Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sirvlad on July 22, 2008, 06:45:32 PM
-
Simple question,why must we be so unorganized? Titanic tuesday 150 some guys on and we nothing.Mission posted earlier 9 guys joined it,there was 109 knights on. Think hi tech should rank loyalty,sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
-
LMAO HAHAHAHAH
-
:lol I understand the need to rant about things sometimes, I really do.
-
IN
Before the lock!
Squ33k
-
think hi tech should rank loyalty,sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
:huh
I'm loyal to the furball and I've been dedicated to it for over 10 years. Isn't that enough?
-
IN
Before the lock!
Squ33k
phail.
-
:huh
I'm loyal to the furball and I've been dedicated to it for over 10 years. Isn't that enough?
If it were, then HT would have chosen to design one simple map, no strat, no bombers, and only fighter aircraft.
-
Simple question,why must we be so unorganized? Titanic tuesday 150 some guys on and we nothing.Mission posted earlier 9 guys joined it,there was 109 knights on. Think hi tech should rank loyalty,sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
I thought the Knits were the most organized of all the countries. That's the story I've heard anyway...
-
:huh
I'm loyal to the furball and I've been dedicated to it for over 10 years. Isn't that enough?
All hail the furball!
-
guess alot of people and squads just prefer to do the things they find fun, which I guess isn't always what you find fun.
-
If you want to see unorganized, join the Rooks! :lol
-
If you want to see unorganized, join whatever country you're on right now! The other countries are much more organized!
-
:lol :lol :lol :lol
-
If you want to see unorganized, join whatever country you're on right now! The other countries are much more organized!
So true!!!!
And yes, I was looking at the Knights earlier this Titanic Tuesday, and thinking "why the f is it the other countries are having huge missions and getting bases, but we're stuck in this corner-like thing"?
<S>
Yossarian
-
If you want to see unorganized, join whatever country you're on right now! The other countries are much more organized!
:rofl :aok
"Why do XXX never pork? Why do are XXX so unorganized?" Oh boy, XXX do suck!"
If there ever was an universal whine shared by all teams, it is this one. :D
-
You nits really cracked me up tonight.. You guys were trying very hard to capture the last rook base in the middle furball islands. (Bish had already captured the other side to kill the fun) Well I'm not much of a tool shedder anymore but I strapped on a 110 to go kill troops then a LA to go kill ords.
I figured hey it's a great place to have a nice furball so why let the tool shedders kill it right? Well funny thing happened after all the ords and troops were dead on the island the Nits stopped upping and the furball was killed.. :huh :uhoh :huh
I guess there was no interest in the actual fight, but rather just bombing FH's, VH's, buildings and trying to vulch planes taking off..
Go figure...who would have ever thought that going to pork ords and troops would kill a furball. Where have the good days gone? :rolleyes:
-
Simple question,why must we be so unorganized? Titanic tuesday 150 some guys on and we nothing.Mission posted earlier 9 guys joined it,there was 109 knights on. Think hi tech should rank loyalty,sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
Any bets on number of pages this thread will go? :huh
-
:rofl :aok
"Why do XXX never pork? Why do are XXX so unorganized?" Oh boy, XXX do suck!"
If there ever was an universal whine shared by all teams, it is this one. :D
You are an unorganized pork sucker :D
-
Titanic Tuesday is all about horde busting ! no real estate taking on that day!
-
phail.
:mad:
Im still in!!!
Squ33k
-
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/cheese.gif)
To complete the thread :aok
-
The grass is always greener at the other side of the Fence.
-
I am sooo sick of not being organized! I hate how people log on to this game and fly wherever they want, however they want. Someone takes time to organize a well planned mission and not everyone will join it. Idiots!!!! But.... I have a solution (your welcome). I am forming a new country, we are going to be the Queens! Not only will we do what our Queen leader tells us, but we will look fabulous while doing it! Plus, as an added bonus you will get to choose the small dog of your choice to fly with you. But wait, that's not all. You will also get a free subscription to "O" magazine to keep up on all of the important issues on those long flights. So put down your brains, pick up your dog's, and come fly with the Queens!
This offer not valid in Rhode Island
-
Actually, he asks a valid question. Maybe worded differently (?)
Most folks aren't interested in joining missions on the Titanic Tuesday. They are going to reset the map the next day anyway, so most folks won't bother with the strategic ideals. Any strategic gains go for naught the next day. Titanic Tuesday seems to be the day where missions, strat runs, and steamrolling gets set aside for the biggest furball of the week, and folks like it. :aok
It's kind of like a Aces High "Sunday"...may I quote the BibleOfHT? Book of Titanic, Chapter 2
verse 4 "And yea, on da thurd day of da week theyy stoppd all of teh misshuns and restedd. Lert there be large map!
verse 5 "Nay, no one toolsheddeth, and teh multiturd furballeth, and yeay, teh fun wuz had by all. Amen"
ROX
-
I am sooo sick of not being organized! I hate how people log on to this game and fly wherever they want, however they want. Someone takes time to organize a well planned mission and not everyone will join it. Idiots!!!! But.... I have a solution (your welcome). I am forming a new country, we are going to be the Queens! Not only will we do what our Queen leader tells us, but we will look fabulous while doing it! Plus, as an added bonus you will get to choose the small dog of your choice to fly with you. But wait, that's not all. You will also get a free subscription to "O" magazine to keep up on all of the important issues on those long flights. So put down your brains, pick up your dog's, and come fly with the Queens!
This offer not valid in Rhode Island
Can we only imaginge that Eddie Izzard and Richard Simmons are the biggest squad leaders?? :confused: :O
(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/richard_simmons.jpg)
:lol :lol :lol
ROX
-
I am sooo sick of not being organized! I hate how people log on to this game and fly wherever they want, however they want. Someone takes time to organize a well planned mission and not everyone will join it. Idiots!!!! But.... I have a solution (your welcome). I am forming a new country, we are going to be the Queens! Not only will we do what our Queen leader tells us, but we will look fabulous while doing it! Plus, as an added bonus you will get to choose the small dog of your choice to fly with you. But wait, that's not all. You will also get a free subscription to "O" magazine to keep up on all of the important issues on those long flights. So put down your brains, pick up your dog's, and come fly with the Queens.
<--- signed up
It's kind of like a Aces High "Sunday"...may I quote the BibleOfHT? Book of Titanic, Chapter 2
verse 4 "And yea, on da thurd day of da week theyy stoppd all of teh misshuns and restedd. Lert there be large map!
verse 5 "Nay, no one toolsheddeth, and teh multiturd furballeth, and yeay, teh fun wuz had by all. Amen"
ROX
AMEN ROX
-
The way I see it everyone has the right to play the way they want cause they are paying their own dime.
If I organize a mission and get good support I always say "thank you for the support" afterwards. If I get no support then I dont take it personal. If guys want to just furball its their right.
-
Simple question, why must we be so unorganized?
During titanic Tuesday, 150 some guys on and we nothing. Mission posted earlier 9 guys joined. There was 109 knights playing. Think hi-tech should rank loyalty. Sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
Despite the anti-whine responses, and the anti-anti-wine responses, except for your solution, which is not tenable, when a country does get itself organized, or usually 2 both close to a reset, what transpires can be VERY much fun.
To answer your question, there's 2 things at work: ignorance and preference. Many folk like to pass their time enjoyably furballing. Many also haven't experienced what an organized operation can achieve.
It is what it is.
A lot of fun to be had when you hook up with folks who share the same goals when flying -- be it fur, sheds, or territory.
-
Simple question,why must we be so unorganized? Titanic tuesday 150 some guys on and we nothing.Mission posted earlier 9 guys joined it,there was 109 knights on. Think hi tech should rank loyalty,sure is harder staying a loyal countrymen then landing kills.
uummm.........
nevermind
-
The way I see it everyone has the right to play the way they want cause they are paying their own dime.
If I organize a mission and get good support I always say "thank you for the support" afterwards. If I get no support then I dont take it personal. If guys want to just furball its their right.
THIS gets an amen!
ROX
-
I was just thinking about posting something similar. I don't really understand why people don't want to coordinate. I find nothing more immersing than flying in formation or a formation of bombers going NOE to their target.
Since I have flown with a squad now I find it boring flying around aimlessly with no goal in mind. I find it much more interesting and quite intense at times flying with people and coordinating for a cause.
So I recommend every one join missions. Pick a mission leader and execute a plan. Much more fun...
-
Ok, if you do not enjoy reading my sermonizing pontifications stop reading now. I am actually glad this got posted in the forums as my fingers grow weary of typing this almost everyday in-game.
AH is a game, but most of us work for a living. Work is generally very organized as your actions are largely prescribed by your 'superiors'. Once organization in a game becomes mandatory it ceases to become a game, it becomes unpaid work. Some people enjoy the rigid structure of missions, some just want to get organized now and then as a change of pace, some just want to do their own thing, trusting their own judgement to apply themselves where most useful. Once coercion is applied at any level to attempt to make people organize against their will, when they otherwise would not be inclined to do so, you make the game less fun for them. If you make the game less fun for enough people on your team often enough, guess what will happen? They will either leave your team, not play at all, or squelch you.
