Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lilsquid on June 01, 2010, 06:42:34 PM
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Some know how i fly in aces high. Today i went throught the CAF airchives and discovered i am the great great grandson to 2 twins who were the number 2 and # 3 men in the original Thunderbirds Squadron flying in the late 1940's. the first plane they used was the p-47 Which was my favorite plane and i could do a lot in. Then moved on the p-80's and so on to the jets they fly today. So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII.
Note: if u do not think I'm telling the truth look up thunderbirds original members there will be twins who last names are Pattillo. My last name is pattillo and we traced in the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) archives all the way to members in my family.
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Some know how i fly in aces high. Today i went thought the CAF airchives and discovered i am the great great grandson to 2 twins who were the number 2 and # 3 men in the original Thunderbirds Squadron flying in the late 1940's. the first plane they used was the p-47 Which was my favorite plane and i could do a lot in. Then moved on the p-80's and so on to the jets they fly today. So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII.
Note: if u do not think I'm telling the truth look up thunderbirds original members there will be twins who last names are Pattillo. My last name is pattillo and we traced in the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) archives all the way to members in my family.
Yes we know of Bill and Buck but the Tbirds were formed in 1953 and the first birds were F-80 then moved to the f-86. Besides, Genetics have nothing to do with it
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Yes we know of Bill and Buck but the Tbirds were formed in 1953 and the first birds were F-80 then moved to the f-86. Besides, Genetics have nothing to do with it
I disagree. The gene pool is a very delicate thing. Your DNA has traces to the first man. It is very possible that you can inherit genes from your great great relatives. You See genes get carried from genoration to genoration.You dont know it but you will allways have a connection in your gene pool to your ancestors. It is very possible that i inherited genes from them.
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Apparently, you didn't inherit spelling genes from generations past. :D
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Apparently, you didn't inherit spelling genes from generations past. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl... :furious
were pilots we not teachers dot and nope! :lol
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My grandfather flew C-141's and KC-97s, and O-2's in the 'Nam era, but he was also a great AH pilot back in '67. I guess the genes didn't get passed down though. :(
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The first Thunderbirds show was in 1953 flying the F-86G Thunderjet, the Thunderbirds never flew P-47's. Your relatives were picked because of the time they spent flying with the Sky Blazers in Europe in the late '40s flying P-80Bs. On a side note, your relatives also didn't fly the P-47s as both flew P-51s during the war with the 8th AF's 352nd Fighter Group and then P-80s after the war with the 36th Wing.
It's cool that you have such relatives in your family tree but not to be mean or anything but I think it's safe to say that the only 'gene' you inherited from them was a love of aviation.
ack-ack
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First off this would be better in the Oclub but by me saying that I broke a rule....sry Skuz!
Secondly you may have the Genes of your relatives but that in no way means you have the hours of training that they went through,So I say it must be skill on your part,that's the only explanation,because as far as I know no human has the instinct to fly......... :rofl
:salute
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The first Thunderbirds show was in 1953 flying the F-86G Thunderjet, the Thunderbirds never flew P-47's. Your relatives were picked because of the time they spent flying with the Sky Blazers in Europe in the late '40s flying P-80Bs. On a side note, your relatives also didn't fly the P-47s as both flew P-51s during the war with the 8th AF's 352nd Fighter Group and then P-80s after the war with the 36th Wing.
It's cool that you have such relatives in your family tree but not to be mean or anything but I think it's safe to say that the only 'gene' you inherited from them was a love of aviation.
ack-ack
No offense but the CAF Archives show them in p-47's ack-ack they moved to p-80's after the war i have pictures of them in p-47's if someone will help me by telling me how to post pictures on here ill show you them
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Get a free account on somewhere like Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com), you'll be able to upload photos to there, then use the link they give you in here.
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Get a free account on somewhere like Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com), you'll be able to upload photos to there, then use the link they give you in here.
i would rather post them on the actual blog
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i would rather post them on the actual blog
You can, if you click the photo icon when typing a message (second row of icons, below the bold button) you'll get brackets [img ] [ /img], insert the URL between those brackets. Most sites (including photobucket) will give you that code directly.
It shows up as a code in the text box but will show up as a picture in the BBS.
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Things like hand eye coordination, good reflexes, and timing are the most important 'talents' needed to be uber at this game.
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(http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues_pics/buck_pattillo.jpg)
Bill and Buck. Bill is the one in the pilots seat of the P-47
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Sx6VSCxiN1I/AAAAAAAALtE/OeY7VUVAaok/s400/11.bmp)
Theses are them before they died be reunited wiht the p-51' they flew after they started in the p-47's
I Apologize Ack-Ack- They started in 47's then were recalled to the 51 then to p-80's
my Bad :salute
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Didn't see your modify about the second pic.
Is that first one a 47? The canopy looks like a 51, but I'm not sure.
Another picture:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Sx6UorntBNI/AAAAAAAALr0/XqNotD6cEnk/s1600/1.bmp)
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Didn't see your modify about the second pic.
Is that first one a 47? The canopy looks like a 51, but I'm not sure.
Another picture:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Sx6UorntBNI/AAAAAAAALr0/XqNotD6cEnk/s1600/1.bmp)
Yes its a 47 and your pic is when they were reunited with their warbirds
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No offense but the CAF Archives show them in p-47's ack-ack they moved to p-80's after the war i have pictures of them in p-47's if someone will help me by telling me how to post pictures on here ill show you them
Here is a war time picture of both of your relatives.
(http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues_pics/bill_pattillo.jpg)
These are pictures of the P-51Ds they flew.
“Little Rebel”
(http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues_pics/little_rebel.jpg)
Here is another picture of the P-51D "Little Rebel"
(http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues_pics/pattillo_twins.jpg)
"Sweet and Lovely"
(http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues_pics/sweet_lovely.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/jfloren/08.jpg)
(http://www.starduststudios.com/Buck_and_Bill_Pattillo-w.jpg)
Looking further, the CAF archives were correct, they did fly P-47s for a short time while stateside after the war for the 54th Fighter Wing of the Georgia Air National Guard while both were attending engineering school at Georgia Institute of Technology. Both were recalled to active service and flew Mustangs again with the 31st FG and then assigned to the 36th Fighter Group in Germany to fly the P-80s.
Both were really lucky to spend most of their career together in the same units.
Here are some links you can find more information about your relatives.
Sky Blazers (http://vbd08.forumotion.net/vsb-public-f1/the-usaf-sky-blazers-history-t38.htm)
Lt. Gen. Charles C. "Buck" Pattillo (http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues/buck_patillo.html)
Maj. Gen. Cuthbert A. "Bill" Pattillo (http://www.highironillustrations.com/rogues/bill_patillo.html)
ack-ack
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Yes its a 47 and your pic is when they were reunited with their warbirds
It is a P51, not a P47.
Where they both aces as well?(pictures look like it)
Who cares about the TBirds in all honesty, twins that where WW2 aces. Is there any other example of that?
