Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: cowboy73 on July 09, 2008, 02:05:30 AM
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Good sticks now hoing! I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting. These are good sticks, they used to be at least. I was in the da Doolittle and i was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position. WHY? Scared :O
I challenge all players that are tired to start saying what they feel about this!
Coward score mongers!
HItech help with this before this becomes the norm or there will be people leaving by the boatload!
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Don't give them the shot then.
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come on! You got killed by ho lol I always hear the whining.
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Here's the truth about the HO shot.
It very rarely happens, for the simple reason that in order for it to be a real honest to god HO, you must also have a gun solution on your opponent. 99% of the HO shots that people complain about when they die are in reality "deflection" shots.
Bottom line is, if you die from a true HO shot, you helped engineer that shot.
Now, that being said, there are many trainers who can help you recognise and deflect that scenario in the TA. Barring that (if you are in the TA and no trainers are available), I would be more than happy to help you out with recognising where/what your opponent is doing.
Heck, you coud even see me flying in the MA and give me a shout. I am always available to unscrew stuff.
Have a few years behind me with this, so the offer is there.
cheers,
RTR
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I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting.
Sometimes it really is.
HO'ing isnt any more wrong than vulching, ganging, picking, ack hugging and some more ppl activity what happens all time in every arena. And virtually everyone sometimes do something classified as extremely lame, dweeby and gamey.
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I guess the only way to "fix" this "problem" is to, oh, I don't know, point yourself at his guns? If you two are screaming at each other at 300mph, level and no one flinches til 200d out, then why not do something to avoid it? You're not being forced to fly, to play this game or to fly with others if you chose to, you can climb higher, try a different approach, or hell just simply not care about it. I'll HO if someone is approaching my level B-25H, I love having a reason to fire a buttload of .50's and a 75mm into someone's face.
We may like to act like Knights of the Sky from WWI with salutes and co-alt fights and no shooting on the first pass rules, but if you're a threat to someone or to their mission or wingman, any situation in which their bullets can strike your plane is fair game.
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Here's the truth about the HO shot.
It very rarely happens, for the simple reason that in order for it to be a real honest to god HO, you must also have a gun solution on your opponent. 99% of the HO shots that people complain about when they die are in reality "deflection" shots.
Bottom line is, if you die from a true HO shot, you helped engineer that shot.
Now, that being said, there are many trainers who can help you recognise and deflect that scenario in the TA. Barring that (if you are in the TA and no trainers are available), I would be more than happy to help you out with recognising where/what your opponent is doing.
Heck, you coud even see me flying in the MA and give me a shout. I am always available to unscrew stuff.
Have a few years behind me with this, so the offer is there.
cheers,
RTR
With all due respect I feel a direct need to call BS on the "Deflection" stuff. It's NOT a deflection when you're in my windshield or sites. The only time I see much "deflection" is during looping.
I'm with this guy and the thousands of others who are just sick of it.
OTOH, if everyone >>>KNEW<<< >>everyone<< else would fire in a HO merge, people would get more inventive to avoid the obvious and would NOT have that chance to burn you with dweebery point mongering.
Most of this is done with the pile-it A (dweeb) assuming pile-it B (someone with morals) will honor the merge and NOT fire on the merge,.... so pile-it A fires first, assuming pile-it B's morals will not defend him. Pile-it B loses every time.
I'm going to quit whining about HOs and just fly by the rule that if you appear in my windshield and I will fire 100% of the time. This will help eliminate the HO merge so often in the first place. REMOVE the advantage from the dweeb all together. Make it real, give him\her their own medicine. And let it be known to them before they pull in front of you for that shot they ARE the target, you WILL fire. We aren't shaking hands on the pass.
SO that being said, pull in front of me and I will fire because 80% of the point monger dweebs will NOT honor the morals of not firing on a HO merge. So fire away, because I WILL. Thats how you eliminate it, flip the tables. :)
I had to finally resort to this because it's almost every flight someone attempts an HO WAY too often. Why should *I* be the idiot for an idiot? Remove the moral leverage he uses on you and pull the trigger.
So pull in front of my 190 A5 of P-51D and it's GOING to fire, period. Sorry, <shrug> hate to be a dork but.... better learn to be more creative on selections of merging a fight. Because you HOers are going to watch your brains mist on the rear of your canopy. :)
Pull the trigger.
That is all <S>
Animl
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well said Animl
RT (pile-it B ;))
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Most of this is done with the pile-it A (dweeb) assuming pile-it B (someone with morals) will honor the merge and NOT fire on the merge,.... so pile-it A fires first, assuming pile-it B's morals will not defend him. Pile-it B loses every time.
If 'B' keeps in mind 'A' can fire at first merge and perform some sort of lead turn for example, 'B' will win every time. If 'B' just fly stright in hope 'A' will not fire, he deserve being HOed.
Unless it happens in DA, of course.
Fighting HOers by HOing them, hm... isnt too cleverly i say.
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In the theme of dweebery, are those who are so worried about their score that they run from 1v1's. This morning the same player used his fellow chess members as sacrificial lambs to get kills, running away every chance he could from a 1v1.
I don't really care about score, but play for the fight. Where are all the players? Where are the people that just want a good fight, win or lose? I could have a 6 to 1 K/D if I ran like these little girls do, but what fun is that? I could go on, but it's really not worth it..
I will end this whine to say that if any one wants a good fun DA, look me up in the MA. I am tired of all the meek game play and want a good fight.
As far as HO's go, you deserve what you get if you fly into someones guns. Avoid the front of a plane, and your problems are solved. Plain and simple.
