Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 02:16:52 AM

Title: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 02:16:52 AM
What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: WMLute on April 06, 2010, 02:19:01 AM
What do you think makes a person a good pilot and maybe post some pictures of maneuvers for any situation.
Read the first post in the following thread.

Sums up what to shoot for succinctly.

What do you consider skill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,286268.0.html)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 06, 2010, 02:19:25 AM
post deleted

lute beat me by 24 seconds
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 02:32:43 AM
Read the first post in the following thread.

Sums up what to shoot for succinctly.

What do you consider skill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,286268.0.html)
Yes,but that's what makes you a pilot that score boards basically what about a tactical situation that deals with maneuvers. First of all what are some maneuvers because I only know the basic stuff. I'm looking for advanced tactics,the what do you consider skill post just shows you goals and what makes you a good pilot. I'm talking about tactical combat maneuvers.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: oakranger on April 06, 2010, 02:36:28 AM
this may help you out.

http://www.netaces.org/ (http://www.netaces.org/)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 02:40:43 AM
this may help you out.

http://www.netaces.org/ (http://www.netaces.org/)
Not completely what I'm looking for still very useful stuff but again mostly just basics. Topgun isn't on this post for no reason at all. The navy got the top 1% of its best pilots. There not using to many basics that top 1%.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Steve on April 06, 2010, 02:41:56 AM
What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.

Well not to be vague but there's a ton of variables. What plane is on my 6? What plane am I in? What alt? Ammo and fuel load? Where am I on the map relative to friendly and enemy bases? E states?

Are the enemies close by likely to engage if I attempt reversal? If so are there friendlies nearby where we can engage and kill them all if I can get them all to engage me?

FWIW, in a  1V1, split S is a completely defensive move and not one I would go with unless I was looking to permanently disengage for some reason.  Unless I am crippled or facing a gangbang, I(and most experienced sticks) am looking for a way to kill the bad guy. I'd be using moves that help with reversal and/or negate enemy E advantage.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 02:45:21 AM
Well anybody hear about a WWI German fighter pilot who made 10 rules.I consider them more of guidelines but still very useful stuff.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 06, 2010, 02:46:45 AM
Well anybody hear about a WWI German fighter pilot who made 10 rules.I consider them more of guidelines but still very useful stuff.

Dicta Boelcke?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 06, 2010, 02:47:22 AM
Is this what your looking for?

http://f15eeagle.tripod.com/manu.html (http://f15eeagle.tripod.com/manu.html)




For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.
In that case your pretty much screwed   :old:
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Steve on April 06, 2010, 02:48:54 AM
Well anybody hear about a WWI German fighter pilot who made 10 rules.I consider them more of guidelines but still very useful stuff.

Boelcke?

He makes some good points but doesn't account for certain circumstances and some are not practical for gameplay.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 06, 2010, 02:54:05 AM
Not completely what I'm looking for still very useful stuff but again mostly just basics. Topgun isn't on this post for no reason at all. The navy got the top 1% of its best pilots. There not using to many basics that top 1%.

Don't dismiss the stuff that is posted on Netaces.org.  Some of that information, such as how to merge, energy fighting and other articles like that is exactly what you're asking for. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 06, 2010, 02:59:36 AM
Try reading the book No Guts No Glory by Frederick Blesse. There is a lot of good stuff in there.

Not completely what I'm looking for still very useful stuff but again mostly just basics. Topgun isn't on this post for no reason at all. The navy got the top 1% of its best pilots. There not using to many basics that top 1%.

If you want tactics for AH2 topgun is probably not what you want. Topgun covers tactics for heavy highspeed jets not light single engine piston driven fighters. Plus I bet the actual stuff that they teach in topgun is classified.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: uptown on April 06, 2010, 03:13:31 AM
What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.
turn?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: bozon on April 06, 2010, 03:51:24 AM
Not completely what I'm looking for still very useful stuff but again mostly just basics. Topgun isn't on this post for no reason at all. The navy got the top 1% of its best pilots. There not using to many basics that top 1%.
You are wrong. The best pilots do not make a lot of fancy moves - they actually tend to make very simple ACM, but do the correct ACM in the right time and the right way. On top of that, if you are good and know what you are doing, you will not even NEED fancy ACM.

Also, do not et too hyped over top-gun. They still do pretty basic, small scale dogfighting. It is just that the other pilots do not do even that.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: WMLute on April 06, 2010, 04:18:15 AM
You are wrong. The best pilots do not make a lot of fancy moves - they actually tend to make very simple ACM, but do the correct ACM in the right time and the right way. On top of that, if you are good and know what you are doing, you will not even NEED fancy ACM.


I'd agree with this.

The best pilots don't screw up.  (much) 

They do the right move at the right time and it usually isn't very fancy.

Timing of a move is just as important as which move you do.

You could do the perfect move in a given situation but if you time it wrong you will be dead.

You can also do a "meh" move in a given situation but if you time it perfect you will kill 'em.  
(which describes my flying pretty spot on now that I think about it.  I have tended to be kinda lazy in my flying the past few years)

The only way to learn what to do and when to do it (once you learn all the basic maneuvers that is) is to get with someone that is better than you and practice, practice, practice.  Once you can beat them find someone else who is better and practice, practice, practice.  (there is always someone better)

There is no "special" move that the top pilots in AcesHigh have learned that makes them killing machines.

They generally pick the right move and pull it at the right time.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: shreck on April 06, 2010, 09:41:45 AM
When the fight has begun, TIMING is the the most importent asset you can master! Throttle control, rudder assist rolls, flap management etc are all extremely importent against high quality enemies but IMHO timing is the one that takes the most experience and gives potentialy the most reward!   :aok
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: infowars on April 06, 2010, 09:46:33 AM
Hi Shreck... btw

IMO

There's like only three or four moves that are used consistently,  and they're right,  it's timing and smoothness.

 
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: TheDudeDVant on April 06, 2010, 09:56:27 AM
That green snuggle is right, for once.
 :D
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: ghi on April 06, 2010, 10:15:44 AM
For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.
Take him low in the bushes, jump over the trees and hope he hits one before you.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: BaldEagl on April 06, 2010, 10:44:01 AM
Not completely what I'm looking for still very useful stuff but again mostly just basics. Topgun isn't on this post for no reason at all. The navy got the top 1% of its best pilots. There not using to many basics that top 1%.

Absolutely untrue.  The best of the best use the same basic manouvers everyone else does.  They just use the right ones in the right combinations at the right times with some variation for use of trottle, rudder and flaps.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: shiv on April 06, 2010, 10:54:38 AM
Most important thing to do is to watch him.  Try and keep him in view the whole fight, regardless of the outcome.  

The situation is a bit too vague but let's say you're in a F4U and you've picked up a Spit on your 6 at 800 and closing.  Hard break turn right and wait for him to overshoot your flightpath - that is, watch to see when he goes past your tail.  Then when he's on the outside of his turn trying to get back in plane with your turn that's when you roll back at him, which will be to the left.  With luck, he'll be pulling for a shot here and you'll wind up in a rolling scissors with a decent chance of killing him.

The problem is not all enemies do the same thing in the same situation - that's why you're always watching the con, so you can read and react.

Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Dr_Death8 on April 06, 2010, 11:17:43 AM
What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.

I cry cuz I about to get shot down.... :huh
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: bcadoo on April 06, 2010, 12:41:22 PM
I think of dogfighting like 3 dimensional chess.

Knowing BFM is the equivalent of knowing how the chess pieces move, but as several have already pointed out, its knowing WHEN to make the move.  Each situation is different and has to be evaluated in real time while knowing your planes strengths/weaknesses compared to the other guy(s).

You just can't boil it down to a few 'moves'.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: shreck on April 06, 2010, 12:44:51 PM
That green snuggle is right, for once.
 :D

I feel the need to return and spoon with you  ;)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 06, 2010, 04:23:20 PM
You are wrong. The best pilots do not make a lot of fancy moves - they actually tend to make very simple BFM, but do the correct BFM in the right time and the right way. On top of that, if you are good and know what you are doing, you will not even NEED fancy ACM.

Also, do not get too hyped over top-gun. They still do pretty basic, small scale dogfighting. It is just that the other pilots do not do even that.

I'd agree with this.

The best pilots don't screw up.  (much)

They do the right move at the right time and it usually isn't very fancy.

Timing of a move is just as important as which move you do.

The only way to learn what to do and when to do it (once you learn all the basic maneuvers that is) is to get with someone that is better than you and practice, practice, practice.  Once you can beat them find someone else who is better and practice, practice, practice.  (there is always someone better)

There is no "special" move that the top pilots in Aces High have learned that makes them killing machines.

They generally pick the right move and pull it at the right time.

 :aok  I will go with the above (2) quotes already posted

also as REN always said, "Train Like You Fight, Fight Like You Train!"

another longtime favorite quote of mine, from Shaw's Book "Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering"

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't, sooner
or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass."
                                 Lieutenant Dave"Preacher"Pace, USN
                                 U.S.Navy Fighter Weapons School Instructor



practice hard, fight harder.......  good luck


Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: FireDrgn on April 06, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way stealth.  You are asking the wrong question.   There for you are  going to get the wrong answer.

"What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do."  - steath

You start with a generalisation, but you want specific information.   Your second question is still a generalization.   Every variable will require a differant question including specific information.        ie:   speed , plane type, alt, ect.

There is no way to answer your question with out a generalization in return.

"If some one is on your six what would youd do?"   Is the wrong question.  You need to ask . How did someone get on my six? 

<S>



Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: JunkyII on April 06, 2010, 05:20:09 PM
I personally love seeing a plane doing a split S, especially if nobody is around us. What did he do? Gave me the advantage in the fight, he better be pretty good to come back and beat from a lower alt/E.


When I have a plane on my six:

Me I act dumb if I got room to do it. Depending on my aircraft(torque is key) Ill make a very shallow diving turn not pulling alot of Gs. As he comes closer and closer Im reading his nose. At about 800 out most people seem to start pulling hard into their shot, so I start turning into them a bit harder. At 600 I flip my plane and point my wingtip at my opponents nose scrubbing his shot while pulling my planes nose up. At this time you got to make a decision whether your gunna get the shot or not. If he isnt that far away from not overshooting you your going to have to do something. I normally just bring my plane around in a loop and set the same trick up again. If he clearly overshot you and is still pulling towards you, your about to get the best looking kill of your life but it is really his fault. This is where torque comes in from before if you read Grizz's post about tator aiming he says something about using your torque to roll into your shot.....this doesnt just help with tators it works with everything with torque. Look up Grizz'z thread about aiming for the rest of that kill shot.

If the guy doesnt take your bait or you miss the shot, dont be worried. Chances are hes gunna just zoom by and try to set it up again so rinse and repeat. If you miss the shot on him in the first reverse your gunna be in a scissors if the other pilot doesnt blow his E and get scared. Its most likely gunna be a vertical scissors you get in so make sure you watch which side hes rolling his plane over towards when your coming up. I go to the side of him he isnt rolling towards because I think hes blowing alot of E being upside down at a slower speed but many people tell me they go towards the side hes rolling.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: JunkyII on April 06, 2010, 05:23:22 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way stealth.  You are asking the wrong question.   There for you are  going to get the wrong answer.

"What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do."  - steath

You start with a generalisation, but you want specific information.   Your second question is still a generalization.   Every variable will require a differant question including specific information.        ie:   speed , plane type, alt, ect.

There is no way to answer your question with out a generalization in return.

"If some one is on your six what would youd do?"   Is the wrong question.  You need to ask . How did someone get on my six? 

<S>




I disagree a bit with your final question, its not a perfect world in Aces High so your gunna have someone get there sooner or later no matter what you do. I think thats the difference between the "alright" sticks and the "good" sticks. The good sticks will get that random plane off their six most of the time where as the alright stick gets shot down once someone is on their six.

BTW I know me personally I give people my six just so they will attack my plane. I know I can get them into a fight from there :salute
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: 2bighorn on April 06, 2010, 05:26:49 PM
You need to ask . How did someone get on my six? 

No guts, no glory!
Hence the right question is: "How do I kill that guy?"
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Bosco123 on April 06, 2010, 06:00:05 PM
Personally, SA and timing are the best things a pilot can use to do just about anything. People can get by with one or the other, but the best know how to use both.

<S>
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: The Fugitive on April 06, 2010, 06:02:58 PM
read very carefully.... THERE ARE NO SPECIAL MOVES ! The links people have given you ...and you keep fluffing off....are THE moves.

Practice is the only thing that will "get that guy off your tail".
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 07:27:20 PM
Try reading the book No Guts No Glory by Frederick Blesse. There is a lot of good stuff in there.

If you want tactics for AH2 topgun is probably not what you want. Topgun covers tactics for heavy highspeed jets not light single engine piston driven fighters. Plus I bet the actual stuff that they teach in topgun is classified.
That's not the point TOPGUN I say is just a advanced level of dogfighting. I've been in this game awhile doing that the same stuff isn't enough. I gotta step it up,the basic merge just isn't gonna cut it.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 07:29:26 PM
You are wrong. The best pilots do not make a lot of fancy moves - they actually tend to make very simple ACM, but do the correct ACM in the right time and the right way. On top of that, if you are good and know what you are doing, you will not even NEED fancy ACM.

Also, do not et too hyped over top-gun. They still do pretty basic, small scale dogfighting. It is just that the other pilots do not do even that.
Yes,true but the way I see it the,maneuvers are simple but brilliant.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: TequilaChaser on April 06, 2010, 09:00:56 PM
That's not the point TOPGUN I say is just a advanced level of dogfighting.
they train harder hence they "advance" it further, ask 1Duke1, Mace ( Mace2004 ), eagl or any others who are actual Military Jet Fighter pilots who play this game

I've been in this game awhile doing that the same stuff isn't enough. I gotta step it up,the basic merge just isn't gonna cut it.

U got to "P-E-R-F-E-C-T" your merge and then build on your ability from there........ prob 90% of the fights are won from whoever gains angle advantage 1st on the MERGE.....

early bird gets the worm, stealth..... you say you been in this game awhile, and not to be rude, but I been doing this game since 1999, and did AW, FA, CFS  & WB and 3 or 4 others before AH ( and still during  )......and I still learn things, heh, probally things I have done learned before and forgot 20 times over but I still learn stuff


there is no magic moves, no tricks, no gimmics......... it all boils down to one simple little thing

HOW FAR DO YOU WANT TO PUSH YOURSELF's ABILITY?   it is up to you and only you, in how far you want to advance your skill......... it is that simple....
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: The Fugitive on April 06, 2010, 09:15:19 PM
That's not the point TOPGUN I say is just a advanced level of dogfighting. I've been in this game awhile doing that the same stuff isn't enough. I gotta step it up,the basic merge just isn't gonna cut it.

All Topgun is is pushing the envelope. Using the same moves just running them out to the ragged edge. That what everyone tries to do here in this game is push it right to the edge. After all if you screw up you get another plane here.

Be sure you have stall limiter turned off in the game so that you CAN push the planes to the edge, then get with a trainer. They will spot where your making small mistakes that get you in that position where you start thinking "how do I get this guy off my tail?"
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 09:20:23 PM
Guys really I just made this post to see some new maneuvers to get a couple of ideas. Also to see some fighter formations that's it. Not if you ever use them or not.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: infowars on April 06, 2010, 09:23:46 PM
Yeah well,  we're clearly bored,  so thanks...
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 06, 2010, 09:33:09 PM
Guys really I just made this post to see some new maneuvers to get a couple of ideas. Also to see some fighter formations that's it. Not if you ever use them or not.

You must master the basics first, young grasshopper.  There are no magic advanced maneuvers that guys use that make them so good, it comes with practice and building off fundamental building blocks.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Lazerr on April 06, 2010, 09:56:50 PM
basically dont give him an easy shot.. make a small profile, and try to be turning into his flight path always.  Always be looking out of your plane at close targets, and move to make their shot difficult.

throttle control..
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 06, 2010, 10:01:41 PM
You must master the basics first, young grasshopper.  There are no magic advanced maneuvers that guys use that make them so good, it comes with practice and building off fundamental building blocks.
Yes master,once I was student but now I am the master.(star wars)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Bosco123 on April 06, 2010, 10:35:08 PM
You know what's funny is, who else pushes either 2, 4 or 6 at random to check their six, when their not playing the game? I do it almost non stop now lol, just turning into a habit.

<S>
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 06, 2010, 10:45:14 PM
Good habit during Aces High, bad habit during math homework!
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: crazyivan on April 06, 2010, 11:17:58 PM
Just load some Kenny Loggins songs on your Ipod Stealth.  :aok

This message has been Tom Cruise approved!

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/zlatan_8/topgun.jpg)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 07, 2010, 12:35:02 AM
Just load some Kenny Loggins songs on your Ipod Stealth.  :aok

This message has been Tom Cruise approved!

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k56/zlatan_8/topgun.jpg)
You gotta love Tom Cruise and that reversal in the movie.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 07, 2010, 12:59:44 AM
that reversal in the movie.

Not really. Did not see anything special.
It was a good movie, but I don't remember any really good maneuvers that I liked.  :headscratch:
Maybe you can refresh my memory.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 07, 2010, 01:09:15 AM
Well there was the reversal where he went up cut throttle the guy passed by he got the shot.The other one was where iceman broke right went down came over top,was very briefly showed though.

I'm looking for fighter formation pictures like the finger four.Ones like that.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: SPKmes on April 07, 2010, 01:21:36 AM
Well there was the reversal where he went up cut throttle the guy passed by he got the shot.The other one was where iceman broke right went down came over top,was very briefly showed though.

I'm looking for fighter formation pictures like the finger four.Ones like that.

I believe that maneuver is the cobra....it is possible but you do need speed for this to work..
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 07, 2010, 01:23:25 AM
I believe that maneuver is the cobra....it is possible but you do need speed for this to work..

The way I understand it is you need thrust vectoring to do that. So I don't believe it's a cobra, I think he just opened the airbrakes to let him pass.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 07, 2010, 01:24:45 AM
Well there was the reversal where he went up cut throttle the guy passed by he got the shot.The other one was where iceman broke right went down came over top,was very briefly showed though.

I'm looking for fighter formation pictures like the finger four.Ones like that.

I remember that. That was not a reversal, that's why I asked.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 07, 2010, 01:56:58 AM
Anyways what's a combat tactic you guys use often. Know any fighter formations please I'm desperate need stuff for swoops epic missions.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: EskimoJoe on April 07, 2010, 01:57:19 AM
You guys know what this thread smells of?

"I'm gonna hit the brakes and he'll fly right by!"

 :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 07, 2010, 02:29:42 AM
Anyways what's a combat tactic you guys use often.

That depends on the situation.

Quote
Know any fighter formations please I'm desperate need stuff for swoops epic missions.

Back when I was the CO, in FSO I would keep my squad 200-800yards away from each other. That allows every pilot to maintain good SA, as there is no friendly aircraft near you blocking you field of view. Also when there is someone diving on you that you (or the squad) does not see, and you notice him at the last moment and break, he can't just go for someone else as the aircraft are not right next to each other.
I would not recommend you use any specific formation because that required accurate altitude control, heading, and power settings. If you do want to use close formations I suggest you practice in the training arena with the people who your going to be flying with.

Do not take offense by this but by what I see here I do not think your ready to lead such a specific (for the lack of a better term) mission. It's not my call but I would not be quite comfortable following you just yet.

Good Luck
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: FireDrgn on April 07, 2010, 11:27:03 AM
I disagree a bit with your final question, its not a perfect world in Aces High so your gunna have someone get there sooner or later no matter what you do. I think thats the difference between the "alright" sticks and the "good" sticks. The good sticks will get that random plane off their six most of the time where as the alright stick gets shot down once someone is on their six.

BTW I know me personally I give people my six just so they will attack my plane. I know I can get them into a fight from there :salute


You have made a true statment. The differance is im trying to get stealth to see the picture from the begining of the fight not just after he steps init. Plus +++++How did he get on my six? covers both questions.             
If he would take a film of his fights and review them....... The better question is How did he get on my six?   He is never going to figure it out looking at the film asking now what do i do?


Btw  flat turn beats the split S---- stealth.


<S> 
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: crazyivan on April 07, 2010, 05:54:18 PM
You guys know what this thread smells of?

"I'm gonna hit the brakes and he'll fly right by!"

 :rofl :rofl
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii99/Unplugged24/topgun_merlin.jpg)

YOU'RE GONNA DO WHAT? :D
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 07, 2010, 07:59:40 PM
The maneuvers I do is because I know them real well.Besides you can't think,if you do your dead.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: JunkyII on April 07, 2010, 09:05:37 PM
The maneuvers I do is because I know them real well.Besides you can't think,if you do your dead.
Disagree, I normally think about alot of things. Like when I am dive bombing a field, I go pass the field and then come in......so when I come out I can set up a rope for the friendly cons coming in :salute
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 07, 2010, 09:50:22 PM
Disagree, I normally think about alot of things. Like when I am dive bombing a field, I go pass the field and then come in......so when I come out I can set up a rope for the friendly cons coming in :salute
I stole that from topgun man isn't that what were all doing. Also I disagree with my post to,you can always think,besides a pilot is able to take all the events that happened to see what he has learned. That's also from topgun.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 07, 2010, 10:34:52 PM
I stole that from topgun man isn't that what were all doing. Also I disagree with my post to,you can always think,besides a pilot is able to take all the events that happened to see what he has learned. That's also from topgun.

If you disagree with it why would you post it? Just think for your self and stop taking random phrases from a movie.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Mace2004 on April 07, 2010, 11:13:40 PM
Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: JunkyII on April 07, 2010, 11:24:22 PM
Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl

Yall wear flight suits to the bar? Thats cheating....makes it too easy :devil
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: SIK1 on April 07, 2010, 11:32:09 PM
Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl


For a Tom Cruise flick.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 08, 2010, 12:26:58 AM
OK,back to subject. What kinda formation is good to defend about 30 to 80 bombers all in one massive group,flying at 25k bombing over an area that has about a 100guns on it defended like Berlin. Whats a good fighter formation for that.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 08, 2010, 12:31:10 AM
I would try to answer that if I understood what the sam heck you are attempting to write.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: pervert on April 08, 2010, 12:49:32 AM
This thread makes me feel very old   :lol
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Zoney on April 08, 2010, 12:52:11 AM
Stealth, stop now.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 08, 2010, 12:59:13 AM
Stealth, stop now.
May I ask what.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Kermit de frog on April 08, 2010, 01:25:02 AM
Carrier Sortie (http://www.lgmfilms.net/AH/Films/Carrier%20Sortie.zip)
It's like Top Gun, but with TBMs.  :)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 12:25:58 PM
stealth to answer you're 1rst Q. it depends on the planes your plane and the guy you're dog fighting. if you r faster but less maneuverable try to get higher and he or she is slower so they wold level owt 1rst after a bit he gets ahead and you dive in on him. but if your slower try to owt turn him.
im not the best at the game but i learned a lot playing offline. so if u want try go ahead if not then don't. 
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Kermit de frog on April 08, 2010, 12:38:07 PM
stealth to answer you're 1rst Q. it depends on the planes your plane and the guy you're dog fighting. if you r faster but less maneuverable try to get higher and he or she is slower so they wold level owt 1rst after a bit he gets ahead and you dive in on him. but if your slower try to owt turn him.
im not the best at the game but i learned a lot playing offline. so if u want try go ahead if not then don't. 


My eyes!  They burn!  Ahhhh....
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 08, 2010, 01:09:23 PM
If kingcobrakid gets in on this thread I'm going to have to break down and hire a grade schooler to translate for me.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 01:31:44 PM

My eyes!  They burn!  Ahhhh....


what do u mean by that?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Kermit de frog on April 08, 2010, 01:32:44 PM

what do u mean by that?

I apologize.  I assumed you were an American.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 02:14:11 PM
I apologize.  I assumed you were an American.

i am American
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 08, 2010, 02:18:30 PM

what do u mean by that?

I believe he's referring to the inability of some to piece together a remotely concise and readable paragraph.

I know you're new, so here is some advice:

Take your time on the posts.  Spell out the words correctly (nothing bugs me more than people who find "are" too difficult so they choose "r") and try to use proper capitalization and punctuation.  We're not English teachers but it will make thing easier for all of us, and especially for you if you put a little more effort into these posts.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 08, 2010, 03:22:31 PM
Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl


Don't forget the Mig-28  :devil
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: shreck on April 08, 2010, 03:39:13 PM
i am American


    :headscratch:   :huh
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 03:55:39 PM
stealth to answer you're 1rst Q. it depends on the planes your plane and the guy you're dog fighting. if you r faster but less maneuverable try to get higher and he or she is slower so they wold level owt 1rst after a bit he gets ahead and you dive in on him. but if your slower try to owt turn him.
im not the best at the game but i learned a lot playing offline. so if u want try go ahead if not then don't. 
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
ok I just want to know do any of you think this would help in a dog fight?  /\
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 08, 2010, 05:26:49 PM
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
ok I just want to know do any of you think this would help in a dog fight?  /\

You are briefly and poorly (sorry, just being honest with ya) covering some basics of e-management or engergy management.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 08, 2010, 06:27:22 PM
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
ok I just want to know do any of you think this would help in a dog fight?  /\

No, but then I'm obviously not the uber experten fighter ace you are.


ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 08, 2010, 06:38:05 PM
stealth to answer you're 1rst Q. it depends on the planes your plane and the guy you're dog fighting. if you r faster but less maneuverable try to get higher and he or she is slower so they wold level owt 1rst after a bit he gets ahead and you dive in on him. but if your slower try to owt turn him.
im not the best at the game but i learned a lot playing offline. so if u want try go ahead if not then don't. 
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
ok I just want to know do any of you think this would help in a dog fight?  /\


If your faster does not mean you can outclimb some one. Example: I have outclimed a 190D, P-47M, and an La-7 in a Spitfire 9 (all at the same time) a week ago, Spit 9 is a hell lot slower than any of the 3.
If you are slower does not mean you can out turn someone. Example: 190A5 is slower than a spit16, however a spit16 can out turn the 190A5
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: B4Buster on April 08, 2010, 06:40:19 PM
chances are, if someone halfway decent at cartoon flying is on your 6, you're dead.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: B4Buster on April 08, 2010, 06:41:57 PM
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
                                                                                                    /\
ok I just want to know do any of you think this would help in a dog fight?  /\

sorry, open mouth - insert foot.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 07:54:17 PM
If your faster does not mean you can outclimb some one. Example: I have outclimed a 190D, P-47M, and an La-7 in a Spitfire 9 (all at the same time) a week ago, Spit 9 is a hell lot slower than any of the 3.
If you are slower does not mean you can out turn someone. Example: 190A5 is slower than a spit16, however a spit16 can out turn the 190A5



ok if i could play online i wold bet i could beat u in a I-16 and you in eny plane but the me163 or me262
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 08, 2010, 07:59:09 PM

ok if i could play online i wold bet i could beat u in a I-16 and you in eny plane but the me163 or me262
Come on now this is a topic about tactics,formations and 1980s movies.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 08, 2010, 08:06:31 PM
Come on now this is a topic about tactics,formations and 1980s movies.

erg why do you got to be right
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 08, 2010, 08:14:35 PM

ok if i could play online i wold bet i could beat u in a I-16 and you in eny plane but the me163 or me262

Awesome, one of my favorite posts ever.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 08, 2010, 08:29:26 PM

ok if i could play online i wold bet i could beat u in a I-16 and you in eny plane but the me163 or me262

You wanted to know my opinion on the tactics you stated, and I told you my opinion. If you do not like my opinion that much that you want to attempt to prove me wrong my attempting to shoot me down. I welcome it, just let me know what time would you like to meet me in DA.
I'll see you  :)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Dadano on April 08, 2010, 08:31:21 PM
You wanted to know my opinion on the tactics you stated, and I told you my opinion. If you do not like my opinion that much that you want to attempt to prove me wrong my attempting to shoot me down. I welcome it, just let me know what time would you like to meet me in DA.
I'll see you  :)

It's a little kid guys, wtf. :huh
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: MachFly on April 08, 2010, 08:37:49 PM
It's a little kid guys, wtf. :huh

Let him learn, don't you learn something new from a fight with someone more experienced. I love doing to DA and even to get shot down by someone more experienced to learn something from it.
The more he knows the better he will be, perhaps in a couple of years he will be getting the highest fighter rank or something, you never know.
Plus it can't heart him, if he will not want to I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: 5PointOh on April 08, 2010, 08:42:01 PM
This thread is Maverick approved!

(http://onceuponawin.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/win-pics-top-gun.jpg)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: The Fugitive on April 08, 2010, 08:49:36 PM
It's a little kid guys, wtf. :huh

Even "kids" need to learn there are consequences to what you say/type.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 08, 2010, 09:52:35 PM
Let him learn, don't you learn something new from a fight with someone more experienced. I love doing to DA and even to get shot down by someone more experienced to learn something from it.
The more he knows the better he will be, perhaps in a couple of years he will be getting the highest fighter rank or something, you never know.
Plus it can't heart him, if he will not want to I'm fine with it.
Now now he's my squaddie go easy on him. I can shoot him down as well. Still doesn't give you the right. Don't worry he'll learn.

Back to topic please.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: 5PointOh on April 08, 2010, 09:56:48 PM
Actually, if Mach seen him in the MA, then he does have to right shoot him.   Just saying though...
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Wmaker on April 09, 2010, 03:57:49 AM
Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl

Thanks for the laughs Mace! :aok

<S>
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: JunkyII on April 09, 2010, 07:45:48 AM
chances are, if someone halfway decent at cartoon flying is on your 6, you're dead.
Ill give you my six anyday buster :banana:








 :bolt:
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Nwbie on April 09, 2010, 10:09:02 AM
I don't know about topgun ACM, but over the years I have learned that these skillz are probably the most important.

1. Ability to fly your aircraft while looking 99% of the time to your left rear, right rear, up left -up right-up middle
2. While in a weeds level flight, avoiding trees in front of you while doing #1.
3. While looking in the directions described in #1, paying attention to the other enmy hovering over your fight waiting for the pick, and being able to turn inside him when he dives down and augers.
4. While looking in the directions as described in #1, paying very close attention to your squadmate, as he hovers over the fight "protecting" you from other picktards while really waiting for the opportunity to steal your kill.
#4 over the years became the most important ACM I have learned and forgot, and relearned and forgot, etc......

5.  Muting wrag on squadvox cuz his singing just plain sux...  ACM not really...necessity - yes


NwBie

 :joystick: :joystick:
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 12:11:03 PM

ok if i could play online i wold bet i could beat u in a I-16 and you in eny plane but the me163 or me262

You related to kingcobradude by any chance?  Oh, and my milk money is on MachFly, don't think you'd last more than a half turn past merge.


ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 12:32:57 PM
You related to kingcobradude by any chance?  Oh, and my milk money is on MachFly, don't think you'd last more than a half turn past merge.


ack-ack

from the small amount of this thread that i've read so far, cooldued is a shade.

look at how he types, and spells.

 even our non-american members tend to speak and type more intelligently than this person is. they also tend to spell correctly. if you noticed cool spelled out as "owt".
 
 he's a shade fishing for responses. i somewhat suspect he gotcha dude.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 12:40:28 PM
from the small amount of this thread that i've read so far, cooldued is a shade.

look at how he types, and spells.

 even our non-american members tend to speak and type more intelligently than this person is. they also tend to spell correctly. if you noticed cool spelled out as "owt".
 
 he's a shade fishing for responses. i somewhat suspect he gotcha dude.

He's a squadron mate of stealth's.


ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 01:07:38 PM
He's a squadron mate of stealth's.


ack-ack

but you really think he's serious? that he spells like that?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 02:32:16 PM
but you really think he's serious? that he spells like that?

Yes, I've seen far worse.  Just the other day in the MW arena a player kept spelling 'enemy' as 'animy'.


ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 02:45:12 PM
Yes, I've seen far worse.  Just the other day in the MW arena a player kept spelling 'enemy' as 'animy'.


ack-ack

ok......now THAT's funny.......

 :rofl
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: WMLute on April 09, 2010, 03:10:27 PM
but you really think he's serious? that he spells like that?

I generally won't take anybody serious that spells like that.

(except for maybe Dale before he started using the Spell Check)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 09, 2010, 03:17:34 PM
but you really think he's serious? that he spells like that?

You might be on to something, for someone who says he hasn't flown online, he was discussing the I-16 and fighting against perk planes.  Last time I checked they don't perk em offline.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 03:45:49 PM
He's a squadron mate of stealth's.


ack-ack


 :mad: erg you know what ack-ack I should spell every thing I can wrong!so wrong nobody can read it but me would that be better?if not then shut up if you want that I can give it to you.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 03:48:54 PM
You might be on to something, for someone who says he hasn't flown online, he was discussing the I-16 and fighting against perk planes.  Last time I checked they don't perk em offline.

yep....it's times like this that being a little cynical is helpful  :D :noid

and it would appear as if he has a personal vendetta against akak....notice that i brought up the spelling issue......and he attacks akak?
 :rofl
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 04:00:25 PM
yep....it's times like this that being a little cynical is helpful  :D :noid

and it would appear as if he has a personal vendetta against akak....notice that i brought up the spelling issue......and he attacks akak?
 :rofl

well u don't say it over and over and over he is.erg i wish i could play game now I would bang up the B-24j that fly's around the base's and say its ack-ack and your in the gunner.   
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: 5PointOh on April 09, 2010, 04:14:55 PM
 :huh what the hell are you on?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 04:24:04 PM
:huh what the hell are you on?


read pages 5,6,7,and8
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 04:38:01 PM

 :mad: erg you know what ack-ack I should spell every thing I can wrong!so wrong nobody can read it but me would that be better?if not then shut up if you want that I can give it to you.

I never made any comments about your terrible butchering of the English language, I made a comment that your 'tip' isn't of any real value as a dogfigthing tactic.  I'm sorry if that offended you but as I said, you're far more of an 'experten' in dogfighting than I hope to ever be.

well u don't say it over and over and over he is.erg i wish i could play game now I would bang up the B-24j that fly's around the base's and say its ack-ack and your in the gunner.   

I don't know what you're trying to say other than if you could play that you'd 'school' me because you're far more of an 'experten' in dogfighting than I am.  I'm sure that you believe this to be true.


ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 04:39:56 PM


and it would appear as if he has a personal vendetta against akak....notice that i brought up the spelling issue......and he attacks akak?
 :rofl

I guess I picked the wrong time to shave my ankles.  If I can only remember where I put those squeaker ankle humping shin guards that Silat sold me...

ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 04:48:54 PM
you know what just forget it  don't even get it lets just forget it... what did you say butchering :mad: what ever and i don't know i can school you.I know i can try to school you.ok?
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 04:49:56 PM
you know what just forget it  don't even get it lets just forget it... what did you say butchering :mad: what ever and i don't know i can school you.I know i can try to school you.ok?

holy run on sentence batman!!!!
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 04:52:32 PM
holy run on sentence batman!!!!

don't care. :D
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 09, 2010, 05:12:22 PM
you know what just forget it  don't even get it lets just forget it... what did you say butchering :mad: what ever and i don't know i can school you.I know i can try to school you.ok?

I'm sure you can 'school' me, because as I mentioned a few times already, you're an 'experten' and I'm not.  I mean, anyone that spells dude "dued" has to be such a bad bellybutton that even Chuck Norris would piss his pants in fear.

ack-ack
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cooldued on April 09, 2010, 05:20:56 PM
I'm sure you can 'school' me, because as I mentioned a few times already, you're an 'experten' and I'm not.  I mean, anyone that spells dude "dued" has to be such a bad bellybutton that even Chuck Norris would piss his pants in fear.

ack-ack

omg I just pissed my pants laughing :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: CAP1 on April 09, 2010, 05:32:16 PM
I'm sure you can 'school' me, because as I mentioned a few times already, you're an 'experten' and I'm not.  I mean, anyone that spells dude "dued" has to be such a bad bellybutton that even Chuck Norris would piss his pants in fear.

ack-ack

chuck norris was a wuss who was afraid to step into a ring with bruce lee.


but then again, i'm smart enough that i'd have not stepped in the ring with either of them....... :noid
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Vulcan on April 09, 2010, 05:43:53 PM
First rule about learning ACM is you must be able to express your ACM via complex hand movements:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzU1sYPjzo
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: SPKmes on April 09, 2010, 05:46:41 PM
WOW  :headscratch: :D cool thread.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: stealth on April 09, 2010, 09:22:14 PM
Calm down people,and I'm talking to you to cooldued. Back to topic seriously. Make your own little post. What do you think of Mavericks move when he slows down and the enemy fighter flys right by,anybody do something like that and I'm not talking about some 109 reversal or a enemy fighter diving in on you,then you pull up. I mean having a plane very close to you then you pulling up slowing down,and the fighter passes right by you.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: SPKmes on April 10, 2010, 05:43:26 AM
Basically what happens there is he plays dumb..keeps a constant speed knowing full well the other pilot is fully intent on getting him..the con has a greater closing rate he chops throttle at the right time pulls up out of guns and waits for the fly by to get the snapshot... Many do this in game it doesn't happen like you see it in topgun...1one because it is a movie..and two because half the guys here are a bad shot....three because this game doesn't have planes fly at Mach speeds.... this happens to me quite often...people like Grizz and AKAK just for example sake can and do get the snap shot more times than not...it is not a complicated maneuver, just good timing and lack of foresight by the con...had he taken notice of his closure rate and adjusted his speed the move would have backfired on Maverick and the movie would have been 3/4hr shorter.

In an earlier post I had thought it was a cobra maneuver. On reflection I was talking out my ......
However this particular maneuver can be done by most fighters and a number of thrust vectoring fighters.I believe it can be done in game to a certain extent but not as it is realistically supposed to be...we just don't have the speed and G handling capabilities.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: The Fugitive on April 10, 2010, 09:58:21 AM
Calm down people,and I'm talking to you to cooldued. Back to topic seriously. Make your own little post. What do you think of Mavericks move when he slows down and the enemy fighter flys right by,anybody do something like that and I'm not talking about some 109 reversal or a enemy fighter diving in on you,then you pull up. I mean having a plane very close to you then you pulling up slowing down,and the fighter passes right by you.

Did you happen to read this quote wayyyyy back on page 4?

Please, please, please, please, please, please.......do NOT even think about using the movie Topgun as a training aide.  An aileron roll isn't a good guns defense, you can't get into a flat spin over land and "head out to sea", all four cats never go down at the same time on a CVN, there isn't a crumb of good ACM information in it, there's no Topgun Trophy, no written tests, no grades, appropriate uniform in the Miramar O'Club bar was flight suits, not tropical whites, there are no stocking-wearing civilian Topgun "instructor" bimbos, and, if there were, I would not need to be told that "she's a civilian so you don't salute her" and I'd beeotch slap her for opening her mouth during a TACTS debrief.  Other than that, it's a fine movie. :rofl


Now I don't know how much weight Mace's comment should carry, but seeing as he does fly jets I think he may have a bit of a handle on this

Top Gun is a MOVIE ! 95% of it is tweaked just to make it entertaining... because after all that is what a movie is, entertainment ! Much like "Pearl Harbor", there are so many mistakes in that movie that it is laughable, but it is pretty good entertainment.
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Jayhawk on April 10, 2010, 10:15:45 AM
had he taken notice of his closure rate and adjusted his speed the move would have backfired on Maverick and the movie would have been 3/4hr shorter.

 :lol
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: cactuskooler on April 12, 2010, 12:49:24 AM
Wrong thread...
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: uptown on April 12, 2010, 07:11:43 AM
I'm sure you can 'school' me, because as I mentioned a few times already, you're an 'experten' and I'm not.  I mean, anyone that spells dude "dued" has to be such a bad bellybutton that even Chuck Norris would piss his pants in fear.

ack-ack
:rofl
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: RTHolmes on April 12, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
erg
erg
erg

 :headscratch:
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: Vulcan on April 12, 2010, 05:21:20 PM
Did you happen to read this quote wayyyyy back on page 4?

Now I don't know how much weight Mace's comment should carry, but seeing as he does fly jets I think he may have a bit of a handle on this

Did you notice no denial on the mens locker room / towel antics ;)
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: The Fugitive on April 12, 2010, 06:26:43 PM
Did you notice no denial on the mens locker room / towel antics ;)


that falls under the "don't ask, don't tell" rule   :D
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: TnDep on April 18, 2010, 01:58:31 PM
What are some combat tactical maneuvers that would prepare you for any situation in a dogfight. For instance what would you do if you had a plane dead on your 6 split s or something else. What do you think you should do.

I'm not the best stick by far but here's a few things that I do stealth.

Planes do play a factor in what I do but lets say for example that both of you are in similar aircraft.  I will try and force the overshoot as slightly as possible where the E advantage is very slim for the other player.  If they are 200-600 yrds and close to co-e I may start a flat turn left and right creating separation until I can initiate the barrel roll.  The primary objective here is to get good enough where you don't lose as much E trying to perform this maneuver.  Once you get it down, you will have a shot right after the first barrel roll almost every time.

If there 800 plus I will go a little nose down and turn right or left pulling hard enough to create a high angle shot for them, when they appear to have a shot go wings level and climb at the same time roll your wings towards the direction they will be going after they pass you and you should have a shot ( takes some practice to get down but this maneuver is genius). 

Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: humble on April 19, 2010, 02:04:16 PM
That's not the point TOPGUN I say is just a advanced level of dogfighting. I've been in this game awhile doing that the same stuff isn't enough. I gotta step it up,the basic merge just isn't gonna cut it.

Here in lies the problem for most of us. There is a misconception that there is a "holy grail" of ACM when in truth there is not. It all comes down to 3 basic elements:

1) Relative lift vector

Your plane will only go where its lift vector lets it...and so will the other guys. All ACM has to be applied with in this framework. There is no single "right move" that works all the time.

2) Relative E state

An offshoot of the above but helps to define your options. If your + E some things will get you killed and others will compound your advantage. If your -E some options carry minimal immediate risk but offer little gain (split-S for example) while others offer an immediate offensive option with potential consequences.

3) Gunnery

Single biggest component that separates the good from the godly. You'll rarely ever beat a great shot (even if you "out fly him") if your own gunnery is substandard...

There is no "better move", just a better understanding of which move is the right one at given moment....
Title: Re: TOPGUN acm
Post by: snagdoa on April 20, 2010, 05:33:25 PM
Boelcke?

He makes some good points but doesn't account for certain circumstances and some are not practical for gameplay.

Also WW1 and WW2 are two different animals of the same family