally don't do it.
No I am saying quite clearly that people of an impatient disposition will take more chances and there is an obvious element of chance in a furball and youth normally is associated with impatience. So those who are more patient will use a safer method as that is irrespective of skill acknowledged if you know what you are talking about the way to get allot of kills without and here is the bit you dont seem to get. Without getting killed. If kills are your objective which is what the originsl post alluded to.
Now we get the I can do this and that stuff if I want to which has nothing to do with it as it is not personal.
Why do I feel like I suddenly have a teenage son? :cry :cry :pray :cry
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It's not impatience. There's simply no satisfaction involved with picking someone once you've done it hundreds of times. I get much more satisfaction fighting someone with a lot of skill, and winning or losing, than when I land 8, 9, 10 easy kills.
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Some valid points are being made on both sides of the argument.
I can see a beginners point of view of not wanting to get shot down immediately, and I honestly believe that in the vast majority of cases beginners (and many "intermediate" players) won't have any idea of what happened, or why, or what they could have / should have done differently. Getting slaughtered won't make them any better. And winning won't either, for the exact same reasons. And film IS worthless for anything beyond entertainment unless you know how to interpret what you're seeing, and can visualize other possible options and results.
My kids would love the idea of learning from students with equal skill level, but as a parent I can't agree. I think tossing a 5th grade algebra book into a classroom of 5th graders with the instructions "figure it out with your peers of equal knowledge" would be a mistake. I'm sure they'd all feel pretty equal though, and come out confident that they had it down, hehe. They need the influence of someone who actually knows what they're talking about, and who is willing to share the knowledge in a manner that makes sense and keeps pace with the students growing abilities.
AH is the same way- you won't learn very quickly without willing teachers.
You can only learn so much from fighting others of your skill level. However, those fights will SEEM like great fights, and you'll come out feeling like you've accomplished a great feat if you win, or like you held your own if you lose. It's false security though. The fact that you're both making similar mistakes is what's allowing the fight to continue so long. The reason a beginner vs vet fight is so quick is due to both the vets lack of mistakes, and his ability to see / capitolize on the beginners. Even when the vet makes a mistake the beginner is likely to not even see it, let alone be able to do anything about it (is he even looking in the right direction???).
And also realize that if my opponent only requires me to use 5% of my skill to defeat him, that's all I use. He'll never see the otther 95% unless he makes me show it to him. If I can simply pull behind him and shoot him, I don't do 4 loops and 3 barrel rolls first! Throttle control? Flaps? Why bother?
Stephen's point of running away from the fight when things go sour is like a student answering questions he knows, but avoiding those he doesn't. "2+2? Sure, I know that! 4!" but "2+2(6*7)? Hmm, gotta run!" Unfortunately, he's partially right. If he stays when things go sour fighting someone more experienced, he's very likely to be shot down, regardless of plane types involved or who has advantage. And since he skips out when things get tough, he won't be able to figure out why, simply from the point of lacking experience.
His method INSURES he won't ever possess the skills he fears.
The fact is, achieving success in AH requires a lot of effort. And not just in the game. Are any of the "successful" pilots going to argue that they make no effort to figure things out, outside the game? Research through reading, watching films, etc? Working WITH others, in a teacher / student type relationship? Working with someone who is WILLING and ABLE to teach you is different than simply being shot down by them in the MA... And learning very basic tactics, like BnZ = high speed pass and run if you're not immediately successful. You'll never learn the finer points of BnZ if that's all you do, and you won't be all that successful as a result.
The important point of this discussion seems to me to be one that routinely comes up amongst the trainers. How do we spread the most knowledge in the most efficient manner? Working 1 on 1 on the TA is great- for one at a time. It doesn't do much for the masses though. Ideas have been discussed and are beginning to be implemented to work with more people at a time. Hopefully that works, but it has potential issues too. Regular availability of busy volunteers (trainers) is one, another is less intensive 1v1 training for individuals. Personally I think it's going to be a great way to spread a lot of basic knowledge in a short period, and still leaves room for 1 on 1 training outside of that program. BTW, someone mentioned that a thread (this one?) lead to that idea. Nope, it was already in discussion, and was not related to this thread at all. Just a coincidence...
Sure, there are ways for an interested and motivated individual to find information and help to be more successful in this game. Anyone have any better ideas? Or maybe just some more good ones? I know there are many willing to help, but how can it be done more efficiently? The less-skilled players want to be better, and the more-skilled players want better competition- how do we do that?
MtnMan
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I'm not 'sensitive'. The suggestion that playing this game for the fight and not caring whether you 'die' or not is childish is stupid.
BTW, you and Waldren, the two who support the whole 'fly like your life depends on it' thing, have the worst K/D's out of anyone else who posted in this thread.
Because we are learing at a different level of skill and experience I expect and our experience is we probably would nt enjoy an even lower kill death ratio. i.e. no fun.
Isnt that obvious. We are the less able new people trying to communicate a way to enjoy yourself more while learning the skills others already have. I understand why he avoids aces and fights where he has no advantage. He can get kills without being killed all the time.
Your hard work you are :uhoh
I know you would just like to fall back on Iam a better pilot than you so Iam fright about everything. You know more ACM I am sure but this is no loger a peeing contest
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Because we are learing at a different level of skill and experience I expect and our experience is we probably would nt enjoy an even lower kill death ratio. i.e. no fun.
Isnt that obvious. We are the less able new people trying to communicate a way to enjoy yourself more while learning the skills others already have. I understand why he avoids aces and fights where he has no advantage. He can get kills without being killed all the time.
Your hard work you are :uhoh
I know you would just like to fall back on Iam a better pilot than you so Iam fright about everything. You know more ACM I am sure but this is no loger a peeing contest
You're statements would make sense if you hadn't been playing the game longer than I.
Despite the fact you have at least 5 (I got into the game in May of '07) months on me, your timid flying (I assume) and my willingness to mix it up caused myself to progress much further in a shorter amount of time than you. And unless you're willing to mix it up and not worry about your K/D you will never get better.
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It's not impatience. There's simply no satisfaction involved with picking someone once you've done it hundreds of times. I get much more satisfaction fighting someone with a lot of skill, and winning or losing, than when I land 8, 9, 10 easy kills.
And thats why you are to be avoided. ;)
You are only fun for me when I have the advantage other wise game over.
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In response to MtnMan the way I do what little I do to help a new player I encounter is with the 'pay it forward' approach. I had literally dozens of people help, offer to help, direct me to links, etc, when I first started playing. If someone approaches me for help, so long as they're not being annoying about it, I tell them what I know vs what I think and if I truly don't know the answer I direct them to people I know are both willing to help a new guy and are more experienced than I am.
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There's also a difference between what Waldron is advocating and FIGHTING. I hate getting shot down. I do everything I possibly can within the capabilities of my ride to get home with enough pieces to land again. But in doing so I will take on any red plane that crosses my path. If I'm at an advantage I won't neutralize to give him a fair fight. If I'm at a disadvantage I'll work to neutralize HIS. Neutral state I'm still in. I don't give up an altitude advantage against half a dozen opponents just to give THEM the fun of hordeing a lone con, but instead use my position to create a fight more to my liking or wait for better circumstances to engage. I clear friendly sixes and set up friendlies so THEY can get a kill. If I'm in a position to out-turn an opponent I will. If I need to BnZ him to death I'll do THAT, too. I'm regularly right there in the middle of the furballs, and when I was flying more regularly I still maintained a K/D flirting in double-digits.
The problem is this is NOT what Waldron is talking about. He's saying the only way to fight is to sit on a perch and not fight anyone you don't have a massive advantage in speed and altitude, so if you miss your one pass you can run home and not have to be afraid of the mean old red plane at co-alt you can't bounce and may actually have to use ACM against.
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mtnman
The bit the trainers miss in my opinion is its not just monkey see monkey do. You have to practice and become familiar. You build in Biological terms the regular neural pathways by repetition in different situations. The best way to learn is to add a new skill at intervals to your existing set and for this you need to practice. your algebra example is not relevant allot of ah is not intelectual it is physical skill. Best way to learn is to learn while enjoying yourself in the game then when you have practiced the new skills in combat in prolonged fights go back and learn more or you plateau. You got the bit about the level difference meaning neither learns any thing. For that I thank you and I think you explained it very well but the algebra bit is erroneous. You can write down an example in algebra and extrapolate in AH allot of it is learning to use the pencil.
Allot of people think because they know something they can teach it. First you need to know how you learned it and then you have to understand not everyone learns the same way.
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yes, he is right. Instead of learning how to use barrel roll defense, overshoots, rolling and flat scissors, managing flaps/throttle, you should fly as they did in ww2. throttle 100%, point nose down, shoot, fly back up and run home.
Honestly, I think people who use the word "fly realistic" many times do no justice to "real" pilots or their abilities. I see it used alot, and many times it is used an excuse for score padding and lack of knowledge of how to fight in general. Not always, but often.
