Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Anodizer on March 21, 2009, 12:48:48 PM
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This is the third time in recent months that you've whined about something that didn't happen.... In this case, it's supposedly a ho-attempt on my part.. I know you know the difference.... So, why do you accuse me of doing something that is obviously not true.. Is this what you do to attempt to make others look bad when a fight doesn't go your way? It seems that I can't get an answer out of you via PM on the forum.. So, I think it's time to let the rest of the AH community involved in making a judgment call based on this film.. You seem to have ignored my PM's in the past as you probably knew that everything you blabbered on 200 for everyone to hear was complete BS.. Perhaps this will induce a response.. You've got a huge ego to protect, after all.... In typical fashion, you whine and cry when your opponent doesn't fly the way you want and you make claims of ganging or ho-ing or lord knows what else...
I have learned to give little regard your way.. I don't think you are the stand up guy that others think/say you are.....Not by a long shot.... Shame on you....
As you'll see, you're on 200 uttering nonsense about me being a perch grabbing P-38 and how pathetic it is when in fact we are practically co-alt.... Why do you spout these lies?
What type of personality issues do you have that you must out-right lie about what is actually transpiring in-game?
I'm at 20K and you're at 20K... Is that your definition of Perch Grabbing?
I'd like an explanation.... :)
http://www.mediafire.com/?mzzyyomzymn (http://www.mediafire.com/?mzzyyomzymn)
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Someone say Dirty Ho?
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9264/dirtyhodvd.jpg)
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(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/sHa_lolabove.gif)
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Watched the film. Definitely a head on. The fact that the top of Karaya's plane was showing is irrelevant because he was avoiding the HO. You made no attempt to avoid the head on and were committed to firing at him on the initial merge the entire time. No offense Anodizer because we are all guilty of head on's from time to time but this one was undisputedly a Ho imho.
As for what happened afterwards... I'd say there was some timidness on your part Anodizer but there were a few red dots below and Karaya had a wingman. I'm sure the perch grabbing comment was only made because you fired at him on the initial engagement. It wasn't really justified.
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Agree with grizz. Karaya could have easily jousted if he had wanted to, but chose not to (earns points)...whereas you fired on the initial merge: therefore it's a head-on.
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I'm just arguing semantics here, but to me that is NOT a HO, that is a "Hot Merge". The hot merge however is equally tasteless, and most of the time the only difference between the two is one guy is smart enough to avoid. I do love those occasions though where I have the chance to watch a friendly and an enemy close on each other full speed ahead, unwavering, committed to the noble art of the joust, both going guns hot when they are 1.5 apart, then both falling towards terra ferma as little bits of smoking wreckage.
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I'm just arguing semantics here, but to me that is NOT a HO, that is a "Hot Merge". The hot merge however is equally tasteless, and most of the time the only difference between the two is one guy is smart enough to avoid. I do love those occasions though where I have the chance to watch a friendly and an enemy close on each other full speed ahead, unwavering, committed to the noble art of the joust, both going guns hot when they are 1.5 apart, then both falling towards terra ferma as little bits of smoking wreckage.
Hot Merge = Ho Merge. If both players are committed to it, they are both going to fly through eachother's windshield.
<edit> Actually I see what you are saying now Tec.
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Definitely a HO. Karaya tries to avoid, Anodizer Ho's. Dunno what all the fuss is about, Anodizer HO's at every merge.
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This is hilarious... I get HO'd sometimes. It sucks... But... I get over it.
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Geeze...the only problem with that opening shot was that it missed. Imo, the film merely serves as just another example of why open channels are the bane of the game.
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Geeze...the only problem with that opening shot was that it missed. Imo, the film merely serves as just another example of why open channels are the bane of the game.
It also serves to show that some people have no idea what a ho is.
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Agree with grizz. Karaya could have easily jousted if he had wanted to, but chose not to (earns points)...whereas you fired on the initial merge: therefore it's a head-on.
Is it widely considered that this type of shot is a ho???? :huh Other veterans have done this shot on me and when I drew to question, I was explained it was a front quarter shot....
If this is universally considered a head-on shot, forgive me as I thought it was more than obvious I was not trying to perform a head-on shot AND I'd like to point out that had I thought the Spit9 was going to go head-on, I would've avoided the ho as well.... It just didn't register as a head-on shot to me.... I don't even think it was a merge.. Just a bunch of guys flying around and I decided to point my P-38 at his Spit9 and it went from there.... After all the flying around that went on before hand, I wouldn't even consider this the 1st merge.. However, I digress since I didn't get the first few minutes preceding what you've seen already....
Karaya, comments like "the 38 shows his poor gunnery".... Do you really need to spout stuff like this? Is it necessary? Get over yourself, man... Seriously....
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Definitely a HO. Karaya tries to avoid, Anodizer Ho's. Dunno what all the fuss is about, Anodizer HO's at every merge.
:rofl
Since when?
Wow, you don't even know me, man... Don't think I've ever even fought you...
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Thought a HO is when both planes are facing each other on the initial merge. ( if there's any )
:huh
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I'm just arguing semantics here, but to me that is NOT a HO, that is a "Hot Merge". The hot merge however is equally tasteless, and most of the time the only difference between the two is one guy is smart enough to avoid. I do love those occasions though where I have the chance to watch a friendly and an enemy close on each other full speed ahead, unwavering, committed to the noble art of the joust, both going guns hot when they are 1.5 apart, then both falling towards terra ferma as little bits of smoking wreckage.
I'm not firing until he's within' 500ft.... Not sure if you were referring to me firing at such stupid ranges or what..
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I don't see one HO in that film. Most of you saying its a HO always cry that a HO is when both planes have a shot on each other. Sure karaya could have pointed his nose at him and jousted but he didn't. He turned his nose away and anodizer took a clean shot.
whereas you fired on the initial merge: therefore it's a head-on.
That's the funniest thing I heard from you. Just because its the first merge means any shot is a HO?
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:rofl
Since when?
Wow, you don't even know me, man... Don't think I've ever even fought you...
I'v merged with you a few times. HO every time.
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I'v merged with you a few times. HO every time.
Obviously you must have film of this somewhere since the only way to see that it's me is by watching the film....
So, produce it....
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I don't see one HO in that film. Most of you saying its a HO always cry that a HO is when both planes have a shot on each other. Sure karaya could have pointed his nose at him and jousted but he didn't. He turned his nose away and anodizer took a clean shot.
Surely you understand this concept Larry...
"HO" is a grey area definiton. Early in the fight the definition of a HO is a lot wider of range than later in the fight as planes are slower and have been working to create angles.
For example with brackets as range...
Early in fight "Considered HO" range is [ ]
Middle of fight "Considered HO" range is [ ]
As the fight drags on "Considered HO" range is [ ]
Rule of thumb: If you are looking for a shot on the first merge (expecially with altitude underneath you), you are going to be HOing more often than not.
Thought a HO is when both planes are facing each other on the initial merge. ( if there's any )
This is the most simplistic of misconceptions.
Is it widely considered that this type of shot is a ho???? :huh Other veterans have done this shot on me and when I drew to question, I was explained it was a front quarter shot....
On the first merge where both planes are on straight line trajectories where one is slightly off centered, yes this is typically considered a HO even if you see his front quarter. However if, say on the 2nd turn, you finish your turn quicker than him and he is still completing his turn and you shoot his front quarter as he finishes his turn around at you, this is a completely valid shot. (even though plenty of people will whine about this also)
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How many times am I going to have to tell you guys...................THIS IS A HO
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e263/Forker1/Fleiss.jpg)
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Saw no HO there. :aok
/sarcasm As for Karaya's ego, no such thing! /sarcasm
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I think Karaya didn't wait long enough to break. It always amazes me when people turn right in front of me like that. They are begging to get shot. You can avoid the HO without breaking so early. The best way to avoid the HO is with subtle movements. You dont have to hard break like that. My theory being that the people who HO cant hit jack to begin with, and the people who CAN aim usually don't stoop to the HO on a 1v1 merge. I don't really know what was in Anodizor's head during that merge. Who knows if he was planning the HO the whole time, but when you turn in front of someone and give them a shot, you gotta expect they are gonna take it.
