Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: akusher on June 26, 2009, 02:20:16 PM
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Anybody here have any experience with these cars?
Specifically, how to spot oil seal leakage without waiting for a puddle to collect on the garage floor?
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you thinking about buying a used one?, if so I would do the right thing and take it to a Porsche repair shop and pay to have them check the car out.
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Fun to drive but just too darn small.
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Anybody here have any experience with these cars?
Specifically, how to spot oil seal leakage without waiting for a puddle to collect on the garage floor?
hit your local napa store. you should be able to by\uy a dye kit. you put uv dye in the engine oil...it's made for it.......then drive it a little......look around in the engine compartment for the dye..using a uv light. the dye generally shows up neon green........follow it. where it ends, is where the leak is.
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Anybody here have any experience with these cars?
Specifically, how to spot oil seal leakage without waiting for a puddle to collect on the garage floor?
Is it air or water cooled? Do not use dye, your oil will be green forever.
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Is it air or water cooled? Do not use dye, your oil will be green forever.
and that's a problem because?
when i have any fluid leaking on a car, if i can't put it up on the lift, and see where it's coming from, i pop dye in it. it is THE best way to find a fluid leak on an automotive engine. i've yet to have a complaint about it, after 27 or so years.
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and that's a problem because?
when i have any fluid leaking on a car, if i can't put it up on the lift, and see where it's coming from, i pop dye in it. it is THE best way to find a fluid leak on an automotive engine. i've yet to have a complaint about it, after 27 or so years.
Its a problem because its not professional. Popping dye in it before putting car on the lift, bravo
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Its a problem because its not professional. Popping dye in it before putting car on the lift, bravo
you obviously don't know much about cars then.
i've been fixing them for 27 or so years. dye is the best way. when you go under it, if it's been driven at all, the oil will be spread all over the place, making it impossible to determine where it came from......assuming it isn't pouring out.
i've never had a customer complaint, because i put dye in their oil. i have had some say it was a great idea, as it makes it more visible.
just an FYI, the dye will NOTturn your oil green to the naked eye..
so...back to the original topic........clean it, put dye in it, run it, use the uv light, and find the leak.
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The 911 has an air-cooled horizontally opposed (boxer) six-cylinder engine. The crank and cam are accessed by splitting the entire crankcase. the cylinders or "jugs" and heads are bolted to the sides of the crankcase. By the nature of their design, these engines leak oil right out of the factory. A 911 engine that leaks oil is not a bad 911 engine, it's just a 911 engine.
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Sluggish, the 996 was the first 911 to have a water-cooled engine.
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They are kinda like old Harley's...expect them to leak oil. Just think of it as they are making their territory!
DuHasst
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you obviously don't know much about cars then.
i've been fixing them for 27 or so years. dye is the best way. when you go under it, if it's been driven at all, the oil will be spread all over the place, making it impossible to determine where it came from......assuming it isn't pouring out.
i've never had a customer complaint, because i put dye in their oil. i have had some say it was a great idea, as it makes it more visible.
just an FYI, the dye will NOTturn your oil green to the naked eye..
so...back to the original topic........clean it, put dye in it, run it, use the uv light, and find the leak.
I know enough to find an oil leak without popping dye in engine. 10 years for me, never had to use it,
FYI it does change color to the naked eye, unless you are color blind, which makes me wonder.
And yes!! I've had several complains about strange oil color, probably your customers:)
This is turning ugly.
Accept my apologies but i am ending this argument.
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I know enough to find an oil leak without popping dye in engine. 10 years for me, never had to use it,
FYI it does change color to the naked eye, unless you are color blind, which makes me wonder.
And yes!! I've had several complains about strange oil color, probably your customers:)
This is turning ugly.
Accept my apologies but i am ending this argument.
it's not an argument...it's a discussion.
i put 1/2 of the little 3 ounce bottles in a v8. the oil looks normal, except for around the filler cap, where you can see evidence of it.
you haven;t been in it long enough to see some of the really fun oil leaks then at 10 years....and i'm not trying to be derogatory.
i work on everything. if it is driven on the street, and can fit in my bay, i can fix it......diagnose it......make it work again.
in all honesty, i pretty much despise most european manufacturers.....my preference is towards asian and american cars. volvos aren't too bad either....ugly, but not too bad.
i was looking online at these engines......seems they have a fairly significant failure rate too.......
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This is the first time Ive heard of people pouring a solution into the engine oil to look for leaks, to Find oil leaks is pretty easy and should not require a solution IMHO, firstly you Identify what type of oil it is by smell or colour, ie transmission fluid, engine oil, brake fluid or even coolant. then you look for seepage or if no visible leak can be identified due to it be splashed over a large space of the engine bay/block you work down from the highest point of oil and going from there, any competent mechanic and DIY mechanics should not have a problem with identifying a leak no matter how small or big.
I have very little experience with American engines, just euro & jap engines, I also own a race car which coincidentally next week I'm fully rebuilding the engine and replacing 95% of the engine parts. CAP1 you know Volvo engines are the same as the ford engines in most of there cars, as ford own volvo. Over here people do not like American cars/engines that much either... So I think it mostly comes to what your use to etc.I don't like, Ford/Vauxhall/French/VAG engines that much like I said I love jap engines but thats mostly because thats where my experience is in.
I recomend you view this website and ask any questions as there are alot of Porsche specialists that will be able to offer you alot of advice,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/
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Shouldn't UV dye only show up green under a UV light...? Otherwise, it would just look like oil?
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Shouldn't UV dye only show up green under a UV light...? Otherwise, it would just look like oil?
WINNER!!
:aok
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This is the first time Ive heard of people pouring a solution into the engine oil to look for leaks, to Find oil leaks is pretty easy and should not require a solution IMHO, firstly you Identify what type of oil it is by smell or colour, ie transmission fluid, engine oil, brake fluid or even coolant. then you look for seepage or if no visible leak can be identified due to it be splashed over a large space of the engine bay/block you work down from the highest point of oil and going from there, any competent mechanic and DIY mechanics should not have a problem with identifying a leak no matter how small or big.
I have very little experience with American engines, just euro & jap engines, I also own a race car which coincidentally next week I'm fully rebuilding the engine and replacing 95% of the engine parts. CAP1 you know Volvo engines are the same as the ford engines in most of there cars, as ford own volvo. Over here people do not like American cars/engines that much either... So I think it mostly comes to what your use to etc.I don't like, Ford/Vauxhall/French/VAG engines that much like I said I love jap engines but thats mostly because thats where my experience is in.
I recomend you view this website and ask any questions as there are alot of Porsche specialists that will be able to offer you alot of advice,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/
volvo engines may now be the same as ford engines, but that may not be the case.
the ford probe had mazda engines in it. the ford escort(later models)had mazda engines. the mazda protege(same as the escort) had mazda engines, but if i recall, as it's been awhile since i worked on one, they had ford EEC4 control systems.
the older volvos(the ugly box ones) that had the 2.3 turbo, was not a ford engine,,,,,,and a very dependable, and easy to repair vehicle.
the audi's i've worked on(which seem to me to be nothing more than overpriced volkswagens), have the same waterpump problems at the vw's.
some (real rocket scientist) engineer, decided to knurl the waterpump shaft, and press a plastic impeller onto it. how frakkin stupid is that??? these things fail by 50k miles(at least the ones in the US do). the volkswagens seem to have thermostat issues either just before, or just after the waterpump(although i replace the stat with the pump if i can convince the customer). if the stat fails first, it will normally stress the system juuuust enough to cause a failure on the waterpump.
the vw 2.3(i think) non turbo in the new beetle........this guy saw his idiot light come on, and continued driving for a few(after i pryed the info from him, it turned out a "few" was about 10) miles. popped the head gasket. it overheated, because the impeller came off the shaft on the waterpump. he said he didn't think it cold be that, because he had the pump done at the dealer at around 52k. it had 99k on it when i got it.
did the head gasket, took it for a test drive, and lost oil pressure. guess what????? vw put a PLASTIC :O oil baffle in the rocker cover. it melted. they had a PLASTIC windage tray. it started to melt. the molten plastic blocked the oil pump pickup screen. real genius there..... :x
the few jag's i've worked on were mostly suspension work. the rear suspension(i think it was an xj12?) had such an over-complicated crappy rear suspension set-up, it was almost embarrassing.
saabs? you techs, and mechanics know what we all think of them. when one pulls in the parking lot......."eehh.......here comes anothersob story"
not comfortable to drive, not particularity powerful, not setting the world on fire with their handling....
mercedes........probably not really that bad, but i've yet to drive one thaT i like the feel of. they all smell like old furniture to me inside, and don't accelerate, handle, or stop the way i'd expect a top end european car to.
bmw.........i've driven quite a few that i really like, but they have their issued too. surge tanks that go bad, map controlled thermostats that go bad, on the older models, i've had a few bad bushings in the rear suspension. i've done a lot of balljoints in the front suspension. that seems like a poor design, although most bmw's i've driven handle exceptionally well.
so, with the experiences above, you can see why i don't much care for european cars.....and i've ALWAYS worked in general repair shops. i learned to fix anything that rolls into my bay. i've never worked at a dealer, and thankfully so, as most dealer techs i know, are lost when they need to work on something besides their make.
most asian cars i like. hondas and toyotas are frakking great cars. probably the absolute most dependable cars on the roads today.
most don't seem to like many american cars, but ford, chrysler, and gm ALL are producing much better cars than they're given credit for. they all have some very dependable cars.
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the audi's I've worked on(which seem to me to be nothing more than overpriced Volkswagen's), have the same waterpump problems at the vw's.
That's because Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda all form the VAG group and all use the exact same engines,chassis's, parts and most of the trim is very similar. Most of the parts either have the VAG logo on, or the individual company name like seat, skoda, audi..but each part is still interchangeable.
