Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: nonaste on August 26, 2008, 09:59:53 AM
-
I just experienced a rather unbelievable outcome after flying a seafire IIc vs. a BF110.
This guy was about 1000' above me and dived on me. I immediately went into a very sharp left turning orbit, taking advantage of p factor and resulting tendancy towards yaw to port. This guy started to slowly fall in behind me. I increased the turn until I was "riding the tunnel" as you like to call it. The other pilot STILL managed to stay on my tail and shoot me down after following me in over a 360 degree turn.
How is this possible? The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33. The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened. This makes me wonder about flight modeling.
Can somebody explain this please.
-
was it a 110C? If it was then your mistaken. The 110C can pull harder in a flat turn than a seafire as long as the 110 has E to play with. There is nothing wrong with the modeling
-
was it a 110C? If it was then your mistaken. The 110C can pull harder in a flat turn than a seafire as long as the 110 has E to play with. There is nothing wrong with the modeling
Yep, It probably was. Not to mention that both the G & C perform admirably when lightened of ords and fuel.
-
Even a 110G turns well if it has lots of energy.
My advice is that you learn a better defensive tactic than a simple turn.
-
I'll bet you don't know how fast he was going.
It sounds like he was able to pop flaps and easily turn with and inside you while you pulled black-out Gs trying to avoid ... which did not allow the Spit to use it's best turn rate.
-
The limitation for both you and the 110 in this case was where blackout occurs, and, it happens to occur at the same place for both of you (7 G's). The plane's inherant capabilities had nothing to do with the outcome.
In a high speed, high G turn where you are riding the tunnel you are not turning at your minimum turn radius. Had you cut the throttle to avoid maximum G's you probably would have turned inside him easily.
In addition, he may have cut throttle to easily turn inside of you.
-
Sounds like Dastrdly was in that 110. The "C" model is a true sleeper as it can dogfight ,very well when in good hands, with a good bit of the other planes. Hope you took notes. :salute
LTARadio
-
Since you also describe the 110 as diving on you, he most likely was able to just cut inside of your turn for the angle.
ack-ack
-
Can somebody explain this please.
Poor choice of evasives. I don't mean to offend, so I apologize if you feel slighted. As AKAK mentioned, flat turning on a higher opponent is akin to surrendering if said opponent is even a decent aim. You are giving him the ability to simply roll for a lead shot. I'm surpirsed you lasted 360 degrees.
Against an aggressive, experienced opponent you would have been meat in a simple pass, in a matter of a couple of seconds.
-
Since you also describe the 110 as diving on you, he most likely was able to just cut inside of your turn for the angle.
ack-ack
My thoughts exactly!
While you are in the “tunnel” your periphery would be limited thus the 110 cutting into your turn radius w/o being seen.
You made a blind spot and you made your plane more presentable to a higher con.
-
Well guys, thanks for the input.
I came here after three years in Il-2. (I was intrigued by the concept of what AH offers.) I'm therefore used to different fms, among other things. So it simply means getting used to what is presented in AH, for better or for worse. They are two different games with different strengths and weaknesses and goals, I imagine.
-
I just experienced a rather unbelievable outcome after flying a seafire IIc vs. a BF110.
This guy was about 1000' above me and dived on me. I immediately went into a very sharp left turning orbit, taking advantage of p factor and resulting tendancy towards yaw to port. This guy started to slowly fall in behind me. I increased the turn until I was "riding the tunnel" as you like to call it. The other pilot STILL managed to stay on my tail and shoot me down after following me in over a 360 degree turn.
How is this possible? The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33. The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened. This makes me wonder about flight modeling.
Can somebody explain this please.
Angles!!!!!! If he is diving on you, he is not turning. He is just making small adjustments to his nose. Also, speed matters too. The faster plane, will go around on you even if you can turn tighter. He can cover more distance ;)
-
Poor choice of evasives. I don't mean to offend, so I apologize if you feel slighted. As AKAK mentioned, flat turning on a higher opponent is akin to surrendering if said opponent is even a decent aim. You are giving him the ability to simply roll for a lead shot. I'm surpirsed you lasted 360 degrees.
Against an aggressive, experienced opponent you would have been meat in a simple pass, in a matter of a couple of seconds.
I can't remember my exact altitude. It was below a thousand feet which doesn't leave much room for tactics, but one. I was descending even lower with the intent on sucking him into a turning fight where I would have ate his lunch, if this sim behaved similarly to Il-2, it doesn't. In Il-2 that is a sound tactic and would have been successful had he took the bait. No FW or BF is a match for a spit, (even the weakest which is the Mark V.B.) in low level turn fights. Here, however as I discovered yank and bank is a different art form with the FMs as presented. Live and learn, I suppose
-
I haven't played Il-2. Anyone care to elaborate on the differences?
-
In Il-2 that is a sound tactic and would have been successful had he took the bait. No FW or BF is a match for a spit, (even the weakest which is the Mark V.B.) in low level turn fights. Here, however as I discovered yank and bank is a different art form with the FMs as presented. Live and learn, I suppose
What you describe would have happened in IL2 if the other guy was any good, it's not a quirk of the AH flight model. You just ran into someone that was a little more proficient or lucky and was simply able to cut inside of your turn.
ack-ack
-
How is this possible? The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33. The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened. This makes me wonder about flight modeling.
Can somebody explain this please.
This is the most common miss-conception of turning ability. If you said you were riding the tunnel it means that you were pulling 6G. If the speed was high enough, any fighter can pull 6G and match your turn. The spit's turning advantage is at SLOW speed where the opponent (and usually you) cannot pull into the blackout.
Then there's the whole matter of geometry - you opponent will almost NEVER fly with you on the same circle. He will have a different radius and/or the circle centers will be displaced. In that case he can turn slower than you and still pull lead to shoot you down. This is how fast, heavy wing-loaded planes outturn the spits. Infact, the heavy loaded "poor turning" planes often have the advantage at high speed over the spit - they will dump they speed quicker and have a smaller turning circle. At high speed the spit has absolutely no turning advantage and is even at some disadvantage in the beginning.
-
Actually in Il2, the view system is so difficult, the noses of planes so "bouncy" and the gunnery so hard that cutting inside for a crossing-snapshot or a "blind lead" snapshot are either one feats to accomplish. Any 'ole defense will usually do, under those circumstances, and the fighter that can just turn and keep on turning until it gets a point-blank, little/no AoT tracking shot, is heavily favored.
Have I said before, thank God and HTC for Aces High?
What you describe would have happened in IL2 if the other guy was any good, it's not a quirk of the AH flight model. You just ran into someone that was a little more proficient or lucky and was simply able to cut inside of your turn.
ack-ack
-
did he flat turn with you or perform a high yo-yo to stay on ya?
-
I haven't played Il-2. Anyone care to elaborate on the differences?
