Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Steve on November 03, 2008, 01:59:54 AM
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Seems like some old definitions are getting skewed a bit. The traditional, generally accepted definition of a pick is when you kill someone who is already engaged in a 1v1 or even fight. Even then, to be a pick in it's pure sense, the kill would be when neither your target or your teammate has a clear advantage.
Still, shooting someone off a friendly's 6 in a 1v1 is considered a pick by some. My personal opinion is that this is a pick but perhaps a warranted one.. YMMV and that's ok. :salute
Getting bounced, while un-engaged, without another enemy icon in range, in a sector you have decisive air superiority is in no way a pick. I've seen this, or close to it, quite a bit lately. It's a bounce, not a pick. The target has a momentary lapse of SA(we all do this) and gets shot down. Bummer... but not a pick.
Tazz is a good guy, and he hails from a great squad, but I happened to save this film last night so I'm using it as my example. :salute
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick1.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick2.jpg)
Neither is this, from the same pass:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick3.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick3a.jpg)
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Personally, cant see anything wrong with that, at all. Nice job in my opinion.
<S>
Wurzel
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Clearing a bunch of cons off a friendlies six is one thing. But diving in to a fight that is obviously 1v1 or when more then one friendly on a single con and you come in as the third or fourth attacker is just a pick.
If you come across a friendly in trouble and they ask for help fine, if not learn some ACM and find your own fight.
Defending squaddies is the only exception in my book.
Flying a low eny ride and still needing picks for kills/score is about as lame and dweeb as it gets.
<S>...-Gixer
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Steve i have killed nme cons when i was only friendly in area fighting multiple cons, yes i had alt, but was accused of "picking" them. i got quite the laugh off of that one.
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If I were the guy whom was shot down by steve after this, I would have let him know, "thank you for the excellent fight" "it was truely fun for the both of us, wish I could have fights like this all the time"
".s steve"
:D
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Agree with Steve far too many guys cry pick when it blatantly isn't.
If someone is above you and ready to kill you that is your fault. If you don't see them and move out of the way that is your fault. If they kill you its YOUR fault. Don't resort to calling out poop to save face.
Picking is all about getting another guy when he is fighting someone else.
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What it is, is sometime over the years people started to think any kill where you had alt and dove in was a pick. Iv had people say after killing me while I was on someone wasn't a pick because we were co alt.
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It seems that when people think there are some kind of "rules of engagement" some people, in their frustration, tend to find fault in other people on that basis -not to mention all kinds of curious interpretations of those said "rules" that happen to fit their state of mind at that moment. :rolleyes:
I have never expected anybody to hold fire because I was engaged with the target. If the target is not dead by the time the faster and better positioned attacker gets there I expect him to kill it. Its my own fault if I could not kill the target in due time.
-C+
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Well Steve seeing as you brought up this topic maybe you could clear something up for me.
So what is it called when your wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** has painted "SHOOT HERE" and a big "BULLSEYE" on your plane?
Then your wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** insists that you get the glory of being the first to drop down from alt and engage the enemy, not by shooting at them (firing your guns before your wingman is in position is forbidden), but by dropping into the horde, dumping all your E and getting the gaggle (because your wingman only sends you into groups of 3 or more, and not usually less than 5) to slow turn fight with you?
Is it considered to be picking when this aforementioned wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** booms in and repeatedly shoots down the slow tuning planes chasing and attempting to kill you, the slow turning pilot that first dropped into the horde (adoringly nicknamed BAIT by his wingman)?
Would those enemy pilots being shot down be justified in saying they were "picked"? does that scenario constitute a picking party?
Is this a bad wingman tactic?
Jetsom swears by it, is he wrong?
FLOTSOM
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Well flotsom the easy way to get him to stop it is to not go down and rescue him. :)
Personally I'd call it wingman tactics, or flying bait, and let it go at that.
Sucks when someone else does it to you, but its a valid tactic IMO.
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Picking or as once known as Cherry Picking is, shooting a con already engaged in a fight then returning to the perch to rins repeat on the next ENGAGED con. It is not to be confused with "drag and bag". A situation where a friendly or wingman deliberately drags a con on his six to be shot.
How the ego conceals it's embarrassment is to wrongly claim the disadvantage. An overall excuse to express to others, who don't care anyway, that some how the odds were stacked overwhelming against them and the outcome inevitable.
