Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on September 29, 2008, 01:02:27 PM
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You go, Congressmen!
207 yea, 226 nay. House republicans vote overwhelmingly against the bailout. Massive arm-wrangling going on now.. hope the Republicans and a few brave Democrats continue to hold firm. I just fired off an email to my Rep, 'FIGHT!!, VOTE NO ON THE BAILOUT!!.. or I'll be voting NO for you in November!'
They could use a lil encouragement. ;)
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This is good news! They could keep the vote open for a very long time though. :pray
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the market wants that big governemnt tit to suck on, BAAAAAAD......
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Hit 'em! Bombard them with VOTE NO email! Get your representative off this list.. and HIT EM!
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ (http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/)
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I can almost hear the phone call from GWB:
GW: "Hey now, I need you to get in line and support this bailout."
Rep: "Screw you, lame duck - if I go for this - I'm cooked in November."
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Well they succeeded in killing the bill it seems for the time being. The market has responded. I hope those that thought the idea was not good can celebrate with the more than 700 point downturn in the market today. Losing 400 points in 10 minutes is really nice isn't it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street
Nice job there looking out for the country and the economy.
:huh
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LOL.. did you invest poorly?
The money is gone... the bill will not bring it back.
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Is there a list showing who did, and didn't, vote yes or no?
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look, the market needs a correction, we have propped it with too many artificial bubbles... it will be tough on all of us but this is something we can more easily fix now than if we saddled ourselves with another trillion of debt.
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Well, we can look short term or long term. Long term this bill as written would cause more damage than the short term pain the defeat will cause.
I'll stick with DeFazio. This thing will get fixed but there's no way we should allow them to railroad through a bill that saves the yachts of the Richie Rich guys while the average schmoe taxpayer foots the bill.
DeFazio, a Democrat, said the plan would benefit the same executives who created the financial mess in the first place.
"If we pass this bill as they proposed it, we'll do an incredible disservice to the American people," DeFazio said in a fiery speech on the House floor. "What if it doesn't work? You have the execs come out whole and they scoot the money offshore. What's the next step?"
As proposed, the bailout plan gives Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson the keys to the U.S. Treasury without oversight or restriction, DeFazio said. He called for a deliberative approach that avoids acting in haste -- as he said Congress did in 2002 when it gave President Bush authority to invade Iraq.
"We shouldn't be rushed into this. If it takes a week, two weeks, three weeks, a month, the world will wait," DeFazio said. "They'll wait for a thoughtful plan that cures the disease in addition to getting us beyond this initial problem. That's the job of this Congress. We should not be rolled by our Wall Street exec who is masquerading as secretary of the Treasury."
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We can handle a re-adjustment. A government induced depression that lasts a decade and leaves us with a nationalized banking system is failure.
Freedom means a free market. Enforce fraud legislation. SEC should do it's job.
We should do ours.
VOTE NO!
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Looks like www.house.gov is jammed! LOL (at least from the route i have to take - all other websites work fine)
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If more banks start failing and your money is lost.. How will you spin that it's somehow the democrats fault then? While I don't support bailing out companies whom fail, this could very well be the decision that causes our economy to fail.
The simple facts are like it or not, with out banks giving out credit the economy dries up. Jobs get lost and banks close and it turns into a vicious cycle that could very well bring down this country. If foreign investors can't trust our banks then they will stop investing here, which causes even more issues.
I'm sure I'll be called a liberal or some other O'club right winger choice insult of the day, however I will be interested to see in a few months if things turn south more than they are today. How will you guys try to blame it on the Democrats.
Not approving this bail could very well cause a run on the US banking system which could cause even banks that are not in trouble to fail. WaMu failed for this reason, people were pulling their money out in droves and while the bank was in trouble that is what caused it to finally collapse.
So far we have been lucky and the federal govt has been able to turn to other big banks to buy out most of these failed banks. However if the govt shows it will not support the system the companies will not so easily be persuaded to buy out the failing banks. It will end up being the Fed whom has to flip the bill. How many banks do you think the Fed can actually cover if it goes bad?
If you don't think we are in trouble then you need to check out..
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
When you start adding up the amount of money these banks were worth it dwarfs bank closures from any other time in history.
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Well, I'm sure you'll note that Pelosi couldn't resist getting one last shot in at Evil Boosh before the vote. Pissed off enough Republicans that it failed, at least that's what the talking heads are saying right now. WTG Pelosi eh?
I wasn't for it as written. Because this version failed doesn't mean there will be no bailout. What it means is that there's going to be a better version that protects the taxpayer to a larger degree and allows Richie Rich and his pals to take a double dose of the pain themselves. God forbid they have to sell the yatch! How will they get out to their private islands in the Med?
Now that the attempt to railroad this through on the backs of the Average Joe has failed, perhaps they'll settle down and write a fair bailout bill that doesn't punish the taxpayer for Richie Rich's screwup.
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crockett.. why is it a partisan issue? Why do you always go for the party line jugular? Toss yer democrat suit out, and use yer own brain... if you have one. This is not a partisan issue. The guy leading the fight against this in the house is an honest 11 term democrat.
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If more banks start failing and your money is lost.. How will you spin that it's somehow the democrats fault then? While I don't support bailing out companies whom fail, this could very well be the decision that causes our economy to fail.
As one of the few OC Liberals (with a capital L please) - I simply wonder what the economy "failing" looks like. Maybe we need a picture of the Treasury with the word "FAIL" on it for the fail thread.
What happens if we don't buy bad debt from banks? They have to declare Chapter 11, and become insolvent? The FBI files hundreds of cases of fraud based on the method the bank used to hide the amount of leverage they were carrying? Is that a bad thing?
That may not be a bad thing. Pull a caravan of paddy wagons up to Wall Street and start filing them in.
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If more banks start failing and your money is lost.. How will you spin that it's somehow the democrats fault then?
Stop focusing on blame. The whole damn system gets credit for this.
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Well, I'm sure you'll note that Pelosi couldn't resist getting one last shot in at Evil Boosh before the vote. Pissed off enough Republicans that it failed, at least that's what the talking heads are saying right now. WTG Pelosi eh?
I wasn't for it as written. Because this version failed doesn't mean there will be no bailout. What it means is that there's going to be a better version that protects the taxpayer to a larger degree and allows Richie Rich and his pals to take a double dose of the pain themselves. God forbid they have to sell the yatch! How will they get out to their private islands in the Med?
Now that the attempt to railroad this through on the backs of the Average Joe has failed, perhaps they'll settle down and write a fair bailout bill that doesn't punish the taxpayer for Richie Rich's screwup.