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It is a P51, not a P47.
Where they both aces as well?(pictures look like it)
Who cares about the TBirds in all honesty, twins that where WW2 aces. Is there any other example of that?
i care, and not that i know of...
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So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII
No
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Mustang... yummies.
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So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII.
Im related to Ed White, and you dont see me blowing up on the runway........Oh wait, yes you do.
And i wouldnt proclaim on AH BBS that I am a "Skilled pilot" some will ALWAYS disagree.
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It's ignorant to state that skills are genetic. Predispositions, perhaps the DNA tells your brain to form in such a way that it processes 3d spacial logic better, but to translate that into saying "I have good SA, it's genetic" is idiotic.
The genes just build the body and perhaps give it predispositions. It's how you use it, what you've learned, and your experiences as a whole that make the person and the skills. If you think otherwise you've been watching too many Sci-Fi or fantasy movies. Keep in mind people used to eat the brains of their enemies in the hopes of gaining their skills. That's also wrong.
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Hereditary...? If you were doing the SAME thing they were doing and exhibited the same skill set then Id go for the Hereditary...
The best I can tell you is My Daughter was 13 last year...Her and I went ELK hunting..I am considered a very good shot hunting...I drooped my BULL ELK at 407 yards on the run...a trot really. 5 min later she shot her BULL ELK at 150 yards while it was on a Trot also. She had iron sights I had a scope..I believe that is Hereditary. Out of all my 4 kids shes the most like me. Same interests, mechanics, fishing, hunting, etc.
KAM
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Referring to your original question though, there are no "good pilot" genes. Although things like reaction time, dexterity, or endurance are genetic traits that could effect your piloting ability, this is a game. An AH dogfight does not put the physical stress any actual dogfight would. I would say the overlap is very little and genetic skill is an insignificant variable in this game.
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Buck and Bill Pattillo flew P47's with the 54th Fighter Group of the Georgia National Guard after they were released from active duty in 1945 and were attending school. They were recalled to active duty in 1948 as P51 pilots and were assigned to the 31st Fighter Group in Albany, Georgia. After that they were assigned together flying P80's with the 36th Fighter Group in Furstenfeldbruck, Germany where they assisted in forming the Skyblazers and flew P80's and F84's. In 1953 they were assigned to Luke Air Force Base, Arizona where they helped form the original Thunderbirds.
Oh, you can meet both? or just one? of your great-great grandfathers they live in Tampa, Florida as of January 2010
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Physical skill sets are 100% genetic gentlemen...some skills are passed down and some are not but to say that specific physical skill sets are not genetic is uninformed.
How many baseball players are third generation pros? Football? yep...and for the coup de gras...guess what a Congressional Medal of Honor winner receives other than flying anywhere for free for his lifetime? Any guesses? HIS CHILDREN ARE GRANTED CONGRESSIONAL APPOINTMENTS TO ANY MILITARY ACADEMY OF THEIR CHOICE. Now, while being heroic is not specifically a "skill" it is a character trait and that character trait is recognized as possibly being "passed from generation to generation"....is character, or lack thereof, a genetic trait or environmental? The skill set that IS applicable to about 99% of the CMH winners is a calm, cool, head under life-taking circumstances WHILE acting or giving orders that saved a ton of lives and that, my friends, is a skill. Even falling on a grenade required the forethought and the critical decision making process that becomes selfless...it may appear to be "reaction" or instinct but you and I know different...they knew they were going to die to save someone else and they made that decision.
Hand-eye coordination is genetic....great vision....genetic....my bet is you will find a significant amount of information regarding military genetic studies; and physical skills and flying, naysayers, is a specific set of skills....including taking G's. Im sure there are folks that have such great hand-eye skills they can play handball with the curb but put them in a high-performance aircraft and they will blow chunks everytime you turn it.
Good SA comes from experience....but if you can't fly the plane well...who cares how good your SA is? The tools to have good SA ARE genetic...excellent vision, excellent spacial aperception, excellent depth perception....those are God given gifts.
I am not saying that EVERY physical skill is passed on to heirs....I am saying its biologically impossible not to pass some. Hey, its how human genes work men and if you deny that, well, you need to go back to school.
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How many baseball players are third generation pros?
Yeah, and the fact they were totally surrounded by intelligent people from birth, telling them every little detail about how to swing a bat or throw a ball since they were born, and groomed from birth to be good at something, has nothing to do with it, right?
Believing genetics control everything is foolish. You take an orphaned chinese kid and you raise it in America and what do you get?
An American that looks Chinese. They don't grow up to pledge aliegence to the communist flag in the morning unless they're taught to. They don't grow up liking noodlies and kung pao chicken. If they are surrounded by these things from birth, told by their parents "This is good" then maybe, but physical predispositions only extend so far as how you use them.
Or do you also believe that red heads are all slovenly drunks, the devils mark, and the sign of lowly Irish lineage?
Puh-LEASE.... :rolleyes:
P.S. Before I get flamed, I'm pointing out some very negative stereotypes, not my own personal beliefs about redheads. Substitute any racist stereotype to suit your preference here.
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EPIGENETCS...look it up..can have an impact on generational genetic lines.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/epigenetics/
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eugenics.
Look it up.
It scared (scares?) multiple generations.
Unless you believe that blacks are genetically predisposed to be criminals? Or you think that jews are greedy? Or you think that the Polish are genetically stupid, or the French genetically cowardly.
Racism takes a lot of forms. A lot of them are related to genetics, lineage, and ignorance.
P.S. Epigenetics has nothing to do with inheriting good piloting skills (or any learned abilities) as this topic was suggesting.
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Im sure you're a great guy Krusty but you are having some trouble with your argument...just because you have a good teacher and a great environment doesn't guarantee you ability. Now, look at all the pros that had kids that DIDN'T make it....don't argue it that way because you'll lose.
I never said that genetics control everything did I? Read it again and your example of the Chinese is E N V I R O N M E N T A L bro...not genetic...all of your examples are environmental. You have to be predisposed with the necessary skills and that is genetic.
The redhair issue is a generalization, no different than native Americans being drunks with long black hair....its environmental not genetic and no, I don't believe that Irish are drunks...I do believe that the Irish are genetically pre-disposed to have RED HAIR...which is true...them drinking a lot? Hell, that's their environment....everyone knows why God created liquor....so the Irish wouldn't rule the world!
Changeup
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eugenics.
Look it up.
It scared (scares?) multiple generations.
Unless you believe that blacks are genetically predisposed to be criminals? Or you think that jews are greedy? Or you think that the Polish are genetically stupid, or the French genetically cowardly.
Racism takes a lot of forms. A lot of them are related to genetics, lineage, and ignorance.
But virtually all rascism is ENVIRONMENTAL...parents talking like idiots, uncles and aunts showing hatred...come on...use your head on this.