As I said to some geezer the other day....they wouldn't know a pick if it came out their nose. His argument was I came in 10k over his fleet and dropped to the deck to kill him. The fact that we were the only 2 there and I lost an aileron to puffy ack which concluded in a turn fight on the deck for 2 min, was some how derisory to his "picker" claim :rofl
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I came in 10k over his fleet and dropped to the deck to kill him.
That is clearly not a pick. It is quite obvious to anyone with any sense at all that you are not a picker at all, you are an altitude monkey! People need to get their terms straight! :rofl
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That is clearly not a pick. It is quite obvious to anyone with any sense at all that you are not a picker at all, you are an altitude monkey! People need to get their terms straight! :rofl
You tell him PF!!!
:salute
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cheeky buggers
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That is clearly not a pick. It is quite obvious to anyone with any sense at all that you are not a picker at all, you are an altitude monkey! People need to get their terms straight! :rofl
my understanding of a "pick" was/is that the "picker" comes in high over the fight, and simply waits for someone low in the furball, to make a mistake, or to wander out of the furball, drops, shoots, and goes back up high to await the next mistake.
if no one makes this mistake for him, then he picks one that seems to be fixated on his target, and blasts through the furball, guns blazing....again returning to the relative safety of his perch.
i almost want to call it the same if you're dropping in on a 1-1 fight, although that is more of "clearing a countrymans six", depending on the situation. i always ask my countryman if he needs/wants help before going into their fight.
now, all that being said, i DO realize that if/when i get picked, it's my own fault. it is also very difficult to keep an eye on those pickers when you're in a furball, and already trying to track multiple cons(which i suck at so far). it's a bit easier when you're in a 1-1, though.
as for those screenshots.......whelp..defi nitly not a pick......more of a boom n zoom tactic it looks like. and yes, it appears as it was their own fault for not looking 'round. i only WISH i could hit something while doing over 500mph. but then, i tend to not fly the planes that go that fast.
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I think a good way to define the cherry pick is asking yourself if you could have got that kill on your own. If the answer is "no, i needed the other friendly there to get that kill" then its probably a pick. Classic example are the dweebs who run like mad till you are bored then turn back when you go looking for a real fight.
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From Aces High Radio Terminology (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/abbreviations/abbreviations.htm)
cherry (pick) - Attacking an enemy already engaged with another plane
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just shoot the red guys, de-tune 200, and have fun....pretty effin simple. (I leave 200 on because it's funny to here all the pick and HO whines)....so I guess just shoot the red guys and have fun.
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Steve:
De-tune 200, you are obviously way too concerned with the various remarks griefers make. The anonymity of the internet combined with natural human self-centeredness and frustration over getting shot down is a breeding ground for this sort of unsportsmanlike conduct, so just don't subject yourself to it. Problem solved.
You know, on this subject, you know, I've never seen the following rules for the MA written down in the MOTD or anywhere elsewhere
1. You shall not attack from superior altitude.
2. You shall not attack with superior numbers.
3. You shall not kill by surprise.
4. You shall not shoot from the front-quarter.
5. You shall not bug out.
Etc, and so forth. If we were to all agree to these rules for the MAs, I will dutifully follow them, but of course they are not part of MA play, never will be, and everyone would complain if they were.
MA is not a mano-a-mano "duel". This is a critical point. Only rarely is the MA truly an isolated "you vs. someone else" conflict. Most of the time it is a "you vs. the entire environment" conflict-Every weapon, stratagem, and dirty trick the enemy can use to shoot you down is liable to be used against you. Return the favor. The point is to knock down the enemy a/c by whatever means possible.
With that the whole "pick" term needs to go away. One of three things happened for any kill called a "pick": You cleared a friendlies six or you and a friendly teamed up to down a bandit. This is a good thing. You bounced an unaware bandit and got him, also a good thing.
The third possibility is that you more or less "stole" a kill from a friendly. This is the only one that is not clearly a positively good result. After all, you might need that guy you just pissed off to clear your six at some point. But clearly, there is already a pejorative for this action, "kill stealing", so even here the term "pick" is useless.
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I think a good way to define the cherry pick is asking yourself if you could have got that kill on your own. If the answer is "no, i needed the other friendly there to get that kill" then its probably a pick. Classic example are the dweebs who run like mad till you are bored then turn back when you go looking for a real fight.