It's getting railroaded in on the back of the Average American one way or another. Either we pay for it now or we pay for it when the economy tanks and we end up in another depression. You think the rich are really going to suffer much in a depression? Hell no, but the average American sure will.
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As one of the few OC Liberals (with a capital L please) - I simply wonder what the economy "failing" looks like. Maybe we need a picture of the Treasury with the word "FAIL" on it for the fail thread.
What happens if we don't buy bad debt from banks? They have to declare Chapter 11, and become insolvent? The FBI files hundreds of cases of fraud based on the method the bank used to hide the amount of leverage they were carrying? Is that a bad thing?
That may not be a bad thing. Pull a caravan of paddy wagons up to Wall Street and start filing them in.
A liberal with a brain engaged! refreshing! :aok
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I'm sure I'll be called a liberal or some other O'club right winger choice insult of the day, however I will be interested to see in a few months if things turn south more than they are today. How will you guys try to blame it on the Democrats.
Just as a bipartisan effort got us into this mess, arguably one with a few more Democratic fingerprints than Republican (but not enough to really assign blame with the asleep-at-the-switch, bought and paid for Govt.), apparently a bipartisan effort defeated the bill:
The House vote: 228-205 against the measure, with members of both parties reluctant to approve a deal approved by their leaders. Ninety-five Democrats and 133 Republicans voted no.
A better queston might be: When will Crockett see that the Democrats are every bit as screwed up as the Republicans?
Charon
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It's getting railroaded in on the back of the Average American one way or another. Either we pay for it now or we pay for it when the economy tanks and we end up in another depression. You think the rich are really going to suffer much in a depression? Hell no, but the average American sure will.
Crockett, the money is gone. This bill will not make it re-appear. If you lost money personally... you were speculating in a volatile market valued beyond reality. And you deserve to have yer bellybutton handed to you... just like if your bet paid out, you deserved to win handsomely.
Take yer lumps, we'll take ours.
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I know they say it would take too much time, but doing something similiar as the RTC is the most appropiate course, IMO. I think the government even made a profit on the RTC.
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What happens if we don't buy bad debt from banks? They have to declare Chapter 11, and become insolvent? The FBI files hundreds of cases of fraud based on the method the bank used to hide the amount of leverage they were carrying? Is that a bad thing?
That may not be a bad thing. Pull a caravan of paddy wagons up to Wall Street and start filing them in.
I'll be a S.O.B. I said it couldn't happen - but i actually agree with you here. I think there are several people who should be in jail over this mess. The economy will recover quickly IF the government just gets out of the way. Allow dying industries that are reeling from overtaxation and over regulation recover and thrive... This puts people to work and keeps our money here and not in a communist chinese bank.
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Stop focusing on blame. The whole damn system gets credit for this.
Just so long as you understand everyday this goes on and every day that another bank fails, I hope you understand that you are paying for it. The question is how long can the market sustain it's self with out giving out loans? How many more banks will fail, that you will end up paying for before congress can approve something? Then of course there is the question mark of how much time do we have before the system it's self can't sustain it's self making any rescue plan irrelevant.
This is one of those things that has a limited time before it can't be recovered. The bail out might have been a bad deal for the tax payers but what could come with out it maybe worse. Only time will tell.
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Just so long as you understand everyday this goes on and every day that another bank fails, I hope you understand that you are paying for it. The question is how long can the market sustain it's self with out giving out loans? How many more banks will fail, that you will end up paying for before congress can approve something? Then of course there is the question mark of how much time do we have before the system it's self can't sustain it's self making any rescue plan irrelevant.
This is one of those things that has a limited time before it can't be recovered.
Until the banks that have the bad paper tank and fail.. as they should, there will be no large scale credit. The federal bailout keeps the bad paper in the system. That won't free up the credit... only when the banks with the terminal disease of bad mortgage paper die off will the healthy banks start loaning again.
let it run it's course.
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Crockett, the government caused this with easy money... We can get ourselves out of it if you reintroduce RISK back into the market... removal of the risk caused the banks to have an orgy of irresponsibility
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GO Republicians!! Don't give that money away!!
Democrates love to do that sort of thing.
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I know they say it would take too much time, but doing something similiar as the RTC is the most appropiate course, IMO. I think the government even made a profit on the RTC.
Yes, it made a profit.
There's no rush. This is a liquidity crisis. There's absolutely NOTHING stopping the government from LOANING these clowns money, even at 0% interest. Even at 0%, we'd get our money BACK.
But Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.. .. they don't want a loan; they want a GIFT.
Screw'em. There are people in the House that know the right thing to do. DeFazio, Paul, others. This can be fixed without GIVING these Richie Rich clowns a TRILLION FORKING DOLLARS.
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WTG Republicans for voting against a plan that you created.
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Until the banks that have the bad paper tank and fail.. as they should, there will be no large scale credit. The federal bailout keeps the bad paper in the system. That won't free up the credit... only when the banks with the terminal disease of bad mortgage paper die off will the healthy banks start loaning again.
let it run it's course.
You are missing the bigger picture.. Of course the banks that cause the mess should be held responsible, however unfortunately it don't work that way. No one really knows who holds bad paper because the system isn't open partially due to the deregulation. If people lose faith in the banking industry, it matters little if your bank had good loans or bad.
If people lose faith in the system they start pulling money out of the banks. With out that money even a good bank will fail. Like it or not, this bail out wasn't as much about "bailing out" banks but rather keeping confidence in the system. You sound like you are more worried about punishing the ones that did bad, rather than looking at the bigger picture of the stability of the US economy.
Not bailing out these banks regardless of what they may or may not have done wrong, might just end up costing the tax payer even more in the long run.
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You are missing the bigger picture.. Of course the banks that cause the mess should be held responsible, however unfortunately it don't work that way. No one really knows who holds bad paper because the system isn't open partially due to the deregulation. If people lose faith in the banking industry, it matters little if your bank had good loans or bad.
If people lose faith in the system they start pulling money out of the banks. With out that money even a good bank will fail. Like it or not, this bail out wasn't as much about "bailing out" banks but rather keeping confidence in the system. You sound like you are more worried about punishing the ones that did bad, rather than looking at the bigger picture of the stability of the US economy.
I understand perfectly. They want a check written on my money, without telling me what they owe, who they owe it to and how they got their tulips in a sling.. they want their parachutes, I want an accounting statement and all the other things they ask of me when I ask them for a loan.
Then I want to tell em GFY.