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CAP1, ignore KgB's "monthly pissing match". He cowers for a month and crawls out, to only cower again. He's never heard of UV dye.
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That's because Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda all form the VAG group and all use the exact same engines,chassis's, parts and most of the trim is very similar. Most of the parts either have the VAG logo on, or the individual company name like seat, skoda, audi..but each part is still interchangeable.
i don't think we have skoda, or seat over here...if we do, i haven't seen one yet.
i knew audi and vw were pretty much the same....but i thought porsche was part of them too?
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CAP1, ignore KgB's "monthly pissing match". He cowers for a month and crawls out, to only cower again. He's never heard of UV dye.
that would explain his lack of understanding of it.....hence his almost violent negative comment towards it. people tend to not like and fear what they don't know about.
with only 10 years in the field, i'd think he'd want to learn. like i said...i've got around 27 years under my belt, and i still learn whenever i can. that's what keeps this job fun, and interesting.
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I agree with vw and audi being a pain in the but to fix. But if you maintain them the proper way, they will go 1 million miles or better on the original tranny and motor.
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I agree with vw and audi being a pain in the but to fix. But if you maintain them the proper way, they will go 1 million miles or better on the original tranny and motor.
from what i've heard, the european ones will......but the ones sold in the US...not so much.
i mean, c'mon........there's no reason on a modern car to have to replace a waterpump at less than 100k miles.....except on audis and vw's.......
and pretty much ANY car in production today will last that long with proper care.
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the few jag's i've worked on were mostly suspension work. the rear suspension(i think it was an xj12?) had such an over-complicated crappy rear suspension set-up, it was almost embarrassing.
for a 1968 design the jags independent rear suspension is an engineering marvel. complex, but so effective - unmatched ride/handling for a car of that weight. separate subframe and multiple bushes for reduced NVH, inboard disks (not drums note) to reduce unsprung weight, quad dampers etc. drove an early 70s XJ6 a few years back and couldnt believe just how fantastic the ride was - better than many modern saloons which have been ruined by development on the 'ring.
woudnt want to repair it though. then again, if you charge by the hour ... ;)
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for a 1968 design the jags independent rear suspension is an engineering marvel. complex, but so effective - unmatched ride/handling for a car of that weight. separate subframe and multiple bushes for reduced NVH, inboard disks (not drums note) to reduce unsprung weight, quad dampers etc. drove an early 70s XJ6 a few years back and couldnt believe just how fantastic the ride was - better than many modern saloons which have been ruined by development on the 'ring.
woudnt want to repair it though. then again, if you charge by the hour ... ;)
heh......on over-complicated, over engineered systems, sometimes even charging by the hour isn't worth it.
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mercedes........probably not really that bad, but i've yet to drive one thaT i like the feel of. they all smell like old furniture to me inside, and don't accelerate, handle, or stop the way i'd expect a top end european car to.
Sorry but I find that hard to believe. You ever tried the AMG55 kompressor or AMG63 models? 4.5 seconds 0-60 is not sluggish to me. I find my E320 with it's 7 second 0-60 quite enough for daily drive.
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Actually my boss has one of those, after 3 years the thing is a disaster. It's noisy on the freeway, vibrates, and every little thing in the cockpit rattles. He's not happy on how bad the car aged compared to the price tag.
(http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8071_image.jpg)
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Sorry but I find that hard to believe. You ever tried the AMG55 kompressor or AMG63 models? 4.5 seconds 0-60 is not sluggish to me. I find my E320 with it's 7 second 0-60 quite enough for daily drive.
i haven't had any of the "hot rod" benze's in here.
i do have a customer that has a 2 seater, labeled "kompressor" on the fenders. it sucks. it doesn't handle well, not fast, was uncomfortable to sit in, and i didn't like the feel of the brakes.
i have another customer that has a chrysler crossfire. it seems to be a re-skinned mercedes. his has a v-8 in it. feels kinda quick, and handles ok, but i still don't care for the feel of the brakes. it also has more blind spots than my E-350 cargo van.
i wasn't meaning to put mercedes down with my last post. i just am talking of my personal experiences with them.
i do have an 89 300 sel that was abandoned on my lot. it only needs a cylinder head. as soon as i get the title, i'm going to install the new head, and drive that, as they felt pretty nice to me in the past.
as for my preferences for european cars........i like bmw's. i've driven 3 series, and 5 series, worked on em both, and although i don't like fixing them, i do like the way they feel driving. a buddy has a z3. i love that car.
oo...and 7 seconds 0-60?????? that's pitiful by todays standards.........for almost anything.
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you obviously don't know much about cars then.
i've been fixing them for 27 or so years. dye is the best way. when you go under it, if it's been driven at all, the oil will be spread all over the place, making it impossible to determine where it came from......assuming it isn't pouring out.
i've never had a customer complaint, because i put dye in their oil. i have had some say it was a great idea, as it makes it more visible.
just an FYI, the dye will NOTturn your oil green to the naked eye..
so...back to the original topic........clean it, put dye in it, run it, use the uv light, and find the leak.
Cap I am going to have to report you to the EPA for introducing dye to the environment , also to the better business bureau for sub standard practices :lol
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This is the first time Ive heard of people pouring a solution into the engine oil to look for leaks, to Find oil leaks is pretty easy and should not require a solution IMHO, firstly you Identify what type of oil it is by smell or colour, ie transmission fluid, engine oil, brake fluid or even coolant. then you look for seepage or if no visible leak can be identified due to it be splashed over a large space of the engine bay/block you work down from the highest point of oil and going from there, any competent mechanic and DIY mechanics should not have a problem with identifying a leak no matter how small or big.
I have very little experience with American engines, just euro & jap engines, I also own a race car which coincidentally next week I'm fully rebuilding the engine and replacing 95% of the engine parts. CAP1 you know Volvo engines are the same as the ford engines in most of there cars, as ford own volvo. Over here people do not like American cars/engines that much either... So I think it mostly comes to what your use to etc.I don't like, Ford/Vauxhall/French/VAG engines that much like I said I love jap engines but thats mostly because thats where my experience is in.
I recomend you view this website and ask any questions as there are alot of Porsche specialists that will be able to offer you alot of advice,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/
Well one thing for sure ......... Ford has produced some of the finest racing engines EVER, Just ask Jackie Stewart and Colin Chapman, oh wait Chapman is dead. I do like most British cars however nobody ever had as bad of a reputation for producing extremely unreliable cars as the Brit's have, except maybe the Italians. Except the Italians alway had better looking cars. Now that being said Rolls, Bently have come a long way with their cars and Austin Martin has always been a good looking car.
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... and Austin Martin has ...
ZOMG! :eek:
(http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-Burn_him.jpg)
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ZOMG! :eek:
(http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-Burn_him.jpg)
Now I know salt Lake doesn't see many of them but they are a very nice looking car.
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Uh.....
Old Rolls Royce?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/rolls.gif)
How about the AC Bristol?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/acbristol.jpg)
Jaguar?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/jaguar.jpg)
MG?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/mg.jpg)
Triumph Spitfire?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/spitfire.jpg)
I could list a number of others, but I think you get the drift. Many European cars do not fit the American idea of what looks good in a car. However, there are some very classic designs that came from Europe, which many American car designs were/are based on.
Where do you think we got the "long hood, short body" sports/muscle car look from? We did not create it.
By the way, it is "Aston Martin".
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Cap I am going to have to report you to the EPA for introducing dye to the environment , also to the better business bureau for sub standard practices :lol
HEY!!!
actually, the dye is properly disposed of according to EAP regulations, along with the oil. :aok
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Uh.....
Old Rolls Royce?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/rolls.gif)
How about the AC Bristol?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/acbristol.jpg)
Jaguar?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/jaguar.jpg)
MG?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/mg.jpg)
Triumph Spitfire?
(http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/screenshots/skuzzy/spitfire.jpg)
I could list a number of others, but I think you get the drift. Many European cars do not fit the American idea of what looks good in a car. However, there are some very classic designs that came from Europe, which many American car designs were/are based on.
Where do you think we got the "long hood, short body" sports/muscle car look from? We did not create it.
By the way, it is "Aston Martin".
lee iococca in the ford mustang.
i've always loved the loos of the jag e-types? that's what the one you pictured is, right?
the only reliable triumphs, and mg's ive seen here, are the ones that were "hot rodded" with american v-8's
i may be aquiring a 74 spitfire for stupidly cheap....and if the deal goes through, it will have a fuel injected 5.0L with a borg warner t5 in it within a year.
if anyone is thinking i'm trying to put down european cars, i'm not. i'm just talking of my personal experiences working on them over the years.
we had a guy at atco raceway, years ago, had one of those bullet shaped jags.......stuck a 350 chevy, with a turbo400 tranny, and i don't know what kinda rear. the car was running 10.5's all day long in the middle of the summer. was the most unique car there, except for the 454 beetle. :aok
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Actually Cap that Jag is a "D" the car the "E" stole it's lines from!
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Kinda wonderin, Cap ..
..have you had a chance to drive a C-5 Vette ('98-2004)
I've driven a few cars here an there .. the C-5 surprised the heck outta me.
Sure .. the doors rattle a little reminding me of any Camaro .. but the handling, driveability, overall 'balance' of the car just reeled me in.
Steering isn't quite as fast as I thought it would be, works great tho (not as twitchy as an MGB)
Brakes are spot on, acceleration just about matches braking forces (and of course you can improve all of it :)
The car we owned for 3+ years was an anvil, I put 26k miles on it, almost hated to drive over bumpy roads as the Z-51 suspension was at least as harsh as our 4wd Durango.. but man would it hurt you in a corner :)
-Frank aka GE
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Now I know salt Lake doesn't see many of them but they are a very nice looking car.
It's one of my iconic car, I have a dedicated shrine in my basement ... and as such whoever says "Austin Martin" rather than "Aston Martin" should be burned alive. :t
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Kinda wonderin, Cap ..
..have you had a chance to drive a C-5 Vette ('98-2004)
I've driven a few cars here an there .. the C-5 surprised the heck outta me.
Sure .. the doors rattle a little reminding me of any Camaro .. but the handling, driveability, overall 'balance' of the car just reeled me in.
Steering isn't quite as fast as I thought it would be, works great tho (not as twitchy as an MGB)
Brakes are spot on, acceleration just about matches braking forces (and of course you can improve all of it :)
The car we owned for 3+ years was an anvil, I put 26k miles on it, almost hated to drive over bumpy roads as the Z-51 suspension was at least as harsh as our 4wd Durango.. but man would it hurt you in a corner :)
-Frank aka GE
The newest vette i've driven, was my old boss;s 96(i think). it was still the body style like the white one somene else had here on the bbs for a friend. it was an impressive car.
i can also tell you that the only reason i didn't come for your car, was that i'm getting a waste oil heater set up in my shop for this winter. i can't afford 2 big purchases right now.....and it sucks that i had to make the "grown up" decision, and buy the heater for the shop, rather than the fun fast car.
it's like i've said before. i like fords first. i like pretty much ANY american muscle car though, and wouldn't hesitate to buy a chevy if i had the money....and i think yours went for one helluva deal.
i think i'd have wanted the hooters chicks with it though. :x
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It's one of my iconic car, I have a dedicated shrine in my basement ... and as such whoever says "Austin Martin" rather than "Aston Martin" should be burned alive. :t
That was for all of the Hillbillys out there, none of them even know how to spell Jagwire. :rofl
Seriously I see about 3-4 a day where I live. I one time saw at a traffic light a Porsche GT, Lamborghini, Ferrari and Bentley. All driven by old men. They all left the light at a crawl.
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heh.....a couple years ago, i was with my girlfriend on the nj turnpike, heading up north to an airshow.
i look in the rearview, and as far back as i can see, i see the front profile of something fast looking, and italian looking. in the time it took me to say "hey honey, check" the damned thing was past me. i was doin 85. he went my be like i wasn;t moving. :x
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heh.....a couple years ago, i was with my girlfriend on the nj turnpike, heading up north to an airshow.
i look in the rearview, and as far back as i can see, i see the front profile of something fast looking, and italian looking. in the time it took me to say "hey honey, check" the damned thing was past me. i was doin 85. he went my be like i wasn;t moving. :x
It probally was Lips in his Ferrari, you know the one he bought from his "ON THE TAKE" money.
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It probally was Lips in his Ferrari, you know the one he bought from his "ON THE TAKE" money.
oooo....careful there dude.....him or lazy see that, they;re either gonna give themselves a heart attack laughing, ot they're gonna be foaming at the mouth........
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The 911 has an air-cooled horizontally opposed (boxer) six-cylinder engine. The crank and cam are accessed by splitting the entire crankcase. the cylinders or "jugs" and heads are bolted to the sides of the crankcase. By the nature of their design, these engines leak oil right out of the factory. A 911 engine that leaks oil is not a bad 911 engine, it's just a 911 engine.
Sluggish, the 996s were the first to switch to water cooled, back in 99.
Thanks to the rest of you for all the comments!
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The one I'm thinking of buying is barely used--only about 18k miles--which for a 911 is pretty low. The rear main seal defect is a problem that's plagued the 996 model since its introduction, however, and seems to affect brand new cars at a relatively high frequency. I've read about this defect, in extreme situations, leading to engine replacements--not my idea of fun.
Anyway, I think I'll get a pre-purchase inspection and be done with it... If I go through with it, that is.
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The one I'm thinking of buying is barely used--only about 18k miles--which for a 911 is pretty low. The rear main seal defect is a problem that's plagued the 996 model since its introduction, however, and seems to affect brand new cars at a relatively high frequency. I've read about this defect, in extreme situations, leading to engine replacements--not my idea of fun.
Anyway, I think I'll get a pre-purchase inspection and be done with it... If I go through with it, that is.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR .............take it to a shop that specializes in porsches. especially if this engine is thwe first of its kind..being water cooled that is.
with only 18k on the odometer, you still have pretty much factory warranty left on her too, right>?
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Where are you located? I'm in South Florida, and the mechanic/shop I started using two years ago was the first shop to completely fix the leaks from my 81 911. If you're interested, I'll let you know via PM.
I always heard the adage that 911's all leak some oil, but there's a difference between a tiny leak or drip, and a quart leaking out every 3-4 weeks, which was I had until recently.
I only have 55k miles on the engine, which was blueprinted back in the mid 90's, so it's relatively new, but I had to replace all of the seals again, along with some other things. I can look at the invoices to give you details.
mir
-Adam
The one I'm thinking of buying is barely used--only about 18k miles--which for a 911 is pretty low. The rear main seal defect is a problem that's plagued the 996 model since its introduction, however, and seems to affect brand new cars at a relatively high frequency. I've read about this defect, in extreme situations, leading to engine replacements--not my idea of fun.
Anyway, I think I'll get a pre-purchase inspection and be done with it... If I go through with it, that is.
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yaknow this strikes me as funny.........
american cars have this bad rap as being junk. yet here we war discussing constant oil leak problems in a euro-car, which everyone touts as being so much better than american cars.
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Where are you located? I'm in South Florida, and the mechanic/shop I started using two years ago was the first shop to completely fix the leaks from my 81 911. If you're interested, I'll let you know via PM.
I always heard the adage that 911's all leak some oil, but there's a difference between a tiny leak or drip, and a quart leaking out every 3-4 weeks, which was I had until recently.
I only have 55k miles on the engine, which was blueprinted back in the mid 90's, so it's relatively new, but I had to replace all of the seals again, along with some other things. I can look at the invoices to give you details.
mir
-Adam
God, I only wish I was in South Florida...
I'm way farther north, in VA.
The car's still got some warranty left on it, and supposedly has its entire service history documented and available. It's a 2002, so it's 3 years into the 996 generation and has the 3.6 liter engine, up from the original 3.4. I'm hoping that this little bit of evolution will do away with some of the problems, but I'm not going to take any chances.
I'll certainly let you know how it goes when I get closer to the moment. 911s are plentiful on the used car market around here, and in general, so even if the one i want goes away, there are others candidates.
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yaknow this strikes me as funny.........
american cars have this bad rap as being junk. yet here we war discussing constant oil leak problems in a euro-car, which everyone touts as being so much better than american cars.
Few people have claimed that high-end European cars are low maintenance. BMWs and Mercedes are notoriously expensive to keep in good repair after the first few years. Porsches, considered by some to be the most reliable of the German brands, can last forever and maintain their performance and ride quality if given the proper care. This is a common drawback to investing in precision equipment of any kind.
For those who want their cars to last forever and invest next to nothing in them in the process, Japanese is still the way to go.
While I'm still young and my back hasn't started to go out, I'd rather go for small, fast and exciting--even if I have to budget a coupe hundred bucks a month to make sure it stays that way.
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if its still got warranty left why hasnt the current owner sorted the leaks? I'd be a little suspicious here, imo have them sort the leaks out before you buy. iirc the main culprits are the RMS (you dont want to pay for that) or various hoses (much cheaper :))
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if its still got warranty left why hasnt the current owner sorted the leaks? I'd be a little suspicious here, imo have them sort the leaks out before you buy. iirc the main culprits are the RMS (you dont want to pay for that) or various hoses (much cheaper :))
Sorry for the misunderstanding... there are no leaks that I've been able to see, and none that have been reported. It's just that the model is known for sometimes having these leaks. About 5% of 1999-2001 996s had them. This is a 2002, so the problem may have been sorted out by now, but I'm still understandably concerned and unfortunately can't get enough time with the car to see if it's happening on my own. There may be nothing there at all... But I don't want to pay a lot later for what I can pay a little to find early on.
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Few people have claimed that high-end European cars are low maintenance. BMWs and Mercedes are notoriously expensive to keep in good repair after the first few years. Porsches, considered by some to be the most reliable of the German brands, can last forever and maintain their performance and ride quality if given the proper care. This is a common drawback to investing in precision equipment of any kind.
For those who want their cars to last forever and invest next to nothing in them in the process, Japanese is still the way to go.
While I'm still young and my back hasn't started to go out, I'd rather go for small, fast and exciting--even if I have to budget a coupe hundred bucks a month to make sure it stays that way.
well, i wasn't so much saying that people said they're low maintenance, but rather that they last longer, and have less problems like this.
and please don't mis-interpret me....i'm not meaning to put down your choice.
i think that 3 years into the production, you may be ok. ford had problems with the 4.6L engines when they first came out in the early 90's. the limo dealer i worked at back then, was doing a lot of them under warranty. ford used to send up complete engines, with EVERYTHING already installed. that was how we had to return the engine to them. it seemed that in about 3 or 4 years, they eliminated the problems, and that engine turned out to be an excellent engine.
you should be ok....and although i'm older, and my back does hurt sometimes, i will in the near future, have a smaller somewhat fast car again. :aok
good luck dude....and keep up posted too....preferably with pics!
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well, i wasn't so much saying that people said they're low maintenance, but rather that they last longer, and have less problems like this.
and please don't mis-interpret me....i'm not meaning to put down your choice.
i think that 3 years into the production, you may be ok. ford had problems with the 4.6L engines when they first came out in the early 90's. the limo dealer i worked at back then, was doing a lot of them under warranty. ford used to send up complete engines, with EVERYTHING already installed. that was how we had to return the engine to them. it seemed that in about 3 or 4 years, they eliminated the problems, and that engine turned out to be an excellent engine.
you should be ok....and although i'm older, and my back does hurt sometimes, i will in the near future, have a smaller somewhat fast car again. :aok
good luck dude....and keep up posted too....preferably with pics!
It'll be some weeks yet, but as soon as the trigger is pulled, pics will be posted!
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Few people have claimed that high-end European cars are low maintenance. BMWs and Mercedes are notoriously expensive to keep in good repair after the first few years. Porsches, considered by some to be the most reliable of the German brands, can last forever and maintain their performance and ride quality if given the proper care. This is a common drawback to investing in precision equipment of any kind.
For those who want their cars to last forever and invest next to nothing in them in the process, Japanese is still the way to go.
While I'm still young and my back hasn't started to go out, I'd rather go for small, fast and exciting--even if I have to budget a coupe hundred bucks a month to make sure it stays that way.
Quite the opposite on this BBS.
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Quite the opposite on this BBS.
Well, in my experience, both directly with the machines and indirectly, with the people who own them, the more expensive and technically complex it is off the production line, the more difficult it will be to keep at 100%. Seems natural.
Not talking about the Benzes and BMWs of old, perhaps, but certainly with the more modern generation. It's one of the reasons I don't want to deal with a 4 wheel drive version. More stuff to break.
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Few people have claimed that high-end European cars are low maintenance. BMWs and Mercedes are notoriously expensive to keep in good repair after the first few years. Porsches, considered by some to be the most reliable of the German brands, can last forever and maintain their performance and ride quality if given the proper care. This is a common drawback to investing in precision equipment of any kind.
For those who want their cars to last forever and invest next to nothing in them in the process, Japanese is still the way to go.
While I'm still young and my back hasn't started to go out, I'd rather go for small, fast and exciting--even if I have to budget a coupe hundred bucks a month to make sure it stays that way.
Well stated, I have owned both Porsche and Bmw, AKA BMtroubleeew. The Porsche was a reliable car as was the BMW, except the BMW had way too many scheduled expensive maintenance's in comparison.
My father in law OWNS not leases 4 Mercedes of various models, 2 12 cyl and 2 8cyl. None are more then 2 years old. About every 3-4 years he buys a whole new fleet. Purchasing a new Mercedes outright is about the dumbest move a person can make. One day he offered to sell me his 2004 600S. It had 38,000 miles on it and was as all his cars are , black and as close to new as a used car can get. He said he paid around $135,000 for it when he bought it and would let me have it for $25,000. I told him that I could not accept the car so cheap. He then told me he most likely wouldn't get much more for it. My jaw dropped...... in 5 years he lost over $100,000 on that stupid thing and it was mint !
I have to say that I considered purchasing the car but when I found out what it cost to maintain the thing I passed . It also gets about 8 mpg.
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it's not an argument...it's a discussion.
i put 1/2 of the little 3 ounce bottles in a v8. the oil looks normal, except for around the filler cap, where you can see evidence of it.
you haven;t been in it long enough to see some of the really fun oil leaks then at 10 years....and i'm not trying to be derogatory.
i work on everything. if it is driven on the street, and can fit in my bay, i can fix it......diagnose it......make it work again.
in all honesty, i pretty much despise most european manufacturers.....my preference is towards asian and american cars. volvos aren't too bad either....ugly, but not too bad.
i was looking online at these engines......seems they have a fairly significant failure rate too.......
I work on specific car line, may be thats why i never had to use it. Didnt mean to be insulting.
Never liked to work on Americans tho, every time i do i have use the friggin torch, nothing comes appart.
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CAP1, ignore KgB's "monthly pissing match". He cowers for a month and crawls out, to only cower again. He's never heard of UV dye.
Shouldn't we be friends? I'm starting to like Poland.
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I work on specific car line, may be thats why i never had to use it. Didnt mean to be insulting.
Never liked to work on Americans tho, every time i do i have use the friggin torch, nothing comes appart.
ya.....if my responses to ya seemed harsh, i do apologize..........
where are you in the world? in the US? either way, there's a product made by CRC......it's called freeze off. try it. it's frakkin awsome. it hasn't let me down yet.
as for you working on one car line? i guess that means you work at a dealer? that's not bad, nor is it unusual for a dealer tech(and you/we ARE techs). sometimes i wish i had gone to work for a dealer, and other times i'm thankful i didn't.
either way, don't ever take anything i say as an insult. it's not intended that way...if it is, you'll know, as i'll probably get myself skuzzinated in the process of trying to insult ya. :rofl
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Sorry for the misunderstanding... there are no leaks that I've been able to see, and none that have been reported. It's just that the model is known for sometimes having these leaks. About 5% of 1999-2001 996s had them. This is a 2002, so the problem may have been sorted out by now, but I'm still understandably concerned and unfortunately can't get enough time with the car to see if it's happening on my own. There may be nothing there at all... But I don't want to pay a lot later for what I can pay a little to find early on.
ah i see, you should be fine then :aok
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Well stated, I have owned both Porsche and Bmw, AKA BMtroubleeew. The Porsche was a reliable car as was the BMW, except the BMW had way too many scheduled expensive maintenance's in comparison.
My father in law OWNS not leases 4 Mercedes of various models, 2 12 cyl and 2 8cyl. None are more then 2 years old. About every 3-4 years he buys a whole new fleet. Purchasing a new Mercedes outright is about the dumbest move a person can make. One day he offered to sell me his 2004 600S. It had 38,000 miles on it and was as all his cars are , black and as close to new as a used car can get. He said he paid around $135,000 for it when he bought it and would let me have it for $25,000. I told him that I could not accept the car so cheap. He then told me he most likely wouldn't get much more for it. My jaw dropped...... in 5 years he lost over $100,000 on that stupid thing and it was mint !
I have to say that I considered purchasing the car but when I found out what it cost to maintain the thing I passed . It also gets about 8 mpg.
That's just insane...
Hell, get a couple Ferraris, Astons or what have you and keep them in mint condition--something unique-- drive them 1-2k a year and keep something more reasonable as an daily driver--make it a bimmer, a benz... whatever you want.
i just don't see the point in owning 4 relatively banal but expensive cars and eating the depreciation on all of them only to get a new fleet in a couple years. Even if you drive like a maniac.
I know he's probably got his reasons, but with that budget, I'd definitely make room for at least 1 or 2 super-exotics and then run my daily driver into the dirt before switching up.
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That's just insane...
Hell, get a couple Ferraris, Astons or what have you and keep them in mint condition--something unique-- drive them 1-2k a year and keep something more reasonable as an daily driver--make it a bimmer, a benz... whatever you want.
i just don't see the point in owning 4 relatively banal but expensive cars and eating the depreciation on all of them only to get a new fleet in a couple years. Even if you drive like a maniac.
I know he's probably got his reasons, but with that budget, I'd definitely make room for at least 1 or 2 super-exotics and then run my daily driver into the dirt before switching up.
if i had to guess, he probably owns some sort of business, and uses them as a massive tax write off.
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Few people have claimed that high-end European cars are low maintenance.
Quite the opposite on this BBS.
Could you provide an example or two?
I travel a lot, and in Europe and I often see what must be 20 year old cars. Apart from the obvious wear on the paintwork they look and sound like they did when they were new, and most of them seem to be owned by young folk, not old geezers.
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Cap, what's your opinion on Nissans? My girlfriend's looking for a new car or SUV, and I keep telling her "Toyota, Honda, Nissan," but then it almost seems like the latter gets left off of many of this forum conversations.
Are they about up to par, or do they not match up?
(I know it's kind of a broad question... She was thinking something along the lines of a Pathfinder/Qx4 or perhaps a G35x if she could find a decent deal).
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Could you provide an example or two?
I travel a lot, and in Europe and I often see what must be 20 year old cars. Apart from the obvious wear on the paintwork they look and sound like they did when they were new, and most of them seem to be owned by young folk, not old geezers.
Most have been Banned on here, but there were weekly threads about how "inferior American cars were to European cars". They always brought out some of the funniest replies ever seen on this BBS.
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Most have been Banned on here, but there were weekly threads about how "inferior American cars were to European cars". They always brought out some of the funniest replies ever seen on this BBS.
Using the word inferior is a bit misguided, I always thought...
They're different, and built for different purposes. Saying one is better than the other is like trying to convince the other guy that your needs are somehow more important, meaningful, or worthy of attention.
The pissing contest is always fun, but in the end, people make their selections based on a specific goal, or, like me, an old poster I had on my wall as a kid.
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That's just insane...
Hell, get a couple Ferraris, Astons or what have you and keep them in mint condition--something unique-- drive them 1-2k a year and keep something more reasonable as an daily driver--make it a bimmer, a benz... whatever you want.
i just don't see the point in owning 4 relatively banal but expensive cars and eating the depreciation on all of them only to get a new fleet in a couple years. Even if you drive like a maniac.
I know he's probably got his reasons, but with that budget, I'd definitely make room for at least 1 or 2 super-exotics and then run my daily driver into the dirt before switching up.
Well if you ever have been in a CL 600 you really cant see needing anymore speed. That car is very very fast and very very quick. He's 87 and really likes his Mercedes, his friend has an Enzo and he said he thinks the car is too sparse, cramped and it's hot in the driver's compartment. He likes all the bells and whistles. He also has 3 homes so the cars are spread out between them. None of the cars he has owned have ever been driven in the dirt not even close, all stay in air conditioned garages and spend little time in the sun or even on the road. It's a total waste of money and is cutting into my inheritance :rofl Considering that an average Ferrari will run you in the 200K region and the Aston's are even more. Both make Mercedes maintenance costs a deal. He had a Rolls once and you wouldn't believe the cost to change the oil $$$. He owned a water treatment facility Cap and sold it about 10 years ago.
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Cap, what's your opinion on Nissans? My girlfriend's looking for a new car or SUV, and I keep telling her "Toyota, Honda, Nissan," but then it almost seems like the latter gets left off of many of this forum conversations.
Are they about up to par, or do they not match up?
(I know it's kind of a broad question... She was thinking something along the lines of a Pathfinder/Qx4 or perhaps a G35x if she could find a decent deal).
I ACTUALLy don't have any problems with nissans. the altimas are very nice cars now, although the early ones were poop.
i have some customers with pathfinders, as far back as 93. they all like em. they're dependable, drive nice, and won't let ya down, as long as you keep up on basic maintenance.
if you're buying it used, try to avoid the "cutthroat" car dealers. they'll screw ya every time. if you're buying from a private party, or even a regular dealer, have it looked over by your regular tech.
i just looked over a hyundai yesterday for a customer.....he liked it, and thought it sounded great(for $4k). it sucked. it had sooooo much wrong with it, i felt it would've been overpriced at 2k.
anyway, good luck, and feel free to ask any questions......i do the best i can to try n help yas.......
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Using the word inferior is a bit misguided, I always thought...
They're different, and built for different purposes. Saying one is better than the other is like trying to convince the other guy that your needs are somehow more important, meaningful, or worthy of attention.
The pissing contest is always fun, but in the end, people make their selections based on a specific goal, or, like me, an old poster I had on my wall as a kid.
very nicely put.
another thing people like to do, is to compare numbers. numbers that are completley meaningless to the average everyday joe. they'll say car A can do X on the skidpad, and car B can only do Y. well, guess what? 99% of the people buying these cars will NEVER see that skidpad rating in their driving. ever. most will never see their cars full capability of acceleration, or braking. heck.......99% of the people on the road have no clue as to what their cars are really capable of. at least not here in the US.
not knowing your cars capabilities, and limitations, i think is about as dangerous as taking a cessna up, and not knowing those capabilities and/or limitations.
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Well if you ever have been in a CL 600 you really cant see needing anymore speed. That car is very very fast and very very quick. He's 87 and really likes his Mercedes, his friend has an Enzo and he said he thinks the car is too sparse, cramped and it's hot in the driver's compartment. He likes all the bells and whistles. He also has 3 homes so the cars are spread out between them. None of the cars he has owned have ever been driven in the dirt not even close, all stay in air conditioned garages and spend little time in the sun or even on the road. It's a total waste of money and is cutting into my inheritance :rofl Considering that an average Ferrari will run you in the 200K region and the Aston's are even more. Both make Mercedes maintenance costs a deal. He had a Rolls once and you wouldn't believe the cost to change the oil $$$. He owned a water treatment facility Cap and sold it about 10 years ago.
so i was close........am i right about the tax write offs? if he has a "good" accountant, i think he can still manage that.
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Well if you ever have been in a CL 600 you really cant see needing anymore speed. That car is very very fast and very very quick. He's 87 and really likes his Mercedes, his friend has an Enzo and he said he thinks the car is too sparse, cramped and it's hot in the driver's compartment. He likes all the bells and whistles. He also has 3 homes so the cars are spread out between them. None of the cars he has owned have ever been driven in the dirt not even close, all stay in air conditioned garages and spend little time in the sun or even on the road. It's a total waste of money and is cutting into my inheritance :rofl Considering that an average Ferrari will run you in the 200K region and the Aston's are even more. Both make Mercedes maintenance costs a deal. He had a Rolls once and you wouldn't believe the cost to change the oil $$$. He owned a water treatment facility Cap and sold it about 10 years ago.
I understand comfort over performance, if you're that old...
That being said, there's a 2 year wait list on most 2 seater ferraris, and the end result is that slightly used but mint condition models often go for way more than the list price.
Perfect example, just look up the 599gtb on cars.com
find a 2008 with 1k miles on it and the price will be pushing $400k--although new they cost around $325 with a good options package.
The Scuderias are even worse, because they're more rare and in higher demand with the true enthusiasts--no rug or sound system to minimize weight.
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I understand comfort over performance, if you're that old...
That being said, there's a 2 year wait list on most 2 seater ferraris, and the end result is that slightly used but mint condition models often go for way more than the list price.
Perfect example, just look up the 599gtb on cars.com
find a 2008 with 1k miles on it and the price will be pushing $400k--although new they cost around $325 with a good options package.
The Scuderias are even worse, because they're more rare and in higher demand with the true enthusiasts--no rug or sound system to minimize weight.
if one were to spend crazy money for a crazy fast car, why in the world would they want something that forgoes comfort for speed when one could have one of these? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1t6S737Cs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NZ9X9A2efA
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if one were to spend crazy money for a crazy fast car, why in the world would they want something that forgoes comfort for speed when one could have one of these? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1t6S737Cs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NZ9X9A2efA
well, and this is coming from somebody whose desire for a superexotic is strictly theoretical as i can nowhere near afford one, there are a couple reasons.
First of all, I hate the way it looks--for me, the ferrari 599, a car whose looks have been criticized by many, is just way more stylish, comfortable, and as fast as I would ever need a car to go and then some.
secondly, I just don't like the idea of a 16 cylinder quad-turbo engine. Don't know why, but it feels like this is the automotive equivalent of owning a .500 SW Mag. Don't get me wrong, a 5.9 liter v 12 is big too, but there's a line that's being crossed that just doesn't sit well with me.
Thirdly, it's like $1.5 million. And even if I had money to burn, this seems excessive. For that much, I could get 5 cars that I've been dying to have since i was a teenager and therefore, 5 different flavors to enjoy instead of just one.
Finally, I'd always err on the side of quick and nimble. A 2800 lb f430, or, if we're talking huge prices, a 2300lb f70 (forthcoming enzo successor that's modeled on the FXX), with a 700 hp engine just seems like more fun than 2 tons being driven by 1001 hp--even if it come equipped with its own automated bartender. It's a foregone conclusion that a 1 ton ferrari will make mincemeat of the bugatti on any track, and that i'll likely never live to drive against one, but it's comforting just to know that it was engineered for sport, not just for picking up overpriced hookers in Washington Street in Miami.
Again, just taste, and again, that good old poster on the wall. Prancing horse has always been part of a dream, and no bugatti will ever usurp that emotional connection.
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Correct me if I am wrong but I believe 1 MILLION Pounds is a wee more than 400k.........Unbelievable car and The Euro Fighter is no slouch either at 67 Million Pounds...... <<<!S!>>>
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Correct me if I am wrong but I believe 1 MILLION Pounds is a wee more than 400k.........Unbelievable car and The Euro Fighter is no slouch either at 67 Million Pounds...... <<<!S!>>>
$400k is how much the ferrari 599gtb costs--if you buy it off the lot, slightly used. Brand new, on backorder, it's about $75k cheaper.
How's that for bassackwards?
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well, and this is coming from somebody whose desire for a superexotic is strictly theoretical as i can nowhere near afford one, there are a couple reasons.
First of all, I hate the way it looks--for me, the ferrari 599, a car whose looks have been criticized by many, is just way more stylish, comfortable, and as fast as I would ever need a car to go and then some.
secondly, I just don't like the idea of a 16 cylinder quad-turbo engine. Don't know why, but it feels like this is the automotive equivalent of owning a .500 SW Mag. Don't get me wrong, a 5.9 liter v 12 is big too, but there's a line that's being crossed that just doesn't sit well with me.
Thirdly, it's like $1.5 million. And even if I had money to burn, this seems excessive. For that much, I could get 5 cars that I've been dying to have since i was a teenager and therefore, 5 different flavors to enjoy instead of just one.
Finally, I'd always err on the side of quick and nimble. A 2800 lb f430, or, if we're talking huge prices, a 2300lb f70 (forthcoming enzo successor that's modeled on the FXX), with a 700 hp engine just seems like more fun than 2 tons being driven by 1001 hp--even if it come equipped with its own automated bartender. It's a foregone conclusion that a 1 ton ferrari will make mincemeat of the bugatti on any track, and that i'll likely never live to drive against one, but it's comforting just to know that it was engineered for sport, not just for picking up overpriced hookers in Washington Street in Miami.
Again, just taste, and again, that good old poster on the wall. Prancing horse has always been part of a dream, and no bugatti will ever usurp that emotional connection.
understood.....i was just going to the extreme. :D
the line you feel........you're 100% right. that kind of power will not be totally reliable if you drove it every day.
me.....for that kinda money......i'd have my home, with a 4k long runway, electric fence around my property, and something fun n fast to fly. :aok
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well, and this is coming from somebody whose desire for a superexotic is strictly theoretical as i can nowhere near afford one, there are a couple reasons.
First of all, I hate the way it looks--for me, the ferrari 599, a car whose looks have been criticized by many, is just way more stylish, comfortable, and as fast as I would ever need a car to go and then some.
secondly, I just don't like the idea of a 16 cylinder quad-turbo engine. Don't know why, but it feels like this is the automotive equivalent of owning a .500 SW Mag. Don't get me wrong, a 5.9 liter v 12 is big too, but there's a line that's being crossed that just doesn't sit well with me.
Thirdly, it's like $1.5 million. And even if I had money to burn, this seems excessive. For that much, I could get 5 cars that I've been dying to have since i was a teenager and therefore, 5 different flavors to enjoy instead of just one.
Finally, I'd always err on the side of quick and nimble. A 2800 lb f430, or, if we're talking huge prices, a 2300lb f70 (forthcoming enzo successor that's modeled on the FXX), with a 700 hp engine just seems like more fun than 2 tons being driven by 1001 hp--even if it come equipped with its own automated bartender. It's a foregone conclusion that a 1 ton ferrari will make mincemeat of the bugatti on any track, and that i'll likely never live to drive against one, but it's comforting just to know that it was engineered for sport, not just for picking up overpriced hookers in Washington Street in Miami.
Again, just taste, and again, that good old poster on the wall. Prancing horse has always been part of a dream, and no bugatti will ever usurp that emotional connection.
Ok, we need a dose of reality for you. The Veyron would without question blow the doors off of a Ferrari (take your pick) on a track. I love Ferrari's and most Exotic Cars just as the next guy, but there is a time when "fanboi-ism" needs to take a backseat. Not to mention the Veyron is Street Legal and the FXX (and the soon to be released F70) aren't.
FXX - 1.5 million Euro + tax to the Veyron's 1.1 Euro makes the Veyron the easy choice.
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Ok, we need a dose of reality for you. The Veyron would without question blow the doors off of a Ferrari (take your pick) on a track. I love Ferrari's and most Exotic Cars just as the next guy, but there is a time when "fanboi-ism" needs to take a backseat. Not to mention the Veyron is Street Legal and the FXX (and the soon to be released F70) aren't.
FXX - 1.5 million Euro + tax to the Veyron's 1.1 Euro makes the Veyron the easy choice.
Ok, maybe I was misunderstood.
The Veyron is faster around the track than any current production street legal Ferrari. The fastest, the 6 year old enzo, was .7 seconds behind the veyron on top gear's track, but that's hardly scientific so we'll just call that anecodotal.
However, if the f70, which is the FXX-derived street-legal Enzo successor, meets its design requirements of a similar power to weight ratio of the FXX (2.9 lb/hp vs the veyron's 3.9), there will be no contest. The Enzo's power to weight ratio of 4 lb/hp is close enough....The 850 hp 2500 lb FXX, however is 7 seconds faster around the Fiorano test track than the Enzo, which is a huge margin for a lap that takes 1:18. So the Veyron is nowhere near a match for it, or the the street-legal successor (if they stick to their goals).
That is what I was referring to.
That being said, I'd still take a Scuderia over the Veyron and the $800,000 difference in cash. That's just practicality--or as practical as one can get considering 2 seater supercars.
We're all fanboys of something. It's the reason guys argue over sports teams. I'm no different.
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We're all fanboys of something. It's the reason guys argue over sports teams. I'm no different.
Blindly saying something "sucks" without knowing the competition is worse than being a Fanboi, it's ignorant. There is a thick line between the two.
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The Veyron would without question blow the doors off of a Ferrari (take your pick) on a track.
:huh veyron has a 'ring time of 7:40, enzo 7:25. even a 430 scud is slightly quicker.
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:huh veyron has a 'ring time of 7:40, enzo 7:25. even a 430 scud is slightly quicker.
Head to head the times are different. That is what HE said. Not a single car on it at a time. Either way, it would be a good, close race (I might have gotten a little carried away, but not much).
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AK,
I happen to know a guy who plays around with porsches alittle.
I asked about the rearmain leaks on 996's and he said ya it's a prob on the early ones!
99/02 so be careful,he said the problem has to do with the trans being torqued in assembly.
This causes some sort of distorion which affects the seal.He said it's not a big deal to fix,well for him anyways, and if a warranty is available be sure to look into it.ie read the fine print for exclusions.
That said,they are great cars,look after it and other than costing alot to buy and own have fun!
:salute
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:huh veyron has a 'ring time of 7:40, enzo 7:25. even a 430 scud is slightly quicker.
The Veyron's ring time is not official.
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neither are the others but its pretty much the only way to compare. some of the TG times dont look right to me, mainly i suspect because they only get a car for a day and have to test whatever the conditions. EVO's bedford times would be a good comparison if they hadnt changed the circuit a year or 2 back :rolleyes:
I'm with Gordon Murray on the Veyron, for me its like Vuiton luggage - its only purpose is to remove money from the pockets of people too rich to know better. For the same money you could buy eg:
Pagani Zonda +
Aston DBS +
Corvette Z06 +
430 Scuderia +
Maserati Quattroporte +
plenty left over for a 4x4, town car and a Ducati :D
... although I'd probably save my pennies a little longer and buy an F1 - the purest supercar with a true racing pedigree :rock
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neither are the others but its pretty much the only way to compare. some of the TG times dont look right to me, mainly i suspect because they only get a car for a day and have to test whatever the conditions. EVO's bedford times would be a good comparison if they hadnt changed the circuit a year or 2 back :rolleyes:
I'm with Gordon Murray on the Veyron, for me its like Vuiton luggage - its only purpose is to remove money from the pockets of people too rich to know better. For the same money you could buy eg:
Pagani Zonda +
Aston DBS +
Corvette Z06 +
430 Scuderia +
Maserati Quattroporte +
plenty left over for a 4x4, town car and a Ducati :D
as i mentioned in an earlier post, these numbers are kinda the equilivent of car porn. they mean nothing to the average driver.
average drivers will NEVER get their cars even close to their potential, regardless of what they drive. that goes for everythign from a geo prism(which i hung right on the rear bumper of an audi a4 rounding some bends, that he thought he needed to brake for, thus letting me pull right up on him) to the veyron, to the lambos. it doesn't matter. 2 cars as close at the one mentioned a few posts up, that's 2 tenths faster on the ring......put em both in real street conditions, and see which one is out front. then switch drivers, and see which one ends up out front.
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Not sure if this is a dupe, but since this thread is filled with car guys, I thought I'd link this cool video of a Lotus and Corvette at Nurburgring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqclLDqmms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqclLDqmms)
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Blindly saying something "sucks" without knowing the competition is worse than being a Fanboi, it's ignorant. There is a thick line between the two.
When did I ever use the word "sucks" in reference to the Veyron?
--since you put it in quotes, I'm assuming you're quoting...
I said that I wouldn't buy it even if I had the money. I don't like the way it looks, and I'm not a big fan of the whole package. To me, it's excessive. I never once claimed that it was an unimpressive piece of machinery, or devoid of merit.
What I did say was that a 1 ton Ferrari would beat it on any track--eluding to the FXX-based f70. Which isn't blind at all, but a fact... RT made my point better than I did when he cited Nurburgring times. The FXX is, mile for mile, about 9% faster than an Enzo. Therefore it stands to reason that a lighter, street-legal derivation would approximate this edge. Period.
There may be many things about which I'm ignorant, but when it comes to cars that I can't afford, I assure you that I have respect enough for just about all of them to read up on the subject
Just don't get me started on Lamborghinis :)
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AK,
I happen to know a guy who plays around with porsches alittle.
I asked about the rearmain leaks on 996's and he said ya it's a prob on the early ones!
99/02 so be careful,he said the problem has to do with the trans being torqued in assembly.
This causes some sort of distorion which affects the seal.He said it's not a big deal to fix,well for him anyways, and if a warranty is available be sure to look into it.ie read the fine print for exclusions.
That said,they are great cars,look after it and other than costing alot to buy and own have fun!
:salute
Thanks for the effort, Morfiend. Really do appreciate it. As I said, if this thing comes together sometime in August, I'll be sure to post the results (pics).
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Thanks for the effort, Morfiend. Really do appreciate it. As I said, if this thing comes together sometime in August, I'll be sure to post the results (pics).
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WANTS TO SEE PICS.
sorry bout caps up there......
don't care the make or model.......i like sleek fast cars.
i really liked the pics ge posted awhile back of his vette with the hooters girls. :D
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<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<WANTS TO SEE PICS.
sorry bout caps up there......
don't care the make or model.......i like sleek fast cars.
i really liked the pics ge posted awhile back of his vette with the hooters girls. :D
Let this hold you over:
(http://fancytuning.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/novitec-tridente-maserati-granturismo-s.jpg)
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oo...and 7 seconds 0-60?????? that's pitiful by todays standards.........for almost anything.
Lol I don't know if you're talking about sports cars but for a heavy family sedan that's an ok figure especially considering it gets almost the same mpg as a prius.
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Lol I don't know if you're talking about sports cars but for a heavy family sedan that's an ok figure especially considering it gets almost the same mpg as a prius.
i'm not sure....i'd have to time it.....but i think my 85 E-350 does 0-60 faster than that. granted, it gets REALLY bad mileage, but still........i think i saw a kid on a moped go by here accelerating faster than that. :x
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neither are the others but its pretty much the only way to compare.
Yes they are.
I'm with Gordon Murray on the Veyron, for me its like Vuiton luggage - its only purpose is to remove money from the pockets of people too rich to know better. For the same money you could buy eg:
Pagani Zonda +
Aston DBS +
Corvette Z06 +
430 Scuderia +
Maserati Quattroporte +
plenty left over for a 4x4, town car and a Ducati :D
And none of those can hold a candle to the Veyron in terms of luxury, technology, exclusivity (only 300 will be made) and hypercar'ness. The Bugatti Batobile costs VW about $8 million per car; considering that, I think the $1.4 million price tag is quite generous. Parked next to a Veyron no one will notice any of those other cars. Well, maybe the Zonda, it's after all a $350,000 hypercar.
(http://hpwr.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/bugatti-veyron-study-2-red-front-angle-1600x1200.jpg)
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I'll see your Veyron and raise you a $1.2 million Zonda R--of which single, or low double-digits will ever be built
(http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/02/Pagani_Zonda_R.jpg)
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The Zonda R is a track car that will blast the Veyron on any track, but you can't pick up serious women with it. Nor do you look very dignified driving it unless you're a young playboy. The Veyron is to hypercars what the Maybach is to luxury limos: In a class of its own.
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The Zonda R is a track car that will blast the Veyron on any track, but you can't pick up serious women with it. Nor do you look very dignified driving it unless you're a young playboy. The Veyron is to hypercars what the Maybach is to luxury limos: In a class of its own.
Ok, now this is a real debate...
You'll do fine in a Veyron, but just as the Maybach has the Rolls Royce Phantom with which to contend, I believe that if the goal is trolling high-end night spots, there are alternatives...
For those serious women who prefer a front engine design:
(http://photocarsonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/aston_martin_one-77_1.jpg)
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That's perfect if your young or middle-aged and fit. However, how will you look in it if your bald, fat and wrinkled, like most people who can afford these cars? That's the thing about the Veyron: It looks dignified, exciting yet discrete, extremely luxurious and comfortable, yet fast and nimble enough to fit in the super/hyper car category. The Veyron is perfect for someone who lives in a chateau, takes the Maybach to work, and the Veyron to dinner ... with the Queen of England or someone just as prestigious.
(http://blog.purentonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/bugatti-veyron-fbg.jpg)
There are many cars that can outperform the Veyron, but that's not really the point with the Veyron.
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Anybody here have any experience with these cars?
Specifically, how to spot oil seal leakage without waiting for a puddle to collect on the garage floor?
Did not read the whole thread but I am assuming that you are thinking of purchasing one and don't have a week to spend in the seller's garage. With that in mind, I am actually going to try and talk you out of a 996...
As with any P-car, the first rule you must follow is to get a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection). For between $200 and $300, you can avoid making a far costlier mistake. I would not go to a dealership for this unless you have no alternative. There are specialty Porsche/German speed shops in most major cities who know the cars far, far better than parts-changers at dealerships.
This sort of inspection will also give you a relatively clear answer to your initial question about oil seepage.
That said, oil seepage, in many forms, plagues the 3.4L and 3.6L normally aspirated engines installed into Boxsters (986 & 987), 996's and early 997's. The 3.6L engine in the Turbo is different entirely is not affected.
The primary culprit of oil seepage is the RMS (Rear Main Seal). This seal has a tendency to... well... its just not well designed. To replace the seal, the engine needs to come out. This is slightly more expensive than an oil change. Sarcasm there.
Problem number two with the 3.4L and 3.6L N/A motors is the failure of the IMS (Intermediate Shaft). Again, not well designed. The details surrounding exactly *why* the IMS fails are still being worked out since the 996 is still a relatively new car and Porsche is silent on the failure rate. It is thought, currently, that oil collecting around the IMS and the bell-housing might be a sign of impending failure.
Either way, an IMS failure is catastrophic. Your engine is done. While thats bad enough, the design of the engine does not really allow it to be rebuilt. It must be replaced.
The trend here, with respect to both of the above captioned issues, as examples, and the car as a whole (apologies to 996 owners), is that Porsche built their first disposable 911. Early examples from 40+ years ago are still driving. 996's, in 40 years, will all be in junk yards.
The build quality and design philosophy reflects Porsche's financial situation at the time. Cars like the Boxster, Cayenne and, unfortunately, the 996, were designed to make money and keep the company independent. While this is obviously preferable to say, Mercedes Benz scooping them up, the cars built during this period reflect that philosophy.
Its a shame, really, because the 996 is a great car to drive. Very capable, quick enough, a boatload of fun and more advanced than previous versions of the 911. Unfortunately, cost aside, one of the biggest reasons that say, Ferrari owners end up defecting to Porsche, was lost. That reason was absolute reliability.
By and large, you can drive the air cooled cars forever so long as they are well maintained. It is not uncommon to see 3.0L's or 3.2L's from the late 70's through the 80's with 200,000, 300,000 and, in some cases, even 400,000 miles - and no engine work. The same can not be said of the newer cars and the failure's don't seem to follow any methodology. Some fail at 80,000 miles and some fail at 5,000 miles.
Point is, while the 996 may seem like a really attractive buy right now - and it is a lot of car for the money - there is a reason it is so cheap, second-hand, and the older cars actually fetch higher prices.
Now, on to those older cars... if you have never driven either of the previous two models, the 993 (1995-1998 in US) or the 964 (1989-1994 in US), you really owe it to yourself to try them.
In my not so humble opinion, the 993 is pretty much the best automobile the company ever made. Not an assembly line job, the car feels, especially in comparison to the rattle trap 996, like is was carved out of a solid block of granite. They are arguably the last of the stereotypical "German engineering" cars. Built like a bank vault and will go forever no matter how you abuse them.
The 993 is not without its issues. The 96-98 cars with OBD-II emissions have an issue with clogged SAI (Secondary Air Injection) ports. You can read more on it independent of this discussion, but the emissions farce that went into effect that year required a CEL (check engine light) to fire if the ports were clogged. The ports do substantially nothing. They are an emissions "gadget" which reduces emissions for about 15 seconds after start up. There are ways around the CEL, but its a pain. You can clean the SAI ports but it is difficult. Ultimately, like all the air cooled cars, you will need a top end rebuild anyway, at which point you can deal with the SAI and the weak valve guides which Porsche has been installing in 911 engines since the car was introduced. Why they didnt start using a harder metal in the 60's is beyond me...
Regardless, now that Im off on a tangent, try one of the older, air cooled cars. I prefer them in every aspect to their water-cooled brethren. They are more fun to drive, they have all the smells, sights and sounds you expect and, if you take care of them, they will provide you with years of trouble free ownership.
Besides, they just dont make hips like this anymore... The rest of ya can keep your Italian trash. ;)
(http://www.qsm.com.au/wallpaper/993TurboS_0323_500.jpg)
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i'm not sure....i'd have to time it.....but i think my 85 E-350 does 0-60 faster than that. granted, it gets REALLY bad mileage, but still........i think i saw a kid on a moped go by here accelerating faster than that. :x
There are many 'GTI' european models that are slower than that. I'm fairly certain that 90% of the cars circulating around here are slower than that.
In US it might be different because you're used to oversized engines with the cheap gas.
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Saur,
Thanks for the lengthy response. As soon as you said you were gonna try to talk me out of it, I knew you were going to discuss the 993, and I've thought about it myself.
The issue, which i guess is a symptom of the quality and longevity, is that they're harder to find and more expensive. Owners, I'm assuming just hold on to them for much longer. The best ones I've been able to find in my price range have around 60-70k miles on them.
They're way better looking than the 996, that's indisputable.
I'm no rush, however. Maybe I'll get lucky in the coming weeks.
Just last friday I saw a gray turbo pull up next to me at a light and I stared at it so long i think the owner started to get a bit creeped out. It looked perfect, and had that shape that makes the newer ones look like hybrids.
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There are many 'GTI' european models that are slower than that. I'm fairly certain that 90% of the cars circulating around here are slower than that.
In US it might be different because you're used to oversized engines with the cheap gas.
a 2.0L is oversized? or a 1.6? :D
actually, what pisses me off a LOT, is that it seems europe has clean cars that run forever on a gallon of gas, or deisel, and perform nicely.......and we SHOULD have that here, but we don't.........
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Whaddaya mean?
(http://thereifixedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tifi-airconditioning.jpg)
DIY FTW!
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When did I ever use the word "sucks" in reference to the Veyron?
--since you put it in quotes, I'm assuming you're quoting...
I said that I wouldn't buy it even if I had the money. I don't like the way it looks, and I'm not a big fan of the whole package. To me, it's excessive. I never once claimed that it was an unimpressive piece of machinery, or devoid of merit.
What I did say was that a 1 ton Ferrari would beat it on any track--eluding to the FXX-based f70. Which isn't blind at all, but a fact... RT made my point better than I did when he cited Nurburgring times. The FXX is, mile for mile, about 9% faster than an Enzo. Therefore it stands to reason that a lighter, street-legal derivation would approximate this edge. Period.
There may be many things about which I'm ignorant, but when it comes to cars that I can't afford, I assure you that I have respect enough for just about all of them to read up on the subject
Just don't get me started on Lamborghinis :)
Again, the Ferrari's you mentioned except the Scud are trailer queens. "Excessive" is a car more expensive than a faster car, that you could DRIVE to the track and give the "Trailer Queen" fits. You know what you implied and I called you on it. No offense was intended, but it is incorrect to state in the first place.
As Die Hard pointed out, the Veyron's "time" is "Unofficial". Do with that fact, what you wish. Aside from the fact that the Veyron still maintains a 4.9:1hp Power to Weight ratio. I wouldn't look at the Ferrari's as they aren't much better considering the "1 ton extra weight". :eek:
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Saur--Since you seem pretty passionate about this... Tell me what you think of this one:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true# (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true#)
I know there isn't much to go on, I'm only asking you to evaluate it from the information available, and assuming that there are no deadly defects.
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Yes they are.
no they are not - they were all set by motoring mags in private or test sessions. all road car 'ring times are "unofficial". the only times which could be considered "official" are those taken during FIA certified race or qualifying, or perhaps if Guinness were to time them (pretty sure they dont). the constant moaning about skyline times by other manufacturers is a case in point, and pretty meaningless when none of the cars have to go through scrutineering by FIA officials.
And none of those can hold a candle to the Veyron in terms of luxury, technology, exclusivity (only 300 will be made) and hypercar'ness.
I'd argue that the zonda beats the veyron on all your points - bespoke interiors, lightweight technology, less than 100 produced and brave, extravagant styling (in contrast to the typical, rather bland VAG approach) created by a small team of craftsmen (compared to a bunch of corporate departments.)
whether either is a dream car however is completely subjective, you can guess which would be in my dream garage :)
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Official means that the test was conducted by the manufacturer. Porsche, BMW, Pagani, Nissan, GM, Lamborghini and other manufacturers have set official times for some of their cars. The Veyron is not one of them. I'm quite sure the Veyron can be driven faster around the ring by a Lamborghini test driver than by someone from Wheels' magazine.
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Official means that the test was conducted by the manufacturer. Porsche, BMW, Pagani, Nissan, GM, Lamborghini and other manufacturers have set official times for some of their cars. The Veyron is not one of them. I'm quite sure the Veyron can be driven faster around the ring by a Lamborghini test driver than by someone from Wheels' magazine.
ya know what really sucks?
bugastti has let the top gear 3 stooges beat the snot out of their cars. but they STILL haven't let the stig take it on their track to compete with the others.
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They finally got to do it last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UMxUAV1aq4
A point missed by them: The Veyron was faster around the Top Gear track than everything older than 2008. Faster than the Enzo. Faster than the original Zonda. Faster than the Carrera GT. So if Top Gear had tested it in 2005 when the Veyron debuted it would have stayed at the top of their board for nearly four years. The few cars that are faster around the track are stripped out track versions with little or no creature comforts, and they barely beat the two ton luxury Veyron. That's pretty amazing.
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They finally got to do it last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UMxUAV1aq4
A point missed by them: The Veyron was faster around the Top Gear track than everything older than 2008. Faster than the Enzo. Faster than the original Zonda. Faster than the Carrera GT. So if Top Gear had tested it in 2005 when the Veyron debuted it would have stayed at the top of their board for nearly four years. The few cars that are faster around the track are stripped out track versions with little or no creature comforts, and they barely beat the two ton luxury Veyron. That's pretty amazing.
funny thing.....they take that kit car looking pos(the zonda) through the corners with the back end kicking out, and it's "agile". they take a car that costs a fraction of that car through the corners, kicking the back end out, and it has pre-historic suspension with a "whacking girder" in the back for a differential.......
as for the zonda beating the veyron there........those numbers are sooooo close, it would come down to the driver....and if they ran them side by side from a standing start, the zonda would never catch up.
and finally......thaks for putting that link up
11 i hadn't seen that until now!!!!
<<S>>
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You're welcome. <S>
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Well .. Cap .. and others:
If you ever want to find a decent C-5 (or C-6, etc) .. the corvette forum for sale section always has some killer machines to peruse.
It's divided by type .. so you gotta look in C-5 for sale/wanted if yer lookin for a C-5 :)
http://www.corvetteforum.com/
..along with all you ever wanted to know about any problems, how-to fixes, where to go or *not* go, etc :)
-Frank aka GE
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Saur--Since you seem pretty passionate about this... Tell me what you think of this one:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true# (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true#)
I know there isn't much to go on, I'm only asking you to evaluate it from the information available, and assuming that there are no deadly defects.
Dunno what your budget is, but this is a good deal IMO (considering it's a Cabriolet):
http://www.huntingridgemotors.com/cars.php?cat=porsche&carid=2300&subcat= (http://www.huntingridgemotors.com/cars.php?cat=porsche&carid=2300&subcat=)
They always have "cars coming in weekly".
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<--- proud owner of a BMW Z3 Roadster Convertable. In 2000 it was my time for a toy. I wanted a two seat roadster.
I looked at Corvettes ( had experience with them previously good auto) Looked at a Spyder and drove one. Went across
the street to look at BMWs. They had about 10 to 12 Z3s on the lot. Most with an automatic transmission (which makes no
sense to me in that kind of an automobile). I fell in love with a steel grey metallic convertible with a 5 speed manual at first
sight. After I drove it it became a no brainer. BMW just drives great. Cornering is spectacular. Breaking and acceleration
are way above. You can drive it well enough that you can feel G Forces while going thru turns at speeds that other cars could
not do. One turn I did (on test drive I actually took the BMW to a road I am familiar with...the Saleman however looked blue)
the turn is a hard left corner , uphill....with downhill after completing the turn. I managed positive and negative G forces on
completing that turn. (The Saleman managed to almost bail out lol). When I returned to the lot, upon getting out of the BMW
I told the Salesman...I want it. Drove it from the lot half an hour later. You actually become one with the machine in a BMW.
I still have it...not driven in winter and covered in garage. I just turned 18K on the odometer. I will own it till I die! :aok
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<--- proud owner of a BMW Z3 Roadster Convertable. In 2000 it was my time for a toy. I wanted a two seat roadster.
I looked at Corvettes ( had experience with them previously good auto) Looked at a Spyder and drove one. Went across
the street to look at BMWs. They had about 10 to 12 Z3s on the lot. Most with an automatic transmission (which makes no
sense to me in that kind of an automobile). I fell in love with a steel grey metallic convertible with a 5 speed manual at first
sight. After I drove it it became a no brainer. BMW just drives great. Cornering is spectacular. Breaking and acceleration
are way above. You can drive it well enough that you can feel G Forces while going thru turns at speeds that other cars could
not do. One turn I did (on test drive I actually took the BMW to a road I am familiar with...the Saleman however looked blue)
the turn is a hard left corner , uphill....with downhill after completing the turn. I managed positive and negative G forces on
completing that turn. (The Saleman managed to almost bail out lol). When I returned to the lot, upon getting out of the BMW
I told the Salesman...I want it. Drove it from the lot half an hour later. You actually become one with the machine in a BMW.
I still have it...not driven in winter and covered in garage. I just turned 18K on the odometer. I will own it till I die! :aok
I was working for BMW when Z4 came out. Try it, i bet you will immediately sell your Z3.
P.S. How do you like those water leaks?:)
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KGB no leaks whatsoever. Since I drive it only during good weather on BMWs recommendation I have Oil changed every other year.
I might get 3K - 4K miles between oil changes. I take it in every other year for the Oil Change and an inspection. No leaks!
As to the Z4.......I don't like the appearance of the Z4......I like the looks of the Z3 better. The Z3 looks like it is moving when
parked...the Z4 doesn't give me that impression. To each his own.
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BMW's are always nice to drive. Had a 740i back in the 1990's, but I just couldn't stand the look of the new one. Got an Audi A8 4.2 V8 quattro instead. Great car too. Discrete and powerful.
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KGB no leaks whatsoever. Since I drive it only during good weather on BMWs recommendation I have Oil changed every other year.
I might get 3K - 4K miles between oil changes. I take it in every other year for the Oil Change and an inspection. No leaks!
As to the Z4.......I don't like the appearance of the Z4......I like the looks of the Z3 better. The Z3 looks like it is moving when
parked...the Z4 doesn't give me that impression. To each his own.
Wow.Every Z3 customer i had was complaining about soft top water leaks and wind noise. Also there was a rear sway bar recall,i wonder if you had done.
Did you know,they used rear suspension from e30? I never understood why, it was very outdated.
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BMW's are always nice to drive. Had a 740i back in the 1990's, but I just couldn't stand the look of the new one. Got an Audi A8 4.2 V8 quattro instead. Great car too. Discrete and powerful.
I remember replacing turbo's couple times on A6 2.7, i think i cryed both times:)
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I'l still take a f40 scud in exchange....
and the rest in cash.
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Saur--Since you seem pretty passionate about this... Tell me what you think of this one:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true# (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_41_|B-35000|H-|D-_386_|N-N|R-75|I-1%2c7|P-PRICE+descending|Q-descending|X-popular|Z-20852&aff=national&paId=295454344&recnum=25&leadExists=true#)
I know there isn't much to go on, I'm only asking you to evaluate it from the information available, and assuming that there are no deadly defects.
Now thats a nice 911 :aok
Everything Saur mentions is fact! the air cooled 911 are much better,my friend doesnt see them nearly as often as the newer ones.In fact he had a Ruff in the shop when I called so I had alittle look see.I couldnt hang around for the "test drive" though.... :o
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I'm no rush, however. Maybe I'll get lucky in the coming weeks.
Finding the right car is half the fun. Take your time, decide what you want and wait for it. I would also expand my search radius to nationwide if you havent already.
Saur--Since you seem pretty passionate about this... Tell me what you think of this one:
I know there isn't much to go on, I'm only asking you to evaluate it from the information available, and assuming that there are no deadly defects.
At face value, the car appears clean. The seller says all the right things. Service records, tools, etc, etc. Notice he mentions that the 915 shifts smooth as silk. The 3.2L cars from 84 to 86 had the same 915 transmission found in the previous generation 3.0L cars (and no matter what anyone tells you, the "SC" in 911SC is not an abbreviation for anything. ;) ).
The 915 is a pretty bad transmission... theres not really any getting around that. In 1987, Porsche started installing the G-50, which was a far and away better product. Could handle *much* more power (they eventually threw it in the 930 in 1989) and shifted better by a mile.
Ive forgotten who wrote it, but I remember reading an article on the older cars years back and the author described the experience of shifting the 915 as "Thrashing about with a wooden spoon in a bag of rocks." He was kind.
If you go for a 3.2L, go for one of the G50 cars. I had an 88 years ago and the transmission was the primary reason I justified the increase to my then existing budget.
They are fun cars. No power steering, power brakes are a joke... its a "real" 911, but the premium that the owners are currently asking is baffling to me.
Back to the car specifically, as stated, full service records is a valuable asset. The color combination is desirable. The options list is extensive and there are some rare ones - like the locking diff. As stated in the ad, the front valence is not original (nor properly fitted), nor are the wheels, steering wheel, etc, etc. I had Borla exhaust on my 3.2L - sounded amazing. Make sure that the heat exchangers are still in tact when examining the exhaust. Autothority makes pretty good software. I would ultimately change it out for a Steve Wong chip, though (Google). Cloth/leather seats indicate that the car was probably a European delivery.
Overall, it looks like a good candidate.
I was working for BMW when Z4 came out. Try it, i bet you will immediately sell your Z3.
Agree. Try it out, Haj. While it may not look the part compared to the Z3, the Z4 is a great car. Nearly bought an 06 M Coupe, myself. Huge fun.
(PS: Check your subframe) ;)
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Oh, and as a caveat, if you havent found them yet, here are two BBS's that will provide you with weeks of reading:
For the older cars (pre-964) go to forums.pelicanparts.com (http://forums.pelicanparts.com)
For 964's, 993's and the water pumpers, go to www.rennlist.com (http://www.rennlist.com)
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thanks again guys.