Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on April 26, 2010, 03:09:55 PM
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
Basically, it's all about working the throttle and knowing how to use manual trim - torque can be your greatest enemy as well as your best fried if you know how to handle it.
And you have to get used to the ballistics in case of later 109 versions... which one are you referring to? Quite some differences between them.
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I don't use manual trim at all and I can handle it pretty well.
It's just like any other plane, but placing an emphasis on the importance of the crossing shot, as this gun solution ends the fight, whereas if you were in a 50cal bird, this gun solution would do no more damage than a simple oil leak.
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I don't fly to fly, I fly to shoot.
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Go straight, if something gets in front of you, shoot it or turn. :bolt:
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The vertical and torque is your friend :aok always fight going up hill :aok
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Its simple, all you have to do is:
1. Climb to 25k
2. level off
3. dive down on unsuspecting victim
3.5 Ho everything in sight
4. climb back up to 25k
5. any threat from adversaries co alt
6. RUN!
:D
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Its simple, all you have to do is:
1. Climb to 25k
2. level off
3. dive down on unsuspecting victim
3.5 Ho everything in sight
4. climb back up to 25k
5. any threat from adversaries co alt
6. RUN!
:D
:rofl
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<--a magician never reveals his secrets :D
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Just like Lusche stated, success is mostly in throttle management and learning to use the torque to your advantage and gunnery is a big plus.
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Its simple, all you have to do is:
1. Climb to 25k
2. level off
3. dive down on unsuspecting victim
3.5 Ho everything in sight
4. climb back up to 25k
5. any threat from adversaries co alt
6. RUN!
:D
Obviously you've never flown against my squad..
Torque! always turn/roll to the left, have confident control of the throttle, take fights to the vertical as much as possible, and torque roll downwards to find a stalling spit in your pipper.
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die in it, over and over again. soon it becomes second nature.
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I don't use manual trim at all and I can handle it pretty well.
I don't use combat trim during regular combat either.
But someone not used to the 109's (and manual trim) will quite often do the lawndart if he doesn't know how to trim elevator up quickly. Been there, done that ;)
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Got to use the throttle and E to your advantage. Vertical scisors is a 109's best friend
<S>
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Its simple, all you have to do is:
1. Climb to 25k
2. level off
3. dive down on unsuspecting victim
3.5 Ho everything in sight
4. climb back up to 25k
5. any threat from adversaries co alt
6. RUN!
:D
Thanks for the lesson on how to fly a Mustang,we're talking about 109s here :D
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Its simple, all you have to do is:
1. Climb to 25k
2. level off
3. dive down on unsuspecting victim
3.5 Ho everything in sight
4. climb back up to 25k
5. any threat from adversaries co alt
6. RUN!
:D
You steal this from chalenges handbook on flying?
had to edit my handicap spelling :eek:
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
fly the zero, the 109 isnt a plane but a lawndart :aok
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From a spitfire dweeb here. Do not try to rope in the same place over and over eventually the spit dweeb wiil be at same alt and e and will kill u. 1/2 the 109 kills I have are this way.
Semp
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
You've been in the game long enough to know who the good 109 sticks are. When you log on find out where they are fighting and fight against them. Seek out guys like Agent360, Grizz, JB11, Stampf and his squad. You'll get killed alot, but dieing is learning imo. I'm sure any of them will be glad to take ya to the DA. Have them record the films and send them to you. That way you can see what they are seeing and how they are getting angles on you. You can look at your films but it's better to look at theirs.
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One thing ive noticed since flying nothing but late 109's...I cant fly anything else anymore. They are much different than the rest of the rides in here.
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
Start the engine and give it full throttle. Auto take-off helps. :D
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Carry gondies. Get some alt. Lead ALLOT. Hold the trigger a little longer. :D
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Throttle management is key; it will torque the entire aircraft to the left or right. It can help you hang longer and will allow you to perform stall-speed maneuvers that no other plane in the set can follow.
