Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DCCBOSS on December 15, 2008, 12:02:00 PM
-
My wish is for a longer time limit on switching countries, I would like to see a 3 to 8 hour time span on how fast you can switch back to your country of origin, this will curtail a lot of the gaming the game play that we all see at times or how about loosing perk points if you try to switch sides before the time limit or charge perks just for switching sides, this could cause more of the shade accounts being created, and as you know we can't do much about that unless HT wants to do something to correct that issue. :salute
-
The time limit as it stands now is just fine and there is no reason to change it. A lot of players (like myself) and squadrons (like the 80th Headhunters) switch to help even out the sides when the numbers are imbalanced. What you want to impose is not going to stop any of the behavior you wish to stop.
ack-ack
-
I don't have a country of "origin" ... so am I exempt ?
-
The time limit is short so that players can switch to balance the arena roster.
-
The time limit is short so that players can switch to balance the arena roster.
At least that is the idea....
-
At least that is the idea....
The behavior that DCCBOSS wants to put an end won't be stopped by increasing the time it takes to switch countries. I'm also willing to bet that far more switch sides to 1) even up the numbers or 2) fly with a friend is far more common than someone switching to spy or gain perks from the reset.
ack-ack
-
The time limit as it stands now is just fine and there is no reason to change it. A lot of players (like myself) and squadrons (like the 80th Headhunters) switch to help even out the sides when the numbers are imbalanced. What you want to impose is not going to stop any of the behavior you wish to stop.
ack-ack
I have now problem with your reasoning for switching sides, but I have to wonder since we have ENY which was put in place buy HTC to solve the problem you are talking about, why do you and other squads finding it necessary to do this. :noid
As far as the time limit goes if you are incline to switch countries for the day the week or month this time limit should not matter to you, now as far as the people who do this to gain a unfair advantage over the other countries and that is what this is all about and would most likely have a problem with the time limit. Now if anybody doesn't have a problem with people doing this type of game play then why don't you PM someone in the other country and let them know when you are going to attack, or a mission objective so on it is basically the same thing. :salute
-
I have now problem with your reasoning for switching sides, but I have to wonder since we have ENY which was put in place buy HTC to solve the problem you are talking about, why do you and other squads finding it necessary to do this. :noid
Being able to switch countries is necessary for the country balancer to work. Arena numbers are fluid, especially in smaller populated arenas. Just the other evening AKAK and I logged into MW, and switched from knights, to rooks, and back to knights again as the situation changed in the arena. Before we logged a couple of players we had been fighting, switched to knights to balance out the furball. This cannot happen with long time limits. Typically it's a minority of players that are willing to switch to balance the arena, and it's counter productive to prevent them from changing for long periods of time.
-
2) fly with a friend is far more common than someone switching to spy or gain perks from the reset.
That's a misconception anyway. A player needs to be with the country for 12 hours to collect reset points.
-
Being able to switch countries is necessary for the country balancer to work. Arena numbers are fluid, especially in smaller populated arenas.
So you are telling me that ENY and Floating Arena Population Caps are not meant to or are unable to do the same thing, and how would 3, 4, 5 or 8 hour delay in returning to your country of origin unbalance the Arena. The assumption of course is the people that switch to balance the sides are doing it with out any bias and it is fairly and timely enough to coincide with the Arena or countries variables.
DCCBOSS :salute
-
Being able to switch countries is necessary for the country balancer to work. Arena numbers are fluid, especially in smaller populated arenas.
So you are telling me that ENY and Floating Arena Population Caps are not meant to or are unable to do the same thing, and how would 3, 4, 5 or 8 hour delay in returning to your country of origin unbalance the Arena.
DCCBOSS :salute
So if the ENY is preventing me from flying my Ki84 or P38 (which would be some pretty dang high ENY) I'm supposed to switch arenas or just log off instead of simply switching countries? I was under the impression that the ENY limiting was to encourage people to switch teams to the low numbers side or deal with the penalty of not having access to the better rides.
I have many friends in this game and a chess piece isn't part of what I need to identify with to make those friends. I get frustrated enough as it is with the time limit on switching countries, why make it worse?
If it took 8 hours to switch sides I'm sure the team imbalances would actually grow worse.
-
I have wondered why we couldn't have more options in the lobby. For example, each arena has the option to join rook, bish, or knight depending on how many are on one team.
Late War Orange--Rooks-100/100
Bishops-98/100
Knights-78/100
This way you could see from the lobby which side needs more numbers. I guess this would be a problem with people logging out in order to change countries, but if it were regulated, it might be a way to help with arena caps, also.