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I'm not firing until he's within' 500ft.... Not sure if you were referring to me firing at such stupid ranges or what..
I think Tec was just making a general statement not directed at you, I could be wrong though. And I know what he means. :rofl
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I think Karaya didn't wait long enough to break. It always amazes me when people turn right in front of me like that. They are begging to get shot. You can avoid the HO without breaking so early. The best way to avoid the HO is with subtle movements. You dont have to hard break like that. My theory being that the people who HO cant hit jack to begin with, and the people who CAN aim usually don't stoop to the HO on a 1v1 merge. I don't really know what was in Anodizor's head during that merge. Who knows if he was planning the HO the whole time, but when you turn in front of someone and give them a shot, you gotta expect they are gonna take it.
I'm by far the worst shot in the game... I'll be the first to admit... My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot.... No head-on intended...
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I'm by far the worst shot in the game... I'll be the first to admit... My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot.... No head-on intended...
Don't worry about it dude.
Don't get too defensive if this drags out to 10 or 12 pages. IMHO, you shoulda just let it drop,and forgotten about it right then and there.
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I'm by far the worst shot in the game... I'll be the first to admit... My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot.... No head-on intended...
To be perfectly honest, you didn't attempt to create an angles advantage (acm) before the merge. You let Karaya get angles on you by getting underneath and I'm wondering why he didn't pull up around and pursue you.
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I'v merged with you a few times. HO every time.
LOL that's like saying you are nothing but a picker Steve. Neither is true. I fly with Ano in the Headhunters. He was in that same fight down low that you were in last night. I enjoy flying with him and know how he fights. If he was such a poor player, he wouldn't be flying in my squad
I seem to recall this same debate going on with Grizz and Shane a while back. Shane was jumping the merge hoping for Grizz not to shoot and got shot, then called HO. Now Grizz is saying the same thing Shane said then to Ano. Irony to me is the last time I ran into Grizz was a situation where I cheated on the merge a little soon in my 38G and his 152 blew me away as he took the shot. I thought nothing of it, because it was my mistake to show my front quarter like that.
Unless you set it up ahead of time, in the MA it's always a chance when you show the front quarter you'll get shot. I don't like HO shots as much as the next guy, but if the guy tries to sneak under me and shows me the canopy and top of the engine, I'll shoot unless it's a set up merge like a week ago or so when Agent360 and I met at 2K near the TT island and cold merged each time. But we knew who we were fighting then.
Much ado about nothing in calling it a HO. It wasn't.
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Is it widely considered that this type of shot is a ho???? :huh Other veterans have done this shot on me and when I drew to question, I was explained it was a front quarter shot....
If this is universally considered a head-on shot, forgive me as I thought it was more than obvious I was not trying to perform a head-on shot AND I'd like to point out that had I thought the Spit9 was going to go head-on, I would've avoided the ho as well.... It just didn't register as a head-on shot to me.... I don't even think it was a merge.. Just a bunch of guys flying around and I decided to point my P-38 at his Spit9 and it went from there.... After all the flying around that went on before hand, I wouldn't even consider this the 1st merge.. However, I digress since I didn't get the first few minutes preceding what you've seen already....
You answer your own question right here. If it happens to you, it's a HO. If you're doing it then it's a "front quarter shot." I think it would have been less of a "HO" if you had followed through instead of extending...forever. It was more of a "kick a lot of rudder, maybe I can hit him" shot than a HO. But, on the receiving end, it's still a HO.
Karaya, comments like "the 38 shows his poor gunnery".... Do you really need to spout stuff like this? Is it necessary? Get over yourself, man... Seriously....
Pretty benign, chest thumping comment. Personally, I don't tune 200. If this is all it takes to get your goat maybe you shouldn't either.
wrongway
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LOL that's like saying you are nothing but a picker Steve. Neither is true. I fly with Ano in the Headhunters. He was in that same fight down low that you were in last night. I enjoy flying with him and know how he fights. If he was such a poor player, he wouldn't be flying in my squad
I seem to recall this same debate going on with Grizz and Shane a while back. Shane was jumping the merge hoping for Grizz not to shoot and got shot, then called HO. Now Grizz is saying the same thing Shane said then to Ano. Irony to me is the last time I ran into Grizz was a situation where I cheated on the merge a little soon in my 38G and his 152 blew me away as he took the shot. I thought nothing of it, because it was my mistake to show my front quarter like that.
I don't remember exactly but I could have shot you on a similar angle. I'm assuming I was coming down at you in some regard and doubt it was a straight line trajectory, but I do HO sometimes based on the situation. Never said I don't HO. Typically my HO's are when a plane completes his turn around on me as I am firing at him. If i'm in a 152 with those cannons, it's almost certain I will kill the guy before he can even get guns on me. I never "joust" though.
As far as with Shane, I was pursuing him, he didn't finish his turn, and pulled up in front of my guns. It was an entirely different situation and Shane never said it was a HO. That was quite a few months ago, I've logged over 1000 duels since then and have developed a much different outlook on the dynamic of the fight.
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I think a lot of people label what I view as Aces' High "special" reenactment of the medieval joust as a "HO".
Not going to bother watching the film, from the way it was described Anodizer had his lance couched as he was charging down the list, and Karaya decided he didn't want to joust.
Basically, Sir Anodizer, Karaya is saying that by couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze, you were committing to the "HO".
That is how I see it, anyway.
P.S. It really only takes one to joust - it is just a heck of a lot harder to successfully drive the lance home on an unchivelrous cad who refuses to joust correctly.
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Obviously you must have film of this somewhere since the only way to see that it's me is by watching the film....
So, produce it....
You have HO'd me on several instances. I'd have to review hundreds of films and not only do I not feel like it, I don't have to. You HO.
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You have HO'd me on several instances. I'd have to review hundreds of films and not only do I not feel like it, I don't have to. You HO.
Ah ah ah. Sir Anodizer does NOT HO. In fact... it appears that he only commits to the joust when it appears that his knightly opponent appears to commit to some other form of combat. If his opponent commits to the joust, Sir Ano will apparently do his best to avoid it.
You know... that makes almost no sense at all to me.
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I don't remember exactly but I could have shot you on a similar angle. I'm assuming I was coming down at you in some regard and doubt it was a straight line trajectory, but I do HO sometimes based on the situation. Never said I don't HO. Typically my HO's are when a plane completes his turn around on me as I am firing at him. If i'm in a 152 with those cannons, it's almost certain I will kill the guy before he can even get guns on me. I never "joust" though.
As far as with Shane, I was pursuing him, he didn't finish his turn, and pulled up in front of my guns. It was an entirely different situation and Shane never said it was a HO. That was quite a few months ago, I've logged over 1000 duels since then and have developed a much different outlook on the dynamic of the fight.
And that's all good. My point remains. You got jumped for doing something that wasn't wrong, but based on the 'code' was not a good thing according to those at the time preaching the 'code'.
Much ado about nothing. Ano didn't do anything beyond which most if not all of us have done given that kind of shot. He wasn't out of line in taking it and it wasn't a HO shot.
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And that's all good. My point remains. You got jumped for doing something that wasn't wrong, but based on the 'code' was not a good thing according to those at the time preaching the 'code'.