The people who fly for the fight, want to put up cartoon skills against others. If you want to do this, and be any good at it, you have to practice. It doesn't happen over night, maybe months and years to perfect. It is much more fun than diving in a con, where the outcome is determined if he sees you or not. If he does see you, go back up, and wait until he is fighting someone else. If after 1 pass, and you think he might be good, you run. If he shoots you down, then you don't go back. Keep doing this, tell them you are flying as the did in ww2, and you should be expected to be looked upon as a good pilot. Also this advice will make you a better pilot. :rolleyes:
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By the way, the most successful ace in western Europe, Hans-Joachim Marseille, (154 kills) was what we would describe as a 'furballer'. He died bailing out of his Bf.109G-1 due to a (non combat related) engine fire. Gerhard Barkhorn (301 kills) was described by Hartmann as a furballer as well. He survived the war.
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yes, he is right. Instead of learning how to use barrel roll defense, overshoots, rolling and flat scissors, managing flaps/throttle, you should fly as they did in ww2. throttle 100%, point nose down, shoot, fly back up and run home.
Honestly, I think people who use the word "fly realistic" many times do no justice to "real" pilots or their abilities. I see it used alot, and many times it is used an excuse for score padding and lack of knowledge of how to fight in general. Not always, but often.
The people who fly for the fight, want to put up cartoon skills against others. If you want to do this, and be any good at it, you have to practice. It doesn't happen over night, maybe months and years to perfect. It is much more fun than diving in a con, where the outcome is determined if he sees you or not. If he does see you, go back up, and wait until he is fighting someone else. If after 1 pass, and you think he might be good, you run. If he shoots you down, then you don't go back. Keep doing this, tell them you are flying as the did in ww2, and you should be expected to be looked upon as a good pilot. Also this advice will make you a better pilot. :rolleyes:
I think everyone who takes the trouble to learn the basics once they have mastered them will want to learn more as otheriwse it becomes boring and meaningless. Also other than perhaps at the very start no one went into battle without combat skills. I detect a certain insecurity in so many players that seem to feel they are not able to use their skills as they are being picked off by inferiors using obvious though effective tactics. My view is maybe your just not as good as you think you are and you should stop complaining or find something else to do.
BTW What is all this rushing to be a great cartoon mix it up hero. Judgeing by the people on here its just the road to bitter endless know it all criticism and self congratulation.
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You're statements would make sense if you hadn't been playing the game longer than I.
Despite the fact you have at least 5 (I got into the game in May of '07) months on me, your timid flying (I assume) and my willingness to mix it up caused myself to progress much further in a shorter amount of time than you. And unless you're willing to mix it up and not worry about your K/D you will never get better.
There are clearly allot more variables involved ;)
Do all your arguments degenerate into "I AM BETTER THAN YOU" ?
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There are clearly allot more variables involved ;)
Do all your arguments degenerate into "I AM BETTER THAN YOU" ?
No. Your argument was that I'm better than you so you have an excuse. I never said that until you did.
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The problem is this is NOT what Waldron is talking about. He's saying the only way to fight is to sit on a perch and not fight anyone you don't have a massive advantage in speed and altitude, so if you miss your one pass you can run home and not have to be afraid of the mean old red plane at co-alt you can't bounce and may actually have to use ACM against.
You forgot to put speech marks round that quote of Waldrons.
Its not what Waldron is saying so much as what you find frustrating. I think he struck a nerve with allot of people. I think part or acm is sensing when it is not going your way and sure you cant do that in one bounce you have to mix it more than that but if you know they guy is 10 times as good as you you need to get out early if your going to have a chance of getting home.
I am sure when you come up against someone who you know you can beat and they wont let you its frustrating. My answer to that is GOOOD :rock :lol
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Yarbles, so let me get this straight. You are proposing the same as Stephen Waldren then? Only engage from a position of advantage and don't stick around for a fight if it doesn't work?
In the extreme end of this scenario, players will begin to climb higher and higher in the arenas. No one will learn fighting skills, and the one with the fastest plane on the highest perch will be the ultimate winner. Correct?
It just seems to me this would become a pretty boring game for everyone involved but I guess if that's your idea of fun then have at it.
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I am sure when you come up against someone who you know you can beat and they wont let you its frustrating. My answer to that is GOOOD :rock :lol
No. I love that. I seek out SAPP members and others that I know are very good and can probably beat me. I love that. When someone beats me, I seek them out for another go. And again, and again, and again. It's more fun than cherry picking and it makes me better.
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mtnman
The bit the trainers miss in my opinion is its not just monkey see monkey do. You have to practice and become familiar. You build in Biological terms the regular neural pathways by repetition in different situations. The best way to learn is to add a new skill at intervals to your existing set and for this you need to practice. your algebra example is not relevant allot of ah is not intelectual it is physical skill. Best way to learn is to learn while enjoying yourself in the game then when you have practiced the new skills in combat in prolonged fights go back and learn more or you plateau. You got the bit about the level difference meaning neither learns any thing. For that I thank you and I think you explained it very well but the algebra bit is erroneous. You can write down an example in algebra and extrapolate in AH allot of it is learning to use the pencil.
Allot of people think because they know something they can teach it. First you need to know how you learned it and then you have to understand not everyone learns the same way.
Oh, trust me, I know (as do the other trainers) that it isn't anything like "monkey-see monkey-do". I tell my "students" flat out that they won't get the concepts down overnight, and that it takes a LOT of practice to achieve the results they desire. The "students" who have the most success come back again and again and again for more help. They need to take the ideas with them and work on them, and then come back for evaluation, refinement, and some new ideas to work on.
Your idea that there's more physical skill than intellectual skill at work is only true if you're fighting buildings. If you're fighting other players, you're just plain wrong. I see an opportunity for you to expand yourself here...
"Best way to learn is to learn while enjoying yourself in the game then when you have practiced the new skills in combat in prolonged fights go back and learn more or you plateau." I disagree. This is a good, easy, way to enjoy yourself in the game, but not the best or most efficient way to learn. Students learn better in a more formal teacher /student environment. I'm not saying they don't learn anything playing on the playground, mind you, I'm just saying they won't learn as much as they do in the classroom.
"You build in Biological terms the regular neural pathways by repetition in different situations." I agree here. It's just such a shame when bad habits are learned by repeating the wrong things. It's easier to teach the right things initially than it is to correct bad habits that have already been learned. How does a beginner know if he's learning the right things or not? The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?
MtnMan
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Yarbles, so let me get this straight. You are proposing the same as Stephen Waldren then? Only engage from a position of advantage and don't stick around for a fight if it doesn't work?
In the extreme end of this scenario, players will begin to climb higher and higher in the arenas. No one will learn fighting skills, and the one with the fastest plane on the highest perch will be the ultimate winner. Correct?
It just seems to me this would become a pretty boring game for everyone involved but I guess if that's your idea of fun then have at it.
./quote]
Good point but as as a realtive novice you have to have a strategy which gives you some control. If you are warned of an Ace eg thats wingzero you need to be cautious to stand a chance. I find if a bounce people a couple of times ive got an idea of whether i can kill them by how quickly or not they are turning the tables. I will kling onto their six if I think I can and the most skilled I think are those who dont let me see how good they are until its too late.
Maybe some of our self appointed experts could learn something from that.
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Yarbles, so let me get this straight. You are proposing the same as Stephen Waldren then? Only engage from a position of advantage and don't stick around for a fight if it doesn't work?
In the extreme end of this scenario, players will begin to climb higher and higher in the arenas. No one will learn fighting skills, and the one with the fastest plane on the highest perch will be the ultimate winner. Correct?
It just seems to me this would become a pretty boring game for everyone involved but I guess if that's your idea of fun then have at it.
./quote]
Good point but as as a realtive novice you have to have a strategy which gives you some control. If you are warned of an Ace eg thats wingzero you need to be cautious to stand a chance. I find if a bounce people a couple of times ive got an idea of whether i can kill them by how quickly or not they are turning the tables. I will kling onto their six if I think I can and the most skilled I think are those who dont let me see how good they are until its too late.
Maybe some of our self appointed experts could learn something from that.
Appologies for this
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Oh, trust me, I know (as do the other trainers) that it isn't anything like "monkey-see monkey-do". I tell my "students" flat out that they won't get the concepts down overnight, and that it takes a LOT of practice to achieve the results they desire. The "students" who have the most success come back again and again and again for more help. They need to take the ideas with them and work on them, and then come back for evaluation, refinement, and some new ideas to work on.
Your idea that there's more physical skill than intellectual skill at work is only true if you're fighting buildings. If you're fighting other players, you're just plain wrong. I see an opportunity for you to expand yourself here...
"Best way to learn is to learn while enjoying yourself in the game then when you have practiced the new skills in combat in prolonged fights go back and learn more or you plateau." I disagree. This is a good, easy, way to enjoy yourself in the game, but not the best or most efficient way to learn. Students learn better in a more formal teacher /student environment. I'm not saying they don't learn anything playing on the playground, mind you, I'm just saying they won't learn as much as they do in the classroom.
"You build in Biological terms the regular neural pathways by repetition in different situations." I agree here. It's just such a shame when bad habits are learned by repeating the wrong things. It's easier to teach the right things initially than it is to correct bad habits that have already been learned. How does a beginner know if he's learning the right things or not? The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?
MtnMan
I guess its a combination of Both intelectual and basic skills but without the skills you dont see far beyond the cockpit initially.
That 51 I would try to drag down low and slow I would let him up to 1k pretending I hadnt seen him. Then turn Like mad because I find it very hard to fly looking behind me. I.E I lack a basic skill with which to control the fight. I would like to go for the overshhot and reverse but in the turn I might loose vis. If I survived the pass and so did he I would be in a spit (usually) and I would climb like mad to try and equal the E.