HEH......
that sounds like the ponyb that was running from my hellkitty.....he blew all his e, and couldn't climb away from me, at about 1 or 2 k alt. my crapp gunnery let him accelerate out of guns range, so i did a climbing right turn to go back to where i knew there was a fight......a look behind me shows the spit diving from abot 8k to 10k(that he was trying to drag me to) and that same ponyb comming back after me. i returned his favor by dragginf him through ack......twice. :rofl :rofl
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Why defend yourself against such ignorance?
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I forgot one..."Thou shalt not drag a foe through ack". Nope, never seen that one written down either.
Hellcat turns better of course, but then again, another rule I've never seen is "Thou shalt not engage the foe in a more maneuverable aircraft.", spitwhining notwithstanding.
So it sounds like another day in the MA. Everyone did their best to survive the sortie and knock the other guy out the sky, and no one has a reason to complain or a leg to stand on when pointing fingers.
HEH......
that sounds like the ponyb that was running from my hellkitty.....he blew all his e, and couldn't climb away from me, at about 1 or 2 k alt. my crapp gunnery let him accelerate out of guns range, so i did a climbing right turn to go back to where i knew there was a fight......a look behind me shows the spit diving from abot 8k to 10k(that he was trying to drag me to) and that same ponyb comming back after me. i returned his favor by dragginf him through ack......twice. :rofl :rofl
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I forgot one..."Thou shalt not drag a foe through ack". Nope, never seen that one written down either.
Hellcat turns better of course, but then again, another rule I've never seen is "Thou shalt not engage the foe in a more maneuverable aircraft.", spitwhining notwithstanding.
So it sounds like another day in the MA. Everyone did their best to survive the sortie and knock the other guy out the sky, and no one has a reason to complain or a leg to stand on when pointing fingers.
i don't really like the dragging through ack thing......either doing it or having it done to me......but in this case i felt he deserved it. :aok
i was pretty happy tht i managed to dodge his initial attacks, and thought it was someone good enough that i was in for a great fight, till the 1.5 sector extension.
i used to whine about the spits, till i drove a couple. now i understand more that it takes skill to fly em....just DIFFERENT skill than the hellcat, and it shines in a lot of the types of fights we have here in the ma's.
it's not the plane, but rather the pilot.
i get picked, it's my own dam fault....99% of the time.
i get ho'd...same, although i used to be able to avoid em better than i can now. it seems as if there;s guys getting better at hitting you in the ho, no matter how you try to avoid. now, i spend a couple minutes trying to set up a merge...if i see the guy continually try to set up for what even remotly looks like a ho(specially if he's in a cannon bird like the hoicane) then i go elsewhere to find a fight as my time ingame is too limited to deal with hotards.
i don't mind runners, as sometimes they extend, turn, and then the fight is on.
same with pickers.....quite often, they;l do a couple picks, then come down, and play.....again, a good fight usually ensues.
on the other hand, i have haD my cartoon arse handed to my by ponys in turn fights........the hellcat for me is my step outta the easier planes, and i've been venturing into the p38s lately.....so i'm dieing much more now :rofl
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I think a good way to define the cherry pick is asking yourself if you could have got that kill on your own. If the answer is "no, i needed the other friendly there to get that kill" then its probably a pick. Classic example are the dweebs who run like mad till you are bored then turn back when you go looking for a real fight.
I couldn't even get off the ground by myself. If I was the only Knit player in the game, when I logged on there would be like 200 bish hanging over the last uncaptured knit field, with it de-acked, waiting to vulch me.
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everyone just bail and then slug it out with your .45's
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everyone just bail and then slug it out with your .45's
:rofl :rofl
wonder how that would turn out?
would be hillarious to see!!
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that might not be a bad idea, everyone up over TT and hide in the city from each other using only your pistols, Count me in.... sounds fun....MISSION UP!!!
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but wouldn't the guys still in the chutes coming down on those on the ground technically be picking them, would it still be a ho if you shot someone in the face, what if you wait until you could sneak up behind them, wouldn't that be a vulch? what would be proper GCM(ground combat maneuvers)? (or would you call it FCM foot combat maneuver)
Damn i have a headache now!
FLOTSOM
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HERE HERE!
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Steve:
De-tune 200, you are obviously way too concerned with the various remarks griefers make.