In AH we have many types of players at various levels of skill and experience with affinities toward a wide variety of gameplay modes. It is human nature to be pragmatic, left to their own devices people tend to apply themselves in such a way as to achieve a goal while getting the most personal satisfaction from the experience. So, in essence people are motivated by two things, goals and personal satisfaction aka. fun. Your goals are not likely my goals just as your idea of fun may not be my idea of fun. To be ultimately successful organization in the game happens when you collect together people with the same goal and the same idea of fun. Trying to organize people with entirely different goals and ideas of fun is like herding cats and will inevitably destroy any sense of continuity of effort you may have enjoyed.
For the purpose of this post I am going to use the following comparison between Rooks and Bishops to illustrate my point. I am not trying to malign either one, but as the OP's comments are directed toward Knights, I feel this is the best way to clarify the point objectively.
Bishops tend to organize a lot. That organization tends to be applied in a few consistant ways. All of those applications almost exclusively involve the use of an overwhelming force against a nonexistent or relatively insignificant defense. Very rarely do Bishops apply organization against an airfield with significant defense except when they are losing a fight and bring a large contingent of heavy bombers at high altitude to drop the hangers. If significant defense arrives or materializes at an airfield prior to affecting capture Bishops tend to evaporate only to manifest at an undefended field elsewhere shortly thereafter...
Rooks tend to not be strategically organized. Rooks tend to favor large fights within which they cooperate only on the tactical level. Efforts to capture fields tend to precipitate, almost accidentally, from the outcome of fights in a relatively unorganized way. Rooks are attracted to furballs, as more Rooks enter the fray the fight pushes toward the enemy field, eventually the furball is essentially won and CAP is in place. Once this happens the fighter pilots who are so inclined, with nothing to kill, land and come back heavy with ordnance or troops to help affect capture. Once that base is captured the fight progresses to the next field in a logical progression or to another burgeoning fight on the map and the process continues.
As you can see both countries are motivated by different goals. Bishops tend to be motivated by the goal of affecting the capture of as many fields per unit time as possible which requires organization. While Rooks are motivated by participating in the most enthralling furball possible which does not necessarily require organization. Both countries end up achieving inadvertent secondary goals which serve to ameliorate the potential dissatisfaction of the minority who do not necessarily share the primary goal. Bishop furballers get to dispatch some defenders and Rook landgrabbers get to take some fields. But, for the most part, the primary collective goal dictates the behavior of the group and to a large degree determines its respective level of organization.
The Bishop approach is, in my opinion, the most efficient method of "winning the war". This is especially true on the HUGE maps with hundreds of fields which are impossible to adequately defend reactively. Fighting for bases on HUGE maps really isn't necessary especially with our current reset requirements, so furballing is actually a waste of time and resources from this perspective. To "win the war" you must simply take their fields faster than they can take yours or get their own back. This works for Bishops as the majority of their players share the primary goal of "winning the war". The organization toward that end that they achieve is predicated upon that fact. This is what most Bishops find fun.
Rooks on the other hand are motivated by fighting. There are a few pure "win the war" types on Rooks just as there are a few pure furballers on Bishops. But, for the most part Rook's primary goal and fun-factor is derived from fighting and winning air battles. If the war happens to be won in the process, so be it, but that is not the primary concern. Rooks will often verbally lynch a friendly who drops the fighter hangers or a CV at a good furball even if Rooks are losing the fight at that particular time, even if it ultimately results in the capture of the enemy field. This would be considered ridiculous on Bishops, the same person would likely be heralded as a hero.
Now, let's take for granted I am oversimplifying things for the purpose of contrast. But, it should be readily apparent to any thinking person that trying to organize Rooks to achieve the "win the war" goal they do not ubiquitously share would be futile. It would be just as futile as demanding Bishops suddenly denounce the milk-hording of fields in favor of protracted 5 hour furballs for their own sake. Over-time, human nature brings together people who share the same goals and find the same things fun. If you do not share the same goals as another the surest way to piss them off and alienate yourself is to try to superimpose your goals and ideas of fun upon them. I would even go so far as to say this would make them even more resistant to your ideas or pleas for help. So, if you can't force people to organize to achieve your goals and that ruins your fun-factor you only have two viable options....
1) Switch teams to one that embodies the same goals and ideas of fun.
2) Get creative and find ways to fullfill yourself in a symbiotic way, establishing an ancillary niche for yourself and the like-minded minority that does not require universal approval or participation.
Now applying this to the OP's lambasting of Knights. As a Muppet I fly for the Knights a lot. The Knights are a country in constant flux, they are an ever-changing mixing pot of styles and people. Unlike Bishops and Rooks there is no predominance of one type of player or another. This is what makes Knights a lot of fun but also potentially frustrating. Knights are full of people, more so than the other two countries, that are willing, able and enjoy playing in different modes. As they do not tend to typecast themselves as a furballer, buffer, GV'er etc they are extremely adaptable and dynamic, but also the least focused for the same reasons. Organizing Knights is hard for two main reasons...
1) They have the widest diversity of goals and 'fun-factors'
2) They don't have enormous squads like Bishops do that tend to create cohesiveness of effort.
But, as I mentioned earlier, human nature makes people pragmatic. This pragmatism combined with the Knights diversity of talent individually and collectively makes them indomitable and very unpredictable to fight against. Unlike Bishops and Rooks that tend to behave in a certain predictable way, you never know what Knights will do. So, in a very real way rigidly organizing Knights would destroy the very thing that makes them unique, fun and a challenge to play against.
-
Titanic Tuesday is the day that the Pigs tend to run fighter sweeps or get into extended GV battles. As others have said before, there really is no need to go on attack for territory on TT. We consider Titanic Tuesday a day off to kill, maim, or destroy whatever makes you happy with little or no structure! :rock
-
All hail the Queen! (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/biz_050224think.jpg)
Won't you join my bloody mission?
-
:salute Zazen, well put.
-
:huh
I'm loyal to the furball and I've been dedicated to it for over 10 years. Isn't that enough?
Your also loyal to team switching!! :lol Stay Bish will ya!!!
-
All hail the Queen! (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/biz_050224think.jpg)
Won't you join my bloody mission?
JEBUS, UPTOWN...That's the THIRD monitor I spit Iced Tea on this week!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
ROX
-
Rox,
I totally forgot you are in Arkansas. Let's hook up bro. I believe I am 20 minutes away from you. Looked for me on line you killer. No Richard Simmons either...Goose :rock :rock :rock :aok
-
No problem...let's arrange on PM. I live off Airport road in HS, about a mile west of the MLK bypass and 6 blocks from Lake Hamilton.
Both of the pictures above...
To quote Ron White: "Things that make you go......bbbbbbblblblblblbllbl blblblblblblblblblblblblblblb lblbl."
Back on topic:
Mr original poster: except for Titanic Tuesday, (when everybody furballs) knights tend to furball. However, once they see that their bases are getting gobbled up like Pacman, it only takes someone to put a well thought out strategic mission together and advertise well and they will answer the call. I'd say read Zazen's post a couple of times then feel free to come fly with the Claim Jumpers, Richthofen II, Precision (+), or my squad for awhile and make an educated decision.
Please don't make a decision based on a day, a week, or even a month.
Once you fly with a group for awhile, they become almost like family. It might seem like a disfunctional family at times, but a family no less.
Good Luck!
ROX
EDIT: to fix all the derned typos!
-
NT
-
I can help take some ground sometimes, but I never join the missions. I just tag along or go there if i see a big red bar :) Dont feel the need to go in missions were some little general is telling me what to pork or not to pork to get the place done. One thing is for sure, and that is that if i am over an enemy field and have some eggs I will bomb whatever a little general tells me NOT to bomb. Im not a total arse though.. I will still clear his six if he gets into trouble :D
Effective base captures used to be fun for me many years ago when it usually meant a fight would get going and maps got reset after war win to ANOTHER map hehe. Now i just enjoy the fights and have fun :)
-
I think coordinated operations add another element which I like. It is difficult enough to look after yourself and it increases the difficulty if your also looking out for a team mate.
-
It seems like all the missions ran by people that know what their doing anymore are NOE. I hate NOE missions. :salute
-
Yep!
-
I can help take some ground sometimes, but I never join the missions. I just tag along or go there if i see a big red bar :) Dont feel the need to go in missions were some little general is telling me what to pork or not to pork to get the place done. One thing is for sure, and that is that if i am over an enemy field and have some eggs I will bomb whatever a little general tells me NOT to bomb. Im not a total arse though.. I will still clear his six if he gets into trouble :D
Effective base captures used to be fun for me many years ago when it usually meant a fight would get going and maps got reset after war win to ANOTHER map hehe. Now i just enjoy the fights and have fun :)
Yup, like I've said in another thread not long ago. Participating in a mission allows the chance for a measure of collective success to be achieved and shared that an unskilled/inexperienced player is not likely to be able to achieve individually. This makes it very appealing to new players which is not necessarily a bad thing. This game has a phenomenally steep learning curve, being told what to do and how to do it, while being rewarded with geographic candy is a great way to learn the game. Being, what I call, a "mission lemming", as a new player, provides many opportunities to progress by virtue of emulation, imitation and the safety of many friendlies who have a vested interest in your continued survival for the good of the mission.
Most eventually grow weary of being tightly 'supervised' and restrained within a very narrow scope of gameplay and move on. But, some never do, and that's not a problem either unless they insist on the tyrannical, dictatorial imposition of their goals and ideas of fun upon others.