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I think everyone who takes the trouble to learn the basics once they have mastered them will want to learn more as otheriwse it becomes boring and meaningless. Also other than perhaps at the very start no one went into battle without combat skills. I detect a certain insecurity in so many players that seem to feel they are not able to use their skills as they are being picked off by inferiors using obvious though effective tactics. My view is maybe your just not as good as you think you are and you should stop complaining or find something else to do.
BTW What is all this rushing to be a great cartoon mix it up hero. Judgeing by the people on here its just the road to bitter endless know it all criticism and self congratulation.
guess that is just your perception. I don't really care if I get picked. But to advocate that new players forget to learn what I would think to be even basic manuevers and concepts and just pick is doing a disservice to that player and to the general state of AH. I would rather fight people who want to fight and at least have a sense about how to go about it, rather than running and just wiggling back and forth. It doesn't matter so much who shoots down who, it's the act of getting to that point. picking offers little in the way of excitement. really, how excited can he be, I dove in, he didn't see me, he went down...rinse repeat. don't forget to add, he saw me, so I left. It's hard to imagine all of AH just climbing to 20k in the fastest planes, hoping to pick the other guy on climbout, or happening to run across someone lower. then just diving to deck back to base with tail between legs.
I would agree that at the beginning of ww2, ACM was still very young. But, maybe I'm wrong, pilots where trained as concepts were available/if pilots left to train. I would also imagine they spoke with other pilots about dog fighting. at any rate it is pointless to even try to compare a war and tactics to a video game, and there is no shortage of resources to learn
In all this what, I think, is not getting through, is that some of us don't care at all about how good or not good we are. We just want to have a good fight. why you think this means we are trying to be hero's I can only speculate. The more new people that come into this game, and learn how to put up a fight, the better for everyone. To the community it means better fights, and to the individual it opens up an interesting part of the game. If you have fun only b'n'z, running, etc.. then fine, but don't try to tell new players this is how you should play the game because it's easier than learning ACM.
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In all this what, I think, is not getting through, is that some of us don't care at all about how good or not good we are. We just want to have a good fight. why you think this means we are trying to be hero's I can only speculate. The more new people that come into this game, and learn how to put up a fight, the better for everyone. To the community it means better fights, and to the individual it opens up an interesting part of the game. If you have fun only b'n'z, running, etc.. then fine, but don't try to tell new players this is how you should play the game because it's easier than learning ACM.
What I find genuinely sad about this is that you have to speak as part of a group "we this and we that" and that at no point have i been trying to tell anyone what to do.
If you read earlier posts you will see that people are affronted by an alternative and obviously intermediate step to make the game more interesting at a certain level. Then we get macho assertions of how indivduals have clawed there way up against terrible odds to be the great pilots they are today. Then accusations about people with no skill deviously destroying the righteous in pursuit of the true game. Then how these individuals will pervert the new away from this righteous path of accomplished ACM.
Pompous Nonsense :D
Some guy comes on here and gives a few ideas and the response is awash with self righteous posturing by people who should surely know better.
In my humble ;) opinion
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The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?
I know this is a rhetorical question, but for demonstration purposes for Waldron I figured I'd weigh in:
First, if it's me I'm probably in an F4U, either a 1A or 4 if I'm looking for aerial kills. I also generally cruise at 15k if I'm not sure at what altitude the fight will be (and to deal with high-alt runners such as Mr. Waldron) so have plenty of air under me to work with. I see said Pony about 5k above me moving at a good clip.
My first move is to keep separation. I turn away and enter a shallow climb to use what distance I have to narrow the alt difference without shedding too much airspeed. I keep my eye on the 51 the entire time and watch for him to make his move. If I see him begin to close on me I level out my climb and enter a shallow turn--possibly slightly nose down to build a little speed--to keep him from getting into the blind spot under my tail. I hold this until I see him close to between 1000-1500 yards, then break hard into either a Split-S or Low-Yo under him. I know at high closure rates he can't follow that sort of maneuver and will have to pull out. As soon as I pull through the bottom I enter a zoom to regain altitude.
Here is where opponent skill affects my next move. If he's a newbie pilot he'll have likely overshot his dive and scrubbed his E trying to pull out, at which point, as I'm in my zoom, I just kick inside rudder and roll over the top and drop on him.
Against a more experienced opponent I extend in my zoom (he'll be doing the same). Generally I'll slowly be gaining over the P-51 on the zoom, courtesy of the Corsair's greater mass and raw power (especially in the F4U-4) so will get just a little more altitude over the Pony. I'll continue grabbing until I see the 51 reverse, then level to repeat the process above: shallow nose-low turn to keep him in view and maintain airspeed, a Low-Yo or Split-S at 1000-1500yds, then a zoom for altitude.
I repeat this either until I've neutralized the 51's alt advantage and can force him to engage in a Co-E/Co-Alt fight where the F4U will eat up the P-51, or until I've reversed positions and now have the energy advantage MSELF and can dictate the fight.
The question I have for Waldron, is how do YOU respond if you're the P-51, WITHOUT resorting to running the instant your first pass was evaded?
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It was a rhetorical question, and I didn't want to turn this into a discussion on tactics. But since we have two different answers from pilots of different skill levels, it might be worthwhile to point out the general differences.
Had Yarbles tried that vs me for example, I wouldn't have followed him low and slow. I'd have let him drop if he wanted, and simply picked him later when it was convenient and he'd lost his speed. Not because I wanted to pick him, but because he'd be "no threat" anymore, and I'd shift to planes that mattered. At this point his tactics are far from aggressive, so I'll put him in my category of "keep an eye on him, but look for bigger threats.
A) Kill the biggest threat first. He's not it, since he is willing to drop alt and E, it gives me a big hint as to his skill level and/or intentions. If he see's me not following and decides to come back up, he'll be in a bad position to deal with me. If he flies off the map and comes back above me, so much the better. I can dodge high planes 'til the cows come home, and the alt may make him feel confident enough to get himself in trouble.
B) I only put in the amount of effort required to shoot the guy down. If he wants to drop and make things easier for me, I'll put in less effort (I'll pick him). If he makes that difficult, I'll put more effort into it as well.
C) Following him low and slow puts me in a bad position for my next kill, especially if he's heading toward his field/ack. I don't need to stay high, but I don't want to be swarmed on the deck either. Having too much alt can be almost as bad as too little, unless sight-seeing is my goal.
Saxman though- he's a problem. He's trying to bleed my energy advantage, all the while maintaining or increasing his altitude and E relative to mine. It's going to take more effort to beat him, and it's going to be much more important that I do so. I can't let him go away like I can the guy who fights as Yarbles describes. I'm going to need to put a lot of pressure on Saxman to keep my advantage and press it home. Extending and giving him room to breath would be a bad idea. The fight may end up on the deck, but not right away. P51's can be beat up high too, and it's more advantagous to both of us to keep the fight high. It helps keeps the fight "private" if nothing else.
The difference is that Saxman has LEARNED how to deal with difficult situations, and can often reverse things in his favor. He didn't learn that by leaving when things got bad. He also didn't learn it by getting beat and not figuring out WHY and how to change that result. Getting beat (or winning, for that matter) IS pointless if you don't/can't learn from it. He's using more complex tactics that require more practice to master, but yield better results in the end. That also hints that if his initial "plan" doesn't work, he'll recognize that early enough to try other tactics. He didn't run away when the teacher pulled out the algebra book.
Personally, "living" is important to me as well. I'm not telling you to dive into the slaughter mindlessly. I take the most enjoyment from beating someone in a "fair" fight, and "living" to land my kills. Getting shot down is not equal to shooting him down, IMO. But picking someone for a kill isn't equal to beating him in a decent fight either. Picking is something I do while waiting for a decent fight, kind of like eating peanuts in a bar. Better than nothing I suppose, but not all that satisfying. Picking will never go away, but hopefully it won't become the "main" way of fighting either.
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I dont think I am missing the point I think there are lots of good reasons why newer or less able pilots would want to avoid meeting more experienced and able pilots other than with the advantage. When they are losing the advantage it is sound advice to get out of there and in practice if anyone reads real accounts pilots in WW2 did secure the advantage and if they new who the aces were they would have ignored them.
No. They should stack the odds on their side as much as they can, and fight it out to the end. They shouldn't just give up making any effort as soon as extreme bnz isn't possible anymore.
Better pilots with egos.. If they do pretend to be top tier but don't take a hard fight when given a chance.. they aren't top tier. I don't dodge good hard fights.. And the ego thing is mostly a convenient buzz word. Anyway it has nothing to do with the completely misleading "advice" you and the OP author keep repeating.
You can't learn anything if you don't do anything. That's what running away without fighting amounts to.
Narrow minded because people enjoy the game in different ways and not everyone is into a fantasy macho trial by fire ego trip.
Ha.. You're reading too much between the lines.. As much as I might give you that impression, I did it mostly because it was fun. I did persevere also because I like to win, but since you're obsessed with that aspect - I don't see how there's anything negative about that sort of ego. Where's the connection? Is the only way not to have excessive ego, to give up and make half-arsed efforts at what you try out?
What a completely bogus perspective..