Once you get past the graphics and sounds Il-2 has a heavy emphasis on historical detail regarding the technical aspects of flight, engine and gun performance of the models presented in the game. If you go to the forums you encounter unbelievable arguments in technical minutae anywhere from the prop to the piston and every nut and bolt in between. I don't know if there are any engineers in there but some of those guys certainly sound like one. Then you get umpteen chart monkeys posting umpteen, boring charts on specs and performance. They certainly get carried away with it. Some of their opinions must have some validity because some of their input has been incorporated in 9 different patches that have been supplied in the seven years it's been out. Despite its age the game requires a high end computer and graphics card to utilize max settings.
The flying experience is completely different than Aces High. The feel of the aircraft is different as is their perormance.
This link will take you to the Wikipedia article on Il-2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-2_Sturmovik_(game)
This link will take you to the forum.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/23110283
Don't misunderstand. I do NOT think Il-2 is perfect. If I did I wouldn't be here now, would I? There are aspects I don't like (but there is no arguing with the graphics and the attention to detail). Although contrary to monstrous protestations of denial by the die hard fans some suspect the game has a Russian bias. Some say the American fighters, like the 51 and 38 are porked. Who knows. I certainly don't, having never flown these aircraft, much less in combat.
But the attention to detail is impressive.
Bottom line and as I said before, two different games with different strengths and weakness to be aware of and get accustomed to.
I really wish a sim that accurately reflects ww2 aircraft could be made. But I suppose that is a pipe dream, considering what the market is willing to bear in software and equipment expenses. This ww2 flying sim stuff is a niche market that caters to aviation geeks which is a relatively small number of the gaming population.
-
Well guys, thanks for the input.
I came here after three years in Il-2. (I was intrigued by the concept of what AH offers.) I'm therefore used to different fms, among other things. So it simply means getting used to what is presented in AH, for better or for worse. They are two different games with different strengths and weaknesses and goals, I imagine.
hey dude,
if you've only just started AH, go into the training arena for an hour. it'll be the best hour you spend learning. there's almost always a trainer in there, and if not, some experienced players that love to help outr noobs.
welcome aboard!! <<S>>
-
If you can get a 110 slow enough with it's flaps full out it will out turn just about any plane in the game. Even with out the flaps it's still quite capable of turning pretty good in experanced hands. The C-4b model turns the best but even the G-2 can turn great in the right hands. I flew that beast (110G-2) as a fighter for about a tour or two and it was funny to suprise guys that thought they were in for a eay kill.
-
I own and fly them both. There are select aspects in which Il2 betters AHII, perhaps, but not many. Il2 has managed to stick every WWII airplane imaginable into their lineup, which is impressive, but it gets just as many details wrong as AHII, if not more. AHII certainly has a more complex flight modeling; Back when I had my old computer, I was running Il2 just fine on fairly high graphics settings I wouldn't even have attempted to use in AHII. The extra computing power AHII sucks down must be going to the aerodynamic calculations.
Mainly what kills Il2 in my mind in comparison to AHII though is an awful viewing system, unless you happen to own TrackIR, the bizarre instability of the aircraft, and the a-historically impotent nature of the weapons, especially .50s.
If I want to look at some pretty scenery and hear some nice sound effects while popping a few AIs, I boot up Il2. If I want some real chess-game ACM, I start AHII.
Once you get used to AH Nonaste, you'll be doing ACM, especially out-of-plane ACM and Energy fighting, on a level that is practically impossible in Il2, owing to the viewing and shooting difficulties of that sim.
-
I own and fly them both. There are select aspects in which Il2 betters AHII, perhaps, but not many. Il2 has managed to stick every WWII airplane imaginable into their lineup, which is impressive, but it gets just as many details wrong as AHII, if not more. AHII certainly has a more complex flight modeling; Back when I had my old computer, I was running Il2 just fine on fairly high graphics settings I wouldn't even have attempted to use in AHII. The extra computing power AHII sucks down must be going to the aerodynamic calculations.
Mainly what kills Il2 in my mind in comparison to AHII though is an awful viewing system, unless you happen to own TrackIR, the bizarre instability of the aircraft, and the a-historically impotent nature of the weapons, especially .50s.
If I want to look at some pretty scenery and hear some nice sound effects while popping a few AIs, I boot up Il2. If I want some real chess-game ACM, I start AHII.
Once you get used to AH Nonaste, you'll be doing ACM, especially out-of-plane ACM and Energy fighting, on a level that is practically impossible in Il2, owing to the viewing and shooting difficulties of that sim.
I personally don't like the IL2's because they allow for 3rd person view. The plane is a great turner and has awesome guns but I won't give any IL2 a serious fight, I'll just BnZ pick them if I can because of the 3rd person. It allows them to get in 3rd person and easily make shots 1k out because they don't really have to aim. You can just spray and pray using the tracers and hit guys 800 to 1k out and get lucky shots on them.
-
I personally don't like the IL2's because they allow for 3rd person view. The plane is a great turner and has awesome guns but I won't give any IL2 a serious fight, I'll just BnZ pick them if I can because of the 3rd person. It allows them to get in 3rd person and easily make shots 1k out because they don't really have to aim. You can just spray and pray using the tracers and hit guys 800 to 1k out and get lucky shots on them.
Do you play OFFLINE or ONLINE?
Because when you go online, it's as HARD CORE as it gets in some arenas where they turn off automatic engine management and external views.
-
Do you play OFFLINE or ONLINE?
Because when you go online, it's as HARD CORE as it gets in some arenas where they turn off automatic engine management and external views.
Online. I'm strictly a dog fighter there. Here I like to mess with the ground vehicles, AA and tanks 'n stuff as well as planes.
Depends on the server in Il-2 Some are very arcade others are full real. Full real is AH for sure. Thank God for TrackIr.
Damn, I kept trying to flick that bug off of my screen. :lol
-
Online. I'm strictly a dog fighter there. Here I like to mess with the ground vehicles, AA and tanks 'n stuff as well as planes.
Depends on the server in Il-2 Some are very arcade others are full real. Full real is AH for sure. Thank God for TrackIr.
Damn, I kept trying to flick that bug off of my screen. :lol
Why don't you just cut the crap and quit talking out both side of your mouth ... Here is a post from you on the IL2 BBS ...
I just came back from AH after trying out THEIR version of the 110c. My experience borders on the Twilight Zone. Their version handles damn close to the Il2 La7 and that aint much of an exageration, probably closer would be the Il2 Spit III. No wonder he easily stayed on my six.
This is NOT reasonable. With evenno charts, spec sheets etc or technical expertise common sense would not permit one to believe this. A heavy, twin eng. fighter, attack plane outmaneuvering a relatively light fighter. No way.
I agree with you idonno. Performance is suspiciously close between A/C in AH. I suspect the developers didn't do quite as much research as the Il2 crew.
Oh yes. I could NOT stall out and spin the 110c in AH. Had the stick full back. She would climb, mush, and then climb again without airspeed dropping below 150 mph. Come on. Get serious.
What you "suspect" and what is "real" ... are polar opposites ... statements such as that smack of ignorance.
You have just basically scratched the surface of this game and it's Flight Model, and I know that you haven't even spent the time flying each plane in the inventory to make the claim that the "performance is suspiciously close between A/C" ... after 6+ years playing this game ... I can tell you without doubt, that the performance is definitely different between planes.
