Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on September 29, 2009, 05:57:57 PM
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Alright, well, here is the backstory:
My English teacher was trying to show a video one day of something or other (I wasn't paying attention) but the site it was on had recently been added to the list blocked by proxy. After a lovely discussion on it, I told him I am sure I could find a way on the internet to get past the proxy (He is not the only teacher to get screwed by the proxy blocking legitimate educational material). So he bet me a "floating A", (I could pick one assignment excluding a test and get an automatic A on it) or a floating F that I wouldn't be able to find a way past the proxy. So, after scouring the internet and getting stopped just before any answer by the proxy, I come to you all. Anyone know a way past a proxy?
Also, slipping past proxies isn't illegal, is it?
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Alright, well, here is the backstory:
My English teacher was trying to show a video one day of something or other (I wasn't paying attention) but the site it was on had recently been added to the list blocked by proxy. After a lovely discussion on it, I told him I am sure I could find a way on the internet to get past the proxy (He is not the only teacher to get screwed by the proxy blocking legitimate educational material). So he bet me a "floating A", (I could pick one assignment excluding a test and get an automatic A on it) or a floating F that I wouldn't be able to find a way past the proxy. So, after scouring the internet and getting stopped just before any answer by the proxy, I come to you all. Anyone know a way past a proxy?
Also, slipping past proxies isn't illegal, is it?
Depends on their firewall.
A decent firewall will stop proxies, anonymizers, and tunnellers. Usually going through each of these gets the IT peoples attention and they'll come after you with a big stick.
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Just blame your teacher.
My friend hacked into the Howard County Community College proxie and server.
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I know how but I think it would be funny for you to get the floating "F" so I'm not going to share how. Hopefully this will teach you the valuable lesson of never volunteer to resolve a problem you don't have the solution to before hand.
ack-ack
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I know how but I think it would be funny for you to get the floating "F" so I'm not going to share how.
ack-ack
:D
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Ive got it baaaaaaaad SOOOOOOOOOOOO baaaaaaaaaad, Im hot for teacher!
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I know how but I think it would be funny for you to get the floating "F" so I'm not going to share how. Hopefully this will teach you the valuable lesson of never volunteer to resolve a problem you don't have the solution to before hand.
ack-ack
My first thought.
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Alright, well, here is the backstory:
My English teacher was trying to show a video one day of something or other (I wasn't paying attention) but the site it was on had recently been added to the list blocked by proxy. After a lovely discussion on it, I told him I am sure I could find a way on the internet to get past the proxy (He is not the only teacher to get screwed by the proxy blocking legitimate educational material). So he bet me a "floating A", (I could pick one assignment excluding a test and get an automatic A on it) or a floating F that I wouldn't be able to find a way past the proxy. So, after scouring the internet and getting stopped just before any answer by the proxy, I come to you all. Anyone know a way past a proxy?
Also, slipping past proxies isn't illegal, is it?
Google on how to. Hell, youtube it. I'm sure they've got a way to show you how to.
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What, exactly, was the bet?
If it's "I can find on the internet instructions to get past a proxy, " pick a site, any site, which claims to do so.
That's all you agreed to do. You didn't agree to actually *get past* the firewall, as that will clearly get you into trouble.
Of course, if you *did* actually agree to get past the proxy, you're screwed either way; an F in whatever or the systems heavies coming down on you with their sticks.
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That's a really dumb thing to bet. Not only do you display poor judgement but you're going to post on a public board asking for help to do something you're not supposed to do? I'll be amazed if you survive two semesters at any military academy. Amazed.
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download the vid onto a usb flash drive at home, bring it in.
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You lost and you should have to pay up. Simple deal and no solution needed. You should just pay up, imo.
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If your school is using a properly set up Citrix, I have got nothing.
If not, you can ping the site from the command line and then use the IP Address that is returned to go to the site. I would use this method to get past the firewalls in middle school, but now in high school, it has become too easy. We open up the Citrix Virtual Desktop on our school computers and the firewall disappears. Facebook, YouTube, and Gmail become available.
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pass
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Just for not coming to me with your computer issues, I'ma let you float on this one too. :D It's sad that you don't see the obvious answer, too.