-
So if the ENY is preventing me from flying my Ki84 or P38 (which would be some pretty dang high ENY) I'm supposed to switch arenas or just log off instead of simply switching countries? I was under the impression that the ENY limiting was to encourage people to switch teams to the low numbers side or deal with the penalty of not having access to the better rides.
I have many friends in this game and a chess piece isn't part of what I need to identify with to make those friends. I get frustrated enough as it is with the time limit on switching countries, why make it worse?
If it took 8 hours to switch sides I'm sure the team imbalances would actually grow worse.
Spot on. :aok
-
Being able to switch countries is necessary for the country balancer to work. Arena numbers are fluid, especially in smaller populated arenas.
So you are telling me that ENY and Floating Arena Population Caps are not meant to or are unable to do the same thing, and how would 3, 4, 5 or 8 hour delay in returning to your country of origin unbalance the Arena. The assumption of course is the people that switch to balance the sides are doing it with out any bias and it is fairly and timely enough to coincide with the Arena or countries variables.
DCCBOSS :salute
The floating arena population cap has nothing to do with attempting to balance the population numbers of each country, that's what the ENY tries to attempt. While ENY does help, it can't do the job completely because ultimately it is the player's decision to switch to even things up or not.
ack-ack
-
Being able to switch countries is necessary for the country balancer to work. Arena numbers are fluid, especially in smaller populated arenas.
So you are telling me that ENY and Floating Arena Population Caps are not meant to or are unable to do the same thing, and how would 3, 4, 5 or 8 hour delay in returning to your country of origin unbalance the Arena.
ENY gives players the choice to either stay where they are and take the penalty, or switch sides. ENY is just the incentive for players to balance the arena...players switching countries is what actually does the balancing.
I have switched countries to balance the arena before there was such a thing as a country balancing system, and the country change time limit was 6 hours. The arena numbers would change, but I would be stuck where I was for another 4 hours. It was even worse when the limit was 12 hours. Like I said, it's counter productive to country balancing.
Dynamic caps have nothing to do with country balancing.
-
I have now problem with your reasoning for switching sides, but I have to wonder since we have ENY which was put in place buy HTC to solve the problem you are talking about, why do you and other squads finding it necessary to do this. :noid
As far as the time limit goes if you are incline to switch countries for the day the week or month this time limit should not matter to you, now as far as the people who do this to gain a unfair advantage over the other countries and that is what this is all about and would most likely have a problem with the time limit. Now if anybody doesn't have a problem with people doing this type of game play then why don't you PM someone in the other country and let them know when you are going to attack, or a mission objective so on it is basically the same thing. :salute
Let's see. I will wing CH's or III/JG2 in Knightland. I'll wing the False Prophets, BoP's and The Flying Circus in Bishopville. After 6.5 years of playing, I get more satisfaction out of occasionally winging some of the folks who shoot me down.
Ask any of the above squads if I PM them. I mainly fly Rook and don't give a damn about "country loyalty". Only time I WILL pass along info via PM, is if TT is being taken to ruin the fun for others.
As for the "zOMFG you're a SPI!!!" paranoia of which you speak, you're so far out in left field, you might as well sit down and eat the Ball Park Frank you bought.
-
Don't forget 143 in bishopland! TSM and Killuminati always have fun when you pop on channel (no matter what that frog guy says.)
:salute
ENY gives players the choice to either stay where they are and take the penalty, or switch sides. ENY is just the incentive for players to balance the arena...players switching countries is what actually does the balancing.
I have switched countries to balance the arena before there was such a thing as a country balancing system, and the country change time limit was 6 hours. The arena numbers would change, but I would be stuck where I was for another 4 hours. It was even worse when the limit was 12 hours. Like I said, it's counter productive to country balancing.
Dynamic caps have nothing to do with country balancing.
The floating arena population cap has nothing to do with attempting to balance the population numbers of each country, that's what the ENY tries to attempt. While ENY does help, it can't do the job completely because ultimately it is the player's decision to switch to even things up or not.
ack-ack
And this covers some other questions voiced. The reasons for NOT changing the time limit between country changes far outweigh fears of spybois ruining misshuns; which seems to always be what these threads are really about.
I have wondered why we couldn't have more options in the lobby. For example, each arena has the option to join rook, bish, or knight depending on how many are on one team.