-
Why don't you just cut the crap and quit talking out both side of your mouth ... Here is a post from you on the IL2 BBS ...
Oh yes. I could NOT stall out and spin the 110c in AH. Had the stick full back. She would climb, mush, and then climb again without airspeed dropping below 150 mph. Come on. Get serious.
oooh snap... also seems someone is flying with the stall limiter enabled...
-
Why don't you just cut the crap and quit talking out both side of your mouth ... Here is a post from you on the IL2 BBS ...
I just came back from AH after trying out THEIR version of the 110c. My experience borders on the Twilight Zone. Their version handles damn close to the Il2 La7 and that aint much of an exageration, probably closer would be the Il2 Spit III. No wonder he easily stayed on my six.
This is NOT reasonable. With evenno charts, spec sheets etc or technical expertise common sense would not permit one to believe this. A heavy, twin eng. fighter, attack plane outmaneuvering a relatively light fighter. No way.
I agree with you idonno. Performance is suspiciously close between A/C in AH. I suspect the developers didn't do quite as much research as the Il2 crew.
Oh yes. I could NOT stall out and spin the 110c in AH. Had the stick full back. She would climb, mush, and then climb again without airspeed dropping below 150 mph. Come on. Get serious.
What you "suspect" and what is "real" ... are polar opposites ... statements such as that smack of ignorance.
You have just basically scratched the surface of this game and it's Flight Model, and I know that you haven't even spent the time flying each plane in the inventory to make the claim that the "performance is suspiciously close between A/C" ... after 6+ years playing this game ... I can tell you without doubt, that the performance is definitely different between planes.
Someone does their homework.
-
in WarBirds 110c can turn good, but lacks the power it has in AH.
-
oooh snap... also seems someone is flying with the stall limiter enabled...
Good point.
Why don't you just cut the crap and quit talking out both side of your mouth ... Here is a post from you on the IL2 BBS ...
What you "suspect" and what is "real" ... are polar opposites ... statements such as that smack of ignorance.
You have just basically scratched the surface of this game and it's Flight Model, and I know that you haven't even spent the time flying each plane in the inventory to make the claim that the "performance is suspiciously close between A/C" ... after 6+ years playing this game ... I can tell you without doubt, that the performance is definitely different between planes.
Keep it civil SlapShot. What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan. Getting nasty accomplishes nothing except hard feeling. It doesn't make converts. Keep that in perspective, ok. Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.
Having only played this game for four days I will not possess knowledge of all the intricacies of AH. I can only make observations of the difference in flight modeling. And like I said before, having never flown this type of aircraft, I have no clue what is accurate and true in either game. Do you?
So please spare me your outrage. I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread. Can you say the same?
-
Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.
actually, most fanbois *are* fruits...
:aok
-
Good point.
Keep it civil SlapShot. What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan. Getting nasty accomplishes nothing except hard feeling. It doesn't make converts. Keep that in perspective, ok. Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.
Having only played this game for four days I will not possess knowledge of all the intricacies of AH. I can only make observations of the difference in flight modeling. And like I said before, having never flown this type of aircraft, I have no clue what is accurate and true in either game. Do you?
So please spare me your outrage. I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread. Can you say the same?
might be nasty, but at least he's honest.
-
You people have misconceptions about Bf 110's capabilities.
110 fighters are decent at low to medium-low altitudes. It's only high altitude fighting in Battle of Britain 1940 and air war in 1944-1945 that showed 110's weaknesses.
-
Good point.
Keep it civil SlapShot. What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan. Getting nasty accomplishes nothing except hard feeling. It doesn't make converts. Keep that in perspective, ok. Flame wars with fanboys (on either side) is fruitless.
Well .. your post's in the IL2 BBS don't sound like a "convert". You act all nice over here, yet go back to IL2 BBS and spew crap.
Don't make posts on the IL2 BBS that couldn't be posted here without embarrassment.
You got outflown ... simple as that ... flight model had nothing to do with it.
You had and still have no clue of the E state and speed of the 110 ... just that he dropped 1000 ft. During that drop, he could have been scrubbing speed and gaining an angle. All the while, your going full bore and then decide to enter a +-6G turn (riding the tunnel) to the left.
So, as he scrubs E, getting closer to his best turning speed, and gains angle, you take your Spit way out of it best fighting and turning speed ... he turns inside you and then follows you very easily in a 360 flat turn and takes you down with some bad arse cannons.
Even Kurfurst__ and idonno cited that you possibly got outflown, but that still didn't sit right with you, so you had to try prove it with AI and even then they said that testing with AI is not a valid test.
What you should have done was gradual turn to the left and as he moved for a lead angle, then you turn tight into him and up at the same time. He never would have been able to follow. At that point, you just brought the fight to the vertical ... you are on top ... and now in control. Turning into him and up at the same time has now brought down the speed of the Spit into it's best "fighting zone" and you also have alt on the 110. The 110 is now at your mercy.
-
might be nasty, but at least he's honest.
How am I being dishonest? Have I lied about something? Please elucidate. What I did was express some disillusionment and incredulity with what I encountered in an encounter. I did that in both forums.
-
not to mention 1k is only 333.3333333333333333333333333 333333 yds.. well within guns range - might not even have had to turn much to get the kill shot... without film, there's no way of knowing what the 110 actually did, other than shooting him down. as mentioned could be due to a variety of reasons...
corner speeds are very "set", true, but i highly doubt either were at pure cornering speed(s). let's not forget, instaneous turning, which was also alluded to.
my suggestion to AH newbies is to film, film , film... and watch them.
-
So please spare me your outrage. I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread. Can you say the same?
I'll spare you nothing ... I can't stand people that talk out of both sides of their mouth.
You come to this BBS and "wonder" about something ... people give you honest answers ... and then you go back to the IL2 BBS and spew crap ... not good in my book.
I tried IL2 ... I didn't like it ... yet, not once did I come back here spewing crap about the IL2 flight model and the other things that I didn't like about it. What purpose would that serve outside of getting AH fans to join in on the slamming of IL2.
You should have done the same ... try it ... don't like it ... fine, disappear quietly and go back to you game of choice and keep your mouth shut.
-
How am I being dishonest? Have I lied about something? Please elucidate. What I did was express some disillusionment and incredulity with what I encountered in an encounter. I did that in both forums.
I call BS on that too ... "disillusionment and incredulity" along with a splash "slamming" ... along with a lie to your IL2 buddies ... here is your original post on the IL2 BBS ... disingenuous at best ...
I wanted to ask a question or two about this sim but I see no point about going to their forum.
I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High. Lordy, lord. Talk about culture shock or something.
The graphics absolutely suck. The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.
So I'm confused. What am I missing here? What is the attraction? Can somebody explain what the devil is going on with a game like that.
Oh yes. The reason I'm checking it out is because I ran into an Aces High bloke while playing multiplayer Il2. This guy was totally disappointed with Il2 and claimed he was returning the game. Something about fms sucking. Yeah, I can understand that after sticking my toes in the water with Aces High.