Pompous Nonsense :D
Some guy comes on here and gives a few ideas and the response is awash with self righteous posturing by people who should surely know better.
In my humble ;) opinion
Completely wrong.. The "guy" comes in here and pretends to have some advice that's in fact completely misleading in terms of dogfighting etc, and also completely misrepresents the "aces" as you two keep putting it. He gets shot down for it as he should. You denounce it for what? The facts or the manner they were pointed out? Neither is misplaced.
"The aces want the noobs not to learn and give em easy kills". What a ton of crap.. If anything, the "aces" wish the newbies would better appreciate the art in air combat, and improve their skills so that everyone would have more fun in the process. A win-win situation.
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"The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?"
Since someone did open the tactics door I had almost this exact scenario this weekend, except I was in a Spit XVI with a Typhoon perched ~3K above me. We were the only ones in the area.
I turned my tail on him and stayed level until I saw him start to dive on me. I nosed down gradually, building speed and drawing him lower, the goal being to draw him off his perch and start to equalize E states. When he hit 1K out I reversed at near blackout. Moving faster, because he was gaining on me, there is no way he could turn tighter without going into a complete blackout.
When he didn't run, but stayed to fight I knew I was in for a good one. It was a good pilot (and a trainer). I won but I think he stalled trying to pull a vertical roll opposite tourqe and I sprayed him across the length of the fuelage from the side.
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What I find genuinely sad about this is that you have to speak as part of a group "we this and we that" and that at no point have i been trying to tell anyone what to do.
If you read earlier posts you will see that people are affronted by an alternative and obviously intermediate step to make the game more interesting at a certain level. Then we get macho assertions of how indivduals have clawed there way up against terrible odds to be the great pilots they are today. Then accusations about people with no skill deviously destroying the righteous in pursuit of the true game. Then how these individuals will pervert the new away from this righteous path of accomplished ACM.
Pompous Nonsense :D
Some guy comes on here and gives a few ideas and the response is awash with self righteous posturing by people who should surely know better.
In my humble ;) opinion
ok, fine, I'll drop the "we" and just replace it with I. Again I think your perception of what is going on with this thread is off. I think that the easiest way to go isn't going to help you get any better. I do not think I am a macho ace fighter pilot, but I have spent time in the muck learning the few things that I know. I hope that in the future there we be more pilots who want to get better instead of climbing to 20k and picking at furballs saying the are flying realistic. I don't care if I get picked, but I don't think of it as a good fight. I think you should fly however you like, but I think encouraging people to give up on trying to learn and get better is never a good thing. I think your perception of what is going on in this thread is way off. I think you and waldo (or whatever his name is if he hasn't been banned yet) are off base saying others are going on with "self righteous" posturing. In fact, I think they are noting the fact that learning is a process and no one is an ace in one day, everyone gets killed alot during this time. This is regarded, apparently, as self righteous posturing and pompous nonsense. This is help and training, telling someone to do something which in the long run won't help and is far from training seems odd at best. I think the next topic should be "the ins and outs of bomb'n'bail." I'm done now as I surely realize this is going nowhere
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I think you should fly however you like, but I think encouraging people to give up on trying to learn and get better is never a good thing. I think your perception of what is going on in this thread is way off. I think you and waldo (or whatever his name is if he hasn't been banned yet) are off base saying others are going on with "self righteous" posturing. In fact, I think they are noting the fact that learning is a process and no one is an ace in one day, everyone gets killed alot during this time. This is regarded, apparently, as self righteous posturing and pompous nonsense. This is help and training, telling someone to do something which in the long run won't help and is far from training seems odd at best.
Exactly..
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There's alot of good information in this thread
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dont know about you guys but this guy is a grade A troll.
I will say Bruv likes killing noobs and has a big baby seal club ready to be bathed in blood. The way I learnt was kill or be killed aint no other way baby!
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I think the big thing here is all attitude. "New guys" come in thinking they must survive, must land, must get there name in lights, must score points. While the vets (lets not call them aces) have already matured past that and realize that the real fun in this game is the fight. To a furballler, is plane against plane, to a GVer is tank against tank, to a land grabber, its stealing that next base in line from the enemy.
Waldron, and Yarbles both are advocating the "newbie" style, they just don't know any better....yet. The people who excel at this game are the ones who make that transition the fastest. Maybe you die a lot, but that doesn't matter, you jump into a new ride and continue the fight. Some you win some you lose, but either way its the fight we are all after.
Coming in here and posting....as a tip.... NOT to fight is counter productive. That is why this thread has stirred up so many comments. Once you learn that "the fight" is the reason to play this game you'll find it much more fun and less frustrating. You will also more likely get past any plateau and really start to excel in what ever area of fighting you like to play.
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Waldron,
Find a squad, and find a trainer. You will learn something everyday if you decide to ask questions and listen as opposed to presuming you have a clue. Regardless of your life experience.
A large established squad will have all skill levels and personality types represented most likely. This will increase the likelyhood that you will find a squaddie that meshes with you well enough to interpret the basic things that you need to learn to be able to enter a fight somewhat aggressively with a chance to win even without every advantage while having some squaddies around to save you from some of your mistakes. I agree that it is frustrating and difficult to learn from getting clubbed at every encounter. So you need some friends.... The attitude portrayed in your post will not help you make friends in this, or any COMBAT simulation/game.... Having friends will also give you a reason to log back in even after a bad night in the Main Arena, which we all have from time to time. Have you ever even asked anyone for help?
Finally, I've replied here hoping you're not some shameless troll. If you are, well, I'm sad for you.....
Yarbles,
huh?
While some of the responses to the OP are a little over the top due to the responders' frustration with the playing style Waldron holds up as the right thing to do while in fact it is, in the minds of probably every experienced flyer in the game, the absolute wrong tact to take if you want to learn and improve at all in the AH world. Your response to them is even further to the opposite extreme...
Oh, and without ego involved, how many people would actually spend 100 hours a month in a game like this? So yes, my ego needs a little stroke every now and then! I hate dying! But I Love the fight enough to make up for it!
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Yep.. Saying the better players want the newer or worse players to stay worse so they can get easy kills is not only completely false, it's as bad for the game to misinform the new players telling them that as spreading rumors about cheating is.
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Who is this waldron character?
The advice you have given would not be considered sound by most who play the game (myself included) steven. The general consensus is that flying better players makes you better. This has been shown over and over again.
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"The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?"
Since someone did open the tactics door I had almost this exact scenario this weekend, except I was in a Spit XVI with a Typhoon perched ~3K above me. We were the only ones in the area.
I turned my tail on him and stayed level until I saw him start to dive on me. I nosed down gradually, building speed and drawing him lower, the goal being to draw him off his perch and start to equalize E states. When he hit 1K out I reversed at near blackout. Moving faster, because he was gaining on me, there is no way he could turn tighter without going into a complete blackout.
When he didn't run, but stayed to fight I knew I was in for a good one. It was a good pilot (and a trainer). I won but I think he stalled trying to pull a vertical roll opposite tourqe and I sprayed him across the length of the fuelage from the side.
Yep, BaldEagl, was a fun fight and completely unorthodoxed for a Typhoon trying to mix it up like that with a spit, but I had to see if I could do it :aok :D
I did not want to BnZ you either, I tried to come down and make it a more equaled E fight for the most part without trying to let you have any alt advantage on me. I was impressed with the fight you put up, and the fact that you never extended away or dove away from me.....
:salute
had some other good fights after that as well for the most part :aok
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I was impressed with the fight you put up, and the fact that you never extended away or dove away from me.....
Now why would I want to do that? <S> TC.
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Just got done flying tonite and I had a blast. Just thinking about what was so much fun, and it was flying it right on the edge in the crowd, trying to get smaller, more nimble planes to overshoot my 38G, or turning with the Spits, N1Ks etc. I got shot up a lot, and the running joke for me tonite was how many ailerons I lost. But I'd have been bored stiff just sitting above the fight and waiting for only the best opportunity to shoot without any 'risk'. I killed a bit more then I died, and I died fairly often.
Why anyone would be hung up on avoiding the intensity of those kinds of fights is beyond me. Get in there and mix it up. No one dies, planes are free and the learning comes quick as you find out how far you can push yourself and your cartoon plane. Your gonna get picked, you'll end up shooting someone in the mix whose busy and you'll have those moments where you are sucked into the 'cockpit' and it's no longer a computer you are flying, but your imagination hard at work making it feel as real as we're ever going to get it in terms of WW2 air combat.
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Ok as the relative novice Iam going to summarise.
Vetran Advice
1) Read loads from books links etc
2)Get with the program in the TA and get a trainer
3) Get into the fight against the best,record it and learn from your mistakes.
4) I am sure there is more.
My recent Newb experience of the above and MY ADVICE TO NEWBS:
1) Do all of the above (but yes it can be boring and frustrating)
2) Learn situational awareness by getting above the fight and seeing what is going on.
3)Prolong your time in the air by getting altitude and diving in and breaking off so learning how to engage and dissingage.
4) Fly a plain that is good at everything to start with like a spit.
5) Until you learn to fly looking behind you try to remain in areas where your side has numerical supperiority.
6) Remember some of the people you come up against have much better equipment than you so dont be too hard on yourself.
Hopefully you will also learn while doing the above and not give up because the only kills you get are in Hoesand most of the time you just get shot down by someone who had all the advantages including height.