Much ado about nothing. Ano didn't do anything beyond which most if not all of us have done given that kind of shot. He wasn't out of line in taking it and it wasn't a HO shot.
Except one big point you are missing. He sacrificed angles for a weak shot. He never intended to actually fight Karaya. He was perfectly content with staying on top of the merge out of position.
Again no disrespect Anodizer, just analyzing the 15 second blip on film. Have never seen you fly nor would never judge someone's ability based on 15 seconds.
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Crap flying on everyone's part. I would call that a hot merge, but there wasn't a merge. 38 too sissy to fight. Spit 9 too sissy to fight.
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Crap flying on everyone's part. I would call that a hot merge, but there wasn't a merge. 38 too sissy to fight. Spit 9 too sissy to fight.
I've been playing for only 2 years.... Half the time, I have no clue what I'm doing wrong until someone points it out.... So, I claim ignorance in this case..
I can guarantee that if he would've turned around, I would have surely gave him a fight, or at least tried.... But it seems a number of you guys are all about ridiculing the good ol' college try as well..
If you want to call staying on top of the fight a sissy move, then I guess you can call all the trainers sissies too... Including Spatula and Murder....
I learned it from them...
You know what gents, I'm gonna detune from 200, squelch a few people, and fly how I want instead of trying to be
a stand up player who will more often than not give someone a decent fight.. If there was a middle phalange smiley on here, I'd fill the screen with 'em..
From now on, I will take the shot.. Perhaps if I take ALL the shots I come across and not worry about pissing someone off or causing friction with people I thought were decent folks, I'll actually have some fun instead of trying to play nice... I'm not gonna waste time recording every fight anymore.... I'm not wastomg time trying to get better.... I'm not going to waste any time whatsoever in learning anything anymore.... If I suck, I suck...
So what? But I can tell you that if anyone gets in front of my guns, I will shoot.... At this point, I could care less what is considered a ho or pick or what ever else I've avoided doing
to try and remain legit.. Obviously trying to be an upstanding player in this game means absolutely nothing because some like myself who's only been in the game for 2 years will be ridiculed anyway.. So, if you're going to ridicule, I'll give you something to ridicule about... I hope I piss many of you off in the coming days.... Joy will fill my heart when the PM's start rolling in....
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as too the film...
1. Not a HO
2. Anodizer is basically trying to setup an E mismatch where his plan would have been for the spit to try to pull up under him and get roped...Karaya doesn't fall for it..but he does give Anodizer an angle shot at merge...
3. Anodizer continues to stay high until he runs out of fuel???? (he is surrounded by enemy cons though)
4. 16k alt fight....yuck
5. personally with a 38 who has e/alt adv on me i'll show him my tail and hope to get chased down and use his compression against him to achieve a better e state...but i have a cute hunted tail :devil
As too Karaya...I think he is a standup guy by my personal experiences with him...he types a bit too much on ch 200 sometimes but I'ld look him up next time he is on and try to chat with him Anodizer...you guys are probably more similar than different :salute
p.s. posting films in the bbs rarely result in obtaining satisfaction unless you are a member of the "BBS horde"...keep trying to be a standup guy Anodizer...it is the right thing to do :rock
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From now on, I will take the shot..
Well, that shot is risky because you surrender some angles to take it. Had Karaya simple Yoyo'd hard around, he would have had a significant angles edge. Plenty of people don't know what a HO is. Look at the goofs in here who posted it wasn't a HO. Take that shot "from now on" if you feel you must but make sure you can land it, because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.
:salute
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Looks like a deflection shot to me.. Besides who merges like that In ma anyways your asking to get ho'd. :salute
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Well, that shot is risky because you surrender some angles to take it. Had Karaya simple Yoyo'd hard around, he would have had a significant angles edge. Plenty of people don't know what a HO is. Look at the goofs in here who posted it wasn't a HO. Take that shot "from now on" if you feel you must but make sure you can land it, because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing so.
:salute
Who you calling a goof! :)
Picker! :D
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Who you calling a goof! :)
Picker! :D
Oh noes!
:lol
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I think a lot of people label what I view as Aces' High "special" reenactment of the medieval joust as a "HO".
Not going to bother watching the film, from the way it was described Anodizer had his lance couched as he was charging down the list, and Karaya decided he didn't want to joust.
Basically, Sir Anodizer, Karaya is saying that by couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze, you were committing to the "HO".
That is how I see it, anyway.
You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.
Being online aquaintances of both gents and finding them both to be good guys, I feel I can be a impartial judge. Im motivated by the urge to show the community that the definition of a HO is up to the perception of the individual at that split second, which may often turn out to be a misconception.
Im reminded of a training film I watched long ago in the Police Academy. It showed a teen of questionable merit, dressed in 'street' clothes, running out of a store with a womans pocketbook in hand. The instructor stopped the film and asked us what we would do. The answers varied from tackle the kid to shoot the kid in the leg to foil a robbery to get on the radio and initiate a pursuit. The instructor then turned the film back on to reveal the teen catching up to a lady as she got on a bus to hand her the purse she had left on the counter of the store.
The lesson? -things aint always what they seem, and dont let your prejudices cloud your judgement.
With that said, what each guy saw depends not only on his views & perception, but video hardware.
I actually watched the film. Here's what I come away with-these are full size screenshots cropped down to gunsight view, not reduced.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-1.jpg)
At 1k the merge begins. The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-2.jpg)
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-3.jpg)
At around 600 the 38 is indeed doing just that, as the spit driver pushes low on the merge. The spit should be looking at the 38 thru the top of the canopy, and the 38 driver is looking at a spit in full profile view. HO? I dont think so myself.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-4.jpg)
At 400 the 38 takes a shot while kicking rudder and ths spit appears to be rolling and pulling up to present a small silouette to his attacker while passing under the 38s nose.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-5.jpg)
So, I see a attempt to land a front quarter deflection shot while kicking rudder in a descent defeated by Karaya's high speed low merge.
All this just a few seconds.
By my definition HO literally stands for Head On. For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose. This is the so called and aptly described joust. If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there? The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out. Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'. Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.
I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"
Thanks for the excuse to play with Photoshop....anyone have a copy of the Zabruder film for me to analyze? :)
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You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.
Being online aquaintances of both gents and finding them both to be good guys, I feel I can be a impartial judge. Im motivated by the urge to show the community that the definition of a HO is up to the perception of the individual at that split second, which may often turn out to be a misconception.
Im reminded of a training film I watched long ago in the Police Academy. It showed a teen of questionable merit, dressed in 'street' clothes, running out of a store with a womans pocketbook in hand. The instructor stopped the film and asked us what we would do. The answers varied from tackle the kid to shoot the kid in the leg to foil a robbery to get on the radio and initiate a pursuit. The instructor then turned the film back on to reveal the teen catching up to a lady as she got on a bus to hand her the purse she had left on the counter of the store.
The lesson? -things aint always what they seem, and dont let your prejudices cloud your judgement.
With that said, what each guy saw depends not only on his views & perception, but video hardware.
I actually watched the film. Here's what I come away with-these are full size screenshots cropped down to gunsight view, not reduced.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-1.jpg)
At 1k the merge begins. The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-2.jpg)
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-3.jpg)
At around 600 the 38 is indeed doing just that, as the spit driver pushes low on the merge. The spit should be looking at the 38 thru the top of the canopy, and the 38 driver is looking at a spit in full profile view. HO? I dont think so myself.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-4.jpg)
At 400 the 38 takes a shot while kicking rudder and ths spit appears to be rolling and pulling up to present a small silouette to his attacker while passing under the 38s nose.
(http://www.475fg.com/images/Untitled-5.jpg)
So, I see a attempt to land a front quarter deflection shot while kicking rudder in a descent defeated by Karaya's high speed low merge.