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At my high school they dont even let you have anything on your desktop. :furious
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Here's a site to try...
http://slip.4.pl/
There's always proxy sites to try, or you could beam it, or you could try the good ol' fashioned IP address (in command panel, ping website, ie ping www.flyaceshigh.com, get the IP address and put it in manually). Many, many MANY ways to do it, most though, odds are, are blocked. ;) As a school tech for our school district though, we have a program which allows us to see everything you're doing, and even take control of your computer remotly, so, as many said, take the floating F, or take the floating A and risk big sticks and the boot. ;)
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There are many ways past a proxy, but that depends on how well the proxy and firewall are configured. If they allow other protocols out like IM, FTP, SSH or whatever, you can set up a proxy of your own on one of those ports. If that avenue is closed, you can setup a web server to proxy connections for you. You'll need a computer connected to the Internet that you can install some software on. And you want a packet logger so you can scan it to see what they let out past the school's firewall.
And slipping past proxies isn't illegal, but it may violate an acceptable use policy.
If you really want to blow his mind, while it isn't quite interactive, if he can send email, you could set up a mail server, email a URL to it, have an script pull down the page, zip it up and send it back. Open up the attachment and TA-DA! One blocked web page.
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I'm honestly not worried about a big stick coming after me. That big stick doesn't exist here, lol, as this same teacher has gotten through the proxy before with the help of a student, but the firewall has been upgraded over the summer as the rest of the school got renovated. I'll give all of these methods a 'go', if anyone really does come down on me, I am doing this on the request of a department head for educational purposes. The teacher is a good guy, in fact, the floating A/ floating F are meaningless, as the way he grades, a single A or a single F with not make or break my grade, and again, he is a nice guy, so he will probably put the F on a meaningless assignment so it doesn't really hurt me. This isn't so much a bet for gain as a matter of boredom/curiosity.
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That's a really dumb thing to bet. Not only do you display poor judgement but you're going to post on a public board asking for help to do something you're not supposed to do? I'll be amazed if you survive two semesters at any military academy. Amazed.
+1
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How come none of you have any thing to say about the TEACHER making the bet....?
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How come none of you have any thing to say about the TEACHER making the bet....?
Because, being a tech student, I know what a pain in the everything networking security is on non-techie teachers.
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Couple of ways to do it...
One way is to set up an anonymizing web proxy on your home computer, then browse to your home computer from school. That way your school computer only connects to your home computer, while your home computer goes to the forbidden sites and simply passes the info back to you along the permitted connection.
There are other anonymizing proxy servers out there, but many commercially available proxy servers like the one your school is using will automatically block known third party proxy servers. That's why using one on your home computer has a better chance of success.
There are risks of course... If you don't have your home computer secured well enough and install a proxy server, you might end up having your home computer attacked and taken over by hackers. So you'd get an A at the cost of your home computer and any other computers set up at home. That would sort of suck eh?
Another way that is more secure is to set up a secure peer to peer tunnel, again using an "allowed" port through your school proxy, to a computer somewhere on the internet (you could use your home computer). This would essentially be a VPN hookup from your school computer to your home. You pretty much log in to your home computer from school, and from then on it's the same as if you were using your home computer. Two problems with this... First, you might need to install some software on the school computer and that is usually a huge no-no (punishable by at the very least loss of computer privledges, possibly suspension, possibly even criminal charges). Second, whoever set up the proxy might be really talented and may have set it up to detect VPN and other tunneling efforts.
If you don't know what "tunneling" is, you lack some of the basic knowledge you need to pull off what you said you can do. In that case, you need to give up or try harder. Meaning you need to actually learn the nuts and bolts of networking, all of which you can easily do from home using freely available textbooks and how-to documents. But you'll need to put some effort into it.
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And if you doubt I know what I'm talking about, the first thing I ever did when I graduated from the USAF academy was set up an IP tunnel through telnet from my apartment to the comp sci computer lab on base. From that lab, I had a direct line to both a very high speed internet backbone serving the school, and I was also inside the NIPR net (military side of the internet). What I did wasn't a big deal back then (my teachers helped out by giving me the phone number to the dial-in modem and the IP addresses of the firewalls I needed to pass through) but doing the same thing now would probably result in me being fined a year's pay, reduction in rank, and jail time.