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In the MA (or an event) any shot is fair game - if I (stupidly) allow my aircraft to be where his bullets can reach me it's my fault. If you keep this in mind, you'll find that you rarely have an HO problem - in fact, I don't remember when I was last HO'ed (except the "unplanned variety" that happens when you get more planes than you can keep track of in the heart of a furball).
As has been said - if your opponent appears to be driving straight in for a head on, maneuver for an offset merge and then lead turn him. A B-17 can just about out come around on someone who's intent on drilling in straight through you, and almost any fighter in the game can do so easily. He may be willing to flip the coin on a 50/50, but I'm not. And the easiest pilot in the game to kill is the one that's does exactly what you expect him to do.
<S>
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If 'B' keeps in mind 'A' can fire at first merge and perform some sort of lead turn for example, 'B' will win every time. If 'B' just fly stright in hope 'A' will not fire, he deserve being HOed.
Unless it happens in DA, of course.
Fighting HOers by HOing them, hm... isnt too cleverly i say.
>Fighting HOers by HOing them, hm... isnt too cleverly i say.
> If 'B' just fly stright in hope 'A' will not fire, he deserve being HOed.
Ok which one is it? Sounds to me like you just said what I did then contradicted ur self.
Maybe but it's the only way. Relying on others to be moral about is naive at best. I will fire, learn it, live it, love it. :)
Get in front of me and ur dead, period. Unless ur pile-it A then it makes sense.
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I always get Ho'd
so yesterday i started Hoing back, man did i hear alot of moaning :rock
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In the MA (or an event) any shot is fair game - if I (stupidly) allow my aircraft to be where his bullets can reach me it's my fault. If you keep this in mind, you'll find that you rarely have an HO problem - in fact, I don't remember when I was last HO'ed (except the "unplanned variety" that happens when you get more planes than you can keep track of in the heart of a furball).
As has been said - if your opponent appears to be driving straight in for a head on, maneuver for an offset merge and then lead turn him. A B-17 can just about out come around on someone who's intent on drilling in straight through you, and almost any fighter in the game can do so easily. He may be willing to flip the coin on a 50/50, but I'm not. And the easiest pilot in the game to kill is the one that's does exactly what you expect h. im to do.
<S>
True enough, but I will fire on the target the instant the HO merge is chosen by pile-it A.
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>Fighting HOers by HOing them, hm... isnt too cleverly i say.
> If 'B' just fly stright in hope 'A' will not fire, he deserve being HOed.
Ok which one is it? Sounds to me like you just said what I did then contradicted ur self.
Try to re-read my post from beginning, in first sentence i said what 'B' need to do to defeat HOer.
Maybe but it's the only way. Relying on others to be moral about is naive at best. I will fire, learn it, live it, love it. :)
Get in front of me and ur dead, period. Unless ur pile-it A then it makes sense.
You are free to do that. Generally, if you fire at first merge you lost fight already.
Edit:
If you think HOing HOers is good way to fight them, you need to spend some time in TA with trainer.
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Good sticks now hoing! I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting. These are good sticks, they used to be at least. I was in the da Doolittle and i was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position. WHY? Scared :O
I challenge all players that are tired to start saying what they feel about this!
Coward score mongers!
HItech help with this before this becomes the norm or there will be people leaving by the boatload!
nuthin new.
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...was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position....
My initial impression reading your post was you either got roped or you rolled over too soon while trying to rope. Can't tell for sure from the "went vert". If you got roped and it was a HO, he rolled over a bit too soon. In either scenario, I would consider it a legitimate shot even if it was purely head on. I tend to belong to the school of thought that says a nose-to-nose on the initial merge is a "HO" with all of the negative connotations, everything after that means you allowed the other guy a shot.
Regards,
Hammer
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With all due respect I feel a direct need to call BS on the "Deflection" stuff. It's NOT a deflection when you're in my windshield or sites. The only time I see much "deflection" is during looping.
I'm with this guy and the thousands of others who are just sick of it.
OTOH, if everyone >>>KNEW<<< >>everyone<< else would fire in a HO merge, people would get more inventive to avoid the obvious and would NOT have that chance to burn you with dweebery point mongering.
Most of this is done with the pile-it A (dweeb) assuming pile-it B (someone with morals) will honor the merge and NOT fire on the merge,.... so pile-it A fires first, assuming pile-it B's morals will not defend him. Pile-it B loses every time.
I'm going to quit whining about HOs and just fly by the rule that if you appear in my windshield and I will fire 100% of the time. This will help eliminate the HO merge so often in the first place. REMOVE the advantage from the dweeb all together. Make it real, give him\her their own medicine. And let it be known to them before they pull in front of you for that shot they ARE the target, you WILL fire. We aren't shaking hands on the pass.
SO that being said, pull in front of me and I will fire because 80% of the point monger dweebs will NOT honor the morals of not firing on a HO merge. So fire away, because I WILL. Thats how you eliminate it, flip the tables. :)
I had to finally resort to this because it's almost every flight someone attempts an HO WAY too often. Why should *I* be the idiot for an idiot? Remove the moral leverage he uses on you and pull the trigger.
So pull in front of my 190 A5 of P-51D and it's GOING to fire, period. Sorry, <shrug> hate to be a dork but.... better learn to be more creative on selections of merging a fight. Because you HOers are going to watch your brains mist on the rear of your canopy. :)
Pull the trigger.
That is all <S>
Animl
:rofl
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Good sticks now hoing! I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting. These are good sticks, they used to be at least. I was in the da Doolittle and i was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position. WHY? Scared :O
I challenge all players that are tired to start saying what they feel about this!
Coward score mongers!
HItech help with this before this becomes the norm or there will be people leaving by the boatload!