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Yep. And we're willing to give them the money...only we want the taxpayers to have a lien on their businesses, their home mortgages, their yatchs, their jets and their Ferraris. Fair is fair, after all.
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I am not willing to lend them the money... free credit and cheap dollars caused the problem... Let them liquidate and start all over.
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Yep. And we're willing to give them the money...only we want the taxpayers to have a lien on their businesses, their home mortgages, their yatchs, their jets and their Ferraris. Fair is fair, after all.
Well I sure hope this decision doesn't end up hurting you and this country more than the 700 billion would have. How long do you think our economy can continue to go on with the credit markets being dead?
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I am not willing to lend them the money... free credit and cheap dollars caused the problem... Let them liquidate and start all over.
Do you understand that no one can borrow money right now? It's not just bad banks.. it's everyone.
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Fine. Nobody said it would be easy.. so we wait a bit before buying the car we can't afford or buying a house that's overpriced. What idiot would want to get a loan now at usurious rates?
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Do you understand that no one can borrow money right now? It's not just bad banks.. it's everyone.
Not true! I'm closing on a loan this Friday...
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Well I sure hope this decision doesn't end up hurting you and this country more than the 700 billion would have. How long do you think our economy can continue to go on with the credit markets being dead?
I'd rather the bad fail, we go into a depression, and the voters crucify all the idiots in congress and put in people that are fiscally responsible. Sure would be a lot easier than giving out a trillion dollars to protect people with the yachts.
As for the people... oh well, if you are in debt and paying more than you can afford on a home, you will be in a world of crap. But, you can blame no one but yourself for being a stupid imbecile and putting yourself into that situation.
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Yall vote NO and i will make more money. :aok
Still think a yes with a healthy reform of wall street regulations will be the best long term, but as long as i can line my pocket with increased interest on my savings then so be it :)
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Do you understand that no one can borrow money right now? It's not just bad banks.. it's everyone.
BS, I just took out a loan to buy a property from a bank that some idiot overpaid on and I got at a fire sale price.
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apparently, we do not need to borrow anything else... We cannot borrow anything because we are a 70% consumer spending based economy... It does not take a rocket science major to figure out that an economy like that cannot stand. We have to retool the economy to re-energize manufacturing. For years (with the exception of ONLY my home and I put 40% down on it) I have lived by the rule that if i cannot put my hand in my pocket and pay the money for it, in full, i do not need it. I have done without many things and it hasnt hurt me yet.
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Well I sure hope this decision doesn't end up hurting you and this country more than the 700 billion would have. How long do you think our economy can continue to go on with the credit markets being dead?
Oh, I think we can limp along a week or two while our wise elected leaders <cough> produce a plan that is actually well thought out, protects the taxypayer like the aforementioned RTC, includes strong oversight and adds a little responsibility/accountability for the Richie Rich guys.
DeFazio "gets it". They're not all morons.
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Those of us that are not leveraged up the bellybutton have reserves, credit and liquidity... the banks are clubbing each other to get our business.. we're good risks.
Seems to me to be the way it should be.
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Yall vote NO and i will make more money. :aok
Still think a yes with a healthy reform of wall street regulations will be the best long term, but as long as i can line my pocket with increased interest on my savings then so be it :)
we don't need more regulations, we need the government to quit tinkering. they made the mess by agreeing to back loans that should have never been made and would have never been made under normal RISK... the government, as i posted above, caused an orgy of irresponsibility
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If the banks fail won't the govt (and by extension YOU guys) be forced to pink up for the $100,000 insurance provided by the federal govt on deposits?
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Well, I'm sure you'll note that Pelosi couldn't resist getting one last shot in at Evil Boosh before the vote. Pissed off enough Republicans that it failed, at least that's what the talking heads are saying right now. WTG Pelosi eh?
I wasn't for it as written. Because this version failed doesn't mean there will be no bailout. What it means is that there's going to be a better version that protects the taxpayer to a larger degree and allows Richie Rich and his pals to take a double dose of the pain themselves. God forbid they have to sell the yatch! How will they get out to their private islands in the Med?
Now that the attempt to railroad this through on the backs of the Average Joe has failed, perhaps they'll settle down and write a fair bailout bill that doesn't punish the taxpayer for Richie Rich's screwup.
2/3rds of the rep's and 40% of the dems voted no. Thats a solid chunk of votes against this thing. Looks like they need to come up with a much better plan and I dont see that being done over night.They rushed it to get out and drum up election votes to stay in office.They dont pass this soon,they wont have an office to run for :)
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Do you understand that no one can borrow money right now? It's not just bad banks.. it's everyone.
I recently secured several million to grow one of my family business's services.
OH NOES THE SKY IZ FALLINGZ&^%!@# :huh :lol
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As a positive note, the bond market is up! Looks like people see the need to SAVE now lol
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I'd rather the bad fail, we go into a depression, and the voters crucify all the idiots in congress and put in people that are fiscally responsible. Sure would be a lot easier than giving out a trillion dollars to protect people with the yachts.
As for the people... oh well, if you are in debt and paying more than you can afford on a home, you will be in a world of crap. But, you can blame no one but yourself for being a stupid imbecile and putting yourself into that situation.
If you would rather see the banks of this country fail vs let this deal go through, it just shows how clueless you really are. No offense but if you really believe that, you really have no clue what it means.
A guy on TV said something just a min ago the describes this who thing. When you have a burning house, you don't stand around wondering who or what set it on fire. You put the fire out and ask questions later.
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If the banks fail won't the govt (and by extension YOU guys) be forced to pink up for the $100,000 insurance provided by the federal govt on deposits?
That's what these O clubers don't seem to understand. They are paying for it one way or another, they just want to blame someone rather than fix the problem.
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(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr130/tenthstream/tehgoofy.jpg)
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I recently secured several million to grow one of my family business's services.
OH NOES THE SKY IZ FALLINGZ&^%!@# :huh :lol
Try to do the same today..
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If you would rather see the banks of this country fail vs let this deal go through, it just shows how clueless you really are. No offense but if you really believe that, you really have no clue what it means.
A guy on TV said something just a min ago the describes this who thing. When you have a burning house, you don't stand around wondering who or what set it on fire. You put the fire out and ask questions later.
You're a hypocrite. You blamed the Bush administration for this from day one.
If the economy collapses, so be it. It will start again.
I can get by if it does. I will eat, still be able to pay my mortgage, and still heat my home. Times will be tight, but I will get by.