Unless you're in an F4; don't make a habit of sustained flat turns.
Unlike most A/C; where diving on a target is preferable, the 109 is well suited to coming up from underneath it's target.
Vertical is fine; though the A/C is equally suited to rolling scissors in the horizontal plain.
If youre taking up a tater bird; set up for crossing shots and aim to hit with the first round.
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Carry gondies. Get some alt. Lead ALLOT. Hold the trigger a little longer. :D
Leave the gondies at home unless you are hunting buffs.
G6. :rock
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Leave the gondies at home unless you are hunting buffs.
G6. :rock
+1 for any plane gun amount increase...no need for the added weight in any plane, it only hinders performance. most fighters can be shot down with well placed shots from the lesser gun packs or without gondolas... aka P39Q doesnt need the extra 2 guns on its wings same with 109. P51 P47 La7 can take less guns and still kill fighters with ease. etc. This lightens the plane by 200lbs or more
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+1 for any plane gun amount increase...no need for the added weight in any plane, it only hinders performance. most fighters can be shot down with well placed shots from the lesser gun packs or without gondolas... aka P39Q doesnt need the extra 2 guns on its wings same with 109. P51 P47 La7 can take less guns and still kill fighters with ease. etc. This lightens the plane by 200lbs or more
I love taking gondolas sometimes, when I could bump into buffs, but I have no problems fighting fighters with them, sometimes the single 20mm and two 12.7mms dont always knock a plane out on a snapshot.
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Leave the gondies at home unless you are hunting buffs.
G6. :rock
I like the G2. Why not carry the extra ammo if you can. Gondies are a bit heavy, so what, deal with it. :D
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I like the G2. Why not carry the extra ammo if you can. Gondies are a bit heavy, so what, deal with it. :D
Just a boat anchor once they are empty.
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Thanks for the lesson on how to fly a Mustang,we're talking about 109s here :D
Thanks for saving me the trouble of explaining :aok
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I like the G2. Why not carry the extra ammo if you can. Gondies are a bit heavy, so what, deal with it. :D
To each his own. Just means I'll have a better chance at beating you in my bare G6. :joystick:
Admittedly, I love that black and white skin on the G2. :rock
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The vertical and torque is your friend :aok always fight going up hill :aok
Love to see a spit pull into the vertical to outrun (try) me, same with a B&Z 51 :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Love to see a spit pull into the vertical to outrun (try) me, same with a B&Z 51 :banana: :banana: :banana:
that P51D with 4 guns and 50% fuel holds alot of E over the top actually... out stalled many a 109 and spit and killed them before losing too much E to them
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There are not too many (notice that is not an all-inclusive statement) aircraft that can hang with a Kurfurst in the vert' when starting out with an equal amount of energy.
There aren't many times that a vigilant K-4 pilot can be hung (yes I said hung :o ) from his prop.
Like others here have said, throttle management in all 109's is paramount. In very rudimentary terms: nose down = throttle back, nose up = give 'er the gas.
Use the torque to your advantage, especially in the K-4. Left turn's with chopped throttle can be surprisingly tight as you are not fighting the engine.
Set trim controls somewhere on your stick as this will be a great benefit to you and will negate reaching for the keyboard at an inappropriate time and make you spill your coffee, astray, beer, etc.
Watch agent 360's films. I'd post the link if I had time to search, but it just got a little busy, here at work.
Go to offline mode with the tater plane and shoot at all types of things, from all types of angles, pulling all types of g's.
Learning the art of the tater will make most engagements end in your favor in very short order.
Do not discount the other 109's either. All are very capable. The biggest drawback is that they do not have the speed to catch most late war birds, but in a tight furball, an F model (or even an Emil starting with some energy) can be a blast and you can get some surprisingly positive results.
109's are not very forgiving aircraft, but can be quite deadly in the proper hands. :devil
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How do you fly that thing, 7 years and still cant. Got any tips?
