Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on July 03, 2008, 08:18:51 AM
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http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/MarxistsSocialistsCommunistsforObama
Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama
This group is for self-proclaimed Marxists/Communists/Socialists for the election of Barack Obama to the Presidency. By no means is he a true Marxist, but under Karl Marx's writings we are to support the party with the best interests of the mobilization of the proletariat. Though the Democratic Socialists of America or the Communist Patty of America may have more Socialististic values, it is pointless to vote for these candidates due to the fact that there is virutally no chance they will be elected on a National level. The members of this group are not Leninists, Stalinists, etc. and do not support or condone the actions of North Korea, China, Cuba or any other self-procalimed "Marxist States." They do not in anyway represent the Marxist philosophy nor do they represent Socialism/ Communsim. We support Barack Obama because he knows what is best for the people!
I was in tears from laughter due to irony. Slowly but surely, red is creeping from the west to the east of America...containment and domino theory never visions that end will come from within.
(http://www.commieobama.com/Images/Product_Pics/HatSmall.jpg)
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This isn't anything new. Never been to Berkley? Communist groups have been supporting the Democrat party longer than I've been alive. There's a batch of useful idiots in every generation.
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there is a pendulum effect.. the fact that communism and strict socialism simply do not work is always the fuel for the pendulum swinging the other way..
soooo.. a bunch of commies in basements all plotting and working away are just foolish tools who really can't do anything but make tiny little changes and ride the pendulum.. when it swings their way they feel all jubilant and justified.. when not.. they drown their sorrows in their vodka and become bitter.
lazs
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there is a pendulum effect.. the fact that communism and strict socialism simply do not work is always the fuel for the pendulum swinging the other way..
soooo.. a bunch of commies in basements all plotting and working away are just foolish tools who really can't do anything but make tiny little changes and ride the pendulum.. when it swings their way they feel all jubilant and justified.. when not.. they drown their sorrows in their vodka and become bitter.
lazs
I take exception to that Lazs2. I like vodka, and yet, am a staunch capitalist/supporter of small government/disliker of wasteful social programs or useless regulations and prohibitions.
You should like vodka too. Not only is it the most versatile of liquors, but it's got utility outside of recreational consumption.
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Time to play the picture game. :aok
Now if I were at a protest in Cali... what groups should I expect to see... ? Well here we go...
ANSWER, which iirc, are Marxists.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/ANSWER.jpg)
Party for Socialism and Liberation
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/PartyForSocialismandLiberation.jpg)
Revolution Youth
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/Revolution%20Youth.jpg)
World Can't Wait, hardcore Maoists. There's no way these people have jobs, since they seem to be at every protest that's held. You can easily identify them by either orange bandanas, or "guantanamo orange" jumpsuits. I have seen precisesly one of them, ever, that looked like he was over 25 years old.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/WorldCantWait.jpg)
Note, the police aren't detaining them in any form. It's street theater. I have no idea what point they think they're making.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/maoists.jpg)
Ahh, the guy I mentioned 2 photos back. He's a World Can't Wait organizer. I find his obsession with recruiting and hanging out with young, easily manipulated children disturbing.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/ringleader.jpg)
More easily led children.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/usefulidiots.jpg)
Ahh but we're not done yet, the Revolutionary Communist Party has a booth too.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/revolutionary%20communist%20party.jpg)
Appearently they setup next to all 2 members of the Socialist Action Network.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/socialistactionnetwork.jpg)
This guy I don't think has a day job. There's inevitably a picture of him at virtually every protest. He hates jews, literally.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/thatguythatalwaysshowsup.jpg)
International Bolshevik Tendency, for the college crowd that never quite grew up.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/IMG_9687.jpg)
and my favorite... because all good Communist groups take Visa.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/goodcommiestakevisa.jpg)
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just another arse backwards group who support the bro
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Hilarious pictures Indy.
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Hilarious pictures Indy.
I wish they were mine. Those belong to www.zombietime.com (http://www.zombietime.com). You don't get many good protests here in Houston. :( Last one worth mentioning was Joe Horn's neighborhood, and that, imho, wasn't really political. Political protests attract a way more entertaining crowd.
There's also some good stuff at:
http://www.protestshooter.com/ (http://www.protestshooter.com/)
http://urbaninfidel.blogspot.com/ (http://urbaninfidel.blogspot.com/)
http://www.ringospictures.com/ (http://www.ringospictures.com/)
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These people have the right to believe anything they want, just as you have hardcore right wingers, you have hardcore left wingers, no shock there. If people didn't protest this corrupt government, then I would be worried. As a democrat, republican or neither, you have to realize our government has gotten very bloated and corrupt.
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Which is why it is insanity to vote either Republican or Democrat.
You want change? Throw ALL the bastiges out and start over clean with different clowns.
The Libertarian or Constitutional parties will welcome you.
(Of course, we'll have to throw those bastiges out later on...)
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These people have the right to believe anything they want, just as you have hardcore right wingers, you have hardcore left wingers, no shock there. If people didn't protest this corrupt government, then I would be worried. As a democrat, republican or neither, you have to realize our government has gotten very bloated and corrupt.
Which may be true. However we are laughing at these people that think ULTIMATE CORRUPTION AND MURDEROUS EMPIRES are the solution to mere casual government corruption.
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"Which may be true. However we are laughing at these people that think ULTIMATE CORRUPTION AND MURDEROUS EMPIRES are the solution to mere casual government corruption."
What in the world are you talking about. These people are standing up for there rights and holding the government accountable for there actions.
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Totalitarian govt accountable for its actions, and people's "rights" under it?
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"Totalitarian govt accountable for its actions, and people's "rights" under it?"
Of course not, your point?
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"Totalitarian govt accountable for its actions, and people's "rights" under it?"
Of course not, your point?
Protesting for change within an existing government, and protesting for a totally different type of government that happens to have a horrible track record are 2 different things. It's not hard to see.
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I see a lot of anti war protest in those pictures, I don't think I see a single person asking that the US becomes the USSR. I guess I would have to draw a broad generalization to do that.
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you need to examine the photos closer ...
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I see a lot of anti war protest in those pictures, I don't think I see a single person asking that the US becomes the USSR. I guess I would have to draw a broad generalization to do that.
So you can't protest the war without promoting one of the most blood-stained political ideologies in history?
Mojava... please don't tell us you're one of those useful idiots with an orange bandana.
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Oh my straw-man fallacy! :eek:
Look, the orange-bandana idiots explicitly stated that they do not support any of the existing communist states, and I think that would imply they don't support the former USSR. That's the best way to interpret them and therefore it's the starting point for arguing against them in a meaningful way. What they have in mind is some sort of cheery, anarchistic utopia where everyone makes the same amount of money regardless of education or occupation, where no one can get ahead of others, etc.
The rest of you are totally wrong about how they get it wrong. Arguing that they want a totalitarian state is pathetic and weak and shows a misunderstanding of why these people are dangerous. What is true is that any ideology that would have man place the interests of the collective above his own is wicked and undermines what is best in humanity.
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Oh my straw-man fallacy! :eek:
Look, the orange-bandana idiots explicitly stated that they do not support any of the existing communist states, and I think that would imply they don't support the former USSR. That's the best way to interpret them and therefore it's the starting point for arguing against them in a meaningful way. What they have in mind is some sort of cheery, anarchistic utopia where everyone makes the same amount of money regardless of education or occupation, where no one can get ahead of others, etc.
