Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wingnutt on December 06, 2008, 12:59:01 PM
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twice today I dive on a corsair, had it follow me up, 800 behind me it stalled.. but didn't flip all the way over.. but instead sat level .. perfectly still, untill I too had stalled, and fallen all the way back down past it, where upoit finally fell forward and was on my 6.. first time I was in a spitty, the 2nd in a 38, in the 2nd time the corsair was on the deck and I was about 2k, I dove hitting 400 and pulled up after the merge vertical, the corsair followed and quickly fell back and as stalled he was 800 back and not closing.. he fell till he was level... then just seemed to sit there.. perfectly still.. till I flipped over then fell past him, where in he was on my 6 and closing..
how on earth do you this?? can it be done in other rides equally well, its it about flaps? trim? the plane wasnt hanging on the prop, but instead sitting level.
I recorded it the second time to study it, but wait no I didnt.. because if you hit ENTER after recording a film, it cancels it :furious
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I posted about this before and it's been discussed many times, or so I hear. It's all about dumping flaps, and even someone who's a F4U noob like me can do it. Because it was a carrier plane, the F4U was required to have a very low stall speed with flaps deployed; much slower than a Spitfire. Sometimes the most difficult thing about fighting a F4U is how slowly they're able to fly! ;)
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As Anax says, the F4U has a VERY low stall speed with full flaps. He may not have even stalled out but was so slow it may have just looked that way. The rudder reversal at the top is also not unusual, as she has a very large, and very responsive rudder
Additionally, the Corsair is very deceptive about her E-state so she may not have been as slow as you thought.
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Yea, Ive read a few times where people flip out about this, to the point of accusations of cheating even. before today I had never encountered this situation, so I was kinda :huh about it too...
stupid blue planes :furious
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How slow was the stall speed?
Spitfire goes about 65 mph AFAIK.
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How slow was the stall speed?
Spitfire goes about 65 mph AFAIK.
It certainly doesn't go that slow in the game, does it?
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I'd venture to say when it's about to stall, the pilot slowly drops flaps to keep it steady. Sometimes this doesn't work, sometimes it does. Depends on the F4U's amount of E.
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Depends on your definition of a stall I guess...
I have been around 50 knots in controlled rolling scissors at the upper reversal point in a P-51B. Had a Spit 9 in controlled level flight at 80 knots with more than 50% fuel. Never tried any of that with an F4U tho. In general I wouldnt say you could get to 65 in level flight however controlled flight is another matter.
Race
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This doesn't sound right. Don't know about in-game flight characteristics, cause I haven't flown in a while, but in real life, if a pilot were following a con with near equal or superior energy into the vertical, popping his flaps was NOT something he would want to do.
Deploying the flaps would not only rob him of his energy, but also blank the ailerons, robbing them of control authority. I don't care how "stable" the Corsair's flaps made it in level flight, vertical control would be another matter altogether. When stall speed was reached he would either go into a tail slide, with no control authority whatsoever, or he would fall off on one wing, nose down and helpless.
In all probability, your opponent had more energy than you realized and bled you dry of your own. So, you stalled first, and he latched onto your tail.
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nm
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This doesn't sound right. Don't know about in-game flight characteristics, cause I haven't flown in a while, but in real life, if a pilot were following a con with near equal or superior energy into the vertical, popping his flaps was NOT something he would want to do.
Deploying the flaps would not only rob him of his energy, but also blank the ailerons, robbing them of control authority. I don't care how "stable" the Corsair's flaps made it in level flight, vertical control would be another matter altogether. When stall speed was reached he would either go into a tail slide, with no control authority whatsoever, or he would fall off on one wing, nose down and helpless.
In all probability, your opponent had more energy than you realized and bled you dry of your own. So, you stalled first, and he latched onto your tail.
belive it was Saxman who just recently posted in a different thread that Vought made the Corsair so that with full flaps its stall speed was lower than with no flaps. I may have read Sax wrong, but if i read it right, and its true, this is a believible scenario wingnutt is posting. Ive been down to 80mph in a f4u1a with full flaps, and stalled just before the person tryin to rope me, hung in for a quick snapshot though.
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To make a Corsair Float-
Take one Corsair
Put in glass
Pour in Root Beer
Enjoy.