Late War Orange--Rooks-100/100
Bishops-98/100
Knights-78/100
This way you could see from the lobby which side needs more numbers. I guess this would be a problem with people logging out in order to change countries, but if it were regulated, it might be a way to help with arena caps, also.
I find this idea interesting. Flesh it out and make a fresh wishlist post maybe?
-
I find this idea interesting. Flesh it out and make a fresh wishlist post maybe?
Yeah, I realized it could be construed as a hijack after I posted it.
-
I think it would be better to have anyone AFK longer then 20min to be kicked into the lobby. Half of the rook nation is AFK all the time!
-
I think it would be better to have anyone AFK longer then 20min to be kicked into the lobby. Half of the rook nation is AFK on the bish side all the time!
:noid :rofl
-
Once again I have no problem with your choice of changing countries (IE: To Help Balance the numbers, if that your intent), but ENY does make a big impact on the dominant country ability to attack and if lets say 25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country of which is enjoying a low ENY until you showed up (of course it depends on the total numbers on line across all three countries), "keep in mind this just a example", now that counties ENY either goes up or the dominant countries goes down which now counters the purpose of the ENY and gives the dominant country the ability to up the more effective planes and vehicles now. So under those circumstances you are not helping as much as you think which is one of your arguments about the time limits, the other point you made is to be able to fly with a friend that's in a different country or something to that effect of course a few people doing that is not going have any great impact to anyone and once again I don't have any problem with that either. So increasing the time to whatever amount above what it is now may help more than you think lets say 2-hours.
Now I see their has been a reference to spying, well that is not where I'm coming from, I was talking about people do this to game the game and everybody has seen or had some type of interaction with this type of player, most of the people in this game achieve their skills and objectives without having to stoop to that level of game play, you are not who I'm talking about and it is unfortunate that some ruin it for the others.
I also would like to say that the people that do this with the best intentions (I take my hat off to you fellows), but this is still not the same as a nonbias automatic function of the game such as ENY.
-
Once again I have no problem with your choice of changing countries (IE: To Help Balance the numbers, if that your intent), but ENY does make a big impact on the dominant country ability to attack and if lets say 25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country of which is enjoying a low ENY until you showed up (of course it depends on the total numbers on line across all three countries), "keep in mind this just a example", now that counties ENY either goes up or the dominant countries goes down which now counters the purpose of the ENY and gives the dominant country the ability to up the more effective planes and vehicles now. So under those circumstances you are not helping as much as you think which is one of your arguments about the time limits, the other point you made is to be able to fly with a friend that's in a different country or something to that effect of course a few people doing that is not going have any great impact to anyone and once again I don't have any problem with that either. So increasing the time to whatever amount above what it is now may help more than you think lets say 2-hours.
Now I see their has been a reference to spying, well that is not where I'm coming from, I was talking about people do this to game the game and everybody has seen or had some type of interaction with this type of player, most of the people in this game achieve their skills and objectives without having to stoop to that level of game play, you are not who I'm talking about and it is unfortunate that some ruin it for the others.
I also would like to say that the people that do this with the best intentions (I take my hat off to you fellows), but this is still not the same as a nonbias automatic function of the game such as ENY.
So is ENY in place to just keep everyone on the chess piece they normally fly albeit with a possibility of not flying the late war rides? Or is it to encourage players to even up the teams?
It is a combination of both but I think your way of thinking would be detrimental to many players. If I had to wait longer than I do now to switch sides by at least another hour or more as some have suggested, I'd seriously consider canceling my account.
Further, how are people "gameing the game" by switching countries. If you aren't referring to people messing with cv's or giving away NOE misshuns (both examples of spies work), than what are you meaning?
I'd also argue that I am not in fact hurting the team with low ENY by switching to their side. I'm sure they'd love the help as fighting a horde of higher ENY birds is just the same as fighting a horde of low ENY birds. A horde is a horde. They aren't beating you with their better planes, they are just overwhelming with numbers.
Don't punish people who can make friends on all the countries because you can't or refuse to try.
-
I think the hour time limit is to long, I was flying at TT the other day, and all of a sudden the green guys way out numbered the red guys, so I switched to the side that we where hoarding, for about 30 min. it was cool then the tide changed again and we where the hoard again, I would have switched back to fight the hourd, but my time limit was not up yet, I really hate having to fight green guys to get my killz, so looking around there where no major red dars, so I went to the other arena, hoping for a better fight there.
-
So is ENY in place to just keep everyone on the chess piece they normally fly albeit with a possibility of not flying the late war rides? Or is it to encourage players to even up the teams?