If I went vertical, hoping for a rope, and I get to the top and roll over, with practically 0 airspeed, and see you coming straight up AT ME ... you will get a face full and I would not consider that a HO ... nor would I consider that a merge either.
HiTech will do nothing to stop those who HO ... it's up to you to spoil your opponents guns solution. In time, hopefully you will understand what Oleg has pointed out on avoiding the HO and using that to setup a lead turn.
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True enough, but I will fire on the target the instant the HO merge is chosen by pile-it A.
The instant you allow your opponent to dictate the fight ... you, for all intents and purposes, have just lost the fight.
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It's really quite easy to avoid the HO. If you get HO'd it's, for the most part, your own fault. There are those few times where you're too low on E and you can't avoid it.
Beyond that, anything goes after the opening merge IMO but from your post it sounded like a deflection shot.
In my experience, most HO shots are taken by n00bs who start spraying from 1.5K out. If you're reaction is to HO back, then welcome back to n00bville. Enjoy.
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Good sticks now hoing! I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting. These are good sticks, they used to be at least. I was in the da Doolittle and i was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position. WHY? Scared :O
I challenge all players that are tired to start saying what they feel about this!
Coward score mongers!
HItech help with this before this becomes the norm or there will be people leaving by the boatload!
Uhhhh.. sounds like you got roped... which isn't a HO in the sense of being a HO.
<edit> oh, some others picked up on this already.
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whaaaa...
what a girl
learn to fly
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Hey if anyone want to hear the new guys opinion here goes. Personally if someone is heading straight for me I've just assumed he's going to shot so I evade. I rarely have a HO opportunity and if it isn't a waste of ammo I take it also. If I'm not mistaken the germans HO-ed every chance they got. Isn't that why the spiral is on the 109s nose? So you can't tell whether he's vert or not. Anyways HOs suck by all means but I think they are realistic and that is why I fly this game...
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Yesterday I engage a dora and no matter how hard I tryed to avoid the HO shots this guy just insisted on it. 4 or 5 passes his guns are blazing. So while I'm avoiding these shots, 2 more cons jump into the fight. And they're all hoing me. So I HOed them all and landed my 3 kills :devil All three guys were brand new to the game. They have no clue about ACM. And I'd bet they don't even care. They just want a kill no matter how they get it. Welcome to squeaker season. :lol
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HO is the LEAST cowardly attack. HOing gives any dweeb, on any given day, a good shot at bringing you down.
That is why I don't cotton to the HO. I can't abide giving the enemy a chance.
For further study, watch the gunfight between Roy Bean and Bad Bob(The Albino Bad Bob, not Dirty Bad Bob, the New Mexican) from "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean". That is the preferable angle from which to shoot your enemy.
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HOing gives any dweeb, on any given day, a good shot at bringing you down.
And also a really good shot at killing themselves in the process. Honestly, how smart is it to engage in a tactic where you have less than a 50% of coming out unscathed? While it is a valid tactic, it's not the smartest tactic and in the majority of the cases those that only use head on tactics don't survive for very long against someone that prefers to use better tactics. YMMV.
ack-ack
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HO is the LEAST cowardly attack. HOing gives any dweeb, on any given day, a good shot at bringing you down.
That is why I don't cotton to the HO. I can't abide giving the enemy a chance.
For further study, watch the gunfight between Roy Bean and Bad Bob(The Albino Bad Bob, not Dirty Bad Bob, the New Mexican) from "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean". That is the preferable angle from which to shoot your enemy.
It's funny BnZ, but I've got the same opinion of the "cowardly" HO. IMO, it's one of only a select few ways to fight and show anything remotely like "bravery" in the game. Having had several relatives in the services, I can't rightfully attribute bravery to a game, but since the terms seem to float freely...
HOing is like jousting. 50/50 chance of failure, you're opponent has an equal chance to win or lose. Could you imagine a knight of old skillfully maneuvering his pony around behind his opponent to poke him in the back? LOL, he'd be laughed out of the country!!
If "bravery" in the game were to have any correlation to RL, it would basically mean facing a challenge- even when the odds aren't in your favor. So, that leaves what? Most "aces" fighting 1v1 wouldn't be showing bravery, since they are likely to win, or more specifically, they EXPECT to win. Fighting when you expect to win, and using tactics that allow you to do so with little threat to yourself isn't exactly brave. As a matter of fact, it could be seen as cowardly. Isn't believing you may not win a prerequisite to acting bravely?
Like a gunfighter shooting an opponent in the back- Smart? Sure... Brave? Nope...
It's not a new concept either. Various methods of fighting have been considered brave, and others "cowardly" historically. In the brave column we'd see the Native American concept of "counting coup", European soldiers standing shoulder to shoulder in lines to be mowed down by muskets, and knights jousting or engaging in close combat. The American militia fighting guerrilla-style weren't seen as brave (at least by their opponents- they were hiding behind trees and rocks, for Pete's sake!), and neither was their tactic of sniping off the British officers with rifles. From what I've seen, working your way around your opponents weapons to "poke him in the back" has never been considered "brave".
So, "bravery" in game- HOing, or attacking bombers from their six, or purposely allowing yourself to be ganged if you're skilled enough to handle most 1v1's... I can't come up with much else...
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And also a really good shot at killing themselves in the process. Honestly, how smart is it to engage in a tactic where you have less than a 50% of coming out unscathed? While it is a valid tactic, it's not the smartest tactic and in the majority of the cases those that only use head on tactics don't survive for very long against someone that prefers to use better tactics. YMMV.
ack-ack
Which is precisely why BnZ claimed it was "brave". Not smart, or a great tactic, but "brave".
