Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sky25 on June 14, 2010, 08:09:20 PM
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Why did Aces High decide to make enemy GV icons visible to aircraft and hidden for GV's on the ground? I know that a few of you are going to come up with your normal put downs, and rude remarks. This is a serious question. I think that it is too easy to spot enemy Gv's from the air. Most guys are dive bombing an icon. I have read alot of past posts about this and many say that Gv's aren't what this game is about. If this is the case than why did they include them in the game?
If a base is flashing and there is no DAR, why not make the enemy aircraft actually hunt for the gv on the ground without the use of any easy to spot icon? I know that this has been discussed before. I just want to know what other players think about this subject>> I am talking about icons visible to enemy aircraft only..
I think enemy Gv icons should be hidden from air planes like they are on enemy ground vehicles. Friendly icons should be seen... Just a thought.
Let the flaming begin!!!
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IMO it would be way to easy to ambush another gv. Not much fun when you already have the range.
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IMO it would be way to easy to ambush another gv. Not much fun when you already have the range.
I dont think he wants the icon at all.....completely removed from the game for GVs.
My answer to you would have to be low end computers....I have a pretty hard time seeing GVs out side of the icon range as it is.
Good question though, would be interesting to see how the game would change with no gv icons :salute
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I dont think he wants the icon at all.....completely removed from the game for GVs.
My answer to you would have to be low end computers....I have a pretty hard time seeing GVs out side of the icon range as it is.
Good question though, would be interesting to see how the game would change with no gv icons :salute
You make a good point JunkyII. Not everyone has a high end graphics card on their pc.
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Can't see the icon until we're 1.5 away anyway.
Got to be practically right on top of you to see it.
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All enemy icons are under the vehicle be it GV or plane. When your in a GV you don't have any height so you can't see the icons. Planes how ever have the height and can see bits and pieces of the icons sticking out of the ground. Your vehicle sitting in a hill is on an angle, but the icon info is always horizontal. So while your on an angle the icon isn't so a bit of it sticks out to be see. Moral of the story, don't park on hills.
I think it was the quickest easiest way for them to hid the icons from the GV to GV views when they first switched it.
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Figure out a way for me to tell an enemy panzer apart from a friendly panzer and I'm game.
wrongway
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Figure out a way for me to tell an enemy panzer apart from a friendly panzer and I'm game.
wrongway
Friendly Icons would remain fully visible. Only enemy Gv icons would be hidden..
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Icons of any type are to compensate for the poor relationship between what you can see on a monitor vs. what you can see in real life. It has been stated many times that the default zoom is approximately 1 to 1, whereas what you see without zoom is purposefully made smaller/farther away to help simulate a modicum of peripheral vision in the limited field of view the monitor provides. Likewise without the icons the lack of and/or distorted visual cues you receive from a 2D monitor would make it very difficult to judge even whether you are closing or not closing the distance to an enemy -- which in real life would be fairly easy to distinguish.
If you've ever flown in a low flying plane or taken a helicopter ride, you will note that ground objects are actually quite easy to pick out. Take any commercial flight and up to a quite significant altitude you can still pick out individual buildings and cars driving on the interstates. So from a plane flying at 3000 feet above ground level, picking out something the size of a tank in the surrounding fields would also be comparatively easy, especially if that tank was moving. So, we have icons on the GVs, too.
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If I recall GV's were originally put in for AA support. for bases and towns. People like yourself who like tanks and AFV's started asking for more and HTC went along with it and the ground game evolved from that and now has become entrenched in the game (not a bad thing per se). No Icons would give those that IMO "game the game" by sneaking on enemy bases and camping spawn points an unfair advantage.
My 2 cents worth
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-1
In fact I want the GV icon range to be at 6k range because I'm sick and tired of taking off from a base only to catch that one hit wonder bullet from the flak that I couldn't even see until I was 1.5K away, which just so happens to be the perfect kill range for a flak.
Let's make it fair because if they can see us from 6k away we should be able to see them 6k away.
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This is a serious question.
:rofl
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:rofl
Yes a serious question about the GAME. But I always expect a few comments that lack any mental ability. Thanks SlapShot.
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All enemy icons are under the vehicle be it GV or plane. When your in a GV you don't have any height so you can't see the icons. Planes how ever have the height and can see bits and pieces of the icons sticking out of the ground.
Nope. When I'm in an aircraft looking down at an enemy GV, the icon is always on top, but only visible at distance 1.5K or less. Only enemy aircraft icons are below the con.