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Im sure you're a great guy Krusty but you are having some trouble with your argument...just because you have a good teacher and a great environment doesn't guarantee you ability. Now, look at all the pros that had kids that DIDN'T make it....don't argue it that way because you'll lose.
I never said that genetics control everything did I? Read it again and your example of the Chinese is E N V I R O N M E N T A L bro...not genetic...all of your examples are environmental. You have to be predisposed with the necessary skills and that is genetic.
The redhair issue is a generalization, no different than native Americans being drunks with long black hair....its environmental not genetic and no, I don't believe that Irish are drunks...I do believe that the Irish are genetically pre-disposed to have RED HAIR...which is true...them drinking a lot? Hell, that's their environment....everyone knows why God created liquor....so the Irish wouldn't rule the world!
Changeup
Just about totally off topic here, but my best friend in the entire world is 3/4 Native American (I guess Indian is offensive to some people, but they use it to describe themselves all the time) and he has blond hair.
Ironically, the part of him that isn't Indian is Irish.
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Changeup, you keep saying skills are genetic. They are not.
Your brain may be able to handle the mathematical side of logic better because GENETICALLY you have a slightly larger frontal lobe (or whatever), but this does not translate into SKILLS you inherit from your genes. This means you can LEARN skills, it means you may be good at them once you grasp them, but that doesn't mean you can skip the learning.
"Oh yeah, my father was a 747 pilot. I've never been in a plane before, but let's take this baby up. All 200 passengers strapped in?"
^-- you see how absurd that would be?
All skills are environmental. You're saying they're genetic. Physical characteristics are genetic. Learned abilities are not.
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Things like hand eye coordination, good reflexes, and timing are the most important 'talents' needed to be uber at this game.
agreed. When I'm dogfighting, I don't concisouly think about the manuvers I use, I see that I'm in a good rolling plane with a spit on me, and I start flying scissors. Or I see that I'm in a P-40 with a Ki-84 on me, so I nose over.
Once the manuvers are learned, they can be used without concious thought (for me anyway). I got a PM about my lift vector after a fight. The guy said I could have got him if I had put my lift vector on him in the rolling scissors; I didn't know I had started the manuver, but when I checked the film, sure enough, I had used rolling scissors.
Point is that reflexes, timing, and hand I coordination are the most important things to have in AH2. All of which are things you can't inherit from your ancestors.
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Krusty...bro....you keep changing your argument. Flying a 747 takes experience yes and flying transport aircraft in a non-combat environment is quite a bit different than flying high-requirement fighter aircraft in a threatening environment. Look...maybe the problem is our base beliefs....you believe that anyone can "learn" to fly a fighter aircraft right? I believe that anyone can learn to fly one as well...agreed?
Now, a person that has better vision (can you learn to have better vision? Please God, don't say yes), faster reflexes is going to KILL the other guy every time with everything else being equal.
Boxers have fast hands...but some start out in life with NATURALLY FAST HANDS...the ones that don't almost always become POWER hitters, not repetition hitters....do you know why?? Because power can be achieved through strength conditioning but speed development has a point of diminishing marginal return. Sugar Ray Leonard? Always beat Hearns, Hagler and Duran...why, faster hands....all of them had the same experience, same attitude etc. I have no idea if Sugar Ray got his quickness from his dad or his mom or his uncle but he didnt develop it because you can only go so far with hand quickness...then you move to something you can control which is strength.
Why doesnt everyone make it through flight school Krusty? If you got that far in the military, surely they can "teach" you the skills and you have already shown the desire? Using your argument, the military should give personality tests to see if someone wants it bad enough to make it through the training evolutions.
What about the SEAL program? Can't they teach you to be tough mentally and physically? Why is the attrition rate 88% in BUD/S? I mean come on...generally the candidates have already been vetted and have been in the Navy for 2 years so lets just TEACH them to be SEALS....
You know better than that
Changeup
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You can inherit physical characteristics from your ancestors: Hair color, eye color, facial features, height, and even your mussle type (fast or slow twitch).
I suppose you can aruge that you can inherit personality to some degree, though I feel that is at least partially an enviornmental thing, while genetics may give a push or a nudge here and there.
But what you CAN'T inherit is learned skills: Math, science, football, etc. It CAN'T be done. Most of the people in my family for the past 3 generations suck at math. My grandmother on my mothers side didn't even go to college, and yet I understand problems that completely baffle my peers, and even my math teacher from 2 years ago (he is a friend of my family).
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Nemesis....those things in your quote box are genetic bro with the exception of timing...that's experience and a great computer :D...thanks for helping me with my point.
Changeup
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You can inherit physical characteristics from your ancestors: Hair color, eye color, facial features, height, and even your mussle type (fast or slow twitch).
I suppose you can aruge that you can inherit personality to some degree, though I feel that is at least partially an enviornmental thing, while genetics may give a push or a nudge here and there.
But what you CAN'T inherit is learned skills: Math, science, football, etc. It CAN'T be done. Most of the people in my family for the past 3 generations suck at math. My grandmother on my mothers side didn't even go to college, and yet I understand problems that completely baffle my peers, and even my math teacher from 2 years ago (he is a friend of my family).
Oh wow....does slow twitch muscle help or hurt with reflex manuevers? What about eyesight? Some people see in as low as 45 fps...most see in 60 fps...dogs see in 75 fps...which means that if you had the eyesight of a dog, you would recognize the opponents aircraft turning sooner than someone with 45 fps recognition....who's the better fighter pilot bro? the 60 fps person or the 45? Teach them to have better vision....I don't think you can do it.
Changeup
PS - I never said that learning was genetic....go back and read my posts. I said physical skills....stay on the subject.
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I think hes right. My grandfather was a vacuum salesman and I suck at everything!
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I think the only flying gene you aquired was the "flying out of the truck" gene and you got that one from your brother.
:noid
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Changeup, you have a couple of things wrong. Physical traits are generally inherited, and though rare can be influenced by outside factors. Exposure to heavy metals in the womb can nullify any inherited genetic traits, as can exposure to chemicals, gases etc... Also in order for your examples of athletes and their offspring, you forget that the mother has to have similar traits in order for the examples you use to be true by genetics alone...otherwise social environment is the dominating factor. Obviously a child with a birth defect will not be able to follow in it's parents footsteps, but then neither would a child of star athletes if that child was never exposed to the training that builds the necessary skills.
Good hand to eye coordination can be an inherited trait but it can also be learned. Through training and repetitive motion, people build muscle memory. Their brains memorize the motion that the eyes see, then register that to the nervous system and tells the body what muscles to activate in response to that input. The more times that motion is repeated the faster the response can get assuming nothing else is thrown in the mix. Take a look at Bruce Lee, nothing particularly outstanding in his genetics or upbringing. He became what he was as an adult by constant repetitive training and understanding of his body.
The SEAL program pushes the mental and physical limits of individuals to extremes beyond basic training, but it cannot overcome the deep rooted fight or flight instincts that people have. When those people (Navy and Marines) enter the program they all know that at any time they have the choice to stop training. The only way they could lower the the atrition rate would be to remove that choice, then only the most resilient would enter the program to begin with and the starting number of candidates would be much lower.