You may be right but I didn't mean to imply that Tazz is a griefer. Merely that he appears to have a misconception of what a pick is. I wasn't upset that he called me a picker, either. I do my share of ranting on 200.
:salute
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Well Steve seeing as you brought up this topic maybe you could clear something up for me.
So what is it called when your wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** has painted "SHOOT HERE" and a big "BULLSEYE" on your plane?
Then your wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** insists that you get the glory of being the first to drop down from alt and engage the enemy, not by shooting at them (firing your guns before your wingman is in position is forbidden), but by dropping into the horde, dumping all your E and getting the gaggle (because your wingman only sends you into groups of 3 or more, and not usually less than 5) to slow turn fight with you?
Is it considered to be picking when this aforementioned wingman **cough (jetsom) cough** booms in and repeatedly shoots down the slow tuning planes chasing and attempting to kill you, the slow turning pilot that first dropped into the horde (adoringly nicknamed BAIT by his wingman)?
Would those enemy pilots being shot down be justified in saying they were "picked"? does that scenario constitute a picking party?
Is this a bad wingman tactic?
Jetsom swears by it, is he wrong?
FLOTSOM
damm FLOTSOMs waking up to my evil plan... er FLOTSOM i was ahhh just showing you how to ingage multiple targets... ya thats it... multiple targets....
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I wana know how u play aceshigh and freaken poker at the same time..
ur landing 5..6kills in aceshigh and at the SAME time getting a full house in texas holdem.. WTF steve.. cmon now.. one or another.. dont be greedy :)
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Picker :noid
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Unfortunately steve, there's always going to be variations of what individuals define as a pick, HO, vulch. Today i was accused of ho-ing (which in fairness i do), but i was pretty sure it was a clean rope- i checked the film later and sure enough he was hanging on his prop at 40mph. Sure i shot him in the face, but i wouldn't consider it a HO considering he had no opportunity get a guns solution on me.
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if i were flying in real combat and i had somebody shooting at me,i would certainly want some one to shoot him.no matter 1v1 or 1v100.in game or real life.thats what wingmen r for.and thats what squads r for. :salute
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aww... I can't edit my post i was gonna throw this up
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/thrila/rope.jpg)
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STEVE: Pilots that yell 'pick' or 'weak' or 'whatever' (whatever?) are in my mind at least just making excuses for themselves.
For instance: If I am flying loose wingman tactics with my squad and we sandwich one guy between two of us then the guy that shoots the guy in the back 'picks' him when he chooses to HO rather then evade? Hardly.
I am not going to stop doing what we are doing because one guy didnt like the way he died and I dont think you should worry about it either.
I know what you mean though. I zoomed through a party of three yesterday from their low six and they all saw it coming and tried to get evasive it just didnt work and... 'PICKER!' 200 had been pretty clean up until that point... oh well.
Carry on. :salute
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(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280/bucky626/who_cares_03.gif?t=1225774945)
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Ok here is my 2 cents :lol STFU you crybaby punks about picks in the MA :rock Learn some SA and if u want a fair 1 on 1 go to the DA and plan it :O If I get a shot I will take it pick or not in the MA....SO will every one else :aok If you want to fly like a super fair person go to the DA and plan a 1 on 1 at equal alt... Oh no I got picked u pick tard :lol Its ur own fault if U get picked in the MA..There are people that just pick but thats just the way it is so suck it up ,and deal with it u F!!!##! WUSSY'S :salute
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Ok here is my 2 cents :lol STFU you crybaby punks about picks in the MA :rock Learn some SA and if u want a fair 1 on 1 go to the DA and plan it :O If I get a shot I will take it pick or not in the MA....SO will every one else :aok If you want to fly like a super fair person go to the DA and plan a 1 on 1 at equal alt... Oh no I got picked u pick tard :lol Its ur own fault if U get picked in the MA..There are people that just pick but thats just the way it is so suck it up ,and deal with it u F!!!##! WUSSY'S :salute
ya, 'cause when your in a furball, tracking/avoiding 5+ cons, it's sooooo easy to see the guy screaming in at 500+ mph from 10k alt. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Yep, I see them every single time errrrrrrrrrrr ;) - Trig has a point tho, its your own SA that has let ya down, or a decision that you've made thats put you in the position. (Trust me, I should know about this :D :D :D)
Wurzel
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Yep, I see them every single time errrrrrrrrrrr ;) - Trig has a point tho, its your own SA that has let ya down, or a decision that you've made thats put you in the position. (Trust me, I should know about this :D :D :D)
Wurzel
OOOO..
i wasn't saying it isn't my own fault when i get picked.........was just being a wise arse on that last statement. :D
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-On.gif)
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Steve you obviously do not understand cherry-picking.