You limp wristed liberals that seem to think that my money needs to be spent without forethought can stick it where the sun does not shine. Screw you fools for failing to watch your spending habits and buying things you could not afford. This goes for government spending as well.
I am (and my fellow tax payers) are not a bank. We do not bail out rich investors that made mistakes. On the contrary, we could LOAN the money, but not give it.
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(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr130/tenthstream/tehgoofy.jpg)
LOL
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Do you understand that no one can borrow money right now? It's not just bad banks.. it's everyone.
I may possibly have as much to lose as anyone here from tight credit. I NEED to refinance my home and make another move or two with regards to my business. However, I am NOT willing to hand the government a check for 700 BILLION DOLLARS with no strings attached. And because of this, I may suffer several setbacks that I'd LOVE to avoid, because it may be difficult, if not impossible, to refinance my home, and get some breathing room and capital for my business needs.
First off, I'd be willing to bet a severe downturn in the economy can be avoided for FAR less, probably about 10% of what they're asking for.
Second, they don't NEED a bail out, they may need low interest loans. Hell, I have financial issues as well, but I have no right to expect anyone to GIVE me money to take care of those issues.
Third, like anything else, the solution is NOT to JUST throw money at the problem. Before we even LOAN them a DIME, before we guarantee another SINGLE loan or mortgage, we need to fix the ROOT PROBLEM.
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Crockett, no joke... this panic press is just trying to hammer this thing through. We need some other things in place to stimulate the economy before we the printing press at the fed... If we agree to the debt, then the dollar value goes deeper into the toilet and oil prices along with everything else, soars.
Thank God enough people in both parties said "Hey, not so fast there, Buck Rogers!"
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This bill deserves to DIE!!!!!
When I bought my house I was pre approved for up to $270,000 with no monny down. I bought a house for $98,000 because that's what I KNEW I could afford in the long run. My mortgage company was PISSED because I didn't use half of what they wanted to loan me and they tried for 3 weeks before I closed to pressure me to look for a bigger more expensive home.
If I had done so, I would be out of a house, in a huge financial mess because I wouldn't have been able to afford a more expensive home on a traditional 30 year note like I did the one I bought, and I would be smack in the middle of this mess.
The folks that are screaming this bail out is needed are the ones who have been living beyond their means and are now paying for it. Let them pay for it since it was the homeowners, the banks, and the government that allowed themsleves to get over extended in the first damn place.
LEARN a freaking lesson, and deal with it, because I don't want to keep bailing out people that can't think 10 minutes into the future when they make a major decision.
Anyone who gave those loans, took those loans, or had anything to do with those loans deserves to LOOSE everything, and then people like me who have demonstrated that we can afford what we buy, will come along eventually when you drop the price to where WE want it and buy those homes for ourselves and pay the bill every month and if your really lucky we mght let you rent, IF you can pass the credit check.
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I recently secured several million to grow one of my family business's services.
OH NOES THE SKY IZ FALLINGZ&^%!@# :huh :lol
See how this works...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
All is good..look at your investments...car bizz selling lots of cars
houses being sold like wildfire. Bankruptcies at an all time high. forclosers
all time high..stock Market at worst loss in its history.
Business closing left and right. Record breaking credit card debt.
ALL IS GOOD ALL IS GOOD.... :rolleyes:
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That's what these O clubers don't seem to understand. They are paying for it one way or another, they just want to blame someone rather than fix the problem.
We're gonna pay for it either way alright....I want us to get paid back!
Take a little time, set-up an RTC, and do it right. GIVING money away isn't fixing the problem!
What's wrong with loaning these guys the money, or can't they qualify for a loan!
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You're a hypocrite. You blamed the Bush administration for this from day one.
If the economy collapses, so be it. It will start again.
I can get by if it does. I will eat, still be able to pay my mortgage, and still heat my home. Times will be tight, but I will get by.
You limp wristed liberals that seem to think that my money needs to be spent without forethought can stick it where the sun does not shine. Screw you fools for failing to watch your spending habits and buying things you could not afford. This goes for government spending as well.
I am (and my fellow tax payers) are not a bank. We do not bail out rich investors that made mistakes. On the contrary, we could LOAN the money, but not give it.
With all due respect, if this gets as bad as many think, YOU won't be paying your mortgage. Your payroll will not go through.... credit/loans is where that comes from. Your personal credit cards... they're loans remember?...won't work. Try to buy a car.....nope.... house... nope.... money for school for your kids....nope.
If you are carrying ANY debt right now... you must call yourself PART of the problem. Not just Wall Street investors caused this problem.
I don't think many of you understand the gravity of the situation.
Also, was interested to note.... of those that voted against it..... around 98% are up for re-election. (on both sides)
It begins. Dow's down 725 right now. Friends in the financial sector have told me they wouldn't be surprised if we lost 1,200 points.
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If the banks fail won't the govt (and by extension YOU guys) be forced to pink up for the $100,000 insurance provided by the federal govt on deposits?
That is not as simple or as common as you might think. The FDIC only insures individual deposits of up to $100K.
There's not as much to be lost in individual deposits that actually are insured by the FDIC as you might think.
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When I bought my house I was pre approved for up to $270,000 with no monny down. I bought a house for $98,000 because that's what I KNEW I could afford in the long run.
I don't know where you live, but I paid 280k for mine because it's the lowest price I could find(lol, and I had to fix it up!!)
Houses in that range are still selling, though not as much(they are considered starter homes), it's the 600k-1m mcmansions that are sitting
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What's wrong with loaning these guys the money, or can't they qualify for a loan!
yeah, let's give them an interest only loan, w00t!!
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The FIRST thing to do about the economy and the possibility of government action to do something about it is to calm down and quit panicking like a bunch of freaked out fools. Just like the fuel shortages we had here after the hurricanes, the panic only serves to make the situation worse.
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I don't know where you live, but I paid 280k for mine because it's the lowest price I could find(lol, and I had to fix it up!!)
Houses in that range are still selling, though not as much(they are considered starter homes), it's the 600k-1m mcmansions that are sitting
See, that is the problem, home prices were also artificially inflated and when you double the price (opposed to value) of something, then loan 125% of that inflated price.... you are gonna have a problem down the road junior!
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I don't know where you live, but I paid 280k for mine because it's the lowest price I could find(lol, and I had to fix it up!!)
Houses in that range are still selling, though not as much(they are considered starter homes), it's the 600k-1m mcmansions that are sitting
Man where do you live! I don't think there is a house anywhere near me that values even close to 600k. I know of 1 that they want about 300k for, but its like 5bedroom 3 full bath, and has an inground pool with a 2 acre lot.
