Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: TheRapier on June 16, 2010, 06:42:57 PM
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Just some thoughts about oft abused system. This is a subject that some folks seem to understand and others show no awareness of. I've seen people use Range as a chat channel and while it can be used that way, its not optimal.
Keep in mind that Range is used by everyone in the area and because of way the internet works, there is a delay between the time you transmit and your intended recipient gets the message.
This means that if it gets clogged with extraneous chat about what you did 4 weeks ago on Sunday, however interesting that might be to you and who you are talking to, someone else may not get a warning of the bandit dropping on their tail in time to do anything about it. If you want to chat with someone, tune to a different channel, that's why there are 999 of them. Don't make the rest of the folks around you have to go through a conversation that is not of interest or use to them.
If you are giving someone a check and not using the check six key, say who is the recipient is. Yelling break without that means that nearly every friendly in your area either will a) break reflexively b) have to look around for a possible threat.
If you can tell, tell them where it is in reference to them. Makes it easier to find the threat.
When calling in a bogie, just saying "High bogie" or "High Badguy" isn't super helpful, Lots of people will get the message who can't even see it because its not in con range yet. Give a location that everyone can figure out, "High 109, north of the field."
I know it sounds very professional and pilot like to say, "5 bogies, 12 o'clock high." but this doesn't give any info to someone who is not flying with you and knows which direction you are facing. It is more helpful to give a reference to a common point everyone knows. For instance if you are escorting a group of bombers say, "7 51s 5 o'clock to the bombers." Where you can GIVE ALTITUDE. Other than location this is the most important piece of info.
If you are going to help someone say who you are going to help and your distance out. They want to know how soon they can expect help. If the badguy turns off, call it, they may not have seen it yet.
If you are calling you a bomber group or a cv, or typing it on country channel, give composition, keypad location, direction and alt. This makes the information actionable and will help your country to mobilize. In contrast a message that says, "Gazillions of bad guys coming to a109." is information but not super useful.
Make your transmissions short and information dense. Be aware of what is going on. While you and others in your immediate area may not be threatened other folks could be very busy. If you are in a GV, be aware that fighters and bombers are using the same channel. Going on for 10 minutes about how its unfair your bullets are richocheting off your target, may be momentarily satisfying but its not really helping anything. You might need some of these folks help and they will be more inclined if you look like you know what you are doing.
All of this goes double if you are in a scenario :)
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Well your preaching the right sermon, question is if anyone is listening that should be.
Good post! <S>
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Great topic. One that is near and dear to my heart.
I was taught the following:
Always identify who you are talking to. Start with the call sign.
Provide any direction before you provide information. If you need to tell me (dawger) to break left the proper form is:
Dawger, Break Left, 190
Who, Do, Why....that is the correct format.
If you aren't going to suggest a course of action give information the guy can use.
Clock positions should be referenced to the guy you are talking to, not yourself. If everyone is in the same reasonably tight formation using the apparent clock from yourself will work, otherwise give a heading or cardinal compass point if you cannot tell the clock position of the friendly you are trying to help.
Below are links to the training pages we used in my squadron when we were quite active in large operations like events. We still use most of what is described but on a much smaller scale.
CAUTION: The Following HYPERLINKS contains information derogatory of highly popular radio technique in AH. Use at your OWN RISK. The author doesn't really care if you don't appreciate his opinion
Communication Standard (https://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/lessons/Stage2lessons/lesson_14b.htm)
Glossary of Communication Terms (https://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/glossary_of_radio_terms.htm)
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Dawger, the hyperlinks gave some very good information, thanks. There is only one small change I would make. I would rather get a "six" call with no information, than no six call at all. I agree, though, that those few added words can make a big difference. I will try to incorporate these in my radio calls. :airplane:
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Dawger, the hyperlinks gave some very good information, thanks. There is only one small change I would make. I would rather get a "six" call with no information, than no six call at all. I agree, though, that those few added words can make a big difference. I will try to incorporate these in my radio calls. :airplane:
That is, of course, true.