(Again, squeemish about the use of the word "brave"...)
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i know its been said but ill say it again for the slow ones,
a true HO is when BOTH have gun solutions, if your opponent firs into your canopy but you can not put rounds into him due to fact that you DONT have a gun solution its NOT a HO.
it is easy to avoid the HO, if you face an opponent that only HOs than you can totally set him up, they should be an east kill.
maybe i should say that again, na i wont i hate saying things twice.
and for those who think HOing is as lame as Vulching, well at least the one you are HOing has a chance, Vulching is the lamest thing in AH, but what are we gonna do cry to HTC and ask, beg, plead,whine,bribe, for him to stop it. please get a grip.
this game is awesome learn to overcome, learn to your advantages, what you like and dont change the way you play for any one, and i am saying that about all the "dweebery" its a game have fun, i think getting over on what at first was hard, is half the reward, in other words if you keep dying to a HOer dont get mad, dont give up learn to over come them and then every time you come across a pure HOer, you will kill them every time! and then maybe that person will think to himself "maybe im doing something wrong? how can i "overcome" this way of fighting seeings how my HOing just does not work."
nuff said
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A few days ago I was in a LA LA circling around, enter a set of Boston's. This pilot, and I use that term loosely, sees me approaching his 6 and turns 180, losing his drones(thanks for the free bees) and tries to HO me. I dodged, turned around to chase and see him doing 180 again. So we figure 8 4-5 times until I finally decide to open up and make him go BOOM. I didn't recognize the name, must have been a newb. Kinda feel sorry for them. :lol
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I was kidding around fellows. Don't read too much into it. I can't believe I'm the ONLY one on the BBS who has seen that movie though...
HOing is like jousting. 50/50 chance of failure, you're opponent has an equal chance to win or lose. Could you imagine a knight of old skillfully maneuvering his pony around behind his opponent to poke him in the back?* LOL, he'd be laughed out of the country!!
I agree with you about "bravery", MM.
*Off-Topic Rambling: As far as ka-nigitly activities though, they used alot of technique which you wouldn't expect. Liechtenauer writes of in the 14th century of how to carry your lance point a little low and to left to deflect his lance to the right as you pass (on the right), thereupon to give him a stab or sweep him off the horse with the haft on the pass. Also, he points out, don't ride in upon the foe at at full speed gallop, you can't maneuver well(!) that way. He also recomends every "dirty" strike and tactic for hand-to-hand that the Marquis of Queensbury banned, as well as some the Marquis didn't even think of. :D
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What's that from BnZ?
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I always expect the HO in every encounter, and I'm right 99.9% of the time.
Last week, a lone D-Hog attempted the HO on every encounter for 9 straight minutes.
Happens every day.
ROX
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I guess I'm fairly new to the game. :O only played bout a year .while watching dogfights p-38 vs zekes. 38 pilots were taught to use avantage of speed (dive) then turn and head on them. while learning to fight against zekes/hurries :devil (in game) only defense (dont turn with em) extend and then head on to them and shoot. I've been working on not firing on the 1st merge :O. works bout 80/20 (I'm trying to be a sporting pilot) and seem to b catching the ho less and less. so I really think its about being/having some sportmanship ( :D it is a game after all) but for the new pilots that just wanna play/fly they will (probably) learn some ACM. I think thoo if ur :cry bout the ho (it takes 2)
you only have your self to blame :salute
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Here's the truth about the HO shot.
It very rarely happens, for the simple reason that in order for it to be a real honest to god HO, you must also have a gun solution on your opponent. 99% of the HO shots that people complain about when they die are in reality "deflection" shots.
Bottom line is, if you die from a true HO shot, you helped engineer that shot.
Now, that being said, there are many trainers who can help you recognise and deflect that scenario in the TA. Barring that (if you are in the TA and no trainers are available), I would be more than happy to help you out with recognising where/what your opponent is doing.
Heck, you coud even see me flying in the MA and give me a shout. I am always available to unscrew stuff.
Have a few years behind me with this, so the offer is there.
cheers,
RTR
While true, this doesn't always apply in practice. Many, many times you will not have the E to sufficiently dodge the head on attack ( leaving you either to get shot trying to dodge or taking the 50/50 HO), so "It's not a HO, it's deflection" defense does not hold water in my opinion, especially in a DA fight.
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i know its been said but ill say it again for the slow ones,
a true HO is when BOTH have gun solutions, if your opponent firs into your canopy but you can not put rounds into him due to fact that you DONT have a gun solution its NOT a HO.
it is easy to avoid the HO, if you face an opponent that only HOs than you can totally set him up, they should be an east kill.
maybe i should say that again, na i wont i hate saying things twice.
and for those who think HOing is as lame as Vulching, well at least the one you are HOing has a chance, Vulching is the lamest thing in AH, but what are we gonna do cry to HTC and ask, beg, plead,whine,bribe, for him to stop it. please get a grip.
this game is awesome learn to overcome, learn to your advantages, what you like and dont change the way you play for any one, and i am saying that about all the "dweebery" its a game have fun, i think getting over on what at first was hard, is half the reward, in other words if you keep dying to a HOer dont get mad, dont give up learn to over come them and then every time you come across a pure HOer, you will kill them every time! and then maybe that person will think to himself "maybe im doing something wrong? how can i "overcome" this way of fighting seeings how my HOing just does not work."
nuff said
I'm with Ink on this.
I always laugh a bit at the "I'm always getting HO'd" whiners because it takes two to tango. The more correct whine would be "I'm tired of always losing the HO's I get myself into."