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This doesn't sound right. Don't know about in-game flight characteristics, cause I haven't flown in a while, but in real life, if a pilot were following a con with near equal or superior energy into the vertical, popping his flaps was NOT something he would want to do.
Deploying the flaps would not only rob him of his energy, but also blank the ailerons, robbing them of control authority. I don't care how "stable" the Corsair's flaps made it in level flight, vertical control would be another matter altogether. When stall speed was reached he would either go into a tail slide, with no control authority whatsoever, or he would fall off on one wing, nose down and helpless.
In all probability, your opponent had more energy than you realized and bled you dry of your own. So, you stalled first, and he latched onto your tail.
Well, like I said...keeping all your E till you're about to stall, then right before, kick down a notch of flaps and it somehow gives you an extra couple seconds of hang time.
To make a Corsair Float-
Take one Corsair
Put in glass
Pour in Root Beer
Enjoy.
:rofl
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This doesn't sound right. Don't know about in-game flight characteristics, cause I haven't flown in a while, but in real life, if a pilot were following a con with near equal or superior energy into the vertical, popping his flaps was NOT something he would want to do.
Deploying the flaps would not only rob him of his energy, but also blank the ailerons, robbing them of control authority. I don't care how "stable" the Corsair's flaps made it in level flight, vertical control would be another matter altogether. When stall speed was reached he would either go into a tail slide, with no control authority whatsoever, or he would fall off on one wing, nose down and helpless.
In all probability, your opponent had more energy than you realized and bled you dry of your own. So, you stalled first, and he latched onto your tail.
I accelerated from D400 to D800 from the corsair WHILE vertical.. I.E. I was going straight up, as was he directly behind/under me... 400 when we started, 800 when I stalled, at which point (when I was stalling) he was not gaining, but insted just sitting (literally) in mid air, I fell... 600, 400, 200 then down past him, only then did he began to fall, nose down on my 6.
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It helps if you stuff every available nook and cranny inside the wings and fuselage with helium-filled ping pong balls.
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It certainly doesn't go that slow in the game, does it?
I've had a 109F4 down to about 80mph or slightly less. I was OTD with SADS, in probably the best fight I've ever been in. Stall horn was constant, wings were scraping water. SADS performed possibly the widest "scissors" I have ever seen in the game trying to stay behind me. He won, but I did not make it easy for him. But it was 10 minutes of fun.
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Love when people underestimate my hog or even my jug , hehehehe.
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Love when people underestimate my hog or even my jug , hehehehe.
AkDogg, you are by far the best(that i have fought) in your F4, I think so far we have only dueled in the SE that one day, after KOTH.Yes you killed me twice, but I did put rounds into you first, but the toughness of that bird kept you alive :cry We have not had the chance to incounter each other in the Main, I have been looking forward to it since that day!! Its funny every time I incounter the AKs, Im like "okay Wheres Dogg"
He is the one i want to kill the most!! :D only out of respect :salute
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The Corsair Float
8 oz. 7-Up
1/4 cup crushed ice
2 scoops Corsair
- oldman
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twice today I dive on a corsair, had it follow me up, 800 behind me it stalled.. but didn't flip all the way over.. but instead sat level .. perfectly still, untill I too had stalled, and fallen all the way back down past it, where upoit finally fell forward and was on my 6.. first time I was in a spitty, the 2nd in a 38, in the 2nd time the corsair was on the deck and I was about 2k, I dove hitting 400 and pulled up after the merge vertical, the corsair followed and quickly fell back and as stalled he was 800 back and not closing.. he fell till he was level... then just seemed to sit there.. perfectly still.. till I flipped over then fell past him, where in he was on my 6 and closing..
how on earth do you this?? can it be done in other rides equally well, its it about flaps? trim? the plane wasnt hanging on the prop, but instead sitting level.
I recorded it the second time to study it, but wait no I didnt.. because if you hit ENTER after recording a film, it cancels it :furious
In a situation like that, when you say "where upoit finally fell forward" I actually push forward into level flight to hold/build some speed. The guy roping me often appears to think I've stalled. This way, when he comes back down I have enough speed to get out of his way and pull onto his tail as he goes down past me. I'll never have flaps down in that situation. My simple goal in that situation is to have my opponent dive down past me so I can go nose-down to build speed and chase. In the best case as he goes down past me he'll try to pull back vertical and give me a corner I can cut across for a shot.