My training stuff is aimed at guys flying together as a squadron using our own TS server and training regularly together. When I'm not flying with squad mates I take what I can get and the automated six call or a voice "check it" is welcome and I try to thank everyone that gives me one.
Any squad that operates together regularly can benefit from practicing good voice comms technique. It doesn't interfere with the normal banter and good times in our squad.
We have the regular continuous discussion of wine enemas, filipino priests in drag and the pressing issue of latex allergies among mexican hookers in between all that official sounding radio lingo.
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(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/S_i10p6i1.jpg)
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:lol
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I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.
Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.
I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.
I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.
i.e.
"(pilot name) high 109 long six"
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I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.
Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.
I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.
I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.
i.e.
"(pilot name) high 109 long six"
The direction is easy to figure out if you are close enough to the friendly. It is the same decision process you make in the cockpit.
You generally break towards the bandit to complicate his guns solution as rapidly and effectively as possible.
If you have a bandit at 5 o'clock, you break right. If you have a bandit at 7 o'clock you break left. The same information can be passed on to a friend. If the bandit is dead six, tell him to break in a direction that helps you help him. If the bandit is dead six to the friendly.and you are 7 o'clock to the friendly you want the friend to break right to give you the bandits tail.
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The direction is easy to figure out if you are close enough to the friendly. It is the same decision process you make in the cockpit.
You generally break towards the bandit to complicate his guns solution as rapidly and effectively as possible.
If you have a bandit at 5 o'clock, you break right. If you have a bandit at 7 o'clock you break left. The same information can be passed on to a friend. If the bandit is dead six, tell him to break in a direction that helps you help him. If the bandit is dead six to the friendly.and you are 7 o'clock to the friendly you want the friend to break right to give you the bandits tail.
I think the point of Lute's comment was the average schmuck flying around probably doesn't have a clue. Unless I know the person and trust his ability and judgement, the last thing I'll do is blindly break one way or another just because he said so. Especially true if I get a "check 6" call for the only bandit in the area and the schmuck giving that check can't tell that the bandit is on my 12 and about to be vaporized.
Back to the main topic, I agree that better vox discipline is needed. It shouldn't take a paragraph of verbal diarrhea to let someone know something...especialy in the thick of battle.
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I see lute's point, and for the experience player its a valid one.
By the same token, if you have a bogey on you, and someone tells you to break right, and you go left, chances are you just screwed up the guy coming to help you. If he gives you a direction, figure that going that way will improve his chances of helping.
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I think the point of Lute's comment was the average schmuck flying around probably doesn't have a clue. Unless I know the person and trust his ability and judgement, the last thing I'll do is blindly break one way or another just because he said so. Especially true if I get a "check 6" call for the only bandit in the area and the schmuck giving that check can't tell that the bandit is on my 12 and about to be vaporized.
Back to the main topic, I agree that better vox discipline is needed. It shouldn't take a paragraph of verbal diarrhea to let someone know something...especialy in the thick of battle.
Two points
1. Lute was referring to the sender not the receiver. He stated he doesn't give a direction out of concern for being in error. It is always the choice of the receiver to act upon the information given. If you send someone a specific break call i.e. "break right" the recipient has three choices. Break Right, Break some other direction or ignore it. That doesn't mean you can't offer the information if you are reasonably certain of the situation.
2. A break in the wrong direction is always better than no break at all.
Like I always tell my guys in training, I will never criticize someone's break call even if they call break on a bandit I have squarely in my gunsights. Its my choice whether or not I follow the break call and ultimately my responsibility for my own virtual life.
Conversely, not calling break out of fear of getting it wrong is a cardinal sin in my book.
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I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.
Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.
I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.
I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.
i.e.
"(pilot name) high 109 long six"
I've actually been on the receiving end of this scenario.