The rest of you are totally wrong about how they get it wrong. Arguing that they want a totalitarian state is pathetic and weak and shows a misunderstanding of why these people are dangerous. What is true is that any ideology that would have man place the interests of the collective above his own is wicked and undermines what is best in humanity.
Fool. Your placating of them allows them to think they are right. They are not, in ANY way.
Socialism and Communism can never even begin to be confused with Anarchy. It can ***ONLY*** be achieved through a totalitarian state.
What is best in humanity? Every single time throughout all of history, when the interests of the collective are placed above the interests of the indvidual we have seen the WORST of humanity.
The definition (or so is popularly said) of insanity is repeating the same task over and over but expecting different results each time.
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Fool. Your placating of them allows them to think they are right. They are not, in ANY way.
Socialism and Communism can never even begin to be confused with Anarchy. It can ***ONLY*** be achieved through a totalitarian state.
What is best in humanity? Every single time throughout all of history, when the interests of the collective are placed above the interests of the indvidual we have seen the WORST of humanity.
The definition (or so is popularly said) of insanity is repeating the same task over and over but expecting different results each time.
Yes, I think we agree here, mostly. But they are right about one thing: they know their own intentions. You guys seem to be saying that they can't intend peace and happiness through a political/economic system that we know is bad, but they can intend that very easily because they have a connected set of beliefs that are false or misguided. What they intend is up to them, and they are incorrigible about that by definition.
Secondly, leave experience aside and suppose that the socialists' dream state could be achieved without a totalitarian state. Who would want it? I wouldn't. To me, their dream state is a miasma of self-immolation that only exists in the darkest corners of hell. :devil
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Oh my straw-man fallacy! :eek:
Look, the orange-bandana idiots explicitly stated that they do not support any of the existing communist states, and I think that would imply they don't support the former USSR. That's the best way to interpret them and therefore it's the starting point for arguing against them in a meaningful way. What they have in mind is some sort of cheery, anarchistic utopia where everyone makes the same amount of money regardless of education or occupation, where no one can get ahead of others, etc.
Yes & no. W.C.W. founders were largely from the Revolutionary Communist Party. The RCP states that U.S. Imperialism will never peacefully change and that the only way for people to liberate themselves is through communist revolution. It should be pretty obvious W.C.W. is a facade to present a less blemished front while pushing the same agenda and recruit more useful idiots.
Now you mentioned a bit of anarchy. A part of this that's comedy gold is the Communists and Anarchists hate each other, even though they "protest" in the same marches... then procede to flame and troll each other on their internet forums. It got especially nasty after the Anarchists scheduled their book fair on the same day as an ANSWER protest. In case you're wondering, the Anarchists believe the Communists are disarmed idiots with no idea how to start a real revolution. The Communists believe the Anarchists are hypocrits for using all the trapping of organized, modern society while dressing in black to throw the occasional molotov cocktail and never actually doing anything.
unfortunately many, many of the best pictures are definately NSFW and wouldn't last 10 seconds before Skuzzy took a paddle to me. :(
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Well, that's some good analysis. When I said "anarchistic" I didn't mean people who call themselves anarchists, however, but just that these people do not want a totalitarian state.
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anarchists and commies have always hated each other and for good reason.. they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.. nothing a commie hates more than not being able to control everyones every thought and action.
socialists are just commie lights.
lazs
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Here's a good read for you folks that I think you'll enjoy http://www.romm.org/soc_com.html (http://www.romm.org/soc_com.html).
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You know, liberal activists have one really, really, really great thing going for them: they're willing to work!
Just think of all that effort. It's such a shame that all that great effort & long hours are spent on total dimwit efforts.
Were they putting that same effort toward anything worthwhile... they really could make a huge difference!
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anarchists and commies have always hated each other and for good reason.. they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.. nothing a commie hates more than not being able to control everyones every thought and action.
socialists are just commie lights.
lazs
You old marazmatic fool
Every Democratic society have failed so far.Your economic boost was gained by capitalizing on ww2 land lease program.USA was nothing before ww2.Your 4th of July would not Even exist without France that you despite so much.Tell me please,why are you better than everyone else?What gives right to tell everyone whats right or wrong?
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Tell me please,why are you better than everyone else?What gives right to tell everyone whats right or wrong?
Cuz we're Americans. It's what we do. If anyone doesn't like it, they can get off this AMERICAN website.
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You old marazmatic fool
Every Democratic society have failed so far.Your economic boost was gained by capitalizing on ww2 land lease program.USA was nothing before ww2.Your 4th of July would not Even exist without France that you despite so much.Tell me please,why are you better than everyone else?What gives right to tell everyone whats right or wrong?
Actually, it wouldn't exist without Prussia. It was the Baron Von Steuben who told us how to win the war. France was only the boatride over.
You know, liberal activists have one really, really, really great thing going for them: they're willing to work!
Just think of all that effort. It's such a shame that all that great effort & long hours are spent on total dimwit efforts.
Were they putting that same effort toward anything worthwhile... they really could make a huge difference!
Actually, I'd say very few of them do any (productive) work. They are however, really good at stealing other people's money and spending it for them.
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You old marazmatic fool
Every Democratic society have failed so far.Your economic boost was gained by capitalizing on ww2 land lease program.USA was nothing before ww2.Your 4th of July would not Even exist without France that you despite so much.Tell me please,why are you better than everyone else?What gives right to tell everyone whats right or wrong?
"Democracy" is only a tool to fool the masses, and to make them feel responsible for the actions of their regime. Nothing more then propaganda bla-bla to make every useless fool feel like he decides something.
What's so bad about totalitarian state? At least it's more transparent then so-called "democracy" and much, much more effective in achieving it's goals. And the goals are usually not just the prosperity for a bunch of crooks.
Can anyone please tell me the goals of American society? What is it all for?
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What's so bad about totalitarian state? At least it's more transparent then so-called "democracy" and much, much more effective in achieving it's goals. And the goals are usually not just the prosperity for a bunch of crooks.
What's so bad about a totalitaria... Lets see... Mao, Hitler and your buddy Uncle Joe... three famous totalitarians.
I can give you maybe 90 million examples of what they did wrong.
Power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutley.
Can anyone please tell me the goals of American society? What is it all for?
We wrote it down 232 years ago today.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Amen :salute
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What's so bad about a totalitaria... Lets see... Mao, Hitler and your buddy Uncle Joe... three famous totalitarians.
I can give you maybe 90 million examples of what they did wrong.
Power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutley.
I can give you much more examples of why _your_ system is wrong. Don't even bother comparing numbers, you guys always win.
We wrote it down 232 years ago today.
Nice day to ask such questions :) Congratulations!
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." - it's nothing but meaningless words, as anything that general.
As I see it now you guys try to take worst things from totaliatarian state and combine it with worst features of so-called "democracy" in it's Western meaning. Less and less transparent system with corrupt goals.
Just to compare: in USSR people had much more opportunities to control government and change something then you guys have now. "Private property", "free market" and "capitalism" are senseless idols that you blindly worship. GM buying and closing public transportation companies back in 1920s, now corporations closing their factories, making thousands unemployed just to make a bunch of crooks 0.01% richer...