Face it, you can see them coming way off most of the time. What you really ought to do is get some acm going where you can turn the HO into a 6 shot. When I see them coming I will either go vert at the appropriate moment dropping flaps and chopping throttle or sometimes just pitch it to get the deflection. IF you hang in it until the bitter end it is your own fault, quit complaining, have a cookie.
Lotsa people are making HO passes nowadays, figure out how to convert that into a quick kill, conserve your ammo and go find a real fight.
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If I'm not mistaken the germans HO-ed every chance they got. Isn't that why the spiral is on the 109s nose?
No. The spiral was supposed to confuse enemy ack crews.
The only 'HO' that German pilots were trained to go for to my knowledge was against bombers. That's the safest approach.
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I expect to get the HO shot, and appreciate when it doesn't happen.
It probably isn't the HO that's the issue so much as the dependence on "One pass haul A##" that is seen so much. If you turn into that guy, you get a faceful as it's all he has. I think it also contributes to the extensive use of either the fastest birds or the 4 cannon birds. I think it interesting that the N1K has apparently passed the LA7 in use as those 4 cannons compensate for a lot.
Nothing is going to change however. That part of the AH crowd that looks for the fight will continue to have to deal with that part that looks for the shortest distance between taking off and landing to get their 'attaboys' :)
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Its a cartoon plane :confused: If it was real life there would be no HO because of the possibility of getting one self killed. If there was a period of time from a death to a life (say five min) maybe there wouldn't be as may HO shots. :furious Also flying a A6m5 like me always demands people to HO me because the turn fight is out, so I have to work to avoid it. :devil
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Cracked me up the other night when someone was on 200 crying about our country being alt monkeys and HOtards.
Not 5 minutes later I was winging with a squaddie, we arrived on the edge of a furball and he dove in after a con. I stayed up to keep eyes on when a con appears with about 2K on me, and I was at ~14K. He dives in as we merge and he pulls for the HO, long stream of tracer fire. I rolled out of phase slightly to avoid it.
Keeping an eye on my squadmate and the con, pulled a little hard to avoid a pass and stalled her slightly. Dove away as I recovered and got pinged, engine. I go dead stick and bail shortly thereafter. Died to the same 200 HO and Alt-monkey whiner. Who HOed, at alt. Classic.
But I still had a fun night, and I'm not one to name names... <S>
(http://www.chi-towndogs.com/images/chilidog.gif)
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Here's the truth about the HO shot.
It very rarely happens, for the simple reason that in order for it to be a real honest to god HO, you must also have a gun solution on your opponent. 99% of the HO shots that people complain about when they die are in reality "deflection" shots.
Bottom line is, if you die from a true HO shot, you helped engineer that shot.
Now, that being said, there are many trainers who can help you recognise and deflect that scenario in the TA. Barring that (if you are in the TA and no trainers are available), I would be more than happy to help you out with recognising where/what your opponent is doing.
Heck, you coud even see me flying in the MA and give me a shout. I am always available to unscrew stuff.
Have a few years behind me with this, so the offer is there.
cheers,
RTR
Well said RTR
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With all due respect I feel a direct need to call BS on the "Deflection" stuff. It's NOT a deflection when you're in my windshield or sites. The only time I see much "deflection" is during looping.
I'm with this guy and the thousands of others who are just sick of it.
OTOH, if everyone >>>KNEW<<< >>everyone<< else would fire in a HO merge, people would get more inventive to avoid the obvious and would NOT have that chance to burn you with dweebery point mongering.
Most of this is done with the pile-it A (dweeb) assuming pile-it B (someone with morals) will honor the merge and NOT fire on the merge,.... so pile-it A fires first, assuming pile-it B's morals will not defend him. Pile-it B loses every time.
I'm going to quit whining about HOs and just fly by the rule that if you appear in my windshield and I will fire 100% of the time. This will help eliminate the HO merge so often in the first place. REMOVE the advantage from the dweeb all together. Make it real, give him\her their own medicine. And let it be known to them before they pull in front of you for that shot they ARE the target, you WILL fire. We aren't shaking hands on the pass.
SO that being said, pull in front of me and I will fire because 80% of the point monger dweebs will NOT honor the morals of not firing on a HO merge. So fire away, because I WILL. Thats how you eliminate it, flip the tables. :)
I had to finally resort to this because it's almost every flight someone attempts an HO WAY too often. Why should *I* be the idiot for an idiot? Remove the moral leverage he uses on you and pull the trigger.
So pull in front of my 190 A5 of P-51D and it's GOING to fire, period. Sorry, <shrug> hate to be a dork but.... better learn to be more creative on selections of merging a fight. Because you HOers are going to watch your brains mist on the rear of your canopy. :)
Pull the trigger.
That is all <S>
Animl
Just remember while you are attempting to get a front aspect guns solution on a merge, I'm lead turning you..
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I occasionally whine on 200 about getting HO'd. It's always a case where I didn't have an option due to energy state or I was turning and too close before I saw the guy or, more likely, getting hit by a defelction shot as I moved to avoid the HO. And yes, even though it's a deflection if the guy was intent on HOing and hit me with the deflection as I moved to deny the HO it's still a HO IMO.
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But I still had a fun night, and I'm not one to name names... <S>
(http://www.chi-towndogs.com/images/chilidog.gif)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Which is precisely why BnZ claimed it was "brave". Not smart, or a great tactic, but "brave".
(Again, squeemish about the use of the word "brave"...)
I'll tellya whats brave! attacking B17s while flying a deuce, scoring the 1st kill, seeing it's 999 then going after the remaining 2 B17s :t ( now he is watching and waiting to HO you from his 12 oclock in any gun!! :lol 999 you friggin HOTARD :aok
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I expect to get the HO shot, and appreciate when it doesn't happen.