Like I said, no point in going to the Aces High forum to post this because they are obviously fans. Maybe somebody here could explain the really, really big fan base there.
Who gives a rats arse about cockpit detail ... I'm sure all the fighter pilots in WWII were admiring their cockpits rather that concentrate on the enemy at hand while dogfighting.
I can dodge P-38s and P-51s all day long in a Zero ... it's you ... not the FM ... and as Shane pointed out, you probably have the "stall limiter" set on, but rather than figure out all that first and then take a longer and more objective look at this game, you felt compelled to go back to the IL2 BBS to make you feel better about you failing in Aces High.
-
Well .. your post's in the IL2 BBS don't sound like a "convert". You act all nice over here, yet go back to IL2 BBS and spew crap.
Since you insist on continuing on this course I'll assist you. I didn't spew crap, as you so eloquently classify it. It was on opinion which was corroborated by other members of the Il-2 community. I didn't say I am a convert and with your attitude that goal may be hindered, which I believe you couldn't give a damn about, short sighted as that is.
Don't make posts on the IL2 BBS that couldn't be posted here without embarrassment.
I'm not embarrassed by my comments but you should be with your unwarranted, though understandable, hostility.
You got outflown ... simple as that ... flight model had nothing to do with it.
Perhaps I was out flown but the 110 flight model here is drastically different than the FM there and THAT is NOT arguable. Certainly with the right angles, speed, etc. and a little luck a 110 can get a snapshot on a spit and bring him down in a diving attack. But in a flat fight. No way in Il-2. Flight model had a definite effect on that fight, providing he didn't get me with a deflection shot, which he didn't. He was on me like white on rice.
You had and still have no clue of the E state and speed of the 110 ... just that he dropped 1000 ft. During that drop, he could have been scrubbing speed and gaining an angle. All the while, your going full bore and then decide to enter a +-6G turn (riding the tunnel) to the left.
So, as he scrubs E, getting closer to his best turning speed, and gains angle, you take your Spit way out of it best fighting and turning speed ... he turns inside you and then follows you very easily in a 360 flat turn and takes you down with some bad arse cannons.
Even Kurfurst__ and idonno cited that you possibly got outflown, but that still didn't sit right with you, so you had to try prove it with AI and even then they said that testing with AI is not a valid test.
Kurfurst in an expert on technical aspects of German war planes and I value his opinion but he still wasn't there to see my short lived fight. One guy said the QMB test was not valid. Kurfurst didn't say that. He said the 110 can be underestimated.
What you should have done was gradual turn to the left and as he moved for a lead angle, then you turn tight into him and up at the same time. He never would have been able to follow. At that point, you just brought the fight to the vertical ... you are on top ... and now in control. Turning into him and up at the same time has now brought down the speed of the Spit into it's best "fighting zone" and you also have alt on the 110. The 110 is now at your mercy.
Your tactics sound good but you too didn't see the fight. There was no energy to transition to the vertical after bleeding my e off making reverse turns, jinking and then going into a tight 360 as a final resort. What do you think was or should have been happening to his e after all this? Huh?
-
we don't even know who the 110 pie-let was.. could be someone who specializes in it.
and as mentioned, if you went into a defensive flat-turn with someone that close on your tail at speeds sufficient to allow "riding the tunnel".. well, all i can say is... you need to work on your skills.
as for the post slappy is quoting from the il BBS.. i fail to see how anyone here was less than helpful until someone asked what the differences were, and even the replies to that were hardly rabidly anti-il2. i think you gave a stronger condemnation of AH than anyone in this thread gave to IL2 (not saying it couldn't have been more brutally opinionated - but it might head that way now.)
-
I call BS on that too ... "disillusionment and incredulity" along with a splash "slamming" ... along with a lie to your IL2 buddies ... here is your original post on the IL2 BBS ... disingenuous at best ...
I wanted to ask a question or two about this sim but I see no point about going to their forum.
I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High. Lordy, lord. Talk about culture shock or something.
The graphics absolutely suck. The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.
So I'm confused. What am I missing here? What is the attraction? Can somebody explain what the devil is going on with a game like that.
Oh yes. The reason I'm checking it out is because I ran into an Aces High bloke while playing multiplayer Il2. This guy was totally disappointed with Il2 and claimed he was returning the game. Something about fms sucking. Yeah, I can understand that after sticking my toes in the water with Aces High.
Like I said, no point in going to the Aces High forum to post this because they are obviously fans. Maybe somebody here could explain the really, really big fan base there.
Who gives a rats arse about cockpit detail ... I'm sure all the fighter pilots in WWII were admiring their cockpits rather that concentrate on the enemy at hand while dogfighting.
I can dodge P-38s and P-51s all day long in a Zero ... it's you ... not the FM ... and as Shane pointed out, you probably have the "stall limiter" set on, but rather than figure out all that first and then take a longer and more objective look at this game, you felt compelled to go back to the IL2 BBS to make you feel better about you failing in Aces High.
Gee SlapShot I see your panties are in a twist because I had the temerity to talk smack about your game in the Il-2. Sorry man, really am about hurting your feelings. But get over it will you? What was said there should have been left there, unless of course you get some sort of perverse pleasure in stirring the crapola.
I didn't cancel my subscription to AH. You might like me too. But I see fun in this game, which is what it all boils down too, right? I think that I'll hang around awhile, learn a new game, experience a different style of flying and... to annoy the living hell out of you, maybe.
So let's kiss and make up and I promise to keep any libelous observations I might have out of here, your bailiwick, your nest ...which is what I thought I did, now that I mentioned it.
This is getting to be a bore. A pissing contest with SlapShot is not particularly rewarding. I'd just as soon have some fun flying than wasting precious time arguing with you. I'm done discussing this with you and have a nice day.
-
What was said there should have been left there,
man, my irony meter just pegged out... what happens in AH2/IL2 should stay in AH2/IL@ respectively... right?
slappy's original assertion that if you're not satisfied with AH2, then all you needed was to simply go back to IL2 (without needing to slam AH2 over there - what purpose did *that* serve?)
meh, poepl are as poepl do... but you are correct in saying that it's all about fun, and we each have our own definition of it... who knows, if you stick around long enough to get the hang of it, maybe going back to IL2 will be like, "zomg! IL2 is teh suxxorz!!" ...or not, who knows?
-
we don't even know who the 110 pie-let was.. could be someone who specializes in it.
and as mentioned, if you went into a defensive flat-turn with someone that close on your tail at speeds sufficient to allow "riding the tunnel".. well, all i can say is... you need to work on your skills.
as for the post slappy is quoting from the il BBS.. i fail to see how anyone here was less than helpful until someone asked what the differences were, and even the replies to that were hardly rabidly anti-il2. i think you gave a stronger condemnation of AH than anyone in this thread gave to IL2 (not saying it couldn't have been more brutally opinionated - but it might head that way now.)
Man oh man. Is anybody reading what I said, anybody? I've not accused anyone here of not being helpful, except maybe SlapShot. He's behaving like a petulant child.