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Coming in here and posting....as a tip.... NOT to fight is counter productive. That is why this thread has stirred up so many comments. Once you learn that "the fight" is the reason to play this game you'll find it much more fun and less frustrating. You will also more likely get past any plateau and really start to excel in what ever area of fighting you like to play.
I thought he was saying choose your fights. Youve taken the trouble to get to a reasonable height so go for something you will enjoy and learn from :)
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Yep.. Saying the better players want the newer or worse players to stay worse so they can get easy kills is not only completely false, it's as bad for the game to misinform the new players telling them that as spreading rumors about cheating is.
Who said that :huh
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The problem with allot of the contributors on here is they have OBVIOUSLY forgotten what it is like to be at the other end of the food chain.
That is where you are wrong ... I believe most of us that have contributed actually did think about what it was like when we first started playing ... at least I did.
I got my arse handed to my constantly on a platter but I was determined to change the "constantly" to "occassionally" ... and my game plan was not running away from or avoiding fights ... just because I would die.
The more I died ... the better I got ... and eventually I didn't die as much.
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If you're a newbie. One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots. Check the Roster and score under fighter. The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1. If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name. You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em. Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there. Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage. Like a P-57
versus a Zero. You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector. You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys. They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's. So you might catch'em unaware. But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on. And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money. The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again. Just my opinion.
I agree with some of this but I dont think its worth putting energy into avoiding specific people. The time would be better spent leaning ACM which is something we can all agree on.
Learning to get height is a first step in my opinion after charging straight at everything head on. To Bounce someone you need to employ Lead and Lag and all that entails. If you want to continue the fight which inevitably you will want to you will need to learn to maintain an E advantage, which means fighting in the vertical as well as horrizontal as well as learning to turn in the most E efficient way. Additionally if your opponent then slows down you will have to slow down of course to avoid overshoot and eventually you will be fighting at the limit of stall. And so it goes on. By employing a staged approach and not leaping in at every opportunity without any consideration for your own survival I think a newb would learn more and have more fun.
I agree that in many ways you learn less from an experienced pilot in the sense that the fight is short, they employ allot of learned skill as well as knowledge, eg turn tighter etc as they can judge the limit of the same manouvre better, often will have better equipment eg great stick, excellent rudder pedals and are less likely to present you with a mistake that you can exploit as they are opperating within their limits. Quite frankly they are also allot less fun.
As I said A good pilot could probably reel a newb in if he doensnt have to show all his skill staragit away.
If you fly at lower alt with less E and get "clubbed" you learn what exactly?
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The more I died ... the better I got ... and eventually I didn't die as much.
This does not automatically follow . see above.
I have tried to explain above how someone might progress while maintaining some control over the action and learn basic skills in the process. Perhaps this approach from the experienced might be better than just ratling off the usual well worn cliches?
Perhaps someone could provide some more interesting advice than "Get a Trainer" "Record your Fights" "Atack everything irrespective" "Take time to learn ACM's"
Valid though these points are :aok
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That is where you are wrong ... I believe most of us that have contributed actually did think about what it was like when we first started playing ... at least I did.
Maybe but not as much as I have ;)
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Yarbles,
huh?
While some of the responses to the OP are a little over the top due to the responders' frustration with the playing style Waldron holds up as the right thing to do while in fact it is, in the minds of probably every experienced flyer in the game, the absolute wrong tact to take if you want to learn and improve at all in the AH world. Your response to them is even further to the opposite extreme...
Oh, and without ego involved, how many people would actually spend 100 hours a month in a game like this? So yes, my ego needs a little stroke every now and then! I hate dying! But I Love the fight enough to make up for it!
I think Waldron's points spark a latent prejudice against newb pilots as contributors seem to feel a collective frustration that new people tend to mob, not learn the skills while looking for shortcuts, stay out of range if they dont have all the advantages, go for Ho'es and glory seek when they have achieved very little.
Experienced people feel they are hunted as trophies especially when they are at a dissadvantage by those who dont appreciate their skills. I know I do it. If I saw an experienced pilot flying low and slow and smoking i would and have thouroughly enjoyed gunning them down :t It proves nothing but it feels great :devil
I say its only to be expected and stop picking on the newbs for getting sick of getting their arses kicked. I saw one guy on here who thought Waldron should be banned. Get a grip.
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Who is this waldron character?
The advice you have given would not be considered sound by most who play the game (myself included) steven. The general consensus is that flying better players makes you better. This has been shown over and over again.
my CFI's favorite sayng: ""you only achieve the level you train to.""
to put that into AH area......you only fight lower skilled pilots, you'll remain a lower skilled pilot yourself. fight top notch pilots, and you will eventually become one of those top notch pilots yourself.
<<S>>
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Perhaps someone could provide some more interesting advice than "Get a Trainer" "Record your Fights" "Atack everything irrespective" "Take time to learn ACM's"
In all honesty though, those are the best things to do to break out of "noob" status.
The last one, attack everyone irrespective, will in my opinion, get you the quickest results too.
I remember when i first started, flying in an area where there were only a few friendlies and enemies going at it. Bluekitty was one of the enemies, and pulled what i thought were totally impossible reversals over and over shooting my plane into a million pieces.
The first few times i wanted to take the throttle and stick and throw them against the wall i was so frustrated.
I cracked a beer, took a deep breathe, pressed record, and took off again, this time less concerned with how i was going to win but more just to watch what blue was actually doing. I still lost EVERY fight, but i gave a <S> and logged. The next day i watched the films, and tried to copy blues moves against other opponents.
You know how i learned what a barrel roll was? I was fighting biggles, spit vs spit, and just when i had the advantage and was ready to pull the trigger, he performed a perfect barrel roll, fell in behind me, and shot off my tail.
After that I googled "acm", and realized what that actually meant, and was able to watch guys pull off the moves i read about, and not be in total awe, but determined to learn them myself.
Best thing to do is to be patient and prepared to lose alot before you win alot.
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ill add my wothless two cents in
if you fly the way the original poster says to, then you will NEVER amount to crap in this game, i dont fly so much any more, but i have always flown to the biggest red dar possible,looking to find the best nme i could, at one point i upped from this base i saw an nme near he has alt and speed, so what i go after him anyway, well he shoots me down like 6 times in a row!!!! i was so friggen mad, but then i think well what ever, i put myself there. this was a year or more ago,
did i change my tactics? heck no!!!!!
so a few months ago i am doing my thing attacking a big dar, i am flying solo, i get engaged by at least three nme, i kill the first one, one runs away, the other tries to engage me in my better turning Hurri, he was flying very good but i still killed him!! guess who it was? the same stick that killed me 6 times in a row, i was ecstatic, well in the mean time i was jumped on by another, killed them, and here comes a hurri, i knew who it was, that same stick, i think you all will know him by "Lynx", well we fight in hurris, to be honest, i killed him again!!!!!!!! i was frigging screaming, seriously i was yelling out loud, i was so hyped up, my kids didn't know what to think ? LOL
now if i took the advise of poster that would have never happened, and that day was by far the greatest i ever had in AH!!!!!!!!!
the fight, thats what AH is about, not score,not being the "best", not running and coming back when the guy is engaged with someone else and picking him,
Not flying with 10 or 15 friendlies jumping on one guy,(LAME), its the fight and having a great time win or loose.
again just my worthless $02.
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I'll add 2 more cents.
If you don't know what a yo-yo, immelmann, hammerhead, barrel roll, split-s, spiral climb, defensive spiral, scissors, rolling scissors, lufbery and every other acm move you are not going to win against a better pilot other than on a lucky shot or a pick. There are no magic moves (although there may be an occasional game glitch). All acm are documented. It's up to you to learn what they are, when to use them, and how to manage them.
If you don't know how to judge and manage relative energy states you aren't going to win against a better pilot.
If you don't practice and become adept at situational awareness, you aren't going to win against a better pilot.
And finally, if you don't study these aspects and then put them to use in a fight (mostly by trial and error), you'll never master them.
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I think Waldron's points spark a latent prejudice against newb pilots as contributors seem to feel a collective frustration that new people tend to mob, not learn the skills while looking for shortcuts, stay out of range if they dont have all the advantages, go for Ho'es and glory seek when they have achieved very little.
Experienced people feel they are hunted as trophies especially when they are at a dissadvantage by those who dont appreciate their skills. I know I do it. If I saw an experienced pilot flying low and slow and smoking i would and have thouroughly enjoyed gunning them down :t It proves nothing but it feels great :devil
I say its only to be expected and stop picking on the newbs for getting sick of getting their arses kicked. I saw one guy on here who thought Waldron should be banned. Get a grip.
Rubbish.
There's no latent prejudice against noobs, there's no dread of being hunted, no one's picking on the noobs for getting sick of getting their arses kicked. Waldron should be banned and prolly will be, to see why you need only check out his post history; if the nonsense he's posted in this thread isn't clue enough.Who said that :huh
Waldron.