-
It seems like all the missions ran by people that know what their doing anymore are NOE. I hate NOE missions. :salute
NOE missions are completely reasonable from the perspective of the "win the war" types as they afford the greatest likelihood of affecting capture without having to actually fight any defenders. A rapid succession of NOE missions can also be run more quickly than traditional missions as no time-consuming alt'ing is required. This greatly enhances potential captures per unit time...
-
NOE missions are completely reasonable from the perspective of the "win the war" types as they afford the greatest likelihood of affecting capture without having to actually fight any defenders. A rapid succession of NOE missions can also be run more quickly than traditional missions as no time-consuming alt'ing is required. This greatly enhances potential captures per unit time...
I don't play at 2 to 5 AM local time (CDST) when the arenas are sparse.
Weekends and 11AM to 10 PM local time the LW arenas are teeming...especially in USA prime time.
Any mission I've been on during peak times as soon as the base starts blinking there are uppers...and as soon as any darbar appears they start coming out of the barn like cockroaches when you kick a garbage dumpster. :)
All sides do NOE missions.
I hope the original poster finds a home somewhere, and doesn't base his experiences on such a short period of time.
And :salute Zazen.
ROX
-
I don't play at 2 to 5 AM local time (CDST) when the arenas are sparse.
Weekends and 11AM to 10 PM local time the LW arenas are teeming...especially in USA prime time.
Any mission I've been on during peak times as soon as the base starts blinking there are uppers...and as soon as any darbar appears they start coming out of the barn like cockroaches when you kick a garbage dumpster. :)
All sides do NOE missions.
I hope the original poster finds a home somewhere, and doesn't base his experiences on such a short period of time.
And :salute Zazen.
ROX
Do you find many spies on at those times?
-
Titanic Tuesday is the day that the Pigs tend to run fighter sweeps or get into extended GV battles. As others have said before, there really is no need to go on attack for territory on TT. We consider Titanic Tuesday a day off to kill, maim, or destroy whatever makes you happy with little or no structure! :rock
I agree, best day for furballs. No real reason to take real estate on TT.
-
I was just thinking about posting something similar. I don't really understand why people don't want to coordinate. I find nothing more immersing than flying in formation or a formation of bombers going NOE to their target.
Since I have flown with a squad now I find it boring flying around aimlessly with no goal in mind. I find it much more interesting and quite intense at times flying with people and coordinating for a cause.
So I recommend every one join missions. Pick a mission leader and execute a plan. Much more fun...
I agree with you. I have fun when none of my squaddies are on, but it's much more fun when I'm either with them or in a well organized mission.
As for the kinghts, it seems like we either are losing the war, or we are beating the crap out of everyone else.
-
I was just thinking about posting something similar. I don't really understand why people don't want to coordinate. I find nothing more immersing than flying in formation or a formation of bombers going NOE to their target.
Since I have flown with a squad now I find it boring flying around aimlessly with no goal in mind. I find it much more interesting and quite intense at times flying with people and coordinating for a cause.
So I recommend every one join missions. Pick a mission leader and execute a plan. Much more fun...
I also agree. Even if it not a posted mission, but an in-squad ( new word?) mission or like we do when the JUGS get together. Gather intel, pick a target, get the right planes, and perform the operation. Anything from fighter sweep in D-11's to base taking in D-47's or N's. I think it's an unwritten rule that we will NEVER go NOE. One time we were in 11's on a fighter sweep, got into formation, broke the dar ring, looped around till enemy dar equaled ours, gave them time to get to alt and then engaged. Teamwork in any fashion is what makes this game uber fun.
-
I disagree with zazen. All 3 countries are about the same.
-
Personally its the squad thing that works for me - when we get 4 or more on, we wing up and try and cause as much chaos as we can. We do the base capture thing if we can find one that has uppers (waaay more fun to actually fight for it) Recently we captured with just 3 of us on - 1 x 110, 1 x tempest and 1 with troops - I had to make multiple runs in the 110 to take town down, Bruv was engaging everything with his temp, and Stu ran troops - there was no way we should have taken the base, but we did - and had fun doing so.
All countries to me seem the same, same gripes, same methods - not really found 1 that was different to any of the others - it seems to depend who's online and when.
If I'm flying alone, I'll up wherever needs defending/attacking etc - much prefer fights to come to me, unless I go out and pick one.......which generally ends up with me dying, but I'm having fun with it either way.
YMMV,
<S>
Wurzel
-
Personally its the squad thing that works for me - when we get 4 or more on, we wing up and try and cause as much chaos as we can. We do the base capture thing if we can find one that has uppers (waaay more fun to actually fight for it) Recently we captured with just 3 of us on - 1 x 110, 1 x tempest and 1 with troops - I had to make multiple runs in the 110 to take town down, Bruv was engaging everything with his temp, and Stu ran troops - there was no way we should have taken the base, but we did - and had fun doing so.
All countries to me seem the same, same gripes, same methods - not really found 1 that was different to any of the others - it seems to depend who's online and when.
If I'm flying alone, I'll up wherever needs defending/attacking etc - much prefer fights to come to me, unless I go out and pick one.......which generally ends up with me dying, but I'm having fun with it either way.
YMMV,
<S>
Wurzel
What ^^^^^ he said can be a lot of fun.
ROX
-
I also agree. Even if it not a posted mission, but an in-squad ( new word?) mission or like we do when the JUGS get together. Gather intel, pick a target, get the right planes, and perform the operation. Anything from fighter sweep in D-11's to base taking in D-47's or N's. I think it's an unwritten rule that we will NEVER go NOE. One time we were in 11's on a fighter sweep, got into formation, broke the dar ring, looped around till enemy dar equaled ours, gave them time to get to alt and then engaged. Teamwork in any fashion is what makes this game uber fun.
The "in squad" missions will work the best. Regardless of the numbers and opposition any coordinated group of 6 can take a base in 20-30 minutes IF they can work everything by the numbers. Obviously once you miss a single element then the domino's start to fall and it all goes south....
-
Zazen you write very well. I wish I had such a talent. I just can't accept your characterization of the different "types" of people that comprise each of the 3 countries.
From your well written post you would have me believe that the people in each "country" have different values and ways of doing things maybe even different thought values. That perhaps the citizens of these countries have different cultures and that explains why they all behave differently.
I would rather think that all three countries behave exactly the same way. Maybe it depends who is observing the behavior and makes note of it at the time.
As I said my writting on BBS's is horrible so I hope at least you can decipher what I typed. :)
Or maybe I'm just flat wrong and all Rooks really are alt monkeys. ;)
-
It seems like all the missions ran by people that know what their doing anymore are NOE. I hate NOE missions. :salute
Not all.
-
I disagree with zazen. All 3 countries are about the same.
I agree...I have been Bish. since day one. Never saw a need to change. Being what human nature is, I believe all the countries, for the most part, are going to be the same.
I have been alone at a Vehicle Base many of times when the Nits and Rooks bring wave after wave of bombers just to take a single Vehicle Base. This is not a whine, because its all part of the game, but it just goes to show all countries take advantage of non or lightly defended bases.
Fred
-
bahh loyalty...should be forced to fly with lowest number side upon logon. :aok
-
Personally its the squad thing that works for me - when we get 4 or more on, we wing up and try and cause as much chaos as we can. We do the base capture thing if we can find one that has uppers (waaay more fun to actually fight for it) Recently we captured with just 3 of us on - 1 x 110, 1 x tempest and 1 with troops - I had to make multiple runs in the 110 to take town down, Bruv was engaging everything with his temp, and Stu ran troops - there was no way we should have taken the base, but we did - and had fun doing so.
All countries to me seem the same, same gripes, same methods - not really found 1 that was different to any of the others - it seems to depend who's online and when.
If I'm flying alone, I'll up wherever needs defending/attacking etc - much prefer fights to come to me, unless I go out and pick one.......which generally ends up with me dying, but I'm having fun with it either way.
YMMV,
<S>
Wurzel
That take was a complete farce :lol. I would have rated it as a 1% success rate but somehow we did it. Secondly the 15 or so nits against 4 guys in around the base couldnt locate and kill a goon and were too busy chasing my Temp for 10 minutes. Even when wurzel popped the last building he had 3 guys on his 110. Now I don't care much for the land grab but when the ack turns on that many guys I can hear their range vox "WTF they took it!" as our new shiny ack tears them all a new one :)
-
bahh loyalty...should be forced to fly with lowest number side upon logon. :aok
You call it loyalty, I call it too lazy to change. :D
Fred
-
Zazen you write very well. I wish I had such a talent. I just can't accept your characterization of the different "types" of people that comprise each of the 3 countries.
From your well written post you would have me believe that the people in each "country" have different values and ways of doing things maybe even different thought values. That perhaps the citizens of these countries have different cultures and that explains why they all behave differently.
I would rather think that all three countries behave exactly the same way. Maybe it depends who is observing the behavior and makes note of it at the time.
As I said my writting on BBS's is horrible so I hope at least you can decipher what I typed. :)
Or maybe I'm just flat wrong and all Rooks really are alt monkeys. ;)
Thank-You kindly for the compliment. I truly enjoy writing, especially about things I enjoy or believe in. Keep in mind that, although I may sound like I am trying to persuade you to my point-of-view, really what I want to do is encourage intelligent debate especially if the topic is contentious. As I told Corky yesterday in the MA, "Whether a debate has a definitive conclusion or not it always serves to promote mutual understanding". Even if you cannot be persuaded to adopt another stance you will at the very least glean insights into the other's perspective and in doing so develop respect and recognition of the potential validity of a point-of-view other than your own. Believe it or not this is a huge step in basic human relations, try to apply this same concept to group dynamics and understanding and it's a monumental undertaking.