All this just a few seconds.
By my definition HO literally stands for Head On. For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose. This is the so called and aptly described joust. If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there? The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out. Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'. Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.
I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"
Thanks for the excuse to play with Photoshop....anyone have a copy of the Zabruder film for me to analyze? :)
Someone agreed with me damn the world must be ending.. Nice post btw.
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By my definition HO literally stands for Head On. For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose.
So, by your definition, if both pilots have a shot, but one avoids and the other tries to take it, it's not a head-on shot...reductio ad absurdum: your definition is too narrow.
Btw, this thread is going past 12 pages. :aok
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Not a merge in my opinion. nobody did anything, Anodizer had reason to stay on top seeing there was like 5 guys below him but was fighting very timid, so was Karaya who I would say was flying even more timid seeing the number advantage
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Hi my name is Cajunn and I'm a "Ho" but I am getting therapy for my problem and I'm also attending HA meetings. :o
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If you want to call staying on top of the fight a sissy move,
You guys don't fight how I fight, or fly like I want you to fly; so I think you're dbags. No big.
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Savlan -
Thanks for proving my point. I was going to quote you, but it is just to long. And I'm to lazy. Instead I'll just pull out the relevant points.
You didnt bother to watch the film, but bothered to post the situation 'as you see it'?
Now that Ive stopped laughing at the irony of that statement, lets address the issue at hand.
Yea, the beautiful thing about being around this game for years and years and years and years.... I don't need to watch every film some noble warrior whining about someone else whining about him not "fighting fair". 99,999 times out of 100,000 the film shows our noble warrior fully committed to taking a shot, ANY SHOT, that he can get - then proceeding to act offended when he misses the little golden ring and the ring has the nerve to laugh at him. I changed the metaphor a little there, since you are absolutely correct that the other guy isn't participating in the lists, so our noble warrior must be practicing.
At 1k the merge begins. The fuselage and tail on the Spit are visible. Can you tell if the spit is giving the 38 his canopy or belly at this point? Is he coming in or going away? I cant, and I have a 1 gig video card running at 4320x900 res on a Matrox setup. If Im the 38 Im gonna push for a front deflection shot
Yea, you and 95% of the arena, Sir Henry. The point is, you can't even tell where the guy is going, and you already have your lance couched. Guy turns 90 degrees to you? You hold in the trigger until you fly past him. Guy turns towards you, but doesn't "HO"? You hold in the trigger until you fly past him. Guy turns towards you and holds the trigger down? You hold in the trigger until you fly past him (or ram him, I'd say that is probably the most common ending when two noble air knights meet in the great lists in the sky).
You, and 95% of the folks in this game now, go for any shot you can go for. No, I don't blame you, you have to beat out the other 17 guys for the rare kill.
By my definition HO literally stands for Head On. For there to be a Head on, both pilots must be coming at each other and staring at the front of each others nose. This is the so called and aptly described joust. If one of the knights leaves the guardrail during the charge, there is no joust at all, is there? The knights & their lances never meet HEAD ON if one rider bails out. Literally, to have a HO occur is to play a game of aerial 'chicken'. Hos may occur during multi bandit swirling knife fights on the deck, but we are talking here in particular about head on merges.
I dont see a head on here. I certrainly dont see "couching that lance and coming straight in guns ablaze"
The point is, the guy was 100% committed to taking a shot, no matter what Karaya did. Since there is no short term for "being a moron who is fully committed to taking a shot on the first pass no matter what the other guy does", the term "HO" has been shanghai'd. Is it accurate? Nope. Are you going to be enlightened from reading this post? Nope. Why am I bothering? I truly don't know.
I would like to add that I am tremendously impressed with my BBS posting skills. I thought I'd have to edit the heck out of that to make it look right, and it came out ok on the first try.
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I'll comment on the first few seconds of the film but would like to have seen the 30 seconds before hand to see how the 2 players got to the start of the film.
It was not a HO and only JUST what we would call a merge. It was more like 2 ships passing in the night. They BOTH could have made something of it but they didn't. So what if the P38 kicked in a shot, rudder or otherwise .....bid deal.
To many terms being Hijacked in this game for the sake of ego. That was just another example. Had this been the FIRST shot taken in the DA then we could say, AT BEST, the P38 was naughty. Considering its the MA and the p38 was outnumbered it was little more than a cheeky snap shot.
--------------------------->SHIPS PASSING IN THE NIGHT<-----------------------------------------
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The P-38 isn't being "naughty" at all. Taking every shot you can get is normal, at least until you understand that by sometimes not taking every shot you can get, you can set up for ones that are easier to land and more effective.
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Anodizer can i ak you one question?
Was there any part of you that felt "Oh dear, fighting a co-alt spit9 im going to get waxed. I know, I will just shoot him on merge and negate the risk alltogether"?
Clearly this was a front quater shot, but the intention to HO (as urchin says) was always in the back of your mind, or so i believe. I think you took that early shot because you were almost certain a well flown spit9 co-alt would end your sortie. Karaya's merge shows someone who is confident of their ability to win this fight using ACMs.
Thats fair enough, It's not a Tea Party simulation afterall.
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To me, yes Anodizer went for the HO. He had ample time to change his approach angle to get a better shot but didn't. While going for the HO in that run is a bit classless, its the norm in the MAs these days. What followed after is what bothers me more. He spent the rest of the film AVOIDING A FIGHT ! He had 5 targets below to go after, and even using wimpy BnZ passes he could have been far more aggressive. Someone else pointed out that Karaya was just as bad for trying to climb to him... why not, he's the only target around, and the target was climbing away, at least he was trying to fight.
Its a combat game, FIGHT !! you want to fly around and look at the scenery go fly Microsofts FlightSim !
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1)
The shot in question was not a HO. Period end of story....
2) Had Karaya flown on his original path it would have been....
So what we have here is a question on intent and poor technique. It's not my place to say whether someones "intent" was for a pure HO or not. What I will say with a feeling of certainty is that the 38 flew a horrible reactive "merge" with no evidence of any plan of action. Not having the spits side but viewing it from the 38's perspective he was slow reactive and climbing. This is almost avoiding a B & Z pass not a merge given the 170?MPH speed difference. Knowing the pilot I don't feel comments of "the spitty should have" are appropriate.
3) What I do see is a very poor use of superior position. The 38 had clear control of the situation and went for a poor low % face shot of what ever variation it could force instead of using proper tactics. If you look at the 38's roll and orientation at 5 seconds you see an orientation on the Target vs use of any maneuvering to secure some form of AOT. To me this is a failed B&Z pass not a merge.
Poor form, yes
Bad technique, yes
"HO", no
Just my 2 cents
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lol I went into the Training Arena II aka LW Orange and a horde coming at me .... the first three try to HO. From my experience, over the years, if you want a good fight stay out of those arenas as most folks in there depend on Hos and hordes.
The pics of this pass don't show a HO IMHO. Looks as if someone got too close to giving someone else a solution.
As for anyone being concerned it is a spit, I think you'll find that 99% of those that fly spits are newer individuals who give more than their fair share of solutions. While you must assume that the spit pilot is a 1 percenter when merging, if he gives that solution then help him mend his ways..... take it.
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My intention was to avoid a possible head-on shot but when he started to avoid what I'm sure he thought was a head-on shot and showed me the top of his plane, I took the shot.... No head-on intended...
Looked like a normal front quarter shot attempt, not a ho.
Why did you bail out at the end of your film, you had the spit and yak just ahead of you ready pounce?
EDIT:
I did not read everyones post prior to viewing this film, I am glad I didn't. But now that I have, some of you have no Idea what a HO is, and if you consider this front quarter shot a HO attempt, your sadly mistaken.