-BigBOBCH
Go and search the help section theres a ton of stuff in there about it, please don't take that as me being cheeky.
Its just if I read another 109 thread I think I'll scream :lol its like Chinese whispers, people tack new stuff on or alter the original advice through interpretation after about 20 threads/regurgitations the majority of what is typed becomes less and less useful to anyone new reading it. :salute
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I don't have too much experience flying the 109, I prefer the f4u. But I have fought alot of the good 109 pilots, and that way I have learned how THEY fly the 109. Learned the hard way I might add.. :D I used to go after the best 109pilots in DA and tried to figure their tricks out as I fell for them.. EAce is one of them, and I've learned alot from duelling him over and over. He's one of the greater 109 sticks I have fought!
In the beginning there was alot of me being blown all over the sky by a much faster and lighter 109, later I started to notice my mistakes. As trying to follow him into the climb every time just to drain my E before he dropped down and blew me away before I could turn anywhere.. :joystick: :furious
So from what I've seen, the best way to fly the 109 is; stay fast, stay ontop and use the climb advantage to drain other planes energy off before zooming them before they reach to recover their E. At the point they start to get slow u want to allready be on your way down to get him before he gets enough E to counter your attack by a sudden move.. And after the attack zoom right back up there to give it another go if it was a miss.
The way I've learned to counter the high 109 when I'm in my hog is to watch my speed very carefully as I climb. I never go below 150, then I level off at that speed and let the 109 climb as much as he likes. Keep my eyes at him at all times, just circle around and wait for him to make his move..
When he does I try to keep my speed up and trying to go level at a 90 degree angle from him, or if he zooms down from behind I try to gently break off to one side without losing too much E. Then I am just waiting for him to get about 800 from me, he has got his speed well up and is concentrated on his aim.. Then I point my wing at him to give him less plane surface to aim for and zoom up, his speed will most likely be too high to follow and he will hopefully miss his shot. Then I roll over as he passes behind me and pull back so I can give him a well placed burst before he gets out of guns reach on his zoom back up.. If I time it well I can get some damage to him so his next attempt will not be as easy. If I time this move perfect so his pass gets close I might get a killshot right there also.
I think my advice is to just team up with a really good 109 stick, and just observe him fighting from a distance or from the passenger seat. Save the film for later views, and observe things like speed, angles of attack, trottlework and flaps usage if ever that slow. And also duel that same stick no less than 10 sorties to manage to point out what mistakes you tend to do over and over, if any.. But main keywords to success in a 109 is speed and energy I think. :aok
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Watch agent 360's films. I'd post the link if I had time to search, but it just got a little busy, here at work.
excellent advice right here and below is the link to download those
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261486.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,261486.0.html)
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One of the funniest things I read about 109 tips is to keep it fast, only fast, BNZ, vert only, etc....
And then the same examples always compare it to P-51s and such.
The funny part? It will easily out-turn these planes 6 ways from sunday. If you run across a nimble plane then staying fast and using vert works well (spits, Ki, zekes, even some moderately manuverable ones too). If you run across a number of the faster planes: P-51, tempest, P-47, 190D, etc... You'll be much more manuverable in the turns than all of them.
So pick your fights based on your oponent, but don't be afraid to turn these babies.
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anybody got some time to give some training in the TA? The 109 sounds like it might be fun...
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You steal this from chalenges handbook on flying?
:rofl
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anybody got some time to give some training in the TA? The 109 sounds like it might be fun...
:snicker:
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anybody got some time to give some training in the TA? The 109 sounds like it might be fun...
nahhhh you still need practice in that italian job :devil
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In very rudimentary terms: nose down = throttle back, nose up = give 'er the gas.
109 throttle control is indeed a very interesting topic with many different views, I tend to like the opposite of the nose down throttle back, nose up giver gas belief...... I've found alot of 109 wingover and vertical reversal type of moves require very slow speeds .... in a fight use the throttle on the downside to gain e and cut the throttle as you climb ( very carefully ) till you reach the top and then slam her over with a burst of torque and a hint of flaps (109 K4/ G14 shine here). Watch some film of the best 109 sticks that you've lost fights to (sunsfan, grizz, agent, creton, killn, messiah, violator,ardy, krup etc etc come to mind) and ususally they are doing like 70mph when they scoot it over and blast you. The gravity centric throttle idea works well in a rolling scissor fight as well....where many times the win or loss is the pilot who can get slower and exempt better throttle control to create the maximum rolls around you. Using gravity as a big arse brake is a good idea in certain situations....
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anybody got some time to give some training in the TA? The 109 sounds like it might be fun...
HAHA! He said "Might" :rofl :D
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. The gravity centric throttle idea works well in a rolling scissor fight as well....where many times the win or loss is the pilot who decided to roll a Ki84 .
silly me fixed
<G> :rofl
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anybody got some time to give some training in the TA? The 109 sounds like it might be fun...
n00b :rolleyes:
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I learn to fite the 109 by flying against agent. think he's the best in it follow him around watch him.
Semp
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I learn to fite the 109 by flying against agent. think he's the best in it follow him around watch him.
Semp
So you auger a lot? :noid :rofl
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To be honest if he's around I kindda stay away from 109's. Otherwise they're fun to fly against same as niki's.
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So you auger a lot? :noid :rofl
lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ;)...
your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit! :rock
by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move ;)
by the way polar, no more 'I like turtles' in your avatar... shame.. the turtles are pissed.
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LOL!
:salute 11
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I really hate to break up the party but there is a certain Pee-38 driver who is already chair of the Auger Club.
Might want to check with him first to avoid any legal unpleasantness.
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I'll offer what little I know and what less I can execute. I'm still slightly unfavorable k/d in this bird but love the F and G's (all - but especially the g-14 with the Erla Haube hood and the 14 and 6 with the improved 6 view) for their nice balance of climb, turn, accel, and air-to-air weapons loads.
The 109 has a great climb rate and wicked compressibility issues on the way down at near-500. Manual trim can save you on the pullout. Offensively, it's best to spiral down onto someone's 6 or crossing from above. You can follow and kill or snapshot this way. Roll rate is NOT great like in the 190 but still is good enough, provided you keep your speed reasonable, you can vector fire onto a turnbird from above. Indeed, using this practice, you might as well take the gondos - just don't lose the E advantage because the gondos mean compromised climb and turn.
Speaking of climb and turn, most of the American birds can be easily outclimbed, dependent on initial e-state. The Spit, however, is a real danger in rope attempts. Also, it pays to have a good reversal if you go roping. That's why I don't do it that much - my "torque bunt" still requires a lot of attention. Flat-turning, at least without gondos, is pretty good to the left.
One evasive tactic I've used, with some success: the climbing spiral (with flaps) on the verge of stall. It bleeds your opponent, should he try to follow, of energy that he will not recover as easily as you do in your 109.
Btw, I like the 20's. Grizz is not a mere human, nor are the other 109 taterjocks. I can't hit stuff with that loopy 30 - except for bombers. There is little more beautiful than seeing a single or double tap relieve a bomber of its wing. Generally, though, I'll take the gondos, dive in a slicing attack and kick rudder a bit at 600-400 yards. It is often possible to bring down more than one bomber on a pass in this way.
The 109 doesn't take damage all that well, though, notably, the engine will run oiled long enough to get you back to base. Range is weak, also, but that hardly matters here. Speed is good in the late model 109s and usually offers the opportunity to run or catch.
All in all, I call it my aspirational bird. It's nowhere as easy as, for example, the Spit VIII, but offers, for some reason, more reward and, ultimately, I think, more low-speed craziness to explore (like the reversal or climbing at 100mph on thr edge of stall). That's my student's eval - there are certainly better 109 pilots out there than I but I feel a natural affinity for it that I don't get in anything else.
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Very good write up PJ.
I would add, try the following 'exercises' off line to get the feel for it. Unlike the P51, the 109, due to its slats, is still very controllable while it buffets on the edge of a stall. Also, using a little rudder you can 'wing walk' it, to get that last little bit of turn out of it, by using the rudder to prevent a wing tip drop and stall.
So, the exercises..
1)take the plane up to 10k, and drop to full flaps, and go into a flat turn and hold it for as long as you can. Pull back as hard as you can while still not stalling. Let it shake like crazy, do what ever it takes but keep it turning. Keep practicing this until you can hold it forever turning and turning while it shakes like crazy.
2) Practice doing steep barrel rolls when your airspeed is under 130 mph, with your flaps out. Get used to being able to pull the plane into the vert, even as its shaking like crazy.
3) Fly through the hangers, and after each pass, bring the nose up until its at a 90 degree angle. Then hold it there for as long as possible. HINT, back off the throttle and give some rudder once the airspeed becomes slow. Once the plane finally pitches over, dive down and go through the hanger again and repeat.
As boring as it may sound, it will quickly give you the 'feel' of the 109.
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Very good write up PJ.
I would add, try the following 'exercises' off line to get the feel for it. Unlike the P51, the 109, due to its slats, is still very controllable while it buffets on the edge of a stall. Also, using a little rudder you can 'wing walk' it, to get that last little bit of turn out of it, by using the rudder to prevent a wing tip drop and stall.
So, the exercises..
1)take the plane up to 10k, and drop to full flaps, and go into a flat turn and hold it for as long as you can. Pull back as hard as you can while still not stalling. Let it shake like crazy, do what ever it takes but keep it turning. Keep practicing this until you can hold it forever turning and turning while it shakes like crazy.
2) Practice doing steep barrel rolls when your airspeed is under 130 mph, with your flaps out. Get used to being able to pull the plane into the vert, even as its shaking like crazy.
3) Fly through the hangers, and after each pass, bring the nose up until its at a 90 degree angle. Then hold it there for as long as possible. HINT, back off the throttle and give some rudder once the airspeed becomes slow. Once the plane finally pitches over, dive down and go through the hanger again and repeat.
As boring as it may sound, it will quickly give you the 'feel' of the 109.
It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?
3. no question...
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lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ;)...
your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit! :rock
by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move ;)
Oh man, I must already be a member of your league without even knowing it Ardy...
How many times have I crashed out of one of our fights?
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Oh man, I must already be a member of your league without even knowing it Ardy...
How many times have I crashed out of one of our fights?
I think augering must be part of 109'ing - or maybe just AH'ing. It's not like I haven't managed it in other AC.
I had a zero-alt k-key pullout the other day, though, and was as proud of myself as if I'd just crapped out Nike of Samothrace. It's a decent evasive, too, since the wise pilot will think he's about to get a prox. kill and pull off - and the fool might just auger behind you.
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It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?
3. no question...
1. Full throttle. Just leave it there at first. Then, once you get the feel for it, try and repeat the exercise at different throttle settings.
2. yeah, at 130 bank to the right, pull up, then go vert until you almost can't anymore, roll left, drop the nose and slide down the side of the barrel. Pretend that there is a plane in the middle of the barrel and your trying to turn around it's 3-9 line.
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It doesn't sound boring but I have a question or two...
1. what should I be doing with my throttle while turning flat? I'm assuming upthrottling to max...
2. pull vert then start the roll from 130mph?
I have never seen you fly and you might be very skilled, I'm not sure, but the important step the majority of players skip while pondering the ins and out of a new aircraft is learning ACM and sharpening those maneuvers first. Once you have those tools in your toolbox, switching planes becomes a much easier task. You can learn a plane's advantages and nuances by simply flying it.
With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept. Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6. Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds. Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.
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With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept. Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6. Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds. Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.
If I remember correctly, Grizz had created a great thread about how to do it in the help section.
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If I remember correctly, Grizz had created a great thread about how to do it in the help section.
Yeah that showed how to do it in a certain situation. But there are also ways to do it in the MA, like when a guy never sees you coming. Slashing in from 7-8 o clock taking one chance at 100yds and buzzing by I prefer much versus setting up on him at 6oclock. If he sees me and breaks my gun solution is spoiled. There's also a much less likely chance he will see me from 7-8 o clock slash for two reasons. One, most likely he will have only checked his dead 6 for bogies and for two, his allies might not realize I am slashing for him and won't give him a check 6. If I'm coming dead 6, he's much more likely to break.
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With the 109 however, you do have to learn an entirely different way of shooting at the enemy which can prove challenging if you don't understand the concept. Basically, you never want to 'bleed' onto an enemies 6 and shoot at him from dead 6. Whenever you point your nose for guns, you want to point at a collision intersection point where he will hopefully fly right in front of your guns at 100-150 yds. Whenever I set up a gun solution, the gun solution is never sustainable, it comes and goes in the blink of an eye and you have to fire on time and on line the first time.
Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?
Getting down in the dirt seems to be a terminal situation whereas picking from above seems entirely surviveable - and satisfying, but also trickier. We could say that generally, I think. Why is the pick so important for the 109? Should I always be fighting down?
I'm not all that skilled but I'm a good learner and feel like I'm making decent progress, given how much time I have for this.
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Then comes the concept of sliding your head over for better visibility on these types of slashing shots so you don't have to worry about your airframes obstructing your view at gun solution.
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Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?
The reason dead 6 is so poor is for a few reasons. I have already mentioned a couple. It is also very difficult to hit him. You are shooting arcing taters at a very thin surface area and if you miss with the first couple bursts, he will see the bursts in his front window, and he is breaking HARD. Once he breaks with you 200-400 yds on his tail, it is IMPOSSIBLE to regain gun solution. You can't get your nose out far enough in front of his break to hit him. It's not even worth trying.
Coming from a slash angle, you are still shooting at a skinny section of his plane, but assuming you line it up in the Z direction(up and down), you get the opportunity to shoot at him from Nose all the way to tail, which is a nice thick line to try to connect with. Yes you only get one chance at a slash angle but lets be honest, you need to be a sharp shooter in a K4 with only 65 rounds so if you can't make these shots with some reasonable success there's no point in flying it, as you are only going to be getting 1-2 kills/sortie.
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Well, you are the man on this matter. I've honestly gotten kills both ways with the beast but suspect the reason for the inferiority of the bleed and 6 has to do with longer-term (like surviving the sortie) survival, yes?
Getting down in the dirt seems to be a terminal situation whereas picking from above seems entirely surviveable - and satisfying, but also trickier. We could say that generally, I think. Why is the pick so important for the 109? Should I always be fighting down?
I'm not all that skilled but I'm a good learner and feel like I'm making decent progress, given how much time I have for this.
I don't come close to Grizz's skill but I find that the easiest shots with the taters are crossing shots... In these types of shots the other guy will give you full profile of his plane and you can use the cockpit frame bars as a means of when to shoot (or I do atleast). The simplest form is to force a vert reversal on the guy as he dives down on you. All you need to do is pull up, roll and boom. Most sticks will pull up to follow you, and they will pull up in front of you. At the top, you can use your rudder to hold the nose of your plane there and almost hang, waiting to setup the perfect solution as the other guy pulls up in front of you.
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The reason dead 6 is so poor is for a few reasons. I have already mentioned a couple. It is also very difficult to hit him. You are shooting arcing taters at a very thin surface area and if you miss with the first couple bursts, he will see the bursts in his front window, and he is breaking HARD.