When you say "but instead sat level .. perfectly still, untill I too had stalled, and fallen all the way back down past it" it makes me suspect you're mis-judging the situation. No plane in the game can do that, especially long eough for you to continue up, stall, reverse, and fly down past it. It may momentarily pause at the top of a zoom, but then it's moving again. The only way it could maintain an altitude long enough for you to dive past it is if it was above stalling speed. And then to manuever onto your six he has to be even faster. You're probably mis-judging his speed by over 100kts. Film would show that.
If the guy roping me seems to know that trick (that I'm leveling for speed, and not really at a stall), I'll "follow" him up on a rope, but only until I'm about 175 mph. At that point I'll roll quickly onto my back and pull back on the stick into a 30 degree or so dive, and then roll back level, watching for my opponent. I'm "simulating" a stall/flop, trying to get my opponent to reverse quickly and dive on me again (that'll scrub some of his E-advantage if he pulls hard to reverse, and even more if he chops throttle on the way down to saddle up or line up a shot). By the time he does that I'm roughly 225 mph and ready to manuever. I'm also trying to portray myself at a lower E-state than I really am. Now as he comes down for a shot I'll roll to the side, and pull out of his sights, which is really initiating my roll inverted to pull onto his six as he goes past. I may have a notch or so of flaps here and there to aid my turn, but they're quickly pulled back up. I'm trying to build my speed overall, since I'm already slower/lower in useful altitude than my opponent.
I seldom get below 175 mph (and it's brief, I want about 225mph when I try to manuever) in these situations, but I'll try to appear slower than that- even by manipulating the + or - Distance counters (if I can) by my angle on or off my opponent. An example of that is pushing forward to deny his rope- he sees the distance counter with the "+" and assumes I can't follow because I'm slower. In reality I may be almost as fast as him, but not fast enough to catch him at the top of his rope. If I can convince him that he has a serious E-advantage over me, he may get a bit sloppy with it, thinking I'm nearly helpless. (At least that's my hope) I know that if it was me, and I was the guy roping, when I see my opponent "flop" below me I crank back around/down as fast as I can, and cut throttle in the dive to give me more time to aim my shot. If I miss, I've lost some serious E! I've cut my "zoom" short, pulled hard to reverse, and chopped throttle! That's what I'm trying to get my opponent to do. When they say a plane "hides its E well" it's kind of a vague, hard to understand notion (to me at least). This is a way I use "technique" to hopefully mislead my opponent, and yes, it can be done in lots of planes other than the F4U.
BTW, the manual says the power on, full flap stall for the F4U is about 66(kts). To do any real manuevering in the game 120-130(mph) is about my minimum.
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well I messed around with it, and sure enough, If i pull vertical in the hog and at around 100mph dump full flaps and level out, the dang thing will pretty much sit there, I was reading 40mph so to someone else im sure I would appear almost stationary..
doesent seem right, seems like it would be VERY hard to keep control of the plane like that, but it isnt. and I almost never fly the hog.
maybe i should start.
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i do it quit a bit, if i'm in a scissor thats starting to get to stall speeds on the deck I'll pull up then dump the flaps and watch the other guy stall or slip in front and on his six.
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This is one reason i stopped flying f4u's and now will only fly the f4f of fm2 off carriers.
Still little super planes in they're own right, but at least chopping power dumping flaps and slamming out landing gear is not all that can be done with them to get a kill.
:rock
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no matter what plane i'm in... my ego helps it float. :rock
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(http://www.gregplummer.com/planes/cor2.JPG)
Simple. :aok
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:huh Um...whoa.
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how on earth do you this?? can it be done in other rides equally well, its it about flaps? trim? the plane wasnt
yes try flying the 38, it's even better.