There are 2 conditions:
1) Somebody is shot down
2) They whine
In this particular case, obviously both conditions were met.
Hooligan
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Steve you obviously do not understand cherry-picking.
There are 2 conditions:
1) Somebody is shot down
2) They whine
In this particular case, obviously both conditions were met.
Hooligan
they weren't engaged with an enemy though, which makes it as steve said, a "bounce" or a bnz :noid
i admire someone that can hit at 500+ though.
i was looking at a couple of films, where i tried that, and not only did i miss horribly, but i had trouble recovering the dive, and blew most of my e doing so.
what worked a lil better for me was to dive under them(banking on them not looking..which they weren't), cut the throttle to idle, and come up from their 6 low. not only did i have a slightly larger profile to shoot at, but had they looked straight back, they'd have not seen me. i STILL didn't take him out in that first pass, but i did however hurt him badly enough, that it was only a matter of time.
i just seem to do best in the furballs when i don't have time to actually aim, but rather just get those quick passing shots.
<<S>>
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See Rules #2. #5
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i only WISH i could hit something while doing over 500mph. but then, i tend to not fly the planes that go that fast.
its a ball, had a nice snapshot (mostly luck, and i guess good timing and SA) on a spit 16's wing. i couldnt see him (no, i dont ever page up, dont ask why, preference) had no clue he would be there (other than a damn well educated guess, and maybe some expiernece) and i let lose, thought i missed him till i pulled out and saw one part go this way, him the other :devil i tuned 200 just to see if hed say anything, but nothing :cry
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its a ball, had a nice snapshot (mostly luck, and i guess good timing and SA) on a spit 16's wing. i couldnt see him (no, i dont ever page up, dont ask why, preference) had no clue he would be there (other than a damn well educated guess, and maybe some expiernece) and i let lose, thought i missed him till i pulled out and saw one part go this way, him the other :devil i tuned 200 just to see if hed say anything, but nothing :cry
now THAT'S funny!
maybe i'll learn....if i have the time to climb that high to attain that speed. i can and do sometimes, but not often enough, as my time is somewhat limited....at least till i can afford to hire someone....then i'll d/l the game onto m shop computer too. :rofl
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I have better luck with the BnZ thing if I time my dive so I come down below and behind them and shoot on the way up. I'm not sure why but it works better for me that way.
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when your coming up to them, they cant see you, your in their blind spot SD
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Yeah that's kind of what I thought too, but you'd think they would have seen me screaming down from 15k behind them too.
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I have better luck with the BnZ thing if I time my dive so I come down below and behind them and shoot on the way up. I'm not sure why but it works better for me that way.
that was what i mentioned that i tried once or twice. had my gunnery been better, it would have worked excellently.
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ive never tried it, only because if im gonna kill em, i want em ded, im not toying with my food with others around, how i always lose kills, or die.
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Yeah that's kind of what I thought too, but you'd think they would have seen me screaming down from 15k behind them too.
some guys(myself included sometimes) get so focused on one thing(most recently for me was finding a safe landing zone with 1 minute of fuel left), that they don't notice ANYTHING that's not in front of their 6-9 line. i picked my place, slowed her down, gear and flaps down, then one final glance 'round, just in time to see the hurri, that i SHOULD have seen long before he got that close. he was so close that had i let loose a cartoon fart, he'd have smelt it. :rofl :rofl
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Nothing wrong with coming up from below but for me personally I find up from below to cause more collisions, is a harder shot, and it takes longer to set up which gives comrades more time to warn the victim. Also, I'm usually bouncing more than one so I have an alternate target or two in mind if my first choice starts agressive evasives. Even then, if the guy hasn't started a dodge by 2.0, it's probably too late. Against numbers, getting below a guy and voluntarily surrendering E by chopping the throttle seems unwise. YMMV
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Nothing wrong with coming up from below but for me personally I find up from below to cause more collisions, is a harder shot, and it takes longer to set up which gives comrades more time to warn the victim. Also, I'm usually bouncing more than one so I have an alternate target or two in mind if my first choice starts agressive evasives. Even then, if the guy hasn't started a dodge by 2.0, it's probably too late. Against numbers, getting below a guy and voluntarily surrendering E by chopping the throttle seems unwise. YMMV
i should have clarified....i did that against a single con. had it been multiple cons, i'd have not gond below them till after i took my shot.