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The FIRST thing to do about the economy and the possibility of government action to do something about it is to calm down and quit panicking like a bunch of freaked out fools. Just like the fuel shortages we had here after the hurricanes, the panic only serves to make the situation worse.
AMEN! we still have gas outages/rationing/price gouging here in many parts of SC since the last hurricane that hit galveston.
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The FIRST thing to do about the economy and the possibility of government action to do something about it is to calm down and quit panicking like a bunch of freaked out fools. Just like the fuel shortages we had here after the hurricanes, the panic only serves to make the situation worse.
:aok
Yup. If there's a bailout, lets do it right. The world will wait.
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That is not as simple or as common as you might think. The FDIC only insures individual deposits of up to $100K.
There's not as much to be lost in individual deposits that actually are insured by the FDIC as you might think.
Something else to think about and it's already happened. People that spread their money across several accounts to get the 100k protection on each account were out of luck with indymac. The FDIC only covered the first 100k, reguardless if they had seprate accounts or not.
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If you have 100K, you aren't worried about groceries anytime soon lol.
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Something else to think about and it's already happened. People that spread their money across several accounts to get the 100k protection on each account were out of luck with indymac. The FDIC only covered the first 100k, reguardless if they had seprate accounts or not.
proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
Accounts in different banks would be covered.
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See, that is the problem, home prices were also artificially inflated and when you double the price (opposed to value) of something, then loan 25% of that inflated price.... you are gonna have a problem down the road junior!
Not a problem where I am at, time is on my side and I do ok. Now if I bought a 500k house, well, that would have really stretched me.
But yes, it was simple supply and demand. Everyone was getting a loan, so demand skyrocketed. And, of course, prices did too.
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Man where do you live! I don't think there is a house anywhere near me that values even close to 600k. I know of 1 that they want about 300k for, but its like 5bedroom 3 full bath, and has an inground pool with a 2 acre lot.
Saugus, ma, but if you really want to see expensive, search in Newton or Brookline. I got some mcmansions going up behind me in a new subdivision(like 200 yards away), i'll post a few pics. And they are selling too. They help the value of my house, but I am sure the assessor will notice
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Try to do the same today..
I don't discuss my particular moves, but it's much easier than you think. Low risk, good return, huge demand. It's almost as good as religion.
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you made the wise choice and bought what you could best afford. i understand supply and demand... but by the government tinkering and opening up loans to people who should not have gotten them, they raised the price on your home significantly... or kept you from affording a better home that you could have had for the same price. government interference with the free market nearly always ends in disaster
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apparently, we do not need to borrow anything else... We cannot borrow anything because we are a 70% consumer spending based economy... It does not take a rocket science major to figure out that an economy like that cannot stand. We have to retool the economy to re-energize manufacturing. For years (with the exception of ONLY my home and I put 40% down on it) I have lived by the rule that if i cannot put my hand in my pocket and pay the money for it, in full, i do not need it. I have done without many things and it hasnt hurt me yet.
Ive saved for things before buying them ever since i made my first $ Sure it has taken me longer to get a house of my own, a car and all the other things but when i got em it was mine and not on loan from a bank. Have never payed a $ in interest to any bank, but they have payed me for loaning my money. Im 33, debt free, fairly new house by the ocean, a car and two boats. Didint get either (incl a car that most kids borrow for as soon as they get their license) until i was 30 but thats the price I payed to owe money.
I dont spend what i havent got.
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we don't need more regulations, we need the government to quit tinkering. they made the mess by agreeing to back loans that should have never been made and would have never been made under normal RISK... the government, as i posted above, caused an orgy of irresponsibility
Yes to more regulations. Everyone knows that, even your government.
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Are they going to go after the independent housing appraiser market?
Loans would never be approved if appraisers didn't go along with the ball game.
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glad I diversified my 401k earlier this year. I'm actually making money!!! :D
I damn sure didn't want the bailout as written :rock
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Yall vote NO and i will make more money. :aok
Still think a yes with a healthy reform of wall street regulations will be the best long term, but as long as i can line my pocket with increased interest on my savings then so be it :)
Dude, if you indeed have alot of savings, then its time to get rich... Invest in houses or the stock market, take your pick. Let it fall another six months before you go in.
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Not true! I'm closing on a loan this Friday...
Have you talked to your bank jaged?
Neighbor just got a call- his business short term loan up 3% this week - he won't make payroll. Will need to layoff 20 guys this week, he floats his payroll weekly on outstanding income from his clients. He said his banker said most banks are going to that position, can't count on the future, what if your clients go under? he was asked. Overnight paper market runs this economy, and it is dried up solid.
Don't be surprised if your bank backs out of the loan, hope not for your sake, but be prepared.
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Yes to more regulations. Everyone knows that, even your government.
no, they are the people that caused the mess - i do not trust them to fix it. they need to get out of the way.
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LOL.. did you invest poorly?
The money is gone... the bill will not bring it back.
Actually no, I didn't invest poorly. I am also aware that the stock market has an impact on things far beyond just the day traders and stock brokers. I am also aware that the fall out can land a long ways away form the board room and the folks who stand to lose the most are those little guys who work for a living in any industry that has a tie to the market. That happens to be quite a few of them.
The losses to date are heavy. Refusing to stop the loses just guarantees additional losses of currently solvent operations due to the lack of liquid cash exchange possibilities and transactions. Business has to go on in order to have a market for anyone to be able to function. As soon as business starts to halt, the jobs will decline as we have already seen. A company that can't function makes no revenue, hires and pays no workers and provides no product. The market is more than just passing paper and counting stocks and involves more than just the stock of a single company or bank. All the other businesses related to that company will also take a hit further spiralling the impact outward. This situation will not stop at the NY stock Exchange property lines, it will continue for some time and spread accross the global markets. They are all integrated in the global economy and the impact of one will be felt in all of them.
It's all well and good to say the boat you are in sucks and we need a new one but if you don't stop the leaks you can't build the replacement once you are treading water. You might hate the captain and the engineering staff but that won't matter much when it sinks.
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you made the wise choice and bought what you could best afford. i understand supply and demand... but by the government tinkering and opening up loans to people who should not have gotten them, they raised the price on your home significantly... or kept you from affording a better home that you could have had for the same price. government interference with the free market nearly always ends in disaster
Oh, of course, I was trying to wait for the bubble to burst, but it was taking a long time, and I was starting to wonder how long it would be. So I bought low end(I worked for a contractor a long time and know a few I grew up with in other trades) and did some work to it.