It is a combination of both but I think your way of thinking would be detrimental to many players. If I had to wait longer than I do now to switch sides by at least another hour or more as some have suggested, I'd seriously consider canceling my account.
Further, how are people "gameing the game" by switching countries. If you aren't referring to people messing with cv's or giving away NOE misshuns (both examples of spies work), than what are you meaning?
I'd also argue that I am not in fact hurting the team with low ENY by switching to their side. I'm sure they'd love the help as fighting a horde of higher ENY birds is just the same as fighting a horde of low ENY birds. A horde is a horde. They aren't beating you with their better planes, they are just overwhelming with numbers.
Don't punish people who can make friends on all the countries because you can't or refuse to try.
Like I said I have no problem with switching sides to fly with friends, and apparently you haven't been on long enough to see massive side switching taking place, and that what this really gets down to and the fact of you changing sides to help well more power to you, but I'm sure you are not equal to 5 or 10 player in any country so stop try give me that line it doesn't cut it slick, or maybe you just the type of player I was talking about.
-
I've played more than my forum account would indicate, "slick".
:rolleyes:
-
Once again I have no problem with your choice of changing countries (IE: To Help Balance the numbers, if that your intent), but ENY does make a big impact on the dominant country ability to attack and if lets say 25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country of which is enjoying a low ENY until you showed up (of course it depends on the total numbers on line across all three countries), "keep in mind this just a example", now that counties ENY either goes up or the dominant countries goes down which now counters the purpose of the ENY and gives the dominant country the ability to up the more effective planes and vehicles now. So under those circumstances you are not helping as much as you think which is one of your arguments about the time limits,
You don't seem to be getting the concept of the country balancer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing). Taking your example, let's say the countries are 125/100/75. The 'dominant' country is up by 50 players over the small country. "25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country" The net result would be 100/100/100. Hence no imbalance, no 'dominant' country, hence no reason for ENY limits. Out of 300 players, it only took 25 players to correct a 50 player disparity between sides. It works exactly as it's supposed to.
I also would like to say that the people that do this with the best intentions (I take my hat off to you fellows), but this is still not the same as a nonbias automatic function of the game such as ENY.
Ugg, you're not getting what the country balancer (what you call ENY) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing) is about. Here is the design specification for the balancer:
Try come up with an idea that does the following.
1. Moves people to the other side.
This is the basic issue, I have herd lots of ideas but most that I have seen are always made to "Not impact me". So they were basicly saying for this small penalty I still won't change countries and still get to fly the way I want. Well that dosn't acomplish the thing you agreed needed to be solved.
HiTech
-
LOL now an ENY whine.
ENY ...The gift that keeps on giving. :aok
-
LOL now an ENY whine.
ENY ...The gift that keeps on giving. :aok
It's the Energizer Bunny of whines...it keeps going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going and going....
ack-ack
-
You don't seem to be getting the concept of the country balancer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing). Taking your example, let's say the countries are 125/100/75. The 'dominant' country is up by 50 players over the small country. "25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country" The net result would be 100/100/100. Hence no imbalance, no 'dominant' country, hence no reason for ENY limits. Out of 300 players, it only took 25 players to correct a 50 player disparity between sides. It works exactly as it's supposed to.
Ugg, you're not getting what the country balancer (what you call ENY) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing) is about. Here is the design specification for the balancer:
I understand what you are saying when the numbers come out that way. I guess my take would be this if multiple squads are working towards a goal which is winning a particular map (it is designed into the game) then why should we or would we suddenly switch sides to undo what we may have worked at for hours or more to achieve. I have grown to appreciate ENY and your right a total solution I do not have and I think that it may not be achievable. As many of us had seen when any one country dominates and is about to win the map for the most part the loosing countries members tend to log out or move to other Arena's which will increase the offset making the balance even worse, this I don't think can be controlled.
To touch on the queston posed (Moving people to the other side) lets take a positive look at it, a volunteer program allow any squad to become a balancing squad they could receive maybe a "slightly higher perk value for their kills" or something along that line, they submit into a post to be granted this honor of course it would come with certain ethics to abide by as part of this, if you use whole squads to join then members of that squad would be acting for the squad when moving to other countries for the purpose of balancing, HT can pick what squads would eligible and post what it would take to make your squad qualify to be given this recognition and privilege by HT.
-
LOL now an ENY whine.
ENY ...The gift that keeps on giving. :aok
Where did I whine about ENY try reading.
-
ENY ...The gift that keeps on giving. :aok
Bronk, fire up your magical spreadsheeter and get us a nice graphical representation of ENWhines vs. Collision whines.
-
Where did I whine about ENY try reading.
Once again I have no problem with your choice of changing countries (IE: To Help Balance the numbers, if that your intent), but ENY does make a big impact on the dominant country ability to attack and if lets say 25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country of which is enjoying a low ENY until you showed up (of course it depends on the total numbers on line across all three countries), "keep in mind this just a example", now that counties ENY either goes up or the dominant countries goes down which now counters the purpose of the ENY and gives the dominant country the ability to up the more effective planes and vehicles now. So under those circumstances you are not helping as much as you think which is one of your arguments about the time limits, the other point you made is to be able to fly with a friend that's in a different country or something to that effect of course a few people doing that is not going have any great impact to anyone and once again I don't have any problem with that either. So increasing the time to whatever amount above what it is now may help more than you think lets say 2-hours.
Now I see their has been a reference to spying, well that is not where I'm coming from, I was talking about people do this to game the game and everybody has seen or had some type of interaction with this type of player, most of the people in this game achieve their skills and objectives without having to stoop to that level of game play, you are not who I'm talking about and it is unfortunate that some ruin it for the others.
I also would like to say that the people that do this with the best intentions (I take my hat off to you fellows), but this is still not the same as a nonbias automatic function of the game such as ENY.
:lol :lol
-
Bronk, fire up your magical spreadsheeter and get us a nice graphical representation of ENWhines vs. Collision whines.
Don't think I have enough cpu power for that. The numbers are just too large. :)
-
Don't think I have enough cpu power for that. The numbers are just too large. :)
Again ENY was used to explane the side switch not to whine about. :rolleyes:
-
Bronk, fire up your magical spreadsheeter and get us a nice graphical representation of ENWhines vs. Collision whines.
You know nothing :rofl :lol :D
-
You know nothing :rofl :lol :D
I know that people who over use smilies are at least mildly retarded. Does that count as something?
-
maybe a "slightly higher perk value for their kills" or something along that line
Perk point based ideas were tried first, they did nothing to move imbalance. Like many others, I have tens of thousands of perk points, incentive based on perks are meaningless to long time players. Hitech decided that the "carrot" approch would not work, and a "stick" would have to be used to make players balance the arena. If his original idea had been implemented, players would have to either switch countries or wait their turn in the tower for an available slot to take off. You can read the discussion if you like http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,126649.0.html (it only has 800+ replies :) )
Edit: had the wrong thread the first time.
-
Once again I have no problem with your choice of changing countries (IE: To Help Balance the numbers, if that your intent), but ENY does make a big impact on the dominant country ability to attack and if lets say 25 of you like minded members change to the lower populated country of which is enjoying a low ENY until you showed up (of course it depends on the total numbers on line across all three countries), "keep in mind this just a example", now that counties ENY either goes up or the dominant countries goes down which now counters the purpose of the ENY and gives the dominant country the ability to up the more effective planes and vehicles now.
I see little difference between a hoard of A8s or heavy Jugs and a hoard of Nikkis or Tempests. If you're trying to defend a base against say 20 or 25 to your 5 or 8 Spit 16s, you're still (should, anyway) going to have problems.
wrongway
-
Perk point based ideas were tried first, they did nothing to move imbalance. Like many others, I have tens of thousands of perk points, incentive based on perks are meaningless to long time players. Hitech decided that the "carrot" approch would not work, and a "stick" would have to be used to make players balance the arena. If his original idea had been implemented, players would have to either switch countries or wait their turn in the tower for an available slot to take off. You can read the discussion if you like http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,126649.0.html (it only has 800+ replies :) )
Edit: had the wrong thread the first time.
I did as you suggested read through allot of those posts, I did not see anything close to what I had suggested about a squad volunteer program, forget the perks for the moment and just deal with the fact that HT needs more than the few people that are switching countries now to help balance the Arena's, HT could put out a application or request post to ask for squads to volunteer for this program and of course there needs to be some type of code of conduct and a commitment from those squads who choose to join. Now I know I may be oversimplifying this but this could be something worth looking at, as far as some kind of perk bonus or something, what you told me is that you have so many perks it doesn't matter to you, but the people that would join this most likely would not have such a big cash of perks, and since you are already doing this it is kind of moot for you.
DCCBOSS :salute