Unfortunately now we got the same crap here, even worse, with our right-wing "liberals" that seriously said that 90% of Russian population is not "suitable for free-market economy".
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Communism sucks. It's not just some unfortunate outcome of human nature like wasting opportunities in a free market (e.g. american trend of growing a fat arse rather than producing something useful), it's the intentional totalitarian stifling of people. Bollocks to that.
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As I see it now you guys try to take worst things from totaliatarian state and combine it with worst features of so-called "democracy" in it's Western meaning. Less and less transparent system with corrupt goals.
Why do despots first have to get rid of the opposition to achieve totalitarian goals?
Let's look at the economic equality of Zimbabwe for example. You think that anybody in that country has more economic power than Mugabe?
Get real.
As far as murder of their own, totalitarians are the grand champions. Constitutional democracies, ones that allow opposition that is, aren't even in the minor leagues.
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Time to play the picture game. :aok
Now if I were at a protest in Cali... what groups should I expect to see... ? Well here we go...
This guy I don't think has a day job. There's inevitably a picture of him at virtually every protest. He hates jews, literally.
(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/thatguythatalwaysshowsup.jpg)
This fellow is either Ralph Nader or his clone... :lol
Joker
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(http://www.trdparts.com/AH/asdf/commies/Revolution%20Youth.jpg) Typical, buncha rich, white kids from the burbs decrying the inequities of the 'system', while complaining to mommy and daddy that their car is now 3 years old and they can't get chicks anymore.... :lol
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"Which may be true. However we are laughing at these people that think ULTIMATE CORRUPTION AND MURDEROUS EMPIRES are the solution to mere casual government corruption."
What in the world are you talking about. These people are standing up for there rights and holding the government accountable for there actions.
Such the 'Catch-22': If these dipsticks HAD the kind of government they wanted, they'd be arrested and tortured for protesting against it :huh
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Why do despots first have to get rid of the opposition to achieve totalitarian goals?
Let's look at the economic equality of Zimbabwe for example. You think that anybody in that country has more economic power than Mugabe?
Get real.
Mugabe got "democratically elected", wasn't he?
Zimbabwe/South Rhodesia is a good example of where "democracy" can lead. Under totalitarian rule such people get isolated.
As far as murder of their own, totalitarians are the grand champions. Constitutional democracies, ones that allow opposition that is, aren't even in the minor leagues.
Your problem is that you don't consider your victims "human".
Again, Hitler got democratically elected, and nazism is a pure evil regardless to basic political system. Soviet "totalitarianism" killed much less people then US of A did at the same period of time.
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Mugabe got "democratically elected", wasn't he?
Having an election doesn't mean it's a democracy.
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I can give you much more examples of why _your_ system is wrong. Don't even bother comparing numbers, you guys always win.
Nice day to ask such questions :) Congratulations!
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." - it's nothing but meaningless words, as anything that general.
As I see it now you guys try to take worst things from totaliatarian state and combine it with worst features of so-called "democracy" in it's Western meaning. Less and less transparent system with corrupt goals.
Just to compare: in USSR people had much more opportunities to control government and change something then you guys have now. "Private property", "free market" and "capitalism" are senseless idols that you blindly worship. GM buying and closing public transportation companies back in 1920s, now corporations closing their factories, making thousands unemployed just to make a bunch of crooks 0.01% richer...
Unfortunately now we got the same crap here, even worse, with our right-wing "liberals" that seriously said that 90% of Russian population is not "suitable for free-market economy".
So you're telling us that Communism is better than Democracy? :huh :huh
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Having an election doesn't mean it's a democracy.
So what's your criteria? Democracy = power of democrats?
You probably don't get me, Mugabe really got elected by the majority, he was whet they really wanted.
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So what's your criteria? Democracy = power of democrats?
You probably don't get me, Mugabe really got elected by the majority, he was whet they really wanted.
Democracy:
Demo-People
Cratin-rule
(IIRC)
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So what's your criteria? Democracy = power of democrats?
You probably don't get me, Mugabe really got elected by the majority, he was whet they really wanted.
Well....one criteria might be NOT beating and hacking to death those who support the opposition
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I am not for democracy.. I am for a representitive republic with very limited government.
The "goal" should be individual freedom and individual rights. Communism is a soul and spirit killer. I do not care about it's goals. The expression "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" describes modern communism to me.
"leave me alone" is not an option.
communism is immoral.. any government that takes from one person to give to another... by force..(and that is what government is, force) is an immoral government. the more of that it does the more immoral it is.
communism is the most immoral and socialism is just a lighter and slightly less immoral version of communism.
lazs
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communism is immoral.. any government that takes from one person to give to another... by force..(and that is what government is, force) is an immoral government. the more of that it does the more immoral it is.
Shoot, that's what democrats are doing to us now. Especailly with Welfare.......
(refer to my new thread in the o'club)
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So what's your criteria? Democracy = power of democrats?
You probably don't get me, Mugabe really got elected by the majority, he was whet they really wanted.
It is easy to get a majority vote when those who vote against are bullied into voting 'for' or not voting at all. Chasing the opposition candidate going into hiding because of fear for his life helps as well.
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Cuz we're Americans. It's what we do. If anyone doesn't like it, they can get off this AMERICAN website.
White trash has spoken
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mojava.. the article you linked is simplistic and false logic. They don't even get a paragraph into it before they state a false premis and then built the rest of the house of cards logic on that.
they define the republican party or.. their euphemism for capitalism.. as having the purpose of making only a few prosper while the rest suffer... that is not the purpose at all... the purpose is to provide all the opportunity to prosper and raise the overall prosperity of everyone but especially those who have worked hard and earned it.
Socialism says.. "from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs" Capitalism and democratic republics say.. "individual rights and the right to the pursuit of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness." It says that each man is the captain of his own destiny and that he will go as far as his abilities take him.. it should provide the armies and the courts to protect him in this pursuit.
Just because someone whines or has the ability to whine does not mean they deserve to take from others.
Socialism is immoral.. it is taking by force from one to give to another for no reason other than to redistribute the wealth and to achieve some equality of outcome no matter how much or little each person contributes.
lazs
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Yutes are such easy targets for communism, socialism etc. If you have ever heard some one speak about communism you would think, wow that is beautiful. Only problem is it doesn't work. Heck at one time Russia didn't have toilet paper.
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angels.. yes.. welfare and such are socialism as are public schools the way we run them.. it is immoral and.... as you can see.. it is a total failure.
We are not without socialism here and every bit of it is evil. we have less than most places tho so we are better off. We are more free because of it. The democrats here have sold out to the socialist voters.. the unions.. the teachers.. the environmentalists and the welfare addicts.. they can only exist by promising more and more of everyone elses money to these groups.. you save $2000 a year at walmart? kill it... they are not union... car industry going down the tubes? who cares so long as they get that auto worker vote...
schools shot? don't let anyone have vouchers cause the teachers will have to work for a living and be angry at the polls.. infrastructure shot? well.. we needed the road money to pay for socialism.. energy costs too much? sorry.. can't drill for more or build nuclear power plants or mine the coal.. let em eat cake.
and... take away their guns cause when they finally wake up... you sure as hell don't want em to be armed.. as diane finestein says... "we have to ban the .50 caliber because it can penetrate the armor on a armored limmo."