Flying with a few squaddies over vox and somebody yells out "Break right!" All of a sudden I see all of the squaddies on vox break right. :D
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I see lute's point, and for the experience player its a valid one.
By the same token, if you have a bogey on you, and someone tells you to break right, and you go left, chances are you just screwed up the guy coming to help you. If he gives you a direction, figure that going that way will improve his chances of helping.
I get this too much. Especially if I've got too much E, and I tell a guy to keep him straight (he's not a threat to the friendly YET, and I'm closing fast), and as soon as I get within D600 (the enemy is still a good distance from the friendly) the friendly breaks hard left or right and leaves me with no choice but to pull up and reset.
I like to give as much info as possible, like Lute said, name, plane, how far back he is. If I can't do that even name and plane sometimes suffice.
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I usually say something like "If you break left...I can make MANY bullets whiz past him"
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Lots of good posts here and it seems that a lot of people are in favor of more meaningful communication.
It only takes a little bit of thought and it pays off big time.
I was noticing this weekend a trend that I find alarming. I was flying into a obvious hot spot (you could see dots on the dar) and NO ONE was talking. This is kind of the inverse of excessive chattiness.
This is also a great place to just start giving check sixes and showing an awareness of the airspace via VOX. I often find that when people start doing that the useful chatter kicks in. In my squad, when we enter a fight with other allies around we shift from squad vox to range so that everyone benefits from the communication.
Do you you guys have any favorite techniques for getting that going?
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I still don't use VOX cause English isn't my native language, so my speaking skills aren't good. This way I'm kinda affraid bothering the others with my terrible accent and my limited vocabulary. So, what do you think? Should I try using VOX ou just keep my mouth shut? :lol
I really want to try but I am not really confident doing that.
Opinions please!
Thanks
JrRush64
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I still don't use VOX cause English isn't my native language, so my speaking skills aren't good. This way I'm kinda affraid bothering the others with my terrible accent and my limited vocabulary. So, what do you think? Should I try using VOX ou just keep my mouth shut? :lol
If that's all that's keeping you from using vox: Screw it and start to talk. :old:
After all, native speakers do not hesitate to bother us with mindless non-play drivel, play-by-play reports, or high pitched voices ;)
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I still don't use VOX cause English isn't my native language, so my speaking skills aren't good. This way I'm kinda affraid bothering the others with my terrible accent and my limited vocabulary. So, what do you think? Should I try using VOX ou just keep my mouth shut? :lol
I really want to try but I am not really confident doing that.
Opinions please!
Thanks
JrRush64
I say bring it on man! I'm not at all bothered by even very strong accents and minimal English. It's probably also a good way to learn a bit more of our language too. Start slow, be short and to the point as best you can, and then as you get more comfortable, branch out.
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There are two major causes for folks going silent in a fight.
1. They don't have controls and/or keys mapped to allow vox transmit while doing the tasks associated with flying and looking around. Either they physically just can't do it because of the way it is setup or the way it is setup they have to look away from the screen to find the transmit key. With a new student in the squad I cover setup and make sure the player can do the following: Fly, select all 17 views, and talk at the same time. They had to prove it. You cannot have the same finger operate any view and the transmit button.
2. The second issue is task overload. Many people cannot concentrate fully on flying their best fight and talk at the same time. Everybody reaches task saturation at some point and talking is one of the first things to drop off. We see this in real world aviation. It is one of the first symptoms of decreasing situational awareness. If the other pilot is busy working hard and isn't answering your verbal inquiries, he is probably at task saturation and needs you to help him with his SA. If he isn't answering and he doesn't look busy, he may be dead.
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I wrote an extensive article on this very topic a few years ago for new folks...Enjoy...
Zazen's VOX Protocol Guide
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242181.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242181.0.html)
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I wrote an extensive article on this very topic a few years ago for new folks...Enjoy...