My negative comments about AH were restricted to the UBI forum. And those guys, believe me, aren't the slightest interested in comparing. Reread Bearcat's comments again.
If you desire to talk trash about Il-2 please feel free. I'll join in. I've got some heartache about that game as well, as good as it is. Why do you think I'm here if I'm completely enamored by Il-2?
As far as my skills, admittedly I'm average. But there's room for all to improve, right, even virtual Aces.
Last comment on this subject. Signing off. It's becoming a war which I won't and can't win, not here. Thanks SlapShot. You might be a good detective but you've got poor judgment.
-
My negative comments about AH were restricted to the UBI forum. And those guys, believe me, aren't the slightest interested in comparing. Reread Bearcat's comments again.
As far as my skills, admittedly I'm average. But there's room for all to improve, right, even virtual Aces.
this is the intardnetz, dude... nothing stays hidden for long.
But out of curiousity if the UBI guys could care less... why did you post that? no answer needed as it won't change that fact, but something for you to ponder.
as for improving... i'm sure you will. poepl here will talk Shaw endlessly and we have our boring windbags, too.
personal note: flying by the numbers usually gets one dead, or at best, remaining in obscurity. it's all about anticipation and execution, having a healthy dose of talent/instinct doesn't hurt.
i highly recommend you download some .hps (head position files) from someone who has moved them from the craptastic default ones - you could do it yourself in game with the keypad and pg up/dwn, but it'd save u time getting some already re-positioned and will go along way in helping with your SA. If you want to PM me your email addy, I'll gladly send you my .hps files which have been set for almost all ftrs and some bombers and maybe some GV's... I don't do those much anymore and some have been updated since i last flew 2 years ago.
also, bear in mind, alts are in feet, ranges are in yards. so if the guy was only 1,000 feet above you (300 yds, whch would show on icon as 200/400 depending), and not too far behind it wouldn't take much to get a guns solution.
in any case, welcome to AH2... stick around long enough and it'll grow on you and you can post all sorts of gripes and whines just liek anyone else.. *about* AH2... *here* :aok
-
nonaste ... I don't have my panties in a bunch ... and I am far from a petulant child ... I just can't stand people that talk out of both sides of their mouth ... your posts on the IL2 BBS speak for themselves.
I may have been born in the night, but it wasn't last night.
People here who have many years of flight sims experience are more than willing to take the time to answer your Aces High questions, you should show the courtesy of not going back to your IL2 boyz and talk crap.
Stick around all you want ... I am not trying to drive you out of here ... just cut the crap. You got a problem/question, we will answer it and help the best we can ... and leave it here. There is no one the flys IL2 exclusively that can answer any of your Aces High questions ... so don't come here and ask a question and then go to the IL2 BBS and expect a correct answer ... you won't get it ... and especially a non-biased one ... and then you all can sit there and slap each other on the back while slamming Aces High.
I feel no need to talk trash about IL2 ... what does it accomplish ... absolutely nothing ... it serves no purpose.
"Why do you think I'm here if I'm completely enamored by Il-2?"
According to your IL2 post ... "I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High." ... so is it really a joke/giggle or do you not want to admit to the IL2 crowd that your not completely enamored by IL2 ?
You want to stick around and learn Aces High so it can be fun .. fine ... go to the training area and hook up with some of the fine trainers that we have here ... they can get you on the 'fast track" for the fun you seek seeing that Aces High would not be your first flight sim.
-
How am I being dishonest? Have I lied about something? Please elucidate. What I did was express some disillusionment and incredulity with what I encountered in an encounter. I did that in both forums.
from what slapshot quoted in the il2 boards, it would appear that you're comming here, and talking nice to us, and being friendly, and telling how much you might like this sim. then you go to another bbs, and slam this sim, telling how a 110 handles like a lala.
the 110 is a hard(for me anyway) plane to fight in. i use it mainly for ground attack, but i have met qite a few good sticks in it. i've had my asss kicked by them while i was in zekes, and hurris....which are 2 of the best turnfighters(in my opinion) in the game.
what you did, was to basicly make yourself an easy target that anyone with eyeballs could've shot down easily. he was probably slipping his plane in that descent to keep from overshooting you, and then when he saw you flat turn, all he had to do was point his nose, and shoot.
you attributed your loss in that engagement to the flight model(on the other bbs), when in actuality, it was you lack of sa, and knowledge of evasive maneuvers.
i don't mean to be insulting, but two faced people force it out of me.
-
Yep, It probably was. Not to mention that both the G & C perform admirably when lightened of ords and fuel.
the 110 is one of my main ways of getting kills when a mission goes bad, i somehow manage to get over 5 in that when light and i still can get more if i want to die when they horde like vultures when im the only one left at the end of the battle
-
Thanks Shane.
To answer your question, I discovered AFTER I posted the question that they weren't interested in discussing the subject, mostly from the higher echelons. They are REAL touchy about some subjects. If you raise their ire too far they'll close the topic. I pushed the limit, got some answers and decided it's time to move on. If SlapShot noticed I haven't made any comments lately.
I made the decision to dig deeper into this game despite the negativity of the comments over there. I just wanted some input. I didn't expect complete objectivity, although a couple guys said encouraging things about AH which is basically what I wanted to hear, and not from here. I know you guys are fans. I am readily aware there is a strong and powerful dedication towards everybody's favorite sim.
-
I call BS on that too ... "disillusionment and incredulity" along with a splash "slamming" ... along with a lie to your IL2 buddies ... here is your original post on the IL2 BBS ... disingenuous at best ...
I wanted to ask a question or two about this sim but I see no point about going to their forum.
I've been playing Il2 for 3 years and then just for giggles I thought I'd try Aces High. Lordy, lord. Talk about culture shock or something.culture shock due to your inability to actually fly?
The graphics absolutely suck. The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.dude, if you can't dodge a pony or a lightning in a zeke......jeeze, i don't even have words that i can type here.... :rolleyes:
So I'm confused. What am I missing here? What is the attraction? Can somebody explain what the devil is going on with a game like that.
Oh yes. The reason I'm checking it out is because I ran into an Aces High bloke while playing multiplayer Il2. This guy was totally disappointed with Il2 and claimed he was returning the game. Something about fms sucking. Yeah, I can understand that after sticking my toes in the water with Aces High.i've talke dot a few that flew il2. they all said, that each different model of aircraft flew pretty much the same. not very good, but i have no personal experience there.
Like I said, no point in going to the Aces High forum to post this because they are obviously fans. Maybe somebody here could explain the really, really big fan base there.AND YOU REBUTTED MY POST ASKING HOW YOU WERE DISHONEST? YOU SCHMUCK!!!!
Who gives a rats arse about cockpit detail ... I'm sure all the fighter pilots in WWII were admiring their cockpits rather that concentrate on the enemy at hand while dogfighting.
I can dodge P-38s and P-51s all day long in a Zero ... it's you ... not the FM ... and as Shane pointed out, you probably have the "stall limiter" set on, but rather than figure out all that first and then take a longer and more objective look at this game, you felt compelled to go back to the IL2 BBS to make you feel better about you failing in Aces High.
slap...sorry to use your post for that........