There are players out there that come at you nose on each and every attempt ONLY, you can avoid it all you want but no matter what you do this is what you will get from said players, frontal merges and that's it. There are several players that fly spits that do just that, and any other cannon laden plane that will give them any chance at success, but to confuse this film with as being a HO is ludicrous.
but would like to have seen the 30 seconds before hand to see how the 2 players got to the start of the film.
Poor form, yes
Bad technique, yes
"HO", no
:aok
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Many of you are missing the point that what makes a HO is frequently not what actually happens, but what could have happened: it is counterfactual. The biggest losers are the ones who think they're not HO'ing because the other guy didn't go for the shot when he could have. It's a troglodytic lack of comprehension that mistakes higher character for weakness.
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The pics of this pass don't show a HO IMHO. Looks as if someone got too close to giving someone else a solution.
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You are correct if karaya would not have turned ,Anodizer would have HAD a solution. Would he haveshot? I dont know. Did anodizer TRY to avoid a nose on nose? Absolutely not! In the film he spends the whole merge trying to get his nose on the spit not trying to avoid it.Technicly he tried to ho karaya and karaya avoided it. so i will not call this a ho i will call it a failed ho. :)
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You are correct if karaya would not have turned ,Anodizer would have HAD a solution. Would he haveshot? I dont know. Did anodizer TRY to avoid a nose on nose? Absolutely not! In the film he spends the whole merge trying to get his nose on the spit not trying to avoid it.Technicly he tried to ho karaya and karaya avoided it. so i will not call this a ho i will call it a failed ho. :)
Ahh what your saying is because he could have he did. Same thing that anax guy is saying.
Like a woman suing you for rape because you have peck'er. You didn't do anything but you could have.
Doesn't make sense but to each his own.
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Guns are pointed forward for a reason, intentional ramming is a different topic. Quit squeaking about the HO and just play the damn game for once. God, I swear most of you are 3 years old.
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Why am I bothering? I truly don't know.
after taking the time to read the bulk of your post I would have to agree.
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Not a HO.
It would've been a HO if Karaya had continued on his normal path, but we'll never know whether or not you would have pulled the trigger in that situation.
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A wide variety of well respected long time players here in this thread mixed in with various community members...and yet there is no consensus whether or not the merge is a head on, despite snaps & film.
A microcasm of the US jury system at work :)
Like Sincraft says here, Id prefer there was no squeaking about the HO - especially since this thread is proof positive that there is no agreement on what a HO really is.
Its kinda like that website 'hot or not' where people vote on whos attractive. Perhaps we should start a 'Ho or NO' webpage? :)
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Ahh what your saying is because he could have he did. Same thing that anax guy is saying.
"He" is ambiguous the way you use it. Please explain another way? I'm not certain you understand our opinion, yet.
Like a woman suing you for rape because you have peck'er. You didn't do anything but you could have.
Doesn't make sense but to each his own.
Please explain your analogy. I don't see it.
this thread is proof positive that there is no agreement on what a HO really is.
True, but disagreement doesn't mean that those of you who disagree with me are not wrong. ;)
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I'd appreciate if someone could lock this already....
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.....what makes a HO is frequently not what actually happens, but what could have happened .....
There in your own words ....
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5 pages and Karaya hasnt even responded, <S>K.
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There in your own words ....
So? Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched. The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot. In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim. So the analogy never gets off the ground.
Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are. Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.
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So? Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched. The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot. In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim. So the analogy never gets off the ground.
Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are. Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.
OOOOooook Anaxogoras, we only use 3 syllable words and less here ;)
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I think I have said this before in another thread, but the fact is in what is referred to as a "Ho" in this game was a tactic that the earlier American fighters used against the Zero's in war 2 because they knew the Zero was not as sturdy and couldn't take the punishment. I personally don't hold it against anyone if this is the tactic that wants to be used. And to be honest if I'm in an out numbered situation I will "HO" anything that comes head on to me figuring my chances aren't that great to start with. And in reality to be Ho'ed in the game you have to be in a head on with the plane that your fighting with so your intentions or suspect to start with. Any time I hear someone complain about being Ho'ed my first thought is what were you doing in a head on and in the same flight plane that allowed you to get ho'ed, do you really think you can go head on with a fellow and him not shoot! hummmmm
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Nice to see some things never change :rofl
Hi guys, your all a bunch of nasty lil ho's :D
good to see Dan posting, hope your back to flying Dan, Anodizer yur a good dude, so is karya, everybody whines about Ho shots, you do remember my constant whine don't ya lol.
personally i'd rather get shot in the face then give one, but i have been guilty of squeezing the trigger to quick also, it happens, screw it.
might be coming back at some point if life slows down a little for me, until then be good to each other.
Don
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So? Your analogy doesn't work because the victim/perpetrator roles are switched. The man who could have raped, but didn't, has to be compared to the pilot who could have gone for the head-on shot. In the former case he is the perpetrator, in the latter the intended victim. So the analogy never gets off the ground.
Moreover, just because one type of counterfactual claim is bogus doesn't mean they all are. Foreign policy and game theory are two fields that are ripe with relevant counterfactuals that must be treated with as much weight as what actually happens, if not more.
So based on your own account, your saying neither HO'd.
I'd agree with that!
I think I have said this before in another thread, but the fact is in what is referred to as a "Ho" in this game was a tactic that the earlier American fighters used against the Zero's in war 2 because they knew the Zero was not as sturdy and couldn't take the punishment.
You've misread somewhere I'm sure. No one wanted a HO as either could die..... really die. Many of the jap planes had canon. No one wants to be on the receiving end of those. While it was used to some extent it was not the chosen method.
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Is this what you do to attempt to make others look bad when a fight doesn't go your way? ...So, I think it's time to let the rest of the AH community involved in making a judgment call based on this film.. You seem to have ignored my PM's in the past as you probably knew that everything you blabbered on 200 for everyone to hear was complete BS... You've got a huge ego to protect.
I'm confused. Who's trying to make who look bad and who's trying to protect whos ego?
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You've misread somewhere I'm sure. No one wanted a HO as either could die..... really die. Many of the jap planes had canon. No one wants to be on the receiving end of those. While it was used to some extent it was not the chosen method.
Just finished up a book called "Aces High" about the ace race between McGuire and Bong (really good read btw). I think every recorded combat of both McGuire and Bong was detailed in the book. One of the things that struck me was the number of times Bong entered a fight nose to nose with a Japanese fighter and got a kill out of it firing on the merge. IIRC 7 or 8 kills by Bong were attained head on. McGuire seemed to excel at the high deflection shots most others wouldn't even attempt, where as Bong is credited with a more direct approach head to head or dead astern.
Again, good book. Aces High by Bill Yenne.
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Stupid ho!
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So based on your own account, your saying neither HO'd.
Neither successfully HO'd, only because one tried to avoid the HO and succeeded. The other tried to HO and failed to close the deal. Look at the thread title - "ho attempt".
Your rape analogy fails because it confuses potential with attempt. It is not a crime to possess the potential to rape, but decide not to do so. It is a crime to make an active attempt to rape even if your intended victim manages to thwart you.
Not to mention that comparing a HO to a felony is pretty silly.
What I'm puzzled about is why Anodizer bailed out.
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A wide variety of well respected long time players here in this thread mixed in with various community members...and yet there is no consensus whether or not the merge is a head on, despite snaps & film.
A microcasm of the US jury system at work :)
Like Sincraft says here, Id prefer there was no squeaking about the HO - especially since this thread is proof positive that there is no agreement on what a HO really is.
Its kinda like that website 'hot or not' where people vote on whos attractive. Perhaps we should start a 'Ho or NO' webpage? :)
Because the premise is broken, there's a grey area between HO and not HO. The only way to draw a clear line would be on a case by case basis: knowing the two players' intent.