I know every computer is different, but with my low-end on-board graphics chipset in my $300 computer, the enemy GV's are very easy to see at dist 5K or more unless they're hiding in barns or trees. My main problem is to see them I have to turn the ground detail way up (I fly A-to-A with all sliders to the far right) to see GV's outside of about 1.5K, but turning the detail up drops my framerate to less than 10... not exactly easy to fly and divebomb with your framerate hovering between 6 and 9..... :uhoh
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If I recall GV's were originally put in for AA support. for bases and towns. People like yourself who like tanks and AFV's started asking for more and HTC went along with it and the ground game evolved from that and now has become entrenched in the game (not a bad thing per se). No Icons would give those that IMO "game the game" by sneaking on enemy bases and camping spawn points an unfair advantage.
My 2 cents worth
That isn't "gaming the game" thats playing the game. The guys that lanctucka all the GV's at the spawn because they can see the icon from far enough away they can change their path in time to dive bomb them with 3 salvos of 1000lb bombs are the ones that are " gaming the game" You don't need a high end graphics card to hear a GV moving if you kill your engine and if the engine is off and the player is hiding well then i guess you have to decide if your gonna circle and wait him out or move on.
+10000 :aok
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I dont see GV till Im already in gun range. Usually its tracers that tip me off...or loud bangs.
I dont have much use for GVs in here. I'm no good in them for one, and for another, they seem like cardboard cutouts. Why he put them in the game? Probably to try to get some of the WW2OL types. As far as I'm concerned the GVs are things to be bombed. Repeatedly.
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Figure out a way for me to tell an enemy panzer apart from a friendly panzer and I'm game.
wrongway
The smell? <g,d,r>
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That isn't "gaming the game" thats playing the game. The guys that lanctucka all the GV's at the spawn because they can see the icon from far enough away they can change their path in time to dive bomb them with 3 salvos of 1000lb bombs are the ones that are " gaming the game"
+10000 :aok
For someone that claims to have played this game for many years, you are pretty much clueless how the game works. GV icons are not visible from the air beyond d1.5 out, and it's easy to spot a moving dot on the ground.
ack-ack
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The dot rolling across the terrain lobing rounds isn't id enough? The only purpose for the icon is to identify gv type anyway.
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I totally agree - you got some that ruin a good tank battle by dropping bombs on ya and they wouldn't have spotted you without the big red flag on ya. Also someone mentioned low end computer - you can't get no more low end then what I use and I can see gv's from the air just fine without red flags/eny icons.
+1 I like the idea to easy mode for aircraft now
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For myself personally it is no problem at all to spot a gv on the ground well before an Icon pops up . I pan look out of my cockpit and a BLACK dot rolling across a green terrain can be spotted long before they fire or any icon pops up. you can see the GV due to it not matching the terrain.
From the ground what fun would it be for an icon to pop up with the exact range distance for you to bead in on ! I guess it would be kinda fun if your the one firing but if your on the other end ......... let the whining on 200 BEGIN !!
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For everyone that doesn't like enemy icons just hit alt+I until you either have friendly only or none at all. As others have said you can usually see the moving black dot from distance, but if you have friendlies in GVs how do you tell in it is an enemy or friendly dot?
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That isn't "gaming the game" thats playing the game. The guys that lanctucka all the GV's at the spawn because they can see the icon from far enough away they can change their path in time to dive bomb them with 3 salvos of 1000lb bombs are the ones that are " gaming the game" You don't need a high end graphics card to hear a GV moving if you kill your engine and if the engine is off and the player is hiding well then i guess you have to decide if your gonna circle and wait him out or move on.
+10000 :aok
Let me see if I follow your logic . You don't like GV icons because it makes it harder to spawn camp ?
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Nice whine, but total fail. Spotting GV's is easy as pie well outside of the 1.5k icon range even with a POS graphics card.
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Nice whine, but total fail. Spotting GV's is easy as pie well outside of the 1.5k icon range even with a POS graphics card.
For some odd reason, not for me. I'm almost incapable of spotting them outside icon range. (And yes, I do know about ground view mode ;) )
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I have to agree with lusche, and this is with numerous video cards over a number of years.
If anything, the giant roaring/rumbling/vibrating thing would be MORE visible than most GVers wish. If GVs are only visible at 1.5k, then they should only see planes at 1.5k as well.