I've always been a powerful observer. I spend a lot of time watching squadrons and the roster, filming people, watching the strategic map, watching how people go about attacking fields tactically and listening to communications. I will often compile statistics and try to amalgamate that data rationally with my personal observations into a trend or propensity that cannot simply be the result of random distribution. I am fascinated by the human dynamic of this genre, I even wrote a behavioral psychology paper on it when I was in college. So when I tell you the three countries retain and attract a core of players that have different goals and ideas of fun, I am not just saying that on a whim or from some isolated ivory tower of limited perspective.
Let's start with a little recent history, some readers were here for it, some weren't...
Several years ago Bishops were by far the most populated country. During most times during most days Bishops outnumbers Rooks 3:1 and Knights 2:1. They milk-horded everything, this went on unchecked, there were no ENY modifiers or any such contrivance back then, just the perks we have today. After 18 months of this Rooks decided they were going to prove a point. We created RJO and on one night through a network of Squadron CO's we got virtually every Rook on line, we had mission assignments by individual squadrons, and an overall CO.
Needless to say we totally creamed the Bishops who were quite unaccustomed to getting cakewalked. Immediately the Bishops pissing and moaning went up on the forums, little mention made of the fact Bishops have done this virtually everynight without having to even really organize it just by virtue of sheer numbers. Well, you may be able to guess the rest. RJO persisted in diluted form one Sunday a month for awhile until the deafening roar of whines on the BBS ultimately caused HTC to implement the ENY modifier we all love and enjoy today. Keep in mind while this was happening Bishops still retained much of their numerical superiority on every other night of the week, just not Sundays anymore as almost every Rook squadron changed their weekly squadnights to Sunday.
After some time things stabilized but the ENY modifier never really made people change countries that much all it did was make people LoGoff or suffer in a plane they would not normally choose to fly. Bish continued to be ultra-real estate junkies, Rooks continued to be die hard scrappers as the trial of fire of 18 months of being banged taught them how to be. Knights accrued those disenfranchised by the other two to add to the loyal core of squadrons transplanted from WB's and AW. Ever since the immediate fall-out of RJO and the ENY debacle the die was cast, the core of players and their approaches were affiliated with a certain country.
I am by no means saying every Bish is a X type player and every Rook is Y type player. That would be a gross oversimplification. What I am saying is it is really quite obvious sociologically that people with common goals tend to coalesce. The more time that passes the more true this becomes. AH is an air combat game with a social aspect, it is adversarialism in a rather pure form. So, with conflict and social bonds you can assume, just like in any other "closed" environment, group dynamics form which influences those associated within the group and any group or individual it interacts with.
I balk at using this example, but I can't think of a more appropriate one...
In prison, inmates of various races are initially randomly assigned to various areas and cells. Without conflict and socializing/communication that would probably stay the status quo. But once you collect individuals with different goals together, infuse the situation with conflict and provide a medium for discourse (socialization) random allocation no longer exists. An adversarial environment within the randomly allocated group with diverse goals causes those of the same races to break away from pack and band together as they presumably have similar goals for mutual protection, security and how to conduct business.
So, in AH there really is unique group dynamics associated with each country born by adversarliasm expressed through conflict and communicated socially. If WWII has taught us anything it is that group thinking is very effective at overwhelming a single individual's inhibitions. So, the group thinking core of each country exudes influence upon individuals or smaller groups within its domain. A lot like harmonic resonance theory those individuals will be drawn to the group dynamic if it resonates strongly with their own goals and ideas. The reverse is also true, those that have opposite goals and ideas will tend to be repelled and seek to join with others more closely attuned. The longer the group dynamic process continues the more strongly it resonates and attracts the like-minded while repulsing those not congruent, in this community it has been going on for 20 Years.
I have done my part to explain why, "Birds of a feather flock together". Some have said they do not believe this, that perhaps AH is an anomaly in the Universe whereby elements intrinsically bound by the fundamental forces of attraction do not seek to naturally congregate whereever possible to form a whole, but instead randomly distribute themselves homogeneously never to be drawn together again. Given the microcosmic to the macrocosmic truths and laws that bind all things in the universe I find it extremely hard to be persuaded the laws of the universe, perfect in every way from creation to now, failed in just this one regard. That somehow human souls and minds are not an abstract microcosmic representation of the macrocosmic universe, that like minds do not tend to associate and collaborate. Instead the 5,000+? AH'ers just randomly and arbitrarily associate with one country or another, no conscious decision making, just eenie, meanie, minie, moe?
Find me proof of that and I will explore that point-of-view more thoroughly with you.
Until then I am standing by empirical evidence that Bishops tend to milk-horde fields with "war winning" as their primary goal, Rooks tend to furball as air combat is their primary goal and Knights tend to apply themselves flexibly to maximally retrain the other two by reacting dynamically.
-
Until then I am standing by empirical evidence that Bishops tend to milk-horde fields with "war winning" as their primary goal, Rooks tend to furball as air combat is their primary goal and Knights tend to apply themselves flexibly to maximally retrain the other two by reacting dynamically.
Great post Zazen :aok.
Now you have to take into account that at certain times of the day all teams do a little bit of hording and mass attack. When a player is defending in these scenarios it stands out in their memory and somewhere deep inside this gets remembered and hate grows. When certain player participates in such a capture it is all around WTG's! and good teamwork this gets forgotten.
It is the die hard, country loyal players (usually squad CO's) that set these cultural trends and other newer players follow these ideals.
Naming them wouldnt be hard but you can stereotype certain areas of gameplay being "their own". There are no right or wrong ways of playing the game but then you get people objecting to certain styles and as Zazen points out with his Prison example. Posses grow, hate grows. Then there are the guys who play above this level and switch sides to balance the teams, find the fight, anti-horde, spy :t, These are usually furballers looking for some action and they are entitled to do that. The more you swap the more you realise that each country does get up to all kinds of different shanningans. The bottom line is we all play to have FUN! If your not having any you need to either jog on or change your priorities.
-
Zazen 13, I don't have your gift for writing, so forgive me, I am just a simple guy from simple times.
I don't know what went on 3 year ago, since I have only been with Aces High for about a year. In that year I have logged on nearly everyday. I watch the banter on 200 and read the forums daily. You make some valid points, but in the end I am not sure it still is not eenie - meanie - minie moe.
I wonder how many are like me who was arbitrarily assigned to Bishops when I signed up and saw no reason to change. I don't know if stats are kept showing this, but I would be curious what they would be if they are available.
Being a member of one of the biggest real estate taking squads in Aces High, you might be surprised that I really could care less about base taking. My CO, who I think is a great guy, likes doing that kind of thing, and since I am in the squad, I do join in on some missions, but many times I off on my own defending a base, or generally getting my arse kicked.
I keep hearing this talk about how the Bishop don't like to fight without the horde, but everyday I see Bishops fighting to defend bases being vastly out numbered by the enemy. I see Bishops flying or GVing to bases in ones and twos where the eny dar is across the sector. They may be going to pork, or maybe they are just going to get into a fight. I never really thought to ask them.
I still think that every country has players that like to take real estate, furball, GV, among other things. I think the Bishops have the reputation of real estate grabbing because we do have several players that like leading missions that accomplish that task, and they have become pretty good at it. I will agree from a post someone made earlier, that on many of these missions as soon as the bases flashes, the eny comes out in a swarm. Sometimes the bases are taken without resistance, but being at the other end of this, I have seen both the other countries take bases with no or little resistance.
I have not kept any statical evidence, nor have I tried to figure out why some do what they do. Heck I don't even remember who last killed me yesterday, or who I killed. Maybe I just like having fun, and don't worry about the rest of it. I think many share my opinion, but then again I have no evidence to back it up.
I had to look up the definition of empirical. :) I thought I knew what it meant, but wasn't sure, so I just have to leave it like this. I stand by empirical evidence that there is little difference between the three countries. Of course I state this with due respect to your opinion.
Fred
-
got to agree with the OP, havent seen a mission posted on nits for weeks apart from the odd noob miss (quick glance at fuel loadouts is a dead giveaway, my fav recently was a 1 sector "base take" with 4x mossies, small ammo, no ords and 100% fuel. with a goon :confused: )
btw nits had fun defending 152 for so long yesterday (my GV rank went from ~600 to ~60 :D)
-
did well to hold onto 152 for about 5 hours :D
after a couple of frustrating runs. many 190's high, running , not engaging etc etc. For such a huge dar was surprising to see the fight not coming to our field. was alot of fence sitting going on.
Seeing as nits were hellbent on defending 152, okllok did well and took 2 fields behind enemy lines. He did well at distracting some enemy. We proceeded to capture the entire island north.
Again a very nice map to fight over. hopefully it will be left up for the next 6 months until we are sick and tired of seeing it.
-
Zazen 13, I don't have your gift for writing, so forgive me, I am just a simple guy from simple times.
I don't know what went on 3 year ago, since I have only been with Aces High for about a year. In that year I have logged on nearly everyday. I watch the banter on 200 and read the forums daily. You make some valid points, but in the end I am not sure it still is not eenie - meanie - minie moe.
I wonder how many are like me who was arbitrarily assigned to Bishops when I signed up and saw no reason to change. I don't know if stats are kept showing this, but I would be curious what they would be if they are available.