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The term HO needs to be removed from this game to prevent these BS topics.
Maybe we can use the term "front quarter shot" from now on?
The film from the OP does show a front quarter shot, the sort of shot which is frowned upon by the better players in AH2!
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I'm amazed at how a HO topic can easily reach 50+ replies within a day but some good discussion topics barely reach 30-40 replies. :lol
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I'm amazed at how a HO topic can easily reach 50+ replies within a day but some good discussion topics barely reach 30-40 replies. :lol
<3
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This is hilarious... I get HO'd sometimes. It sucks... But... I get over it.
Who's not getting over it?
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sort of shot which is frowned upon by the better players in AH2!
You mean <1% in AH2,,, got it. Frowned upon but do it all the time. Got it. :rolleyes:
:rofl
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Say Pilot A holds down the trigger 1.5k out. Pilot B angles out of the way. Pilot A continues to fire the entire time as Pilot B zooms below and off to the side. For those who say that this wasn't a HO in this film, is this a HO in my example? :devil
Intent is important.
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The film from the OP does show a front quarter shot, the sort of shot which is frowned upon by the better players in AH2!
Two thoughts on this statement:
Front quarter shots are far more easily avoided than executed, kudos to anyone who does both well.
and
the better players in AH do not frown.
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Btw, this thread is going past 12 pages. :aok
halfway there
we need to take bets on how high the page count gets
this is getting good :aok
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Say Pilot A holds down the trigger 1.5k out. Pilot B angles out of the way. Pilot A continues to fire the entire time as Pilot B zooms below and off to the side. For those who say that this wasn't a HO in this film, is this a HO in my example? :devil
Intent is important.
And speaking for someone I fly with, Ano isn't out looking to HO, just fight and get better. That's all his intentions are. If not, he wouldn't be one of my 80th guys.
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Say Pilot A holds down the trigger 1.5k out. Pilot B angles out of the way. Pilot A continues to fire the entire time as Pilot B zooms below and off to the side. For those who say that this wasn't a HO in this film, is this a HO in my example? :devil
Intent is important.
Continue that scenario--Player B rolls out, as Player A lands 1 lucky @#$#@#$ing hizooka, Player B complains of HO, film shows that at moment of impact, it was a 'front quarter', thus player B is labeled a 'whiner'...that scenario more typical than not, IMO
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The neverending HO discussion... :furious
Bottom line - until HT decides to write an "anti-HO shield" like we had in Air Warrior, it will be part of the game and you're going to have to deal with it. I do my best to avoid the HO like the Spit did but when you do, it presents the quartering shot the 38 took, normally a good shot if it hadn't been on the initial merge. I don't like'em but HOs were used in WW2...or so they say in several documentaries.
The question is; do you want realism or good game play?
HT has a setting to turn friendly fire on and off and the only reason for the option is to improve game play. Every bellybutton in here would be shooting all the friendly planes just because they could. I don't like the idea but I'm beginning to think they may need to program in the "shield" so it can be turned on and off as needed (certain days, times, etc.). This will allow us to merge head on with no threat of dying. Otherwise one of the players has to avoid the HO, putting their plane at a disadvantage with a quartering canopy or underbelly shot.
Again, I don't like the HO but it's going to happen. You put yourself at risk by merging co-alt or you climb high so you have enough E to avoid. Of course you climb above 10k, would then be called the astronaut, alt-monkey cherry picker by someone because they didn't want to spend 5 or 10 minutes climbing out. Either way, someone is going to squeak and complain.
Cya up there…
:salute
TITAN
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And speaking for someone I fly with, Ano isn't out looking to HO, just fight and get better. That's all his intentions are. If not, he wouldn't be one of my 80th guys.
I never said anything bad about Ano. I only commented on the situation which he asked to be commented on. I said it was a weak shot, which it was. No biggy, we all take weak shots from time to time. But no reason to try to justify a weak shot as something more than it is.
I don't like the idea but I'm beginning to think they may need to program in the "shield" so it can be turned on and off as needed (certain days, times, etc.). This will allow us to merge head on with no threat of dying. Otherwise one of the players has to avoid the HO, putting their plane at a disadvantage with a quartering canopy or underbelly shot.
Actually the pilot taking the HO/weak/low percentage shot is putting himself at disadvantage when he misses. I actually enjoy when pilots try to HO me like in this film because when they miss they are screwed. (Not sure why Karaya didn't take advantage of the angle he created and try to come around on Ano)
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Actually the pilot taking the HO/weak/low percentage shot is putting himself at disadvantage when he misses. I actually enjoy when pilots try to HO me like in this film because when they miss they are screwed.
They usually put a hole in my freshly polished plane or in my windscreen...now that makes me mad :mad:
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They usually put a hole in my freshly polished plane or in my windscreen...now that makes me mad :mad:
Then you didn't create enough separation between yourself and the HO'er. :aok
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Neither successfully HO'd, only because one tried to avoid the HO and succeeded. The other tried to HO and failed to close the deal. Look at the thread title - "ho attempt".
Your rape analogy fails because it confuses potential with attempt. It is not a crime to possess the potential to rape, but decide not to do so. It is a crime to make an active attempt to rape even if your intended victim manages to thwart you.
Not to mention that comparing a HO to a felony is pretty silly.
What I'm puzzled about is why Anodizer bailed out.
So you turn if you "think" the other guy might ho or might come in line to try ho, interesting. When you have a lane take it unless the other guy tries to ho you..... but do not turn into his lane. No confusion except on your part.
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Continue that scenario--Player B rolls out, as Player A lands 1 lucky @#$#@#$ing hizooka, Player B complains of HO, film shows that at moment of impact, it was a 'front quarter', thus player B is labeled a 'whiner'...that scenario more typical than not, IMO
yup, all these HO twits are worthless for quality gameplay.
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Because the premise is broken, there's a grey area between HO and not HO. The only way to draw a clear line would be on a case by case basis: knowing the two players' intent.
Well said.
There are many times in a fight you may encounter a head on just due to the evasives being done in a multi bandit environment. Often not done with intent at all but just, as the bumper sticker says.."sh*t happens'.
Think of the movie cliche of a motorist swerving to avoid a baby carriage only to go head on into oncoming traffic. He did everything deliberately, but did not intend to go head on with another car.
Intent is key.
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Most definitely a HO attempt. Instead of lazily gong for HO shot, he could have created an angular merge where the fight would have ended right then and there. :aok
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The neverending HO discussion... :furious
Bottom line - until HT decides to write an "anti-HO shield" like we had in Air Warrior, it will be part of the game and you're going to have to deal with it.
the day HT adds a "anti-HO shield" disgrace of a joke into AH like they had in AW is the day I hang my AH hat up for good. To kill an obviously realistic capability like that for the sake of "gameplay" completely ruins the entire gaming experience.
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So you turn if you "think" the other guy might ho or might come in line to try ho, interesting. When you have a lane take it unless the other guy tries to ho you..... but do not turn into his lane. No confusion except on your part.
I'm trying to translate this into comprehensible English without success. Anyway, it doesn't matter what I ""think."" It matters what the pilot in question "does." When you point your nose at someone else who's headed toward you from 3k out, keep your nose pointed at him throughout the merge, and fire as soon as he's in range, what you have done is to attempt a HO, regardless of what the outcome is. If you miss because the other pilot managed to evade your fire, that doesn't make it not a HO attempt, it makes it an incompetent HO attempt. What the other pilot ""thinks"" doesn't change that either way.