What you're seeing on television, is not the extent of what really happens in the SEAL program. There are a lot of reasons for the atrition rate and injuries account for a large portion of it.
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I disagree. The gene pool is a very delicate thing. Your DNA has traces to the first man. It is very possible that you can inherit genes from your great great relatives. You See genes get carried from genoration to genoration.You dont know it but you will allways have a connection in your gene pool to your ancestors. It is very possible that i inherited genes from them.
But you only inherit half from each parent, so it dilutes each generation, and the only great, great relatives you would inherit from would be direct ancestors. (not aunts and uncles, cousins, etc.....)
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What you are proposing is something that has been discredited for large organisms such as ourselves, see Lamarckism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism). There is debate about the possibility of this in micro-organisms.
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But you only inherit half from each parent, so it dilutes each generation, and the only great, great relatives you would inherit from would be direct ancestors. (not aunts and uncles, cousins, etc.....)
ROFL...I thank you for bringing that up. I didn't want to be the one to break it to him but, unless his great great grandparents were really into sharing...everything.
i am the great great grandson to 2 twins
Even then, the probability of being a direct decendant of both twins? Twins is always two right? Or does he mean two sets of twins married each other? :headscratch:
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Changeup, you have a couple of things wrong. Physical traits are generally inherited, and though rare can be influenced by outside factors. Exposure to heavy metals in the womb can nullify any inherited genetic traits, as can exposure to chemicals, gases etc... Also in order for your examples of athletes and their offspring, you forget that the mother has to have similar traits in order for the examples you use to be true by genetics alone...otherwise social environment is the dominating factor. Obviously a child with a birth defect will not be able to follow in it's parents footsteps, but then neither would a child of star athletes if that child was never exposed to the training that builds the necessary skills.
You have supported what I wrote. Some are passed and some are not. All things being equal. Don't muddy the water with toxic exposure examples because that is managing the argument from the exception, not the rule. Yes, both sides of the family tree contribute to genetic dispositions, both physical and mental, and as I said, you get them or you don't...
Good hand to eye coordination can be an inherited trait but it can also be learned. Through training and repetitive motion, people build muscle memory. Their brains memorize the motion that the eyes see, then register that to the nervous system and tells the body what muscles to activate in response to that input. The more times that motion is repeated the faster the response can get assuming nothing else is thrown in the mix. Take a look at Bruce Lee, nothing particularly outstanding in his genetics or upbringing. He became what he was as an adult by constant repetitive training and understanding of his body.
You're kidding right? Do you believe that if you started your son or daughter on the same excercise and martial arts regimen that Bruce Lee was on that they could get there? I wonder how many parents in China did that very thing at Jeet Kune Do schools and their kids never got there...I wonder why?
The SEAL program pushes the mental and physical limits of individuals to extremes beyond basic training, but it cannot overcome the deep rooted fight or flight instincts that people have. When those people (Navy and Marines) enter the program they all know that at any time they have the choice to stop training. The only way they could lower the the atrition rate would be to remove that choice, then only the most resilient would enter the program to begin with and the starting number of candidates would be much lower.
I am very familiar with the BUD/S drop rates and the reasons as a ex-Naval Officer but I was making a point to Krusty that you missed. Don't argue the exceptions....injury, lead poisoning etc. Stick with the argument that someone's physical abilities are in large part determined from the genes...or their lack, thereof. Some genetics are dominant so I can't tell you what trumps what.
What you're seeing on television, is not the extent of what really happens in the SEAL program. There are a lot of reasons for the atrition rate and injuries account for a large portion of it.
I did the quote thingy wrong. Sorry..my answer is in there somewhere.
Changeup
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You have supported what I wrote. Some are passed and some are not. All things being equal. Don't muddy the water with toxic exposure examples because that is managing the argument from the exception, not the rule. Yes, both sides of the family tree contribute to genetic dispositions, both physical and mental, and as I said, you get them or you don't...
Muddy what waters? In your effort to be right beyond reason, you ignore facts. Having any physical traits from birth is no guarantee that you will possess the ability to use them successfully without reinforcement in the way of training. You also seem to forget the fact that the examples in your mind are the exceptions and do not span multiple generations. There are many more outstanding athletes who lacked from birth some physical traits that are found in athletes than there are who were born with those same traits. They become the athletes they are through training, repetitive motion, muscle memory, etc...
You're kidding right? Do you believe that if you started your son or daughter on the same excercise and martial arts regimen that Bruce Lee was on that they could get there? I wonder how many parents in China did that very thing at Jeet Kune Do schools and their kids never got there...I wonder why?
You're stuck on that little dirt track aren't you? Bruce Lee was not born with the physical abilities that he had by the time he died. If he was, he would never have gotten his bellybutton kicked when he was younger. That sir is absolute fact. Children could not withstand the rigors of the training that Bruce Lee put himself through, and no parent in their right mind would attempt to force their children to do so. Lee himself didn't start the serious training until he was an adult, after he injured his back during a training session.
Stick with the argument that someone's physical abilities are in large part determined from the genes...or their lack, thereof. Some genetics are dominant so I can't tell you what trumps what.
I am. Again, you are looking at the exceptions. Of course someone with a birth defect would not be capable of performing in the same manner as a "normal" person, even with training. But you can take an average person who has the mental fortitude to drive their bodies and make them successful at some physical activity with proper training. If you want to test that, blind fold yourself and have someone throw base balls at you for several hours a day...I can guarantee you that if you do that every day for the same length of time, at some point you are going to be able to catch those balls, because you have trained your body to do something it wasn't born with the ability to do. The fact that you weren't born with that ability will be evident the first few times you get hit with a ball. Stop doing it, and eventually you will be right back to where you started, getting hit.
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Oh geez, this is gonna be a long one. :rofl
Though I lack the interest to keep up with the last half of this novel, it seems to simply be a nature vs. nurture debate, one that has been had many time before.
As with most problems, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. But, never mind, continue.
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Oh geez, this is gonna be a long one. :rofl
Though I lack the interest to keep up with the last half of this novel, it seems to simply be a nature vs. nurture debate, one that has been had many time before.
As with most problems, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. But, never mind, continue.
LOL...true. There is a lot to be said about the nature part. There a lot of people with the proper genetic makeup to excel over others with the same amount of effort, but there are just as many on the other end of the spectrum.
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LOL...true. There is a lot to be said about the nature part. There a lot of people with the proper genetic makeup to excel over others with the same amount of effort, but there are just as many on the other end of the spectrum.
My genetic characteristics & behavior in relation to Aces High must take after my late father- trying to thread a needle with a 10 pound sledgehammer. :huh
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I heridited my AHII skills.
Best thread in ages.