Being a member of one of the biggest real estate taking squads in Aces High, you might be surprised that I really could care less about base taking. My CO, who I think is a great guy, likes doing that kind of thing, and since I am in the squad, I do join in on some missions, but many times I off on my own defending a base, or generally getting my arse kicked.
I keep hearing this talk about how the Bishop don't like to fight without the horde, but everyday I see Bishops fighting to defend bases being vastly out numbered by the enemy. I see Bishops flying or GVing to bases in ones and twos where the eny dar is across the sector. They may be going to pork, or maybe they are just going to get into a fight. I never really thought to ask them.
I still think that every country has players that like to take real estate, furball, GV, among other things. I think the Bishops have the reputation of real estate grabbing because we do have several players that like leading missions that accomplish that task, and they have become pretty good at it. I will agree from a post someone made earlier, that on many of these missions as soon as the bases flashes, the eny comes out in a swarm. Sometimes the bases are taken without resistance, but being at the other end of this, I have seen both the other countries take bases with no or little resistance.
I have not kept any statical evidence, nor have I tried to figure out why some do what they do. Heck I don't even remember who last killed me yesterday, or who I killed. Maybe I just like having fun, and don't worry about the rest of it. I think many share my opinion, but then again I have no evidence to back it up.
I had to look up the definition of empirical. :) I thought I knew what it meant, but wasn't sure, so I just have to leave it like this. I stand by empirical evidence that there is little difference between the three countries. Of course I state this with due respect to your opinion.
Fred
Actually, whether you realise it or not your personal experience related here proves my point. The fact that you have always been Bishop and never changed means that your perspective is not objective but subjective. I encourage you, if you are truly interested in exploring what we're talking about, to switch to Rooks or Knights for a week or two as an experiment. Take notice of how that perspective changes what you assumed to be true from the other vantage, especially of Bishops of whom your views are subjective. I think you will be amazed.
The large squadrons that you speak of that are led by a single minded CO's create country cohesiveness forming a group dynamic that is rather compelling and persuasive. It is human nature to want to be a part of something bigger than yourself. It's this universal aspiration to transcend the bonds and limitations of isolated individual potential that makes groups a powerful coercive force. You are personally ambivalent toward base capture yet you choose to participate in it to be considered part of the group.
I am by no means saying Bishops ONLY milk-horde, or Rooks ONLY furball. What we are speaking of here is the predominance of behavior, predominant to the point where it becomes a defining characteristic. This does not by any means require ubiquitous participation. All it requires is the preference, as a whole, for a group to behave in a certain predictable way that is unique in terms of frequency and differentiates it from the general behavior of other groups in congruous situations...I have always conceded that all teams do everything at one time or another, Rooks sometimes milk-horde, Bishops sometimes furball. What makes them unique and defines them is the propensity they respectively have to do those activities in a disproportionate way relative to other activities and each other.
-
Ran a mission the other day for Knights.
I was asked upon take off it was NOE.
"Naw" I said, "let 'em see us coming. It's more fun if they put up a fight".
Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that. It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base. I love a base capture that takes 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th efforts (5th, 6th, etc). I remember taking bases out of sheer determination alone.
I also miss the pure fighter sweeps that used to be much more common. I need to try and post more of those. Get 20 players in the same plane and run 'em right at the largest nme dar bar you can find.
As far as Knits are concerned, it really "depends" on who's on. In the past few weeks i've seen the Knits do incredibly well, and then the next day can't even get more than 2-3 to help me defend a field.
Having visited all the variouis countries recently, I agree that they are mostly the "same" but I ALSO agree with Zazens assesment. If you like large missions to capture real-estate, fly Bish. If you are wanting dogfights, go Rook.
Knits are somewhat of a mixed bag, and tend to be "reacting" to what the other two countries are doing more times than not.
Granted, there are exceptions to any rule, and there are times where all three a pretty much the "same" as far as game pley goes.
Great players on all countries. (and of course, many not so good...)
-
"Naw" I said, "let 'em see us coming. It's more fun if they put up a fight".
Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that. It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base.
During my 1st year in AH, Fairz and Rockstar would run missions frequently for the Bishops. This is a long time ago, so I maybe remembering incorrectly. But I don't recall numerous NOE missions as we do have today.
No doubt they did occur. I'm probably past recalling accurately.
But those missions were fun.
-
Found myself saying that a lot recently, and it didn't used to be like that. It USED to be you would run the mission smack into that large nme dar bar and fight it out for the base. I love a base capture that takes 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th efforts (5th, 6th, etc). I remember taking bases out of sheer determination alone.
I do not want to turn this into a map rant, but I would like to point out something here. Until the advent of HUGE maps and subsequently split LW arenas it was imperative to defend every base to the last or you would quickly find yourself circling the wagons at your HQ field. This is no longer true, especially on the HUGE maps. More often than not there are more fields than there are players in the arena, which I personally find completely ridiculous.
It boils down to a simple matter of mathematics and population density...Your average HUGE map has 200+ fields, your average small map has 40. If you populate both maps equally with 200 people, which tends to be about the average in the most populous of the two arenas over a 24 hour period, you get vastly different ratios of players to fields. Do not underestimate the impact this has on gameplay. There is a gigantic difference between a 1 to 1 ratio of players to fields and a 5 to 1 ratio.
The big reason horde-milking has become the staple of geographic domination is a direct result of these key ratios. Each base on a map with 40 fields is 5 times as important as a base on a map with 200 fields, therefore it logically deserves 5 times the attention and care from its owner and rightfully so. Conversely, because bases on large maps are individually almost insignificant a team bent on geographic domination must take a large number of them in rapid succession in order to have any real strategic impact on the enemy's position in terms of a reset. This is the basic recipe and reason for the predominance of milk-hording today.
On small maps the reverse is true from the perspective of defense. Losing just 5 fields on a small map could effectively cripple a country's position in terms of reset conditions and potentially put it's HQ at risk. So, it is critical to defend and hold each and every field with the utmost ferocity. Likewise, on a small map, the aggressors do not have "paths of least resistance" to fall back on if an attack on one field fails, therefore they must continue to press the attack with equal tenacity.
In my personal opinion, HUGE maps, followed by split LW arenas, in lowering population density, are largely to blame for the game's recession from its focus on actual air combat in the last few years.
-
spend a month on each chess piece and you'll see they are all the same in the end. Some toolshedders, some furballers, and some noobs.
-
Actually, whether you realise it or not your personal experience related here proves my point. The fact that you have always been Bishop and never changed means that your perspective is not objective but subjective. I encourage you, if you are truly interested in exploring what we're talking about, to switch to Rooks or Knights for a week or two as an experiment. Take notice of how that perspective changes what you assumed to be true from the other vantage, especially of Bishops of whom your views are subjective. I think you will be amazed.
The large squadrons that you speak of that are led by a single minded CO's create country cohesiveness forming a group dynamic that is rather compelling and persuasive. It is human nature to want to be a part of something bigger than yourself. It's this universal aspiration to transcend the bonds and limitations of isolated individual potential that makes groups a powerful coercive force. You are personally ambivalent toward base capture yet you choose to participate in it to be considered part of the group.
I am by no means saying Bishops ONLY milk-horde, or Rooks ONLY furball. What we are speaking of here is the predominance of behavior, predominant to the point where it becomes a defining characteristic. This does nch by any means require ubiquitous participation. All it requires is the preference, as a whole, for a group to behave in a certain predictable way that is unique in terms of frequency and differentiates it from the general behavior of other groups in congruous situations...I have always conceded that all teams do everything at one time or another, Rooks sometimes milk-horde, Bishops sometimes furball. What makes them unique and defines them is the propensity they respectively have to do those activities in a disproportionate way relative to other activities and each other.
You may have a love of writing, but you need to learn to simplify paragraphs into sentences. Writing for the sake of writing limits the number of folks who want to wade through the prose to find the "meat" of the posting. That being said....
You are greatly biased towards rooks. If you look at your stats you never fly bishop (i went back almost a year and only in 2/08 did you have 5 kills as a bishop). You dont fly bombers...you dont capture bases...
You and i have known each other "virtually" for a long time. I rarely see you as anything but a Rook and your posts tend to suggest only Rooks enjoy air combat. You neglect the fact that Blind BAts and LCA are big "real estate" squads who use NOE frequently. Many other rook squads (hells Angels, A8's, etc) base take as well. You seem confused by the fact that historically the Rooks HAVE attracted the "score" squads...and mistook that with true "furballing". I would suspect you consider yourself a furballer but MOST of us would not consider alt/e/picking in a typhoon/tempest/262 as "furballing". There is nothing wrong with that style....but it is what it is. In fact please feel free to name for me active ROOK furball squads...I really can't think of any...most true furball squads have no country affiliation anymore...and others just fell apart (which is shocking given that most of the "base taking squads" have survived.
The only human nature I see in action is more on the BBS than in the game. And that is the mistake of seeing things in only one light...
Your previous post suggests that missions are best suited for newbies who can't accomplish things alone. Perhaps those who don't join missions are actually the type of personality who requires instant gratification and doesn't like setting advanced goals for fear of failure? Perhaps they are the sort of people who can't "play with others" or who "needs a persona or attention to feel good about themselves" that isn't afforded by the anonymity of a mission??? That of course would be a generalization...but your posts seem full of them. I would suggest your point of view is hampered by the fact that you don't care for missions, so you view them in a negative light.