Zazen's VOX Protocol Guide
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242181.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242181.0.html)
Wow man, haven't seen or heard from you in a long while!
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Wow man, haven't seen or heard from you in a long while!
Yea, I have a 1 year old son now. Kinda eats into the ole' discretionary free-time... :old:
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Yea, I have a 1 year old son now. Kinda eats into the ole' discretionary free-time... :old:
Yeah I bet it does!
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mics are quite annoying, theirs not much to talk about or say other than a check'6, which just makes it easier for people, i hardly use a mic anymore, not my "cup of tea".
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Lots of good posts here and it seems that a lot of people are in favor of more meaningful communication.
It only takes a little bit of thought and it pays off big time.
I was noticing this weekend a trend that I find alarming. I was flying into a obvious hot spot (you could see dots on the dar) and NO ONE was talking. This is kind of the inverse of excessive chattiness.
This is also a great place to just start giving check sixes and showing an awareness of the airspace via VOX. I often find that when people start doing that the useful chatter kicks in. In my squad, when we enter a fight with other allies around we shift from squad vox to range so that everyone benefits from the communication.
Do you you guys have any favorite techniques for getting that going?
not everyone has mics. I thought you were talking about discipline on mic use ? not communication ? it really does not matter who does and who does not use a mic. its just a game, not a real time life deal, making people use a mic is not nice, I've had many people actually force me to get a mic and talk. i did finally get one, and my biggest saying is "check'6", that's pretty much all i say, you might as well just use the check-6 button.
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not everyone has mics. I thought you were talking about discipline on mic use ? not communication ? it really does not matter who does and who does not use a mic. its just a game, not a real time life deal, making people use a mic is not nice, I've had many people actually force me to get a mic and talk. i did finally get one, and my biggest saying is "check'6", that's pretty much all i say, you might as well just use the check-6 button.
He doesn't mean communicate as in BS about stuff. He means communicate as in talk about incoming threats and give checks and such. Basically when you have several people all communicating about the state of the battle, it really starts to shift your way in short order. Everyone has a much better mental image of the situation. That helps everyone's situational awareness tremendously.
Using the check button is just fine, there is just the smallest little detail about it that gets me. There is a delay from the time that you hit the button to the time that the message gets sent and shows up. Sometimes it's a second or so. That time can get you killed sometimes. A vox check6 is much quicker.
If you don't like to talk and use vox, that's totally all right man. Of course you don't have to. It's just helpful in fights when more people do.
Personally, when I'm outside of a fight area, I like to BS with people some, but once the bad guys show up, all that stops. To each his own however.
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Using the check button is just fine, there is just the smallest little detail about it that gets me. There is a delay from the time that you hit the button to the time that the message gets sent and shows up. Sometimes it's a second or so. That time can get you killed sometimes. A vox check6 is much quicker.
A vox check can have the same kind of delay before it reaches the other guy.
I absolutely prefer the check 6, it's not only quick, but it's sure the pilot really "gets it". Warnings over vox can come garbled, too low in volume and so on.
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A vox check can have the same kind of delay before it reaches the other guy.
I absolutely prefer the check 6, it's not only quick, but it's sure the pilot really "gets it". Warnings over vox can come garbled, too low in volume and so on.
Yes, there can be a delay in both; I agree. For example, my son plays the game too (same squad), and we have our computers in the same room. I often hear him give a vox check to someone only to hear it in my headphones up to a second later (sometimes even a tad later).
That said, I use both the mapped ck6 key and/or vox check, depending on the situation. Sometimes you just shift your view in time to see a guy about to get in trouble, I hit the ck6 key; it's faster. Sometimes, if you've got a little more time, you do the key check, but can also give a guy just a bit more info, (e.g.," madda, 109, long six...") on vox. It's all circumstance-based in my case.
FWIW,
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theirs nothing wrong with mics, and theirs nothing wrong with the check'6 button...