-
Hey Cap.
Thanks man. Your opinion is precious, just precious. I'll be sure to file it in the appropriate place.
-
Since you insist on continuing on this course I'll assist you. I didn't spew crap, as you so eloquently classify it. It was on opinion which was corroborated by other members of the Il-2 community. I didn't say I am a convert and with your attitude that goal may be hindered, which I believe you couldn't give a damn about, short sighted as that is.
I'm not embarrassed by my comments but you should be with your unwarranted, though understandable, hostility.
i don't know how old you are....but you should learn..and very quickly....don't say things about anything or anybody that you wouldn't say to them.
Perhaps I was out flown but the 110 flight model here is drastically different than the FM there and THAT is NOT arguable. Certainly with the right angles, speed, etc. and a little luck a 110 can get a snapshot on a spit and bring him down in a diving attack. But in a flat fight. No way in Il-2. Flight model had a definite effect on that fight, providing he didn't get me with a deflection shot, which he didn't. He was on me like white on rice.
it is 10 times harder to shake a con than it is to track a con. you were simply outflown. did you use any throttle management? flaps? anything besides a simple flat turn?
Kurfurst in an expert on technical aspects of German war planes and I value his opinion but he still wasn't there to see my short lived fight. One guy said the QMB test was not valid. Kurfurst didn't say that. He said the 110 can be underestimated.
Your tactics sound good but you too didn't see the fight. There was no energy to transition to the vertical after bleeding my e off making reverse turns, jinking and then going into a tight 360 as a final resort. What do you think was or should have been happening to his e after all this? Huh? you pulled your turns WAY too hard if you lost all of that e in a spit. i con diving from your six is the absolute easiest to avoid. on top of that, if you do it right, you can gain alt each time you avoid, and pretty soon take away his advantage. it just seems you il2 guys don't know how to do that.
go to the TA, and learn to fly these planes.
-
I made the decision to dig deeper into this game despite the negativity of the comments over there. I just wanted some input. I didn't expect complete objectivity, although a couple guys said encouraging things about AH which is basically what I wanted to hear, and not from here.
Trying to put this the most polite way possible... but when you down-talk something you obviously know little about (not trying to be rude/negative, but you are very unfamiliar with the way things work in Aces High, obviously), and then post a link to the forum you made it in... you've got to expect that kind of response.
Most of the problems you encountered are simply because you don't know what you're doing... again, not trying to be rude, but the 'I can't avoid a P51 in a Zeke' and 'I can't snap stall a 110C' make this very obvious.
So, some advice...
First and fore most, turn off the stall limiter... these are nice training wheels for newbies who have never flown a sim before, but as you've flown in Il2 for a while it won't help you much. The stall limiter, as a trade-off for making aircraft insanely easy to fly, severely limits performance, as well as, I imagine, making the aircraft feel similar.
Also, many of the aircraft have been updated from their old AH1 graphics models, but some still haven't... the A6M, Hurricane, 110, etc. are far from equal to the F4U, P39, La7, etc. that have been recently updated. Also, you can shift your head view up VERY far in the Bf.110, letting you get very nice deflection shots due to it's over-the-nose visibility.
Hope I was of some help...
-
Thanks Motherland.
-
Hey Cap.
Thanks man. Your opinion is precious, just precious. I'll be sure to file it in the appropriate place.
ya, i know ya love me man. i can feel it all the way over here :rofl
like i said, not trying to be nasty, but you should take time to learn.
then talk
-
Nonaste:
Plane A being able to cut an angle on plane B turning flat and making a crossing snap-shot is nothing remarkable at all. A 262 could do it to a Zero, in the right circumstances. Like I say, I suspect the difficulty in viewing/gunnery you are used to in the other game is why you are also used to a flat turn working easily as a defense.
In AHII, the black out comes at 6 Gs. Some men can stand more Gs, yes, some men less. But 6 is probably a good average for pilots without G-suits. If both of you are above corner speed, then both of you are G-limited in your turns, thus no advantage to either plane (Unless their are high speed control issues.) So if the speeds were right, the 110 could also just pull lead for an in-plane shot without having to cut an angle.
Which brings up another point. One thing I think Il2 does do better than AHII is modeling elevator/control stiffness at high speed. AHII planes seem very generous in this regard...you have to get 110s and 109s past 400 IAS ( power-dive) to get a loss of authority so severe you can't pull 6 Gs...some reading I've done suggest both airplanes should get very stiff elevators at lower speeds than that. You pretty much have the same issues across the board, in general, AHII airplanes handle speed alot better than Il2 airplanes. Except for the Japanese stuff, in AHII you are NOT going to experience structural failure from dive speed alone in a fighter. This might be another reason why the 110 was not as easy a kill as you are used to.
It is also possible, that due to lag issues, the pilot of the 110 had lead on you and a shot on his screen, while on your screen it looked like he did not have sufficient lead.
In conclusion, to help you understand what is happening, below is a film in AHF format of one of the worst turning fighters in the game, making shots on things that turn better. There is no "out-turning" involved here, only cutting across the circle of the bandit's turn with the shot. If after viewing this you believe the 190 D9 is also modeled incorrectly and "turns better" than the Spit and Mustang, go into the DA and get into a Luftberry with a Spitfire or Mustang.
http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlg30gejtd (http://www.mediafire.com/?gmlg30gejtd)
-
Good point.
Keep it civil SlapShot. What I said in the FB forum was not intended for you to bring back here and throw into the fan.
Sure makes you look foolish and rather hypocritical though.
Having only played this game for four days I will not possess knowledge of all the intricacies of AH. I can only make observations of the difference in flight modeling. And like I said before, having never flown this type of aircraft, I have no clue what is accurate and true in either game. Do you?
But your comments about the Bf 110C being impossible to stall and then you whining about it on the forums just shows that you really didn't put much forth into learning AH. You just assumed because you think you're some hot stick in another game that you should be the same in here. Unfortunately, you didn't learn about the stall limiter which is why you couldn't stall it. Had you taken the time to learn or just a few minutes to read the manual, you would have known the stall limiter is enabled by default. The bf 110C didn't stall because of a porked flight model.
So please spare me your outrage. I'm entitled to my opinion and I kept my negative comments about AH on UBI and I haven't attacked anyone here in this thread. Can you say the same?
You are entitled to your opinion and I don't think Slap was denying you that right. He was just pointing out your duplicity on both forums. You can't really get a better example of being two-faced.
ack-ack
-
"For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude."
This quote more than anything else convinces that you are missing something very basic. The P-51 especially handles worse in turning in AHII than in Il2. She cannot BEGIN to match any of the 109s in this game as a turner. Neither the Mustang nor the Lightning can hold a candle to the Zeke as a turner in AHII. Like I say, go get into a Luftberry with one if you don't believe me. This statement also tends to confirm my theory, the difference between Il2 and AHII you are not used to is the fact that deflection shooting is actually practical with AHII's viewing system.
-
The cockpits are ridiculous and the fm for aircraft are shocking compared to Il2. For example, I can easily avoid a p38 or p51 in a zero in Il2. I was amazed at what those two birds can do in Aces High. Is this realistic? They were kicking my butt at low altitude.