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Some know how i fly in aces high. Today i went throught the CAF airchives and discovered i am the great great grandson to 2 twins who were the number 2 and # 3 men in the original Thunderbirds Squadron flying in the late 1940's. the first plane they used was the p-47 Which was my favorite plane and i could do a lot in. Then moved on the p-80's and so on to the jets they fly today. So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII.
Note: if u do not think I'm telling the truth look up thunderbirds original members there will be twins who last names are Pattillo. My last name is pattillo and we traced in the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) archives all the way to members in my family.
Forget the argument. Very cool that you're related to the Patillo brothers. Well known as 352nd Blue Nosers and Thunderbirds. :aok
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Changeup doesn't really get it. He won't be swayed, either.
He really needs to read up on these things a bit more. Heck, even real life experience can tell you that the idea you learn things from your genetic past is ludicrous (and I don't mean Ludacris, the rapper).
I'll answer ONE of his silly notions though: Why do people wash out of flight school?
Because being a pilot, or even a combat pilot requires a large subset of skills and abilities. It's not one single yes/no pass/fail thing. Every person is unique. Even identical twins have their own differences that set them apart. The reason people wash out of flight school is because the sum events of their ENTIRE LIFE up to washing out have added up, and whatever that value is, the Air Force (or branch of your choice) said it wasn't enough to meet their standards.
Please note, they can try AGAIN, LATER, in another class, after studying harder, and learning more! The ever-changing dynamic of their education will be re-evaluated at that point in time.
You can't just say "You're genetically a pilot or you're not" -- and a lot of your other statements border on the ignorant.
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You can achieve anything in life, as long as you're willing to sacrifice everything else.
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The problem with people who think they know everything is that they really annoy those of us that do :bolt:
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Physical skill sets are 100% genetic gentlemen...some skills are passed down and some are not but to say that specific physical skill sets are not genetic is uninformed.
Good SA comes from experience....but if you can't fly the plane well...who cares how good your SA is? The tools to have good SA ARE genetic...excellent vision, excellent spacial aperception, excellent depth perception....those are God given gifts.
I am not saying that EVERY physical skill is passed on to heirs....I am saying its biologically impossible not to pass some. Hey, its how human genes work men and if you deny that, well, you need to go back to school.
This is my first post gents. I never mentioned desire....never mentioned heart....never mentioned training. You all have valid points that hard work can overcome...my point is overcome what? I am saying that the "what" is genetic. I am simply saying that people are genetically pre-disposed to be better at some things than other people. If they never develop those genetic gifts for whatever reason, environment, entitlement, poor counseling, then they will never be able to realize the affect of those hereditary gifts. I am sure that there are a ton of gifted people who could have been scholars, athletes, pilots, Phd's etc that never, ever got the opportunity to develop those potentials. This is my only point: If you take two different people with the same goal in mind and put them through the same training process from start to finish they will NOT be equally talented in the end.
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Krusty,
I can only speak from the Naval Aviation perspective...if you get washed or DOR from any phase of flight school, unless it is an injury and even injury roll-back requires a ton of signatures, you are not getting back in bro. That is a fact and it isn't arguable. Again, there may be an exception here or there but that is not the rule. Washed means the IP's found a problem that cannot be overcome and DOR means you don't want it anymore.
And Krusty, I never said that you are either genetically a pilot or you aren't....never. You wanna make an argument make the argument but try not to put words in people's mouths. That makes you look like all you can do is attack the person and not the argument which is small. Go back and show me where I said that....or even made an argument to that effect. Don't throw the ignorant statements around so easily..because so far I can't really see you staying on-subject here. First it was mixing genetics with environment and then it became words I never said. Good luck with that sir.
V/r
Changeup
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I think hes right. My grandfather was a vacuum salesman and I suck at everything!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Well I too can absolutely confirm that Genetic characteristics are NOT always passed down the line.
My great grandfather was known far and wide for an unusually long and thick...umm....ah....apendage!! :O
Girls flocked to his attentions.
I on the other hand......... :(
...cheers eh! :D
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This thread is rife with FAIL.
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HAHAHAHA....I give...the HTC geneticists win. :salute
Changeup
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Changeup...I can't believe you think "anybody can learn to fly". That statement is absolutely WRONG. :rolleyes:
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Changeup...I can't believe you think "anybody can learn to fly". That statement is absolutely WRONG. :rolleyes:
<----- Living proof.
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agreed bucky. Some people are just born with a lower capability than others. Not bad, some of them are among my best friends, but they just can't do some things as good.
And the converse is true: Some people are born with greater natural ability. In AH, some are better pilots than others, and some are better GV'ers than others. You can make up for it by studying ACM, or learning what makes good cover and where the soft spots on certian tanks are, but thats not going to completely make up for a lack of skill.
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Things like hand eye coordination, good reflexes, and timing are the most important 'talents' needed to be uber at this game.
UHOH!!! Me in trouble!!! :lol
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Things like hand eye coordination, good reflexes, and timing are the most important 'talents' needed to be uber at this game.
Yes, all these are improved by porn and self pleasure.
Aint that right Grizz? :aok :cheers:
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Some know how i fly in aces high. Today i went throught the CAF airchives and discovered i am the great great grandson to 2 twins who were the number 2 and # 3 men in the original Thunderbirds Squadron flying in the late 1940's. the first plane they used was the p-47 Which was my favorite plane and i could do a lot in. Then moved on the p-80's and so on to the jets they fly today. So I'm asking do you think I'm skilled or have i inherited the genes of 2 early genoration Pattillo's who happen to be combat pilots out of WWII.
Note: if u do not think I'm telling the truth look up thunderbirds original members there will be twins who last names are Pattillo. My last name is pattillo and we traced in the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) archives all the way to members in my family.
Hear ya, bud.
My last name is Norris and I hear thunder when I sit on hard surface. Thank you Chuck!
:salute
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Well I too can absolutely confirm that Genetic characteristics are NOT always passed down the line.
My great grandfather was known far and wide for an unusually long and thick...umm....ah....apendage!! :O
Girls flocked to his attentions.
I on the other hand......... :(
...cheers eh! :D
Don't sell yourself short, you are a big apendage :D
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Changeup...I can't believe you think "anybody can learn to fly". That statement is absolutely WRONG. :rolleyes:
Buicky, actually that was Krusty....read them again.
Changeup
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agreed bucky. Some people are just born with a lower capability than others. Not bad, some of them are among my best friends, but they just can't do some things as good.
And the converse is true: Some people are born with greater natural ability. In AH, some are better pilots than others, and some are better GV'ers than others. You can make up for it by studying ACM, or learning what makes good cover and where the soft spots on certian tanks are, but thats not going to completely make up for a lack of skill.
Nemesis turned a corner! WOW...if you are born with something Nemesis, guess where that comes from? Go ahead and say it...you can do it.....GENES! Another brazen geneticist born right here on the HTC forums....now, go read what you wrote two days ago....lol
Changeup
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Look...maybe the problem is our base beliefs....you believe that anyone can "learn" to fly a fighter aircraft right? I believe that anyone can learn to fly one as well...agreed?