-
You are greatly biased towards rooks. If you look at your stats you never fly bishop (i went back almost a year and only in 2/08 did you have 5 kills as a bishop). You dont fly bombers...you dont capture bases...
You're making the erroneous assumption I have only ever used this one account. ;)
You and i have known each other "virtually" for a long time. I rarely see you as anything but a Rook and your posts tend to suggest only Rooks enjoy air combat. You neglect the fact that Blind BAts and LCA are big "real estate" squads who use NOE frequently. Many other rook squads (hells Angels, A8's, etc) base take as well. You seem confused by the fact that historically the Rooks HAVE attracted the "score" squads...and mistook that with true "furballing". I would suspect you consider yourself a furballer but MOST of us would not consider alt/e/picking in a typhoon/tempest/262 as "furballing". There is nothing wrong with that style....but it is what it is. In fact please feel free to name for me active ROOK furball squads...I really can't think of any...most true furball squads have no country affiliation anymore...and others just fell apart (which is shocking given that most of the "base taking squads" have survived.
A) I've said several times there's people on every team who do other things besides the activities that defines team generally, they are just the minority.
B) I never, ever fly a 262. And, I don't want to get too personal here, but for a guy that exploits the "hyper-modelled" La7 to the maximum possible conceivable extreme, specifically because, as you've freely and publicly admitted, it's an incredibly easy bird to be successful with in the MA, you really don't have much room to be a style/plane choice critic.
C) Your squad and your 'sister' squad have the majority of the 'score dweebs' currently AND are also incidentally the largest perpetrators of milk-hording fields by faaaaar.
D) There's a HUGE difference between a squadron that usually captures bases in the orthodox way of fighting for them periodically on their squadnight and one that orchestrates lengthy milk-hording marathons as a way of life.
E) Your definition of furballing is too rigid, I think you are mistaking the term furball for stallfight. Instead try air combat.
Your previous post suggests that missions are best suited for newbies who can't accomplish things alone. Perhaps those who don't join missions are actually the type of personality who requires instant gratification and doesn't like setting advanced goals for fear of failure? Perhaps they are the sort of people who can't "play with others" or who "needs a persona or attention to feel good about themselves" that isn't afforded by the anonymity of a mission??? That of course would be a generalization...but your posts seem full of them. I would suggest your point of view is hampered by the fact that you don't care for missions, so you view them in a negative light.
A) Do you seriously believe 50 people head-out to capture a series of undefended fields because they are NOT afraid of failure? Or a single fighter pilot heads into a red cloud of enemy because he IS afraid of failure? Get real...
B) I never said missions are best suited for newbies. I said newbies are attracted to missions because they offer structure, an opportunity to learn from others in relative safety and a far better chance to attain some measure of success than they likely could venturing off alone...
C) I have nothing against missions at all. But, as Lute pointed out there are nowadays pretty much only three types of missions being run which was not always the case...
1) High alt frame rate killing buff spam missions that flatten the entire field, usually to kill a furball that that country was losing.
2) The famous and overused 50 jabo's swarming an undefended field, vulching with 10:1+ odds the few defenders that can react in time or evaporating altogether in order to instead attack another undefended field if stiff resistance manages to manifest prior to capture.
3) The NOE mission where the entire premise is based on attacking an undefended field with overwhelming force in relative secret to minimize the chance of actually having to fight for it at all.
-
You may have a love of writing, but you need to learn to simplify paragraphs into sentences. Writing for the sake of writing limits the number of folks who want to wade through the prose to find the "meat" of the posting. That being said....
.
Ok, you are being kind of obnoxious here, but I'll play along. If I were writing an encyclopedia with the goal of simply disseminating information I would write in a succinct and perfunctory fashion. The purpose of my writing here is to entice from others creative and well-thought out debate by painting pictures, making analogies and illustrating as colorfully as possible my salient ideas. To write about abstract ideas in the same fashion as an encyclopedia entry would be about as entertaining to read as stereo instructions.
-
To be honest it`s a little much to read and quite lengthy,I`d bet alot of guys have no idea what half those words even mean. I wonder about a few but get the idea :salute
-
I don't have time to read all Sandra Brown series of novels, but looks like nothing new ! Zazen bashing bish style of playing, and just trying to compensate and hide his shy and gutless style of playing : hiding in field gun mostly, some safe mode BZ once in a while and 6 years of whines without growing.
If all the rooks would fight so brave,the map would reset every 30 min.
-
I don't have time to read all Sandra Brown series of novels, but looks like nothing new ! Zazen bashing bish style of playing, and just trying to compensate and hide his shy and gutless style of playing : hiding in field gun mostly, some safe mode BZ once in a while and 6 years of whines without growing.
If all the rooks would fight so brave,the map would reset every 30 min.
Coming from the sovereign Lord of the milk-horde queens in his super-sonic 262/163 I take this as the highest possible compliment ... :rofl
Oh, and by the way, I suppose you missed the part where I said, "Bishops have mastered the most efficient way to "win the war". That's a far cry from bashing Bishops. ;)
-
Kumbaya, mi lord!
-
To be honest it`s a little much to read and quite lengthy,I`d bet alot of guys have no idea what half those words even mean. I wonder about a few but get the idea :salute
Yup, I am not writing for the unwashed masses necessarily. I am trying to appeal to people that like to intelligently debate the nuanced abstracts of our game. Not fling poo like a few sour grapes who's exposed nerves have been struck are starting to do in this thread now...;)
I have a sneaking suspicion this thread is about to be "milk-horded" by the same folks that do so in the MA, a call to arms must have been sent. The ring-leaders have already started to show up, the plebes will surely follow in short order...:aok
-
Bish have better overall squads that work pretty well together in all aspects of the game.
-
Bish have better overall squads that work pretty well together in all aspects of the game.
If by "better" you mean "bigger" then yes you're 100% correct...
"Quantity has a quality all its own.."
-
let me recap this thread "KNIGHT 4 T W, W3 R TEH 1337"
someone translate that for the none gamer generation please!
:aok
-
Bish have better overall squads that work pretty well together in all aspects of the game.
thats one of the funniest things i have read in a long time :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :D
NOT
-
Bish have better overall squads that work pretty well together in all aspects of the game.
All "countries" have excellent squads. I have been Bishop most of my time here so my perspective is a bit narrow, but most Bishop squads are indeed good, and believe in all around fun above all else. That's what the core of the game is in its many forms.
-
(June 3, 1944, London)
IKE: "Orderly, Take a message"
Orderly: "Yes Sir...to whom do you want it sent, sir?"
IKE: "Adolph Hitler, Leader of the Third Reich"
Orderly: "Yes sir, go ahead sir"
IKE:
"Dear Adolf:
How's Trix? Sorry to hear about the gas...I was going to have the 8th Air Force drop you some Bean-o, but I was afraid you wouldn't accept it. Still sore about the Jessie Owens thing, huh? Well, you'll get over it.
I just wanted you to know that the Allied forces under my command will commence "THE" invasion of Europe, with Allied forces from a number of countries, both Allied and currently occupied in three days hence. Even sooner..on the 5th...if the weather holds, but definitely by the 6th.
We've left all of your radar installations up so you can see us coming, because we love a good fight and don't need the element of surprise. Yeah, I learned all about the importance element of surprise as a tactic in OTS, but--awww, I'd be lame for using it with all these troops I have. We'll be parking about 5,000 ships in the channel off Normandy, between Ouirestreham and Les Rivieres, and dropping paratroopers the night before to secure those strategic targets in the rear areas you don't think we know about.
We were going to knock out the strategic targets in the area, like train bridges, troop concentrations, ammo dumps, and fuel dumps, but that would be lame.
Anyway, I just wanted you to know well in advance so you could throw up every recource you could and possibly totally mess up our objective because I thought it was only fair, and I'd be lame for not doing so.
Have a great day! Hug Eva for me! :aok
Tell Goering I said hey, and to lay off the double-cheeseburgers! :rofl
Hugs & kisses, IKE
Dwight David Eisenhower, US Forces, Europe, Commanding"
IKE" "How's that sound?"
Orderly: "Sounds great sir, do you want me to read it back to you, sir?"
IKE: "No....I've...well...let me look at that son"
(Orderly hands Ike hand written note. Ike re-reads carefully)
Orderly: "Do you want this sent over open channels, Sir?"
(Eisenhower keeps reading, then rubs his head, then puts his hat back on)
Orderly: "Sir?"
IKE: "Naw....throw this in the fire son....
Note to all commanders...We're doing this one.....NOE".
ROX
ROX
-
lame.
as Hitech has said, this is a game, not war.
-
lame.
as Hitech has said, this is a game, not war.
I'm curious about the above Hitech statement.
If its not a war, then why does the text buffer say "you have won the war" when you retain 90% of your own bases and capture 40% of the other two countries (chess pieces) bases?
Just a thought...
Fred
-
I'm curious about the above Hitech statement.
If its not a war, then why does the text buffer say "you have won the war" when you retain 90% of your own bases and capture 40% of the other two countries (chess pieces) bases?
Just a thought...
Fred
The second we start really dying, it will become a war. Until then, and as long as we get unlimited lives, planes and have choices as to how we play, it will remain a game.
Trying to tie in actual war to this, is really just silly
In the end, there is only one king in the game, and thats HTC. The rest of us are just pawns that get to have fun within the framework of the game presented to us by HTC
-
The second we start really dying, it will become a war. Until then, and as long as we get unlimited lives, planes and have choices as to how we play, it will remain a game.