If you were fighting a -4 that would explain it, a -4 will fly faster than a pony and climb like a P-38
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(http://www.gregplummer.com/planes/cor2.JPG)
Simple. :aok
WANT
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2715235308_385a9577c6.jpg)+(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/FG1-2006COC-psg1.jpg/300px-FG1-2006COC-psg1.jpg)=FLOAT
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2715235308_385a9577c6.jpg)+(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/FG1-2006COC-psg1.jpg/300px-FG1-2006COC-psg1.jpg)=FLOAT
so you have to get the airplane stoned? :huh
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so you have to get the airplane stoned? :huh
Yes.... :D
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Love when people underestimate my hog or even my jug , hehehehe.
I've killed you hot vs hog a few times, and I'm barely average in the F4U. We won't mention the other 20 enemy cons you were dodging at the time; I'm sure they had no impact on the outcome. :D
Any time you're up for some 1v1 Hog vs Hog action let me know. I need lessons badly, and lessons from the best are best. You do things with that beast I can only dream about.
We REALLY need fewer people flying the F4U. If the unwashed masses ever figured out what it is and what it can do (and learned how to do it) the ENY would bottom out on the whole series.
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I posted about this before and it's been discussed many times, or so I hear. It's all about dumping flaps, and even someone who's a F4U noob like me can do it. Because it was a carrier plane, the F4U was required to have a very low stall speed with flaps deployed; much slower than a Spitfire. Sometimes the most difficult thing about fighting a F4U is how slowly they're able to fly! ;)
combine all that with massive horsepower......
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If the unwashed masses ever figured out what it is and what it can do (and learned how to do it) the ENY would bottom out on the whole series.
I think that's what largely keeps her safe from ENY. With the high levels of ADD among the kiddies these days the yank-and-bank Spit Dweebs can't be bothered to take the time to learn there's more to ACM than following your opponent around in a circle.
And I think the closest I've ever gotten to shooting down Dogg was landing a few lucky hits into the engine of his 4-Hog to start it smoking while in an FM-2. But I couldn't get around for a finishing shot.
They SERIOUSLY need to fix the glass engine on the F4Us....
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water wings?
:noid
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And I think the closest I've ever gotten to shooting down Dogg was landing a few lucky hits into the engine of his 4-Hog to start it smoking while in an FM-2. But I couldn't get around for a finishing shot.
Once I figured out the F4U was Dogg ("You have been totally spanked by AKDogg") I started filming. Somewhere I have "You have just done the impossible, you dweeb, and I'm now compelled to give you credit for killing AKDogg even though you are not worthy to wash his flight suit" in the message buffer of a film. It only took half the Knight air force to distract him so I could single-mindedly bore in for the kill.
Seriously, I could survive two, maybe three (rarely) merges in a -1 against his -1A in those brief moments when he could give his attention to one fight.
That film has been reviewed nearly to the point of obsession just to see how a master handles the aircraft.
If you want to know how to float an F4U he's one of the guys who can show you. There are others in the game, but Dogg is the first name that comes to mind.
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Once I figured out the F4U was Dogg ("You have been totally spanked by AKDogg") I started filming. Somewhere I have "You have just done the impossible, you dweeb, and I'm now compelled to give you credit for killing AKDogg even though you are not worthy to wash his flight suit" in the message buffer of a film. It only took half the Knight air force to distract him so I could single-mindedly bore in for the kill.
Seriously, I could survive two, maybe three (rarely) merges in a -1 against his -1A in those brief moments when he could give his attention to one fight.
That film has been reviewed nearly to the point of obsession just to see how a master handles the aircraft.
If you want to know how to float an F4U he's one of the guys who can show you. There are others in the game, but Dogg is the first name that comes to mind.
I don't fly the -1a, I don't like it. I rather fly -1. Key thing to know about the hog is being smooth with the inputs. U pull to hard to quickly and u get snap rolls and u bleed E to fast and obviously u lose the adv. Having your joystick options setup correctly for the hog is the key to making it do what I do with it. What I mean by that is the damping, flaps, wep, etc.. I use the Old MS Precision 2 joystick. Its nothing fancy or special but it is very accurate and smooth. If u have a logitec, forget flying the hog to its full potential. Those joysticks spike to much right out of the box.
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I love the -1 as long as I don't try to maneuver too sharp, I can't get the hang of it in hard maneuvers, but I love it when I fly it to my normal style (BnZ and hit and run), but its great when I get slow to evade.