Sounds like you really don't know what either plane was capable of in real life. However, if you were in a Zeke on the deck angles fighting with a P-51 or a P-38 and was out maneuvered, you screwed up, plain and simple. Though, it sounds like your ego won't allow you to accept the fact you screwed up or flew poorly and instead you blame the flight model.
ack-ack
-
Thanks BnZ. On the fifth day I was told to turn the stall limiter off. I saw it early on but wasn't sure what it's purpose was, although the title is plain as day.
-
Perhaps I was out flown but the 110 flight model here is drastically different than the FM there and THAT is NOT arguable. Certainly with the right angles, speed, etc. and a little luck a 110 can get a snapshot on a spit and bring him down in a diving attack. But in a flat fight. No way in Il-2. Flight model had a definite effect on that fight, providing he didn't get me with a deflection shot, which he didn't. He was on me like white on rice.
No, it wasn't the flight model that killed you, it was your poor SA and flying. If you were in a flat turn and the other guy was diving on you, he didn't have to turn to gain an angle. All he just needs to do is roll into your turn and he's already inside with an angle for the kill. It's basic ACM.
ack-ack
-
If it was Dastrdly in the 110 he turns that thing inside out. Don't be surprised if he can hang with your spitfire and put you in the tower, nothing against your flying. It's just he's the best 110 stick by far I've ever come across and always a challenging fight.
There are two planes I always have far more difficulty then any other to force an over shoot in rolls. Corsairs with their gamey flaps and landing gear tricks. And Dastrdly in his 110 though unlike the F4 his only resource is skill and a lizard watching over his shoulder.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Corsairs with their gamey flaps and landing gear tricks.
<S>...-Gixer
personally, i never drop the gear in a hog... flap, otoh... what really makes those flaps effective as they are, is the....
rudder... and it's a huge honking rudder...
and that's the thing about AH2.. or IL2 or WB or whatever.. we're allowed the luxury of fully exploring a planes capabilities, we don't die... so we learn from our mistakes... ideally
this is also why so many "purists" and "by the numbers" poepl have a hard time wrapping their heads about perceived FM fidelity, or lack thereof. we do stuff that was maybe never even done in RL, certainly not with the frequency in which we can, and against the prevalent wisdom of the day. it's a lot different when your life is on the line.
-
oooh snap... also seems someone is flying with the stall limiter enabled...
lol, wana see a 110 spin to the ground? Just make me turn in one lol
-
lol, wana see a 110 spin to the ground? Just make me turn in one lol
yeah, they have a nasty flat spin.
-
Thanks BnZ. On the fifth day I was told to turn the stall limiter off. I saw it early on but wasn't sure what it's purpose was, although the title is plain as day.
oooooooooo please tell us you're not serious :uhoh
-
His IL2 thread is much more interesting of a read than this one. I would say he made his mind up and will be flying IL2 at the end of the month. Was funny to read that there are not many Europeans playing AH?! :huh The thing about AH being made by Texans for Texas was good too... :lol
-
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4631027186/p/3
oooooo, I see an AH horde a-comin'!
(NOE of course, stealthy steathy)
-
LOL guess who had stall limiter on and couldn't figure out why it would "mush". :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
I read this topic.
There are some people out there who think the "harder" a WWII flight sim is the more realistic it is. Il2 caters well to that. This is not necessarily the case. I've never read a WWII pilot saying "I couldn't stop my plane's nose from bouncing up and down" or "I poured the whole 9 yards into that Fw-190 and nothing happened." That they think the gunnery in AHII is too easy and involves a "hit bubble" is telling.
-
DA...DA...DA :D
-
Well, the price is right. You can buy IL-2 1946 for $10. I'm going to try it just to see what all the hype is about. :D
I read this topic.
There are some people out there who think the "harder" a WWII flight sim is the more realistic it is. Il2 caters well to that. This is not necessarily the case. I've never read a WWII pilot saying "I couldn't stop my plane's nose from bouncing up and down" or "I poured the whole 9 yards into that Fw-190 and nothing happened." That they think the gunnery in AHII is too easy and involves a "hit bubble" is telling.
Come on now, we all know the bad characteristics of aircraft are dumbed down a bit in AH. Real flight is like great sex while AH is like talking about it.
-
Well, the price is right. You can buy IL-2 1946 for $10. I'm going to try it just to see what all the hype is about. :D
at least go in with an open mind...
disclaimer: never tried il-2.. probably never will <the playerbase seems so anal retentive and narrow minded, an opinion formed over the years, not just this thread>
to each their own <shrug>
and since this will prolly get locked anyway...
I found this quote from the linked thread to be, well... ironic at the least.
"AH is no where near the level of IL2 when it comes to flight modeling. You should realize that many sims of the day made flying hard because they lacked knowledge in the department so they favored "hard" assuming it meant more real. Its simply false."
-
His IL2 thread is much more interesting of a read than this one. I would say he made his mind up and will be flying IL2 at the end of the month. Was funny to read that there are not many Europeans playing AH?! :huh The thing about AH being made by Texans for Texas was good too... :lol
I loved this comment from him:
Interestingly, the AH fellow I ran into was not handling his bird well. I'm average and I was flying circles around him which he noted. I think you have something there about yanking and banking.
LOL! I can't imagine anyone that doesn't have a grasp of ACM would be able to fly circles around anyone.
ack-ack
-
at least go in with an open mind...
disclaimer: never tried il-2.. probably never will <the playerbase seems so anal retentive and narrow minded, an opinion formed over the years, not just this thread>
to each their own <shrug>
I am an IL-2 player. I have been lurking the AH boards for a few months now. I have a similar opinion of this community.
It is most likely due to unfamiliarity of culture.
Just a thought.
-
I am an IL-2 player. I have been lurking the AH boards for a few months now. I have a similar opinion of this community.
It is most likely due to unfamiliarity of culture.
Just a thought.
Ever visit our O'Club? :rofl
-
Well, the price is right. You can buy IL-2 1946 for $10. I'm going to try it just to see what all the hype is about. :D
Come on now, we all know the bad characteristics of aircraft are dumbed down a bit in AH. Real flight is like great sex while AH is like talking about it.
In two or three respects, perhaps. Torque seems a bit easy in AHII, and not all airfoils used in RL gave a buffet before they stall like in AHII. And like I say, I think airframes in AHII handle speed really well. Otherwise, no.
Is AHII perfect? No. Can you actually SEE and SHOOT and execute the full repetoire of ACM in AHII? YES, and many of these things are impossible/near impossible in Il2 because of the bad snap-views, odd instability of all aircraft, and impotent guns. And that is what I consider important.
-
Yes, I will keep an open mind. Wish AH had prop/mixture controls though. :pray
-
Yes, I will keep an open mind. Wish AH had prop/mixture controls though. :pray
Uh...you DO have prop control.