Trying to tie in actual war to this, is really just silly
In the end, there is only one king in the game, and that's HTC. The rest of us are just pawns that get to have fun within the framework of the game presented to us by HTC
Slow day at work, so I got curious again. Looked up the definition of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War), also checked Webster's Dictionary. Nothing in the definition about killing or dying. Actually the definition actually reflects what goes on in Aces High everyday.
Way tooooo much time on my hands.... :)
Fred
-
"War is any large scale, violent conflict."
Aces High is hardly large scale or violent.
-
"War is any large scale, violent conflict."
Aces High is hardly large scale or violent.
The Cold War was largely non-violent...
-
Just pulled what he linked to.
-
"War is any large scale, violent conflict."
Aces High is hardly large scale or violent.
This could be a never ending "war" :) with words, but I guess it depends on what you consider violent. Blood on the cockpit window, ripping a plane apart with 20mm, dropping a 1000 pound egg on a GV that causes it to blow up. Some games have a violence rating because of this.
Don't get me wrong. I think Aces High is just a game, and that all it is, but in its basic form it still is a war between individuals, countries ( chess pieces), or whatever to accomplish whatever mission they are trying to achieve. The only benefit is you don't really die as in a real conflict, and equipment is free.
The only point I am trying to make here is I think some people, not just in this thread, try to apply reality to just a game. You may want to call Aces High a WW II flight simulator, where others consider it a war game. I don't think either is right or wrong, just how people interpet it differently.
OK, I'm done. I not trying to start anything, just felt like throwing some thoughts out there. I hope I did not in any any way offend anyone, if I did I apologise.
Still have toooo much time on my hands at work,
Fred
-
Think of it not so much as a war but as a competition called a war for the sake of... immersion I guess. :)
-
Think of it not so much as a war but as a competition called a war for the sake of... immersion I guess. :)
I AGREE :aok
Fred
-
Slow day at work, so I got curious again. Looked up the definition of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War), also checked Webster's Dictionary. Nothing in the definition about killing or dying. Actually the definition actually reflects what goes on in Aces High everyday.
Way tooooo much time on my hands.... :)
Fred
Those of us have nothing to lose other then time in Aces High. No regimes change, no ethnic cleansing, no economies destroyed (although back in the pay by the hour Airwarrior days there may have been) I have yet to see a single cemetary. One thing I remember vividly from visiting Normandy were the military cemetaries every where you went. The blood isn't real in AH, niether are the planes or anything else beyond the people sitting at their computers.
It is a chance for a lot of cartoon pilots to pretend. I'm all for the immersion, the history etc. And if someone wants to go after 'winning the war', more power to em. To me it will just be a do-over as the war game never ends.
That being said, there are times in scenarios, snapshots or other 1 life events where I figure I'm as close as I'll ever get to imagining what the pilots I've read about all my life, were doing, and where I get sucked into the 'cockpit.' It's a great feeling but each time I come back to the reality that I really don't have a clue about what it was really like and that nothing in the game is real beyond the fun :)
-
Now the fun, thats very real. Not one of my friends serving or having served in Iraq will tell you war is fun. None of my grandfathers friends from the 97th Bomb Group / 341st Sqd. ever told me about how much fun flying through clouds of flack was on the way to the Ptolsti oil refineries was.
Try very hard to remember this is about the fun, not the war because it is a game, not war.
<S>
-
Try very hard to remember this is about the fun, not the war because it is a game, not war.
<S>
True.
It is very much a game. A game about war.
It's also one of the few games on the internet I know of where using actual tried & true military tactics really work.
May I quote General Nathan Bedford Forrest?:
"Hit 'em on the end" = Don't attack the center, attack on the flanks--and roll them up.
"Bring on the skeer" = Attack out of nowhere, show up unexpectedly
"Go on the big" = Bring overwhelming numbers to bear on an objective
While he's not exactly elequent, he does make a point. Tactics work. Many of us use them extensively.
Yes, Aces High is a game. (If anyone thinks it's a REAL war, counciling may be necessary).
If you educate yourself and learn military tactics not only on the small "squad" sized tactics but also the larger group/campaign tactics you will see that our little cartoon game has far more facets than you may have realized. Sure, it's a boatload of fun to hop in your favorite plane and enjoy a nice turnfight. It's also fun to get organized and work together as a team.
Find a country you like then find your nitch.
What do you do best? What is most fun to you?
Some players get on, are their own squad, and play for score/rank.
Some players get on and do 34 Million Bomber Damage Points a tour.
Some players get on and get 1,000+ fighter kills a tour
Some players get on and get 1,000+ attack kills a tour.
The poor guy who is the original poster probably still doesn't have an answer.
If you have to hop around from country to country you will still end up seeing that most countries are about the same....unless your idea of a dogfight at 34,0000' is fun--then join rooks (after you have gone through astronaut training). :) (JK) :lol
Again, chose your country and chose your nitch. It's all about having fun, and having a game that let's you mentally flash back to 1944 is very cool.
Knights DO get organized. And we DO join missions.
EDIT: We had a mission not long ago where we just swarmed a gv base with about 15 jeeps with troops. The enemy was so shocked they didn't know what to shoot at. We let our troops out then got into high gear and raced around the base while the troops ran. It was funny as heck! We took the base. Missions can be a hack of a lot of fun.
Missions and taking bases is so easy a caveman can do it. :aok
Thank you for your time.
ROX
Thank you Dale...great job! :aok
ROX
-
True.
It is very much a game. A game about war. no doubt its a game. more about air to air combat than total war (which is what ww2 was). all the side shows (base capture, gving, etc.) are to encourage air combat
It's also one of the few games on the internet I know of where using actual tried & true military tactics really work.
hmmm...there are plenty of them, and many that do a much better job of simulating the stratagies and tatics used, want a list?
May I quote General Nathan Bedford Forrest?:
"Hit 'em on the end" = Don't attack the center, attack on the flanks--and roll them up.
"Bring on the skeer" = Attack out of nowhere, show up unexpectedly
"Go on the big" = Bring overwhelming numbers to bear on an objective
While he's not exactly elequent, he does make a point. Tactics work. Many of us use them extensively.
the three you've selected seem to only encourage avoiding a real fight and stealing cartoon real estate. not exactly the reason many of us play the game.
Yes, Aces High is a game. (If anyone thinks it's a REAL war, counciling may be necessary). no argument here!
If you educate yourself and learn military tactics not only on the small "squad" sized tactics but also the larger group/campaign tactics you will see that our little cartoon game has far more facets than you may have realized. Sure, it's a boatload of fun to hop in your favorite plane and enjoy a nice turnfight. It's also fun to get organized and work together as a team.
Oh I've seen them all. All but the air to air combat have grown incredibly stale, repetative and boring. (well, i just suck at gving, now that the trees and bushes can't be made to disappear i've enjoyed it a bit again.)
Find a country you like then find your nitch. No thanks, I have friends on all the countries
What do you do best? What is most fun to you? Ruining silly toolshedders fun :D
Some players get on, are their own squad, and play for score/rank. the ranking/score system is silly and has never been a good indicator of skill in mine and many others opinions.
Some players get on and do 34 Million Bomber Damage Points a tour. wow, I hope they have time for some real life outside of toolshedding all month
Some players get on and get 1,000+ fighter kills a tour wow, either they are very good sticks or like to vulch
Some players get on and get 1,000+ attack kills a tour. see above
The poor guy who is the original poster probably still doesn't have an answer. I think many of us tried to explain a good way for him to find an answer (aka try the other chess pieces out and see there is no difference.)
If you have to hop around from country to country you will still end up seeing that most countries are about the same....unless your idea of a dogfight at 34,0000' is fun--then join rooks (after you have gone through astronaut training). :) (JK) :lol i've seen all flavors of chess piece in the AKAKoshpere
Again, chose your country and chose your nitch. It's all about having fun, and having a game that let's you mentally flash back to 1944 is very cool. no reason to tell him to not enjoy bouncing around from country to country or play style to play style either now is there?
Knights DO get organized. And we DO join missions. I know, i enjoy busting them up
Missions and taking bases is so easy a caveman can do it. :aok yup, must be why so few good sticks participate in them so often. (zing!)
Thank you for your time. the pleasure was all mine
My answer and counterpoint to each above. If I could summarize:
-No noticeable difference in the chess pieces
-This isn't anything like war
-Don't get too hung up on the cartoon real estate
-
May I quote General Nathan Bedford Forrest?:
"Hit 'em on the end" = Don't attack the center, attack on the flanks--and roll them up.
"Bring on the skeer" = Attack out of nowhere, show up unexpectedly
"Go on the big" = Bring overwhelming numbers to bear on an objective
While he's not exactly elequent, he does make a point. Tactics work. Many of us use them extensively.
the three you've selected seem to only encourage avoiding a real fight and stealing cartoon real estate. not exactly the reason many of us play the game.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
All three are examples of offensive tactics.
ROX
-
May I quote General Nathan Bedford Forrest?:
"Hit 'em on the end" = Don't attack the center, attack on the flanks--and roll them up.
"Bring on the skeer" = Attack out of nowhere, show up unexpectedly
"Go on the big" = Bring overwhelming numbers to bear on an objective
While he's not exactly elequent, he does make a point. Tactics work. Many of us use them extensively.
the three you've selected seem to only encourage avoiding a real fight and stealing cartoon real estate. not exactly the reason many of us play the game.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
All three are examples of offensive tactics.