Been there, done that, gave it up when non-hostile hacking of a cooperative/friendly network became a felony.
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And if you doubt I know what I'm talking about, the first thing I ever did when I graduated from the USAF academy was set up an IP tunnel through telnet from my apartment to the comp sci computer lab on base. From that lab, I had a direct line to both a very high speed internet backbone serving the school, and I was also inside the NIPR net (military side of the internet). What I did wasn't a big deal back then (my teachers helped out by giving me the phone number to the dial-in modem and the IP addresses of the firewalls I needed to pass through) but doing the same thing now would probably result in me being fined a year's pay, reduction in rank, and jail time.
Been there, done that, gave it up when non-hostile hacking of a cooperative/friendly network became a felony.
ROFL. Actually, at my school, I could not imagine who would take offense to any friendly action. I got the WiFi password from a teacher, access to the printer network from my teachers... so far as I have seen everyone at the school hates the way the network has been set up and they are all trying to find ways around stuff. The moaning really hit high-gear when Obama's address to students was only posted on Youtube, which no schools can access...
Well, I get what you said in the post, and while I don't mind risking my desktop (I never use it since my new laptop outperforms it) I dont want to risk any other computers in my house being hit. But I will try to find some exact step-by-step info to give to him so he can risk his own gear, lol.
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How come none of you have any thing to say about the TEACHER making the bet....?
I did think about it, the fact that you could use that against him if forced to. Hardly a profesional thing to do. But then i thought serenity should just take the F so karma does not owe him one.
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Just blame your teacher.
My friend hacked into the Howard County Community College proxie and server.
:rofl :rofl We did the same thing at Carroll :rofl :rofl
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ROFL. Actually, at my school, I could not imagine who would take offense to any friendly action. I got the WiFi password from a teacher, access to the printer network from my teachers..
That's why we don't give our teachers the wifi password... or the deepfreeze password... or pretty much any password at all, cause then the word gets out then we have to go and reconfigure every computer in the district (about 2500 now), which, for a small tech group (about 20-30 techs, closer to 20), is a real pain in the butt...
Anywho, I suggest the tunneling method, tough to block, possible, but tough, you could try using the remote access option as well. ;)
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I say break through and give a big middle finger to the IT. :t
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And if you doubt I know what I'm talking about, the first thing I ever did when I graduated from the USAF academy was set up an IP tunnel through telnet from my apartment to the comp sci computer lab on base. From that lab, I had a direct line to both a very high speed internet backbone serving the school, and I was also inside the NIPR net (military side of the internet). What I did wasn't a big deal back then (my teachers helped out by giving me the phone number to the dial-in modem and the IP addresses of the firewalls I needed to pass through) but doing the same thing now would probably result in me being fined a year's pay, reduction in rank, and jail time.
Been there, done that, gave it up when non-hostile hacking of a cooperative/friendly network became a felony.
Meh, the USAF use crap firewalls then. There is so much fail in this thread, every single method mentioned I can detect and prevent with a <$1000 firewall. Try em, watch your internet access at work/school disappear.
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Meh, the USAF use crap firewalls then. There is so much fail in this thread, every single method mentioned I can detect and prevent with a <$1000 firewall. Try em, watch your internet access at work/school disappear.
It will just give the teachers another bone to pick with whoever set up the network. Having been a teachers aide one year, I got to see the fun the teachers go through trying to bring in interactive, modern methods of teaching but having to work around all of these brick walls set in place with little recourse... now the furloughs hit... not a fun time to be a teacher :(
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Just blame your teacher.
My friend hacked into the Howard County Community College proxie and server.
No wonder my grades fell sharply !!!
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Meh, the USAF use crap firewalls then. There is so much fail in this thread, every single method mentioned I can detect and prevent with a <$1000 firewall. Try em, watch your internet access at work/school disappear.