It was what I called an equity driven economy. You see, a byproduct of all this was that people who owned their homes for a long time or were given one(inherit), all of a sudden had hundreds of thousands in equity to borrow. They put on additions, put up fences, bought a summer home, bought luxury vehicles(or two), bought boats, put in a new pool. They had all this equity to borrow and spend, and spend they did, like a wall street banker.
I think around here, at least in the nice areas, the values will rebound or stay the same. The places like Lawrence, Lowell, Brockton, the not so good areas where homes were really over valued, they will drop like a lead balloon, and already have.
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Man where do you live! I don't think there is a house anywhere near me that values even close to 600k. I know of 1 that they want about 300k for, but its like 5bedroom 3 full bath, and has an inground pool with a 2 acre lot.
S. Florida. Do a search on zip code 33157 and see what homes are selling for. This is a fairly average neighborhood. Anything in Coral Gables is about 40% more just because of the town name. Drive down the street and you'll see 500K to 2 million dollar homes. I walked through a 750K "fixer upper" just for giggles on an open house weekend. It's shocking.
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With all due respect, if this gets as bad as many think, YOU won't be paying your mortgage. Your payroll will not go through.... credit/loans is where that comes from. Your personal credit cards... they're loans remember?...won't work. Try to buy a car.....nope.... house... nope.... money for school for your kids....nope.
If you are carrying ANY debt right now... you must call yourself PART of the problem. Not just Wall Street investors caused this problem.
I don't think many of you understand the gravity of the situation.
My finances are in order. How about yours? I can pay my mortgage for four to five years based on what we have. I will have work one way or another for another five years minimum. If need be, one of us could work, and the other could concentrate on gathering, we would still be able to pay our bills. I can assure you that my wife will always be working as she is in a needed industry.
I understand the gravity of the situation quite well. I also am able to rely on myself, my wife, and our family and friends to survive if need be. Can you? Will you be able to survive off the environment among the 30 million in your state? I know we can especially considering the vastness of the west and our population density and the most important first culling if it is going to get as bad as I think.
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Something else to think about and it's already happened. People that spread their money across several accounts to get the 100k protection on each account were out of luck with indymac. The FDIC only covered the first 100k, reguardless if they had seprate accounts or not.
Can you provide a link to that?
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no, they are the people that caused the mess - i do not trust them to fix it. they need to get out of the way.
No it was the lack of regulations that allowed rotten loans to be pushed around the system. The warning lights have been flashing for a pretty long time but the financial market was left to do what it did because it was not correctly regulated and looked at.
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This is going to get passed one way or another. The problem is our politicians are in a fit to do something ANYTHING before they recess for elections so they are not engaging any brain matter on this.
You know our economy would heal itself with just twelve months of no income taxes. Congress isnt smart enough to see it though.
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Dude, if you indeed have alot of savings, then its time to get rich... Invest in houses or the stock market, take your pick. Let it fall another six months before you go in.
Im happy with the way im standing right now. Does not feel like the best time to get into the market again now. I will however have a look at the prices on appartments in Oslo closer to christmas. Prices are still falling abit and will continue for some time. The preassure on housing in central parts of Oslo will always continue to rise in the medium to long term, but i dont think the bottom has been reached just yet. If some interesting objects comes my way i may still take the chanse though. Not with borrowed money though.
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This is going to get passed one way or another.
Right, but by voting 'no' the first time, they can use it in their re-election bid.
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It's all well and good to say the boat you are in sucks and we need a new one but if you don't stop the leaks you can't build the replacement once you are treading water. You might hate the captain and the engineering staff but that won't matter much when it sinks.
When the hole in the boat is bigger than the bucket, it's time to get off the boat. The captain can go down, sinking with his ship is part of his time honored responsibility. Not letting the bum drown me is something I planned for. Like Nils sez, the warning lights have been flashing for quite awhile now... and damage control is over matched.
It's time to man the lifeboat stations, she's going down.
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Right, but by voting 'no' the first time, they can use it in their re-election bid.
So the next 2-3 times before the election will be for what? The problem the problem is taxation which is forcing more and more individuals to seek credit on an uncertain future. We founded this country on representation before taxation and freedom from fear of 'debtors prison' so now we are taxed without adequate representation the banks and government enter into contractual agreements for 'the benefit of the poor' on our behalf and the only people that have to fear consequences (the prison of financial collapse) are the tax payers.
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Well they succeeded in killing the bill it seems for the time being. The market has responded. I hope those that thought the idea was not good can celebrate with the more than 700 point downturn in the market today. Losing 400 points in 10 minutes is really nice isn't it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street
Nice job there looking out for the country and the economy.
:huh
The bail out bill is enough to give everyone over 18 in America 5 Million dollars. Thats a bit TOO much.
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No it was the lack of regulations that allowed rotten loans to be pushed around the system. The warning lights have been flashing for a pretty long time but the financial market was left to do what it did because it was not correctly regulated and looked at.
The rotten loans were made because the government said it would back those high risk loans... the removal of the RISK caused the problems, not deregulation. Had each bank been risking their money on those loans, the housing prices wouldnt have soared because the crappy loans would not have been written
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When the hole in the boat is bigger than the bucket, it's time to get off the boat. The captain can go down, sinking with his ship is part of his time honored responsibility. Not letting the bum drown me is something I planned for. Like Nils sez, the warning lights have been flashing for quite awhile now... and damage control is over matched.
It's time to man the lifeboat stations, she's going down.
Sorry but the vote didn't allow for lifeboat deployment, it wouldn't matter anyhow as they are in no better condition. It's getting close to tread water time and frankly I think the captain can stay up longer than most of us, yourself included.
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From my Congressman on the house floor today:
"I understand the need to act and I understand the urge to act quickly. We must restore the flow of credit. I firmly subscribe to the belief that “Main Street” and Wall Street are inextricably linked. Instability in the financial markets leads to instability in taxpayers’ personal accounts and their personal funds. Meanwhile, that capital that flows through our financial markets is vital to the continued success of our businesses, large and small. We should all agree that a failure of our credit markets would be an enormous catastrophe, and the government does have a role in ensuring that the financial markets function soundly.
"At the same time, we cannot allow the American taxpayers to become the insurance policy for financial decisions that did not turn out as planned. Whether you’re talking about someone from South Carolina who took a mortgage they couldn’t afford or a Wall Street banker who financed that loan, we see just how important personal responsibility must be to American society, and I fear that this legislation erodes that accountability – and the freedom that comes with it.