In a shooting war.. I would have no problem with shooting every sob who told me he was gonna take something away from me for my own good.
Those privlidged, spoiled little brats in the pictures not withstanding.. as least oswald had the courage and conviction to go and live in a commie country paradise for a while. I wonder if they can get che t shirts in china?
lazs
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Ever hear of the 'red tide'.
Well there are several versions of the red tide, but as I know it - as it was explained to me by a non party affiliated professor - was that eventually and inevitably, communism or socialism would make its way into America and take a majority rule in government.
That was 15 years ago. I thought the guy was nuts. He believed that the 'down and out' will support this and make this happen because they are usually the loudest. It's always presented as 'doing the right and kind thing'.
Funny how it always ends up being the biggest sin to humanity and creating more war than what we have now. But the idiots of the world don't look at history and how it reflects on them today.
Everyone thinks their special. New flash: you're not. You're just another blob of flesh walking this planet for a very short period of time.
History WILL repeat itself if you choose to ignore it.
It's the basic definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expected a different result when all things are constant. How many times do you have to watch people bang their heads on the wall to find out that it hurts for yourself?
Communism and socialism is BAD,........very very bad.
I'll tell you this. I won't be going to work if anymore of my paycheck goes out to fund other people's lax lifestyles.
I believe in helping those that can't help themselves! But I also believe in responsibility for ones actions. At the rate we are going, with the current nutjob running for president - if he gets in we are all screwed.
Us 'middle classers' aren't going to keep shuffling off to work everyday busting our tulips so that others can sit on theirs.
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Having an election doesn't mean it's a democracy.
Having a democracy doesn't mean you're free.
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Socialism says.. "from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs" Capitalism and democratic republics say.. "individual rights and the right to the pursuit of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness." It says that each man is the captain of his own destiny and that he will go as far as his abilities take him.. it should provide the armies and the courts to protect him in this pursuit.
"from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs" - it's Communism. Never happened so far. Socialism is "from each according to his ability and to each according his participation".
Each man a captain of his destiny?! My GrandFather was a son of a willage blacksmith, he retired as an Artillery colonel. Was it possible under your "capitalism"? No. Providing armies and courts?! Are you kidding?! Armies and courts protect the rich against the poor.
USSR was one of the few countries where "social ladder" was available for everyone.
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My GrandFather was a son of a willage blacksmith, he retired as an Artillery colonel. Was it possible under your "capitalism"? No.
:huh
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Each man a captain of his destiny?! My GrandFather was a son of a willage blacksmith, he retired as an Artillery colonel. Was it possible under your "capitalism"? No.
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/pow0bio-1
One example that comes to mind... :aok
Joker
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http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/pow0bio-1
One example that comes to mind... :aok
Powell is extraordinary. My GrandFather was one of the millions.
Gorby was a tractor driver and got an order of Labour Red Banner for his working achievements when he was 14 years old. It didn't prevent it from becoming a traitor though :(
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Powell is extraordinary. My GrandFather was one of the millions.
Gorby was a tractor driver and got an order of Labour Red Banner for his working achievements when he was 14 years old. It didn't prevent it from becoming a traitor though :(
Most Americans didn't come from military families either.
Richard Bong was a farmers son, went on to become the highest scoring American ace of WWII.
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My GrandFather was a son of a willage blacksmith, he retired as an Artillery colonel.
Some examples from the US come to mind...
1. Seveth child of a carpenter from Milan Ohio, Tom became a founding member of the modern world.
2. Adopted son, Steve dropped out of college after one semester, backpacked around India in search of spiritual enlightenment, attended some summer lectures with his buddy, Steve, worked for Atari, 2 Steves then started work in their garage and became icons of capitalism.
3. Born on the frontier, mother died when he was 9, father remarried and he was raised with a sister and three step siblings. Attended school less than a year. Became a lawyer, a postmaster, a surveyor, member of the state legistature, a member of the US House of Representatives, and 16th President of the USA.
4. born in Hannibal, Missouri as an only child. Bill later moved with his family to Chicago, where he attended school up until the eighth grade. He enlisted in the United States Navy during World War I, serving as a radio operator. He had no formal education past the eighth grade other than the courses which he took in the Navy. In the 20's he developed the first practical car radio. Invented the 8-track music tape cartridge in 1964, and in 1963, flew his creation; the icon of busness jets.
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White trash has spoken
Who says I'm white? And, if you dont like what us Americans have to say, you can piss off and go to a different BB. My reply wasn't to you directly, I quoted you because it was more anti-American BS.
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Another example...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/04/AR2008070402260.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/04/AR2008070402260.html)It was inspiring for Zeyada, 40, a native of Khartoum who is studying for a master's degree and hopes to become a psychologist. She, like many others in the group, said she was "proud to be an American." But she said that when she looked at the cast on the stage -- Bush, Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) and a gaggle of federal judges in black robes -- she saw her American dream for her four children, ages 7 to 12, who watched from the crowd.
"My kids have a big chance here," she said, referring to the United States. She pointed toward the stage. "Those men up there, maybe they can be one of them."
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What's so bad about a totalitaria... Lets see... Mao, Hitler and your buddy Uncle Joe... three famous totalitarians.
I can give you maybe 90 million examples of what they did wrong.
Power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutley.
Actually the origins of totalitarianism is religion.
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Come on Boroda, get on here and tell us that the people who have been mentioned are all simply "extraordinary" exceptions to your statement, and therefore don't count for the puposes of this discussion. :rolleyes:
They, and many, many more did not come from "the millions" as your grandfather did, right?
You simply choose to ignore anything that doesn't fall in line with your view of things.
" a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest...."
carry on... :aok
Joker
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boroda....when I was young in the 70's we had a communism experiment here.. it was truly "from each according to his abilities and to each according to his needs."
I know that you like to think that no pure form of this has ever been tried before... hence the utter and total failure of all communism so far...but...
We had your experiment.. not only was it the pure communist way but.. it was totally voluntary.. everyone wanted to be involved.. we called em communes.. I spent a lot of time as a biker going from one to another on the road.. My brother and his wife lived on several of the larger ones for years.
It was a total and utter failure.. the ones who worked hard eventually got tired of supporting those who realized that they didn't have to do anything or.. did as little as possible... everyone got depressed (like the drunks in your country) and the things fell apart with much bickering and hard feelings.. and rightly so.
communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.
A military path is not the kind of opportunity that most people want. they want to own their own business and their own home and their own car and have the freedom to say what they want and see what they want and go where they please. living in a government housing complex with another family... often strangers.. is not what we want.
You had to build walls with armed guards to keep your people in.. You couldn't sell your ideals to any country on the planet without using force.
It is simply a really bad idea and it is immoral.. tell me how taking, by force. from me and giving to someone else is moral.
lazs
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- communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.
- tell me how taking, by force. from me and giving to someone else is moral.
lazs
The first point is so well said I could never improve upon it.
The second begs the question: their answer is that it was never moral for you to have more in the first place. "Everyone must be equal in achievements, not merely in rights."