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Oh!! But it IS all about the score, being the best, running and coming back when the guy is engaged with someone else and picking him/her. That's all it's ever been about. And there is definitely a hierarchy here Unfortunately, for the majority to play this game, those despicable facts are true. There are a number of "honorable" players here as well.. To deny that is to ludicrous. But most talk smack (me included) and exploit every dishonorable advantage possible. Gang rapes, picks, hoes, running to ack.....All common place here.. Personally, I think they should make it where you it's dangerous for you to fly through your own ack. If we're going to be realistic and have it where "realistic" desperation tactics can be used, then the consequences should be just the same: fly through your own ack with one or several on your tail and take your chances.. Can't tell you how many times I've started to duel someone with respectable intentions on my part, and they begin to ho from the start (I can name 10 names off the top of my head) or one of their team-mates picks me after coming down from 10k and zooming at near the speed of light. I can just imagine hearing them on their squad or range vox "HEELP HELLLP! MY K/D RATIO!!".. I could care less about rank/score/k/d ratio. There are less honorable ways to manipulate that stuff and I'm just not a less-than-honorable guy.. But I am a hoot.. :devil I fight until there are no more enemies, out of ammo, or shot down(which is most of the time). Let's face it, being denied your kill because you get picked is disappointing to say the least. It's one thing to help out a team-mate, but it's something else entirely when you are clearly in a 1v1 or even 2v1 (you being the one) and you get picked by the guy you just don't see because you're concentrating on the one you're already dueling. Yeah, I know what you guys are gonna say about SA and all that, I get it.. But sometimes you're just so in the pipe that all you see is that dude you're desperately trying to gain a lead on so you can cut loose on 'em.. I have a rule that I follow. If I see a 1v1 whether in the MA or DA, I stay out of it unless I'm asked for help. And then, ONLY THEN do I come in to lend a hand, most of the time only shooting a warning burst to make the other guy honest.. But that's just me.. But to add to it, when some dirt-ball begins to gloat or you call him out and he makes some remark about your rank or k/d ratio, it's just that much more frustrating and those moments leave you wishing for a monitor that allows you to teleport your fist through it to connect with the other guys face. I hardly fly in the MA anymore, however I'm finding that now-a-days, the DA is becoming or has already become the same way.. The same old Temp-tards (yes most of them are tardlettes with the only tactics known being hoing, picking, ramming). Who the hell wants to learn anything when you can have superior performance where it matters most (down low) and think you accomplished something when you do drop from 10k on someone else's fight and take them out after spraying your whole ammo loadout and then landing that one kill. Wow, such an accomplishment! BRAVO!! :salute I know I'm sort of scattered in this post. But the points I want to make is that to the majority here, their rank has everything to do with it. I'm sorry, but I hardly believe any of you, especially those of you who know you're pretty good, are not concerned with your score.. It's natural. After all, I want a better k/d ratio. I eventually want to be known as someone who is pretty good. I look up to a few guys here. I try to record every encounter that I think may be them (based on plane and tactics).. I learn some things. Some things are harder to grasp. Some planes I truly want to be better at and it makes me stay away from others that are easier to get kills in. I stay away from flying perked planes for the most part and even I have the perks, I'd probably never fly them(just signed up again after being gone for awhile). I'd love to be one of those guys who can make a 38 do things people simply can't comprehend. I ending up investing some money into my set-up (Hotas and bigger monitor). I've got all the tools to make me better. Now comes the study part.. I watch all the videos I can find regarding ACM maneuvers and theory. I practice them (will someone freakin' show me how to do a defensive barrel role already?????) Ultimately, I believe it takes some amount of talent to play this game and patience to get better (of which I truly lack patience).
ill add my wothless two cents in
if you fly the way the original poster says to, then you will NEVER amount to crap in this game, i dont fly so much any more, but i have always flown to the biggest red dar possible,looking to find the best nme i could, at one point i upped from this base i saw an nme near he has alt and speed, so what i go after him anyway, well he shoots me down like 6 times in a row!!!! i was so friggen mad, but then i think well what ever, i put myself there. this was a year or more ago,
did i change my tactics? heck no!!!!!
so a few months ago i am doing my thing attacking a big dar, i am flying solo, i get engaged by at least three nme, i kill the first one, one runs away, the other tries to engage me in my better turning Hurri, he was flying very good but i still killed him!! guess who it was? the same stick that killed me 6 times in a row, i was ecstatic, well in the mean time i was jumped on by another, killed them, and here comes a hurri, i knew who it was, that same stick, i think you all will know him by "Lynx", well we fight in hurris, to be honest, i killed him again!!!!!!!! i was frigging screaming, seriously i was yelling out loud, i was so hyped up, my kids didn't know what to think ? LOL
now if i took the advise of poster that would have never happened, and that day was by far the greatest i ever had in AH!!!!!!!!!
the fight, thats what AH is about, not score,not being the "best", not running and coming back when the guy is engaged with someone else and picking him,
Not flying with 10 or 15 friendlies jumping on one guy,(LAME), its the fight and having a great time win or loose.
again just my worthless $02.
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"Paragraphs"
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I think Waldron's points spark a latent prejudice against newb pilots as contributors seem to feel a collective frustration that new people tend to mob, not learn the skills while looking for shortcuts, stay out of range if they dont have all the advantages, go for Ho'es and glory seek when they have achieved very little.
Experienced people feel they are hunted as trophies especially when they are at a dissadvantage by those who dont appreciate their skills. I know I do it. If I saw an experienced pilot flying low and slow and smoking i would and have thouroughly enjoyed gunning them down :t It proves nothing but it feels great :devil
I say its only to be expected and stop picking on the newbs for getting sick of getting their arses kicked. I saw one guy on here who thought Waldron should be banned. Get a grip.
I don't think there is a prejudice against newbs, but maybe against those who lay out blanket statements as a "tip" that isn't going to help anyone. Its not that Stephen is a newb that people object to what he post, but the statements that he posted.
Not being able to speak for anyone else, but I, as a more experienced player don't feel as tho I'm "hunted", nor would I consider myself at a disadvantage being low, slow and smoking. I would consider it a challenge to kill that guy diving in on me thinking he has an easy kill.
Newbs will ALWAYS get their arses kicked due to the game being so in depth, so well thought out, so well presented. The attraction draws them in faster than they can learn. It is the nature of the beast. Those who accept that they will not only die, but often, are those they will be the upped tier in a few months feeding off everyone else.
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Then you can have FUN playing with yourself.
You know, there are other ways to can have "fun" playing with yourself...
:noid
Say, I vote for a sticky, a lock, and a thread re-name to "How not to start a thread" or something similar
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"Paragraphs"
No doubt.
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I think you guys are being a bit harsh. I have actually taken this advice and put it to practical use in other areas of my life. For instance, I am a huge MMA fan, and have always thought it would be great to get to fight in the Octagon, but knowing my age, physical conditioning, and overall work ethic would be a factor in my failure I never dared to dream... Until now! I joined a gym that teaches ju-jitsu, kickboxing, judo etc. So last night I'm at the gym, there a few guys sparring and rolling around on the mats. I'm just kind of hanging out on the fringes, jumping a little rope, doing some stretches, basically waiting for my time to strike. Knowing I am no match for these young guys physically, I must use my intellectual advantage. Then I see it, one of the Behemoth's pulls the other to the ground. I think to myself "WWWD? (what would waldron do?)". The answer is obvious. Without hesitation I fling my 5lb. dumbells to the side and swoop in for a drive by headkicking! Or, as I like to think of it, a perfectly time B&Z. Victory is mine! The good news is, the doctor said I will make a full recovery and I was refunded all of my gym dues! I RULE!
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I think you guys are being a bit harsh. I have actually taken this advice and put it to practical use in other areas of my life. For instance, I am a huge MMA fan, and have always thought it would be great to get to fight in the Octagon, but knowing my age, physical conditioning, and overall work ethic would be a factor in my failure I never dared to dream... Until now! I joined a gym that teaches ju-jitsu, kickboxing, judo etc. So last night I'm at the gym, there a few guys sparring and rolling around on the mats. I'm just kind of hanging out on the fringes, jumping a little rope, doing some stretches, basically waiting for my time to strike. Knowing I am no match for these young guys physically, I must use my intellectual advantage. Then I see it, one of the Behemoth's pulls the other to the ground. I think to myself "WWWD? (what would waldron do?)". The answer is obvious. Without hesitation I fling my 5lb. dumbells to the side and swoop in for a drive by headkicking! Or, as I like to think of it, a perfectly time B&Z. Victory is mine! The good news is, the doctor said I will make a full recovery and I was refunded all of my gym dues! I RULE!
LMMFAO! ODBAL! Damn glad you're back! OMG! my tummy is hurting from laughing so HARD!
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
<S> Odbal
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I think you guys are being a bit harsh. I have actually taken this advice and put it to practical use in other areas of my life. For instance, I am a huge MMA fan, and have always thought it would be great to get to fight in the Octagon, but knowing my age, physical conditioning, and overall work ethic would be a factor in my failure I never dared to dream... Until now! I joined a gym that teaches ju-jitsu, kickboxing, judo etc. So last night I'm at the gym, there a few guys sparring and rolling around on the mats. I'm just kind of hanging out on the fringes, jumping a little rope, doing some stretches, basically waiting for my time to strike. Knowing I am no match for these young guys physically, I must use my intellectual advantage. Then I see it, one of the Behemoth's pulls the other to the ground. I think to myself "WWWD? (what would waldron do?)". The answer is obvious. Without hesitation I fling my 5lb. dumbells to the side and swoop in for a drive by headkicking! Or, as I like to think of it, a perfectly time B&Z. Victory is mine! The good news is, the doctor said I will make a full recovery and I was refunded all of my gym dues! I RULE!