"Unfortunately, our government is in debt. And we are in a lot of debt, both as a government and as a nation. In fact, this whole crisis is built around debt, where too much bad debt has caused an inability to get new credit – otherwise known as debt. My daddy always told me that you can’t borrow your way out of debt, and he was right.
"There are other reasonable options that we should explore to help the markets heal themselves and that would not burden our country under even greater mounds of debt. I was pushing for a plan that would use more free market principles such as a suspension of the capital gains tax and incentives for repatriation of earnings, o help spur economic growth by helping all Americans whose retirement accounts are invested in the stock market, or who own a house, or a business and jump start the flow of funds back into the system.
"There is no doubt that we find ourselves in a precarious situation and people are angry, rightly so. I am angry. But we must not allow this anger to cloud our judgment, and make choices that will divide our country. This is not a matter of Wall Street versus Main Street.""
"But when it becomes time to vote on this bill, I will be voting no. I understand my colleagues for their reasoning, and I am confident that we all want to do what's best for the country. But, because I believe so strongly in the principles of the free market and the belief in freedom, I will be opposing this bill. My fear is that today the government will be forever changing the face of the American free market."
He voted NO, thankfully.
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The bail out bill is enough to give everyone over 18 in America 5 Million dollars. Thats a bit TOO much.
Uh...no. It'd be roughly 9 grand per adult over 18.
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Well, the thing is, if we allow panic to force us into this insane, poorly thought out "bail out", we may only prolong and exacerbate the problem.
I have yet to speak with or listen to anyone who has convinced me that we MUST hand over $700 BILLION without a clear and well defined plan on how it will be spent, how we will be repaid, and how the problem will be solved, and prevented from happening again. Until such a plan exists, as much as I hate to see the economy suffer, I cannot and will not support ANY "bail out".
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So the next 2-3 times before the election will be for what? The problem the problem is taxation which is forcing more and more individuals to seek credit on an uncertain future. We founded this country on representation before taxation and freedom from fear of 'debtors prison' so now we are taxed without adequate representation the banks and government enter into contractual agreements for 'the benefit of the poor' on our behalf and the only people that have to fear consequences (the prison of financial collapse) are the tax payers.
What, you think the people who voted 'no' won't use it as ammunition for re-election?
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crockett.. why is it a partisan issue? Why do you always go for the party line jugular? Toss yer democrat suit out, and use yer own brain... if you have one. This is not a partisan issue. The guy leading the fight against this in the house is an honest 11 term democrat.
Hey Hey Hey! "What's with all the hostility?? " :rofl
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I don't have a problem with the government making interest free loans to bail out some of these companies, even if they are a higher risk than most private lenders would find 'viable'. I do have a problem with the government dumping that much money, without oversight, into a market already rife with corruption possibly making inflation much worse.
What some of you left wing nuts have to realize is that you cannot fix a problem by throwing money at it.
What some of you right wing nuts have to realize is to do nothing would cause the economy to drop like a stone, hurting those that have retired the most. You want to show a little appreciation for the 'Greatest Generation'? Now is the time...
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Well, the thing is, if we allow panic to force us into this insane, poorly thought out "bail out", we may only prolong and exacerbate the problem.
I have yet to speak with or listen to anyone who has convinced me that we MUST hand over $700 BILLION without a clear and well defined plan on how it will be spent, how we will be repaid, and how the problem will be solved, and prevented from happening again. Until such a plan exists, as much as I hate to see the economy suffer, I cannot and will not support ANY "bail out".
What you've really gotta worry about, Virg, is that they will throw some riders of some kind on to the existing Bailout bill, push it back in front of congress, and get it to pass. Whatever the riders (Anything from Pork-Barrel spending, you name it) you still get stuck with the same bad idea, at the core. Watch the next proposal really carefully.
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The bail out bill is enough to give everyone over 18 in America 5 Million dollars. Thats a bit TOO much.
That math is from what planet?
EDIT:
Uh...no. It'd be roughly 9 grand per adult over 18.
Oh there it is...
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What some of you left wing nuts have to realize is that you cannot fix a problem by throwing money at it.
Umm, where were you the last eight years?
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The bail out bill is enough to give everyone over 18 in America 5 Million dollars. Thats a bit TOO much.
Please provide the numbers and math used to arrive at such a ridiculous claim.
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I gotta laugh at the federally insured 100k...lolol...we owe China 500 billion
Dollars. If the sheet hits the fan our government will not have the money to cover
this situation. So you can take the Federal insured issue and throw it in the toilet
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HURRAY! This is great news!
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The bail out bill is enough to give everyone over 18 in America 5 Million dollars. Thats a bit TOO much.
Did you fail math class?
Assume 200 million adults above 18.
$700 billion divided by 200 million people is $3500.
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We can handle a re-adjustment. A government induced depression that lasts a decade and leaves us with a nationalized banking system is failure.
Freedom means a free market. Enforce fraud legislation. SEC should do it's job.
We should do ours.
VOTE NO!
Right On :aok
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700 Billion divided amoug 305,284,000 people would be about $2,292.95 regardless of age. Of course the IRS would tax that, 30%, so subract about $687 from that, would give you $1605 per man, woman, and child. wowowow, have a party...
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heard the dollar is up and oil is down so it aint all bad ...
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It begins. Dow's down 725 right now. Friends in the financial sector have told me they wouldn't be surprised if we lost 1,200 points.
That'll be fine.
Don't forget that the trading of stocks is the same artificially inflated circle jerk roadkill that the trading of houses or loans is.
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Back in early July of 2007, my financial adviser (a screwball genius named Kevin) suggested pulling all of my investments out of stocks and mutual funds.
"My analysis," he said, "indicates that the mortgage market is going to tank over lots of bad paper".
"That's your gut reaction?"
"No, that's my analysis. My gut reaction is that the housing toilet is going to be flushed and I don't want my clients on the seat when it does. Most of the big banks and investment houses are waste deep with sub-prime paper. It's time to get out."
I took his advice and by the end of the month, I was 90% liquid, IE: In cash. We left some in precious metals and some in oil and gas. With gold way up and oil still well above what it was a year ago, these are doing well enough. Although we jumped out about 3 months sooner than we should have, I'm not complaining.
So, now we wait for the market to bottom; make sure it's not just a momentary bounce. At that point, we go back in and buy.
I see nothing but opportunity for those with ready cash.
My regards,
Widewing
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Hep Me, Hep Me,,, where my check is? Lawd lawd lawd, gumment check didnt go through,,, what we gonna do... :rolleyes:
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Does this mean my slave reparations check will be delayed? I got bills u white folks are making me pay. +my white wife keeps spending my gambling earnings (I can roll some dice).