Maybe you should read it again............ :rolleyes:
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agreed bucky. Some people are just born with a lower capability than others. Not bad, some of them are among my best friends, but they just can't do some things as good.
And the converse is true: Some people are born with greater natural ability. In AH, some are better pilots than others, and some are better GV'ers than others. You can make up for it by studying ACM, or learning what makes good cover and where the soft spots on certian tanks are, but thats not going to completely make up for a lack of skill.
Spot on. Doesn't mean they are a lesser person by any means. I have 3 brothers. Two of them (including me, I believe) can ride anything with a handlebar and usually do it quit well. The other one couldn't ride one if his life depended on it. Well......he does attempt it quit often but fails miserably. :( (Rest in Piece's limited edition Harley, Sea doo jet ski and no less then 5 mountain sleds) Who know's why? In my first class to get my private we had 12 in it. 8 went on to finish and the rest just couldn't do it! Couldn't even do a standard rate turn!
weird :salute
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Who know's why? In my first class to get my private we had 12 in it. 8 went on to finish and the rest just couldn't do it! Couldn't even do a standard rate turn!
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings. :D I like the will to learn myself. Stop blaming your environment or hereditity. This thread gets 3 dancing banana's :banana: :banana: :banana: Nemesis I bet you've played many games in your (cough) day. I think half the guys here didn't even have atari ! well Grizz is super E 1337! SkillZ , hours logged,controllers, settings, unwillingness to go outside. :D
:salute to your grandfathers though lilsquid that was interesting ty for sharing.
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Nemesis turned a corner! WOW...if you are born with something Nemesis, guess where that comes from? Go ahead and say it...you can do it.....GENES! Another brazen geneticist born right here on the HTC forums....now, go read what you wrote two days ago....lol
Changeup
Yes, but you can't inherit learned skills. You CAN'T do it, regardless of how you twist it. You can't be born a good pilot, or even knowing how to fly. You have to learn the skills, and I believe the title of this thread is "Skills or Genetics".
The answer is skills, with perhaps a small boost in your hand-eye coordination and reflexes from genetics.
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You may have inherited good eyesight and depth perception, thats about all I could see you getting that makes you better without any experience.
But there are some people that are naturally good at almost everything, we call them Chinese ;)
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You may have inherited good eyesight and depth perception, thats about all I could see you getting that makes you better without any experience.
I agree eyesight can be hereditity, but also think genetics can skip a generation. As for hand eye coordination Nemesis. Take a karate class, learn a sport. I think it's much more to do with muscle memory. IMO
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The problem with people who think they know everything is that they really annoy those of us that do :bolt:
Oh so true! :cheers:
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Nemesis turned a corner! WOW...if you are born with something Nemesis, guess where that comes from? Go ahead and say it...you can do it.....GENES! Another brazen geneticist born right here on the HTC forums....now, go read what you wrote two days ago....lol
Changeup
Can't inheret learned talents.
Things one learns how to do are not coded into ones DNA. That makes no sense.
You're parents learned how to read, but were you born with the ability to read at an adults level, or even at all?
No. You weren't.
The prosecution rests.
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uhhhhhhhhhhhh none of THIS is reality.......just saying :rofl :rofl :rofl
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And Krusty, I never said that you are either genetically a pilot or you aren't....never. You wanna make an argument make the argument but try not to put words in people's mouths. That makes you look like all you can do is attack the person and not the argument which is small. Go back and show me where I said that....or even made an argument to that effect. Don't throw the ignorant statements around so easily..because so far I can't really see you staying on-subject here. First it was mixing genetics with environment and then it became words I never said. Good luck with that sir.
Brown Baron...you would make a lousy lawyer. I never said anyone could inherent learned talents...try to read what was written before becoming bafoonish. Show me where I said that? Show me where I even came remotely close to saying it....now I understand where the gangtards come from in-game! lol...hell, half of you only read two posts, didn't really get it and typed some absurd response about I thought you were born being a pilot. Now, so no other lazy readers just dive in somewhere, let me paraphrase, lmao:
1) My initial point was you are born with: Good eyesight (Frames per second, depth perception, spacial aperception, 20/20 vision or better), reflex response (red or high twitch muscle tissue), and a host of other mental agilities that I won't go into here...go read it yourselves at www.humangenomeproject.com where they have even documented and proofed the "homeless gene" and the "high memorization" gene....hey Counselor Brown Baron...you think someone that has documented photographic memory has a leg up on you in classes you take or took????? Its genetic...you can work extra, exta hard to make the same grades they do where reading or studying is tantamount to making the grade (ummm, flight school, Officer Candidate School, etc) and you may accomplish it but they will always have it easier than you do and in most cases they will be better at reading retention no matter how hard you work at it.
2) Working exta hard will ALWAYS facilitate progress and the eventual realization of any goal you wish to accomplish but people that have inherited a host of genetic "gifts" as listed above will always be ahead of you if you both are working as hard at it and at the same rate.
3) Finally, yes...anyone with desire can learn to fly an airplane...I have an American Airlines pilot that I play golf with regularly and I spoke to him about this embarrassing little thread. He agreed that ANYONE can learn to fly a 777 with a great deal of time, hard work and money. The one thing they cannot overcome in his professional opinion that includes 5500 hours in the 767 and 777 AND 3900 hours in the F-16 and training aircraft is MOTION SICKNESS which, in 99% of the cases, is genetic....my wife and daughter both have it...I guess that one was passed down.
So, you can overcome and learn anything you want to but folks that have been given specific PHYSICAL SKILL SETS genetically have a leg up at the start...they may choose to never continue to refine those genetic gifts through hard work and continued development and will just become "average" at whatever task or occupation they choose but they did have a head start and to not acknowledge that is pure ignorance.
The "prosecution" loses because he tried to argue something that was never admitted as evidence. Prepare for your malpractice lawsuit because you must have been absent the day they taught law at law school. Smart ass? Yes, lawyer? no...I hope smart bellybutton pays well.
V/r
Changeup
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I disagree. The gene pool is a very delicate thing. Your DNA has traces to the first man. It is very possible that you can inherit genes from your great great relatives.
No it doesn't. It traces back to the first hominid female. A much bigger chunk of DNA is passed through the matriarchal line.
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but also think genetics can skip a generation.
No it can't. Think about it.
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What can't palef? Are you saying that eyesight, good or bad, isn't hereditary?
Genetics don't skip generations...the father or mother may pass along dominant genes that repress certain recessive genetic traits in offspring.
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It must be eyesight.
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Eyesight can skip a generation, just as hair loss...basic genetics doesn't skip any generations, unless there are no offspring then it ceases for that specific line.
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ACTUALLY......... Some genetic code does skip a generation. The reason I never joined the US Navy was due to my Diabetes (type I). Which, has a tendency to skip a generation. My Grandfather had it but my Dad never got it, nor any of his siblings. It is still genetics however.
With that said....