"One pass haul A##"
I like to call it HO&GO ;) straight at ya HOin away, haul prettythang straight thru and on to the next sector!! really funny stuff actually. Oh and nikis HO all the time!! its how they roll :lol to sit back and watch a niki fight reminds me of that old movie the last starfighter!! SPINNING and ROLLING in every concievable direction shooting the whole time!! Those of you old enough to remember that movie, just sit and watch a niki for awhile and you will laugh in rememberence :)
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like I said.........I don't get the ho stuff.........and I don't think you have a leg to stand on being in a combat zone. a kill is a kill. as for the pureists.........why not go to the dueling arena? or just get an NO-HO Arena established.
sure I'm new here......but I guarantee you I will always feel this way. I'll kill as many enemy in as many ways as I can......including but not limited to crashing into bombers if I'm out of ammo and/or to take one for the team and prevent a base from being bombed. It's all about the team.
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ah the good 'ole HO. I expect them every time, though most times I'm able to either avoid it while turning his attempt to my advantage...while he is busy lining it up, i've already begun working towards a better position. It is frustrating though at times, as they might connect in the small window of opportunity. It becomes frustrating as you are hoping for a good fight, but you don't get it....on the other hand, if there tactic is to HO from the start, you know it's not going to be a very good fight anyway so I guess it doesn't really matter. (aside from having to reup).
I agree, it is a tactic, but I know things aren't going great when I start thinking it is a good option. I'm sure many don't really care, as also stated, they just want guns blazing. Unless you are in tough spot, it seems you can find better odds than the 50/50 HO. Heck, even if you win the HO you seriously risk losing vital parts to your plane, not to mention the dreaded pw. So your chance of winning might be 50/50, but coming out it fighting condition, the odds are much less. I guess to be fair, if you are just flying around hoing, guess you don't need to many parts anyway.
I have bad nights, and generally after getting HO'd, I usually mumble and grumble over squad vox a bit, though more to myself, and off to the next sortie. It's just one of those constants that will always be here. Besides, it supplies us with endless discussion:)
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again.......I'm still wondering why people who think this way do not simply fly in the dueling arena....I'm stunned it bothers people.
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Try to re-read my post from beginning, in first sentence i said what 'B' need to do to defeat HOer.
You are free to do that. Generally, if you fire at first merge you lost fight already.
Edit:
If you think HOing HOers is good way to fight them, you need to spend some time in TA with trainer.
Edit:
If you think HOing HOers is good way to fight them, you need to spend some time in TA with trainer.
Sorry you're wrong, I can avoid the HO, barrel roll works, under works, slight rudder works..... and sissors will often kill him on the 6. I got that part down. It's when you spot a dot and head towards him and him you and at times it is what it is. You try to give him the benefit of the doubt and 90% he blows it, oir I should say I blow it by allowing it to happen.
It's the unwritten rule of no HO firing that only 50% abide to. Why even whine about it, remove it.
I'm OK with the HO merge and all, what I am not ok within myself is not firing. All I am saying is, from now on I will just assume the obvious. It's not that I WANT to fly that way in AH, frankly I don't care, because it's a game rule of sorts. In a nut shell I'm just going to fly the way I should. If someone chooses to merge with me in a HO I'm going to fire. I'm really NOT trying to be a dork about it. I don't SEEK a HO merge I have other options usually, it will take pile-it A to chose that path.
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again.......I'm still wondering why people who think this way do not simply fly in the dueling arena....I'm stunned it bothers people.
It only bothers those that expect a little sportsmanship in a game. HOing is a little like the pitcher throwing one at your head.
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Good sticks now hoing! I ran into several guys that think hoing is better than fighting. These are good sticks, they used to be at least. I was in the da Doolittle and i was in a fight, went vert he rolled over and shot in the head on position. WHY? Scared :O
I challenge all players that are tired to start saying what they feel about this!
Coward score mongers!
HItech help with this before this becomes the norm or there will be people leaving by the boatload!
Learn how to fly and AVOID IT CRYBABY>> Thats my opinion :noid
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Has anyone thought about, that in past wars (air battles), the looser of a HO never complained.
Just a thought.
Fred
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It only bothers those that expect a little sportsmanship in a game. HOing is a little like the pitcher throwing one at your head.
excuse my naivety ....
why wouldn't attacks from the rear be thought of as cowardly and unsportsman like? what could be more honest than a face-2-face first pass death match?
I think people have it back wards here.......and like I said.......... if it's all about the purity, sport and art of it all.......... try the dueling arena.
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It only bothers those that expect a little sportsmanship in a game. HOing is a little like the pitcher throwing one at your head.
ding ding ding, we have a winner!! :)
~A
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Give them the ho, after they miss you have already won half the battle. When I see someone trying to ho on a merge, my confidence goes through the roof, there is a reason they are going for the 50/50 chance.
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It's the unwritten rule of no HO firing that only 50% abide to. Why even whine about it, remove it.
I'm OK with the HO merge and all, what I am not ok within myself is not firing. All I am saying is, from now on I will just assume the obvious. It's not that I WANT to fly that way in AH, frankly I don't care, because it's a game rule of sorts. In a nut shell I'm just going to fly the way I should. If someone chooses to merge with me in a HO I'm going to fire. I'm really NOT trying to be a dork about it. I don't SEEK a HO merge I have other options usually, it will take pile-it A to chose that path.
I feel you are hopeless, but i will try one more time.