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As one of the few OC Liberals (with a capital L please) - I simply wonder what the economy "failing" looks like. Maybe we need a picture of the Treasury with the word "FAIL" on it for the fail thread.
What happens if we don't buy bad debt from banks? They have to declare Chapter 11, and become insolvent? The FBI files hundreds of cases of fraud based on the method the bank used to hide the amount of leverage they were carrying? Is that a bad thing?
That may not be a bad thing. Pull a caravan of paddy wagons up to Wall Street and start filing them in.
I agree! Oh no, we won't drive newer cars. Oh no, we'll have to live or stay in our fixer upper. Oh no, I'll have to work until I can't anymore.
Life is more than what money brings or no.
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watching Ron Paul during bail-out debate,i think he got a huge influence on senators and congressmen for "NO" vote: this guy has more brain than Obama and Mc.Cain combined, too bad for USA and rest of the world he doesn't run for White House anymore.
Congressman Ron Paul Schools Bernanke on the Bailout Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6rQ0U01Yc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6rQ0U01Yc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ticytEUvVhQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ticytEUvVhQ)
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“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
Andrew Jackson
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Hep Me, Hep Me,,, where my check is? Lawd lawd lawd, gumment check didnt go through,,, what we gonna do... :rolleyes:
What does making stereotypes have to do with this thread?
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“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
Andrew Jackson
Here Here
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Well, I'm sure you'll note that Pelosi couldn't resist getting one last shot in at Evil Boosh before the vote. Pissed off enough Republicans that it failed, at least that's what the talking heads are saying right now. WTG Pelosi eh?
Pelosi isnt just a liar. she's a damned liar.
The " moron" Bush. Introduced a bill for oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back in Sept of 2003.
Sept 11, 2003 to be exact
The bill was defeated by house Democrats.
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“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
Andrew Jackson
Thing was with Jackson. Everyone knew he had the stones to do exactly what he said.
He wasnt one to make idle threats just for the sake of sounding good and hearing himself talk.
Problem is. I currently know of no politician who has the kind of stones Jackson had
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Pelosi isnt just a liar. she's a damned liar.
The " moron" Bush. Introduced a bill for oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back in Sept of 2003.
Sept 11, 2003 to be exact
The bill was defeated by house Democrats.
New York Times article on that very subject.
"Published: September 11, 2003
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
The rest of the story...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63)
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New York Times article on that very subject.
"Published: September 11, 2003
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
The rest of the story...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63)
And the rest of the rest of the story (from the same article--
''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.
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Thing was with Jackson. Everyone knew he had the stones to do exactly what he said.
He wasnt one to make idle threats just for the sake of sounding good and hearing himself talk.
Problem is. I currently know of no politician who has the kind of stones Jackson had
Your prolly right Dred.....just found it a great quote for the current situation we the people find ourselves in. Something we don't or didn't anyway , have control of. Im very ticked that so many people are sitting on tons of money made now at our expense. Something seems very wrong that they will keep all they have....while many wont keep chit.
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And the rest of the rest of the story (from the same article--
Right.
and Pelosi claims it was all due to current administration policy.
Think she needs to worry about cleaning her own house before she tries to point at how dirty someone elses is
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Your prolly right Dred.....just found it a great quote for the current situation we the people find ourselves in. Something we don't or didn't anyway , have control of. Im very ticked that so many people are sitting on tons of money made now at our expense. Something seems very wrong that they will keep all they have....while many wont keep chit.
Oh hell yes it absolutely fits!
Sadly though. we dont currently have an Andrew Jackson
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O'CLUB NEWSHOUR
"Good evening. Big light in sky slated to appear over Wall Street, sonic booms scare minority groups in sector R, and there's hamburger all over the highway in Mystic Connecticut.
Those were the headlines, and now for the rumors behind the news..
There's lynch mobs forming up in front of Barney Frank's mansion, while other ranking senate democrats drop out of sight for the holiday break. Sources report that Warren Buffet has hired Blackwater for personal security. Meanwhile, Secretary of the Treasury Paulson has a jet on standby over at Andrews with an open ended flight plan to the Cayman Islands.
In other news, Guillotine stock just went thru the roof..
Stay tuned, film at 11:00"
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O'CLUB NEWSHOUR
"Good evening. Big light in sky slated to appear over Wall Street, sonic booms scare minority groups in sector R, and there's hamburger all over the highway in Mystic Connecticut.
Those were the headlines, and now for the rumors behind the news..
There's lynch mobs forming up in front of Barney Frank's mansion, while other ranking senate democrats drop out of sight for the holiday break. Sources report that Warren Buffet has hired Blackwater for personal security. Meanwhile, Secretary of the Treasury Paulson has a jet on standby over at Andrews with an open ended flight plan to the Cayman Islands.
In other news, Guillotine stock just went thru the roof..
Stay tuned, film at 11:00"
hahahahaha :aok
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“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
Andrew Jackson
Great quote. Wasn't Jackson the last president to eliminate the national debt?
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Great quote. Wasn't Jackson the last president to eliminate the national debt?
That would be Clinton.
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No, clinton got rid of the annual budget deficit... not the national debt
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Great quote. Wasn't Jackson the last president to eliminate the national debt?
Not gonna spin it to fit ya....You can say what ever ya like...but those words fit.
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No, clinton got rid of the annual budget deficit... not the national debt
See, I learned somethin. :aok
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"I place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." - Thomas Jefferson
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"I place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." - Thomas Jefferson
Yes! So where's the outcry over central banking and fractional reserve lending?
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I think you just heard some! LOL
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so we buy the bad debt then we sell it too the highest bidder , later when it defaults?,
or we don,t buy the bad debt and we let the highest bidder buy it first, how do we lose by staying out again? bad investments are just bad, unless you own them then they are worse!
vote no !!
and if you are losing in this deal then i am truly sorry,
but i don.t remember the gov. coming to save me the last time i made a bad decision,
and i guarantee you the snake oil salesmen had me make a few!!!
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The House showed us why you have a Senate ...... madhouse vs lethargic consideration
I actually listened to Pelosi's speech .... she didn't attack "Republicans" as such, she attacked *Booosh* and his administration (which only a few Republicans still think of as representing Republicans). That said, her need to do that at that moment was stupid ... and the Republicans harumphing away was stupid. But I also think the ones who voted YES were being stupid.
This puppy of a bill stinks..... and the twinks that came up with it might shouldn't be involved in reworking it