We do not know enough about our genes (and I mean the science community, not the AH community) for us to be giving out absolutes either way I think.
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I think we do.
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If there were less tree hugging, save everybody, life starts at conception, liberal bastages out there.... We probably would by now. But sadly, we do not.
I think we do.
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If there were less tree hugging, save everybody, life starts at conception, liberal bastages out there.... We probably would by now. But sadly, we do not.
We don't know everything, but as Mensa mentioned, we know enough.
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/home.shtml
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ACTUALLY......... Some genetic code does skip a generation. The reason I never joined the US Navy was due to my Diabetes (type I). Which, has a tendency to skip a generation. My Grandfather had it but my Dad never got it, nor any of his siblings. It is still genetics however.
With that said....
We do not know enough about our genes (and I mean the science community, not the AH community) for us to be giving out absolutes either way I think.
LLogan:
Actually, you need to do a bit more homework...this is directly off the Genetics of Diabetes website and it's hyperlink "the genetics of diabetes" which never mentions "generational" skipping. In fact, http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/genetics-of-diabetes.html states SPECIFICALLY that Diabetes type I and Type II REQUIRE an environmental variable to get it in addition to being genetically pre-disposed. And I quote:
Genetics of Diabetes
You've probably wondered how you got diabetes. You may worry that your children will get it too. Unlike some traits, diabetes does not seem to be inherited in a simple pattern. Yet clearly, some people are born more likely to get diabetes than others.
What Leads to Diabetes?
Type 1 and type 2 diabetes have different causes. Yet two factors are important in both. First, you must inherit a predisposition to the disease. Second, something in your environment must trigger diabetes.
Genes alone are not enough. One proof of this is identical twins. Identical twins have identical genes. Yet when one twin has type 1 diabetes, the other gets the disease at most only half the time. When one twin has type 2 diabetes, the other's risk is at most 3 in 4.
Type 1 Diabetes
In most cases of type 1 diabetes, people need to inherit risk factors from both parents. We think these factors must be more common in whites because whites have the highest rate of type 1 diabetes. Because most people who are at risk do not get diabetes, researchers want to find out what the environmental triggers are.
One trigger might be related to cold weather. Type 1 diabetes develops more often in winter than summer and is more common in places with cold climates. Another trigger might be viruses. Perhaps a virus that has only mild effects on most people triggers type 1 diabetes in others.
Early diet may also play a role. Type 1 diabetes is less common in people who were breastfed and in those who first ate solid foods at later ages.
In many people, the development of type 1 diabetes seems to take many years. In experiments that followed relatives of people with type 1 diabetes, researchers found that most of those who later got diabetes had certain autoantibodies in their blood for years before.
(Antibodies are proteins that destroy bacteria or viruses. Autoantibodies are antibodies 'gone bad,' which attack the body's own tissues.)
ACCORDING TO THIS WEBSITE (which is the most recommended website by the Diabetes Association of America) NOT CHANGEUP, You got it because your mom AND your dad passed the genetics to you AND because of an environmental factor. Your dad didnt get it because his mother didn't pass the genes to him OR he was never impacted by the environmental variable.
Changeup
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What can't palef? Are you saying that eyesight, good or bad, isn't heridity
fixed
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I'm very familiar with the "official" stance sir. That has been that way forever. They will not endorse "suspect" ideas even though many of their published theories have no data to support them past Phase II studies.
However, just about every endocrinologist out there, or at least the good ones, all agree that there is more than enough hard data to support the generation skip theory.
You shouldn't believe everything you read sir.
And I'll use me as an example.... Somewhere in there it talks about type 1's getting it during the colder weather (I developed it in August, in New Jersey) and that people with low immune systems are more likely (I have never been sick, ever). I do not think environmental factors have much to do with it at all.
And not for nothing but the ADA is the only federally funded body to govern over Diabetes research and legislation. That is the American Diabetes Association..... Which I assume is what you tried to say. Not whatever it was you wrote, correct? When you have no competition, you can say whatever keeps your pockets lined with lobbyists.
EDIT: And I freely admit.... This is my, very educated, opinion, no facts. But unless you know a Type I or an Endocrinologist, don't just take the word of what the government tells you. (and that last sentence may make you think I'm "one of those people" - But I'm not, I promise... I trust the US government, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to further the American Dream)
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Gaaah!
There's a huge difference in saying that genetically transmitted conditions skip generations and claiming that "genetics" skips generations. If genetics skipped generations there'd be no generation to skip to, would there?
There's effective communication and then there's bollocks. I was quoting bollocks.
Sheesh.
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And rereading my original post, let me ask you this.... What did I say that was false?
LLogann:
Actually, you need to do a bit more homework...this is directly off the Genetics of Diabetes website and it's hyperlink "the genetics of diabetes" which never mentions "generational" skipping. In fact, http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/genetics-of-diabetes.html states SPECIFICALLY that Diabetes type I and Type II REQUIRE an environmental variable to get it in addition to being genetically pre-disposed. And I quote:
Which, has a tendency to skip a generation.
And let me give you Type II straight up...... If you eat like chit, you are probably going to get it by the time you are 50. No environment needed there either. And I think EVERYBODY knows a Type II..... Right?
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Gaaah!
There's a huge difference in saying that genetically transmitted conditions skip generations and claiming that "genetics" skips generations. If genetics skipped generations there'd be no generation to skip to, would there?
There's effective communication and then there's bollocks. I was quoting bollocks.
Sheesh.
Its ok...the poster that I was intending the comment for understood it...I guess it was effective. But thanks for playing....sheesh
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I'm very familiar with the "official" stance sir. That has been that way forever. They will not endorse "suspect" ideas even though many of their published theories have no data to support them past Phase II studies.
However, just about every endocrinologist out there, or at least the good ones, all agree that there is more than enough hard data to support the generation skip theory.
You shouldn't believe everything you read sir.
And I'll use me as an example.... Somewhere in there it talks about type 1's getting it during the colder weather (I developed it in August, in New Jersey) and that people with low immune systems are more likely (I have never been sick, ever). I do not think environmental factors have much to do with it at all.
And not for nothing but the ADA is the only federally funded body to govern over Diabetes research and legislation. That is the American Diabetes Association..... Which I assume is what you tried to say. Not whatever it was you wrote, correct? When you have no competition, you can say whatever keeps your pockets lined with lobbyists.
EDIT: And I freely admit.... This is my, very educated, opinion, no facts. But unless you know a Type I or an Endocrinologist, don't just take the word of what the government tells you. (and that last sentence may make you think I'm "one of those people" - But I'm not, I promise... I trust the US government, and I would gladly sacrifice myself to further the American Dream)
LLogan:
Not to intrude on your condition and no, I didn't consult an endocrinologist but it interests me because my Dad is Type II...now, he has been known to enjoy a giant chili cheese dog and 12 beers at one sitting and admittedly finds that more important than his current medical condition, so no...I did not consult. What I did do is look it up...on a Medical school website. I cannot and do not believe everything I read but...and this may be a big but, one has to assume that posts are very adequately vetted on medical school sites because that is where folks go for immediate advice on what they were just diagnosed with. Here it is from the University of Washington School of Medicine's official stance:
http://www.orthop.washington.edu/uw/diabetesbasics/tabID__3376/ItemID__31/Articles/Default.aspx
"Facts and myths
Diabetes does not "skip" generations. However, we don't understand the exact reasons why some people get diabetes and others don't.