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you don't believe that people earn the right to have more for themselves and their families by achievement?
Not everyone wants the same thing so even doing away with money or housing or whatever would not make things equal. There will never be an even distribution of work.. not in amount or in content and it will be percieved differently by each.
That is why you have to allow each to seek his own reward whatever that may be. The reward of one is not the reward of another. What makes some happy drives others to depression.. how is that equal if you decide what makes everyone happy? opportunity is the best that you can offer. The more and the more varied the opportunity the better for the most people.
it is not complex.
lazs
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read my post again.
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communism kills the spirit of the achievers and makes drones and worthless scum of the underachievers and naturally lazy.
Ah!But you wrong:)Great minds do not create(invent) for money.Its a gift to the world,and its up to you Imperialistic bastages to sell it to people:)Edison publicly electrocuted an elephant to convince people that Tesla's Alternating Current was far too dangerous to use.The war against Tesla led him to become involved in the development and promotion of the electric chair.That's a hell of a spirit eh:)?
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Ah!But you wrong:)Great minds do not create(invent) for money.Its a gift to the world,and its up to you Imperialistic bastages to sell it to people:)
So if it weren't for us imperialistic bastiges, the world would have one pair of telephones (One for Bell, one for Watson), one Apple computer, one pop up toaster, one TV, Damn us jingoistic mass producers for profit just screw it all up don't we? :rolleyes:
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So if it weren't for us imperialistic bastiges, the world would have one pair of telephones (One for Bell, one for Watson), one Apple computer, one pop up toaster, one TV, Damn us jingoistic mass producers for profit just screw it all up don't we? :rolleyes:
You lost me
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You lost me
It is not the initial invention that makes life better, it is the mass production of that invention in the competitive marketplace that puts affordable products in our hands.
Bell invented the telephone (ironically) in a lifelong effort to help the hearing impaired, but it was for profit companies like ATT which mass produced the telephone and strung wires everywhere that made telecommunications commonplace.
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also.. it matters not if a few eggheads are cloistered in a world of acadamia.. the commies did that pretty well.. we do it pretty well.. I doubt that most of the 1 in a million eggheads who do pure research would know if they were in a lab in America or Soviet Russia..
But.. they are only a handful.. not the masses.. not the people. The rest of us have a variety of needs and hopes and communism allows for very little opportunity.
communism plays down to the most worthless.. the most worthless thinks that living in a cube in a state slum with another family is pretty darn good living... everyone else forced to do the same hates it. the most worthless thinks that the few things they are allowed to buy is plenty.. the rest are misserable. A few think being locked in with walls and guards and gun towers and not being able to visit or live in other countries is just fine... the rest...
Killing commies is humane and moral. commies are a threat to our very humanity.
lazs
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Killing commies is humane and moral. commies are a threat to our very humanity.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Oh come on now, you're just trolling.
Remember, freedom and the open society are the best defense against those who would quash them.
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It is not the initial invention that makes life better, it is the mass production of that invention in the competitive marketplace that puts affordable products in our hands.
Bell invented the telephone (ironically) in a lifelong effort to help the hearing impaired, but it was for profit companies like ATT which mass produced the telephone and strung wires everywhere that made telecommunications commonplace.
"Competitive marketplace" is the thing that prevents inventions from spreading wide. Any totalitarian regime will organize mass-production much more effective and at cheaper price then any "free market" monopoly. Totalitarian Russian Empire got all it's large warships equipped with wireless telegraph by the time Marconi got his patent. Russian Navy was the first to use ECM in May 1905 at the battle of Tsushima :)
Just compare Soviet and American tanks before the War :)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Oh come on now, you're just trolling.
I think Lazs really believes it. He belongs to a different humanity.
Remember, freedom and the open society are the best defense against those who would quash them.
Exactly what I think. Totalitarian society beats Western "democracies" in this fields.
Nazi Germany was a Western democracy. Maoist China was a classic totalitarian state. When I speak about "totalitarianism" I mean the society where I had pleasure to live: good old USSR, and, maybe some "People's Democracies".
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"Competitive marketplace" is the thing that prevents inventions from spreading wide
Well....inventions that suck, anyway. What was that frightful 2 cycle car that ya had to wait years for, in good ol East Germany?
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also.. it matters not if a few eggheads are cloistered in a world of acadamia.. the commies did that pretty well.. we do it pretty well.. I doubt that most of the 1 in a million eggheads who do pure research would know if they were in a lab in America or Soviet Russia..
But.. they are only a handful.. not the masses.. not the people. The rest of us have a variety of needs and hopes and communism allows for very little opportunity.
communism plays down to the most worthless.. the most worthless thinks that living in a cube in a state slum with another family is pretty darn good living... everyone else forced to do the same hates it. the most worthless thinks that the few things they are allowed to buy is plenty.. the rest are misserable. A few think being locked in with walls and guards and gun towers and not being able to visit or live in other countries is just fine... the rest...
Killing commies is humane and moral. commies are a threat to our very humanity.
lazs
Huh?Are you drinking right now?This must be your most idiotic post ever.
You confusing Communism with Buchenwald.You know..It may come as a shock to you but umm,you COULD choose profession in USSR.Just go to college.You wont have to pay $30000 for semester in MGU.Pass the test,and you're in.And we both know education in USSR was very good.Funny thing,USSR didn't have as much parasites in system as USA."Reproducing to get Government check" thing will not work,you just gonna have work.Don't like your work,then go to College,gladly you don't need to pay rent,Apartments are free for every family.
It seems like you're quoting USA college book printed sometime in 1952:)
And to say that "Killing commies is humane and moral.",i mean Lasz:)You of all people here,grown man,seen life, Wise , religious (?)
I didn't expect that from you,honestly:)
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Well....inventions that suck, anyway. What was that frightful 2 cycle car that ya had to wait years for, in good ol East Germany?
We're deceiving ourselves if we believe that our "competitive market" in the USA is bringing us all of the goods and services that we desire or need. That is not the fault of free market capitalism, but of the unholy alliance between our corporations and government. Witness GM's destruction of the EV1 over the protests of people who were willing to shell out lots of money to buy one. For the most part, the stuff our frankenstein corporate-socialism economy sells to consumers is based on manufactured desire, and not need or real utility.
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Well....inventions that suck, anyway. What was that frightful 2 cycle car that ya had to wait years for, in good ol East Germany?
At least you wont get screwed by salesmen at the dealership:)
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We're deceiving ourselves if we believe that our "competitive market" in the USA is bringing us all of the goods and services that we desire or need. That is not the fault of free market capitalism, but of the unholy alliance between our corporations and government. Witness GM's destruction of the EV1 over the protests of people who were willing to shell out lots of money to buy one. For the most part, the stuff our frankenstein corporate-socialism economy sells to consumers is based on manufactured desire, and not need or real utility.
That's the not the system's failing, it's the people failing to take advantage of the system for all it's worth. People, especialy in masses, always screw up the nicest things, no matter how fool proofed they are. Hell, they even screwed up communism (of all things!) in russia (of all places!).
You guys point the finger at Lazs ragging on commies and their back asswards ideas, but yourselves don't even try and see why he says so. Myself, I'd rather die trying to make a living in capitalist pandemonium, than live like a pig being spoon fed other people's earnings.
As for good old Russia being a place one would love to live in, that's just what some card carrying commie would say, isn't it? My father spent a few years working in the USSR 3-12 months at a time in the mid and late 80s, and from his first hand accounts, it sucked. And he wasn't even pessimistic about it (except for being followed all over, having to point a gun from across his hotel room at one of those guys that was going through his luggage in the middle of the night, and other choice russian habits).
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We're deceiving ourselves if we believe that our "competitive market" in the USA is bringing us all of the goods and services that we desire or need.
Actually most of those goods you don't even need.People get spoiled,fat,lazy,stupid.Look at kids these days,take away PS3 from a child and he/she will end up in mental institution.Which you cant force anyone to go to.You need to talk potential mass killer,mentally unstable moron,alcoholic,drug addict into it.And i believe they send you bill when you out.
Ah,the sweet freedom:)It should be limited.
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It seems like you're quoting USA college book printed sometime in 1952:)
That's exactly the degree of understanding that I usually see here, with some exceptions.
And to say that "Killing commies is humane and moral.",i mean Lasz:)You of all people here,grown man,seen life, Wise , religious (?)
I didn't expect that from you,honestly:)
I can expect "kill a commie from your mommy" from a man who was in Vietnam when he was young, but sometimes it makes me sick.
They just don't think we are humans. They preach for diversity and can't understand that there may be some people who want to live in a different society, not in their beloved "capitalism" backed up with Protestant "morale", with conscience above profit. Look, they still fight Linux, the greatest project that shows that we are right and they are wrong. In totalitarian USSR there could be no obstacles like copyright laws and all that silly crap.
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At least you wont get screwed by salesmen at the dealership:)
Just curious, what country do you live in KGB? I know Boroda is in the ussr... i mean russia.... one of the many independent countries that are around now after communism FAILED around 20 years ago.
So no matter what point you try to make for communism, just remember, it's dead.
I've met russians and poles that came here in the early and mid 1980's because they said plain and simple, communism sucked.
we have our problems, and most of them come from socialist policies that undermine what this country is supposed to be.
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They just don't think we are humans. They preach for diversity and can't understand that there may be some people who want to live in a different society, not in their beloved "capitalism" backed up with Protestant "morale", with conscience above profit. Look, they still fight Linux, the greatest project that shows that we are right and they are wrong. In totalitarian USSR there could be no obstacles like copyright laws and all that silly crap.
You're human alright, that isn't the problem.. It does make for a dramatic post to pretend that's what it is, though.
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That's the not the system's failing, it's the people failing to take advantage of the system for all it's worth. People, especialy in masses, always screw up the nicest things, no matter how fool proofed they are. Hell, they even screwed up communism (of all things!) in russia (of all places!).
You guys point the finger at Lazs ragging on commies and their back asswards ideas, but yourselves don't even try and see why he says so. Myself, I'd rather die trying to make a living in capitalist pandemonium, than live like a pig being spoon fed other people's earnings.
As for good old Russia being a place one would love to live in, that's just what some card carrying commie would say, isn't it? My father spent a few years working in the USSR 3-12 months at a time in the mid and late 80s, and from his first hand accounts, it sucked. And he wasn't even pessimistic about it (except for being followed all over, having to point a gun from across his hotel room at one of those guys that was going through his luggage in the middle of the night, and other choice russian habits).
Your Dad had a gun to point at someone?!
All you guys listen to such "first hand accounts" that make us laugh.
Yes, it sucked for a foreigner on a business trip, who expected to see strip shows while he is away from his wife. From my point of view Moscow in late-80s was a damn funny place.
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He did.. A fake one. It was the second time one of those guys had followed him, not just everywhere in public, but actualy into his room in the middle of the night. First time he woke up as he was finishing his tour of the bedroom, and got out in no hurry after my dad yelled at the tosser. Second time he froze and slowly backed out of the room only when he thought a gun was pointed at him.
Making you laugh because I tell you a first hand account that's not likely to be much different from what really happened.. Well, you put it most tellingly in your numb witted pigeon-holing all "guys that listen to first hand accounts".
My dad actualy made a lot of friends and wasn't bored on his trips. He didn't only go to Moscow but also to a few other labs. The only one I remember is somewhere near Baikal lake. They had an electron scanning microprobe there. The first hand accounts he gave me were pretty objective and considerate. He did point out the good things that couldn't have happened elsewhere. Orgies and lots and lots of partying... There was no contradicting the state, though, and that with other things pretty much void any possible "good old cccp".
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Just curious, what country do you live in KGB? I know Boroda is in the ussr... i mean russia.... one of the many independent countries that are around now after communism FAILED around 20 years ago.
So no matter what point you try to make for communism, just remember, it's dead.
I've met russians and poles that came here in the early and mid 1980's because they said plain and simple, communism sucked.
we have our problems, and most of them come from socialist policies that undermine what this country is supposed to be.
And what is this country supposed to be?:)
Well,USSR is dead because Gorby didn't know what he was doing,or maybe he did,maybe he did on perpose.
We will never know.
It actually reminds me of similar scenario.Wealthiest nation on earth elects a moron for president,and i think nation suspected that he was a moron.After first presidential term nation knows for sure that he is definitely a moron and reelects him again.How that happened we will never know,its a mystery.USA economy is in toilet now.
What I'm saying is,it takes very little,maybe one man to destroy something very great.
For USSR it was Gorby,for USA its gonna be George:)
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It's a mystery because you never learned to see things through american eyes. You're stuck on russian, or wherever it is you came from.
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And we both know education in USSR was very good.
:rofl My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
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It's a mystery because you never learned to see things through american eyes. You're stuck on russian, or wherever it is you came from.
At least i CAN see through my russian, or wherever it is i came from eyes.
I've been in this country long enough to realize that system is just as fragile as communism.
And you guys keep fuc$#g it up.
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:rofl My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
I have studied in American school back in 89. I mean - attended a good private school in the US. Seeing 18-year old guys studying what we knew when we were 14 was funny. I don't know who had more ideological agenda, i didn't attend much "humanitarian" classes, what I saw was at least awfully biased.
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1.
And what is this country supposed to be?:)
2.
Well,USSR is dead because Gorby didn't know what he was doing,or maybe he did,maybe he did on perpose. -
3.
It actually reminds me of similar scenario.Wealthiest nation on earth elects a moron for president,and i think nation suspected that he was a moron.After first presidential term nation knows for sure that he is definitely a moron and reelects him again.How that happened we will never know,its a mystery.USA economy is in toilet now.
What I'm saying is,it takes very little,maybe one man to destroy something very great.
For USSR it was Gorby,for USA its gonna be George:) -
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It sounds like you don't like it here, so why not leave?
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ussr is dead because communism sucks, it's a failure on paper and in practice. It was only there for around 70 years. The Romanov dynasty alone lasted about 200 years.
3.
eh.. i don't think so.
4.
Go watch Animal Farm on google video.
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:ROFL My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
Moving to nursing home? Its about time.
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You guys point the finger at Lazs ragging on commies and their back asswards ideas, but yourselves don't even try and see why he says so.
Ummm, I don't think we were criticizing lazs for "ragging on commies," but for saying we ought to murder them. :uhoh
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Commies are the sort of people that ought to disappear like the vestigial tailbone is in the process of doing, yep.
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1.
It sounds like you don't like it here, so why not leave?
2.
ussr is dead because communism sucks, it's a failure on paper and in practice. It was only there for around 70 years. The Romanov dynasty alone lasted about 200 years.
3.
eh.. i don't think so.
4.
Go watch Animal Farm on google video.
Ah,high school drop out.Some quick "googling" about Russia and he learned that before Commies there was some dude called "Tsar",some more googling and he finds out that "Tsar is a title,the dudes name was actually Nikolay Romanov.
Impressive.
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It's odd when people whine about communism and directly support it though your local walmart....
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Commies are the sort of people that ought to disappear like the vestigial tailbone is in the process of doing, yep.
Too late to delete.
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I have studied in American school back in 89. I mean - attended a good private school in the US. Seeing 18-year old guys studying what we knew when we were 14 was funny. I don't know who had more ideological agenda, i didn't attend much "humanitarian" classes, what I saw was at least awfully biased.
I went to CCRI in 1999.First day i "learned" that 3+2 or 2+3 equal the same.I cry-ed that day.
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Its not the commies you don't like,its just country that could invade USA and possibly win,happend to be Communistic at the time.If USSR were anarchistic,guess what,you'd be itchin' about anarchists right now.
Keep guessing. :aok I'm out of this thread.
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I used wiki to see exactly how many years the Romanov family was in power, compared to communism, to show that what your defending didn't last very long in russia's history. The number of years wasn't something i knew off the top of my head.
Funny that you seem to get insulted so easily defending a form of gov't that collapsed in such a short time. I have nothing against russians, in fact i've met some sweet russian babes that love it here, and they say that communism is garbage too, hence the reason there parents moved here. That's part of assimilation.
What i don't like is people that come to my country from one that's in shambles, who tell me how much better it is where they come from.
What's the next logical question for anyone with pride to ask them? If you don't like it here, than WHY ARE YOU HERE, WHY NOT GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM?
As far as American commies. I'd say a good 80% are stupid pot head burnout kids, that really have no idea what the hell communism really is, and what would happen to them if they lived in a true communist society. Eventually they'll grow out of it. And the ones that don't well there's always what lazs said, and for the exact same reasons he said it.
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Quote from: Anaxogoras on Today at 01:11:18 PM
Remember, freedom and the open society are the best defense against those who would quash them.
Exactly what I think. Totalitarian society beats Western "democracies" in this fields.
Which is why Teller, Einstein, Fermi, and Salard ran from the impending Nazi takeover of Europe and ran to the open arms of the Soviet Union. Wait... that didn't happen... where did they run to?
Nazi Germany was a Western democracy. Maoist China was a classic totalitarian state. When I speak about "totalitarianism" I mean the society where I had pleasure to live: good old USSR, and, maybe some "People's Democracies".
Nazi germany was not a western democracy. It got into power through subversion of the democracy of the weimar republic. Much like when Rome was changed into a dictatorship Roman Republic fell and it changed into the Roman Empire. It went from being a partially democratic state to rule by one man.
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I love that some of you are defending the killing of American communists in the name of western/capitalist values... the contradiction is just painful, and it does a real disservice to the values that make the USA a great country. So much for the 1st amendment. :rolleyes:
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I used wiki to see exactly how many years the Romanov family was in power, compared to communism, to show that what your defending didn't last very long in russia's history. The number of years wasn't something i knew off the top of my head.
Funny that you seem to get insulted so easily defending a form of gov't that collapsed in such a short time. I have nothing against russians, in fact i've met some sweet russian babes that love it here, and they say that communism is garbage too, hence the reason there parents moved here. That's part of assimilation.
What i don't like is people that come to my country from one that's in shambles, who tell me how much better it is where they come from.
What's the next logical question for anyone with pride to ask them? If you don't like it here, than WHY ARE YOU HERE, WHY NOT GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM?
As far as American commies. I'd say a good 80% are stupid pot head burnout kids, that really have no idea what the hell communism really is, and what would happen to them if they lived in a true communist society. Eventually they'll grow out of it. And the ones that don't well there's always what lazs said, and for the exact same reasons he said it.
Nah,i got insulted after watching animal farm video.
Tell me you don't find Lasz's comment about murdering commies a Little disturbing?
What is his deal,he was rapped by a commie or something?
Tell me please when exactly did i ever say that my country is better than USA?
"American commie" sounds as ridiculous as...i dont know.....Democratic Sharia law,its just cant happen.
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Exactly what I think. Totalitarian society beats Western "democracies" in this fields.
Which is why Teller, Einstein, Fermi, and Salard ran from the impending Nazi takeover of Europe and ran to the open arms of the Soviet Union. Wait... that didn't happen... where did they run to?
Yeah ok,they gonna run to country that about to be invaded by country that you just ran from.
They were indeed great minds:)
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"Competitive marketplace" is the thing that prevents inventions from spreading wide. Any totalitarian regime will organize mass-production much more effective and at cheaper price then any "free market" monopoly. Totalitarian Russian Empire got all it's large warships equipped with wireless telegraph by the time Marconi got his patent. Russian Navy was the first to use ECM in May 1905 at the battle of Tsushima :)
Just compare Soviet and American tanks before the War :)
:eek:
The "Competitive marketplace" spurs on further 'inventions'.
Tell us about the Lada Boroda. The Russian Fiat was much worse than the Italian Fiat.
British Patents
* British patent No. 12,039, Date of Application 2 June 1896; Complete Specification Left, 2 March 1897; Accepted, 2 July 1897
U.S. Patent 0,586,193 "Transmitting electrical signals", (using Ruhmkorff coil and Morse code key) filed December 1896, patented July, 1897
In 1900 a radio station was established under Popov's instructions on Hogland island (Suursaari) to provide two-way communication by wireless telegraphy between the Russian naval base and the crew of the battleship General-Admiral Apraksin. The battleship ran aground on Hogland island in the Gulf of Finland in November, 1899. The crew of the Apraksin were not in immediate danger, but the water in the Gulf began to freeze. Due to bad weather and bureaucratic red tape, the crew of Apraksin did not arrive until January 1900 to establish a wireless station on Hogland Island. By February 5, however, messages were being received reliably.
Gee Boroda that is 2 years after Marconi got his patents.
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Tell me you don't find Lasz's comment about murdering commies a Little disturbing?
Yeah I did...he left out hippies.
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Gee Boroda that is 2 years after Marconi got his patents.
Popov demostrated radio in 1895 in Russian Academy of Science. His works were immediately classified by Military Ministry.
With all it's drawbacks, totalitarian Russian Empire had state-of-the-art science and research.
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there is a pendulum effect.. the fact that communism and strict socialism simply do not work is always the fuel for the pendulum swinging the other way..
soooo.. a bunch of commies in basements all plotting and working away are just foolish tools who really can't do anything but make tiny little changes and ride the pendulum.. when it swings their way they feel all jubilant and justified.. when not.. they drown their sorrows in their vodka and become bitter.
lazs
If Obama is elected, I'm moving to Israel. I'd go to Canada, but IIRC, they have very strict gun-laws. (please correct me if I'm wrong. As I don't wanna move all the way to Israel only to find out it isn't true. :cry)
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Nazi germany was not a western democracy. It got into power through subversion of the democracy of the weimar republic. Much like when Rome was changed into a dictatorship Roman Republic fell and it changed into the Roman Empire. It went from being a partially democratic state to rule by one man.
Well, you mean that German people that elected nazis and their allies into Reichstag were forced to vote for them? As for me - it was a perfect example of your favourite Democracy, majority of Germans supported Hitler and really wanted to have some Russian/Polish/whatever slaves and a nice piece of land in Ukraine. Vox populi vox Dei, isn't it a sacred thing for a true Democracy?
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Well, you mean that German people that elected nazis and their allies into Reichstag were forced to vote for them? As for me - it was a perfect example of your favourite Democracy, majority of Germans supported Hitler and really wanted to have some Russian/Polish/whatever slaves and a nice piece of land in Ukraine. Vox populi vox Dei, isn't it a sacred thing for a true Democracy?
The Nazis never achieved a majority in the Reichstag. They formed a coaltion with the nationalists to achieve a working majority and Hindenburg passed the ‘Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State’
To obtain 2/3 majority needed to change the constitution the Nazis carried a campaign of intimidation: they depicted opposition as unpatriotic / Nazis in the SA seized control of state Gov. / opponents in the SPD and trade unions were arrested / the building where the Reichstag was surrounded by SA and SS troops. This law granted Hitler the right to:
make laws w/out Reichstag approval
make treaties w/ foreign states w/out Reichstag approval
Hitler was now a dictator and no longer needed the support of political parties.
This is where the German democracy ceased and the totalitarian dictatorship began.
This is all pretty basic history...
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I love that some of you are defending the killing of American communists in the name of western/capitalist values... the contradiction is just painful, and it does a real disservice to the values that make the USA a great country. So much for the 1st amendment. :rolleyes:
Would you kill a man who tries to rob you in the middle of the night?
Would you kill a government man who tries to rob you in plain sight in the middle of the day?
The answer to both SHOULD be the same. It also tells you a lot about the person.
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you commies need to realize that I was serious.. I would kill any commie that got into power here. It is a religion of force and it's intent is to crush my spirit and my soul.
russian points out that I support communism through walmart. this is different and it could be said that china is supporting capitalism because of walmart. the more china sees of freedom and capitalism.. the less like bad old russia they are. I will support anyone so long as it is my choice. communism removes choice when it has power over you.
That is why they needed to build walls to keep people in. If I am suffering from a 1952 version of what soviet russia was like then it is because they acted and act like the 1952 version.. why not just allow free trade and free travel both to and from if it is such a paradise? Why not show the world how well the system works and how every russian had a big lada car and an armed secret police guy to drive it?
I own my own home.. couple of em.. I have a big old Lincoln towne car and 3 others...safe full of guns.. I can travel to any country I want.. I have a high school education and picked up the rest at night in pretty much free clases. What would I be in soviet russia?? another guy making gloves with three thumbs for each glove. and drowning my sorrows in lousy vodka.
Nope.. I would kill commies here because they would kill me to make me do as they wish. If I resisted they would kill me.
The normal idiot no nothing commie who has no power over me? no.. I would not kill the poor idiot.
lazs
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Laz, ....you're for communist Chinese government but against Soviet government.....to me they are same.....in fact, Chinese right now are A LOT worse due to enormous influence over USA, something Soviets never had, and there is no way in hell China will attempt government change like Russia did...
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russian.. we will see.. you never had an open society or anything like one in the bad old days of soviet russia..
My 1952 version is one hell of a lot more accurate than you retro look at it and your comparing china to it.
china is becoming more capitalist because it is the superior system.. they have more access to the outside world than bad old russia ever had. The internet and cable and cell phones.. all enemies of communism.
soviet version of communism depended on the poeple never knowing how good everyone else had it. It depended on em not being able to get out.
lazs
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Yeah I did...he left out hippies.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
russian.. we will see.. you never had an open society or anything like one in the bad old days of soviet russia..
My 1952 version is one hell of a lot more accurate than you retro look at it and your comparing china to it.
china is becoming more capitalist because it is the superior system.. they have more access to the outside world than bad old russia ever had. The internet and cable and cell phones.. all enemies of communism.
soviet version of communism depended on the poeple never knowing how good everyone else had it. It depended on em not being able to get out.
lazs
Iran/North Korea/China....
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Popov demostrated radio in 1895 in Russian Academy of Science. His works were immediately classified by Military Ministry.
With all it's drawbacks, totalitarian Russian Empire had state-of-the-art science and research.
That would be Czarist Russian Empire?
This is what you said:
Totalitarian Russian Empire got all it's large warships equipped with wireless telegraph by the time Marconi got his patent.
Have to love your revisionist history Boroda.
Beginning in the early 1890s Popov continued the experiments of other radio pioneers, such as Heinrich Hertz. In 1894 he built his first radio receiver, a version of the coherer. Further refined as a lightning detector, it was presented to the Russian Physical and Chemical Society on May 7, 1895 — the day has been celebrated in the Russian Federation as "Radio Day". The paper on his findings was published the same year. In March 1896, he effected transmission of radio waves between different campus buildings in St Petersburg. Upon learning about Guglielmo Marconi's system, he effected ship-to-shore communication over a distance of 6 miles in 1898 and 30 miles in 1899.
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Have to love your revisionist history Boroda.
Sorry, I thought Marconi patented radio in 1902. Maybe I mixed the date with his first long-range (transatlantic) communication test.
In 1905 Russian auxillary cruiser Ural had a radio so powerfull that it could jam Japanese radio communications.
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Laz, ....you're for communist Chinese government but against Soviet government.....to me they are same.....in fact, Chinese right now are A LOT worse due to enormous influence over USA, something Soviets never had, and there is no way in hell China will attempt government change like Russia did...
Yes, but if China gets out of control, we just dont buy their stuff.
Communism is no good to anybody. Everybody is miserable, you have no freedom and you have less things. I've seen pictures of Soviet grocery stores and it looked almost barren compared to the ones we had back then.
The soviets even had radios that would turn on when-ever the Soviets would want them to turn on in your house. The communist Soviets didn't care at all for their people (Chernobyl and the Aral Sea can prove it) I wonder who would support communism? 2 of the worst enviromental disasters happened BECAUSE of Soviet/Communist Rule.
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Sorry, I thought Marconi patented radio in 1902. Maybe I mixed the date with his first long-range (transatlantic) communication test.
In 1905 Russian auxillary cruiser Ural had a radio so powerfull that it could jam Japanese radio communications.
I think so. ;)
The Ural didn't jam for long as it was sunk. Anyways got any proof.
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I think so. ;)
The Ural didn't jam for long as it was sunk. Anyways got any proof.
It was even worse: it was ordered to stop jamming by adm. Rozhestvensky. Radio wasn't used in battle, they relied on flag signals.
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Russia 'backed Litvinenko murder' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7494142.stm)
Tell me it ain't so...
:devil
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Russia 'backed Litvinenko murder' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7494142.stm)
Tell me it ain't so...
:devil
Mhh.UK citizen,Ex-KGB agent converted to Islam.
Some people call it Murder,others prosecution for treason.