Now THIS is a man with a sense of humor. Most excellent!!! :salute
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:rofl :rofl thats what I call a pick :rofl :rofl
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"Paragraphs"
Too right if he does it again he should be banned :salute
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If you fly at lower alt with less E and get "clubbed" you learn what exactly?
Dont think anyone has really answered this. Do honourable experienced pilots atack their newb enemies in this state or do they float down until they are co alt and e before beggining the "Duel" :D
What is the point of score if no one takes any notice of it? There seems to be some sort of concensus here that people shouldnt go after score, shouldnt enter into what are percieved to be unfair fights or seek advantages before the real fight starts and every fight should try to approximate to a "duel". I think this partially reflects a simple bias as in "when i win it was a fair fight when i lose it was a dishonourable cheat"
If you have a "Gentlemens" club going here where where you aspire to this collectively good for you. From the outside it can look like a heard of sheep queing up to agree with one another with very little (with a couple of acceptions) attempt to see an alternative viewpoint.
I would like to point out because someone has learnt something a certain way does not mean it was the only or best way and that different people learn in different ways. P
People say they want new people to learn but they dont seem interested in any ways that might make it easier. "The Dogmatic I did it this way, it was hard but I got through it and its the only way" approach to anything is usually over simplified or just wrong in any area of life.
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I think you guys are being a bit harsh. I have actually taken this advice and put it to practical use in other areas of my life. For instance, I am a huge MMA fan, and have always thought it would be great to get to fight in the Octagon, but knowing my age, physical conditioning, and overall work ethic would be a factor in my failure I never dared to dream... Until now! I joined a gym that teaches ju-jitsu, kickboxing, judo etc. So last night I'm at the gym, there a few guys sparring and rolling around on the mats. I'm just kind of hanging out on the fringes, jumping a little rope, doing some stretches, basically waiting for my time to strike. Knowing I am no match for these young guys physically, I must use my intellectual advantage. Then I see it, one of the Behemoth's pulls the other to the ground. I think to myself "WWWD? (what would waldron do?)". The answer is obvious. Without hesitation I fling my 5lb.
dumbells to the side and swoop in for a drive by headkicking! Or, as I like to think of it, a perfectly time B&Z. Victory is mine! The good news is, the doctor said I will make a full recovery and I was refunded all of my gym dues! I RULE!
I bet this is really funny if your 14 :aok
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"If you fly at lower alt with less E and get "clubbed" you learn what exactly?" Dont think anyone has really answered this.
SA, defensive acm, counter-attacks, sharpened gunnery/reduced hesitation.
Do honourable experienced pilots atack their newb enemies in this state or do they float down until they are co alt and e before beggining the "Duel"
Yep.. Anytime it's a 1:1 and there's good enough chances that it won't be interrupted. As far as "honourable" goes, that's pretty subjective and arguable. One guilty (if you can call it that much) pleasure I have is, rather than let the fight go on as long as it could, killing anyone who uses the cheap gears trick to airbrake.
f you have a "Gentlemens" club going here where where you aspire to this collectively good for you. From the outside it can look like a heard of sheep queing up to agree with one another with very little (with a couple of acceptions) attempt to see an alternative viewpoint.
You're kidding right? At least a few of us pass up almost every opportunity to pat others on the back, instead dissenting every chance they get..
I would like to point out because someone has learnt something a certain way does not mean it was the only or best way and that different people learn in different ways
As far as having fun, there's no arguing it, not unless you get down to the exact psychological mechanics of it. As far as dogfighting goes, there's some pretty clear and well defined rules to it, e.g. you won't learn it best by avoiding any chance to get knee deep into it.People say they want new people to learn but they dont seem interested in any ways that might make it easier. "The Dogmatic I did it this way, it was hard but I got through it and its the only way" approach to anything is usually over simplified or just wrong in any area of life.
That same nonsense again. The only way to test a theory, is to put it in practice. Running away from fights, or "BnZing" without reverses unless the target is at zero or negative speed are a very poor excuse for trial by fire/practical confirmation. The same way you don't actualy learn a martial art unless you've practiced it "full load". What military force sends its soldiers to action with only theoretical training?
You could argue that it's a valid way to have fun, but that's beside the point, and it's certainly not the advice to give to any and all new players to this air combat game. Especialy not together with the rest of Waldron's "advice".
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[quote author=moot link=topic=237571. Running away from fights, or "BnZing" without reverses unless the target is at zero or negative speed are a very poor excuse for trial by fire/practical confirmation. The same way you don't actualy learn a martial art unless you've practiced it "full load". What military force sends its soldiers to action with only theoretical training?
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Forget Waldron for a minute here. Its not all or nothing i.e. avoid all fights unlesss you are sure of winning and bnz once and run in all cases. I think ive made that point already. Again though if you bnz it works best if you are close in speed if you are charging in at 400mph+ and there at say 200mph htesr hard to set up and you need excellent markmanship.
These debates are most valid when people dont take extreme positions. What is appartent is that there is a scism between books like "in pursuit" and the "party line" in this forum. Allot of Waldron said matches what I have read and relates to my own experiences. My k/d went form a low of 1/25 to a high earlier this week of 1/1. It improved when i started haveing meaningfull battles which I understood. If I start with the advantage and see how someone reverses I learn if they dont I kill them. The fight can end at high and low alt etc and its working for me so it might work for others. It works best at this stage where I start on equal term but ideally with the advantage.
Today i fought someone at co alt with co e who is ranked 75 and I am about 1700. He dove away after a couple of turns and I chased him down and stayed on his 6 and got him. What I learned I learned from bnz holding on in pursuit longer and longer and that has turned into kills. Its been fun. I dont have to keep upping and getting shot down over and over and over again to get better. I admit I have very few defensive moves against similar planes at this stage but that will develop as well.
I dont understand what the problem is with this approach it is working and I am learning and I am picking :D
I may not always do it that way but the response to Waldron sounds very narrow minded.
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Look, just play the game the way you want and have fun. Fight, run, BnZ, Ho, milk and toolshed. The game is what you make of it. Some just want a little bit more out of it then others.
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Look, just play the game the way you want and have fun. Fight, run, BnZ, Ho, milk and toolshed. The game is what you make of it. Some just want a little bit more out of it then others.
Lol if I post that as advice on this forumn :uhoh :uhoh :uhoh.
BTW I am trying to get more out of the game for more people. I think if I had followed the just keep upping and dying advice given here I would have given up a long time ago. I am not saying its not good advice but it doesnt appeal to everyone and Ive come along way doing it by picking and bnzing as well as reading and getting a trainer and hopefully others can do the same though if you do dont mention it on here or :uhoh :mad: :uhoh :mad:
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Look, just play the game the way you want and have fun. Fight, run, BnZ, Ho, milk and toolshed. The game is what you make of it. Some just want a little bit more out of it then others.
Nah, that makes too much sense.
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I bet this is really funny if your 14 :aok
It wasn't meant to be funny, it's a true story.
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Forget Waldron for a minute here. Its not all or nothing i.e. avoid all fights unlesss you are sure of winning and bnz once and run in all cases. I think ive made that point already. Again though if you bnz it works best if you are close in speed if you are charging in at 400mph+ and there at say 200mph htesr hard to set up and you need excellent markmanship.
These debates are most valid when people dont take extreme positions. What is appartent is that there is a scism between books like "in pursuit" and the "party line" in this forum. Allot of Waldron said matches what I have read and relates to my own experiences. My k/d went form a low of 1/25 to a high earlier this week of 1/1. It improved when i started haveing meaningfull battles which I understood. If I start with the advantage and see how someone reverses I learn if they dont I kill them. The fight can end at high and low alt etc and its working for me so it might work for others. It works best at this stage where I start on equal term but ideally with the advantage.
Today i fought someone at co alt with co e who is ranked 75 and I am about 1700. He dove away after a couple of turns and I chased him down and stayed on his 6 and got him. What I learned I learned from bnz holding on in pursuit longer and longer and that has turned into kills. Its been fun. I dont have to keep upping and getting shot down over and over and over again to get better. I admit I have very few defensive moves against similar planes at this stage but that will develop as well.
I dont understand what the problem is with this approach it is working and I am learning and I am picking :D
I may not always do it that way but the response to Waldron sounds very narrow minded.
I think the point that most of us are trying to make, is while you are in the learning/beginning stages of playing this game, score is the last thing you should worry about and most of all don't worry about dying ... it is an integral part of learning.
Yeah it sucks to die, but those of us that are voicing displeasure over Waldron's advise for newcomers are only speaking from longevity and experience. Avoiding fights ... fleeing when you loose the advantage ... will do nothing for learning the techniques needed to survive when one can't flee or avoid a fight.
BnZ is a valid tactic, but when in that mode, and you make a mistake, wouldn't it be nice to be able to wrangle yourself out of the pickle rather than fly straight and level ... stick stir hoping that you won't get nailed.
I'll tell you about one guy that has been around for some time now and flys the P51 pretty much exclusively. He can BnZ and pick your bones clean before you even know what hit you, but if you manage to get him cornered in his Mustang ... you might as well have cornered a Badger. You will think that he magically transformed that Mustang into a Spitfire ... and if you make one mistake, he will send you to your virtual maker in a hearbeat.