I'm just saying theirs no need to make people use mics if they don't want to, some people might be having a bad day, and a person who starts shouting out loud check'6s !! is not really cool, people just want to enjoy fighting we some peace at times, it would be insane to have mic chat and mic checks all the time anyway, I'd get annoyed if such a thing would happen.
You might as well just use a vox with your squad buds if you need good communication.
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theirs nothing wrong with mics, and theirs nothing wrong with the check'6 button...
I'm just saying theirs no need to make people use mics if they don't want to, some people might be having a bad day, and a person who starts shouting out loud check'6s !! is not really cool, people just want to enjoy fighting we some peace at times, it would be insane to have mic chat and mic checks all the time anyway, I'd get annoyed if such a thing would happen.
You might as well just use a vox with your squad buds if you need good communication.
up until your posts to this thread, everyone else was posting to offer help, Buck..... not one single person here in this thread has made a post requiring or even demanding for "everyone" to use a mic or to use the "check 6" feature.....
sorry to hear that you got in with a squad or group that demanded you to have a mic, I am appalled at that very thought...... hope you did not join them or stay with them for a reason like that.....
but no reason either, to ridicule the meaning & posts of this helpful topic either......
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up until your posts to this thread, everyone else was posting to offer help, Buck..... not one single person here in this thread has made a post requiring or even demanding for "everyone" to use a mic or to use the "check 6" feature.....
sorry to hear that you got in with a squad or group that demanded you to have a mic, I am appalled at that very thought...... hope you did not join them or stay with them for a reason like that.....
but no reason either, to ridicule the meaning & posts of this helpful topic either......
Why would you be "appalled" at the thought of a squad requiring that it members to have vox capabilities? Not trying to start something, just curious why such a little thing would be so significant that one would have to be appalled at the thought of it.
Fred
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Why would you be "appalled" at the thought of a squad requiring that it members to have vox capabilities? Not trying to start something, just curious why such a little thing would be so significant that one would have to be appalled at the thought of it.
Fred
for it tells me that he was required to have to spend money to be in a squad, if he did not have a mic, or might even not have money to splurge for something that is not required to play this game.....
text has surficed for 20+ years....... not everyone is wealthy to go spend money that might be required to do... to join a squad...
so let me change that word "appalled" to "shocked" if that suits ya...... same difference
if it is not "required" by the game, then I see no reason for a "squad" to make demands like that......
but then again, that is my own personal view, not a view of HTC or the AH Training Staff..to be perfectly clear on the matter....
I stand by my post
edit: just to add, their are some people who play this game and are deaf, another reason for me to be shocked at the thought that some squads demand their members to have a "mic"......
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for it tells me that he was required to have to spend money to be in a squad, if he did not have a mic, or might even not have money to splurge for something that is not required to play this game.....
text has surficed for 20+ years....... not everyone is wealthy to go spend money that might be required to do... to join a squad...
so let me change that word "appalled" to "shocked" if that suits ya...... same difference
if it is not "required" by the game, then I see no reason for a "squad" to make demands like that......
but then again, that is my own personal view, not a view of HTC or the AH Training Staff..to be perfectly clear on the matter....
I stand by my post
edit: just to add, their are some people who play this game and are deaf, another reason for me to be shocked at the thought that some squads demand their members to have a "mic"......
You don't have to change any words for me. I was just simply curious.
Fred
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Just to be clear, this isn't about requiring anyone to do anything but as Madda says, and I find the same thing as well, that when people start talking and checking each other, the bad guys get cleaned up pretty quick.
That would make this a "good thing" to promote, not require. Even if you don't have a mic, you can benefit from the information that is flowing around.
The delay is a bit that we don't often figure on, because when you are just playing alone, you don't notice it. Like Wraithe, my son often plays next to me and we have seen delays of up to 3-4 seconds on messages. That makes the useful chatter even more valuable since presumably all friendly players would have a better idea of bogies in the environment and could be on guard.
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Never mind :(