but now i have a question, i hope you don;t mind answering?
you said that if they've not started evasives by the time you're within D2.0, then it's too late? i had almost always waited till about 1.5 or so, as it seemed that if i started evasives sooner, then the bouncer was able to correct for my evasives? or maybe a better way to phrase........how would YOU avoid you?
not trying to be a wise arse......simply trying to learn........
<<S>>
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Seems like some old definitions are getting skewed a bit. The traditional, generally accepted definition of a pick is when you kill someone who is already engaged in a 1v1 or even fight.
That's not a pick, this is a pick.
(http://www.bubblestheartist.com/basement/pix/afropick3.jpg)
ack-ack
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Seems like some old definitions are getting skewed a bit. The traditional, generally accepted definition of a pick is when you kill someone who is already engaged in a 1v1 or even fight.
Steve, send them to this page (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/abbreviations/abbreviations.htm), or this page (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Common_terms), or this page (http://netaces.org/abbreviations/abbreviations.htm) ;)
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i should have clarified....i did that against a single con. had it been multiple cons, i'd have not gond below them till after i took my shot.
but now i have a question, i hope you don;t mind answering?
you said that if they've not started evasives by the time you're within D2.0, then it's too late? i had almost always waited till about 1.5 or so, as it seemed that if i started evasives sooner, then the bouncer was able to correct for my evasives? or maybe a better way to phrase........how would YOU avoid you?
not trying to be a wise arse......simply trying to learn........
<<S>>
Ya, if I'm coming down on you and you wait til 1.5, chances are you are going to end up in the tower. I'll take what shot I have at 400- and let my convergent snapshot chew you up. I won't bother with a long tracking shot(saps E) if there are multiple bandits in the area. It doesn't always work, but more often than not. Sometimes I simply get outflown.
If there are multiple cons in the area, a simple break or split-S early will cause me to choose another target. Remember, I won't be pulling hard enough, beyond a snap shot, to burn E in the horde.
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Ya, if I'm coming down on you and you wait til 1.5, chances are you are going to end up in the tower. I'll take what shot I have at 400- and let my convergent snapshot chew you up. I won't bother with a long tracking shot(saps E) if there are multiple bandits in the area. It doesn't always work, but more often than not. Sometimes I simply get outflown.
If there are multiple cons in the area, a simple break or split-S early will cause me to choose another target. Remember, I won't be pulling hard enough, beyond a snap shot, to burn E in the horde.
so basically, make myself look like the smallest fish in the pond then.............?
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That's not a pick, this is a pick.
(http://www.bubblestheartist.com/basement/pix/afropick3.jpg)
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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LOL PNG'd
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Nothing wrong with coming up from below but for me personally I find up from below to cause more collisions, is a harder shot, and it takes longer to set up which gives comrades more time to warn the victim.
Which is why I go for the guy in the rear of the line first and then his buds out front next.
Ya, if I'm coming down on you...
A phrase that always makes me quite nervous in any connotation... :D
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When I do the BnZ thing I have no intention of slowing down as I come up from below. I like to come up just behind the tail section firing as I go. Usually I miss badly, sometimes they go boom. :D
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I couldn't even get off the ground by myself. If I was the only Knit player in the game, when I logged on there would be like 200 bish hanging over the last uncaptured knit field, with it de-acked, waiting to vulch me.
:lol :aok
sounds about right for alot of players i know here, wouldnt we be in an IL2 at that point trying to HO anything that moved?
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Well actually that is a pick Steve. When someone is engaged with another con and you shoot them down that's a fight vulch. Hardly ever hear the term any more. Use to be people called you fight vulchers regularly. Frankly picking some one is probably how most kills happen. I do it and certainly am not ashamed to do it. I fight vulch too. When you get down to it, in the words of Anvil,"There's no honorable way to get a kill. You just shoot them and move on".