That is the sign of a guy that has taken his Mustang into numerous situations that weren't only to his advantage and didn't run in fear of dying. He pushes the Mustang to every bleeding edge of the Mustang's envelope ... there is only one way to know those bleeding edges ... and it's not from avoiding fights and being afraid to die, or worrying about score.
His in-game name is ... SkatSr ... find him and watch him fight that Mustang or find him and fight him ... you will be amazed.
Here is his score from last months tour ...
Kills per Death - 5.46
Kills per Sortie - 3.05
Kills per Hour of Flight - 9.11
Kills Hit Percentage - 11.54
His fighter rank was 14.
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Today i fought someone at co alt with co e who is ranked 75 and I am about 1700. He dove away after a couple of turns and I chased him down and stayed on his 6 and got him. What I learned I learned from bnz holding on in pursuit longer and longer and that has turned into kills. Its been fun. I dont have to keep upping and getting shot down over and over and over again to get better. I admit I have very few defensive moves against similar planes at this stage but that will develop as well.
What you should learn about this fight is the guy blew his advantage so he dove out. As you started closing, he had no option because he was afraid of dieing to try something. It also shows you that he is most likely a BnZer type fighter, and its all he does. He got his 75 ranking by cherry pickin his target, or only attacking with an advantage, and then runs when he looses that advantage. If thats the only way you learn to fly, then people like you would have the patience for the long chase will kill them.
On the other hand had he dove out, and got you real fast, and chopped his throttle a bit to drag you in closer, then just as the drool is running down your chin antisapating the kill, he chops the throttle all the way rudders hard and throws the plane into a tight barrel roll. You just about to go to guns see him slide off to the side as you go flying by, and by the time you find him in a view again, tracers are all over the place and your loosing parts of your plane.
Learn a few tricks by "trying" a few tricks. You might have more fun !
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Forget Waldron for a minute here. Its not all or nothing i.e. avoid all fights unlesss you are sure of winning and bnz once and run in all cases. I think ive made that point already.
I can't recall where you said anything but paraphrase and insistently defend Waldron as some imaginary scapegoat here. Again though if you bnz it works best if you are close in speed if you are charging in at 400mph+ and there at say 200mph htesr hard to set up and you need excellent markmanship.
That depends on the planes and the exact circumstances. There's no single minimalistic fits-all rule of thumb you can tell beginning players and expect them to synthesize everything else from on their own, without a ton of trial and error. Except that practice makes perfect. Perfect timid flying is still timid flying.
These debates are most valid when people dont take extreme positions.
Waldron ought to start by understanding that.What is appartent is that there is a scism between books like "in pursuit" and the "party line" in this forum. Allot of Waldron said matches what I have read and relates to my own experiences.
Read in WWII books and experienced in a game? The argument isn't about whether you die or not, it's about the fight that happens before that. You can RTB or not, or fly fast or slow, or high or low, but that's not the point.My k/d went form a low of 1/25 to a high earlier this week of 1/1.
Says nothing about the quality of the fights.It improved when i started haveing meaningfull battles which I understood. If I start with the advantage and see how someone reverses I learn if they dont I kill them. The fight can end at high and low alt etc and its working for me so it might work for others. It works best at this stage where I start on equal term but ideally with the advantage.
Doesn't say anything about the quality of the fight, nor how timidly you fight, tho it does sound like you got some kick out of it.
Today i fought someone at co alt with co e who is ranked 75 and I am about 1700.
Rank is meaningless here.He dove away after a couple of turns and I chased him down and stayed on his 6 and got him. What I learned I learned from bnz holding on in pursuit longer and longer and that has turned into kills. Its been fun.
Fun, yes, but it says nothing about the quality of the dogfighting, of the ACM and tactics and how well they were executed. I dont have to keep upping and getting shot down over and over and over again to get better.
Strawman, and wrong even so. Higher frequency of any iteration will yield correct adaptation sooner. I admit I have very few defensive moves against similar planes at this stage but that will develop as well.
By shying away from the fight that provides the improvement? That's the tendency we're talking about here. It's not about flying any particular variant or 'style', it's about flying that style effectively. If you need to fly timidly, the "style" is wrong or at least very ineffective and makes for a dull fight --> no fun.
Teach this to new players and you've peed in the pool.
I dont understand what the problem is with this approach it is working and I am learning and I am picking :D
See above. It's cheap.
I may not always do it that way but the response to Waldron sounds very narrow minded.
Because Waldron's "advice" is even more narrow: encompasses a tiny fraction of the possibilities in the game, does it incorrectly, and tries to mislead new players into believing it's right.
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Moot, Slapshot and Fugitive.
I have to relate what is being said to my own experiences and my motivations in the game particularly motivation. Score is a tangible (but questionable) measure of progress.
My experience is you do have to learn skills to improve your score but what you say is intrigeing and I thankyou for having the patience and taking the trouble to expand on what are obviously shared values in the game.
So.
I think to want to take the trouble to get where you think you are you have to have a pretty clear idea of where you are going. This seems to be a highly skilled pilot who has mastered ACMs, Situational awareness and their particular ride. I am not sure how this relates to what is going on around us in the game which is a 3 way battle between the countries as well as a shifting furball arena. I guess you are looking for situations where you can excel and stretch yourselves while hopefully learning more.
I want to serve my squad and country as they are my affinity groups in the game. I want to be able to hunt people down and kill them (virtually of course) for the thrill and to massage my ego.
I am happy with my progress and how I got here and dont feel as though I have wasted any time. The main point I take form all of this is the timid style I have developed probably relates to my lack of confidence in my defensive abilities as I dont think I can mix it and reverse with someone who knows what they are doing. I think this necessitates learning the moves and then how to apply them. I dont think this naturally (for me anyway) follows from throwing yourself at everything that comes along. In a nutshell more training leading to more skills to apply when things look like they are not going my way.
I dont see any essential contradiction with this and Waldronism. Ok he is not giving what for you is the big picture, but you are assuming with a passion that sometimes seems to border on the ranting obsession that everyone wants the same thing out of the game.
I would like to be No1 Fighter Pilot for a tour. I spoke to Bruv about it and he explained that allot of this is some distance from the quality experience some of you are seeking but it is a measureble goal and once achived for me it gives a certain credability.
You have reached a point where you are defining your own standards but for many this is going to seem a tad nebulous and I wonder if you new exactly what you were after when you started or can even remember ;)
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You have reached a point where you are defining your own standards but for many this is going to seem a tad nebulous and I wonder if you new exactly what you were after when you started or can even remember ;)
When I first started in Aces High (back in the AH I days), I joined a squad called the MAW (Marine Air Wing). At that time, it was one of the premiere base taking squads. I was the CO of the MAW 3rd Wing and as part of the whole, we were very good at what we did ... taking down a base and all it's non-moving objects ... but when challenged, air to air, I was constantly getting my arse handed to me.
I got tired of that and sought out a "fighter" squadron and was lucky enough to be given a spot with the 13th TAS. Their montra was "it's all about the fight" and from flying with these guys and the squads that the bumped heads with, I learned a great deal about air to air combat ... mind you, I died alot, but I kept coming back for more and eventually, from in squad dueling, fighting in furballs, watching countless films from some of the "best", I turned it around and getting my arse handed to me constantly ... became less constant.
One of the squads that the 13th TAS loved to bump heads with were the Blue Knights. One of the guys in the Blue Knights that I constantly went after was Leviathn (arguably one of the best pilots in all of Aces High). He consistently kicked my arse (and still does), but it was those constant arse kickings and watching the films after the arse kickings was the most valuable resource ... for me ... to improve my Air to Air fighting skills.
Eventually, the old-guard of the 13th TAS kinda faded into obscurity due to the change in gameplay for AH II ... so I sought out a position with the Blue Knights and was lucky enough to get a spot.
I am far from "one of the best" ... but if you do run into me, and really want to fight, you will know you have been in a fight, and will have to be on your "A" game to win the fight.
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Best way to learn is to get in there and mix it up. until we all fly the same plane, the same way, at the same alt, with the same goal etc, rank will mean nothing, other then an artificual measuring stick for folks who think it matters.
There is nothing better in the game, in my opinion, then having been in a joystick bending, dogfight where you've used everything you've learned, and tried a few more things out of desperation, trying to survive. Many times you'll lose those fights early on, but then you hit a point where it changes, and things that didn't work, start working and you come out the other end of one of those fights, wondering how you did it, but knowing that you can compete with the better sticks in the game.
You also find yourself, not worrying about having all the advantages because it's more about pushing it as far as you can, and challenging yourself to win from a disadvantage.
It always cracks me up to see one of the great sticks up into a mess and clean house. Even funnier is when the word gets around and the baduns quit coming down, or only come down with 3-4 to 1 advantage. Even then it doesn't always help.
I watched a pretty good stick in a 109 last night, fight from a low alt disadvantage against 4 C Hogs with alt and E. He got three of them, I got the other. They were so panicked by what he was doing in that 109 that the one guy didn't see me sneak up from his low 6 and blast him.
One of the things I know about that 109 stick is that he looks for a fight, and doesn't ever avoid them. He knows that we're not really dying, and that fighting is the point. He's gotten that good by taking the challenge and not by flying safe or worrying about his 'score'.
In the end it's all about having fun whichever way you fly.