-
Ok, I'll spell it out: Propeller pitch and mixture controls. :P
-
Ok, I'll spell it out: Propeller pitch and mixture controls. :P
If you make it to where the Messerschmidt dweebs have to deal MANUAL prop pitch control put in this game Gav, half the 109 guys will want to lynch you.
-
Il2 pros eye candy, plane set, free
cons You think AH is flap fest? wait till you get IL2. , Flight model that feels like the AC is stuck in the mud, not to mention changes due to the amount of whine generated on their BBS. Did i mention the craptacular view system. Limited arena play.
-
I just experienced a rather unbelievable outcome after flying a seafire IIc vs. a BF110.
This guy was about 1000' above me and dived on me. I immediately went into a very sharp left turning orbit, taking advantage of p factor and resulting tendancy towards yaw to port. This guy started to slowly fall in behind me. I increased the turn until I was "riding the tunnel" as you like to call it. The other pilot STILL managed to stay on my tail and shoot me down after following me in over a 360 degree turn.
How is this possible? The spit has a turn time of approx. 17 at 1000m per second as opposed to the 110 turn time of 33. The BF110 can no way stay in a turn with a spit but yet it happened. This makes me wonder about flight modeling.
Can somebody explain this please.
Was he coming from the right?
Anyway, the cure there is NOT to take a flat turn, take a low break. Since he comes from higher and is catching on, his G's will be more than yours, simply because he's faster.
So low break untill you black out (almost), then either loop over or high break (at blackout).
I usually try for a straight loop, watch where he is and hammer him :devil
BTW you easily outturn them in Spitfires, just keep your nose up a bit and watch them stall out :D
-
I am an IL-2 player. I have been lurking the AH boards for a few months now. I have a similar opinion of this community.
It is most likely due to unfamiliarity of culture.
Just a thought.
do you fly AH, or just lurk here?
-
I have the latest IL2 Version and I have played it on and offline.
Cockpits.....imho the AH cockpits are more complete and I can see all the gauges easily without moving.
Bells and whistles....engine control. If you want it IL2 has it AH doesn't.
Cockpit views. AH wins handily.
Graphics go to IL2....but they don't have 500 to 600 flying in the same airspace at the same time.
Gunnery about the same actually. However in IL2 50 cals which we know were deadly lack the punch imho in IL2.
Shortcoming IL2 has that are glaring. Huge Scenarios. They have the planeset but don't have enough room to have special events that border on the realistic as we do. IL2 is nice...I play it occasisionaly for a change of pace. But I can fly with 30 of my squadmates against hundreds of adversaries. IL2 is limited in capacity. Can only experience skirmishes not battles.
-
do you fly AH, or just lurk here?
I took my two weeks a month ago, and still mess around in the offline game occasionally.
I am not an AH flyer, which makes me sound like a total arse. But I try to keep an open mind about it.
-
I took my two weeks a month ago, and still mess around in the offline game occasionally.
I am not an AH flyer, which makes me sound like a total arse. But I try to keep an open mind about it.
OK, i can understand that.
the reason i came off like i did yesterday, was due to the other posts in the other forums. that's kind of like walking up to someone on the street, and saying, ""hey!! you're one helluva guy!"" then going to your buddy as ya walk away ""what an effin schmuck""
i'm sure you can see the point.
try the offline missions, or just get your subscripiton for a month. spen some time in the training arena.
95% of the pilots in there will gladly offer help if you ask them. they all are very generous with their knowledge and experience.
and if you do go in there, you can also ask if there's any trianers in there. most of them will(time permitting) deal with you 1-1 to help you get started.
you will be very pleasently surprised if you take some time to learn the game. there are so many great people in this sim, that it's almost scary.
join in the fun dude!!
-
I took my two weeks a month ago, and still mess around in the offline game occasionally.
I am not an AH flyer, which makes me sound like a total arse. But I try to keep an open mind about it.
If you are just messing around offline, then AHII is just a flight game with 1998 level graphics.
You need to go into the Training Arena/Dueling Arena and experience the level of ACM possible chiefly possible because AHII has a fairly natural and intuitive viewing system. When you get into a good dogfight with someone, you won't even notice the number of polygons in the landscape, or whatever. As I alluded to earlier, the fact that the Il2 player who started this thread didn't understand how worse-turning planes could cut angles and make deflection shots on him demonstrates how badly Il2 players are handicapped by that sim's viewing system and other idiosyncrasies, no matter how wonderful the land scape may be to look at.
-
If you are just messing around offline, then AHII is just a flight game with 1998 level graphics.
You need to go into the Training Arena/Dueling Arena and experience the level of ACM possible chiefly possible because AHII has a fairly natural and intuitive viewing system. When you get into a good dogfight with someone, you won't even notice the number of polygons in the landscape, or whatever. As I alluded to earlier, the fact that the Il2 player who started this thread didn't understand how worse-turning planes could cut angles and make deflection shots on him demonstrates how badly Il2 players are handicapped by that sim's viewing system and other idiosyncrasies, no matter how wonderful the land scape may be to look at.
that's why i concentratedf on getting him to go to the training arena in my last post. i think he'll see the difference if he learns from some of the great sticks that hang outr in there
-
IL2 has a lot of things better than AH - These are all the things that doesn't really matter. When it comes to the really important stuff, AH takes the cake: readable gauges, view system, near stall FM, simplicity in operation, actual game play.
I don't appreciate much the "press X at 10000 feet to switch charger gear" or "manually adjust the pitch even though you have only 1 slider controller" as better modeling. I'm operating my plane with a standard keyboard, a simple joystick and an office chair, while looking through a 17" screen. This is probably the worst design for a WWII cockpit ever. Pressing extra keys that are just standard operation is not fun. I do not feel like a real WWII pilot anyway and this just makes it worse: I imagine Bob Johnson feeling around in his cockpit trying to find CTRL+] to open the cowling flaps and unable to move is head with the keypad at the same time.
The ONLY thing that IL2 does better than AH and I do care about, is the damage modeling. This is by far AH's weakest point, at least in my eyes.
-
I just fired up Il2:1946 and tried out the 110G. Lo and behold, doesn't handle much different than our 110. Similar roll rate, similar stall traits. CAN maintan a nice rate of turn in a nose low-manuever until the speed bleeds off. The only difference I noticed is a gradually increasing lost of elevator authority over 300 IAS...well, like I said, this is one thing ll2 does do better than AH, but what you gonna do? *shrug*
IL2 has a lot of things better than AH - These are all the things that doesn't really matter. When it comes to the really important stuff, AH takes the cake: readable gauges, view system,
There you go. Having cockpit instruments you can actually read at a glance is more important IMO than having a photo-realistic representation of the actual cockpit. Another thing that EVERY sim should include but most don't is G meters. No, most WWII airplanes didn't have them in the cockpit, but WWII pilots had an instrument called the "butt" with which they could feel the Gs they were pulling. We don't.
-
I'd still like our instruments to be metric where applicable.
Anyone else have a problem with trim in Il-2 1946? It doesn't seem to do a damn thing.
-
Trim in Il2 has a delayed reaction...apparently this was to overcome pilots using trim to make planes that otherwise have stiff elevators turn well at high speeds.