There are no 'unwritten rule' about HO unless you in DA. HO give you ~50% chances to win regardless of skill, if you happy with it you can HO every time. Good pilots prefer to avoid HO because they can achive far better results using their skills.
HO merge is common thing and its how most very good fights begins. Shooting in HO merge makes you looks like dweeb and puts you in great disadvantage if your opponent know what he doing. Always expect HO shot never shoot back, its first step to victory.
"Lots you have to learn, young padavan." (c)
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I feel you are hopeless, but i will try one more time.
There are no 'unwritten rule' about HO unless you in DA. HO give you ~50% chances to win regardless of skill, if you happy with it you can HO every time. Good pilots prefer to avoid HO because they can achive far better results using their skills.
HO merge is common thing and its how most very good fights begins. Shooting in HO merge makes you looks like dweeb and puts you in great disadvantage if your opponent know what he doing. Always expect HO shot never shoot back, its first step to victory.
"Lots you have to learn, young padavan." (c)
>There are no 'unwritten rule' about HO
BS, otherwise this conversation would NOT exist.
You also tend to contradict yourself.
I don't know ages of people in here so it inhibits what I should expect.
Dude, I'm not back pedaling to phonics. Either you don't understand what I am saying OR you just don't WANT to understand what I am saying. You're right you best let it go. Just in case you don't....
The HO appears in almost EVERY flight, and that's ok, but you tend to mix apples and oranges as if every HO merge and pilot is exactly the same. Think outside the box for a minute,... or don't <shrug>
The fact that 80% of the pile-its do not honor the first pass is why I will fire on you. If you don't like that concept, that's fine, but I get sick to death of honoring it after a 20 minute flight just to have to up and waste that time all over again because of a tard no-skill point mongering fool who hasn't "gotten it" yet. If you don't like my idea that's fine, it's also TS. Sorry.
I've been flying for 14 going on 15 years, I don't need piloting advice, I need to learn the game interfacing and the strat system.
I'll repeat myself SLIGHTLY one more time, then that's it, you're the one being hopeless here. I hate arguing with contradictions involved, that's worthless.
Yes I can avoid an HO AND kill him in the same pass, scissors work just fine, especially staying inverted, will put you on his 6 90% of the time in the same pass.
The point *I* made is, if pile-it A chooses to pull into a short range direct flow HO he's going to get fired on. A direct HO also means possible RAM and we all know they will do that too. I see NO harm in that as HE chose the path and I WILL give him that 50% chance instead of 100% chance, I'm not completely brain dead but I still have a few brain cells that communicate once in a while. At no point that I ever even hint that it would be me just going out and HOing everyone. IF I do honor the first pass, and he trys to fire on me, every pass with a HO merge will spray tracers into him. That's just smart flying like it or not.
I'm starting to think you don't want people to rebel against those who do not honor it to give yourself that 75-100% attempt? People just don't misinterpret things 2-3 times without an agenda plugging the nerve center. I dunno <shrug>
What sucks about my idea is people who do honor it like a decent pilot would, would get bummed. That's the only thing that bothers me, as for the dweeb we ALL know does it on purpose,... screw him, he can waste that time all over again. I'm tired of clearing the way for idiots by honoring something the other pilot will not.
Here we're talking about Honoring a first pass and yet you say there is no unwritten rule.
I don't mind dying, I mind it when I get nothing but HO deaths, no real fights and a HUGE waste of my time. Screw that.
I assume you don't know me, I'll give you that,...but please don't insult me with "needing training" the only thing I don't got a grip on 100% in this game is the interface. I'm not even flying seriously yet, I'm still finding the limits of the planes and dying by trial and error.
NM
Animl
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again.......I'm still wondering why people who think this way do not simply fly in the dueling arena....I'm stunned it bothers people.
People that usually make those comments only know how to HO, so they see nothing wrong with it. I'm also sure that you get your arse handed back to you many more times than you win a fight.
ack-ack
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I hope to one day, be just "Average" in this cartoon plane game. Until then I'll just wallow with the po' boys at the po' house of AH.
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excuse my naivety ....
why wouldn't attacks from the rear be thought of as cowardly and unsportsman like? what could be more honest than a face-2-face first pass death match?
I think people have it back wards here.......and like I said.......... if it's all about the purity, sport and art of it all.......... try the dueling arena.
They often are. That's why you also hear so many whines about being picked.
The sport is in getting a gun solution through a match of wit and skills while manouvering an airplane when both parties have "a sporting chance" through a cold merge (or without being picked). Once the fight is on not many will argue with the fact that anything goes.
As to shooting someone in the back being cowardly, since the introduction of the fighter aircraft pilots have been taught that the best place to be is on their enemy's six. You can't equate this to a duel in the wild west. Cowboys didn't have to manouver a 5 ton aircraft around in three dimensions to deliver a gun solution. Beyond that, most fighter dogfights don't end with a pilot kill, but rather a damaged aircraft and a bailed, but live, pilot.
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I hope to one day, be just "Average" in this cartoon plane game. Until then I'll just wallow with the po' boys at the po' house of AH.
well Kar... im sure you are above average, but i have not had the pleasure of fighting ya yet, which i hope to change.
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I've been flying for 14 going on 15 years, I don't need piloting advice, I need to learn the game interfacing and the strat system.
Not wanting it, and not needing it, are two different things.
First off, no one here cares how long you've been flying. I've been playing these games on and off for about 10 years. I've been able to beat the crud out of some guys who've been playing for 20 years, and I've had my butt absolutely handed to me by guys who've been playing 20 months or less. Around here, the only thing seniority means is you understand more inside jokes.
From your last post, it seems as though you think people advise others to avoid the HO because of some sort of honor system or unwritten rule. That's a pretty malicious way to view this community, IMO.
People are advising others to avoid the HO because people do want to help others, and when it comes down to angles, options, and sound tactics, going for a HO at the merge is the bottom of the barrel.
If you get fed up with someone trying to HO you, and position yourself to retaliate with a HO, you have negated any advantage you would have had by doing any number of different things. A lead turn, a controlled dive to build useable speed, setting up an overshoot, anything, really.
The point is, any of the other options give you a better than 50% chance to kill your opponent. 50% is really the best you can hope for by caving in. And refusing to cave in does NOT all of a sudden turn his chance into "100%" (really, where do you get that? Shooting a plane in the face that's passing below you and to the side is one of the more difficult shots in the game...) As soon as he goes for the face shot, he's really put himself in trouble, anyway. He has three options at this point: run, die, or work like crazy to climb out of that hole he got himself into.
Really though, I think you need to stop acting like you've learned everything. You do need training. We ALL do. Some of us just make it more obvious ;)
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Not wanting it, and not needing it, are two different things.
First off, no one here cares how long you've been flying. I've been playing these games on and off for about 10 years. I've been able to beat the crud out of some guys who've been playing for 20 years, and I've had my butt absolutely handed to me by guys who've been playing 20 months or less. Around here, the only thing seniority means is you understand more inside jokes.
From your last post, it seems as though you think people advise others to avoid the HO because of some sort of honor system or unwritten rule. That's a pretty malicious way to view this community, IMO.
People are advising others to avoid the HO because people do want to help others, and when it comes down to angles, options, and sound tactics, going for a HO at the merge is the bottom of the barrel.
If you get fed up with someone trying to HO you, and position yourself to retaliate with a HO, you have negated any advantage you would have had by doing any number of different things. A lead turn, a controlled dive to build useable speed, setting up an overshoot, anything, really.
The point is, any of the other options give you a better than 50% chance to kill your opponent. 50% is really the best you can hope for by caving in. And refusing to cave in does NOT all of a sudden turn his chance into "100%" (really, where do you get that? Shooting a plane in the face that's passing below you and to the side is one of the more difficult shots in the game...) As soon as he goes for the face shot, he's really put himself in trouble, anyway. He has three options at this point: run, die, or work like crazy to climb out of that hole he got himself into.
Really though, I think you need to stop acting like you've learned everything. You do need training. We ALL do. Some of us just make it more obvious ;)
Ya know what I learned in this thread, some of you people don't now how to listen, or retain things in text. You just like to hear yourself talk, that's about it.
I got 6 sentences in and said "screw this mud hole".
There's some real smart people in here who got what I said the first time, the first post.
<Walks away shaking head>
Not going to give it the time of day.
Animl
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With all due respect I feel a direct need to call BS on the "Deflection" stuff. It's NOT a deflection when you're in my windshield or sites. The only time I see much "deflection" is during looping.
I'm with this guy and the thousands of others who are just sick of it.
OTOH, if everyone >>>KNEW<<< >>everyone<< else would fire in a HO merge, people would get more inventive to avoid the obvious and would NOT have that chance to burn you with dweebery point mongering.
Most of this is done with the pile-it A (dweeb) assuming pile-it B (someone with morals) will honor the merge and NOT fire on the merge,.... so pile-it A fires first, assuming pile-it B's morals will not defend him. Pile-it B loses every time.
I'm going to quit whining about HOs and just fly by the rule that if you appear in my windshield and I will fire 100% of the time. This will help eliminate the HO merge so often in the first place. REMOVE the advantage from the dweeb all together. Make it real, give him\her their own medicine. And let it be known to them before they pull in front of you for that shot they ARE the target, you WILL fire. We aren't shaking hands on the pass.
SO that being said, pull in front of me and I will fire because 80% of the point monger dweebs will NOT honor the morals of not firing on a HO merge. So fire away, because I WILL. Thats how you eliminate it, flip the tables. :)
I had to finally resort to this because it's almost every flight someone attempts an HO WAY too often. Why should *I* be the idiot for an idiot? Remove the moral leverage he uses on you and pull the trigger.
So pull in front of my 190 A5 of P-51D and it's GOING to fire, period. Sorry, <shrug> hate to be a dork but.... better learn to be more creative on selections of merging a fight. Because you HOers are going to watch your brains mist on the rear of your canopy. :)
Pull the trigger.
That is all <S>
Animl
Here's your first post... I've highlighted an important part.
You "had to finally resort to it?"
Oh, I understand what you're saying. So do some people you wouldn't, evidently, label as being "real smart."
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...I thought dweebery was a bell curve?
Think writing the function in a piece-wise format helps to explain.
For x < 0 and x not = -1 you have ln ( -(x^2 -1) and for 0 < = x and x
not = to 1 you have ln (x^2-1).
In the first instance, the derivative is (1 / -(x^2-1) ) (-2x) )
In the second, the derivative is (1 / (x^2-1) ) (2x) ).
Both are equal to 2x / (x^2 - 1).
...or something like that.
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:confused:
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blah blah blah
"edited"
Why bother, nothing will changed.
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Vudak is not only a real nice guy who I had the pleasure to meet in person, but he is also one of the better sticks in AH. Ignore his advice at your own peril...
As for the HO, go ahead and HO me all you want. If I have any room to avoid it, you will simply throw the fight at the merge giving me an easy victory. Better yet, when I see the HO I know I'm dealing with a noob who has no clue what to do and it gives me even more confidence.
As the saying goes, "any angles you give the bandit at the merge will haunt you for the rest of the fight".
That said, I'm more than willing to help anyone learn how to avoid the HO, just ask me.