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In complex engagements, be it the real world or this virtual one, the name of the game is to put oneself and your wingman-(men) in a position to dispatch the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible while preventing the enemy from doing the same to you and your comrades. Cooperative tactics, mutual support and the opportunistic application of active tactical SA are vital to achieving this. The term "cherry picking" or killing an otherwise engaged bandit, is really, with two notable exceptions described below, simply the successful application of the core principles of air combat tactics. The two exceptions are:
1) When there is an isolated engagement between a single friend and foe where it is confirmed via direct communication or obvious intention that your friendly wishes to be left alone with the bandit.
2) When there are already sufficient friendlies engaged with the bandit(s) to dispatch him/them and they are in a viable position to do so. By, viable I mean, the friendlies have the E to force the engagement. Sometimes it's valid to be the "5th man in" if you are the only one with the E to force the bandit to turn thereby allowing his pursuers to successfully engage him if you fail to destroy him.
In all other situations you can conceive of cherry picking is really just one core aspect of good fightering tactics and their execution thereby furthering the overarching goal of dispatching the enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Anyone who whines about cherry picking in any situation other than the two aformentioned scenarios is clueless, in my personal opinion, demonstrating they deserved the express trip to the tower that they got.
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MA is more or less a team sport.
Maybe not a very well organized team sport. Maybe a sport with teams that don't have the best tactics. Teams that sometimes seem to have the collective intelligence of a plastic dish drainer...teams you'd like to box up and mail to an undisclosed location in the Altai mountains...
But still a team sport.
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Well actually that is a pick Steve. When someone is engaged with another con and you shoot them down that's a fight vulch. Hardly ever hear the term any more. Use to be people called you fight vulchers regularly. Frankly picking some one is probably how most kills happen. I do it and certainly am not ashamed to do it. I fight vulch too. When you get down to it, in the words of Anvil,"There's no honorable way to get a kill. You just shoot them and move on".
i thought a pick was when you bounced an already engaged enemy? i don't see them fighting there.....i hafta agree with steve...it was a bounce.
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i thought a pick was when you bounced an already engaged enemy? i don't see them fighting there.....i hafta agree with steve...it was a bounce.
A bounce in my humble opinion is a pick followed by a gain in altitude. Now I know that is being a bit, forgive the pun, picky but that is just how I see it. Again nothing wrong with a pick.
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A bounce is any attack from a distinct altitude advantage.
A pick is any attack from any position on a bandit who is already engaged.
So, an attack could be both a bounce and a pick, or just a bounce or just a pick. But, all bounces are not picks and all picks are not bounces...
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Anyone who whines about cherry picking in any situation other than the two aformentioned scenarios is clueless, in my personal opinion, demonstrating they deserved the express trip to the tower that they got.
Well said. There is not a single player in the game who doesn't cherry pick, but half of them whine about it.
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Well said. There is not a single player in the game who doesn't cherry pick, but half of them whine about it.
I would even go so far as to say that the theoretical person that never cherrypicks or attempts to setup bandits to be cherrypicked by their wingmen is completely useless in a complex engagement.
Here's a few examples of of hundreds that prove Cherrypicking is integral to aircombat, ask yourself what kind of moron would not do these things in a complex fight.
1) Friendly Jug calls for help, he's in tight with a Spit16 that with the help of an LGay7 ran your friend down trying to RTB, you come in, chop throttle and blow the Spit to kingdom come.
2) You're' flying along looking for a fight when you see two friends trailing 2 bandits, apparently not closing. You have E, so inform them you will be turning the bandits. Well, they see you coming at 2k out and rev to ho your friends. You chop throttle immel down and blow one away.
3) You notice 2 high bandits engaged with 3 friendlies below them. You come along with some E on the bandits. Apparently so fixated on the fresh meat on the table your approach is not noticed. One bandit makes a pass at a friend and zoom climbs up toward your level exposing his belly to your flight path. One short burst later he's in tower lamenting his poor SA.
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No matter how I get shot down, I always punch the wall and blame myself. :aok
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No matter how I get shot down, I always punch the wall and blame myself. :aok
....so it is a good thing that you are stuck in that padded room :D
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No matter how I get shot down, I always punch the wall and blame myself. :aok
I JUST blame me. after 2 broken hands, and a broken wrist, ya lern to stop punching walls and such. :rofl
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If I were the guy whom was shot down by steve after this, I would have let him know, "thank you for the excellent fight" "it was truely fun for the both of us, wish I could have fights like this all the time"
".s steve"
:D
Who just touched my arse? :uhoh