Remember, what eagl was talking about was the USAF firewalls from around WarGames' era (Or so I am guessing due to his mentioning of non-hostile hacking of a friendly network). Also, I bet you cannot beat this method: Buy a internet card from your cell phone provider and use their network, unless the teacher workstations are merely clients and have only the bare necessities installed on them, like our school's computers do. Make sure you unplug the teacher's computer from the network first though. Maybe get a pool going to pay for the card and the plan?
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It will just give the teachers another bone to pick with whoever set up the network. Having been a teachers aide one year, I got to see the fun the teachers go through trying to bring in interactive, modern methods of teaching but having to work around all of these brick walls set in place with little recourse... now the furloughs hit... not a fun time to be a teacher :(
Bollocks, one site I manage has around 400 teachers who teach ~20000 remote students, they have no issues with both providing these tools and controlling the objectionable content people have access too.
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Bollocks, one site I manage has around 400 teachers who teach ~20000 remote students, they have no issues with both providing these tools and controlling the objectionable content people have access too.
Yeah, that's not a Hawaii Public School buddy. BIG difference... :rolleyes:
Also, I bet you cannot beat this method: Buy a internet card from your cell phone provider and use their network, unless the teacher workstations are merely clients and have only the bare necessities installed on them, like our school's computers do. Make sure you unplug the teacher's computer from the network first though. Maybe get a pool going to pay for the card and the plan?
You know? That is actually a ridiculously good idea! I will bring that up with him in school tomorrow!
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I have never liked IT people. It's easy to know just as much as them and yet they have this whole "I am the gatekeeper!" mentality. Any defense can be broken and with enough time and research it can be done undetected. JFGI, loads of sources to work from.
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Alright, well, here is the backstory:
My English teacher was trying to show a video one day of something or other (I wasn't paying attention) but the site it was on had recently been added to the list blocked by proxy. After a lovely discussion on it, I told him I am sure I could find a way on the internet to get past the proxy (He is not the only teacher to get screwed by the proxy blocking legitimate educational material). So he bet me a "floating A", (I could pick one assignment excluding a test and get an automatic A on it) or a floating F that I wouldn't be able to find a way past the proxy. So, after scouring the internet and getting stopped just before any answer by the proxy, I come to you all. Anyone know a way past a proxy?
Also, slipping past proxies isn't illegal, is it?
Do a cost-benefit analysis on the benefit of the floating A versus the effort to solve your little proxy bypass issue compared to the negative impact of the floating F versus the cost to compensate for it with other work. Rationalize your objective downward or upward such that the alternative you prefer comes out on top. If the preferred alternative doesn't require the minimum effort, then your prospects for career success are very dim. Buy a quart of vodka and a straight razor on your way home.
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Yeah, that's not a Hawaii Public School buddy. BIG difference... :rolleyes:
No it's far worse, I know this because we've also done a dozen or more large private and public schools. But hey you're an expert on the subject right serenity ;)
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I have never liked IT people. It's easy to know just as much as them and yet they have this whole "I am the gatekeeper!" mentality. Any defense can be broken and with enough time and research it can be done undetected. JFGI, loads of sources to work from.
The internet is not a right, it's a privilege and tool, a privilege and a tool that can be removed. I hate people who believe it's their god given right to have open internet access to whatever they want at school and at work.
JFGI? Great advice, do you know how many HR meetings I've had to sit through because some tard JFGI'd it and tried each method, only to find at the end of the day he had no job?
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No it's far worse, I know this because we've also done a dozen or more large private and public schools. But hey you're an expert on the subject right serenity ;)
No! No! You're oppinion that any teacher can do anything they need regardless of cost and resources just because you saw one group manage to accomplish something surely with massive amounts of help MUST be true... :rolleyes:
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No! No! You're oppinion that any teacher can do anything they need regardless of cost and resources just because you saw one group manage to accomplish something surely with massive amounts of help MUST be true... :rolleyes:
Did you see the post a few up where I stated we've done dozen of schools, and the one further up where the firewalls to do this can be had for <$1000?
See serenity, you should focus on your schoolwork, in particular reading and reading comprehension skills.
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Do a cost-benefit analysis on the benefit of the floating A versus the effort to solve your little proxy bypass issue compared to the negative impact of the floating F versus the cost to compensate for it with other work. Rationalize your objective downward or upward such that the alternative you prefer comes out on top. If the preferred alternative doesn't require the minimum effort ( : maximum benefit ), then your prospects for career success are very dim. Buy a quart of vodka and a straight razor on your way home.