As for "lanes," I've never seen any white or yellow lines painted on the sky in AH2, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
No "confusion" at all, except on your part, since you seem unable to grasp the concept of "attempt." :rolleyes:
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And speaking for someone I fly with, Ano isn't out looking to HO, just fight and get better. That's all his intentions are. If not, he wouldn't be one of my 80th guys.
I think that if we can leave the drama aside we have a film (initial few seconds) that can provide an excellent vehicle to discuss certain realities of ACM.
1st, this simply wasn't a HO. Further it wasn't actually a merge either...at least by my definition. What we have in reality is nothing other then a gun pass caught on film. We have a high speed (430mph+) pass on a slower (260 MPH) bogey. Thats it, nothing more nothing less. Now viewed in the context of a B&Z pass there is no such thing as a "HO". Your decision to continue in if the bogey squares up is one of continuing your pass or denying the attempted HO from the target.
The simple reality is that if a faster plane is targeting you the options are simple. Avoid the pass or try and square up for the "50/50" shot. The simple truth is that a B&Z pass by definition is inferior to an E attack. The 38 had better options to create a sustainable advantage and higher % shot...
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5 pages and Karaya hasnt even responded, <S>K.
Oh please.... Do you guys "cross streams" in the boys bathroom too? Jeeze.... Talk about a man crush...
That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him.... Be sure to get your compensation....
"<S>" my arse....
My definition of HO is exactly that... A HEAD-ON SHOT were both guys go in nose to nose with guns blazing....
That's not what this is.. Regardless of what you guys think I wanted to do or what I was going do to, I had
no intention of doing a head-on shot(but from now on, I'll be sure to take the shot :t) I missed a FRONT QUARTER shot(my aim sucks, forgive me)... It's simply a front quarter shot because
if ANY of you guys saying it's ho would've done the exact shot on me, it would've been a FRONT QUARTER SHOT....
So, that's what it will be.... Anyone has a problem with that, I have some fresh cat-crap you can feast on with your dogs....Dogs love cat crap..
This "discussion" wasn't meant to be about whether or not I had missed or whether or not I had performed the wrong maneuver or
didn't continue the fight like it should've been done.. Many of you have taken it to that level probably to inflate your own already grossly inflated egos....
For those of you "concerned" with my bailing: I bailed and logged so I could watch the film.. I apologize for not giving you more ammunition with which to
continue your ego self inflation..
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You know, the whole topic of being ho'ed is going to be one of then things that's never going to be settled,
right or wrong, who knows.............
Is it a Ho or not, there are no judges.............
Is it ever going to stop, No...........
And as for as I'm concerned if your in a fight to your virtual death, it's just like a street fight, anything goes! I just wish that people would stop with the complaining and name calling, because I know that there or more then a few players out there use the ho as an excuse for being shot down. I had a squad mate A couple of years ago and every time he was shot down, you could wait for the " the @*&@#%* ho'ed me" and I seen him more then one time get shot from the back or I even seen him Lawn Dart and he claimed he was ho'ed :rofl. So Anodizer don't sweat it man I get the "you ho tard" PM every now and then and I think yap but your the one walking home!
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Oh please.... Do you guys "cross streams" in the boys bathroom too? Jeeze.... Talk about a man crush...
That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him.... Be sure to get your compensation....
"<S>" my arse....
My definition of HO is exactly that... A HEAD-ON SHOT were both guys go in nose to nose with guns blazing....
That's not what this is.. Regardless of what you guys think I wanted to do or what I was going do to, I had
no intention of doing a head-on shot(but from now on, I'll be sure to take the shot :t) I missed a FRONT QUARTER shot(my aim sucks, forgive me)... It's simply a front quarter shot because
if ANY of you guys saying it's ho would've done the exact shot on me, it would've been a FRONT QUARTER SHOT....
So, that's what it will be.... Anyone has a problem with that, I have some fresh cat-crap you can feast on with your dogs....Dogs love cat crap..
This "discussion" wasn't meant to be about whether or not I had missed or whether or not I had performed the wrong maneuver or
didn't continue the fight like it should've been done.. Many of you have taken it to that level probably to inflate your own already grossly inflated egos....
For those of you "concerned" with my bailing: I bailed and logged so I could watch the film.. I apologize for not giving you more ammunition with which to
continue your ego self inflation..
Well you can learn a couple of things here.
1. Think twice about posting this kind of film. Rarely will you get the response you are looking for.
2. You need to admit to yourself that you made a mistake in your flying. You had every intention to HO in that first shot. Had you not you would have maneuvered to saddle up on the spit instead of wasting energy and position going for the shot you took. One example would have been to break high left to gain separation, roll inverted to keep an eye on the spit, and then pull into him to saddle up for a much better shot opportunity
You have to admit to yourself that pointing your nose at him the whole time is NOT the best way to go about it. Learn from your mistake, and move on.
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This post/film is a prime example of the "sensitivity" that runs amok within the LW arenas.
It was a 5 second encounter in 1 sortie on 1 night ... Karaya call it a HO and because of that, you were upset enough to post this drivel to see if we agree with him or you ... Who gives a flyin rats arse whether it was a HO and not a HO and why would you care if Karaya called it an HO ? ... what earth shaking event will take place or not take place due to the overall consensus of whether this is a HO or not a HO.
IMHO ... Karaya never should have said anything ... had he just accepted the situation for what it was and then continued on with his sortie ... this BS BBS whine would have been avoided and 200 would have had 1 less childish rant in the text buffer.
Yeagar already pointed this out but it seemed to get glossed over ... the most interesting and most telling thing in that film was the conversations that were taking place on 200 ... it is a prime example of what the LW MA arenas have devolved to.
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While an HO I wouldn't call that a bad HO. Ive had guys Ive been chasing, while in far slower airplanes, just turn around for no reason and fly right into my face. The ride they are in has every advantage in speed, turn, climb, and acceleration, and still they pull these suicidal stunts. Had a guy do it yesterday in a Spit-16 after I broke him off my squadie. This HO you can almost call a reflex HO and while still an HO I wouldn't get all upset over it. P-38s have it so bad with pilot wounding you have to be a little fast on the trigger.
As to "perch flying" thats just good tactics. Many times thats the only edge the P-38 has so why not use it? Nothing wrong with keeping the high ground and using the hybrid B & Z'ing of P-38s. This entire incident should have been a non-starter.
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This is the single most ridiculous post. ACM includes having to take HO or rudder deflection shots on an opponent, especially when the planes are closely matched. If I am 100 feet to either side of a plane @ co alt or on the ground in tight a turn, I will engage my rudder to get good guns on him. I have gotten many kills this way. IMO a head on shot is when two guys are flying in a straight line at one another and either collide or blow the other guy outta the air. I have also been brained (PW) trying to avoid these types of encounters. Why because I got to close. If you don't want to be caught up in these types of engagements then turn sooner, climb sooner, or dive sooner bout 1.5 k out and I will bet you all of your HO woes will disappear. HO in the MA is like HO on the street nobody likes to get caught in one. :devil
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Hello Anodizer,
There are only few things that you have done incorrectly here:
1)Giving a care what anyone says on channel 200. Just detune it, it is not worth effort of monitoring.
2)Posting it here and subjecting yourself to harsh review by the BBS crowd.
3)Arguing semantics on what is or is not a HO. Probably the hottest issues there is on these boards, and not likely to be resolved any time soon.
Have a great day,
Way(the Diplomat)
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The court rules in favor of the Defendant. Video evidence proves that this was not a HO. We also award the Defendant 250perkies to be taken from the plantiff and video game court cost's of $100 to be mailed to ME.
Next case please...... :D
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HO in the MA is like HO on the street nobody likes to get caught in one.
Remember: You cant make a HO a Housewife... :D
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The court rules in favor of the Defendant. Video evidence proves that this was not a HO. We also award the Defendant 250perkies to be taken from the plantiff and video game court cost's of $100 to be mailed to ME.