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I have read many posts where others complain about some guy dropping the FH's during a furball. I have no opinion on that because my fighter scores suck badly and I haven't the skills in a fighter to comment on this subject.. I do enjoy Gv's and attack planes. Tank alley is a good example of the same thing. Tanks show up to have a free for all tank battle. There will always be some guy flying around dropping bombs on your head to pad his scores. The tanks are not trying to take any bases. They are just having a big ground battle. I have dropped eggs on tanks trying to take a base. If your in a tank trying to take a base your a target period. What purpose does it serve in tank alley? No base taking is going on there. What point is served by going into a gv battle in tank alley and dropping eggs?
There is no skill in that.. Fly over tank alley look for the red icon and drop on it. Take away those red icons from tanks as seen by airplanes could make it just a little bit more difficult to kill tanks. When I am dive bombing, that icon really helps with judging drop altitude.
I like to hide in the trees to conceal myself from above. What purpose does this serve when the enemy planes sees that bi red sign that says M4 on it? A good ground battle is fun because its at times a game of cat and mouse. Listening for sounds, and judging your opponents next move. Nothing is worse than being in a good GV battle or hunt and some plane sees your red icons and drops a bomb on your head. That airplane should at least have to look for his Gv to kill.
With all of the opinions about dropping FH's at a furball, I am sure there are a few concerning this subject as well.
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There is no skill in that..
Really? Try it.
Landing bombs on moving targets takes practice. Guess where you get practice? You do it. Also, one might also argue it takes no skill to spawn camp other GVs when you have no icons for them to aim at you and stop you. You're essentially hidden until you give yourself away.
GVers that want no outside interference might try playing offline against the runway drones.
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Really? Try it.
Landing bombs on moving targets takes practice. Guess where you get practice? You do it. Also, one might also argue it takes no skill to spawn camp other GVs when you have no icons for them to aim at you and stop you. You're essentially hidden until you give yourself away.
GVers that want no outside interference might try playing offline against the runway drones.
This post isnt about spawn camping. And yes you are correct dropping eggs takes skill. My point is that enemy GV's are too easy to spot from the sky because of the red icon. Why did they remove the icon from being seen on enemy Gv's when your in a GV? I just say do the same with planes.
Try dropping on tanks without that distance icon may take more skill I think.
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The dot rolling across the terrain lobing rounds isn't id enough? The only purpose for the icon is to identify gv type anyway.
Even more easy when said gv is around 5-10 other gvs dots lobbing. Sound alone gives you away. :D
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This post isnt about spawn camping. And yes you are correct dropping eggs takes skill. My point is that enemy GV's are too easy to spot from the sky because of the red icon. Why did they remove the icon from being seen on enemy Gv's when your in a GV? I just say do the same with planes.
Try dropping on tanks without that distance icon may take more skill I think.
Icons fill a function that monitors cannot replicate. For planes OR GVs. You look at a car 2 lanes over and 4 cars ahead and you might be able to make out it's a Ford Explorer (or whatever), but if it were a game it'd be a square with blurry textures. Especially if it's moving. You can pick out a high level of detail with the human eyeball. You can't do that with computer games. You also can't tell depth perception, range, on a single 2D monitor. Icons serve a very real and very specific purpose in-game. The ONLY reason the GV icons show up at 1.5 is because GVers whine about planes attacking them. The reverse is not true: Wirbles and Osty see planes at 6K, and can land shots out well before their target knows they are even there.
It's a double standard, and all it does is serve to feed GV whiners that want all icons removed so they can hide and kill without fear of opposition. Sorry if I've come off a bit grumpy on the matter, but it's an issue that's been growing (from the vocal GV minority) for a long time.
P.S. I'm for icons on gvs from other GVs as well, but for the sake of icons giving away positions behind hills, etc, I don't see a way that it would work well.
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I dont see GV till Im already in gun range. Usually its tracers that tip me off...or loud bangs.
As far as I'm concerned the GVs are things to be bombed. Repeatedly.
YES! :D
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There will always be some guy flying around dropping bombs on your head to pad his scores.
There are those who enjoy tank plinking with cannon... has 0 to do with score.
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Exactly. I bomb gvs and strafe with HurriD in fighter mode to make my score worse. Then in the off chance I beat some 5 ENY dweeb in the budget model I'm flying, he might start wondering if he's losing his 1337 skillz. :)
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I have to agree with lusche, and this is with numerous video cards over a number of years.