Needs a ratio 'min effort:max benefit' or the minimum effort may produce minimum results. 'Prefered alternative should require minimum effort' is hardly a philosophy to garner prospects!
Also, get two bottles and skip the razor, who cares about morning ablutions when you're double as drunk?
In my opinion only, of course.
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Has nobody had the idea of giving your schools IT guy a case of beer and $50.00 to open a temp hole in the network so you can win the bet?
They can close the hole later after you have won.
(used to be $20.00 and a 12 pack but with the economy lately....)
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The internet is not a right, it's a privilege and tool, a privilege and a tool that can be removed. I hate people who believe it's their god given right to have open internet access to whatever they want at school and at work.
JFGI? Great advice, do you know how many HR meetings I've had to sit through because some tard JFGI'd it and tried each method, only to find at the end of the day he had no job?
I love when IT goes off on a power trip. Steam coming out the ears and all. :rolleyes:
HR is just a tad lower in standing than IT in my eyes though, so good point mentioning that there is worse out there :D
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A lot of highly paid people in computer security got started just like your talking about OP. Its a risk but I've always held that it is easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission.
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Has nobody had the idea of giving your schools IT guy a case of beer and $50.00 to open a temp hole in the network so you can win the bet?
They can close the hole later after you have won.
(used to be $20.00 and a 12 pack but with the economy lately....)
That sounds like what I would have done in school.
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Needs a ratio 'min effort:max benefit' or the minimum effort may produce minimum results. 'Prefered alternative should require minimum effort' is hardly a philosophy to garner prospects!
Also, get two bottles and skip the razor, who cares about morning ablutions when you're double as drunk?
In my opinion only, of course.
That was the point. The cost/benefit analysis is all about the ratio of bang per unit buck. Yet here, at least in the not too distant past (it really has changed since Mulally came in), what I usually see is that we taint the analysis by manipulating the objective such that we convince ourselves to do the easiest thing.
As for the razor, on my first real engineering job - wind tunnel test at NASA Ames - after I screwed something up, one of the tunnel mechanics counselled me thus, because he knew I felt bad, "go home, drink a quart of vodka, and slit your throat with a straight razor."
I always like to return the favor to the young guys just starting out.
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I love when IT goes off on a power trip. Steam coming out the ears and all. :rolleyes:
HR is just a tad lower in standing than IT in my eyes though, so good point mentioning that there is worse out there :D
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A lot of highly paid people in computer security got started just like your talking about OP. Its a risk but I've always held that it is easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission.
HR is truly evil. I know. My wife is an HR manager at a supplier. Here at Ford, the main problem with IT is that they forget they're the tail, not the dog. We don't sell IT systems.
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That was the point. The cost/benefit analysis is all about the ratio of bang per unit buck. Yet here, at least in the not too distant past (it really has changed since Mulally came in), what I usually see is that we taint the analysis by manipulating the objective such that we convince ourselves to do the easiest thing.
As for the razor, on my first real engineering job - wind tunnel test at NASA Ames - after I screwed something up, one of the tunnel mechanics counselled me thus, because he knew I felt bad, "go home, drink a quart of vodka, and slit your throat with a straight razor."
I always like to return the favor to the young guys just starting out.
:D
Fair enough! I think if serenity was going to do himself he would be better off nose diving a one of his planes into a forrest. Somehow i don't think he's quite that sick of living yet.
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HR is truly evil. I know. My wife is an HR manager at a supplier. Here at Ford, the main problem with IT is that they forget they're the tail, not the dog. We don't sell IT systems.
They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.
Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)
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They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.
Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)
It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.
ack-ack
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It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.
ack-ack
Maybe you haven't been around any quality IT people then. You can't pay the good ones enough. Period.
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It has been my experience that if you sold an IT guy for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be a millionare but in reality if you sold an IT guy for what he's really worth, you'd owe the other guy money.
ack-ack
It's like any industry, there's a hugely variable range of skill sets. A lot of people enter IT because they think it's easy money. Problem is the demand outweighs the supply (the skilled supply that is). So there's a huge amount of really sucky IT people out there that hop from job to job. I encounter them all the time and are continually surprised at how these people manage to land and keep jobs for more than a week.