ROX
ROX,
Maybe you should have used McClellan's Tactics instead :rofl
-
Is it me or did the last 6 pages have nothing to do with the knights?
-
Frankly I like to do it all, furball, take bases, gv, sit in manned ack (and not preach) and most of all I like to jabo.
I have no qualms with any type of mission. Whether doing a fighter sweep, gv raid or an in-your-face mission like Lute likes to do. Frankly if an enemy base is undefended that is not my fault. That is the fault of the enemy. About a campaign ago we took a base right from under the nose of the enemy. You have to admire the descipline that takes. I :salute those guys. Plane after plane went over us and not one person fired. When asked every one stopped.
If you don't like doing some of those things don't do them.
-
If you want to see unorganized, join whatever country you're on right now! The other countries are much more organized!
AMEN Brother!
-
The Cold War was largely non-violent...
I almost choked when I read this . . .
Sure hope you meant that tongue-in-cheek.
-
I almost choked when I read this . . .
Sure hope you meant that tongue-in-cheek.
Nahhhh! :P
-
Lol someone made a VERY good point on this thread, which I think can put an end to all the 'nanananana you attack undefended bases noe nanannaana' stuff.
If your base has no defenders, its your fault, not the person that wants to grab it.
Thats like.. oh man.. eureka!!!
Point nailed.
IN
-
You're making the erroneous assumption I have only ever used this one account. ;)
so you have a second account that only flies bish??? the country who plays the way you despise? I wonder what the purpose of that account would be?? :rolleyes:
A) I've said several times there's people on every team who do other things besides the activities that defines team generally, they are just the minority.
and as i've said you are verbosely clueless in your analysis
B) I never, ever fly a 262. And, I don't want to get too personal here, but for a guy that exploits the "hyper-modelled" La7 to the maximum possible conceivable extreme, specifically because, as you've freely and publicly admitted, it's an incredibly easy bird to be successful with in the MA, you really don't have much room to be a style/plane choice critic.
but i fly the la-7 INTO fights and don't hover over them trying to pick off guys defending a base...if you think i was being critical of the tiffie you are eloquently confused...i'll spell it out for you...the tiffie is NOT a furball plane...it is a big cannon plane that can't turn well....
C) Your squad and your 'sister' squad have the majority of the 'score dweebs' currently AND are also incidentally the largest perpetrators of milk-hording fields by faaaaar.
BOPs are "score dweebs"??? Please identify the "score dweebs" in our squad. And please tell me who our sister squad is that is a "score dweeb"??? You may want tro review scorepages before your next post.
D) There's a HUGE difference between a squadron that usually captures bases in the orthodox way of fighting for them periodically on their squadnight and one that orchestrates lengthy milk-hording marathons as a way of life.
Please link me to where "base taking the orthodox way is defined"
E) Your definition of furballing is too rigid, I think you are mistaking the term furball for stallfight. Instead try air combat.
I dont think any of the "furballers" would consider alt/e/picking as furballing. I think you may be trying to hard to have a definition that includes your method of fighting :D
A) Do you seriously believe 50 people head-out to capture a series of undefended fields because they are NOT afraid of failure? Or a single fighter pilot heads into a red cloud of enemy because he IS afraid of failure? Get real...
I think organization and leadership defines success...I think folks join missions because they like the increased success and it adds to their enjoyment of the game. I would say flying a high-alt plane in a pack and picking is more likely to suggest someone who has a true fear of failure... :devil
B) I never said missions are best suited for newbies. I said newbies are attracted to missions because they offer structure, an opportunity to learn from others in relative safety and a far better chance to attain some measure of success than they likely could venturing off alone...
C) I have nothing against missions at all. But, as Lute pointed out there are nowadays pretty much only three types of missions being run which was not always the case...
1) High alt frame rate killing buff spam missions that flatten the entire field, usually to kill a furball that that country was losing.
2) The famous and overused 50 jabo's swarming an undefended field, vulching with 10:1+ odds the few defenders that can react in time or evaporating altogether in order to instead attack another undefended field if stiff resistance manages to manifest prior to capture.
3) The NOE mission where the entire premise is based on attacking an undefended field with overwhelming force in relative secret to minimize the chance of actually having to fight for it at all.
-
Lol someone made a VERY good point on this thread, which I think can put an end to all the 'nanananana you attack undefended bases noe nanannaana' stuff.
If your base has no defenders, its your fault, not the person that wants to grab it.
Thats like.. oh man.. eureka!!!
Point nailed.
IN
dude...that makes too much sense!!!
The problem lies in that most of the folks who hate missions are not interested at all in organizing on a consistent basis to stop them. I love defending against missions...but you have to be willing to see your k/d drop quickly and "watch the map"...
So the problem is the guys who make missions that work consistently and easily...how dare they! :aok
-
dude...that makes too much sense!!!
The problem lies in that most of the folks who hate missions are not interested at all in organizing on a consistent basis to stop them. I love defending against missions...but you have to be willing to see your k/d drop quickly and "watch the map"...
So the problem is the guys who make missions that work consistently and easily...how dare they! :aok
The predominance and prevalence of Milk-Horde missions as a means to an end as of late is simply a result of the following...nothing more...nothing less...Eliminate the 200+ fields maps and bring back the 40'ish field maps and milk-hording all but ceases to exist.
I do not want to turn this into a map rant, but I would like to point out something here. Until the advent of HUGE maps and subsequently split LW arenas it was imperative to defend every base to the last or you would quickly find yourself circling the wagons at your HQ field. This is no longer true, especially on the HUGE maps. More often than not there are more fields than there are players in the arena, which I personally find completely ridiculous.
It boils down to a simple matter of mathematics and population density...Your average HUGE map has 200+ fields, your average small map has 40. If you populate both maps equally with 200 people, which tends to be about the average in the most populous of the two arenas over a 24 hour period, you get vastly different ratios of players to fields. Do not underestimate the impact this has on gameplay. There is a gigantic difference between a 1 to 1 ratio of players to fields and a 5 to 1 ratio.
The big reason horde-milking has become the staple of geographic domination is a direct result of these key ratios. Each base on a map with 40 fields is 5 times as important as a base on a map with 200 fields, therefore it logically deserves 5 times the attention and care from its owner and rightfully so. Conversely, because bases on large maps are individually almost insignificant a team bent on geographic domination must take a large number of them in rapid succession in order to have any real strategic impact on the enemy's position in terms of a reset. This is the basic recipe and reason for the predominance of milk-hording today.
On small maps the reverse is true from the perspective of defense. Losing just 5 fields on a small map could effectively cripple a country's position in terms of reset conditions and potentially put it's HQ at risk. So, it is critical to defend and hold each and every field with the utmost ferocity. Likewise, on a small map, the aggressors do not have "paths of least resistance" to fall back on if an attack on one field fails, therefore they must continue to press the attack with equal tenacity.
In my personal opinion, HUGE maps, followed by split LW arenas, in lowering population density, are largely to blame for the game's recession from its focus on actual air combat in the last few years.[/quote}
-
dude...that makes too much sense!!!
The problem lies in that most of the folks who hate missions are not interested at all in organizing on a consistent basis to stop them. I love defending against missions...but you have to be willing to see your k/d drop quickly and "watch the map"...
So the problem is the guys who make missions that work consistently and easily...how dare they! :aok
I can only speak for myself and the 80th but the constant is watching the map and looking for the largest red dar bar and the smaller green dar bar. If you can get there in time to get up and get a little speed on the clock, you have a chance.
We switched from Rook to Bish the other night because there were no large dar bars. Once Bish we saw one and got there in time to put up a fight. All involved on both sides seemed to have a good time and they knew that all those low flying 38s were there to fight.
There is no joy in being in the large green dar bar in my opinion. If there is one misconception about 'furballers', its that upping into the crowd is not something they want to do. It's the preferred method I think. I don't know of any 'furballers' that are watching their stats. If they are, then they are kidding themselves about being furballers. What often happens however is the hangers get dropped and there isn't much you can do.
-
There is no joy in being in the large green dar bar in my opinion.
Quote for it's accurate, simplistic elegance.
-
If there is one misconception about 'furballers', its that upping into the crowd is not something they want to do. It's the preferred method I think. I don't know of any 'furballers' that are watching their stats. If they are, then they are kidding themselves about being furballers. What often happens however is the hangers get dropped and there isn't much you can do.
I agree 100%. There are a lot of guys who kid themselves about being furballers...as you stated in another thread...being a furballer and score/stat-pilot are two different things...
-
Whoa! An agreement! Let's let the thread die with that!
-
Throwing in my two cents here.
Knights ever never known to be team players, only as individuals although we are guilty time to time with some teamwork. One of best examples of teamwork/organzation was back when we were doing Alliance Missions despite the bish and rooks not liking it.
Even though I am quite loyal to the knights, let alone my squad. If none of my squadmates are on, I'll jump over to bishop or rooks for little while until my fellow pigs log in.
-
The predominance and prevalence of Milk-Horde missions as a means to an end as of late is simply a result of the following...nothing more...nothing less...Eliminate the 200+ fields maps and bring back the 40'ish field maps and milk-hording all but ceases to exist.
Absolutely. The large maps are too big unless it's Titanic Tuesday. Even then, most of us just fly into the biggest fight we can find and ignore the empty areas.