If anything, the giant roaring/rumbling/vibrating thing would be MORE visible than most GVers wish. If GVs are only visible at 1.5k, then they should only see planes at 1.5k as well.
Only the GV icons aren't visible beyond d1.5k, the GV itself can be visible up to 5k away depending on the skin. The default skin is easier to spot from far distance because of the glossy shine while custom skinned GVs are a little tougher to spot if not moving and when moving just as easy to spot as a default skinned GV. M3s and M16s are the easiest of the lot to spot from very far distances as they appear like a bright day-glo green on the terrain.
ack-ack
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Actually, at distance, they look like BLACK dots. They really don't look bright green to me.
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Actually, at distance, they look like BLACK dots. They really don't look bright green to me.
I always thought it depended on angle of the sun. Sometimes they look like black dots but other times I've seen the "day glow green" AKAK refers to.
One more thing about the GV distance icons and depth perception. Without the icons to tell me I've just come within d800, d600, etc, as a divebomber or IL-2 driver I would really have no visual cue as to my altitude making augering even more commonplace than it is now. In real life a pilot wouldn't have the icon, but he would be able to tell his altitude much easier than someone looking at a flat monitor with a fairly monochromatic flat ground.
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IMO the only one that looks green is the M3...it has that glow you can see from a mile away.
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For someone that claims to have played this game for many years, you are pretty much clueless how the game works. GV icons are not visible from the air beyond d1.5 out, and it's easy to spot a moving dot on the ground.
ack-ack
I was actually responding to his claim of it being easier sneak a base with no icon and the implication that makes it easier to game the game. The base has been flashing for a long time before any GV actually makes it to the base itself and are very easy to see from the tower without the icon. I can spot a GV well before icon range just by listening for them and looking for the moving black dot on the ground. The only thing removing the icons would really do is not allow planes looking to bomb pick out the perked GV's, always the ones they target first, and force them to talk with guys on the ground to talk with them to locate the "high value targets"
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Let me see if I follow your logic . You don't like GV icons because it makes it harder to spawn camp ?
No that is not what I said at all.
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All Icons air/ ground except friendly should not be in the game..
KAM
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All Icons air/ ground except friendly should not be in the game..
Buy me an appropriate display system, and I'm all game.
Until then, keep that stuff to AvA.
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All Icons air/ ground except friendly should not be in the game..
KAM
I have to disagree, it has been debated over and over. Icons compensate for the lack of real life vision.
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I have to disagree, it has been debated over and over. Icons compensate for the lack of real life vision.
that's bs fly in the AvA and see for yourself - you can shoot them down like any other plane. But there not going anywhere it's been debated so no need to discuss it.
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-1
In fact I want the GV icon range to be at 6k range because I'm sick and tired of taking off from a base only to catch that one hit wonder bullet from the flak that I couldn't even see until I was 1.5K away, which just so happens to be the perfect kill range for a flak.
Let's make it fair because if they can see us from 6k away we should be able to see them 6k away.
:rofl Have you been killed by Waystin2 lately?
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that's bs fly in the AvA and see for yourself - you can shoot them down like any other plane. But there not going anywhere it's been debated so no need to discuss it.
Wow
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thee biggest problem about no icons on gv's would be for the planes to tell if they are bombing the friendly panzer or the enemy one!
if you are in a scenario where you had German armor against U.S. armor , then yes turn them off, but when everyone is in the same type of tank, it is a problem!
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thee biggest problem about no icons on gv's would be for the planes to tell if they are bombing the friendly panzer or the enemy one!
if you are in a scenario where you had German armor against U.S. armor , then yes turn them off, but when everyone is in the same type of tank, it is a problem!
I think he is asking to turn enemy icons off and leave friendly one on.
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I have to disagree, it has been debated over and over. Icons compensate for the lack of real life vision.
Real life vision? I see a Dot way past 6k and as for GVS it would be a great addition to Gv attacks and sneaking through the trees with a M-3 evading planes.
KAM
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Can you tell what that dot is at 6k? Or does it just look like a black dot? You don't want to see any icons go fly in the AvA or hit Alt+I until you are satisfied.
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I think he is asking to turn enemy icons off and leave friendly one on.
well that doesn't seem very fair! you want realism? nothing real about friendly icons either, maybe just a flag on the antenna , red for bad guy, green for friendly. :neener: :neener:
although I do believe if I am hiding under a group of trees it should be a heck of a lot harder to see me than it is!