Unfortunately people pay more to get the truely skilled people, that in turn drives the wages up, which in turns sucks in the dweebs looking for easy money.
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Maybe you haven't been around any quality IT people then. You can't pay the good ones enough. Period.
Oh, I've been around good ones, it's just been my experience within my particular industry that most IT guys have an over-inflated view of self worth.
ack-ack
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Did you see the post a few up where I stated we've done dozen of schools, and the one further up where the firewalls to do this can be had for <$1000?
See serenity, you should focus on your schoolwork, in particular reading and reading comprehension skills.
The point stands that you have NEVER dealt with the public school system in my state, and I would seriously doubt there are many schools in more dire straights than we are. We just lost several weeks of school because the state cannot afford to pay the teachers.
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They're more like the central nervous systems. Most companies these days are heavily reliant on their IT infrastructure, email, phones, automated systems etc. So when some smartass decides he has the right to surf where he wants, and goes and bypasses the corporate security - letting in some sort of malware that takes your systems offline - maybe you should reconsider what they're trying to do for you.
Most companies I deal with can tell you exactly how much they're losing if their systems go down. I doubt that ford wants to be losing any more than it already is ;)
Yes, it is true that information largely flows via IT and that one errant clown can ruin your whole corporate day. The dog analogy is till appropriate, though in terms of the overall business picture. Our end goal is to produce and sell cars profitably. IT must be aligned/subservient to that goal.
As for the right/wrong of it, I think that argument a bit silly. I mean, a corporation employs you under the terms of a contract. That contract is entered into by the consent of both parties. Thus, if you violate the mutually agreed terms of the deal by e.g., surfing the Dudes with Boobs site during work hours and with company assets, you are, by the terms of the contract, subject to disciplinary action. If you don't like that, the evil arm (HR) will usually tell you, in so many words, you can get the Bal-zac.
Hey, we had a surprise $2B profit in Q2. THe ship has been righted. We're making higher quality, better products than ever. Best of all, we didn't suckle the BadMama Obama's portly government teat (other than DOE monies available for research work, heh-heh). GM and Chrysler fell off a cliff after Cash for Clunkers expired (predicted it). We only dropped 5%. Meanwhile, everyone worries, "how can you be competitive now the GM has erased so much debt?".
To that I point out 3 things:
1. we recapitalized before the GM and Fi-Chry "screw the senior creditors with help from Uncle Sucker/pay off the big Obama campaign donor union in an act that, in a sensible era, would be equivalent of Teapot Dome" deal, retiring over $10B in debt via a debt-for-equity swap.
2. THe government has NEVER been able to compete well with a private-sector enterprise. Mark my words: GM will soon (3-5 year PD pipeline, typically) be turning out, by dint of the fact that they've lost creative control to a "czar", cars specifed by politicians (people who don't know jack about cars) for constituencies that lack the ability to pay good money (read, loser leftists who can't purchase much without a subsidy).
3. Our product pipeline has some pretty exciting stuff coming. The next big hit will be our small car intros. All will be platform-common with Europe. Anyone who has had the pleasure of driving an FoE Focus RS or Fiesta knows that I'm talking good product there.
Note: my views do not represent the views of Ford Motor Company or it's shareholders - NECESSARILY.
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The point stands that you have NEVER dealt with the public school system in my state, and I would seriously doubt there are many schools in more dire straights than we are. We just lost several weeks of school because the state cannot afford to pay the teachers.
Public schools in NZ aren't exactly that hot either. However, in any case you've never dealt (ie implimented, audited, managed or configured) with ANY schools IT system, hawaiian or otherwise have you?
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Public schools in NZ aren't exactly that hot either. However, in any case you've never dealt (ie implimented, audited, managed or configured) with ANY schools IT system, hawaiian or otherwise have you?
No sir, I have not, hence my not claiming to be an expert in the field... :rolleyes:
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Hot damn, I got away with that screed. Viva the argument IT versus Rest of World!