Next case please...... :D
We have to call Bucky... your Honor now? :)
Well we can let it drop now as Anno will not be renewing his account. He's decided he has more important things to do than sit at a computer. He's a good guy that got caught up in the BS that seems to frequent the LW arenas. He always has been one open to suggestions on his flying and wanting to learn. We need more just like him in AH. Unfortunately they are few and far between.
The 80th will miss having him in the ranks.
Thanks to the fellas that tried to help.
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He's quitting the game over this BS?
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tell him to simply turn off channel 200 and to ".squelch 1" (all channel). Most of the time those two channels provide nothing but distractions to the game anyway. The goal is to kill the red icons.....not to have to listen to their insufferable whines afterwords.
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Oh please.... Do you guys "cross streams" in the boys bathroom too? Jeeze.... Talk about a man crush...
That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him.... Be sure to get your compensation....
"<S>" my arse....
:rofl :rofl :rofl Dont take your anger out on me. You were the one stupid enough to create this thread and then cry because you didnt get the response you wanted.
I saluted Karaya because he chose not to jump in and throw mud back and fourth with you, I probably wouldnt of handled it that well.
Is this how the rest of the 80'th acts?
:rofl
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He's quitting the game over this BS?
.....er......
In AvA we've found, over the years, that people have very different tolerance levels for Channel 200 abuse. Some consider it harmless banter. Some take it personally. Anodizer was plainly troubled enough by it to start this thread.
One might be inclined to say, "Well, if they can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." The problem is that you lose a lot of good cooks that way.
- oldman
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That only makes him a whiny b-i-t-c-h without the stones to come here and state his case without resorting to snide remarks and poke you in the eye type comments..
Apparently, a few of you have done that for him....
I assume that this was directed towards me as well because you quoted me. I DIDNOT make any comments about the video,who was right, who was wrong or you personally.
OH...and by the way, nice HO Anodizer.
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Well we can let it drop now as Anno will not be renewing his account.
Now we've gone from silly to just funny, in a rediculous sort of way.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl Dont take your anger out on me. You were the one stupid enough to create this thread and then cry because you didnt get the response you wanted.
I saluted Karaya because he chose not to jump in and throw mud back and fourth with you, I probably wouldnt of handled it that well.
Is this how the rest of the 80'th acts?
:rofl
Yes. It's a bit of a right of passage for an 80th Headhunter. Amazing what you can catch with used and stinky bait :aok
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,228405.0.html
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I think when people say they're not renewing thier account because of this or that... its BS... The only reason I would quit is when I can't afford it anymore... hehehe.. That's probably the case a lot of times....
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Gents, part of the game here is trash talk.... Some of you blow it off and could care less.... Some of you get involved....
Some like myself ask why it is necessary? I wasn't looking to get any kind of specific answer out of this thread...
My intention was to find out the necessity of the trash talk along with what is considered a head-on these days..
Apparently, talking trash (and I mean no offense to anyone when saying this) is just part of the game..
Well, I guess I'm just not good at that part as far as accepting it and dishing it out....
Maybe I've got anger issues, I don't know.... I've got some things going on in life right now that drastically reduce my patience for this sort of thing..
Stodd, Karaya, my comments were unacceptable regardless of how ever I was offended.... I apologize to both of you and anyone else that
may have been affected by my negativity...
I played this game to learn, have fun and attempt to have a good rapport with everyone as I learned this from Dan and the rest of the 80th..
They are all stand up guys and things I have said here are certainly not representative of them..
In this respect, if it's come down to me being pissed off by words, I find that a good reason to take an indefinite break...
:salute
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Stodd, Karaya, my comments were unacceptable regardless of how ever I was offended.... I apologize to both of you and anyone else that
may have been affected by my negativity...
They are all stand up guys and things I have said here are certainly not representative of them.
Dont worry about it, turn 200 off and shrug off any unfriendly comments made towards you. As far as my comment about the 80'th goes, I just wanted to see how many of em would jump on me, I actually have had good fights with many of em and enjoy their sense of humor.
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nevermind
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Gents, part of the game here is trash talk.... Some of you blow it off and could care less.... Some of you get involved....
Some like myself ask why it is necessary? I wasn't looking to get any kind of specific answer out of this thread...
My intention was to find out the necessity of the trash talk along with what is considered a head-on these days..
Apparently, talking trash (and I mean no offense to anyone when saying this) is just part of the game..
Well, I guess I'm just not good at that part as far as accepting it and dishing it out....
Maybe I've got anger issues, I don't know.... I've got some things going on in life right now that drastically reduce my patience for this sort of thing..
Stodd, Karaya, my comments were unacceptable regardless of how ever I was offended.... I apologize to both of you and anyone else that
may have been affected by my negativity...
I played this game to learn, have fun and attempt to have a good rapport with everyone as I learned this from Dan and the rest of the 80th..
They are all stand up guys and things I have said here are certainly not representative of them..
In this respect, if it's come down to me being pissed off by words, I find that a good reason to take an indefinite break...
:salute
It wasn't even harsh....definitely nothing to quit over....I mean he didn't even mention your mother or anything....so you squeezed off a HO attempt....so what.....I would have called you a HO twit....but then it would be over....nothing to quit over here...that I see. :aok
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Mayhap the next time send a link to film in a PM....
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In this respect, if it's come down to me being pissed off by words, I find that a good reason to take an indefinite break...
FWIW, I do not believe that having open comms with the people you are fighting in game is necessarily a good thing. It can be, but if you dislike smack as much as I do you would be far better off, and your enjoyment of the game far better served, if you would permanently deselect channel 200 and squelch channel 1.
Take a few days off and come back with an enlightened attitude. It is good.
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Cant see the film since I am at work so, who won? lol After all, HOs are very easy to avoid and the HOer dies a few seconds after
Bahahahaha :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Don't quit Ano, no one wants you to quit. It's really no big deal, I HO merge something almost every time i log in...hey I do fly the mossy... I have also been ho'ed by the best flyers in the game many times.
Just suck it up and keep playing, changing names or deleting accounts is just a waste of time.
S!
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Cant see the film since I am at work so, who won? lol After all, HOs are very easy to avoid and the HOer dies a few seconds after
Bahahahaha :rofl :rofl :rofl
noone...it was just a lazy HO pass, no big deal really.
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It irks me when people start filling the text buffer on ch. 1, with complaints that they've been the victim of , yet, another HO. In my book a HO can ONLY happen when two A/C are headed towards each other with blazing gun/cannon muzzles pointed directly towards one another with no regard for one's own virtual safety. In this case the Attacking Pilot who lines himself up w/o that regard for personal safety has instigated a HO. Dweeb! Sure, it has happened in real life, as Torgo pointed out in another thread but, I think that it was the exception (could be wrong). In AH everyone knows it happens much more often because one can re-spawn if shot down. What a HO is not...A HO is NOT taking a front-quarter, front-hemisphere, ect. shot on your opponent. If ya' get shot down when somebody does this to you...tough luck! Don't bother whining about it on open channel when all the other person did was take the shot that you presented by not maneuvering out'a the way! Dweeb! I'd like to think that in real life a combat pilot wouldn't think twice about kicking over his rudder over, ect. to nail an oncoming bogey on the 1st pass when it presented no danger to himself. Nothing out of the ordinary there IMO. BTW, more than one person flies under this handle and this is the opinion of only one of those people. For those of you that don't know either one of us, my name is Craig. It's entirely possible that my logic is totally screwed so, I gladly invite anyone who wants to flame me to do it. I'd like to see some good discussion on this very old topic.
:rofl
They had this figured out long ago....... well before the "ME" generation... :lol