Ah, it starts to make more sense. I don't use the tater gun. I can't hit with that thing unless I'm arcing in on a bomber. As a rule, I prefer the G-14 with the 20 - or possibly 3. Yes, I recognize the drawbacks of the gondos but they're great for BnZ or for bomber killing. It's just really bad to get caught low and/or slow with them.
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Ah, it starts to make more sense. I don't use the tater gun. I can't hit with that thing unless I'm arcing in on a bomber. As a rule, I prefer the G-14 with the 20 - or possibly 3. Yes, I recognize the drawbacks of the gondos but they're great for BnZ or for bomber killing. It's just really bad to get caught low and/or slow with them.
The key is learning that you have the ability to control how close an enemy flies through your guns. Once you learn how to create and exploit these incredibly close crossing angles, you will start to see the applicability of the 30mms. Whenever you try to set up a nice crossing shot and it turns out to only be 300yds on the cross, ask yourself if you could have gotten that bogey in closer and how could you do that. Getting your nose out as far as you can is the general rule of thumb for bringing him in close. I like to use the flag pole concept as a training point. Imagine a very long flag pole extending out of your enemies nose, say 2-3 times the length of the aircraft. If you track that point in space at all times, he will draw in very close and you will be lined up with him also.
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The key is learning that you have the ability to control how close an enemy flies through your guns. Once you learn how to create and exploit these incredibly close crossing angles, you will start to see the applicability of the 30mms. Whenever you try to set up a nice crossing shot and it turns out to only be 300yds on the cross, ask yourself if you could have gotten that bogey in closer and how could you do that. Getting your nose out as far as you can is the general rule of thumb for bringing him in close. I like to use the flag pole concept as a training point. Imagine a very long flag pole extending out of your enemies nose, say 2-3 times the length of the aircraft. If you track that point in space at all times, he will draw in very close and you will be lined up with him also.
I recall two instances of unwittingly doing such a thing in a K-4. In both cases, I heard the explosion and saw the kill award without being able to see the actual kill. Doing that systematically has got to be tough. OTOH, I roped a Mossie in one not too long ago. It was relatively easy to close on him after the reversal and blow his wing off. He'd already given up any chance, though, and, honestly, what kind of Mossie pilot follows a K-4 on a steep climb?
Generally, with the K-4, I fire and wonder where the hell the shell went. Not so with 3x 20's banging away - or even 1. But, I'll try your 2-3 length thing. I still enjoy flying the k-4 and it's a damn good escape pod, should I screw things up (highly likely). It's also a fine bomber killer and doesn't run out of puff like the G-14 does up there.
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Generally, with the K-4, I fire and wonder where the hell the shell went. Not so with 3x 20's banging away - or even 1. But, I'll try your 2-3 length thing. I still enjoy flying the k-4 and it's a damn good escape pod, should I screw things up (highly likely). It's also a fine bomber killer and doesn't run out of puff like the G-14 does up there.
If you hit with the bbs and not the tater, it's a very strong indicator that you undershot which I like to refer to as the cardinal sin of tatering.
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lol Agent is the king of auger and maybe I'm the duke, well as warhed says, I'm auger123 ;)...
your not flying aggressively enough if you don't auger from time to time... you have unlimited lives, so push that baby to the limit! :rock
by the way, who wants to join my auger league? 10 points for the kill shot and auger move ;)
by the way polar, no more 'I like turtles' in your avatar... shame.. the turtles are pissed.
I think augering must be part of 109'ing - or maybe just AH'ing. It's not like I haven't managed it in other AC.
I had a zero-alt k-key pullout the other day, though, and was as proud of myself as if I'd just crapped out Nike of Samothrace. It's a decent evasive, too, since the wise pilot will think he's about to get a prox. kill and pull off - and the fool might just auger behind you.
Easy boys, your starting to work our side of the street. ;)
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Only thing you need to know about manual trim is when you're diving and you can't pull up, all you need to know is where your elevator up trim is at !