A common misconception is that if children eat too much candy they will "catch" diabetes. Although we are seeing more type 2 diabetes in young people, this misconception refers to type 1 diabetes and is not true.
For people with diabetes, many feel that occasional blood glucose levels over 200 mg/dL will have long-term consequences. This is not true at all as it is common for glucose levels to rise above this level in almost everyone with diabetes.
There are also many misconceptions regarding food. One common one is that fresh fruit is "healthy" because it is "natural". While this may be true, fruit is also very effective at causing the blood glucose to rise quickly. Fruit juices are the most common problem here. Many people also don't realize how much milk causes blood glucose to rise. Finally, there are many misunderstandings regarding the glucose effects of alcohol. Depending on the type of alcohol consumed and the amount of food consumed, blood glucose can actually go DOWN when drinking so this needs to be done with caution.
There is also a common misunderstanding about exercise. While it is true that exercise usually results in lower blood glucose levels, if a person with type 1 diabetes exercises without sufficient insulin in the bloodstream (for example, more than 12 hours after the last shot of NPH insulin) the blood glucose can actually go UP! In fact exercise at this time period can actually lead to ketoacidosis. Therefore, for people with type 1 diabetes great attention is required balancing blood glucose levels and exercise. Since high blood glucose often occurs when insulin levels in the blood are low, the usual recommendation is to wait until the blood sugar is below 250 mg/dL before participating in strenuous exercise."You are the expert because you have the condition and I do not....but this is only one of 14 websites from different medical societies, schools and support groups that answer the question this way. None that I found confirm generation skipping. Does that means it doesn't? Not necessarily...but I think its very low risk to believe the medical school sites and support group sites.
Now, this was published about 45 days ago and should interest you immensely. Very recently they have isolated the specific process that causes your immune system to turn on "itself" within the mechanism of a specific gene and they believe they can break that "binding tolerance"...in other words, once they prove that this iis the cause, they can "turn it off". Pretty cool actually...it sounds like they might be moving towards a form of "cure"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100419173004.htm
PS - This study was supported by The National Institutes of Health...I think they are safe to believe.
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I'm sorry to hear about your Dad brotha. Type II is a terrible disease that needs drastic lifestyle changes. I hope he is doing well. And he really can't be eating those chili dogs anymore. YOU need to figure out a way to make him realize that.
But the only thing the 2 types in common really is the name. Other than that they are 2 totally different diseases.
Some of the data in those articles you put up look kind of like a masters student's thesis. I see a few half-truths. As for ScienceDaily.com..... If you go to their "about" page you'll see it is more a marketing page than a "who we are" page. They are trying to sell ad space and they are owned by iVillage. Not only that but it's a copy & paste site. "ScienceDaily has grown from a two-person operation to a news service with roughly 2,000 contributing organizations worldwide, partnerships with major content providers, and technical support services." They are just peddlers of other peoples work.
As for the National Institutes of Health... They are the Nation's Medical Research Agency. That's what they do, support medical research. Doesn't actually mean anything other than they gave these people a grant to do some research. That is all they do, give out money.
Just saying........ :salute
PS - This study was supported by The National Institutes of Health...I think they are safe to believe.
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LLogan:
Yes sir...that's because the research was done by Phd's in genetics! If they are anything like the folks we have in our R & D lab, you and I won't be having beer with them after work...they're so smart, they can pass a written test over the phone!
Seriously..if you look up the research group, they are 100% a part of the solution, not the problem. I'm sure the website must have been paid to put it out there but it is current science on the subject by looking at comments made by peers on the comparative science section of the CDC website.
Anyway...I'm done...but I have learned a lot.
Cheers to all you brown eyed people who want to have blue eyed kids but can't and don't know why!!
V/r
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don't know why so many folks have their knickers knotted over this, since the truth is so obvious (or maybe that's just to anyone who's ever worked with livestock?) : genetics controls predisposition, while environment provides opportunity.
While (obviously) a person doesn't inherit actual skills, people often (but again obviously, certainly not always) inherit a set of genetic traits that predisposes them to more easily, more rapidly, and to a greater extent achieve a higher than average proficiency in a similar set of skills to those that one or both of their parents excelled at when compared to the average. Any one can learn to play the piano for example, but someone with the right predisposition is going to learn to do so with greater ease - and likely achieve a higher level of proficiency as a result - than someone who is tone deaf and has no inherent sense of rhythm. Of course, both of them have to be given an opportunity to learn to play or neither ever will - and of course, just because the parents don't have a predisposition for greatness at a particular skill doesn't mean that the child can't.
But as a general rule if you mate two exceptional racehorses, your chances of getting a foal that will win races is far far better than if you randomly selected a couple of cow ponies and hoped for the best.
With people, and skills that are more learned and less physical, environment plays a bigger role, but an inherited predisposition tends to influence environment, in that if one or both parents are musically inclined (for example), their child is going to be more likely to get the exposure that would bring forth the skills that they have a greater than average chance of having a natural proclivity toward.
The real argument isn't which is important, because both are - the hard question is to what extent do each limit the theoretical development, and because they tend to reinforce each other, to what extent each is responsible for the success (or failure) of any single individual to achieve a specific level of proficiency.
<S>
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Thank you...
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If irony had wings you fellas would give it a model designation and invade some Latin American country with it.
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this is what i look like
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If irony had wings you fellas would give it a model designation and invade some Latin American country with it.
Look! Palef is trying to be witty...FAIL. Hope that works out for ya. :rofl
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I'm still trying to understand how having relatives that were WW2 aces relates to skill in an online simulation.... :huh
BTW, I think it's great that not only two brothers flew in WW2, but also served together w/ distinction.
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well, you certainly didNOT inherit the modesty gene :lol Pretty unbelievably boastful statement comming from,,,,uh,,,,how should I say,,,,the likes of YOU :rofl Even someone like GRIZZ (true badarse) would sound foolish asking such a self promoting question :neener:
tooooooooo funny :banana: :banana: elfy :neener:
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Anyone know lilsquids K/DR, Is it even over 1:1?
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(http://loot-ninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/fat_gamer_kid.jpg)
My GrandDaddies were Audie Murphie and Sir Lancelot, BEEETCH!!
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Gaaah!
There's effective communication and then there's bollocks. I was quoting bollocks.
Yes theres a difference in being an arse, and being an arse. gezzz I just felt like taking your comment out of text. :rolleyes:
and dangit Reaper where'd you get my senior prom photo? :mad: